From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 1 16:49:03 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10445 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:49:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA14266 for pdftex-list; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:16:54 -0500 Received: from mgate.uni-hannover.de (root@mgate.uni-hannover.de [130.75.2.3]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14263 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:16:53 -0500 Received: from gauss.informatik.uni-hannover.de (actually h43.ts1.uni-hannover.de) by mgate.uni-hannover.de with LocalSMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:16:41 +0100 Received: (from te@localhost) by gauss.informatik.uni-hannover.de (8.8.5/8.6.12) id AAA05292 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:15:05 +0100 Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:15:05 +0100 From: Thomas Esser Message-Id: <199811012315.AAA05292@gauss.informatik.uni-hannover.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: prototypes in 0.12q Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Rafael R. Pappalardo has reported problem compiling on HP-UX 10.20 (with aCC, I think). The problem are conflicting prototypes for sharedsrc and fmlookup in libpdftex.h and pdftex.h. And is is libpdftex.h itself which loads pdftex.h (via webmacros.h -> pdftexd.h -> texmfmp.h -> pdftex.h). Since arguments and return type of these functions are some integer type, I wonder if we just can omit the incomplete declarations in pdftex.h. Thomas From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 1 17:13:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10905 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 17:13:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA14354 for pdftex-list; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:47:58 -0500 Received: from regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (te@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de [130.75.26.7]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14351 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 18:47:56 -0500 Received: (from te@localhost) by regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id AAA07996; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:47:47 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:47:47 +0100 (MET) From: Thomas Esser Message-Id: <199811012347.AAA07996@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de> To: popineau@ese-metz.fr Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: prototypes in 0.12q Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Fabrice wrote: > I had this problem under win32... but it seems to have disappeared with > 0.12q (latest released , as Thanh sent me pre versions). Could it be the > order in include path ? Yes, maybe. In fact, the problem happened with an older pdftex release. I can't check 0.12q on HP 10.20 now, but as soon as we have the next teTeX prerelease with 0.12q included, there are some people on the tetex-pretest list who will check that. Thanks for that hint. Thomas From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 03:16:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22443 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:16:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA15186 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 04:46:05 -0500 Received: from sumh1.rdg.ac.uk (IDENT:pp@sumh1.rdg.ac.uk [134.225.16.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA15183 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 04:46:03 -0500 Received: from stsscsc1.rucsc (actually host stpc163) by sumh1.rdg.ac.uk; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:09:11 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981102090710.007dde00@pophost.rdg.ac.uk> X-Sender: stssjs@pophost.rdg.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 09:07:10 +0000 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Steve Sangwine Subject: Problem: PDFTeX + LaTeX drawing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk [Also posted to MiKTeX chat at miktex@dsts.dk on 10/30/98] I have found a problem with PDFTeX. A document containing the following LaTeX picture command causes a fatal error as shown below. When this command is commented out the problem goes. \put(14,5){\circle{2}} >This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12l (MiKTeX 1.11) >......... >(see the transcript file for additional information) > > >Error: pdftex (file lcircle10): >error while unpacking; more bits than required >C:\texmf\miktex\bin\pdftex.exe: No error Can anyone explain what is wrong, or better, suggest a workaround or fix? Regards, Steve Sangwine. ----------------- Dr S. J. Sangwine Electronic Engineering Group School of Computer Science, Cybernetics, and Electronic Engineering The University of Reading Whiteknights, Reading RG6 6AY, UK Email: S.J.Sangwine@Reading.ac.uk Tel: 0118 931 8584 (+44 118 931 8584 outside UK) Fax: 0118 931 8583 Web: http://www.elec.rdg.ac.uk/sjs.html PGP: Public key available from key servers. PGP/MIME OK. E15C 974C 09CE E5AD 8E44 6A40 4186 115F 56B1 90ED From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 05:31:12 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA24643 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:31:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA15514 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:46:04 -0500 Received: from cc.vsu.ru (root@ns.vsu.relarn.ru [194.226.24.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA15511 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:45:30 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cc.vsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with UUCP id OAA26227 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:44:01 +0300 Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08020; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:43:18 +0300 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map From: Vladimir Volovich Date: 02 Nov 1998 14:43:17 +0300 Message-ID: Lines: 7 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070036 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.36) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, the file pdftex/base/cm.map from pdftexlib-0.12 contains incorrect value of encoding file for cmr5.pfb: cmtextf.enc instead of cmtext.enc. Please, correct this in the distributions. Best regards, -- Vladimir. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 05:40:40 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA24807 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:40:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA15491 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:37:46 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA15488 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:37:42 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04340; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:37:32 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA20451; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:37:29 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811021137.MAA20451@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: Problem: PDFTeX + LaTeX drawing In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981102090710.007dde00@pophost.rdg.ac.uk> from Steve Sangwine at "Nov 2, 98 09:07:10 am" To: S.J.Sangwine@reading.ac.uk (Steve Sangwine) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:37:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > [Also posted to MiKTeX chat at miktex@dsts.dk > on 10/30/98] > > I have found a problem with PDFTeX. A document > containing the following LaTeX picture command > causes a fatal error as shown below. When this > command is commented out the problem goes. > > \put(14,5){\circle{2}} > > >This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12l (MiKTeX 1.11) > >......... > >(see the transcript file for additional information) > > > > > >Error: pdftex (file lcircle10): > >error while unpacking; more bits than required > >C:\texmf\miktex\bin\pdftex.exe: No error > > Can anyone explain what is wrong, or better, suggest a > workaround or fix? seems that the map file for font lcircle10 is not used, so pdftx tries to use PK font instead. There might be a bug in PK font reading in your version 0.12l. Suggestion: 1) check map files (in pdftex.cfg) to add lcircle10 and 2) update your binary (sorry, I don't know how to do it with MikTeX) Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 05:51:29 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA25011 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:51:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA15591 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:03:45 -0500 Received: from cc.vsu.ru (root@ns.vsu.relarn.ru [194.226.24.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA15587 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:03:02 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cc.vsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with UUCP id PAA26330 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:00:28 +0300 Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08357; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:59:42 +0300 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: cm.map: oops From: Vladimir Volovich Date: 02 Nov 1998 14:59:42 +0300 Message-ID: Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070036 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.36) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, sorry for my prev. mail, --- it seems that i was wrong. The font cmr5 strangely seems to have encoding different from other cmr* fonts: cmr6, cmr7, cmr8, etc. %-) Best regards, -- Vladimir. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 06:14:18 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA25481 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:14:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA15716 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:22:57 -0500 Received: from sumh1.rdg.ac.uk (IDENT:pp@sumh1.rdg.ac.uk [134.225.16.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA15713 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:22:54 -0500 Received: from stsscsc1.rucsc (actually host stpc163) by sumh1.rdg.ac.uk; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:19:05 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981102121703.00880e40@pophost.rdg.ac.uk> X-Sender: stssjs@pophost.rdg.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 12:17:03 +0000 To: Han The Thanh From: Steve Sangwine Subject: Problem: PDFTeX + LaTeX drawing Cc: pdftex@tug.org, miktex@dsts.dk In-Reply-To: <199811021137.MAA20451@anxur.fi.muni.cz> References: <3.0.5.32.19981102090710.007dde00@pophost.rdg.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk At 12:37 PM 11/2/98 +0100, Han The Thanh wrote: [in response to a posting about problems with PDFTeX and LaTeX drawing fonts in MiKTeX 1.11] >seems that the map file for font lcircle10 is not used, >so pdftx tries to use PK font instead. There might be >a bug in PK font reading in your version 0.12l. > >Suggestion: > >1) check map files (in pdftex.cfg) to add lcircle10 > >and > >2) update your binary (sorry, I don't know how to do it with MikTeX) > >Thanh Indeed the problem is with the map files. I had to edit pdftex.cfg to uncomment the line logo.map and also edit the file logo.map itself so that the last 2 lines read: lcircle10 lcircle10 ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:36:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA16002 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:54:51 -0500 Received: from zinho003.detewe.de (zinho003.detewe.de [194.115.52.3]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA15999 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:54:47 -0500 Received: from zinho003.detewe.de by zinho003.detewe.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA17881; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:46:50 +0100 Received: from ctbse153 by zinho004.detewe.de (8.6.10/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA02000 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:43:14 +0100 Received: from CTBPC085 by ctbse153 (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA19715; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:54:25 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) Subject: Re: Problem: PDFTeX + LaTeX drawing References: <199811021137.MAA20451@anxur.fi.muni.cz> From: Christian Schenk Date: 02 Nov 1998 13:56:36 +0100 In-Reply-To: Han The Thanh's message of "Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:37:29 +0100 (MET)" Message-ID: Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh writes: > seems that the map file for font lcircle10 is not used, so pdftx tries to use PK > font instead. There might be a bug in PK font reading in your version 0.12l. > > Suggestion: > > 1) check map files (in pdftex.cfg) to add lcircle10 > > and > > 2) update your binary (sorry, I don't know how to do it with MikTeX) MiKTeX pdfTeX 0.12p binaries are available on the MiKTeX download page: http://www.snafu.de/~cschenk/miktex/downloads.html (0.12q binaries will be available soon) -Christian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 06:42:49 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26024 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:42:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA16108 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:03:01 -0500 Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA16104 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:02:58 -0500 Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA22750; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:02:40 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA07474; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:02:48 +0100 Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:02:48 +0100 Message-Id: <199811021302.OAA07474@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: (message from Vladimir Volovich on 02 Nov 1998 14:43:17 +0300) Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > the file pdftex/base/cm.map from pdftexlib-0.12 contains incorrect > value of encoding file for cmr5.pfb: cmtextf.enc instead of > cmtext.enc. Please, correct this in the distributions. Better yet, forget about all the *.enc files for the CM/AMS fonts in Type 1 format. If you use those fonts in their original encoding and don't play around with reencoding, there is absolutely no need to specifiy an encoding file in current versions of pdfTeX, and if you them leave them out, you reduce the chance of introducing bugs. Cheers, Ulrik. P.S. My personal pdftex/bluesky.map file simly looks like this. cmr5 CMR5 ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:50:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA16172 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:09:56 -0500 Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA16169 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:09:54 -0500 Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA22782; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:09:44 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA07481; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:09:52 +0100 Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:09:52 +0100 Message-Id: <199811021309.OAA07481@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: (message from Vladimir Volovich on 02 Nov 1998 14:59:42 +0300) Subject: Re: cm.map: oops From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > sorry for my prev. mail, --- it seems that i was wrong. > The font cmr5 strangely seems to have encoding different from other > cmr* fonts: cmr6, cmr7, cmr8, etc. %-) Yes, that's true. You may call it a design bug, but Don Knuth obviously conssiders it as feature. Here's the explanation given by Barbara Beeton on tex-implementors some time ago. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >From bnb@ams.org Mon Jul 20 14:48 MET 1998 Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:48:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Barbara Beeton Subject: Re: ligatures in cmr5 (was note from Don Knuth (fwd)) ulrik asks why cmr5 uses a different encoding than other cmr fonts with respect to ligatures. i'm pretty sure it isn't a bug. i'm pretty sure it has to do with the relatively wider-than-high settings of the cmr5 parameters, with the result that the distance between the two stems of, say, the "fi" ligature are rather less than the normal interletter spacing between the separate letters "f i", with the result that the ligature will look out of place in a word similarly to the way that the separate letters "f i" look ungraceful in the same word with cmr10. okay. here's what some searching in my own archives has uncovered. this was in a collection of knuth's responses to questions raised in texhax. -------------------- Date: 09 Jul 88 2345 PDT From: Don Knuth To: BB@SAIL.Stanford.EDU Subject: sundry matters for a saturday This is going to be a rather long letter, as I've just spent more than 16 hours (during 2.5 days) reading more than 100 issues of TeXhax! I have mountains of other mail to read next, so I thought it would be best just to write you a note containing all the things that struck me as was doing this exercise, instead of trying to send lots of little messages to people whose email addresses are inscrutable to me. [...] -------- 88.21 and 87.89 I intentionally omitted ligatures from cmr5 because this font is so extended and letterspaced the results look better without. The f-ligatures are put in fots only when combinations like "fi" look wrong due to interference of bulbs (or, in sans-serif fonts, when the characters are too dark in conjunction), not because there's a `fi' character in our language! In 6-point type a ligature fi looks better than the two characters f and i; in 5-point type it doesn't. (See the `magnified five-point type' example on page A16 for two fi non-ligatures! I believe the first edition had ligatures in this example, and I decided to drop them after looking closer at it.) -------------------- so, it's a feature, not a bug. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 07:16:03 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26656 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:16:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA16565 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:42:10 -0500 Received: from esemetz.ese-metz.fr (root@esemetz.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.212]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA16561; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:42:07 -0500 Received: from NEUROMANCER.ese-metz.fr (neuromancer.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.95]) by esemetz.ese-metz.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA32082; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:42:01 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org, fptex@tug.org Subject: pdftex 0.12q win32 Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Fabrice POPINEAU Date: 02 Nov 1998 14:43:02 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 8 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.44/XEmacs 21.0 - "Poitou" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Web2c version is available from ftp://ftp.ese-metz.fr/pub/TeX/win32/pdftex-0.12q-win32.zip This is mirrored on any ctan site in systems/win32/web2c . Fabrice Popineau From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 08:20:29 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28113 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:20:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA17193 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:35:27 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17190 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:35:25 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29050; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:35:23 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA04815; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:35:23 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811021435.PAA04815@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map In-Reply-To: <199811021302.OAA07474@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> from Ulrik Vieth at "Nov 2, 98 02:02:48 pm" To: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (Ulrik Vieth) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:35:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > > Hi, > > the file pdftex/base/cm.map from pdftexlib-0.12 contains incorrect > > value of encoding file for cmr5.pfb: cmtextf.enc instead of > > cmtext.enc. Please, correct this in the distributions. > > Better yet, forget about all the *.enc files for the CM/AMS fonts in > Type 1 format. If you use those fonts in their original encoding > and don't play around with reencoding, there is absolutely no need > to specifiy an encoding file in current versions of pdfTeX, and if > you them leave them out, you reduce the chance of introducing bugs. yes, in fact if a font has correct builtin encoding already, giving an external encoding vector may cause problem > P.S. My personal pdftex/bluesky.map file simly looks like this. > > cmr5 CMR5 cmr6 CMR6 cmr7 CMR7 cmr8 CMR8 cmr9 CMR9 cmr10 CMR10 cmr12 CMR12 cmr17 CMR17 ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:52:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17381 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:01:40 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17378 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:01:38 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats (toucan.stats [163.1.20.20]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA00819; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:58:53 GMT Message-Id: <199811021458.OAA00819@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:58:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian Ripley Reply-To: Prof Brian Ripley Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map To: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de, thanh@informatics.muni.cz Cc: pdftex@tug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: 6URLHKfS1vYVSEB78J7T0w== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > From: Han The Thanh > To: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (Ulrik Vieth) > > > P.S. My personal pdftex/bluesky.map file simly looks like this. > > > > cmr5 CMR5 > cmr6 CMR6 > cmr7 CMR7 > cmr8 CMR8 > cmr9 CMR9 > cmr10 CMR10 > cmr12 CMR12 > cmr17 CMR17 > it may be still reduced by saying ie > > cmr10 ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:09:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17594 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:34:59 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17591 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:34:57 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id PAA24668; hop 0; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:27:01 GMT Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:34:49 +0000 Received: from lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.7]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16094; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:34:41 GMT Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA03160; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:34:45 GMT Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:34:45 GMT Message-Id: <199811021534.PAA03160@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> From: Sebastian Rahtz To: ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Cc: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de, thanh@informatics.muni.cz, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map In-Reply-To: <199811021458.OAA00819@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> References: <199811021458.OAA00819@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Brian Ripley writes: > And it looks as if tetex has settled on the name bsr.map for what > Ulrik calls pdftex/bluesky.map and Fabrice has as pdftex/base/cm.map. > Any chance of some agreement here? I am reluctant to use "bluesky" or "bsr", because I think it is historically incorrect. these are not the same fonts as the original Blue Sky, since they were enhanced by Y&Y. you now have to add Taco Hoekwater's fonts into the soup (his replacements for logo*pfb) and "bakomaextra" is an unnecessarily long name.... sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 11:22:33 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02879 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:22:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA18148 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:43:47 -0500 Received: from wanadoo.fr (root@smtp-out-2.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.69]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18145 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:43:45 -0500 Received: from aralia.wanadoo.fr [193.252.19.42] by wanadoo.fr for Paris Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:42:08 +0100 (MET) Received: from tour3-199.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.170.199] by smtp.wanadoo.fr for Paris Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:42:07 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811021742.SAA21614@wanadoo.fr> Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map Date: Mon, 2 Nov 98 18:48:54 +0100 x-sender: Michel.Bovani@pop.wanadoo.fr x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0Fv1 , 3 juillet 1997 From: Michel Bovani To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Le 2/11/98 15:58, Prof Brian Ripley wrote : >And, I've been wondering, are any of those .enc files pdftex/base actually >_needed_ any more? I think that if you want your pdf files to be printed on a mac, you _actually_ need enc specs. in map files (almost with pdftex <= 0.2 o-6) -- Michel Bovani From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 11:29:49 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03098 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:29:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA18159 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:44:35 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken76.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA18150; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:44:14 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.152]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA09395; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:44:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363DF083.F79558D5@apl.washington.edu> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 09:48:51 -0800 From: Jody Klymak X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: pdftex@tug.org, fptex@tug.org Subject: FAQ request.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I see that I have not released a FAQ in over a month! Well, thats actually because I have not received any new question or answers. Stuff that really needs work in the FAQ: How do I install for: FPTeX?, MikTeX?, UNIX machines? Anything Font oriented (though perhaps a pointer to the manual is adequate) Detailing the problems translating epstopdf (I don't have any, but many other people seem to especially when fonts are included). Anything else that you keep seeing on the newsgroups or this list that could stand a little extra documentation. Cheers, Jody jklymak@apl.washington.edu From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 12:07:54 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04096 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:07:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA18483 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:29:30 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA18480 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:29:28 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21272; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:29:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA20243; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:29:25 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811021829.TAA20243@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map In-Reply-To: <199811021742.SAA21614@wanadoo.fr> from Michel Bovani at "Nov 2, 98 06:48:54 pm" To: michel.bovani@wanadoo.fr (Michel Bovani) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:29:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Le 2/11/98 15:58, Prof Brian Ripley wrote : > > >And, I've been wondering, are any of those .enc files pdftex/base actually > >_needed_ any more? > > I think that if you want your pdf files to be printed on a mac, you > _actually_ > need enc specs. in map files (almost with pdftex <= 0.2 o-6) yes it's right, as there was a bug in reading builtin encoding vector of T1 fonts. It's been fixed from 0.12p Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 12:24:23 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04566 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:24:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA18669 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:53:31 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA18666 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:53:28 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22370 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:53:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA21204 for pdftex@tug.cs.umb.edu; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:53:26 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811021853.TAA21204@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: TTF + Acrobat Reader To: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:53:26 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, does anyone have *any* contact with someone who knows why Acrobat Reader sometimes displays some characters in TTF as boxes. I really need help on that. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 13:08:01 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05708 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:06:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA18946 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:28:54 -0500 Received: from regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (te@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de [130.75.26.7]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18943 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:28:50 -0500 Received: (from te@localhost) by regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id UAA12934; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:28:43 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:28:43 +0100 (MET) From: Thomas Esser Message-Id: <199811021928.UAA12934@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de> To: ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk, s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org, thanh@informatics.muni.cz, vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I am reluctant to use "bluesky" or "bsr", because I think it is > historically incorrect. these are not the same fonts as the original > Blue Sky, since they were enhanced by Y&Y. > > you now have to add Taco Hoekwater's fonts into the soup (his > replacements for logo*pfb) > > and "bakomaextra" is an unnecessarily long name.... Ok, ok, ... We should come to some kind of agreement, I think. Basically, I think to have the right approach to use small "modules" for map files. And I do have the entries for Taco's fonts, too. All my map files are in dvips/config and there is a script called updmap that creates a psfonts.map from the "modules". That way, I only need to maintain the modules. The list of map modules is: acrobat.map acrobat_kb.map acrobat_urw.map bakomaextra.map bsr-missing-interpolated.map bsr.map charter.map hoekwater.map lucidabr.map lw35extra.map lw35extra_kb.map lw35extra_urw.map marvosym.map mathtime.map omega.map utopia.map xypic.map acrobat* have the basic acrobat fonts (the variants are for different naming of the pfb files: kb is Berry names, urw is URW names such as in ghostscript, the third variant indicated build-in fonts). lw35extra* completes the acrobat* maps to the full set of 35 standard LW fonts bsr has the AMS/BSR/Y&Y fonts bsr-missing-interpolated complements bsr to the full set of AMS fonts by using the closest available size for the missing entries bakomaextra adds those fonts that are in bakoma \setminus bsr all the others are quite obvious... In teTeX, pdftex defults to have acrobat.map lw35extra_kb.map bsr.map bsr-missing-interpolated.map hoekwater.map charter.map lucidabr.map marvosym.map mathtime.map omega.map utopia.map xypic.map whereas dvips (and psfonts.map) only default to have: acrobat.map lw35extra.map charter.map lucidabr.map marvosym.map mathtime.map omega.map utopia.map xypic.map > > And it looks as if tetex has settled on the name bsr.map for what > > Ulrik calls pdftex/bluesky.map and Fabrice has as pdftex/base/cm.map. > > Any chance of some agreement here? If we agree on better (shorter) names, I'll change them in teTeX. Thanh is welcome to use these map "modules", too... Thomas From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 13:30:04 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06290 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:29:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA19111 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:55:17 -0500 Received: from cc.vsu.ru (root@ns.vsu.relarn.ru [194.226.24.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA19108 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:55:06 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by cc.vsu.ru (8.9.1/8.9.1) with UUCP id WAA29870 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:52:35 +0300 Received: (from vvv@localhost) by vvv.vsu.ru (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA26731; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:51:57 +0300 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map References: <199811021829.TAA20243@anxur.fi.muni.cz> From: Vladimir Volovich Date: 02 Nov 1998 22:51:56 +0300 In-Reply-To: Han The Thanh's message of "Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:29:25 +0100 (MET)" Message-ID: Lines: 16 User-Agent: Gnus/5.070036 (Pterodactyl Gnus v0.36) Emacs/20.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk "HTT" == Han The Thanh writes: HTT> yes it's right, as there was a bug in reading builtin encoding HTT> vector of T1 fonts. It's been fixed from 0.12p So, will you remove enc files from (at least) cm.map? :-) BTW, it seems that i just found a really existing typo this time: :-) the font cmitt10 in cm.map has encoding "cmittext.enc", but the latter file contains /dollar but not /sterling, as it should be, and as a result, the sterling sign is messed from that font when it is preloaded by pdftex. Removing unnecessary enc file references from map files will solve the root of such problems. Best regards, -- Vladimir. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 14:26:43 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07972 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:26:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19425 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:55:29 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA19422 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:55:27 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA00307; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:55:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA26182; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:55:25 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811022055.VAA26182@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: typo in pdftex/base/cm.map In-Reply-To: from Vladimir Volovich at "Nov 2, 98 10:51:56 pm" To: vvv@vvv.vsu.ru (Vladimir Volovich) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:55:25 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > "HTT" == Han The Thanh writes: > > HTT> yes it's right, as there was a bug in reading builtin encoding > HTT> vector of T1 fonts. It's been fixed from 0.12p > > So, will you remove enc files from (at least) cm.map? :-) > > BTW, it seems that i just found a really existing typo this time: :-) > > the font cmitt10 in cm.map has encoding "cmittext.enc", but the latter > file contains /dollar but not /sterling, as it should be, and as a > result, the sterling sign is messed from that font when it is > preloaded by pdftex. Removing unnecessary enc file references from map > files will solve the root of such problems. I am considering to update pdftexlib-0.12.zip. As Thomas is working on map files stuff, we can make a cleaning up in this mess. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 14:38:13 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08247 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:37:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA19457 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:02:55 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19454 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:02:53 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00748 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:02:52 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA26399 for pdftex@tug.cs.umb.edu; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:02:51 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811022102.WAA26399@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: TTF again To: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:02:51 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, As far as I can see from experiments, TTF rendering in AcroReader is strongly platform-dependent, which is a bad news. While it works well on UNIX, on Win32 it seems that AcroReader just uses Windows' rendering mechanism and in this case that is the worst what could happen. So when use TTF fonts with pdftex, expect that your PDF may be no longer portable. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 2 15:27:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA09581 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:27:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA19766 for pdftex-list; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:53:31 -0500 Received: from esemetz.ese-metz.fr (root@esemetz.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.212]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19755; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:53:24 -0500 Received: from hal9000 (ppp3.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.223]) by esemetz.ese-metz.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA18864; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:53:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001101be06aa$e6e3d350$dfe030c1@hal9000.ese-metz.fr> From: "Fabrice Popineau" To: , Subject: 0.12q win32 binaries Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:51:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE06B3.47C30B70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE06B3.47C30B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I *may* have messed up the 0.12q zip file. I can't download it by modem = just to check (just one report of things going wrong). I have generated = a new clean 0.12q version which I'm uploading to : ftp://ftp.ese-metz.fr/pub/TeX/win32/pdftex-0.12q1-win32.zip I apologize for the inconvenience. These are statically linked binaries. That means : huge. But this is the = only way to have standalone programs, and not to take the risk of dll = incompatibilities. By the way : the mktex* programs have been upgraded to the latest teTeX = version and should support lh/wn font files, ttf2pk and such. Fabrice ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE06B3.47C30B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I *may* have messed up the 0.12q zip file. I can't = download it=20 by modem just to check (just one report of things going wrong). I have = generated=20 a new clean 0.12q version which I'm uploading to :
 
ftp:= //ftp.ese-metz.fr/pub/TeX/win32/pdftex-0.12q1-win32.zip
 
I apologize for the inconvenience.
 
These are statically linked binaries. That means : = huge. But=20 this is the only way to have standalone programs, and not to take the = risk of=20 dll incompatibilities.
 
By the way : the mktex* programs = have been=20 upgraded to the latest teTeX version and should support lh/wn font = files, ttf2pk=20 and such.
 
Fabrice
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BE06B3.47C30B70-- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 3 02:50:05 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA24613 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 02:50:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA20567 for pdftex-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:01:42 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA20564 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:01:41 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.160]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA60D1; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:00:56 +0100 Message-ID: <363EC0E8.367F0834@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:38:00 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh CC: PDFTEX Subject: Re: TTF again References: <199811022102.WAA26399@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh wrote: > As far as I can see from experiments, TTF rendering in AcroReader is strongly > platform-dependent, which is a bad news. While it works well on UNIX, on Win32 > it seems that AcroReader just uses Windows' rendering mechanism and in this > case that is the worst what could happen. So when use TTF fonts with pdftex, > expect that your PDF may be no longer portable. I recently experienced problems under W95 where ATM and the Windows font (mis)manager disagreed on what font to use, and I ended up with e.g. ttf symbols instead of pfb's. I found out that one potential conflict lays in the mere fact that some ttf font names are the same as adobes (like the symbol ones). Remedy: delete the ttf's. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 3 06:15:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA28166 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:15:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA20948 for pdftex-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:28:18 -0500 Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA20945 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:28:17 -0500 Received: from aa056@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <34944-12276>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:28:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:28:32 -0400 (AST) From: George White To: Hans Hagen cc: Han The Thanh , PDFTEX Subject: Re: TTF again In-Reply-To: <363EC0E8.367F0834@wxs.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Hans Hagen wrote: > Han The Thanh wrote: > > > As far as I can see from experiments, TTF rendering in AcroReader is strongly > > platform-dependent, which is a bad news. While it works well on UNIX, on Win32 > > it seems that AcroReader just uses Windows' rendering mechanism and in this > > case that is the worst what could happen. So when use TTF fonts with pdftex, > > expect that your PDF may be no longer portable. > > I recently experienced problems under W95 where ATM and the Windows font > (mis)manager disagreed on what font to use, and I ended up with e.g. ttf > symbols instead of pfb's. I found out that one potential conflict lays > in the mere fact that some ttf font names are the same as adobes (like > the symbol ones). Remedy: delete the ttf's. Since many Win95 users are required to conform to department or company "standards", deleting parts of the standard Win95 distribution isn't a good idea. I'm not sure what the "right" approach is, but we need to provide some more helpful suggestions so TeX can be installed without requiring a non-std. configuration of Win9x. At my workplace, I was ordered to remove ATM from Win95 (I complied by reformatting the Win95 partition and installing OS/2), but Acrobat Reader is considered a "standard" app, and I have to be able to create .pdf files that a) will work with reader on Win95 and b) use only the "base" fonts. Ghostscript's pdfwrite device achieves this by converting non-base type 1 fonts to outline paths, but quality suffers at screen resolutions and it is important to minimize the total number of glyphs from non-base fonts. In the past, I've used the original names (e.g., StandardSymL for Symbol) of the URW fonts (as supplied with Aladdin ghostscript) to work around name conflicts. Since it appears that Win95 font support is not what one would like, the best thing might be to carefully explain the tradeoffs and options in the FAQ so people will a) choose the best compromise for their situation and b) not expect too much. -- George White Halifax, Nova Scotia From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 3 06:30:55 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA28439 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:30:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA21010 for pdftex-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:47:44 -0500 Received: from relay2.surfnet.nl (relay2.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.5]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA21007 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:47:42 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay2.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:46:03 +0100 Received: from PC709 (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with ESMTP id <01J3QM2V3RAO004ALM@wkap.nl>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:42:56 +0100 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:42:50 +0100 (W. Europe Standard Time) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: TTF again In-reply-to: <363EC0E8.367F0834@wxs.nl> To: Hans Hagen Cc: Han The Thanh , PDFTEX Message-id: <13886.64074.650000.454658@PC709> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 References: <199811022102.WAA26399@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <363EC0E8.367F0834@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "HH" == Hans Hagen writes: HH> I recently experienced problems under W95 where ATM and the Windows font HH> (mis)manager disagreed on what font to use, and I ended up with e.g. ttf HH> symbols instead of pfb's. I found out that one potential conflict lays In this case, I think the fault is at Adobe, not Windows. ATM always uses installed fonts before looking at the subsets in the PDF, and this is a "compare by name" affair. ATM doesn't care at all about whether this is the same font in a different format, the same font but in a different encoding, or a completely different font. I used to have a collection of TrueType Computer Modern fonts installed for use with Scientific Workplace, which was perfectly OK until I received a PDF file that used the Blue Sky Type 1 fonts. I printed the document on a HP laserjet III, and it looked awful. Removing the TrueType fonts from the system was the only way to solve the problem. In my opinion, Acrobat should always use the embedded fonts (even if this results in a performance penalty because of the lack of cache) and/or at least verify that the subset and the local font use the same UniqueId. Greetings, Taco -- Taco Hoekwater taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl Kluwer Academic Publishers -- Pre Press -- Achterom 119, 3311 KB Dordrecht, The Netherlands tel. 31-78-6392550 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 3 07:12:07 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29242 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:12:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA21214 for pdftex-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:28:10 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA21211 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:28:08 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.11]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1E21; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:27:36 +0100 Message-ID: <363F04C7.DC82AC0@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:27:35 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater CC: Han The Thanh , PDFTEX Subject: Re: TTF again References: <199811022102.WAA26399@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <363EC0E8.367F0834@wxs.nl> <13886.64074.650000.454658@PC709> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > In my opinion, Acrobat should always use the embedded fonts (even if > this results in a performance penalty because of the lack of cache) > and/or at least verify that the subset and the local font use the same > UniqueId. Right. Random prefixing helps, and therefore partial embedding solves this problem. I only wonder (and cannot check this), does Acrobat Reader still uses the OS to find fonts even now ATM is built in? Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 3 07:13:40 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA29279 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:13:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA21207 for pdftex-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:27:57 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA21204 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:27:56 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.11]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4C03; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:27:28 +0100 Message-ID: <363F03DD.ADBB58CF@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:23:41 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George White CC: Han The Thanh , PDFTEX Subject: Re: TTF again References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Hans Hagen wrote: > > > Han The Thanh wrote: > > > > > As far as I can see from experiments, TTF rendering in AcroReader is strongly > > > platform-dependent, which is a bad news. While it works well on UNIX, on Win32 > > > it seems that AcroReader just uses Windows' rendering mechanism and in this > > > case that is the worst what could happen. So when use TTF fonts with pdftex, > > > expect that your PDF may be no longer portable. > > > > I recently experienced problems under W95 where ATM and the Windows font > > (mis)manager disagreed on what font to use, and I ended up with e.g. ttf > > symbols instead of pfb's. I found out that one potential conflict lays > > in the mere fact that some ttf font names are the same as adobes (like > > the symbol ones). Remedy: delete the ttf's. > > Since many Win95 users are required to conform to department or company > "standards", deleting parts of the standard Win95 distribution isn't a > good idea. I'm not sure what the "right" approach is, but we need to > provide some more helpful suggestions so TeX can be installed without > requiring a non-std. configuration of Win9x. Sorry fo rthe confusion. An example: Deleting symbol.ttf makes the adobe symbols visible again, otherwise some applications export curves instead of using embedded fonts. BTW, I only did this on my machine after some very frustrating hours of tracking down the problem. Concerning tex, It's not needed to change W95, only to be very careful in copying ttf files to directories where tex searches. When they come first in the search path ... > At my workplace, I was ordered to remove ATM from Win95 (I complied by > reformatting the Win95 partition and installing OS/2), but Acrobat Reader > is considered a "standard" app, and I have to be able to create .pdf files > that a) will work with reader on Win95 and b) use only the "base" fonts. > Ghostscript's pdfwrite device achieves this by converting non-base type 1 Does anybody knows when GS will include fonts? > fonts to outline paths, but quality suffers at screen resolutions and > it is important to minimize the total number of glyphs from non-base > fonts. Acrobat reader currently has ATM build in. As far as I know Distiller still needs ATM. > Since it appears that Win95 font support is not what one would like, > the best thing might be to carefully explain the tradeoffs and options > in the FAQ so people will a) choose the best compromise for their > situation and b) not expect too much. A working group of the NTG is currently working on solutions that (at least we hope) will sort out the mess. Think of font databases, validated collections, scripts to generated map etc files, etc. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 3 08:07:00 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00471 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:06:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA21567 for pdftex-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:17:46 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21563 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:17:44 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04103; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:17:39 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA10147; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:17:38 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811031417.PAA10147@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: TTF again In-Reply-To: <363F04C7.DC82AC0@wxs.nl> from Hans Hagen at "Nov 3, 98 02:27:35 pm" To: pragma@wxs.nl (Hans Hagen) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:17:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > In my opinion, Acrobat should always use the embedded fonts (even if > > this results in a performance penalty because of the lack of cache) > > and/or at least verify that the subset and the local font use the same > > UniqueId. > > Right. Random prefixing helps, and therefore partial embedding solves > this problem. I only wonder (and cannot check this), does Acrobat Reader > still uses the OS to find fonts even now ATM is built in? version 3.02 does, at least for TTF. It's incredible to see the difference between behaviour of AcroReader on different systems. ``Portable Document Format'' unfortunately can be portable while viewing by GhostScript :-( Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 3 14:24:01 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA10196 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:23:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA22280 for pdftex-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:30:59 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA22277 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:30:56 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:34:40 +0100 Received: from PC709 (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with ESMTP id <01J3QLPELJWG0057AQ@wkap.nl> for pdftex@tug.org; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:32:51 +0100 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:32:45 +0100 (W. Europe Standard Time) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: TTF again In-reply-to: <363EC0E8.367F0834@wxs.nl> To: PDFTEX Message-id: <13886.63469.870000.972983@PC709> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 References: <199811022102.WAA26399@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <363EC0E8.367F0834@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "HH" == Hans Hagen writes: HH> Han The Thanh wrote: >> As far as I can see from experiments, TTF rendering in AcroReader is strongly >> platform-dependent, which is a bad news. While it works well on UNIX, on Win32 >> it seems that AcroReader just uses Windows' rendering mechanism and in this >> case that is the worst what could happen. So when use TTF fonts with pdftex, >> expect that your PDF may be no longer portable. HH> I recently experienced problems under W95 where ATM and the Windows font HH> (mis)manager disagreed on what font to use, and I ended up with e.g. ttf HH> symbols instead of pfb's. I found out that one potential conflict lays HH> in the mere fact that some ttf font names are the same as adobes (like HH> the symbol ones). Remedy: delete the ttf's. It's also possible to get boxes instead of chars in the following situation: - The PDF file was created on a system that has the multilingual TrueType fonts installed (The larger versions of the base fonts like Arial and TimesNewRoman, these get installed if one chooses to install the multilingual extensions of Windows 95). - The pdf is viewed on a system (Windows, Mac) *with* Truetype fonts but *without* the multilingual character set. The resident font will be used instead of the subset in the PDF, and that font will render all unknown glyphs as open boxes. Greetings, Taco -- Taco Hoekwater taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl Kluwer Academic Publishers -- Pre Press -- Achterom 119, 3311 KB Dordrecht, The Netherlands tel. 31-78-6392550 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 3 20:06:53 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA18564 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:06:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA22751 for pdftex-list; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:32:46 -0500 Received: from ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (cottrell@ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu [152.17.150.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA22748 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:32:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (cottrell@localhost) by ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA27202 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:30:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:30:51 -0500 (EST) From: Allin Cottrell To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Compiling lshort2e Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Trying to make a pdf version of the lshort2e guide locally, I'm seeing Warning: latex (file lasy10): Font lasy10 at 600 not found But lasy10.pfb is in the same directory as the other TeX-related pfb files, and is referenced in pdftex.map and logo.map. I tried uppercasing the font name in these map files (this is Linux) but that made no difference. I am running "pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12o-4 (Web2C 7.2)" Any suggestions gratefully received. -- Allin Cottrell Department of Economics Wake Forest University, NC From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 4 03:51:46 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA27690 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:51:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA23407 for pdftex-list; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:12:08 -0500 Received: from ns.tasking.nl (ns.tasking.nl [195.193.207.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA23404 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:12:05 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by ns.tasking.nl (8.8.4/8.6.12) id LAA28443 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:12:04 +0100 (MET) Received: by ns.tasking.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma028054; Wed, 4 Nov 98 11:10:27 +0100 Received: from kouvola.tasking.nl by empoli.tasking.nl; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/23Dec97-1135AM) id AA19577; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:10:40 +0100 Received: (from bruin@localhost) by kouvola.tasking.nl (8.8.7/8.6.9) id LAA28238; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:10:40 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: kouvola.tasking.nl: bruin set sender to kees_de_bruin@tasking.com using -f Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <13888.10272.271978.520261@kouvola.tasking.nl> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:10:40 +0100 (MET) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Image files not found X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Kees de Bruin Organization: Tasking Software BV, Amersfoort, The Netherlands Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm using pdflatex (0.12o) and I have problems including images that are not in the current directory. The situation is: /usr/local/teTeX/texmf/tex/... (standard tree) /usr/local/teTeX/texmf.local/tex/... (local tree) In the local tree I have the directory "latex/tasking/" that contains the following files: tsw.cls (company style class file) tasking.{eps,pdf} (company logo with name) tasking_logo.{eps,pdf} (company logo without name) In tsw.cls I use \includegraphics{tasking} to load the images in a box, but this doesn't work when using pdflatex (no problems with latex). Does this sound familiar, and if so, what can be done about it? Kind regards, -- Kees de Bruin Software Engineer --------------------------------------------------------------------------- E-mail: kees_de_bruin@tasking.com Tasking Software BV Voice: +31-33-455 85 84 Plotterweg 31 Fax: +31-33-455 00 03 3821 BB Amersfoort WWW: http://www.tasking.com The Netherlands --------------[ The wisest have the most authority -- Plato ]-------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 4 05:17:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA29164 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:17:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA23702 for pdftex-list; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:26:59 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA23699 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:26:25 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id LAA26528; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:24:12 GMT Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:24:12 GMT Message-Id: <199811041124.LAA26528@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: kees_de_bruin@tasking.com CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <13888.10272.271978.520261@kouvola.tasking.nl> (message from Kees de Bruin on Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:10:40 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: Image files not found References: <13888.10272.271978.520261@kouvola.tasking.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > this doesn't work when using pdflatex (no problems with latex). does your texmf.cnf have a separate TEXINPUTS.latex input path for latex? If so you may want to check that TEXINPUTS.pdflatex includes the same set of directories. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 4 06:04:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29885 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:04:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA23864 for pdftex-list; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:03:54 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA23859 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:03:36 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id MAA31526; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:02:53 GMT Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:02:53 GMT Message-Id: <199811041202.MAA31526@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: kees_de_bruin@tasking.com, pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <13888.15751.268714.114423@kouvola.tasking.nl> (message from Kees de Bruin on Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:41:59 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: Image files not found References: <13888.10272.271978.520261@kouvola.tasking.nl> <199811041124.LAA26528@nag.co.uk> <13888.15751.268714.114423@kouvola.tasking.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I forgot to say that now pdftex reads pdf files natively _two_ input paths need to be checked. TEXINPUTS (or TEXINPUTS.pdflatex) needs to include the image directory (or latex will keep warning you that the file isn't there) but also pdftex itself needs to include the file if I recall correctly it looks along TEXPSHEADERS so you need to check that (or TEXPSHEADERS.pdflatex) as well. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 4 07:08:57 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01040 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:08:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA24282 for pdftex-list; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:33:52 -0500 Received: from ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (cottrell@ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu [152.17.150.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA24279 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:33:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (cottrell@localhost) by ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA05784 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:31:48 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:31:48 -0500 (EST) From: Allin Cottrell To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: lasy10 problem, etc Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thanks to those who pointed me toward pdftex.cfg to check which font map files were actually being used; I'd forgotten about that. One other thing from compiling lshort2e: should I worry about "glyph /polishlcross undefined in cmr10.pfb"? -- Allin Cottrell Department of Economics Wake Forest University, NC From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 4 07:39:13 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01597 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:38:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA24412 for pdftex-list; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:50:22 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA24409 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:50:18 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-10-29.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.215]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA22301 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:50:10 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36405DC0.578CA8B1@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:59:28 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdfTeX mailing list Subject: pdftex12q win32 and ttf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Some error in ttf handling seems to have been introduced into pdftex12q (at least the version in pdftex-0_12q1-win32.zip >From Fabrice). I've got several tex files that use truetype fonts and work OK with the DJGPP version of pdftex12p, but both acroread and ghostview dislike the pdf files produced by version 12q. Bob Howlett From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 4 07:45:30 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01718 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:45:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24597 for pdftex-list; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:14:33 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24594 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:14:30 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11914; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:14:28 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA06992; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:14:27 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811041414.PAA06992@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex12q win32 and ttf In-Reply-To: <36405DC0.578CA8B1@mail.usyd.edu.au> from Robert Howlett at "Nov 5, 98 00:59:28 am" To: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au (Robert Howlett) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:14:27 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Some error in ttf handling seems to have been introduced > into pdftex12q (at least the version in pdftex-0_12q1-win32.zip > from Fabrice). I've got several tex files that use truetype > fonts and work OK with the DJGPP version of pdftex12p, but > both acroread and ghostview dislike the pdf files produced > by version 12q. yes I changed something in TTF handling, and there are some problems. Please wait for 0.12r Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 5 16:16:39 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16179 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA01672 for pdftex-list; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:43:06 -0500 Received: from ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.211.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01669 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:43:04 -0500 Received: by dublin.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de with ESMTP; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:42:55 +0100 (MET) Received: from abakus (abakus [127.0.0.1]) by abakus.mindrup.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00306 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:42:04 +0100 From: Uwe Mindrup To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:15:48 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.7.9] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98110523420402.32573@abakus> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tug.org id RAA01670 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, when I set a title like \pdfinfo{ /Title={Einf\"uhrung in die Informatik} } then the document info in Acrobat Reader shows something like this: Title: Einfprotect\protect {\grmnU@D 1ex{\setbox \z@ \hbox {\char 127}\dimen@ -.45ex\advance \dimen@ \ht \z@ }\accent 127\fontdimen 5\font \grmnU@D u}\penalty \@M \hskip \z@skip hrung in die Informatik How can I create a normal German Umlaut in a Title (or Author, or Subject, or ...) in \pdfinfo? In bookmarks there is a similar problem; the outfile .out shows \BOOKMARK {section.3.1}{Nat\"urliche Zahlen}{chapter.3} With a little PerlScript (thanks to Uwe Berger) it is possible to change the incorrect characters after generating the .out-file. It looks like this: \BOOKMARK {section.3.1}{Nat\\\374rliche Zahlen}{chapter.3} After this the new writing of the .out-file must been forbidden with the line \let\WriteBookmarks\relax It works, but it is not very fine. Is there a better solution? Uwe Mindrup -- uemindru@dublin.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 5 17:05:38 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17195 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 17:05:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01837 for pdftex-list; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:29:22 -0500 Received: from monster.igd.fhg.de (monster.igd.fhg.de [153.97.128.43]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA01834 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:29:19 -0500 Received: from smurfsoft.dauenhauer.de (isdnprj110) by monster.igd.fhg.de (5.x/SMI-4.1) id AA06102; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:29:10 +0100 Received: from zgdv.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smurfsoft.dauenhauer.de (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA22273; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:28:57 +0100 Message-Id: <364234B5.293AF44A@zgdv.de> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 00:28:53 +0100 From: Christian Kumpf Organization: ZGDV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Uwe Mindrup Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. References: <98110523420402.32573@abakus> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------40355D4FE89D80204DE27EDB" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------40355D4FE89D80204DE27EDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I circumvented the problem the easy (UNIX) way. Instead of tackeling with TeXs expansion algorithm, I used sed. This is more portable (at least between UNIX-like systems) than perl. First step is to use iso-accents (\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc}) for typing umlauts instead of \". Second step is to run the sed-filter between tex-runs (is done by make). My solution isn't really nice either but at least portable between UNIX-systems. The sed-filter is appended. Doing it the right (TeX) way would have give me pain for at least one afternoon, because there are many things in TeXs expansion-algorithm that are hard to figure out, so I usually do such things by try&terror. Is there any true TeXnician volunteering? Cheers, Christian P.S.: Jody, I think this is a good candidate for the FAQ. Uwe Mindrup wrote: > when I set a title like > \pdfinfo{ > /Title={Einf\"uhrung in die Informatik} > } > then the document info in Acrobat Reader shows something like this: > > Title: Einfprotect\protect {\grmnU@D 1ex{\setbox \z@ \hbox {\char 127}\dimen@ > -.45ex\advance \dimen@ \ht \z@ }\accent 127\fontdimen 5\font \grmnU@D > u}\penalty \@M \hskip \z@skip hrung in die Informatik > > How can I create a normal German Umlaut in a Title (or Author, or Subject, or > ...) in \pdfinfo? --------------40355D4FE89D80204DE27EDB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; name="outfilter.sed" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="outfilter.sed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable s:\\"a:=E4:g s:\\"o:=F6:g s:\\"u:=FC:g s:\\"A:=C4:g s:\\"O:=D6:g s:\\"U:=DC:g s:\\"s:=DF:g s:\\text[^{]*{\([^}]*\)}:\1:g s:\\kern.*em::g s:\$::g --------------40355D4FE89D80204DE27EDB-- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 5 21:51:07 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA23052 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA02238 for pdftex-list; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:29:49 -0500 Received: from ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (cottrell@ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu [152.17.150.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA02235 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:29:48 -0500 Received: from localhost (cottrell@localhost) by ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA11561 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:27:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:27:26 -0500 (EST) From: Allin Cottrell To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. In-Reply-To: <364234B5.293AF44A@zgdv.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Christian Kumpf wrote: > I circumvented the problem the easy (UNIX) way. Instead of > tackeling with TeXs expansion algorithm, I used sed. Ah, that's a clever plan! I wrote a couple of little filters in C for a similar purpose, which I called "7bitify" and "8bitify". The first is useful if I want to send an 8-bit TeX source to somebody who doesn't have a setup that will cope with it, while the second is useful if I want to edit some TeX source without the clutter of \'e etc. I can post them if anyone's interested. Allin Cottrell. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 6 03:27:13 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA29168 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 03:27:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA02603 for pdftex-list; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:53:34 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA02600 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:53:33 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.146]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6E6E; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:53:30 +0100 Message-ID: <3642BEDF.A4A7EB3C@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:18:23 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. References: <98110523420402.32573@abakus> <364234B5.293AF44A@zgdv.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Christian Kumpf wrote: > I circumvented the problem the easy (UNIX) way. Instead of tackeling with TeXs > expansion algorithm, I used sed. This is more portable (at least between > UNIX-like systems) than perl. Beware of portability! PDFdocencoding slightly differs per platform. > Doing it the right (TeX) way would have give me pain for at least one afternoon, > because there are many things in TeXs expansion-algorithm that are hard to > figure out, so I usually do such things by try&terror. > > Is there any true TeXnician volunteering? Well, there was some discusion on this some time ago. I even posted some stuff. I have no problems in moving some of the low level macros to supp-pdf (given the time to do it). I also have perl scripts for handling fields etc, but these only come available when I consider them to be stable, also in relation to context functionality. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 6 03:44:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA29463 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 03:44:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA02607 for pdftex-list; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:53:41 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA02604 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:53:39 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.146]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2BE4; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:53:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3642BCE8.762F6D2E@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:10:00 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Uwe Mindrup CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. References: <98110523420402.32573@abakus> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Uwe Mindrup wrote: > when I set a title like > \pdfinfo{ > /Title={Einf\"uhrung in die Informatik} > } > then the document info in Acrobat Reader shows something like this: > > Title: Einfprotect\protect {\grmnU@D 1ex{\setbox \z@ \hbox {\char 127}\dimen@ > -.45ex\advance \dimen@ \ht \z@ }\accent 127\fontdimen 5\font \grmnU@D > u}\penalty \@M \hskip \z@skip hrung in die Informatik > > How can I create a normal German Umlaut in a Title (or Author, or Subject, or > ...) in \pdfinfo? > > In bookmarks there is a similar problem; the outfile .out shows > \BOOKMARK {section.3.1}{Nat\"urliche Zahlen}{chapter.3} > With a little PerlScript (thanks to Uwe Berger) it is possible to change the > incorrect characters after generating the .out-file. It looks like this: > \BOOKMARK {section.3.1}{Nat\\\374rliche Zahlen}{chapter.3} > > After this the new writing of the .out-file must been forbidden with the line > \let\WriteBookmarks\relax > > It works, but it is not very fine. Only pdfdoc encoding is permitted, so an arbitrary mapping is not possible. In principle tex should sort this out, but because tex has no real concept of named glyphs, things should be handled at the macro level. > Is there a better solution? Let the macro package sort it out. In context when needed, conversion is automatic. In a similar way when entering data in fields things like \" are autimatically converted into the right code. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 6 04:47:26 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA00414 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:47:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA02906 for pdftex-list; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:55:43 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA02900 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:55:21 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id KAA11914; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:54:47 GMT Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:54:47 GMT Message-Id: <199811061054.KAA11914@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org CC: uemindru@dublin.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de In-reply-to: <3642BCE8.762F6D2E@wxs.nl> (message from Hans Hagen on Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:10:00 +0100) Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. References: <98110523420402.32573@abakus> <3642BCE8.762F6D2E@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Let the macro package sort it out. In this case LaTeX would have sorted it out if you had used any encoding in which "o is in the latin-1 position (eg T1). It looks like you have \" set up to use german.sty style macros to lower the umlaut closer to the base letter. Not surprisingly they don't work in a bookmark file. Note that if you add \let\WriteBookmarks\relax to your latex document then you can edit the .out bookmark file by hand to clean it up and latex will not overwrite these changes. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 6 04:58:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA00568 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:58:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA03025 for pdftex-list; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:21:01 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA03022 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:21:00 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id LAA02444; hop 0; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:13:02 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:20:42 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13890.56096.719769.400400@srahtz> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:18:56 +0000 (GMT) To: davidc@nag.co.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org, uemindru@dublin.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. In-Reply-To: <199811061054.KAA11914@nag.co.uk> References: <98110523420402.32573@abakus> <3642BCE8.762F6D2E@wxs.nl> <199811061054.KAA11914@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle writes: > In this case LaTeX would have sorted it out if you had used any > encoding in which "o is in the latin-1 position (eg T1). > It looks like you have \" set up to use german.sty style macros > to lower the umlaut closer to the base letter. Not surprisingly > they don't work in a bookmark file. indeed. the chances of hyperref working as you might hope with german.sty are remote indeed. moral, as Hans Hagen will tell you - don't use Acrobat bookmarks. design your document for the screen, and construct your own menus. then TeX will do the typesetting, and it'll all be OK. mind you, playing games with lowering the umlaut will mean your PDF is not usefully searchable.... Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 6 10:25:06 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06832 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:24:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA03822 for pdftex-list; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:05:52 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA03819 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:05:34 -0500 Received: from remote142-86.home.uni-freiburg.de (Kabuffi) [132.230.142.86] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0zboO8-0002mv-00; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 17:05:29 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981106170639.007ac990@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:06:39 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. In-Reply-To: <98110523420402.32573@abakus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_910364799==_" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk --=====================_910364799==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:15 05.11.98 +0100, Uwe Mindrup wrote: >How can I create a normal German Umlaut in a Title (or Author, or Subject, or >...) in \pdfinfo? > >In bookmarks there is a similar problem; >[...]the outfile .out shows > \BOOKMARK {section.3.1}{Nat\"urliche Zahlen}{chapter.3} >[...] >Is there a better solution? At 00:28 06.11.98 +0100, Christian Kumpf wrote: >[...] >First step is to use iso-accents (\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc}) for typing >umlauts instead of \". >Second step is to run the sed-filter between tex-runs (is done by make). >[...] >Is there any true TeXnician volunteering? At 11:18 06.11.98 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >David Carlisle writes: > > In this case LaTeX would have sorted it out if you had used any > > encoding in which "o is in the latin-1 position (eg T1). > > It looks like you have \" set up to use german.sty style macros > > to lower the umlaut closer to the base letter. Not surprisingly > > they don't work in a bookmark file. >indeed. the chances of hyperref working as you might hope with >german.sty are remote indeed. > >moral, as Hans Hagen will tell you - don't use Acrobat >bookmarks. design your document for the screen, and construct your own >menus. then TeX will do the typesetting, and it'll all be OK. These are three quotations from the current thread. Because I also need german umlauts, I have written some macros to solve the problem: I set me two conditions: 1) I do _not_ want to postprocess a *.out, *.ps, or *.pdf file by perl, sed, or whatever. 2) If possible, I do not want to change catcodes, because if a macro sees its argument, the catcodes are already fix. The solution: A) Bookmarks and the info-, author-, ...-strings use the PDFDocEncoding: * Chars can be specified directly or by an octal notation: Umlaut a (\"a)= \344 * Unmatched brackets ('(' or ')') must be escaped ('\(', '\)') * With AcrobatReader 3.01 (Win 3.11) I could not verify the special meaning of \b (backspace to generate special accented letters that are not part of the PDFDocEncoding) or \n (two line entries) for example. The LaTeX2e solution to handle different encodings is the fontencoding mechanism. So I have written a "PDFDocEncoding-fontencoding-definition" file "pd1enc.def". Here all 8bit and special 7bit characters are mapped to their octal sequence. These glyphs are now accessible by the standard naming scheme "\text" (e. g. \textcopyright) or by the normal TeX commands to produce accents (\c C\"asar). The same TeX string can now be written in the document's encoding to write chapters, sections, headlines, or the tableofcontents. And before the same string is written as bookmark (out file), only the encoding have to be changed to the PDFDocEncoding (PD1) to get a correct "encoded" output. This method is sufficient for the info, author, title, ... items. B) The bookmark case is more complicate. Simple strings with umlauts or accented characters are handled by method A. But if the user is writing a section string, he can use the whole TeX language with math formulas, logos, several fonts, ... -- in the bookmarks only one font and one encoding can be used (and unicode maybe). a) One method is to use a "second optional" argument of the sectioning commands to specify the bookmark entry. (I haven't implemented this method, because I think that there are too many packages that overload the sectioning commands and I don't want to go into incompatiblity trouble. But if wanted, this can easily be done.) b) Use of a macro to define the next string for a bookmark entry: \pdfbookmarkstring{Hello World, this is a bookmark} \section{Hello World, this isn't part of the bookmarks} \section{This string is in the bookmarks, too} creates the bookmarks: 1 Hello World, this is a bookmark 2 This string is in the bookmarks, too and the table of contents: 1 Hello World, this isn't part of the bookmarks 2 This string is in the bookmarks, too c) While writing a bookmark a switch can be set and a macro can ask if it be set or not and produce the right output: \section{This is \ifbookmark{a bookmark}{a heading}} \section{The role of \ifbookmark{water}{H$_2$O}} d) Common commands can be redefined while writing a bookmark. (see current hyperref for example: it redefines \textbf, ...) But this solution can not be complete because there are a nearly infinite number of commands to be redefined (costs of size and speed). The implementation: "pd1enc.def": For testing the encoding declarations are in a separate file. Advantage: it can also be used with the package fontenc: \usepackage[PD1,OT1]{fontenc}. (A alternative: the declarations can be a part of one large package file). "hypbmext.sty": For testing I used the form of a package. It has to be loaded after hyperref, because it overloads \@writetorep and \ReadBookmarks. * \ReadBookmarks: The correct \escapechar is needed, it is used by the octal notation (\344). * \@writetorep: Here are the hooks for the features a), b), and c). * \hbe@defPDEString makes the work, it changes the encoding, redefines some commands: a) required for encoding: \0, \1, ... b) (La)TeX commands that produce character output: \$, \#, \ , ~, \dots, \ldots, ... c) Commands of language packages (german, ...): \grlqq, \flq, ... d) Optional: Other commands like font switching: \textbf, ... (See method B.d) * For defining the command that holds the string I have implemented two possibilities: 2.) weak form: \edef to get the fontencoding mechanism work. Advantage: more compatible with old code than the strong form. Disadvantage: stomach commands (\relax, ...) are not be expanded further, they become part of the output string. The user have to scan the pdf-result to detect this wrong artefacts. 1.) strong form: converting to output string via "\expandafter\string\csname \endcsname". The string is expanded like edef, but stomach commands that make the pdf output string dirty cause an error at TeX compile time. So the user is forced to give the correct code for the bookmark, info, author, ... entries. Testing: I have tested it with hyperref 6.30 and 6.41, german 2.5e and 2.5f, pdftex 0.12o-6-tiff3 under Win 3.11 and Win 95 and acrobat reader 3.01. Form: The current package is only for testing. It the code or parts of them is useful then Sebastion may use it in order to improve his wunderful hyperref package. The alternatives: If some better thing exists, the code can be killed. If not then the code can I provide and support this as a standalone package that adds features to hyperref. Use: \usepackage{german}% or not \usepackage[pdftex, ...]{hyperref} \usepackage{hypbmext}% Options: exactdeftrue, exactdeffalse \defpdfauthor{\c C"asar M"uller} ... \bookmarkstring and \ifbookmark see above Questions and ToDos: 1. Any bugs, problems, incompatibilities, ...? 2. other active characters (babel: activeacute). 3. Hans Hagen wrote: >Beware of portability! PDFdocencoding slightly differs per platform. In pdfspec.pdf there is a system independend description of the encoding. The problem I found is: AcrobatReader uses system (truetype) fonts for the bookmarks and pdfinfo entries. Because the fl and fi glyphs are lacking in the windows standard fonts (Win95/Win3.11) I get only a white space instead. Which glyphs are accessible by other systems? 4. The PDF/PS string specification contains for example a backspace '\b' or a newline '\n'. In the bookmarks or pdfinfo entries these characters produce only blanks like the unavailable glyphs in 3. Intention: The PDFDocEnconding contains the sole accents, so it is possible to compose accented characters that are not in the PDFDocEncoding? Is there a possiblity to generate a entry with several lines (\n)? 5. Method B.d): Are there commands that should be redefined like \textbf, ...? Or should the redefining be limited to commands that produce character output (\textcelsius, ...)? 6. Does the strong form (with "\csname" to define a PDFDocEncoded string) be ok? 7. Does it exists a _safe_ method to use 8bit characters in pd1enc.def to save token memory? 8. Names of commands, Encoding, ...? 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Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:11:43 +0100 Message-ID: <36437F7C.A18E214D@wxs.nl> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 00:00:12 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Heiko Oberdiek CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. References: <3.0.6.32.19981106170639.007ac990@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Heiko Oberdiek wrote: > * With AcrobatReader 3.01 (Win 3.11) I could not verify the special > meaning of \b (backspace to generate special accented letters that are Forget about that one. > 3. Hans Hagen wrote: > >Beware of portability! PDFdocencoding slightly differs per platform. > In pdfspec.pdf there is a system independend description of the encoding. Well, some glyphs are simply not available at all platforms. Even worse, I found out that some are not even available while the reference tells otherwise. > The PDFDocEnconding contains the sole accents, so it > is possible to compose accented characters that are not in the > PDFDocEncoding? We're talking of just strings, no typesetting or pseudo typesetting! > Is there a possiblity to generate a entry with several lines (\n)? Yes, it depends on the context in which these rather verbose content/text is used. Sorry that I cannot be of much more help, but the mechanisms I use here do not make much sense in latex I guess, if only because I'm unfamiliar with the font/language mechanisms. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 7 03:59:09 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA27759 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 03:59:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA05018 for pdftex-list; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 05:32:00 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA05015 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 05:31:57 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:31:49 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA24616; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:31:26 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:31:25 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. In-Reply-To: <36437F7C.A18E214D@wxs.nl> References: <3.0.6.32.19981106170639.007ac990@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> <36437F7C.A18E214D@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13892.8409.409228.757256@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen wrote -- > > Sorry that I cannot be of much more help, but the mechanisms I use here > do not make much sense in latex I guess, if only because I'm unfamiliar > with the font/language mechanisms. All LaTeX's encoding-dependent stuff at present is designed only for typeset output. It would be intseresting to know what Context provides for output to other systems. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 7 04:45:33 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA28443 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 04:45:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA05205 for pdftex-list; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 06:19:05 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA05202 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 06:19:03 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:18:58 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA24645; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:18:35 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:18:35 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org CC: pragma@wxs.nl Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. In-Reply-To: <36437F7C.A18E214D@wxs.nl> References: <3.0.6.32.19981106170639.007ac990@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> <36437F7C.A18E214D@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13892.8579.325808.807418@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk The recent highlighting of these problems prompts me to send these thoughts that I had some time ago. But first a cautionary story. For a long time I had assumed that those parts of the input where the characters which must be (according to that work of the minimalist school known as "The pdfTeX Manual") in pdfdocencoding would not be expanded by pdfTeX. I now realise this impression was false. This illustrates one reason why I find it very difficult to work on developing pdftex and macros for it: there is no technical documentation, either of the code development or of the detailed semantics. Please can this be given priority over enhancements? It does not have to be correct as we shall soon find the bugs! But its existence will mean that it can be improved and changed as the system develops. Now back to the fundamental question: should this character text be expanded by pdftex? Technical notes: -- not expanding it does not prevent macro packages defining stuff that expands into suitable text for inclusion in these primitives; -- not expanding it makes it clear that this text is "characters, not glyphs" and that any input methods supported within it *must* be handled by specialised macros. Of course, there is still a need to develop suitable macros: for LaTeX these would need to be as platform-dependent as possible (if this is a real issue at the pdftex stage) and would probably evolve into a more general mechanism for handling character output (see below). A more mundane question for pdftex is whether it should check that the character-numbers it puts in the .pdf file are in the pdfdocencoding range (or even within range for all platforms?): issuing a warning if not. In some sense this is an eTeX issue (as are most things concerned with encodings) but it is also an excellent example of a low-level process for which TeX was not designed but which is needed in this TeX extension: thus there is no reason to treat as if it was just like classic TeX, where things in general (and particularly things like this) get expanded far too readily, IMHO. So maybe we should try to get it right for pdftex in a a way that can be tested and then put into eTeX in a more general form. I realise that I have not here explained the general issues but I hope that the above makes sense. I did not want to go into the technicalities of encodings and of the large differences between the following (this list is not necessarily complete): A -- output of character strings to external files that are internal to the TeX system (eg some contents of LaTeX's .aux files); B -- output to log files and to the terminal; C -- typeset output of glyphs (output to a .dvi file or .pdf file or ...); D -- output of character strings to external files that are for use by other systems (eg makeindex, xindy, pdf readers). The new (AFAIK) phenomenon in pdftex is the systematic and well-defined output of both types C and D for use in a closely integrated way by another application. This is why it deserves careful thought. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 7 08:44:13 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02057 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:44:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05728 for pdftex-list; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:23:41 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05723 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:23:37 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.189]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA36A0; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:23:27 +0100 Message-ID: <364466BE.318AE355@wxs.nl> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 16:26:54 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. References: <3.0.6.32.19981106170639.007ac990@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> <36437F7C.A18E214D@wxs.nl> <13892.8409.409228.757256@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > Hans Hagen wrote -- > > > > > Sorry that I cannot be of much more help, but the mechanisms I use here > > do not make much sense in latex I guess, if only because I'm unfamiliar > > with the font/language mechanisms. > > All LaTeX's encoding-dependent stuff at present is designed only for > typeset output. > > It would be intseresting to know what Context provides for output to > other systems. Input: input/font related, some day soon also language dependant; PS related input (metapost interpretation, EPS and PDF parsing, etc), Output: specific stuff for intermediate tex (buffers etc)), PS, PDFdoc (forms, text annots, etc), JavaScript, etc. Sanatizing things according to standards, before/at the special/literal stage, sometimes mixed. I'm pretty sure that some day the currently rather stand-alone pieces of code will be part of a more integrated system module. I have some ideas on this, but time as well as performance reasons do me stand back. What we actually need is something OTR (the omega stuff) at the input as well as the intermediate and output stage. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 7 08:52:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02171 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:52:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA05730 for pdftex-list; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:23:41 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA05726 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:23:40 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.189]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA37E7; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:23:23 +0100 Message-ID: <36446456.1788D741@wxs.nl> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 16:16:38 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. References: <3.0.6.32.19981106170639.007ac990@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> <36437F7C.A18E214D@wxs.nl> <13892.8579.325808.807418@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > For a long time I had assumed that those parts of the input where the > characters which must be (according to that work of the minimalist > school known as "The pdfTeX Manual") in pdfdocencoding would not be > expanded by pdfTeX. I now realise this impression was false. > > This illustrates one reason why I find it very difficult to work on > developing pdftex and macros for it: there is no technical > documentation, either of the code development or of the detailed > semantics. > > Please can this be given priority over enhancements? It does not have > to be correct as we shall soon find the bugs! But its existence will > mean that it can be improved and changed as the system develops. In principle the pdf referende manual explains it all; pdfTeX offers the hooks but the implementation is mainly pdf based. In fact, everything that can be done in pdftex can be done using dvi+pdfmarks->distiller->pdf. PDF introduces some new things, like objects, but looking at tex, this is something that should be discussed in relation to etex and DVI-3. To realize some things, like forms, takes some macro programming effort, as well as access to some core macropackage functionality, but still this is not that unique to pdftex. More a matter of design. > Technical notes: > > -- not expanding it does not prevent macro packages defining stuff > that expands into suitable text for inclusion in these primitives; > > -- not expanding it makes it clear that this text is "characters, > not glyphs" and that any input methods supported within it *must* be > handled by specialised macros. Again, (e)tex should first have proper input/output encoding mechanisms. > A more mundane question for pdftex is whether it should check that the > character-numbers it puts in the .pdf file are in the pdfdocencoding > range (or even within range for all platforms?): issuing a warning if > not. I think some day there will be more encodings possible. The problem is then not so much in the encoding, as well in the simple fact that one has to be sure that glyphs are present, i.e. when another encoding is used, the accompanying font sshould be there too (which means: no partial fonts, all glyps present, etc etc, as well as the system editors/viewers being able to display/edit things etc etc. Not entirely trivial.) I have some ideas of getting around some pdftex data entry, search and structuring limitations, but I will work out some decent solutions myself first. > In some sense this is an eTeX issue (as are most things concerned with > encodings) but it is also an excellent example of a low-level process > for which TeX was not designed but which is needed in this TeX > extension: thus there is no reason to treat as if it was just like > classic TeX, where things in general (and particularly things like > this) get expanded far too readily, IMHO. Right, right, n*right. > So maybe we should try to get it right for pdftex in a a way that can > be tested and then put into eTeX in a more general form. Indeed, etex stuff. Related to language dependant encodings, i.e. input encodings, font encodings, output encodings, switching per language, per font, per special etc. > I realise that I have not here explained the general issues but I > hope that the above makes sense. It does, and the time coming I'm going to experiment with this. (For the moment I can do the things I want to do anyway.) > A -- output of character strings to external files that are internal to > the TeX system (eg some contents of LaTeX's .aux files); > > B -- output to log files and to the terminal; > > C -- typeset output of glyphs (output to a .dvi file or .pdf file or ...); > > D -- output of character strings to external files that are for use by > other systems (eg makeindex, xindy, pdf readers). E -- output of character strings to specific subsystems, like data entry, text presentation, javascript alike things, etc etc etc. > The new (AFAIK) phenomenon in pdftex is the systematic and > well-defined output of both types C and D for use in a closely > integrated way by another application. This is why it deserves > careful thought. Right. Well, now you know why at the Oldenburg etex/latex/context meeting I wanted these things (the remap things) put on the agenda (remapping at the special output stage, different for pdfdocencoding, javascript, postscript, etc). (It will for sure be part of the NTG future activities, at dvi as well as pdf, but also at the input (xml) level). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 7 16:20:19 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA10155 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:20:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA06591 for pdftex-list; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:42:03 -0500 Received: from math.berkeley.edu (math.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.183.94]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA06588 for ; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 17:41:59 -0500 Received: from bosco.berkeley.edu (bosco.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.183.1]) by math.berkeley.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25437; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:41:53 -0800 (PST) From: vojta@math.berkeley.edu (Paul Vojta) Received: (vojta@localhost) by bosco.berkeley.edu (8.8.5/8.6.4) id OAA03495; Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:41:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:41:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811072241.OAA03495@bosco.berkeley.edu> To: pragma@wxs.nl Subject: DVI-3 (Was: Problems with Umlauts ...) Cc: pdftex@tug.org Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Sat Nov 7 07:51:57 1998, Hans Hagen wrote (in part): > PDF introduces some new things, like objects, but looking at tex, this > is something that should be discussed in relation to etex and DVI-3. Can you tell me what DVI-3 is? I've never heard of it before, but I'd be interested in hearing about it, especially if it's an extension to the .dvi file format. --Paul Vojta, vojta@math.berkeley.edu From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 8 14:47:34 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02688 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:47:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA08062 for pdftex-list; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:09:54 -0500 Received: from ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.211.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08059 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:09:50 -0500 Received: by dublin.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de with ESMTP; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:09:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from abakus (abakus [127.0.0.1]) by abakus.mindrup.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA01248 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:57:53 +0100 From: Uwe Mindrup To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:50:48 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.7.9] Content-Type: text/plain References: <3.0.6.32.19981106170639.007ac990@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98110821575300.01212@abakus> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tug.org id QAA08060 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, >How can I create a normal German Umlaut in a Title (or Author, or Subject, or >...) in \pdfinfo? thank you all for the many answers to my question. The best solution seems to be the implementation of Heiko Oberdiek; his "\hbe@defPDEString" solves my problem. Yours sincerely Uwe Mindrup -- uemindru@dublin.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 8 17:04:14 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05094 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:04:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA08365 for pdftex-list; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:39:28 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA08362 for ; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:39:25 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:39:21 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id XAA25631; Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:38:57 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 23:38:57 +0000 (GMT) To: Cc: pragma@wxs.nl, pdftex@tug.org Original-To: Cc:pragma@wxs.nl, pdftex@tug.org PP-Warning: Parse error in original version of preceding To line Subject: Re: DVI-3 (Was: Problems with Umlauts ...) In-Reply-To: <199811072241.OAA03495@bosco.berkeley.edu> References: <199811072241.OAA03495@bosco.berkeley.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13894.10842.992001.792235@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Can you tell me what DVI-3 is? I've never heard of it before, but I'd > be interested in hearing about it, especially if it's an extension to > the .dvi file format. > Perhaps Hans and I have managed between us to confuse lots of people. Although there is a lot of work going on to produce extensions of TeX and there are discussions about yet further changes, including a new Device Independent language for describing the output of a document formatter (using both `document' and `format' in a very wide sense), not everything to which we allude exists as yet. My general point is that it may be sensible to think about some of these new ideas in the pdftex context and to try out there some more radical departures from standard TeX's way of doing things. I feel that this is the right place to do such experiments because pdftex is designed and is being used to support many new things. Some of these are perhaps more clearly new than others. Future extended versions of TeX will very likely need to support on-line document readers with facilities like Acrobat (maybe even ones that work properly on all platforms:-). Therefore practical experiments with such a good product as pdftex will have enormous future benefits in the wider world of the future of document processing. I should like to be closely involved with these experiments but I find this very difficult without technical documentation at a low-level which should not be in a user manual for pdftex but should be available. > In principle the pdf referende manual explains it all; pdfTeX offers the > hooks but the implementation is mainly pdf based. In fact, everything > that can be done in pdftex can be done using > dvi+pdfmarks->distiller->pdf. OK good, but we do not want to know only "what it does" at this high level but also "how it does it", at a level similar to the e-TeX documentation produced by Peter Breitenlohner. Personally, being the kind of geek who reads TeX The Program over my weheatieflakes but not the kind who can simply see the new code whilst reading the change file, I would also like more documentation of how the code has been changed and augmented to produce the wonderful product we now have. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 9 04:07:09 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16876 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:07:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA09276 for pdftex-list; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:23:57 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA09273 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:23:54 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA19308; hop 0; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:15:54 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:23:48 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13894.48451.673670.597428@srahtz> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:00:35 +0000 (GMT) To: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org, pragma@wxs.nl Subject: Re: Problems with german Umlauts in Title, Author etc. In-Reply-To: <13892.8579.325808.807418@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <3.0.6.32.19981106170639.007ac990@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> <36437F7C.A18E214D@wxs.nl> <13892.8579.325808.807418@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley writes: > This illustrates one reason why I find it very difficult to work on > developing pdftex and macros for it: there is no technical > documentation, either of the code development or of the detailed > semantics. i feel that you exaggerate. pdfTeX mostly simply passes what its given into PDF, so it is the PDF manual which is your real friend. I know I am a mere hacker, but I have not found pdfTeX's documentation a problem > Please can this be given priority over enhancements? It does not have > to be correct as we shall soon find the bugs! But its existence will > mean that it can be improved and changed as the system develops. > the pdfTeX FAQ and Manual are both very open to additional material. why not write it? i for one prefer Thanh to work on the functionality..... > A more mundane question for pdftex is whether it should check that the > character-numbers it puts in the .pdf file are in the pdfdocencoding > range (or even within range for all platforms?): issuing a warning if > not. this reminds me of the discussion about who should check whether ( and ) are quoted. i am inclined to agree that pdfTeX *could* do more validation of what it writes Sebastian From "Nelson H. F. Beebe " Mon Nov 9 13:48:06 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29519; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:48:06 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA25337; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:48:05 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:48:05 -0700 (MST) To: pdftex@tug.org Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: ["Roggencamp,Steve" : RE: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables] Message-ID: Folks, this message from the PDF Developers list about discrepancies between the documentation of PDF, and its implementation in Adobe Acrobat programs, may be of relevance for pdftex: --------------- Received: from everglades.binc.net (everglades.binc.net [208.155.48.8]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26146 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by everglades.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA32421; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:26:04 -0600 Received: by everglades.binc.net (bulk_mailer v1.8); Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:23:25 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by everglades.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA32249; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:23:24 -0600 Message-Id: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1F897EC@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> From: "Roggencamp,Steve" To: "'pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com'" Subject: RE: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:23:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com Reply-To: pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com URL: PDFzone.COM - 'All Things PDF' http://www.pdfzone.com/ Registration: Sub/Unsub http://www.pdfzone.com/resources/lists.html Contact: List Administrator mailto:listowner@pdfzone.com ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== Yes. In my experience PDF files produced by Adobe's Exchange do not follow the PDF Specification V 1.2. (November 12, 1996), or perhaps more correctly, Adobe's Acrobat Reader did not like the files my application produced when encoded to my interpretation of the V1.2 spec. Here's my list of discrepancies, keyed to the PDF V1.2 specification page numbers: Page 247: Part 5: Primary Hint Stream (Note: Parts 5 and 6 my be placed in the opposite order) Nope, not if you want Acrobat Reader 3.01 to be able to work without hanging up Netscape. Acrobat Exchange puts the PHS as the next object after the catalog and the Reader seems to expect it there. I suspect this problem has to do with the fact that the PDF readers effectively remove the PHS from the PDF file and Reader incorrectly calculates the offset if the PHS is where it expects it. Page 257: Items 6 & 7 in Table 9.3. AE always sets these items to 0, even though it appears that these should have a value according to the spec. This table consists of a header section described in Table 9.3, followed by one or more per-page entries, described in Table 9.4. I interpreted this to mean that the half-dozen or so per-page items would be group together and repeated for each page. This is incorrect. First, all item 1s are grouped together into a big bit vector and outputted. Next all item 2s are grouped together into a bit vector and outputted, and so on, until all five items have been generated. I'm not too sure about item 5s since we do not have any documents that have any shared objects. Page 259: Table 9.5, Items 2 and 4. AE always sets item 2 to 16 (base 10). It always sets item 4 to the same value as item 3, even though there are not entries in the Shared Object Group. This table consists of a header section, described in Table 9.5, followed by one or more Shared Object Group entries: the ones for objects located in the first page, followed by the ones for objects located in the Shared Objects section. The entries have the same format in both cases. These entries follow the same weird bit-smashing scheme described above. Page 262: Section 9.4.5 Outline, Thread Info, Dests, and Info hint tables These tables use the generic hint table representations... For the Outline hint table, the object number (item 1) is the object number of the "/Outline" object, but the location (item 2) contains the offset to the first item in the outline, not the object referenced by Item 1! Item 3, the number of objects in the group includes the "Outline" object in the count. In the files produced by AE, Item 4 includes the length of the object following the outline and neglects the length of the original "Outline" object. In our case this is the page content object. There may be more discrepancies, but these are the ones I found when creating a Linearized PDF writer. Hope this helps. We've used the resulting application to produce several thousand linearized PDF files, one of which is about 2100 pages / 162 MB long. We've had no problems in getting Acrobat Reader to digest these files. Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Bentley, Tom [SMTP:Tom.Bentley@Cognos.COM] > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 10:17 AM > To: 'pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com' > Subject: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables > > > ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== > > Has anyone figured out how to create the hint tables (documentation is > sufficiently vague on this) for PDF linearization? Any help would be > greatly appreciated, thanks. > > Tom Bentley > Sr. Consulting Software Engineer > Cognos Inc. > Email: Tom.Bentley@cognos.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- > *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** > + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + > __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + __________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From "Nelson H. F. Beebe " Mon Nov 9 13:55:13 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29699; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:55:11 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA25387; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:55:11 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:55:11 -0700 (MST) To: pdftex@tug.org Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: ["Nai-Tsang Cheng": Re[2]: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables] Message-ID: Folks, here is a followup on the discrepancies between documentation and implementation of PDF: --------------- Received: from everglades.binc.net (everglades.binc.net [208.155.48.8]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28175 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by everglades.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA05818; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:50:42 -0600 Received: by everglades.binc.net (bulk_mailer v1.8); Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:46:53 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by everglades.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05464; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:46:51 -0600 Message-Id: <9811099106.AA910640975@smtp.docucorp.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.20.00.25 Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:48:27 -0500 From: "Nai-Tsang Cheng" To: Subject: Re[2]: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Sender: owner-pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com Reply-To: pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com URL: PDFzone.COM - 'All Things PDF' http://www.pdfzone.com/ Registration: Sub/Unsub http://www.pdfzone.com/resources/lists.html Contact: List Administrator mailto:listowner@pdfzone.com ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== Oh boy, Steve! I wish you have post your message five months ago, so I didn't suffered so much! Addition to your corrections: 1. On page 252 Table 9.2, the key /P is not a requirement. 2. Since Item 7 in Table 9.3 is always set to 0, the Item 4 in Table 9.4 is not needed. 3. The correct order for Table 9.4 is Item 1, 2, 5, 6, 3, and 4 (while item 3 is not needed) 4. As you pointed out, each item should be grouped for all pages before go to next item. This is the same to item 5 and 6. Note that item 6 actually consists 2 items and they also have to follow the grouping rule. 5. On page 259 Table 9.5, the item 4 is the number of shared object entries for Shared Objects Section plus the number of shared object entries for First Page Shared Objects Section. 6. The item 5 in Table 9.5 is always set to 0. That is, item 1 in Table 9.6 is not needed. 7. The correct order of Table 9.6 is Item 2, 3, 1, and 4 (while item 1 is not needed) 8. The outline hint table is not so important, it could be skipped. Nai-Tsang Cheng Docucorp International ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables Author: at INTERNET Date: 11/9/98 1:23 PM ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== Yes. In my experience PDF files produced by Adobe's Exchange do not follow the PDF Specification V 1.2. (November 12, 1996), or perhaps more correctly, Adobe's Acrobat Reader did not like the files my application produced when encoded to my interpretation of the V1.2 spec. Here's my list of discrepancies, keyed to the PDF V1.2 specification page numbers: Page 247: Part 5: Primary Hint Stream (Note: Parts 5 and 6 my be placed in the opposite order) Nope, not if you want Acrobat Reader 3.01 to be able to work without hanging up Netscape. Acrobat Exchange puts the PHS as the next object after the catalog and the Reader seems to expect it there. I suspect this problem has to do with the fact that the PDF readers effectively remove the PHS from the PDF file and Reader incorrectly calculates the offset if the PHS is where it expects it. Page 257: Items 6 & 7 in Table 9.3. AE always sets these items to 0, even though it appears that these should have a value according to the spec. This table consists of a header section described in Table 9.3, followed by one or more per-page entries, described in Table 9.4. I interpreted this to mean that the half-dozen or so per-page items would be group together and repeated for each page. This is incorrect. First, all item 1s are grouped together into a big bit vector and outputted. Next all item 2s are grouped together into a bit vector and outputted, and so on, until all five items have been generated. I'm not too sure about item 5s since we do not have any documents that have any shared objects. Page 259: Table 9.5, Items 2 and 4. AE always sets item 2 to 16 (base 10). It always sets item 4 to the same value as item 3, even though there are not entries in the Shared Object Group. This table consists of a header section, described in Table 9.5, followed by one or more Shared Object Group entries: the ones for objects located in the first page, followed by the ones for objects located in the Shared Objects section. The entries have the same format in both cases. These entries follow the same weird bit-smashing scheme described above. Page 262: Section 9.4.5 Outline, Thread Info, Dests, and Info hint tables These tables use the generic hint table representations... For the Outline hint table, the object number (item 1) is the object number of the "/Outline" object, but the location (item 2) contains the offset to the first item in the outline, not the object referenced by Item 1! Item 3, the number of objects in the group includes the "Outline" object in the count. In the files produced by AE, Item 4 includes the length of the object following the outline and neglects the length of the original "Outline" object. In our case this is the page content object. There may be more discrepancies, but these are the ones I found when creating a Linearized PDF writer. Hope this helps. We've used the resulting application to produce several thousand linearized PDF files, one of which is about 2100 pages / 162 MB long. We've had no problems in getting Acrobat Reader to digest these files. Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Bentley, Tom [SMTP:Tom.Bentley@Cognos.COM] > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 10:17 AM > To: 'pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com' > Subject: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables > > > ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== > > Has anyone figured out how to create the hint tables (documentation is > sufficiently vague on this) for PDF linearization? Any help would be > greatly appreciated, thanks. > > Tom Bentley > Sr. Consulting Software Engineer > Cognos Inc. > Email: Tom.Bentley@cognos.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- > *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** > + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + > __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + __________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 9 14:26:44 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00530 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:26:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA10026 for pdftex-list; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:55:20 -0500 Received: from csc-sun.math.utah.edu (root@csc-sun.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA10023 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:55:18 -0500 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29699; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:55:11 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA25387; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:55:11 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:55:11 -0700 (MST) To: pdftex@tug.org Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: ["Nai-Tsang Cheng": Re[2]: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables] Message-ID: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Folks, here is a followup on the discrepancies between documentation and implementation of PDF: --------------- Received: from everglades.binc.net (everglades.binc.net [208.155.48.8]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28175 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:51:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by everglades.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA05818; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:50:42 -0600 Received: by everglades.binc.net (bulk_mailer v1.8); Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:46:53 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by everglades.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA05464; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:46:51 -0600 Message-Id: <9811099106.AA910640975@smtp.docucorp.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.20.00.25 Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 14:48:27 -0500 From: "Nai-Tsang Cheng" To: Subject: Re[2]: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: "cc:Mail Note Part" Sender: owner-pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com Reply-To: pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com URL: PDFzone.COM - 'All Things PDF' http://www.pdfzone.com/ Registration: Sub/Unsub http://www.pdfzone.com/resources/lists.html Contact: List Administrator mailto:listowner@pdfzone.com ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== Oh boy, Steve! I wish you have post your message five months ago, so I didn't suffered so much! Addition to your corrections: 1. On page 252 Table 9.2, the key /P is not a requirement. 2. Since Item 7 in Table 9.3 is always set to 0, the Item 4 in Table 9.4 is not needed. 3. The correct order for Table 9.4 is Item 1, 2, 5, 6, 3, and 4 (while item 3 is not needed) 4. As you pointed out, each item should be grouped for all pages before go to next item. This is the same to item 5 and 6. Note that item 6 actually consists 2 items and they also have to follow the grouping rule. 5. On page 259 Table 9.5, the item 4 is the number of shared object entries for Shared Objects Section plus the number of shared object entries for First Page Shared Objects Section. 6. The item 5 in Table 9.5 is always set to 0. That is, item 1 in Table 9.6 is not needed. 7. The correct order of Table 9.6 is Item 2, 3, 1, and 4 (while item 1 is not needed) 8. The outline hint table is not so important, it could be skipped. Nai-Tsang Cheng Docucorp International ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables Author: at INTERNET Date: 11/9/98 1:23 PM ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== Yes. In my experience PDF files produced by Adobe's Exchange do not follow the PDF Specification V 1.2. (November 12, 1996), or perhaps more correctly, Adobe's Acrobat Reader did not like the files my application produced when encoded to my interpretation of the V1.2 spec. Here's my list of discrepancies, keyed to the PDF V1.2 specification page numbers: Page 247: Part 5: Primary Hint Stream (Note: Parts 5 and 6 my be placed in the opposite order) Nope, not if you want Acrobat Reader 3.01 to be able to work without hanging up Netscape. Acrobat Exchange puts the PHS as the next object after the catalog and the Reader seems to expect it there. I suspect this problem has to do with the fact that the PDF readers effectively remove the PHS from the PDF file and Reader incorrectly calculates the offset if the PHS is where it expects it. Page 257: Items 6 & 7 in Table 9.3. AE always sets these items to 0, even though it appears that these should have a value according to the spec. This table consists of a header section described in Table 9.3, followed by one or more per-page entries, described in Table 9.4. I interpreted this to mean that the half-dozen or so per-page items would be group together and repeated for each page. This is incorrect. First, all item 1s are grouped together into a big bit vector and outputted. Next all item 2s are grouped together into a bit vector and outputted, and so on, until all five items have been generated. I'm not too sure about item 5s since we do not have any documents that have any shared objects. Page 259: Table 9.5, Items 2 and 4. AE always sets item 2 to 16 (base 10). It always sets item 4 to the same value as item 3, even though there are not entries in the Shared Object Group. This table consists of a header section, described in Table 9.5, followed by one or more Shared Object Group entries: the ones for objects located in the first page, followed by the ones for objects located in the Shared Objects section. The entries have the same format in both cases. These entries follow the same weird bit-smashing scheme described above. Page 262: Section 9.4.5 Outline, Thread Info, Dests, and Info hint tables These tables use the generic hint table representations... For the Outline hint table, the object number (item 1) is the object number of the "/Outline" object, but the location (item 2) contains the offset to the first item in the outline, not the object referenced by Item 1! Item 3, the number of objects in the group includes the "Outline" object in the count. In the files produced by AE, Item 4 includes the length of the object following the outline and neglects the length of the original "Outline" object. In our case this is the page content object. There may be more discrepancies, but these are the ones I found when creating a Linearized PDF writer. Hope this helps. We've used the resulting application to produce several thousand linearized PDF files, one of which is about 2100 pages / 162 MB long. We've had no problems in getting Acrobat Reader to digest these files. Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Bentley, Tom [SMTP:Tom.Bentley@Cognos.COM] > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 10:17 AM > To: 'pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com' > Subject: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables > > > ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== > > Has anyone figured out how to create the hint tables (documentation is > sufficiently vague on this) for PDF linearization? Any help would be > greatly appreciated, thanks. > > Tom Bentley > Sr. Consulting Software Engineer > Cognos Inc. > Email: Tom.Bentley@cognos.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- > *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** > + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + > __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + __________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 9 14:41:05 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01004 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:40:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA10059 for pdftex-list; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:58:39 -0500 Received: from www.inx.de (root@www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA10056 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:58:37 -0500 Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from n33-175.berlin.snafu.de (195.21.33.175) with smtp id ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:58:21 +0100 (MET) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Hyperref problem with \figure environment From: stk@snafu.de (Stefan Haller) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:58:12 +0100 Message-ID: <1di8s1i.18ejsi8gohecM@n33-175.berlin.snafu.de> Organization: none User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4b3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I'm using hyperref 6.40 and pdftex 0.12q, and Acrobat Reader 3.0 on a Macintosh. I include pictures like this: \begin{figure}[!ht] \centerline{\includegraphics{pict.png}} \caption{\label{x}Caption text} \end{figure} The hyperlinks that are generated (for example in the list of figures, or by references generated with \ref{x}) jump to *after* the picture. More precisely, the page is scrolled so that the baseline of the caption text is exactly at the top margin of the window (you can only see the descenders of the caption text). You have to scroll back to see the figure and the caption. If I put the caption above the picture, it still jumps to the baseline of the caption, so you see at least the picture but not the caption. Anything that can be done about this? -- Stefan Haller Berlin, Germany http://www.snafu.de/~stk/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 9 14:53:55 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA01355 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:53:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA09991 for pdftex-list; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:48:58 -0500 Received: from csc-sun.math.utah.edu (root@csc-sun.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA09985 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:48:22 -0500 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29519; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:48:06 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA25337; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:48:05 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:48:05 -0700 (MST) To: pdftex@tug.org Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: ["Roggencamp,Steve" : RE: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables] Message-ID: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Folks, this message from the PDF Developers list about discrepancies between the documentation of PDF, and its implementation in Adobe Acrobat programs, may be of relevance for pdftex: --------------- Received: from everglades.binc.net (everglades.binc.net [208.155.48.8]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26146 for ; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:28:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (majordom@localhost) by everglades.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA32421; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:26:04 -0600 Received: by everglades.binc.net (bulk_mailer v1.8); Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:23:25 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by everglades.binc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA32249; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:23:24 -0600 Message-Id: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1F897EC@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> From: "Roggencamp,Steve" To: "'pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com'" Subject: RE: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:23:00 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com Reply-To: pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com URL: PDFzone.COM - 'All Things PDF' http://www.pdfzone.com/ Registration: Sub/Unsub http://www.pdfzone.com/resources/lists.html Contact: List Administrator mailto:listowner@pdfzone.com ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== Yes. In my experience PDF files produced by Adobe's Exchange do not follow the PDF Specification V 1.2. (November 12, 1996), or perhaps more correctly, Adobe's Acrobat Reader did not like the files my application produced when encoded to my interpretation of the V1.2 spec. Here's my list of discrepancies, keyed to the PDF V1.2 specification page numbers: Page 247: Part 5: Primary Hint Stream (Note: Parts 5 and 6 my be placed in the opposite order) Nope, not if you want Acrobat Reader 3.01 to be able to work without hanging up Netscape. Acrobat Exchange puts the PHS as the next object after the catalog and the Reader seems to expect it there. I suspect this problem has to do with the fact that the PDF readers effectively remove the PHS from the PDF file and Reader incorrectly calculates the offset if the PHS is where it expects it. Page 257: Items 6 & 7 in Table 9.3. AE always sets these items to 0, even though it appears that these should have a value according to the spec. This table consists of a header section described in Table 9.3, followed by one or more per-page entries, described in Table 9.4. I interpreted this to mean that the half-dozen or so per-page items would be group together and repeated for each page. This is incorrect. First, all item 1s are grouped together into a big bit vector and outputted. Next all item 2s are grouped together into a bit vector and outputted, and so on, until all five items have been generated. I'm not too sure about item 5s since we do not have any documents that have any shared objects. Page 259: Table 9.5, Items 2 and 4. AE always sets item 2 to 16 (base 10). It always sets item 4 to the same value as item 3, even though there are not entries in the Shared Object Group. This table consists of a header section, described in Table 9.5, followed by one or more Shared Object Group entries: the ones for objects located in the first page, followed by the ones for objects located in the Shared Objects section. The entries have the same format in both cases. These entries follow the same weird bit-smashing scheme described above. Page 262: Section 9.4.5 Outline, Thread Info, Dests, and Info hint tables These tables use the generic hint table representations... For the Outline hint table, the object number (item 1) is the object number of the "/Outline" object, but the location (item 2) contains the offset to the first item in the outline, not the object referenced by Item 1! Item 3, the number of objects in the group includes the "Outline" object in the count. In the files produced by AE, Item 4 includes the length of the object following the outline and neglects the length of the original "Outline" object. In our case this is the page content object. There may be more discrepancies, but these are the ones I found when creating a Linearized PDF writer. Hope this helps. We've used the resulting application to produce several thousand linearized PDF files, one of which is about 2100 pages / 162 MB long. We've had no problems in getting Acrobat Reader to digest these files. Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Bentley, Tom [SMTP:Tom.Bentley@Cognos.COM] > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 10:17 AM > To: 'pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com' > Subject: [PDFdev] PDF Linearization and Hint tables > > > ====> Posted to the PDFdev discussion list, hosted by PDFzone.COM <==== > > Has anyone figured out how to create the hint tables (documentation is > sufficiently vague on this) for PDF linearization? Any help would be > greatly appreciated, thanks. > > Tom Bentley > Sr. Consulting Software Engineer > Cognos Inc. > Email: Tom.Bentley@cognos.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- > *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** > + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + > __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ -> PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" <-- *** Sponsorship & Advt. Opportunities Now Available! *** + For more details, REPLY TO mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com + __________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 07:44:44 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26634 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:44:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA12523 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:02:42 -0500 Received: from alpha.ntp.springer.de (alpha.ntp.springer.de [192.129.24.9]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12520 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:02:40 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE by ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE (PMDF V5.1-10 #19300) id <01J40GOSHZG60003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> for pdftex@tug.org; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:02:03 CE Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:02:03 +0000 (CE) From: Joerg Knappen Subject: Parentheses in abstract To: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <01J40GOSI0EG0003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> X-VMS-To: IN%"pdftex@tug.org" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk If this bug is already known, please ignore the following. While using pdflatex from the TeXlive3 CDROM, I encountered the following bug: A pair of parentheses inside the abstract-environment causes the generation of illegal pdf. It can still be viewed by Acrobat Reader 3.0, but cannot be printed. GS reports an error message. A minimal file showing the bug is: \documentclass{article} \begin{document} \begin{abstract} (This document fails) \end{abstract} \end{document} --J"org Knappen From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 08:13:33 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27266 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:13:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA12685 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:32:24 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12682 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:32:20 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA03604; hop 0; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:24:18 GMT Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:32:07 +0000 Received: from lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.7]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00552; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:31:59 GMT Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07084; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:32:04 GMT Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:32:04 GMT Message-Id: <199811101432.OAA07084@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> From: Sebastian Rahtz To: KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract In-Reply-To: <01J40GOSI0EG0003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> References: <01J40GOSI0EG0003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Joerg Knappen writes: > A pair of parentheses inside the abstract-environment causes the generation > of illegal pdf. It can still be viewed by Acrobat Reader 3.0, but cannot be > printed. GS reports an error message. > I cannot reproduce this with current Acrobat. what is the error message from GS? sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 10:03:32 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29973 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:03:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13327 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:28:29 -0500 Received: from xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13324 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:28:24 -0500 Received: from attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (attila [134.99.64.144]) by xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00707; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:27:43 +0100 (MET) Received: by attila.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA15337; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:28:02 +0100 Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:28:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199811101628.RAA15337@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <01J40GOSI0EG0003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> (message from Joerg Knappen on Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:02:03 +0000 (CE)) Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit References: <01J40GOSI0EG0003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > If this bug is already known, please ignore the following. > While using pdflatex from the TeXlive3 CDROM, I encountered the following bug: > A pair of parentheses inside the abstract-environment causes the generation > of illegal pdf. It can still be viewed by Acrobat Reader 3.0, but cannot be > printed. GS reports an error message. I tested it with pdftex-0.12n, the latest version I happen to have installed here. Previewing with Acrobat Reader 3.0 does work. Previewing with gs 5.01 produces errors. Previewing with gs 5.10 does work. (Anybody got gs 5.50 installed?) Printing to file with Acrobat Reader 3.0 does work. Previewing the generated PostScript with gs 5.01 does work. Suggestion: Get the latest version of GhostScript and try again. Cheers, Ulrik. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 10:36:43 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00891 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13433 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:52:28 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13430 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:52:23 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id QAA10522; hop 0; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:44:19 GMT Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:52:09 +0000 Received: from lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.7]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03257; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:51:56 GMT Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA07418; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:52:02 GMT Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:52:02 GMT Message-Id: <199811101652.QAA07418@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> From: Sebastian Rahtz To: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de Cc: KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract In-Reply-To: <199811101628.RAA15337@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> References: <01J40GOSI0EG0003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> <199811101628.RAA15337@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Ulrik Vieth writes: > Printing to file with Acrobat Reader 3.0 does work. > Previewing the generated PostScript with gs 5.01 does work. > > Suggestion: Get the latest version of GhostScript and try again. > I don't think anyone promised that GS would view a PDF file from pdfTeX, especially not older versions. if it does, good; if it doesnt, hard luck. xpdf is probably a better viewer if you dont want to use Acrobat? Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 11:45:39 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02832 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:45:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA13822 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:56:50 -0500 Received: from md2.vsnl.net.in (md2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.6.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA13819 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:56:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (cvr@localhost) by md2.vsnl.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA25185; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:37:48 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:37:48 +0530 (IST) From: RADHAKRISHNAN C V To: Ulrik Vieth cc: KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract In-Reply-To: <199811101628.RAA15337@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Ulrik Vieth wrote: > > > If this bug is already known, please ignore the following. > > While using pdflatex from the TeXlive3 CDROM, I encountered the following bug: > > > A pair of parentheses inside the abstract-environment causes the generation > > of illegal pdf. It can still be viewed by Acrobat Reader 3.0, but cannot be > > printed. GS reports an error message. > > I tested it with pdftex-0.12n, the latest version I happen to have > installed here. > > Previewing with Acrobat Reader 3.0 does work. > Previewing with gs 5.01 produces errors. > Previewing with gs 5.10 does work. > (Anybody got gs 5.50 installed?) i tried with gs 5.50. it works, no porblems. radhakrishnan From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 13:05:26 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04958 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:04:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA14156 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:38:18 -0500 Received: from www.inx.de (root@www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA14153 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:38:16 -0500 Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from n246-170.berlin.snafu.de (195.21.246.170) with smtp id ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:38:13 +0100 (MET) To: pdftex@tug.org In-Reply-To: <13896.10630.268741.382076@srahtz> Subject: Re: Hyperref problem with \figure environment From: stk@snafu.de (Stefan Haller) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:38:03 +0100 Message-ID: <1diamzn.psehgegpw71jM@n246-170.berlin.snafu.de> Organization: none User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4b3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk (I'm not sure if it was intentional that you only sent this to me privately and not to the list. I hope you don't mind my quoting your reply here.) Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > well, they have to jump to the caption, you will appreciate. who knows > where the picture itself is, unless you make it an anchor? No idea, I don't know enough about the inner workings of LaTeX; I just thought it might be possible to figure out where the \figure environment starts. Can anybody suggest a way to do this? I wouldn't mind having to insert extra stuff at the beginning of each figure (a \hypertarget or whatever would be necessary), and I don't really need a working lof either, just the crossrefs. But these would have to be able to refer to the figure number. > > More precisely, the page is scrolled so that the baseline of the caption > > text is exactly at the top margin of the window (you can only see the > > descenders of the caption text). You have to scroll back to see the > I know what you mean, i see this sometimes. but not always, so i have > never pinned it down. maybe others have some advice? It happens always for me, for each and every figure. -- Stefan Haller Berlin, Germany http://www.snafu.de/~stk/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 13:08:13 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05026 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA14111 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:29:33 -0500 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA14108 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:29:25 -0500 Received: from nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu (ats@nb22-pool-15.wustl.edu [128.252.113.15]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA30833; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:28:20 -0600 (CST) Received: (from ats@localhost) by nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06294; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:27:52 -0600 To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de, KNAPPEN@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract References: <01J40GOSI0EG0003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> <199811101628.RAA15337@attila.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199811101652.QAA07418@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> From: Alan Shutko Date: 10 Nov 1998 13:27:51 -0600 In-Reply-To: Sebastian Rahtz's message of "Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:52:02 GMT" Message-ID: Lines: 10 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "S" == Sebastian Rahtz writes: S> xpdf is probably a better viewer if you dont want to use Acrobat? xpdf doesn't use embedded fonts, or indeed any fonts which are guaranteed to resemble those in the document. -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted Wisdom is learning what to overlook. -- William James From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 13:42:29 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05880 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:42:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14456 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:14:21 -0500 Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14452 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:14:18 -0500 Received: from aa056@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <39614-667>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:14:16 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:14:16 -0400 (AST) From: George White To: Joerg Knappen cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract In-Reply-To: <01J40GOSI0EG0003GP@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Using pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12o-6-tiff3 (Web2C 7.2), the document can be viewed with NeXT PDFview, gs 5.50, and even Acrobat Reader 3.0 for OS/2. printing from PDFview or Acrobat Reader 3 for OS/2 fails. -- George White Halifax, Nova Scotia On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Joerg Knappen wrote: > If this bug is already known, please ignore the following. > > While using pdflatex from the TeXlive3 CDROM, I encountered the following bug: > > A pair of parentheses inside the abstract-environment causes the generation > of illegal pdf. It can still be viewed by Acrobat Reader 3.0, but cannot be > printed. GS reports an error message. > > A minimal file showing the bug is: > > \documentclass{article} > \begin{document} > \begin{abstract} > (This document fails) > \end{abstract} > \end{document} > > --J"org Knappen From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 13:47:33 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05987 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:47:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14444 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:14:06 -0500 Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14441 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:14:02 -0500 Received: from prime (ts010p2.tlv.netvision.net.il [199.203.200.184]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id WAA02967 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:10:00 +0200 (IST) From: "Ziv Caspi" To: Subject: Colored text spanning pages problem Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:20:00 +0200 Message-ID: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello. I have the following problem: When using hyperref with pdflatex, if a colored paragraph (a paragraph whose text color is set to something other than the default) happens to be set on multiple pages, the color information is lost during the page break. I raised the same question (a while ago) on comp.text.tex, and was kindely answered (by David Carlisle) that this is a known problem with pdftex. Is there any way to solve this problem? TIA, Ziv Caspi. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 10 13:57:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06238 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:57:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA14641 for pdftex-list; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:26:13 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14638 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:26:10 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14008 for ; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:26:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA19337 for pdftex@tug.cs.umb.edu; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:26:06 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811102026.VAA19337@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract In-Reply-To: <199811101652.QAA07418@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> from Sebastian Rahtz at "Nov 10, 98 04:52:02 pm" To: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:26:06 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I don't think anyone promised that GS would view a PDF file from > pdfTeX, especially not older versions. if it does, good; if it > doesnt, hard luck. > > xpdf is probably a better viewer if you dont want to use Acrobat? I've tested DocuPlus (http://www.zeon.com.tw/), it looks very good. The problem is its availability for Win32 platform only. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 11 07:58:35 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27266 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:58:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA21012 for pdftex-list; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:28:07 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA21009 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:28:00 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.31]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA31F2; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:27:41 +0100 Message-ID: <364981A4.94BD3238@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:23:00 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ziv Caspi CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem References: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Ziv Caspi wrote: > (by David Carlisle) that this is a known problem with pdftex. Is there any This is in now way related to pdftex. Things that work in in dvi/pdfmarks also work in pdftex. There is probably something wrong with your macros. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 11 07:58:35 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27266 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:58:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA21012 for pdftex-list; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:28:07 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA21009 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:28:00 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.31]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA31F2; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:27:41 +0100 Message-ID: <364981A4.94BD3238@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:23:00 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ziv Caspi CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem References: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Ziv Caspi wrote: > (by David Carlisle) that this is a known problem with pdftex. Is there any This is in now way related to pdftex. Things that work in in dvi/pdfmarks also work in pdftex. There is probably something wrong with your macros. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 07:28:47 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27335 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:28:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA21448 for pdftex-list; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:55:15 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA19686 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:41:58 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-8-47.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.109]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA26078 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:41:52 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36496C2E.A307C2FE@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:51:26 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Re: Hyperref problem with \figure environment References: <1di8s1i.18ejsi8gohecM@n33-175.berlin.snafu.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Haller wrote: > > I'm using hyperref 6.40 and pdftex 0.12q, and Acrobat Reader 3.0 on a > Macintosh. > > I include pictures like this: > > \begin{figure}[!ht] > \centerline{\includegraphics{pict.png}} > \caption{\label{x}Caption text} > \end{figure} > > The hyperlinks that are generated (for example in the list of figures, > or by references generated with \ref{x}) jump to *after* the picture. > More precisely, the page is scrolled so that the baseline of the caption > text is exactly at the top margin of the window (you can only see the > descenders of the caption text). You have to scroll back to see the > figure and the caption. > > If I put the caption above the picture, it still jumps to the baseline > of the caption, so you see at least the picture but not the caption. > > Anything that can be done about this? > > -- > Stefan Haller > Berlin, Germany > http://www.snafu.de/~stk/ I have also noted this phenomenon and found it slightly inconvenient. For example, using pdftex primitives directly, if your tex file includes something like this Here is a picture \pdfdest name {Picture} fith \pdfimage image.png I hope you like it. then the link destination seems to end up immediately below the line in which the \pdfdest appears, so that acroreader jumps to just below the thing you actually want to see. I've got a feeling that pdftex 0.11 was different in this regard. I've rewritten all my stuff so that the link destinations are inserted before the corresponding diagrams; however, I think it would be more desirable if pdftex would set the link destinations to the upper left corner of the box that contains \pdfdest. Bob From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 07:45:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27661 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:45:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA21012 for pdftex-list; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:28:07 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA21009 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:28:00 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.31]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA31F2; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:27:41 +0100 Message-ID: <364981A4.94BD3238@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:23:00 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ziv Caspi CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem References: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Ziv Caspi wrote: > (by David Carlisle) that this is a known problem with pdftex. Is there any This is in now way related to pdftex. Things that work in in dvi/pdfmarks also work in pdftex. There is probably something wrong with your macros. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 07:59:11 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27921 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:59:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11405 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:22:40 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11402 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:22:37 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA14622; hop 0; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:14:32 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:22:16 +0000 Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:20:48 +0000 Message-ID: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q) From: Sebastian Rahtz To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I just installed hyperref 6.42 on CTAN. I announce it here because it has an important extension to the writing of bookmarks and document info fields; this is basically the work of Heiko Oberdiek which I merged in. It defines a new encoding, PD1, and provides pd1enc.def (note! remember to install). Stuff destined for bookmarks or Author/Title fields is mangled to fit PDFDocEncoding. I slightly worry that some documents will die, but I think the change is necessary and worthwhile. See test0 for some demos. One non-obvious feature is that you can have variant text for the bookmarks, eg \subsubsection{A subsubsection \ifPDFbookmark a+b \else $a+b$\fi} There is one gotcha. due to fairly fundamental `features' in keyval and latex, this: \usepackage[pdfauthor=\c C\"asar M\"uller]{hyperref} will not work, but this: \usepackage{hyperref} \hypersetup{pdfauthor=\c C\"asar M\"uller} will. so make a habit of using \hypersetup instead of package options if you do this sort of thing. what will break in the package option method, I am not sure, so be warned. please note that I am off for 10 days on Saturday, so if it all falls to pieces, revert to the previous version :-} Sebastian PS I (and I expect Heiko too) would not be surprised if some details of PD1 encoding were 100% right. please report funnies. I already caught Heiko using the macro \textfraction. now think to yourself what happens if you call \textfraction by mistake... From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 08:17:31 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28349 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:17:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA20999 for pdftex-list; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:27:14 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA20996 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:27:08 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.31]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA67AC; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:26:51 +0100 Message-ID: <364967A3.DD06D669@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:32:03 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh CC: PDFTEX Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract References: <199811102026.VAA19337@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh wrote: > > I don't think anyone promised that GS would view a PDF file from > > pdfTeX, especially not older versions. if it does, good; if it > > doesnt, hard luck. > > > > xpdf is probably a better viewer if you dont want to use Acrobat? > > I've tested DocuPlus (http://www.zeon.com.tw/), it looks very good. The > problem is its availability for Win32 platform only. The last time I tested that one, there was no form support and no hinting/anti aliasing. Sometimes documents cannot be read. Nevertheless, they had a chinese etc pdf viewers before adobe got them. How (totally) free is this viewer? Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 08:23:16 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28503 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:23:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA19605 for pdftex-list; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:35:17 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA19601 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:35:14 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA26872; hop 0; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:27:10 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:35:02 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13897.26012.488800.20003@srahtz> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:23:24 +0000 (GMT) To: stk@snafu.de Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Hyperref problem with \figure environment In-Reply-To: <1diamzn.psehgegpw71jM@n246-170.berlin.snafu.de> References: <13896.10630.268741.382076@srahtz> <1diamzn.psehgegpw71jM@n246-170.berlin.snafu.de> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Haller writes: > No idea, I don't know enough about the inner workings of LaTeX; I just > thought it might be possible to figure out where the \figure environment > starts. > and what if the figure environment has 4 pictures each with their own captions? there is no identifier for the figure as a whole. > Can anybody suggest a way to do this? I wouldn't mind having to insert > extra stuff at the beginning of each figure (a \hypertarget or whatever > would be necessary), and I don't really need a working lof either, just > the crossrefs. But these would have to be able to refer to the figure > number. the figure number is not known until after the caption has been processed! sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 08:38:49 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28890 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:38:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA19599 for pdftex-list; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:35:10 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA19594 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:35:04 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA26849; hop 0; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:26:59 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:34:52 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13897.25747.724322.271749@srahtz> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:18:59 +0000 (GMT) To: zivca@netvision.net.il Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem In-Reply-To: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> References: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Ziv Caspi writes: > I have the following problem: When using hyperref with pdflatex, if a > colored paragraph (a paragraph whose text color is set to > something other than the default)happens to > be set on multiple pages, the color information is lost during the page > break. "the problem is solvable, but unsolved" probably reflects the truth. it could be tacked in macros, or in TeX itself, but neither David Carlisle nor Thanh (the obvious contenders in the two fields) have had the energy/time to really attack the problem again. apologies if I misrepresent them. Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 08:40:44 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28931 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:40:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11830 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:06:50 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11827 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:06:46 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id PAA28272; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:05:23 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:05:23 GMT Message-Id: <199811121505.PAA28272@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pragma@wxs.nl CC: zivca@netvision.net.il, pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <364981A4.94BD3238@wxs.nl> (message from Hans Hagen on Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:23:00 +0100) Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem References: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> <364981A4.94BD3238@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans > This is in no way related to pdftex. Things that work in in > dvi/pdfmarks also work in pdftex. There is probably something wrong with > your macros. dvips maintains a colour stack in the driver separate from the postscript stack in the generated output, it then provides specific push and pop \special commands to manipulate this stack. pdftex chose not to implement this style of stack. (I discussed this with Thanh at a very early stage, in fact I think it was that email discussion that caused Sebastian to start up this email list) In theory it may be possible to correctly code colours over floating inserts using TeX marks (I think that's what you do in context?) but I do not think it is possible to do that in latex without breaking too many existing uses of \mark. So I chose not to do that and so sometimes pdftex will `lose' the correct colour at page boundaries. The situation would be different if pdftex were to get etex extended multiple marks, as then you would be able to code in this functionality without breaking existing code. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 08:57:33 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA29430 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA05013 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:27:15 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA05009 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:27:10 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21974; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:27:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA02229; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:27:06 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811120727.IAA02229@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem In-Reply-To: <13897.25747.724322.271749@srahtz> from Sebastian Rahtz at "Nov 11, 98 10:18:59 am" To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:27:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Ziv Caspi writes: > > I have the following problem: When using hyperref with pdflatex, if a > > colored paragraph (a paragraph whose text color is set to > > something other than the default)happens to > > be set on multiple pages, the color information is lost during the page > > break. > > "the problem is solvable, but unsolved" probably reflects the > truth. it could be tacked in macros, or in TeX itself, but neither > David Carlisle nor Thanh (the obvious contenders in the two fields) > have had the energy/time to really attack the problem again. apologies if I > misrepresent them. I am working on merging pdftex and etex. When it's done (hopefully soon), it should solve the above problem Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:09:37 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29776 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:09:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12362 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:31:55 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12358 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:31:53 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:29:03 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA29939; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:28:36 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:28:36 +0000 (GMT) To: Sebastian Rahtz CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks In-Reply-To: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian wrote -- > It defines a new encoding, PD1, and provides pd1enc.def > (note! remember to install). Stuff destined for bookmarks or > Author/Title fields is mangled to fit PDFDocEncoding. This will not endear you to Them (aka in other circles as The Cannons) Even if this is the best latexxie approach to such PDFie things, it should probably get a name beginning with E for now and maybe even the exalted status of a T number at some stage. As you may have noticed, I am suggesting that such PDFie things should be handled by pdftex, not by macros, and not by a mechanism intended only for typeset output. > \usepackage[pdfauthor=\c C\"asar M\"uller]{hyperref} > > will not work, but this: > > \usepackage{hyperref} > \hypersetup{pdfauthor=\c C\"asar M\"uller} Having made enough enemies already, I am reluctant to point out that putting key=value in the package option is a technique invented in Sebastian's Bizarre Bazaar and not guaranteed to work for anything at all (but it often does). > so make a habit of using \hypersetup instead of package options ALWAYS...until we can, with Sebastian's help, guarantee that the option methods work. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:20:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00063 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:20:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12707 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:49:15 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA05341 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:47:36 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23224 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:47:31 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA03180 for pdftex@tug.cs.umb.edu; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:47:31 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811120747.IAA03180@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: pdftex-0.12r To: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:47:30 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, pdftex-0.12r has been released (sources only). Binaries will be added later. In the end I had to give up the magic game with TTF on Win32. Unless Acrobat on Win32 uses it owns TTF render, the problem is depended on how Window handles TTF. I don't consider to do anything more with that. There was a bug in T1 handling font in pdftex-0.12q (some fonts don't print). Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:31:37 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00360 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:31:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12711 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:49:18 -0500 Received: from alpha.ntp.springer.de (alpha.ntp.springer.de [192.129.24.9]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA24795 for ; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:00:13 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE by ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE (PMDF V5.1-10 #19300) id <01J4215MFK4G00047Y@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> for pdftex@tug.org; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:59:39 CE Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 17:59:39 +0000 (CE) From: Joerg Knappen Subject: Re: Parentheses in abstract To: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <01J4215MFNW200047Y@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> X-VMS-To: IN%"pdftex@tug.org" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I find it rather annoying, that there are difficulties to reproduce the problem I described. Both Acrobat Reader 3.0 and gs 5.10 failed exactly, iff there was a pair of parens in the abstract and worked fine when there wasn't. The setup is a pure TeXLive3 setup, no local configurations to pdftex and pdflatex were done. I used gs 5.10 only in order to have a pear programme after printing via Acrobat Reader (on Windows 95, called from Netscape) failed. After all, the pdf file generated and the log file are now available for further inspectio under http://www.zdv.uni-mainz.de/~knappen/test2.pdf http://www.zdv.uni-mainz.de/~knappen/test2.log Thanks for all the help and suggestion, not all of which I could already apply. --J"org Knappen From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:31:57 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00372 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:31:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12905 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:54:41 -0500 Received: from top.coli.uni-sb.de (IDENT:sJTXcdu/nJuIUfvt6uYODT8oDBA+HJmt@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA12902 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:54:39 -0500 Received: from top (crysmann@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by top.coli.uni-sb.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA13788 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:54:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <364B04B5.4F1B@coli.uni-sb.de> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:54:29 +0100 From: Berthold Crysmann Organization: Graduiertenkolleg Kognitionswissenschaft, Universitaet des Saarlandes X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <13899.665.127099.773334@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > indeed. i expect an Omega OTP would work a treat for this > purpose. this, like my life work, is a short-term hack > BTW, are there any plans to merge pdfTeX and Omega in the foreseeable future? Berthold -- Berthold Crysmann Universitaet des Saarlandes, Computerlinguistik Geb. 17.2, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken Tel. +49-681-302-4502 / Fax +49-681-302-4700 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:38:24 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00573 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:38:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13016 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:05:54 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13009 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:05:50 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id QAA28202; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:05:29 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:05:29 GMT Message-Id: <199811121605.QAA28202@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org CC: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk In-reply-to: <199811120727.IAA02229@anxur.fi.muni.cz> (message from Han The Thanh on Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:27:06 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem References: <199811120727.IAA02229@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I am working on merging pdftex and etex. When it's done (hopefully soon), > it should solve the above problem Ah, interesting! Of course it only solves the problem of getting extra mark functionality without breaking existing code. It does not automatically solve the problem at hand re colours. For that, `someone' has to recode the latex colour package to use marks. I am still not completely convinced that a solution based on marks can get as many cases right as a solution based on a dvips-style stack, however we shall see... It will certainly be possible to get a lot more cases right than currently happens though. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:39:01 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00583 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:38:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12606 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:45:01 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA12603 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:45:00 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id PAA18863; hop 0; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:36:54 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:44:45 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13899.665.127099.773334@srahtz> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:45:29 +0000 (GMT) To: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks In-Reply-To: <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley writes: > > It defines a new encoding, PD1, and provides pd1enc.def .. > This will not endear you to Them (aka in other circles as The Cannons) my nearest priest gave me an implicit indulgence > Even if this is the best latexxie approach to such PDFie things, it > should probably get a name beginning with E for now and maybe even the > exalted status of a T number at some stage. shall I changed to EPD1? fine by me > As you may have noticed, I am suggesting that such PDFie things should > be handled by pdftex, not by macros, and not by a mechanism intended > only for typeset output. indeed. i expect an Omega OTP would work a treat for this purpose. this, like my life work, is a short-term hack > Having made enough enemies already, I am reluctant to point out that > putting key=value in the package option is a technique invented in > Sebastian's Bizarre Bazaar and not guaranteed to work for anything at > all (but it often does). often enough to make some people happy. what more could I ask? Chris and the other Bishops can at least rest assured that when better things come along, i'll switch to using them.... Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:55:19 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00978 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:55:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13334 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:19:40 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13330 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:19:38 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id QAA20791; hop 0; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:11:32 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:19:16 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13899.2625.288149.857074@srahtz> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:18:09 +0000 (GMT) To: crysmann@coli.uni-sb.de Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks In-Reply-To: <364B04B5.4F1B@coli.uni-sb.de> References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <13899.665.127099.773334@srahtz> <364B04B5.4F1B@coli.uni-sb.de> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Berthold Crysmann writes: > > indeed. i expect an Omega OTP would work a treat for this .... > BTW, are there any plans to merge pdfTeX and Omega in the foreseeable > future? > Unless I misunderstand PDF, its still 8 bit, isnt it? not Unicode? not sure if Omega could grok this or not. it has its own dvi format, doesnt it? lovely idea... sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:55:43 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01004 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:55:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13045 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:06:39 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13041 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:06:37 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id PAA19995; hop 0; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:58:31 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:06:20 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13899.1811.427279.487059@srahtz> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:04:35 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org cc: wdb@math.psu.edu Subject: Printing problem In-Reply-To: <199811121549.KAA12720@tug.org> References: <199811121549.KAA12720@tug.org> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk (passed on. Dale, you have to be a member of the list to post to it) sebastian > From: W Dale Brownawell > Received: (wdb@localhost) by kummer.math.psu.edu (8.8.8/8.6.9) id NAA11129; Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:16:27 -0500 (EST) > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:16:27 -0500 (EST) > Message-Id: <199811111816.NAA11129@kummer.math.psu.edu> > To: pdftex@tug.org > Subject: > X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII > > We're trying to get pdftex running in the department. We have > successfully texed and printed latex documents, but we have run into a > snag with the amsppt style under amstex. > > If we process the following minimal file using amstex and then distill > it to obtain a pdf file, acroread will display and print the pdf file, > using a font whose encoding is given as custom. > > If we process the file using pdftex, acroread will display it, but not > print it. When we ask acroread what font it is using, it says that it > is using a font whose encoding is given as built-in. > > We are using Type 1 scalable fonts. > > Can anybody give us advice on what we can do to get pdftex running > reliably? > > Thanks, > Dale Brownawell & > Karl Voss > > Here is the tex file: > > \input amstex > \documentstyle{amsppt} > \nologo > \NoPageNumbers > > \topmatter > \abstract > \endabstract > \endtopmatter > > \document > \enddocument > > > > > From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 09:55:51 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00998 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:55:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13516 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:25:30 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13512 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:25:28 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id QAA23640; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:24:30 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:24:30 GMT Message-Id: <199811121624.QAA23640@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org, C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk In-reply-to: <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> (message from Chris Rowley on Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:28:36 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > This will not endear you to Them (aka in other circles as The Cannons) Even though one of Them once suggested basically this approach to him (although never implemented it properly)? > As you may have noticed, I am suggesting that such PDFie things should > be handled by pdftex, not by macros, and what to do for standard-tex -> dvi -> ps -> pdf route? > and not by a mechanism intended only for typeset output. Although that would of course clean things up greatly. > Having made enough enemies already, I am reluctant to point out that > putting key=value in the package option is a technique invented in > Sebastian's Bizarre Bazaar and not guaranteed to work for anything at > all (but it often does). I believe that it was implemented by a cleric while out and about away >From his cathedral one day. It probably does not do what you are think it is doing (unless you've looked at the code). David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 10:09:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01356 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:09:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13559 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:26:51 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA13556 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:26:49 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:23:04 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA29999; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:22:37 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:22:37 +0000 (GMT) To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks In-Reply-To: <13899.665.127099.773334@srahtz> References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <13899.665.127099.773334@srahtz> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13899.2177.109276.9540@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian wrote -- > shall I changed to EPD1? fine by me Sounds sensible to me, as it does not introduce another, possibly unneeded, first letter. I shall look at the enc.def file sometime to see if it could/should be a Tn. > indeed. i expect an Omega OTP would work a treat for this > purpose. Now there is an interesting idea: someone should write a pdfomega (instantly:-) so we can test it out on this. Which reminds me, does your bload-oath to Adobe permit you to reveal whether the PDF language is ever likely to have some form of support for 16-bit character/glyph sets? chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 10:19:14 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01612 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:19:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13694 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:31:56 -0500 Received: from aida.inet.cz (root@aida.inet.cz [194.196.192.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13686 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:31:51 -0500 Received: from SnowWhite.inet.cz (IDENT:pavel@SnowWhite.inet.cz [194.196.192.9]) by aida.inet.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA25156 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:31:24 +0100 Received: (from pavel@localhost) by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA25063; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:31:03 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Printing problem References: <199811121549.KAA12720@tug.org> <13899.1811.427279.487059@srahtz> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.1.125 on Intel, Linux 2.0.32 on SPARC Organization: INET a.s., Kralovopolska 139, Brno, 60112, Czech Republic X-URL-PGP: http://www.inet.cz/~pjanik X-Phone: +420 5 41321276 ext. 171, +420 5 41321251 ext. 17 X-Spam: No unsolicited e-mail. 500 dollars per message proof-reading for unsolicited e-mail. X-Not-Receiving-Mail-From: mrp.cz, hotmail.com, post.cz, email.cz, usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 From: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: 12 Nov 1998 17:31:01 +0100 In-Reply-To: Sebastian Rahtz's message of Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:04:35 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk From: Sebastian Rahtz Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:04:35 +0000 (GMT) Hi, > > If we process the file using pdftex, acroread will display it, but not > > print it. When we ask acroread what font it is using, it says that it > > is using a font whose encoding is given as built-in. > > > > We are using Type 1 scalable fonts. this was a bug of pdftex - hopefully solved in the latest greatest :-) -- Pavel Janík ml. Pavel.Janik@inet.cz From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 10:32:21 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01960 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:32:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13995 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:53:05 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA13990 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:53:02 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:35:49 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00024; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:35:21 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:35:21 +0000 (GMT) To: David Carlisle Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks In-Reply-To: <199811121624.QAA23640@nag.co.uk> References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <199811121624.QAA23640@nag.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13899.3092.596255.43429@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote -- > > > As you may have noticed, I am suggesting that such PDFie things should > > be handled by pdftex, not by macros, > > and what to do for standard-tex -> dvi -> ps -> pdf route? Not made here:-). When I introduced this heretical idea I said that: a: this was something not in standard TeX, but probably should be in etex if it seem to be the right approach for pdftex; b: it would still need a high-level interace and hence some macros. Clearly anything that supports both standard-tex and pdf-tex-only primitives with the same user-interface must have some macros in it. My question was whether the actual text characters should be expanded implicitly by pdftex, rather than explicitly by a macro-writer. > > > and not by a mechanism intended only for typeset output. > > Although that would of course clean things up greatly. What is "that" here? > > > Having made enough enemies already, I am reluctant to point out that > > putting key=value in the package option is a technique invented in > > Sebastian's Bizarre Bazaar and not guaranteed to work for anything at > > all (but it often does). > > I believe that it was implemented by a cleric while out and about away > from his cathedral one day. It probably does not do what you are think > it is doing (unless you've looked at the code). As intructed by the Grand Inquisitor, I did look at the code: it essentially does nothing, maybe that is why it works so well! chris PS: what makes you think I think? From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 10:32:33 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01968 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14192 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:07:59 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA14187 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:07:55 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:53:50 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA00082; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:53:22 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:53:22 +0000 (GMT) To: David Carlisle Cc: pdftex@tug.org, s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem In-Reply-To: <199811121605.QAA28202@nag.co.uk> References: <199811120727.IAA02229@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <199811121605.QAA28202@nag.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13899.4560.319002.378163@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David wrote -- > > Ah, interesting! Of course it only solves the problem of getting extra > mark functionality without breaking existing code. > > It does not automatically solve the problem at hand re colours. I do not think that multiple marks were designed to support text colour. They may (or may not) be able to do so but that is no reason not to build in colour support into the right place (the e(pdf)tex executable). chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 10:36:51 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02097 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:36:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14097 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:02:55 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA14094 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:02:53 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id RAA28414; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:02:32 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:02:32 GMT Message-Id: <199811121702.RAA28414@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <199811121624.QAA23640@nag.co.uk> (message from David Carlisle on Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:24:30 GMT) Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <199811121624.QAA23640@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk those of you on pdftex list but not on latex-l may wonder why Chris is talking in terms of churches.... there's been a `lively' discussion of latex development paths based around this article which suggests two different styles of program development: http://www.redhat.com/redhat/cathedral-bazaar/ David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 10:41:59 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02199 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:41:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14156 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:07:13 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA14152 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:07:11 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id RAA23562; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:05:19 GMT Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:05:19 GMT Message-Id: <199811121705.RAA23562@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk CC: pdftex@tug.org, s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk In-reply-to: <13899.4560.319002.378163@fell.open.ac.uk> (message from Chris Rowley on Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:53:22 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem References: <199811120727.IAA02229@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <199811121605.QAA28202@nag.co.uk> <13899.4560.319002.378163@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > They may (or may not) be able to do so but that is no reason > not to build in colour support into the right place (the e(pdf)tex > executable). That was my original line too, but Thanh seemed to be against it, and he has the controlling hand here:-) David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 10:55:04 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02536 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:54:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14412 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:14:04 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA14409 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:14:02 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:13:46 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA00136 for pdftex@tug.org; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:13:19 GMT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <199811121705.RAA23562@nag.co.uk> References: <199811120727.IAA02229@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <199811121605.QAA28202@nag.co.uk> <13899.4560.319002.378163@fell.open.ac.uk> <199811121705.RAA23562@nag.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13899.5744.948227.274457@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Chris Rowley To: David Carlisle Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:12:08 +0000 (GMT) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David wrote -- > > > They may (or may not) be able to do so but that is no reason > > not to build in colour support into the right place (the e(pdf)tex > > executable). > > That was my original line too, but Thanh seemed to be against it, and he > has the controlling hand here:-) He does not if etex is also involved: it is certainly on some etex v128.3a notes I have seen:-). chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 11:37:56 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03657 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:37:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA14951 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:57:39 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA14947 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:57:37 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:57:28 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA00266; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:57:00 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:57:00 +0000 (GMT) To: David Carlisle Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks In-Reply-To: <199811121702.RAA28414@nag.co.uk> References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <199811121624.QAA23640@nag.co.uk> <199811121702.RAA28414@nag.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13899.8427.465445.674514@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote -- > > those of you on pdftex list but not on latex-l may wonder why > Chris is talking in terms of churches.... > > there's been a `lively' discussion of latex development paths based > around this article which suggests two different styles of program > development: > > http://www.redhat.com/redhat/cathedral-bazaar/ The article is well worth reading (I just finished a proper read of it) and is also relevant to (indeed, far more relevant to) the development of TeX extensions. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 11:51:18 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA03965 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:51:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA15067 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:07:01 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken76.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15064 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:06:59 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.152]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA14971 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:06:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <364B24E3.850106D5@apl.washington.edu> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:11:47 -0800 From: Jody Klymak X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: pdfTeX-FAQ-0.10.txt References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <199811121624.QAA23640@nag.co.uk> <199811121702.RAA28414@nag.co.uk> <13899.8427.465445.674514@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------149E90CA3B2AB8EAAEFEF8A3" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------149E90CA3B2AB8EAAEFEF8A3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Attached is the latest version of the FAQ. It should be available soon at http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/ in PDF form (of course). Keep sending in submissions so we can improve the knowledge base... Cheers, Jody -- Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, Doctoral Candidate University of Washington mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu (206)-685-9080 http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ --------------149E90CA3B2AB8EAAEFEF8A3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="pdfTeX-FAQ-0.10.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="pdfTeX-FAQ-0.10.txt" The pdfTeX FAQ Version 0.10 Maintained by: Jody M. Klymak mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu November 12, 1998 Abstract This document is a preliminary version of pdfTeX's frequently asked questions (FAQ) and answers. If you can contribute to this document, please mail Jody Klymak (mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu) or pdf- TeX's mailing list (mailto:pdftex@tug.org). Including the key FAQ in the subject line of your contribution will help the FAQ maintainer stay organized. This document is in TeX syntax. The character set is ISO-8859-2. OcThis document is freely distributable. Contents 1 General 3 1.1 TeX and PDF . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1.1.1 What is pdfTeX? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1.1.2 What is TeX? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1.1.3 What is PDF? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1.1.4 How can I view a PDF file? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1.2 Authors . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 4 1.2.1 Who is the author of pdfTeX? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 Information 4 2.1 Locations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 4 2.1.1 Where can I find pdfTeX? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2.1.2 What is the latest version? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2.1.3 Where can I find some docs about pdfTeX? . . . . . . . 5 2.1.4 Is there a pdfTeX mailing list? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1 2.1.5 Where can I find an archive of the pdfTeX mailing list? . 6 2.1.6 How do I get new versions of this FAQ? . . . . . . . . . 6 2.1.7 How do I contribute to this FAQ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 Installation 7 3.1 General Installation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .* * 7 3.1.1 How do I install the latest version of pdfTeX? . . . . . . 7 3.1.2 How do I use pdflatex (how to generate pdflatex.fmt)? . . 7 3.1.3 Why use pdflatex vs (??? i.e. latex2html)? . . . . . . . . 7 3.1.4 How do I compress my PDF files? . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3.1.5 What can I do with this pdftex.cfg file? . . . . . . . . . . 7 3.1.6 How can I make a document portable to both latex and pdflatex . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 7 4 Fonts in pdfTeX 8 4.1 Fonts in general . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 8 4.1.1 What kind of fonts can I use? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 4.2 Type1 fonts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 8 4.2.1 How do I use Type1 fonts? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 4.2.2 How do I generate TFM files for Type1 fonts? . . . . . . 8 4.3 TrueType fonts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 8 4.3.1 How do I use TrueType fonts? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 4.3.2 How do I generate TFM files for TrueType fonts? . . . . 8 4.4 pk fonts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 8 4.4.1 How do I use pk fonts? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 4.4.2 Why does Acrobat Reader display pk fonts so poorly? . . 8 5 Graphics 8 5.1 Graphics in general . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 8 5.1.1 How do I include pictures in pdfLaTeX? . . . . . . . . . 8 5.2 Vector Formats . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 9 5.2.1 How do I include PDF pictures? . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 5.2.2 How do I include EPS pictures? . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 5.2.3 How do I convert an EPS figure to PDF? . . . . . . . . . 9 5.2.4 Why doesn't my pdf picture show up when I include it? . 10 5.3 Bitmap Formats . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 5.3.1 How do I include TIFF pictures? . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 5.4 Other Graphics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * *11 5.4.1 How can I use MetaPost in pdfTeX? . . . . . . . . . . . 11 2 6 Miscellaneous 11 6.1 Kpathsea . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 11 6.1.1 What is this kpathsea? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 6.2 Hyperref . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . * * 11 6.2.1 What is hyperref? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 6.2.2 How can I use it? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 6.2.3 My pdftex.cfg says to use A4 paper, but the document comes out in Letter format. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 6.2.4 I get the message: "Warning (ext1): destination with the same identifier already exists!" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 6.3 ConTeXt . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 6.3.1 What is ConTeXt? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 6.3.2 How can I use ConTeXt? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 A Contributors 12 1 General 1.1 TeX and PDF 1.1.1 What is pdfTeX? pdfTeX is a variant of well known typesetting program of prof. Donald E. Knuth - TeX. Output of Knuth's TeX is a file in DVI format. The difference between TeX and pdfTeX is that pdfTeX directly generates PDF. You can also create PDF with Adobe's Distiller program, using a DVI to PostScript program to create PS from TeX's DVI file. WARNING: pdfTeX is alpha software! 1.1.2 What is TeX? >From `TeX - The Program' by Donald E. Knuth: "This is TeX, a document com- piler intended to produce typesetting of high quality". TeX is a batch oriented typesetting system. When we talk about TeX we mean the macro programming language as well as the program that interprets and executed this language. 1.1.3 What is PDF? This question is answered in the Adobe Systems' document Portable Document Format Reference Manual available at http://www.adobe.com/supportservice/ 3 devrelations/PDFS/TN/PDFSPEC.PDF on page 27. It can not be repro- duced here for strange copyright reasons. Think of PDF as PostScript without programming constructs. A PDF file con- sists of graphical objects tight together in such a way that fast viewing is po* *ssible and incremental updates become possible. 1.1.4 How can I view a PDF file? There are several .pdf readers available as freeware over the internet. Adobe's Acrobat Reader is available for many operating systems, including Windows 95, NT, and 3.1, Macintosh, Linux, Sun, and OS/2. Download the self-installing executabale from Adobe's website: http://www.adobe.com/ prodindex/acrobat/. Ghostscipt is a .ps interpreter and Ghostview is its graphical front-end. Gh* *ostscript is also available for many operating systems, including UNIX and VMS, MS-DOS, MS-Windows, OS/2 and Macintosh. See the Ghostscript homepage at http: //www.cs.wisc.edu/"ghost/ for details, documentation, and downloads. Another previewer is xpdf, a PDF viewer for X maintained by Derek B. Noon- burg (mailto:derekn@aimnet.com) with a home page at http://www. aimnet.com/"derekn/xpdf. Xpdf runs under the X Window System on UNIX, VMS, and OS/2 and is designed to be small and efficient. It does not use the Motif or Xt libraries and only uses standard X fonts. [FIXME: some words about Xpdf and other PDF vievers] 1.2 Authors 1.2.1 Who is the author of pdfTeX? The primary author of pdfTeX is Han The Thanh (mailto:thanh@fi.muni. cz). [FIXME: in pdftex.ch there is also Petr Sojka and the current head (rector* *) of Masaryk's University - prof. Jiri Zlatuska.] 2 Information 2.1 Locations 2.1.1 Where can I find pdfTeX? [FIXME: ftp://ftp.cstug.cz/pub/tex/local/cstug/-janik,thanh" daily mirror on ftp://ftp.inet.cz/pub/Mirrors/pdfTeX 4 2.1.2 What is the latest version? The latest version of pdfTeX is pdfTeX-0.12n. This is the latest version of pdf* *TeX approved by Han The Thanh (for now). After this version the primary author (Han The Thanh) left Czech Republic and is away for about three or four months. When he comes back, he will continue on the pdfTeX's development. In the meantime pdfTeX's maintainer is Pavel Janik ml (he is also student of Masaryk's Universi* *ty). He releases bug-fixes to pdfTeX-0.12n as versions pdfTeX-0.12o-?, where `?' is a small number. The latest bug-fix release is pdfTeX-0.12o-6. 2.1.3 Where can I find some docs about pdfTeX? A website for the pdfTeX project is maintained by Sebastian Rahtz (mailto: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk), and can be found at: http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/ In it you will find: o The pdfTeX manual in PDF format: http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/pdftexman.pdf and HTML format: http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/pdftexman.html o The pdfTeX mailing list archives: http://tug.org/ListsArchives/pdftex/threads.html o This FAQ in PDF format: http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/pdfTeX-FAQ.pdf and DVI format: http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/ pdfTeX-FAQ.dvi [FIXME: The best documentation is in the source files...] 2.1.4 Is there a pdfTeX mailing list? Yes, to subscribe send mail to mailto:majordomo@tug.org, and put the line: subscribe pdftex username@hostname in the body of the message, where username@hostname is your complete email address. 5 2.1.5 Where can I find an archive of the pdfTeX mailing list? An ftp site of the mailing list, arranged chronologicaly can be found at: ftp: //ftp.tug.org/mail-archives/pdftex/ Daily mirror is also at ftp: //ftp.inet.cz/pub/Mirrors/pdfTeX-MailArchive/ 2.1.6 How do I get new versions of this FAQ? The TeX version of this document is periodically posted to pdfTeX's mailing lis* *t. It is also uploaded to http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/ pdfTeX-FAQ.pdf with its LaTeX source: http://www.tug.org/applications/ pdftex/pdfTeX-FAQ.tex 2.1.7 How do I contribute to this FAQ? Send email to the FAQ maintainer: Jody Klymak mailto:jklymak@apl. washington.eduwith the word FAQ in the subject line. If possible FAQ en- tries should be formatted like this example: "question-This_is_a_template_faq_question"-This is a tem- plate faq question"-1998/09/24" - "contributor-Pavel Jan"'-"i"k jr" -mailto:Pavel.Janik@inet.cz"-1998/09/10" "contributor-Jody Klymak" -mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu"-1998/09/24" This is a sample FAQ question. It can reference other questions, like Question "ref-q:what_is_TeX", or sections (See Section "ref-sec:General"). This FAQ can be found at "url-http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/pdfTeX-FAQ.pdf", and is maintained by Jody Klymak "url-mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu" " 6 3 Installation 3.1 General Installation 3.1.1 How do I install the latest version of pdfTeX? [FIXME: see script Install and comment it!, add some URLS of web-*, web2c-*, ...] 3.1.2 How do I use pdflatex (how to generate pdflatex.fmt)? 3.1.3 Why use pdflatex vs (??? i.e. latex2html)? 3.1.4 How do I compress my PDF files? pdfTeX can compress its output, but by default pdfTeX does not (depending on your configuration). You can manually specify compression from 0 to 9 in the source file by the tag "pdfcompresslevel: "pdfcompresslevel9 or in the configuration file (pdftex.cfg): compress_level 9 0 means no compression and 9 is the most (and the slowest) compression. 3.1.5 What can I do with this pdftex.cfg file? 3.1.6 How can I make a document portable to both latex and pdflatex Check for the existence of the variable "pdfoutput: "newif"ifpdf "ifx"pdfoutput"undefined "pdffalse % we are not running PDFLaTeX "else "pdfoutput=1 % we are running PDFLaTeX "pdftrue "fi Then use your new variable "ifpdf 7 "ifpdf "usepackage[pdftex]-graphicx" "pdfcompresslevel=9 "else "usepackage-graphicx" "fi 4 Fonts in pdfTeX 4.1 Fonts in general 4.1.1 What kind of fonts can I use? 4.2 Type1 fonts 4.2.1 How do I use Type1 fonts? 4.2.2 How do I generate TFM files for Type1 fonts? 4.3 TrueType fonts 4.3.1 How do I use TrueType fonts? 4.3.2 How do I generate TFM files for TrueType fonts? 4.4 pk fonts 4.4.1 How do I use pk fonts? 4.4.2 Why does Acrobat Reader display pk fonts so poorly? 5 Graphics 5.1 Graphics in general 5.1.1 How do I include pictures in pdfLaTeX? Pictures come in two formats, vector or bitmapped. When possible, use vector fo* *r- mats when making a PDF document since they can support an arbitrary ammount of magnification. So far, pdfLaTeX supports graphics inclusions in PDF, JPEG, PNG, and MetaPost formats [FIXME: what others? Also which are vector or not?] As with LaTeX, the best package for image inclusion is graphics/graphicx, available on CTAN. In order to get the graphicx package working with pdflatex you must get http://tug.org/applications/pdftex/pdftex.def 8 and put it in your TeX tree (mine is at C:"TeX"share"texmf"tex"latex" graphics). Then some slight modifications to your source file: %% In the preamble add "usepackage[pdftex]-graphicx" %% OPTIONAL: In the main document, immediately after "begin-document" "DeclareGraphicsExtensions-.jpg,.pdf,.mps,.png" %% To include a graphics file "includegraphics-filename_to_include" The package will then search for the filename with the above extensions if one isn't provided. With this package the image can also be scaled or cropped. This uses D. Carlisle's "graphics" package and is available on CTAN at /macros/ latex/packages/graphics. Note that by not including file-extensions in the "includegraphics command, you can maintain PDF and DVI versions of your document, especially if you include postscript figures (see question 5.2.2* * and question 3.1.6) 5.2 Vector Formats 5.2.1 How do I include PDF pictures? In order to include PDF pictures you need pdfLaTeX 0.12n or later. Make sure th* *at the PDF figure is properly cropped. See Question 5.2.3 for how to do this for E* *PS files. [FIXME: How do you get Distiller to do this?] Then follow the steps outl* *ined in Question 5.1.1. 5.2.2 How do I include EPS pictures? You cannot directly do so. You must convert encapsulated postscript pictures to PDF first, explained in question 5.2.3, and then include them (see question 5.2* *.1) 5.2.3 How do I convert an EPS figure to PDF? You can use epstopdf (a Perl script which uses Ghostscript for conversion) at http://tug.org/applications/pdftex/epstopdf or Distiller to do the work for you. [FIXME: add an example here] To use epstopdf, you need Perl 5. Usage of epstopdf is easy: epstopdf.pl myfile.eps 9 converts your eps-graphic file myfile.eps to the file myfile.pdf. Valid options for epstopdf (v2.1) are: [FIXME] Change the line $GS="gs"; in this script to the name of your Ghostscript executable if it is different* *, e.g. $GS="gswin32c"; on a Win32 system. On some systems it is necessary to invoke Perl explicitly, e.g. with perl epstopdf.pl myfile.eps [FIXME: How do you use distiller??] 5.2.4 Why doesn't my pdf picture show up when I include it? You are using Distiler to convert your .eps file to pdf. Distiller does not alw* *ays set the bounding box correctly. The bounding box of an enbedable pdf document must be the page size, and if any part of your figure extends beyond the bounding bo* *x, the figure will not show up. There are two solutions. 1. Get texutil.pl from http://www.ntg.nl/context/zipped/texutil. zip and say texutil --fig --epspage file.eps and the file is corrected for distiller. (This solution is from Hans Hagen mailto:pragma@wxs.nl.) 2. Instead of running distiller, use http://www.tug.org/applications/ pdftex/epstopdf (see question 5.2.3) Another tool that might be of some help is aimaker. Aimaker ia a perl script* * that is designed to convert generic .eps files into .aieps files that can be read by* * adobe ilustrator. Aimaker calculates the bounding box for the eps file. Aimaker is av* *ail- able at ftp://ftp.aos.princeton.edu/pub/olszewsk/aimaker.shar 10 5.3 Bitmap Formats 5.3.1 How do I include TIFF pictures? 5.4 Other Graphics 5.4.1 How can I use MetaPost in pdfTeX? 6 Miscellaneous 6.1 Kpathsea 6.1.1 What is this kpathsea? 6.2 Hyperref 6.2.1 What is hyperref? The hyperref package is a way of adding hyper-references to a LaTeX document. For instance, a reference to a figure in the text can be marked up with a hyper- link, allowing the user to jump to the figure without scrolling through a lot of text. [FIXME: but for now see the hyperref package documentation hyperref.dvi or manual.pdf] The hyperref package is available on CTAN (or a CTAN mirror) at ftp:// ftp.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/supported/ hyperref 6.2.2 How can I use it? [FIXME: but for now see the hyperref package documentation hyperref.dvi or man- ual.pdf] 6.2.3 My pdftex.cfg says to use A4 paper, but the document comes out in Letter format. You certainly use hyperref. This package sets the page dimensions according to your settings in LaTeX. If you do not specify "a4paper" in your options to "documentclass, it assumes Letter paper and overrides the entries in your pdftex.cfg file. 11 6.2.4 I get the message: "Warning (ext1): destination with the same identi- fier already exists!" You get this message if you use hyperref and have some page numbers more than once, e.g. when re-starting page numbering with each chapter or having an ap- pendix. Circumvent this with "usepackage[pdftex,plainpages=false]-hyperref" or put plainpages=false into your hyperref.cfg. 6.3 ConTeXt 6.3.1 What is ConTeXt? ConTeXt is a full featured macro package that has build in support for pdfTeX. More information can be found at http://www.ntg.nl/context (manuals, source code, examples). 6.3.2 How can I use ConTeXt? A Contributors o Carl Zmola -zmola@acm.org" Q5.2.4-10 o Carl Zmola -zmola@campbellsci.com" Q5.2.1-9 o Christian Kumpf -mailto:kumpf@igd.fhg.de" Q3.1.6-7 o Colin Marquardt -mailto:colin.marquardt@gmx.de" Q5.2.3-9 Q6.2.3-11 Q6.2.4-12 o Jody Klymak -jklymak@apl.washington.edu" Q2.1.3-5 Q2.1.4-5 Q2.1.5-6 Q2.1.6-6 Q5.1.1-8 Q5.2.2-9 12 o Jody Klymak -mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu" Q2.1.7-6 o Michael Sanders -mailto:sanders@umich.edu" Q1.1.4-4 o Pavel Janik jr -mailto:Pavel.Janik@inet.cz" Q1.1.1-3 Q1.1.2-3 Q1.1.3-3 Q1.2.1-4 Q2.1.1-4 Q2.1.2-5 Q3.1.1-7 Q3.1.4-7 Q6.2.1-11 Q6.3.1-12 o Steve Phipps -mailto:slpp@ix.netcom.com" Q1.1.4-4 13 --------------149E90CA3B2AB8EAAEFEF8A3-- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 14:17:10 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07575 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 14:17:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA15720 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:43:00 -0500 Received: from vasili.rlf.org (tporter@pool-207-205-239-93.atln.grid.net [207.205.239.93]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15717 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:42:42 -0500 From: txporter@mindspring.com Received: (from tporter@localhost) by vasili.rlf.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA24416; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:42:18 -0500 Message-ID: <19981112154217.21261@vasili.rlf.org> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:42:17 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: libpng version incompatibility? Reply-To: txporter@mindspring.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89i Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk As a brand new pdftex user, via a Red hat Linux RPM, I have gotten an error I cannot resolve, when trying out the example.tex file from the pdftex documentation directory (renamed to pdfexample.tex on my box): [tporter@vasili tporter]$ pdftex pdfexample This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12h (Web2C 7.2) (pdftex.cfg) (pdfexample.tex (/usr/share/texmf/tex/eplain/eplain.tex) (/usr/share/texmf/pdftex/plain/misc/pdfcolor.tex) Underfull \vbox (badness 10000) has occurred while \output is active [1] [2]libpng error: Incompatible libpng version in application and library ! Error: pdftex (file image.png): png_create_read_struct() failed I am using libpng.so.0.96 I am pretty sure. How can I tell what version pdftex requires? Sorry if this is a FAQ. -- Tom Porter txporter@mindspring.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 17:21:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12613 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:21:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA15990 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:38:00 -0500 Received: from aida.inet.cz (root@aida.inet.cz [194.196.192.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA15987 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:37:57 -0500 Received: from SnowWhite.inet.cz (IDENT:pavel@dialup1.inet.cz [194.196.193.1]) by aida.inet.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA10038; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:37:32 +0100 Received: (from pavel@localhost) by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA01600; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:20:04 +0100 To: Han The Thanh Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) Subject: Re: pdftex-0.12r References: <199811120747.IAA03180@anxur.fi.muni.cz> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.1.128 on Intel, Linux 2.0.32 on SPARC Organization: INET a.s., Kralovopolska 139, Brno, 60112, Czech Republic X-URL-PGP: http://www.inet.cz/~pjanik X-Phone: +420 5 41321276 ext. 171, +420 5 41321251 ext. 17 X-Spam: No unsolicited e-mail. 500 dollars per message proof-reading for unsolicited e-mail. X-Not-Receiving-Mail-From: mrp.cz, hotmail.com, post.cz, email.cz, usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 From: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: 13 Nov 1998 00:19:59 +0100 In-Reply-To: Han The Thanh's message of Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:47:30 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Lines: 25 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk From: Han The Thanh Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:47:30 +0100 (MET) Hi, > pdftex-0.12r has been released (sources only). Binaries will be added later. I noticed when rebuild of the new beta of tetex finished :-) Thomas has sources earlier than me with my daily based mirror so I should shorten the interval... > In the end I had to give up the magic game with TTF on Win32. Unless Acrobat on > Win32 uses it owns TTF render, the problem is depended on how > Window handles TTF. I don't consider to do anything more with that. I understand you - can we contact someone from Adobe to clarify True Type fonts handling in Adobe Acrobat? If no - I think we should follow PDF specification - never mind that Wn32 Acroread doesn't do what it is supposed to do. BTW - when we speak about fonts - do you plan to include some form of MM fonts? Any demand for this feature? Shouldn't we wait for PDF 1.3? -- Pavel Janík ml. Pavel.Janik@inet.cz From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 12 17:54:28 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA13401 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:54:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA16091 for pdftex-list; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:16:44 -0500 Received: from esemetz.ese-metz.fr (esemetz.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.212]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA16088 for ; Thu, 12 Nov 1998 19:16:40 -0500 Received: from hal9000 (ppp3.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.223]) by esemetz.ese-metz.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA22286 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:16:41 +0100 Message-ID: <001201be0e9b$2fa93290$dfe030c1@hal9000.ese-metz.fr> From: "Fabrice Popineau" To: Subject: web2c 0.12r win32 binaries Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:18:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tug.org id TAA16089 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk They are available from : ftp://ftp.ese-metz.fr/pub/TeX/win32/pdftex-0.12r-win32.zip Fabrice From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 01:52:15 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22900 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:52:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA16542 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:23:13 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA16539 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:23:10 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01468; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:23:08 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA17955; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:23:05 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811130823.JAA17955@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex-0.12r In-Reply-To: from "Pavel Janik ml." at "Nov 13, 98 00:19:59 am" To: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:23:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > In the end I had to give up the magic game with TTF on Win32. Unless Acrobat on > > Win32 uses it owns TTF render, the problem is depended on how > > Window handles TTF. I don't consider to do anything more with that. > > I understand you - can we contact someone from Adobe to clarify True > Type fonts handling in Adobe Acrobat? If no - I think we should follow > PDF specification - never mind that Wn32 Acroread doesn't do what it > is supposed to do. luckily we have ghostscript on windows too. > BTW - when we speak about fonts - do you plan to include some form of > MM fonts? Any demand for this feature? Shouldn't we wait for PDF 1.3? yes I consider to support MM font, and we should wait for PDF-1.3, there may be better support for MM. At the moment I want to get pdfetex work first. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 02:32:29 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA23841 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:32:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA16661 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:56:02 -0500 Received: from jhcloos.com (IDENT:cloos@austin.jhcloos.com [206.224.83.202]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA16658 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:56:00 -0500 Received: (from cloos@localhost) by jhcloos.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA05387; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:55:15 -0600 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <13899.665.127099.773334@srahtz> <364B04B5.4F1B@coli.uni-sb.de> <13899.2625.288149.857074@srahtz> From: "James H. Cloos Jr." In-Reply-To: Sebastian Rahtz's message of "Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:18:09 +0000 (GMT)" Date: 13 Nov 1998 02:55:15 -0600 Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.27/Emacs 20.2 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Sebastian" == Sebastian Rahtz writes: Sebastian> Unless I misunderstand PDF, its still 8 bit, isnt it? not Sebastian> Unicode? not sure if Omega could grok this or not. it has Sebastian> its own dvi format, doesnt it? Nope. Character strings in the PDF file that start with 0xfe 0xff are interpreted as 16bit unicode data, presuming it is a PDF 1.2 file. I've read, though, that acroreader version through 3.02 do not support this; the version supposedly now in beta, however, does. The PDFSPEC.PDF technote explains this; see section 4.4. -JimC -- James H. Cloos, Jr. E9E9 F828 61A4 6EA9 0F2B 63E7 997A 9F17 ED7D AEA6 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 02:36:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA23907 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:36:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA16846 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:07:14 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA16842 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:07:11 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.242]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4F80; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:06:53 +0100 Message-ID: <364B057D.77EAF8C5@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:57:49 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Carlisle CC: zivca@netvision.net.il, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem References: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> <364981A4.94BD3238@wxs.nl> <199811121505.PAA28272@nag.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote: > dvips maintains a colour stack in the driver separate from the > postscript stack in the generated output, it then provides specific push > and pop \special commands to manipulate this stack. Ok. I only wonder how this affects moving pages around (page imposition). It's the main reason why I handle page imposition at the tex level. > In theory it may be possible to correctly code colours over floating Well, correctly within reasonable bounds. Marks do interfere, although in normal color applications, it seldoms shows up. (For this purpose I can visualize mark placement). > inserts using TeX marks (I think that's what you do in context?) but You're right. > I do not think it is possible to do that in latex without breaking too > many existing uses of \mark. So I chose not to do that and so sometimes > pdftex will `lose' the correct colour at page boundaries. Makes sense. > The situation would be different if pdftex were to get etex extended > multiple marks, as then you would be able to code in this functionality > without breaking existing code. You can fake multiple marks in tex, but at the cost of speed. So, indeed context can do multiple marks in headings/footers and color and some more things using marks. But, it takes some effort and low level hackery to keep thing fast enough. Concerning etex, proper color is beyond marks, and should be (and therefore some day will be) part of the tex kernel. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 02:37:19 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA23940 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:37:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA16861 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:07:45 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA16858 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:07:44 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.242]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1B83; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:07:12 +0100 Message-ID: <364BF44C.E184A634@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:56:44 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: David Carlisle , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <13898.64504.996329.497372@fell.open.ac.uk> <199811121624.QAA23640@nag.co.uk> <13899.3092.596255.43429@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > My question was whether the actual text characters should be expanded > implicitly by pdftex, rather than explicitly by a macro-writer. Well, maybe you devoted catholics should convert to dutch protestantism and opt for processing at the input, in between and at the end. OTP's all along the way. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 02:41:05 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA24006 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:41:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA16941 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:12:31 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA16938 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:12:30 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06899 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:12:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA21559 for pdftex@tug.cs.umb.edu; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:12:23 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811130912.KAA21559@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: tangle man To: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:12:23 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I lost the documentation of tangle. Does anyone know where I can get it? Thanks in advance, Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 02:52:45 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA24210 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:52:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA17156 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:25:30 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA17153 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:25:28 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07744 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:25:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22425 for pdftex@tug.cs.umb.edu; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:25:25 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811130925.KAA22425@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: tangle man To: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:25:24 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > > I lost the documentation of tangle. Does anyone know where I can get it? > > Thanks in advance, > Thanh sorry about the silly question. I got it on. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 03:16:31 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA24608 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:16:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA17526 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:47:39 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA17523 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:47:27 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id JAA23924; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:46:45 GMT Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:46:45 GMT Message-Id: <199811130946.JAA23924@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <364B057D.77EAF8C5@wxs.nl> (message from Hans Hagen on Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:57:49 +0100) Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem References: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> <364981A4.94BD3238@wxs.nl> <199811121505.PAA28272@nag.co.uk> <364B057D.77EAF8C5@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Ok. I only wonder how this affects moving pages around (page > imposition). It's the main reason why I handle page imposition at the > tex level. dvips makes a first pass through the dvi file essentially flattening the stack and explicitly adding the specials to set up the colour state on each page. This stage needs to be done by any dvi-page rearanger. At least some versions of dvi-dvi tools do correctly handle these specials. > You can fake multiple marks in tex, but at the cost of speed. Speed isn't so important, I could live with that, but what you can not do is transparently overlay the multiple mark system on top of fifteen years worth of contributed latex code. To make multiple marks at the level of tex macros you need to make one \mark carry multiple fields, this only works if you always do that. All it takes is for one contributed style file, by someone, somewehere, to go \mark{}, and you have lost all the information for all the marks. Of course you would hide the `real' \mark and try to make the command called \mark do something safe, but in my judgement this will break too often to be worth the effort implementing it. It is different in context as there you are making a new start (and you have far less contributed and legacy code). There are packages for latex that provide multiple marks and they work well enough, but if someone is explicitly loading a multiple marks package they may be aware of the dangers. I don't think it is possible to give a describable interface for something like colour if it is going to break because of a `hidden' use of marks. > Concerning etex, proper color is beyond marks, and should be (and > therefore some day will be) part of the tex kernel. `should' implies `will'? Ah, you have such faith:-) David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 05:36:47 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA26906 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 05:36:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA18091 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:57:19 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA18088 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:57:16 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:57:04 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA01137; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:56:34 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:56:34 +0000 (GMT) To: David Carlisle CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Colored text spanning pages problem In-Reply-To: <199811130946.JAA23924@nag.co.uk> References: <01be0c26$b55ec4d0$6f0000c0@prime> <364981A4.94BD3238@wxs.nl> <199811121505.PAA28272@nag.co.uk> <364B057D.77EAF8C5@wxs.nl> <199811130946.JAA23924@nag.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13900.7561.808650.882800@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > > Concerning etex, proper color is beyond marks, and should be (and > > therefore some day will be) part of the tex kernel. > > `should' implies `will'? Ah, you have such faith:-) Dutch protestantism has replaced faith by action! I seem to recall from my my T301 course (20C Theology) that The Netherlands is famous for radical catholicism...??:-) chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 09:16:30 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01777 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:16:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18825 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:59:03 -0500 Received: from ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (cottrell@ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu [152.17.150.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18822 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:59:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (cottrell@localhost) by ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21706; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:55:11 -0500 Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:55:11 -0500 (EST) From: Allin Cottrell To: txporter@mindspring.com cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: libpng version incompatibility? In-Reply-To: <19981112154217.21261@vasili.rlf.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 txporter@mindspring.com wrote: > As a brand new pdftex user, via a Red hat Linux RPM, I have > gotten an error I cannot resolve, when trying out the > example.tex file from the pdftex documentation directory > ! Error: pdftex (file image.png): > png_create_read_struct() failed Tom, You might be best to grab a Linux libc6 binary of pdftex from the Czech site; the binaries are statically linked with libpng which ought to solve your problem if it is due to libpng version incompatibility. See: ftp://ftp.cstug.cz/pub/tex/local/cstug/janik/ (contd.) pdftex-0.12o-8/binaries/Linux/Libc6/ -- Allin Cottrell Department of Economics Wake Forest University, NC From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 13 10:47:02 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04190 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:46:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA19817 for pdftex-list; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:12:32 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA19814 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:12:29 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01522 for ; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:12:22 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id SAA22341; Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:14:36 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:14:36 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811131714.SAA22341@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: 0.12r In-Reply-To: References: <19981112154217.21261@vasili.rlf.org> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, pdftex .12r - says it's .12q (banner) - dies without any explanation when i gently ask it to include a pdf file. (the compilation process went smoothly, i only wanted to produce a newer PDF having no print limitations...) Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/pdfTeX From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 14 06:27:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA28620 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 1998 06:27:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA24192 for pdftex-list; Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:51:27 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA24189 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:51:23 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-6-26.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.56.212]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA21213 for ; Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:51:09 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <364D7F03.9ED71B9C@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:00:51 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: 0.12r References: <19981112154217.21261@vasili.rlf.org> <199811131714.SAA22341@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche wrote (in part): > > pdftex .12r > > - says it's .12q (banner) Strange, the one I've got calls itself .12r I'm wondering what changes have been made to the TTF handling mechanism between .12p and .12r With .12r I've observed once more the phenomenon (under win95) that acroreader's behaviour depends on whether or not the true-type font used is installed in \Windows\Fonts. Specifically, for a certain document that uses the Verdana font, the fl and fi ligatures appear OK if the font is not installed, but are replaced by empty boxes if it is installed. However, in the same document the emdashes and endashes appear OK if the font is installed but are replaced by empty boxes if it isn't. With .12p I could have the fi's and fl's and emdashes and endashes all at once (but there were a substantial number of other characters that didn't show) and it didn't depend on whether or not the font was installed. No doubt these mysterious problems will go away when the new version of acrobat appears. In the meantime I'm hanging on to .12p as well as .12r. Bob From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 15 04:13:30 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21329 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:13:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA27896 for pdftex-list; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:42:06 -0500 Received: from www.inx.de (root@www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA27893 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:42:04 -0500 Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from n246-173.berlin.snafu.de (195.21.246.173) with smtp id ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:42:01 +0100 (MET) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: \hypersetup doesn't work From: stk@snafu.de (Stefan Haller) Reply-To: pdftex@tug.org Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:41:55 +0100 Message-ID: <1dij916.yk4wsv10ii4M@n246-173.berlin.snafu.de> Organization: none User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4b3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk It looks like \hypersetup fails to set boolean options. In the following example, the colorlinks and bookmarksopen options don't appear to have any effect; the resulting pdf file doesn't have colored links, and the bookmarks are closed. However, non-boolean options in the \hypersetup command do work (such as pdfstartview=FitH). \documentclass{report} \usepackage{hyperref} \hypersetup{colorlinks=true,bookmarksopen=true} \begin{document} \tableofcontents \chapter{xyz} \section{abc} \end{document} The strange thing is that the exact same \hypersetup command works just fine if I put it in a hyperref.cfg file. Passing the options to the \usepackage command also works fine. Any ideas? (hyperref.sty is version 6.40, keyval.sty is v1.11.) -- Stefan Haller Berlin, Germany http://www.snafu.de/~stk/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 15 07:49:05 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24569 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 07:48:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA28204 for pdftex-list; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:19:36 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28201 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:19:30 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-6-25.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.56.211]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id BAA00169 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:19:23 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <364EE536.81FF8AB8@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:29:10 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Including pdf files via \pdfimage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I've been trying (for the first time) to include a small picture-with-text in the form of a pdf file using \pdfimage smallpic.pdf smallpic.pdf was created from a tex file that used the pstricks package and dvips to first get an eps file and then distiller to get pdf. I can't quite get it to work as I would like. At first it didn't work at all, but when I switched off compression in distiller and also selected ascii I got a valid pdf file which included my small picture. But the small picture is surrounded by a page's worth of white space. When I use Exchange to crop this space away something happens, but the picture doesn't stay in the right place. Help would be appreciated. Bob (PS This is .12r with win95) From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 15 09:25:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26066 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 09:25:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA28556 for pdftex-list; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:44:14 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28553 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:44:13 -0500 Received: from remote142-78.home.uni-freiburg.de (Kabuffi) [132.230.142.78] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0zf4LO-0003T2-00; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:44:06 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981115164512.0079a100@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:45:12 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: Re: \hypersetup doesn't work In-Reply-To: <1dij916.yk4wsv10ii4M@n246-173.berlin.snafu.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk At 11:41 15.11.98 +0100, Stefan Haller wrote: >It looks like \hypersetup fails to set boolean options. In the >following example, the colorlinks and bookmarksopen options don't appear >to have any effect; the resulting pdf file doesn't have colored links, >and the bookmarks are closed. However, non-boolean options in the >\hypersetup command do work (such as pdfstartview=FitH). > > \usepackage{hyperref} > \hypersetup{colorlinks=true,bookmarksopen=true} > >The strange thing is that the exact same \hypersetup command works just >fine if I put it in a hyperref.cfg file. Passing the options to the >\usepackage command also works fine. The boolean options set \if-switches. They are interpreted at different times: * while package loading or AtEndOfPackage: These options cannot be used _after_ loading the package. (bookmarksopen) * AtBeginDocument: These options can be set with \hypersetup _after_ the package. (toolbar, menubar, ...) The color part of colorlinks is executed at package loading time, the part that disables the border is executed AtBeginDocument: \hypersetup{colorlinks=true} produces black links without border. Yours sincerely Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 15 13:25:44 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00345 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:25:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA29191 for pdftex-list; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:56:45 -0500 Received: from www.inx.de (root@www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA29188 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:56:43 -0500 Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from n33-184.berlin.snafu.de (195.21.33.184) with smtp id ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:56:37 +0100 (MET) To: pdftex@tug.org In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981115164512.0079a100@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> Subject: Re: \hypersetup doesn't work From: stk@snafu.de (Stefan Haller) Reply-To: pdftex@tug.org Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:56:31 +0100 Message-ID: <1diju86.a4uqz4t9l2zoM@n33-184.berlin.snafu.de> Organization: none User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4b3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Heiko Oberdiek wrote: > The boolean options set \if-switches. They are interpreted at > different times: > * while package loading or AtEndOfPackage: > These options cannot be used _after_ loading the package. > (bookmarksopen) > * AtBeginDocument: > These options can be set with \hypersetup _after_ the package. > (toolbar, menubar, ...) > > The color part of colorlinks is executed at package loading time, > the part that disables the border is executed AtBeginDocument: > \hypersetup{colorlinks=true} produces black links without border. Thanks for the explanation, but isn't this a bug then? I mean, as a user I don't care how it works internally, I simply want it to do what I tell it to, and at present it doesn't look like it does. (Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh; I do appreciate all the work that went into hyperref.) -- Stefan Haller Berlin, Germany http://www.snafu.de/~stk/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 15 13:28:57 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00425 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:28:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA29187 for pdftex-list; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:56:43 -0500 Received: from www.inx.de (root@www.inx.de [195.21.255.251]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA29183 for ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:56:41 -0500 Received: by www.inx.de (Smail3.2.0.96inx) from n33-184.berlin.snafu.de (195.21.33.184) with smtp id ; Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:56:39 +0100 (MET) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: hyperref and bookmarksopen From: stk@snafu.de (Stefan Haller) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 20:56:34 +0100 Message-ID: <1dijyr9.1sgt9zt81ommM@n33-184.berlin.snafu.de> Organization: none User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4b3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Ok, I may have complained a lot recently, so here's a contribution that I hope may be useful. I found the need to have certain bookmarks open but others closed, so I hacked around a bit and came up with the following simple patch. It introduces two new commands that can be used anywhere in the document, \bookmarksopen and \bookmarksclosed; they affect all bookmarks that are created from then on, until switched again by another command. The patch is for hyperref 6.42. Caveat: I'm really no expert at TeX hacking, I wouldn't be surprised if I broke something. (It works fine for me so far though.) And the patched version will choke on .out files from the original version, so you have to delete those before you latex a document with the patched version for the first time. -- Stefan Haller Berlin, Germany http://www.snafu.de/~stk/ $ diff --context hyperref.sty.orig hyperref.sty *** hyperref.sty.orig Sun Nov 15 19:54:21 1998 --- hyperref.sty Sun Nov 15 20:13:46 1998 *************** *** 147,152 **** --- 147,154 ---- \let\literalps@out\@gobble \let\pdfbookmark\@gobbletwo \let\Acrobatmenu\@gobble + \def\bookmarksopen{\def\@bookmarkopenstatus{}} + \def\bookmarksclosed{\def\@bookmarkopenstatus{-}} \def\@writetorep#1#2#3#4{}% \def\Hyp@boolkey#1#2{% \hyper@info{option #2 set #1}% $ diff --context hpdftex.def.orig hpdftex.def *** hpdftex.def.orig Sun Nov 15 19:54:31 1998 --- hpdftex.def Sun Nov 15 20:30:33 1998 *************** *** 535,540 **** --- 535,541 ---- \protect\BOOKMARK{#3}% {\Hy@bookmarkstring}{\csname Parent\the\@tempcnta\endcsname}% \fi + {\@bookmarkopenstatus}% }% \PDFbookmarkfalse \let\Hy@bookmarkstring\relax *************** *** 560,572 **** \begingroup \escapechar=`\\% \let\escapechar\@gobble % ! \def\BOOKMARK ##1##2##3{\calc@bm@number{##3}}% \InputIfFileExists{\jobname.out}{}{}% ! \def\BOOKMARK ##1##2##3{% \def\@tempx{##2}% \pdfoutline goto name{##1}% ! count\@bookmarkopenstatus\check@bm@number{##1}{% \expandafter\strip@prefix\meaning\@tempx}% }% {% --- 561,573 ---- \begingroup \escapechar=`\\% \let\escapechar\@gobble % ! \def\BOOKMARK ##1##2##3##4{\calc@bm@number{##3}}% \InputIfFileExists{\jobname.out}{}{}% ! \def\BOOKMARK ##1##2##3##4{% \def\@tempx{##2}% \pdfoutline goto name{##1}% ! count##4\check@bm@number{##1}{% \expandafter\strip@prefix\meaning\@tempx}% }% {% From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 16 03:12:09 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15049 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:12:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA30804 for pdftex-list; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 04:20:35 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA30801 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 04:20:20 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09088; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:20:16 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id KAA13891; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:22:54 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:22:54 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811160922.KAA13891@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Robert Howlett Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: 0.12r In-Reply-To: <364D7F03.9ED71B9C@mail.usyd.edu.au> References: <19981112154217.21261@vasili.rlf.org> <199811131714.SAA22341@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <364D7F03.9ED71B9C@mail.usyd.edu.au> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Concernant « Re: 0.12r », Robert Howlett écrit : « » » » Thierry Bouche wrote (in part): » » > » > pdftex .12r » > » > - says it's .12q (banner) » » » Strange, the one I've got calls itself .12r i use the sources from ftp://ftp.cstug.cz/pub/tex/local/cstug/thanh/pdftex-testing/pdftex-0.12r/ as you're talking of win32, you maybe downloaded FP binaries. Did Fabrice touch something? Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 16 03:49:34 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15669 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:49:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA30920 for pdftex-list; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 05:07:35 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA30917 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 05:07:33 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21051; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:07:24 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA27634; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:07:23 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811161007.LAA27634@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: 0.12r In-Reply-To: <199811160922.KAA13891@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> from Thierry Bouche at "Nov 16, 98 10:22:54 am" To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr (Thierry Bouche) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:07:23 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > i use the sources from > ftp://ftp.cstug.cz/pub/tex/local/cstug/thanh/pdftex-testing/pdftex-0.12r/ > > as you're talking of win32, you maybe downloaded FP binaries. Did > Fabrice touch something? sorry about the mess I caused. I must have done somewhere a mistake while putting on the sources. Thanh PS: Thierry, can you please send me the test files that pdftex dies with? From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 16 04:11:02 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16018 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 04:11:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA31011 for pdftex-list; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 05:24:36 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA31008 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 05:24:35 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA23136; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:24:33 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA29748; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:24:33 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811161024.LAA29748@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: 0.12r and pdf inclusion In-Reply-To: from Fabrice POPINEAU at "Nov 16, 98 11:15:30 am" To: popineau@ese-metz.fr (Fabrice POPINEAU) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:24:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (PDFTEX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > There is something weird with 0.12r : it won't include .pdf files > correctly. I mean : everything builds cleanly, but even if pdftex_test > target runs smoothly, Acrobat Reader will not display the third image > (the .pdf one). > > If it does work on Unix, can you send me the resulting pdftest.pdf so > I can compare why it is failing (silently) here. I guess it's related to c-fopen.h, where the macros for opening modes are defined for various system. Anyway I've got an announce from the author of xpdf about the pretest version of xpdf-0.8, so I am going to update the related sources. Please wait for the next (hopefully more stable) release of pdftex. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 16 05:52:27 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA17710 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 05:52:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA31605 for pdftex-list; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:49:29 -0500 Received: from pccm41.quimica.uniovi.es (carmenes@pccm41.quimica.uniovi.es [156.35.51.128]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA31601 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:49:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (carmenes@localhost) by pccm41.quimica.uniovi.es (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA24732 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:58:46 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: pccm41.quimica.uniovi.es: carmenes owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:58:46 +0100 (CET) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ricardo_S=E1nchez_C=E1rmenes?= X-Sender: carmenes@pccm41.quimica.uniovi.es To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: two 0.12r versions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by tug.org id GAA31603 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi! Thierry has found that version 0.12r reports itself as 0.12q, since others fint it reports correctly as 0.12r. I found that the sources that were originaly put on the cstug server on the 10th of November were changed two days later. Here is the diff file. Strangely, the latest version (presently on the server), reports as 0.12q, whereas the previous one reported 0.12r. diff -ruN old/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/libpdftex.h new/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/libpdftex.h --- old/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/libpdftex.h Mon Nov 9 13:27:30 1998 +++ new/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/libpdftex.h Thu Nov 12 09:49:27 1998 @@ -190,6 +190,6 @@ extern void vf_free(); extern void libpdffinish(); extern void getbbox(int); -extern void writeEPDF(char *, ...); -extern void fail(char *, ...); +extern void __cdecl writeEPDF(char *, ...); +extern void __cdecl fail(char *, ...); diff -ruN old/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/pdftex.ch new/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/pdftex.ch --- old/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/pdftex.ch Wed Nov 11 17:07:01 1998 +++ new/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/pdftex.ch Wed Nov 11 23:30:29 1998 @@ -1,3 +1,4 @@ + % WEB change file containing code for pdfTeX feature extending TeX; % to be applied to tex.web (Version 3.14159) in order to define the % pdfTeX program. @@ -32,9 +33,9 @@ @x [1.2] l.186 - This change is made for TeX 3.14159 @d banner=='This is TeX, Version 3.14159' {printed when \TeX\ starts} @y -@d banner=='This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12r' {printed when \TeX\ starts} +@d banner=='This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12q' {printed when \TeX\ starts} @d pdftex_version=12 { \.{\\pdftexversion} } -@d pdftex_revision=="r" { \.{\\pdftexrevision} } +@d pdftex_revision=="q" { \.{\\pdftexrevision} } @z @x [1.11] l.412 - Change pool name to "pdftex.pool" (WEB2C!) diff -ruN old/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/tex.pch new/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/tex.pch --- old/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/tex.pch Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970 +++ new/texk/web2c/pdftexdir/tex.pch Wed Nov 11 17:14:28 1998 @@ -0,0 +1,7 @@ +@x [1.11] l.412 - Change pool name to "pdftex.pool" (WEB2C!) +@!pool_name=TEX_POOL_NAME; {this is configurable, for the sake of ML-\TeX} +@y +@!pool_name=PDFTEX_POOL_NAME; {this is configurable, for the sake of ML-\TeX} +@z + + ============================================================== Dr. Ricardo Sánchez Cármenes, Departamento de Bioquímica y Biología Molecular, Universidad de Oviedo, E-33071-Oviedo, Spain. email "carmenes@biosun.quimica.uniovi.es" Fax: +34-985103562 or +34-985103157 ============================================================== From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 16 06:03:40 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17946 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:03:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA31470 for pdftex-list; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:31:44 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA31466 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 06:31:41 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-7-8.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.8]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA13986; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:31:21 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36500F53.B74E875D@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 22:41:07 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Prof Brian Ripley , pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Re: Including pdf files via \pdfimage References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Prof Brian Ripley wrote: > > On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Robert Howlett wrote: > > > I've been trying (for the first time) to include a > > small picture-with-text in the form of a pdf file > > using > > \pdfimage smallpic.pdf > > > > smallpic.pdf was created from a tex file that used > > the pstricks package and dvips to first get an > > eps file and then distiller to get pdf. I can't quite > > get it to work as I would like. At first it didn't work > > at all, but when I switched off compression in distiller > > and also selected ascii I got a valid pdf file which > > included my small picture. But the small picture is > > surrounded by a page's worth of white space. When I > > use Exchange to crop this space away something happens, > > but the picture doesn't stay in the right place. > > Use epstopdf to get the MediaBox correct (assuming the bounding box is > correct). Needing to use no compression suggests that you do not have the > current supp-*.tex, and pdftex.def (and Fabrice's package does not AFAIK). > Get all of these from www.tug.org/pdftex/applications. With all the latest > bits this works like a dream. > > -- > Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk > Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ > University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) > 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) > Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 Thanks, this does indeed work just fine for me too. Actually, this is not much different from what I have been doing up to now, viz. using ghostscript to convert postscript to png, for inclusion via \pdfimage. (I then use Graphx Viewer to crop the png image as necessary. I found it necessary to use the ghostscript option -r400x400.) As far as I can see, using ghostscript to produce png is no better or worse than using it to produce pdf. The reason why I was hoping to use distiller instead of ghostscript was because I'd like the fonts to get through the whole process without being bitmapped. In fact, my rather optimistic hope was that I'd have fontless pdf files for my pictures-with-letters-in-them, and then include these into a big pdf file which does have the font info in it (to avoid embedding the same font info many times). Bob From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 16 07:47:57 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19939 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 07:47:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA32159 for pdftex-list; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:00:32 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA32156 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:00:18 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27793; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:00:09 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id PAA25616; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:02:51 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:02:51 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811161402.PAA25616@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Ricardo =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E1nchez_C=E1rmenes?= Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: two 0.12r versions In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Concernant « two 0.12r versions », Ricardo =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E1nchez_C=E1rmenes?= écrit : « » » Hi! » » Thierry has found that version 0.12r reports itself as 0.12q, » since others fint it reports correctly as 0.12r. I found that » the sources that were originaly put on the cstug server on the » 10th of November were changed two days later. Here is the diff » file. Strangely, the latest version (presently on the server), » reports as 0.12q, whereas the previous one reported 0.12r. ah! thanks! your `retro-patch' fixed it! my problems vanished at once! (this didn't even require a new format) Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 16 09:43:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22635 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:43:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA32643 for pdftex-list; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:04:55 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA32640 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:04:50 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08170; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:04:43 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id RAA01076; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:07:23 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:07:23 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811161607.RAA01076@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks In-Reply-To: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk BTW, trying to generate correct bookmarks for http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/pdfTeX/source2e.pdf how do i get something like \input@path showing in the outline column? after some effort, i found that: \BOOKMARK {section.4}{Setting \\\\@currdir}{} which yields (Setting \\@currdir ) in the PDF file, which in turn acrobat will print as \@ currdir (with an extraneous space after @). Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 16 12:01:00 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26541 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:00:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA00162 for pdftex-list; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:21:31 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA00159 for ; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:21:29 -0500 Received: from remote142-46.home.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.142.46] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0zfTHC-00037B-00; Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:21:26 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19981116192042.353ff032@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:20:42 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: Re: hyperref 6.42 and bookmarks In-Reply-To: <199811161607.RAA01076@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <9275-Thu12Nov1998142048+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk At 17:07 16.11.1998 +0100, Thierry Bouche wrote: >how do i get something like \input@path showing in the outline column? With current hyperref: With class ltxdoc the command names are produced with \cmd, so I redefine it in the example below to handle the bookmark case: \documentclass{ltxdoc} \usepackage[pdftex,bookmarks,exactdef=true]{hyperref} \newcommand\cmdorg{} \let\cmdorg\cmd \renewcommand{\cmd}[1]{% \ifbookmark{\expandafter\cmdtopdf\string#1\END}% {\cmdorg{#1}}% } \newcommand\cmdtopdf{} \def\cmdtopdf#1#2\END{% \ifnum`#1=\escapechar \textbackslash#2% \else #1#2% \fi } \begin{document} \tableofcontents \section{\texttt{\cmd{\input@path}}} \section{\cmd{\@currdir}} \end{document} Yours sincerely Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 17 03:30:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA18780 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 03:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA01062 for pdftex-list; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:39:54 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA01059 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:39:52 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00814 for ; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:39:50 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA19476 for pdftex@tug.org; Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:39:45 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811170939.KAA19476@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: pdfetex beta tester? To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 10:39:45 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I need help with testing pdfetex. Please let me know if you are interested in that. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 02:12:54 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA18879 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:12:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA02907 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:31:24 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA02904 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:31:22 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29598 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:31:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA03505 for pdftex@tug.org; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:31:18 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:31:17 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, it seems that there are quite many people interested in beta-testing pdfetex, so I want to make pdfetex as a part of pdftex distribution. I will put on sources as well as binaries for some platforms. So far I've been compiled binaries for DJGPP, Linux, SGI_IRIX and Sun_SPARC_Solaris. Please let me know if the binares for SGI_IRIX are needed anymore. If nobody uses them, it doesn't make sense to have it there. I can also make binaries of pdftex for Digital Unix and SunOS_SPARC if someone needs them. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 03:03:10 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA19899 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:03:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA03050 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:03:58 -0500 Received: from esemetz.ese-metz.fr (esemetz.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.212]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA03047 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:03:53 -0500 Received: from NEUROMANCER.ese-metz.fr (neuromancer.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.95]) by esemetz.ese-metz.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21279; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:03:55 +0100 To: Han The Thanh Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Fabrice POPINEAU Date: 18 Nov 1998 10:03:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: Han The Thanh's message of "Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:31:17 +0100 (MET)" Message-ID: Lines: 4 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.44/XEmacs 21.0 - "Poitou" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk The ones for win32 are ok too :-) Fabrice From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 04:16:41 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21122 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:16:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA03293 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:04:44 -0500 Received: from isy.liu.se (root@isy.liu.se [130.236.48.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA03290 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:04:42 -0500 Received: from cobra.isy.liu.se.liu.se (cobra.isy.liu.se [130.236.50.210]) by isy.liu.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA03483 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:04:35 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost by cobra.isy.liu.se.liu.se (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA20497; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:04:35 +0100 Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:04:35 +0100 (MET) From: Erik Frisk Reply-To: Erik Frisk To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: T1 encoding Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by tug.org id FAA03291 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk What is the status and plans for T1-encoded documents? As of now (with the latest version I've tried) \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} makes the resulting .pdf use Type3 fonts. Is there any way of solving this? /Erik --------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik Frisk email: frisk@isy.liu.se Dept. of Electrical Engineering tel: +46 13 285714 Vehicular Systems fax: +46 13 282035 Linköping University S-581 83 Linköping SWEDEN www.vehicular.isy.liu.se/~frisk --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 05:58:03 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA22845 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:58:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA03575 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:58:22 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA03572 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:58:19 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24079; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:58:13 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id NAA24006; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:01:13 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:01:13 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811181201.NAA24006@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Erik Frisk Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: T1 encoding In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Concernant « T1 encoding », Erik Frisk écrit : « » What is the status and plans for T1-encoded documents? As of now (with the » latest version I've tried) \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} makes the resulting » .pdf use Type3 fonts. Is there any way of solving this? you have what you ask for. If you're willing full T1 compatible fonts in T1 (type1) format, your choice is rather scarce: - use the old bakoma dc-1.1 fonts (this means modifying latex, or using my pdflatext1 from ftp://fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/pub/contrib-tex/pdftex) - buy the new EM font set from y&y (essentially equivalent to the above one, as concerns glyphs available, includes some TS1 glyphs that however will need LY1 or VFs or reencoding to be accessed) If you're OK with a subset of T1, you have the choice between any of the 44,323 font families available in type 1 format, a substantial part of which are available for free at best quality. Finally there are the AE fonts, which are virtual DC based on CM, hence miss many variants from EC, and some glyphs. Denis Roegel has made a small package that allows you to use AE for everything possible, and PK EC instead of awfull black boxes for remaining missing glyphs. Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 06:47:09 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA23798 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 06:47:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA03705 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:52:45 -0500 Received: from orion.ffo.fgan.de (orion.ffo.fgan.de [195.254.45.200]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA03702 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:52:42 -0500 Received: from mira ([172.20.100.10]) by orion.ffo.fgan.de via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 18 Nov 1998 12:56:58 UT Received: from wrk010 ([172.20.10.10]) by mira.ffo.intra.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id 199 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:52:19 +0100 From: "Wolfram Liebchen" To: Subject: RE: T1 encoding Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:52:36 +0100 Message-ID: <000601be12f2$50e3e210$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > From: owner-pdftex@tug.org [mailto:owner-pdftex@tug.org]On Behalf Of > Erik Frisk > > What is the status and plans for T1-encoded documents? As of now (with the > latest version I've tried) \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} makes the resulting > .pdf use Type3 fonts. Is there any way of solving this? ??? I use T1-font encoding and the AcrobatReader says, the embedded fonts are Type-1. It's pdftex-0.12r. It also worked with 0.12o-6. The fonts I use are New-Century-Schoolbok, URWGothic, some cm-fonts, all included as embedded Type-1 fonts. -- Wolfram -- Wolfram Liebchen liebchen@ffo.fgan.de Forschungsinstitut für Optik Schloß Kreßbach 72072 Tübingen Tel: ++49 7071 709-158 Fax: ++49 7071 709-270 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 07:12:27 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24261 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:12:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA03829 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:23:27 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA03826 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:23:23 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats (toucan.stats [163.1.20.20]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA12945; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:22:42 GMT Message-Id: <199811181322.NAA12945@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:22:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian Ripley Reply-To: Prof Brian Ripley Subject: RE: T1 encoding To: liebchen@ffo.fgan.de Cc: pdftex@tug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: Ilodlx28fdu5nP3uQ3Tcwg== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > From: "Wolfram Liebchen" > From: owner-pdftex@tug.org [mailto:owner-pdftex@tug.org]On Behalf Of > > Erik Frisk > > > > What is the status and plans for T1-encoded documents? As of now (with the > > latest version I've tried) \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} makes the resulting > > .pdf use Type3 fonts. Is there any way of solving this? > > ??? > I use T1-font encoding and the AcrobatReader says, the embedded fonts are > Type-1. > It's pdftex-0.12r. It also worked with 0.12o-6. > > The fonts I use are New-Century-Schoolbok, URWGothic, some cm-fonts, all > included as embedded Type-1 fonts. There are no T1 (not type-one but Cork-Encoded) cm fonts. (Look in t1cmr.fd to see what you get.) There are T1 ec fonts, but no type 1 versions in prospect (AFAIK). The short answer is to use text fonts which have 8r.enc versions, and that means in practice Adobe/URW and other postscript fonts. You may even like the results! -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 07:17:30 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24362 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 07:17:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA03811 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:21:50 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA03808 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:21:48 -0500 Received: from remote142-10.home.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.142.10] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0zg7YF-00040y-00; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:21:43 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19981118134455.358fa39e@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:44:55 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: Re: T1 encoding In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk At 11:04 18.11.1998 +0100, Erik Frisk wrote: >What is the status and plans for T1-encoded documents? As of now (with the >latest version I've tried) \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} makes the resulting >.pdf use Type3 fonts. Is there any way of solving this? You can use the package "ae". With virtual fonts it constructs T1 encoded fonts with the cm fonts. Yours sincerely Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 08:15:57 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25555 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:15:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA04206 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:18:28 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA04202 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:18:25 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11742 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:18:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA09580 for pdftex@tug.org; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:18:19 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811181418.PAA09580@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: pdfetex To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:18:19 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, pdfetex now is included in pdftex distribution. The lastest version is available at: ftp://ftp.cstug.cz/pub/tex/local/cstug/thanh/pdftex-beta/0.12r I've changed the structure of the directory tree. There are no longer tex2pdf, pdftex-testing and pdfetex-beta directories. pdftex-testing is replaced by pdftex-beta. Binaries of pdftex and pdfetex are included in bin/*/pdftex.zip Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 18 13:01:56 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03031 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA05069 for pdftex-list; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:12:50 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken76.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA05066 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:12:48 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.152]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA17841 for ; Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:12:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:17:50 -0800 From: Jody Klymak X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, Dumb question I am sure, but can anyone tell me what "etex" is? Thanks, Jody Han The Thanh wrote: > it seems that there are quite many people interested in beta-testing pdfetex, so > I want to make pdfetex as a part of pdftex distribution. -- Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, Doctoral Candidate University of Washington mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu (206)-685-9080 http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 01:24:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19520 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:24:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA05909 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:59:14 -0500 Received: from studserv.stud.uni-hannover.de (stefanh@studserv.stud.uni-hannover.de [130.75.176.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA05906 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:59:12 -0500 Received: (from stefanh@localhost) by studserv.stud.uni-hannover.de (8.9.1/8.9.1/1) id IAA13978; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:58:38 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:58:38 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811190758.IAA13978@studserv.stud.uni-hannover.de> From: Stefan Husmann To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr CC: frisk@isy.liu.se, pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <199811181201.NAA24006@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> (message from Thierry Bouche on Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:01:13 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: T1 encoding Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, beside of the ae-Fonts there are zefonts. They hav the same task as the ae-Fonts but slightly more charakters available, which come from Times or Helvetica. CTAN: fonts/ze Ciao Stefan From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 03:21:13 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21674 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:21:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA06264 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:37:27 -0500 Received: from earth.ox.ac.uk (darwin.earth.ox.ac.uk [163.1.22.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA06261 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:37:25 -0500 Received: from metropolis.earth.ox.ac.uk (metropolis [163.1.22.59]) by earth.ox.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA10589 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:37:19 GMT From: Keith Refson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:37:18 +0000 (GMT) To: pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? In-Reply-To: <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen writes: > In general, pdfetex will be the ultimate tex: dvi and pdf and additional > low level functionality, maybe be extended dvi (a third output mode) > etc. No reason to install something else. But where does Omega fit into all this? Keith Refson -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email: Keith.Refson@ | Tel: +44 1865 272026 | Dr Keith Refson, | earth.ox.ac.uk | Fax: +44 1865 272072 | Dept of Earth Sciences | Spam: root@cyberpromo.com | Parks Road, Oxford OX1 3PR, UK| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 03:25:39 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21761 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:25:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA06181 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:16:46 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA06178 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:16:44 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.54]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA7235; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:16:07 +0100 Message-ID: <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:16:48 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jody Klymak CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jody Klymak wrote: > Dumb question I am sure, but can anyone tell me what "etex" is? TeX itself is frozen. New developments take place under the NTS project (New Typesetting System). ETeX is the intermediate tex, a step towards NTS. Soon there will be OTS, the good old typesetting system (tex) reprogrammed in java, a stepping stone towards NTS. ETEX provides new functionality in the TEX line of thinking. NTS can evolve into something quite different. So ETEX as well as NTS are successors of TEX. There are with regular intervals mettings between developers of macro packages etc and etex team members. Because macro packages will be etex aware (the next context release will be) pdfetex is pretty important, if only that in the future, macro packages will use features unique to etex, and therefore would not work with pdftex. In general, pdfetex will be the ultimate tex: dvi and pdf and additional low level functionality, maybe be extended dvi (a third output mode) etc. No reason to install something else. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 04:03:00 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA22341 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:02:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA06358 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:04:16 -0500 Received: from esemetz.ese-metz.fr (esemetz.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.212]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA06354; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:04:12 -0500 Received: from NEUROMANCER.ese-metz.fr (neuromancer.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.95]) by esemetz.ese-metz.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29329; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:04:17 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:04:17 +0100 Message-Id: <199811191004.LAA29329@esemetz.ese-metz.fr> From: Fabrice POPINEAU To: pdftex@tug.org, fptex@tug.org Subject: pdfetex 0.12r win32 Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk The web2c win32 binaries are available from: ftp://ftp.ese-metz.fr/pub/TeX/win32/pdfetex-0.12r-win32.zip Thanks in advance for any but report / comment. Fabrice From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 04:19:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA22590 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:19:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA06557 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:32:39 -0500 Received: from calvin.info.unicaen.fr (calvin.info.unicaen.fr [193.55.128.51]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA06553 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:32:36 -0500 Received: from info.unicaen.fr (hypatia [193.55.128.16]) by calvin.info.unicaen.fr (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id LAA23825 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:32:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:32:23 +0000 From: Jerzy Karczmarczuk Organization: University of Caen, France X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: fr-FR, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdfTeX Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen answers the question of Jody Klymak about etex: > TeX itself is frozen. New developments take place under the NTS project > (New Typesetting System). ETeX is the intermediate tex, a step towards > NTS. ... > In general, pdfetex will be the ultimate tex: dvi and pdf and additional > low level functionality, maybe be extended dvi (a third output mode) > etc. No reason to install something else. > > Hans == Oh, come on! There will be never anything *ultimate*. Hans is right (obviously...) about the *current* status. TeX itself is 3.1416 and after the big journey which Donald Knuth will make in very distant future, it will pass to \pi and it will acquire the status of the Cheops pyramid,... but perhaps we should take into account that 1. Many new intermediate output languages based on the SGML philosophy might prove to be useful. 2. The integration of graphics into TeX progresses constantly, and somebody might wish to fusion it with MetaPost (or some other graphic language, perhaps 3D). 3. The relation between TeX as it is now, and the Multilinguism - as the world needs it - must progress. There is nothing ultimate in omegaTeX. What is the relation between pdfTeX and Unicode? 4. There is nothing ultimate (I sincerely hope...) in PDF itself. So, even before the advent of NTS we might see several alternative evolutions of (XXXX)TeX. The eTeX project opened a hole, and nothing will stop the human desire to make a mess. Perhaps one day somebody makes a hybrid between TeX and Lout. (It might sound silly, but the idea of generating PostScript *directly* perhaps is not as silly as that.) Of course, I might be wrong. There are some stable structures in this world, for example the ultra-modern, super-sophisticated and extremely user friendly command language of Microsoft DOS or Windows. Best regards Jerzy Karczmarczuk Caen, France From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 05:16:38 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA23527 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:16:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA06873 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:26:03 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA06870 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:26:02 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.202]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA21B5; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:25:25 +0100 Message-ID: <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:54:09 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Keith Refson CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Keith Refson wrote: > > In general, pdfetex will be the ultimate tex: dvi and pdf and additional > > low level functionality, maybe be extended dvi (a third output mode) > > etc. No reason to install something else. > > But where does Omega fit into all this? Nowhere I'm afraid. Some elements of OMEGA, like OTP's, will probably make it in some way into the new systems, going 16 bit (fonts) etc will be handled along with better font and encoding handling than currently possible. Finaly NTS wil go beyond ETEX/OMEGA/.. Think also of natural ways of dealing with color, real multi column handling, etc. But, I guess Phil, being the manager of ETEX/NTS, can (and may) be more informative on this. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 06:31:35 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24816 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:31:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA07232 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:36:25 -0500 Received: from cromath.math.hr (caklovic@cromath.math.hr [161.53.8.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA07229 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:36:04 -0500 Received: (from caklovic@localhost) by cromath.math.hr (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA02063; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:35:37 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:35:36 +0200 (METDST) From: Lavoslav Caklovic Subject: Installation problems To: pdftex@tug.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Can anyone help please? whem running 'pdftex example' the message is: kpathsea: Running mktexmf logo10 mktexmf: empty or nonexistent root file! After I tried to start 'mktex' (not 'mktexmf') and the answer is THis program was incorrectly copied to the name mktex. I tried to inzip this file once again and the answer is the same. Also, 'kpsewhich --expand-var $TEXMFCNF' can not notice the change in 'texmf.cnf' file. Lavoslav Caklovic caklovic@math.hr From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 06:37:10 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24922 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 06:37:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA07146 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:13:26 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA07143 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:13:13 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:12:55 +0100 Received: from PC709 (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with ESMTP id <01J4CXMP2KEO00370F@wkap.nl> for pdftex@tug.org; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:11:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:11:42 +0100 (W. Europe Standard Time) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? In-reply-to: <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> To: pdfTeX Message-id: <13908.2814.250000.975134@PC709> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "JK" == Jerzy Karczmarczuk writes: JK> but perhaps we should take into account that JK> 1. Many new intermediate output languages based on the SGML JK> philosophy might prove to be useful. This is an interesting point, but how do you envisage this? What kind of TeX back-end SGML would prove useful and why? High-level SGML cannot be handled by the executable. JK> 2. The integration of graphics into TeX progresses constantly, JK> and somebody might wish to fusion it with MetaPost (or some JK> other graphic language, perhaps 3D). There are already plans in that direction. JK> 3. The relation between TeX as it is now, and the Multilinguism JK> - as the world needs it - must progress. There is nothing JK> ultimate in omegaTeX. What is the relation between pdfTeX JK> and Unicode? Nil. JK> 4. There is nothing ultimate (I sincerely hope...) in PDF itself. That's definately true. JK> So, even before the advent of NTS we might see several alternative JK> evolutions of (XXXX)TeX. The eTeX project opened a hole, and JK> nothing will stop the human desire to make a mess. Perhaps one day JK> somebody makes a hybrid between TeX and Lout. This hybrid is extremely unlikely in itself, but: JK> (It might sound silly, but the idea of generating PostScript JK> *directly* perhaps is not as silly as that.) I completely agree on this. Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 07:05:10 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25459 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:05:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA07334 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:59:45 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA07331 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 07:59:43 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.2]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA48BB; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:59:07 +0100 Message-ID: <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:54:56 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jerzy Karczmarczuk CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: > There will be never anything *ultimate*. You're right, therefore we can go on and on with development -). Personally I aim at a real time typesetting system that is on the one end able to reflect the author's intentions while at the same times enables users to really communicate with the document. Something three dimensional floating in your head. This leave alone of course traditional beautifully typeset books on paper, which I simply love. > 1. Many new intermediate output languages based on the SGML > philosophy might prove to be useful. Right too, but tex is a typographic programming language and not so much a descriptive one. TeX is just a backend. > 2. The integration of graphics into TeX progresses constantly, > and somebody might wish to fusion it with MetaPost (or some > other graphic language, perhaps 3D). We're working on that one. Nice discussions anyway, about how the two processes should communicate. > 3. The relation between TeX as it is now, and the Multilinguism > - as the world needs it - must progress. There is nothing > ultimate in omegaTeX. What is the relation between pdfTeX > and Unicode? Probably NTS with the pdftex backend. > 4. There is nothing ultimate (I sincerely hope...) in PDF itself. Definitely not. It's just a hack -) > So, even before the advent of NTS we might see several alternative > evolutions of (XXXX)TeX. The eTeX project opened a hole, and > nothing will stop the human desire to make a mess. Perhaps one day That's the big problem. The whole world spoiling the program. There are enough examples of messes being made in the tex world (fonts, specials, etc). > somebody makes a hybrid between TeX and Lout. (It might sound > silly, but the idea of generating PostScript *directly* perhaps > is not as silly as that.) > > Of course, I might be wrong. There are some stable structures > in this world, for example the ultra-modern, super-sophisticated > and extremely user friendly command language of Microsoft DOS > or Windows. I cannot react on that one ... machine becoming unstable ... have to ... restart ... once ....... again ... Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 08:02:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26732 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:02:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07846 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:29:10 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07843 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:29:08 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:21:45 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04678; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:21:15 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:21:14 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Keith Refson , pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? In-Reply-To: <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans wrote -- > > But where does Omega fit into all this? > > Nowhere I'm afraid. You realise all this gets forwarded to the omega list?:-) > Finaly NTS wil go beyond ETEX/OMEGA/. Ever the optimist? Or pessimist: maybe NTS would be better going a different route rather than merely going beyond? chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 08:49:31 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA27860 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:49:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07995 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:47:25 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA07992 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:47:18 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:46:54 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04689; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:46:24 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:46:23 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Jerzy Karczmarczuk , pdfTeX Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? In-Reply-To: <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen wrote -- > Personally I aim at a real time typesetting system that is on the one > end able to reflect the author's intentions while at the same times > enables users to really communicate with the document. Something three > dimensional floating in your head. This leave alone of course > traditional beautifully typeset books on paper, which I simply love. I do not think that it "leaves it alone" at all. Much of the R&D needed is common to high-quality printed documents and high-quality interactive documents. And the needs of both real-time output and finely-tuned, batch setting for complex documents need a lot of similar fundamnetal thought (and action:-). Just as the same design principles, although with very different costraints leading to very different solutions, apply to designing for the interactive screens and paper. I am not sure that merely "extending TeX" is a good route to this "ultimate goal" but I do think that working on such extensions is the right thing to do now since it is an important and productive way of clarifying a lot os the issues involved at a very detailed level. > > > 1. Many new intermediate output languages based on the SGML > > philosophy might prove to be useful. > > Right too, but tex is a typographic programming language and not so much > a descriptive one. TeX is just a backend. Not knwing, to put it politely, my back from my font, all I can do is agree and hope I mean the same by back as Han does:-). The way I would put it (and indeed did, in professional company only last night) is that if the TeX community put as much effort into providing efficient ways to produce high-quality output _from_ XML+XSL as it is currently putting into converting LaTeX into such descriptive formats, then there would be a lot more support everywhere for developing TeX to meet new requirements. > > > 4. There is nothing ultimate (I sincerely hope...) in PDF itself. > I have committed myself to writing up something on this subject. > > The eTeX project opened a hole, and > > nothing will stop the human desire to make a mess. Perhaps one day I think I should prevent such blatant rewriting of history: the omega developers showed us not to be scared of messing with TeX; but only ten years after Don Knuth encourgaed people very clealry to produce something better (with another name). And one must also give very honourable mention to TeX-XeT and ML-TeX (maybe those logos are not quite right?). > > That's the big problem. The whole world spoiling the program. Or, as sebastian would say: that is the big solution, the whole world improving the program. > > > somebody makes a hybrid between TeX and Lout. I have looked into that, but there si a lot more to it than: > the idea of generating PostScript *directly* But Lout is definitely a "must investigate" for anyone thinking seriously about the future of automated document processing. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 09:00:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28108 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:00:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08249 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:28:25 -0500 Received: from esemetz.ese-metz.fr (esemetz.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.212]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08246 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:28:12 -0500 Received: from NEUROMANCER.ese-metz.fr (neuromancer.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.95]) by esemetz.ese-metz.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA10246; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:27:56 +0100 To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex References: <365400AD.47547A06@wxs.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Fabrice POPINEAU Date: 19 Nov 1998 16:27:44 +0100 In-Reply-To: Hans Hagen's message of "Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:27:41 +0100" Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.44/XEmacs 21.0 - "Poitou" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen writes: > Are you sure pdfetex is in the distribution? Looks like pdftex to me. > > Hans Ok ... I have messed up the file name, only different by one letter :-( I'm currently replacing pdfetex-win32.zip with the right one, which is : ftp://ftp.ese-metz.fr/pub/TeX/win32/pdfetex-0.12r2-win32.zip -rw-r--r-- 1 ftpmaint infosys 2142222 Nov 19 16:19 /local/ftp/pub/TeX/win32/pdfetex-0.12r2-win32.zip Sorry for the inconvenience ... Fabrice From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 09:59:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29648 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:59:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08653 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:21:13 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA08650 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:21:11 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:21:02 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA04831; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:20:31 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:20:30 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Keith Refson , pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? In-Reply-To: <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans > then I lacked the documentation of new functionality. What/where is the > official reference manual? Yes indeed: well you have already heard my views on documentation! > I really like the idea of otp stuff. Now, that is one bit that is quite well documented ... somewhere! > > We discussed this at TUG98. Mmm, sort of. > In my personal opinion, the success of a new > tex program > probably depends on macro package support and compatibility (not in > typographic sense, but at least in being able to process/update old > stuff). Therefore the starting point should be tex compatible. From > thereone, with lots of discussion of all those wizzards, we should start > experimenting with new things. I agree with all that; I guess it is a matter of where the major effort goes at each stage. > Personally I think it will take many > years before a real (different) successor is there, if only because > there is no one-in-all-wizzard like Knuth doing the job and (for macro > development healthy) this-is-fixed-for-some-time statement. Well, he takes repsonsibility for it all but, as you will see if yiou read what he wrote, there were a lot of people invlved in the effort. And he never made any "fixed for some time" statement. He made the one that everyone quotes that "TeX is fixed for all time" and many that no one seems to have noticed that he wanted people to develop something better, compatible or not, but such devlopments should not be called simply TeX. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 10:01:01 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29737 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:00:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08564 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:11:21 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08559 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:11:16 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.109]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3390; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:11:09 +0100 Message-ID: <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:11:46 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Jerzy Karczmarczuk , pdfTeX Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > Hans Hagen wrote -- > > > Personally I aim at a real time typesetting system that is on the one > > end able to reflect the author's intentions while at the same times > > enables users to really communicate with the document. Something three > > dimensional floating in your head. This leave alone of course > > traditional beautifully typeset books on paper, which I simply love. > > I do not think that it "leaves it alone" at all. Much of the R&D > needed is common to high-quality printed documents and high-quality > interactive documents. And the needs of both real-time output and > finely-tuned, batch setting for complex documents need a lot of > similar fundamnetal thought (and action:-). Just as the same design > principles, although with very different costraints leading to very > different solutions, apply to designing for the interactive screens > and paper. yes Yes YEs YES Now how do we convince the publishers ot that -) > I am not sure that merely "extending TeX" is a good route to this > "ultimate goal" but I do think that working on such extensions is the > right thing to do now since it is an important and productive way of > clarifying a lot os the issues involved at a very detailed level. Again yes. Therefore the real NTS will not be there for a long time. > The way I would put it (and indeed did, in professional company only > last night) is that if the TeX community put as much effort into > providing efficient ways to produce high-quality output _from_ XML+XSL > as it is currently putting into converting LaTeX into such descriptive > formats, then there would be a lot more support everywhere for > developing TeX to meet new requirements. Well, I'm in the middle of writing this SGML/XML module. Brings up some interesting problems related to expansion and so (my demo document is the NTG MAPS bibliography, multiple passes over data, thousands of cross-links, different interpretation sof data, etc). In general SGML processing is not that hard for TeX. The problem lays in doing the nice things, which has nothing to do with SGML at all. For TeX SGML is just another input format. Unfortunately TeX is not that much build for manipulating data, but again, this is not related to SGML. Concerning pdf and xml. My next objective is bringing structure in pdf. > > > The eTeX project opened a hole, and > > > nothing will stop the human desire to make a mess. Perhaps one day > > I think I should prevent such blatant rewriting of history: the omega > developers showed us not to be scared of messing with TeX; but only ten > years after Don Knuth encourgaed people very clealry to produce > something better (with another name). And one must also give very > honourable mention to TeX-XeT and ML-TeX (maybe those logos are not > quite right?). Indeed, DEK himself encouraged to extend tex! Specials and writes are just an example of extensions. I always wondered why there was so much focus on not changing things. I think the mess mostly concerns to the areas where simple agreements would have made life more easy (fonts and specials). BTW, I recently saw some old tugboats, and there have been lots of interesting developments right from the beginning. Somehow pdftex has escaped from fate, and survives, and in itself it's interesting to think about why pdftex and not omega etc. > > That's the big problem. The whole world spoiling the program. > > Or, as sebastian would say: that is the big solution, the whole world > improving the program. Well, if the problem could be split up in individual pieces, not harming whatever is there. But, we're dealing with visual things, and with interfacing etc, so some kind of coordination has to take place. (I already must find a decent way around some new etex primitives that happen to have similar names to some of my low level macros.) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 10:01:24 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29755 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:01:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA08554 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:10:59 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA08550 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:10:57 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.109]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2E5F; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 17:10:41 +0100 Message-ID: <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:56:24 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Keith Refson , pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > > But where does Omega fit into all this? > > > > Nowhere I'm afraid. > > You realise all this gets forwarded to the omega list?:-) Well, we have to be honest, don't we? I was btw not saying that omega was not going anywhere, actually I once generated an omega format, but then I lacked the documentation of new functionality. What/where is the official reference manual? I really like the idea of otp stuff. > > Finaly NTS wil go beyond ETEX/OMEGA/. > > Ever the optimist? Or pessimist: maybe NTS would be better going a > different route rather than merely going beyond? We discussed this at TUG98. In my personal opinion, the success of a new tex program probably depends on macro package support and compatibility (not in typographic sense, but at least in being able to process/update old stuff). Therefore the starting point should be tex compatible. From thereone, with lots of discussion of all those wizzards, we should start experimenting with new things. Personally I think it will take many years before a real (different) successor is there, if only because there is no one-in-all-wizzard like Knuth doing the job and (for macro development healthy) this-is-fixed-for-some-time statement. etc etc Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 11:41:53 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02256 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:41:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09390 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:06:25 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA09387 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:06:23 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 19 Nov 98 18:06:21 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19981119180620.B4426@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:06:20 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl>; from Hans Hagen on Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 05:11:46PM +0100 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 05:11:46PM +0100, Hans Hagen wrote: > BTW, I recently saw some old tugboats, and there have been lots of > interesting developments right from the beginning. Somehow pdftex has > escaped from fate, and survives, and in itself it's interesting to think > about why pdftex and not omega etc. Because pdftex answered an urgent and common need. Omega may be nice, but it is not necessary. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 19 11:54:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02554 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:54:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA09418 for pdftex-list; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:10:18 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA09414 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:10:16 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 19 Nov 98 18:10:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:10:11 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: Chris Rowley Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk>; from Chris Rowley on Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 04:20:30PM +0000 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 04:20:30PM +0000, Chris Rowley wrote: > > In my personal opinion, the success of a new > > tex program > > probably depends on macro package support and compatibility (not in > > typographic sense, but at least in being able to process/update old > > stuff). Therefore the starting point should be tex compatible. From > > thereone, with lots of discussion of all those wizzards, we should start > > experimenting with new things. > > I agree with all that; I guess it is a matter of where the major > effort goes at each stage. May I suggest that there is a lot to be said for Java, or a Java-like approach, in which NewTeX extends OldTeX (as in "class NewTeX extends OldTeX") -- in other words NewTeX is built on top of OldTeX, rather than being an entirely new structure, and defaults to OldTeX except where new methods are explicitly provided. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 06:43:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26307 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:43:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA10687 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:12:02 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10684 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:11:59 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats (toucan.stats [163.1.20.20]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA27408; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:11:37 GMT Message-Id: <199811201311.NAA27408@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:11:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian Ripley Reply-To: Prof Brian Ripley Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr Cc: pdftex@tug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: kSB+dap+1/LXAYEIghl02w== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:53:36 +0100 (MET) > From: Thierry Bouche > To: pdftex@tug.org > Cc: kehr@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de > Subject: hyperref & index' backrefs > > > Hi, there is very few code for index in hyperref. But a feature > similar to backref, allowing to put links pointing backwards to the > actual words in the text that were indexed would be extremely useful. > > I understand (do i?) that hyperref will easily put anchors at each > \index command. But, as the actual .ind file is generated by an > external program, this program must be extended in order to generate > not only the page numbers, but making them active links. hyperref with option hyperindex does that without altering anything. Just using makeindex gives me a .ind like \item \texttt{accdeaths},\quad \see {Datasets}{94} \item additive models,\quad \hyperpage{24}, \hyperpage{84--87} \item \texttt{Aids},\quad \see {Datasets}{94} and even ranges work as hyperlinks. For lots of examples, all but one generated by pdflatex, see the PDF files offered at http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/pub/MASS2/Compl.shtml BTW, I had to hack backref to avoid duplicate page numbers. -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 06:46:00 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26340 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA10639 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:51:02 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10636 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:50:57 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06057; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:50:20 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id NAA05844; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:53:36 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:53:36 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: pdftex@tug.org Cc: kehr@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de Subject: hyperref & index' backrefs X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, there is very few code for index in hyperref. But a feature similar to backref, allowing to put links pointing backwards to the actual words in the text that were indexed would be extremely useful. I understand (do i?) that hyperref will easily put anchors at each \index command. But, as the actual .ind file is generated by an external program, this program must be extended in order to generate not only the page numbers, but making them active links. What are the best solutions here? Someone talked sometimes ago of a patched makeindex. Maybe, xindy makes it possible by a simple style modification? Or is it possible to directly postprocess the .ind file with perl, e.g. ? thanks for any hint! Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/pdfTeX From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 06:56:26 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA26572 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:56:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA10767 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:28:35 -0500 Received: from itcnt04.itc.nl (itcnt04.itc.nl [192.87.16.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10764 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:28:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199811201328.IAA10764@tug.org> Received: from itc.nl (pha104.itc.nl [172.16.5.11]) by itcnt04.itc.nl with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id XAK1MKSM; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:31:24 +0100 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:30:14 +0100 (MET) From: Ben Gorte Reply-To: gorte@itc.nl Subject: pdf picture To: pdftex@tug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I am trying many ways to include a pdf picture, for example using \pdfimage width 3cm height 3cm picture.pdf or \resizebox{3cm}{!}{\includegraphics{picture.pdf}} but whatever I try, my picture is corrupted when I view the document in acrobat reader. The picture itself, before I put it in the document, looks good in acrobat. It was made with eps2pdf, using gs 5.50 I have pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12o-8 (Web2C 7.2) from teTeX 0.9 beta, in Linux. Is this a known problem or am I doing something wrong? (probably both) Ben -- dr. ir. B.G.H. Gorte, Geoinformatics and Spatial Data Acquisition ITC, Enschede, the Netherlands From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 07:13:38 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26933 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:13:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA10856 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:38:40 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.uu.nl (sunset.cs.uu.nl [131.211.80.32]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10853 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:38:37 -0500 From: piet@cs.uu.nl Received: from XLOO (xloo.cs.uu.nl 131.211.80.152) by mail.cs.uu.nl (Postfix) via SMTP id 2F7162895B; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:38:32 +0100 (MET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:38:20 +0100 (Romance Standard Time) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? In-Reply-To: <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> Timothy Murphy (TM) writes: TM> On Thu, Nov 19, 1998 at 04:20:30PM +0000, Chris Rowley wrote: >> > In my personal opinion, the success of a new >> > tex program >> > probably depends on macro package support and compatibility (not in >> > typographic sense, but at least in being able to process/update old >> > stuff). Therefore the starting point should be tex compatible. From >> > thereone, with lots of discussion of all those wizzards, we should start >> > experimenting with new things. >> >> I agree with all that; I guess it is a matter of where the major >> effort goes at each stage. TM> May I suggest that there is a lot to be said for Java, TM> or a Java-like approach, TM> in which NewTeX extends OldTeX TM> (as in "class NewTeX extends OldTeX") -- TM> in other words NewTeX is built on top of OldTeX, TM> rather than being an entirely new structure, TM> and defaults to OldTeX except where new methods TM> are explicitly provided. That is considered good software engineering as long as the OldTeX class is well designed. In this case I would say it isn't. I find a much better approach to design a new typesetting machine, with proper primitives for manipulating the kinds of objects that the machine uses (e.g. tokens, token lists, boxes, glue, glyphs etc.), and buid a simulation of OldTeX on top of that. So the oldTeX commands would be aliases for the new Java things, and TeX's macro processing would be an additional class around the basic machine. TeX's handling of its internal objects lacks a lot. That is the main reason ETeX has to come with all these new ways to process token lists etc. Even TeX itself has a lot of weird commands just to get around its problems, like \expandafter, \aftergroup etc. Just having primitives, to build and take apart boxes would make it much easier to e.g. disassemble a vbox and to put linenumbers in front of each line, or to do multicolumn processing with floats properly. -- Piet van Oostrum URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP] Private email: Piet.van.Oostrum@gironet.nl From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 07:23:10 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27169 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:23:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA10972 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:48:35 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10969 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:48:33 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.88]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6FE; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:47:29 +0100 Message-ID: <36551DAB.E4C5C922@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:43:39 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timothy Murphy CC: Chris Rowley , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Timothy Murphy wrote: > May I suggest that there is a lot to be said for Java, > or a Java-like approach, > in which NewTeX extends OldTeX > (as in "class NewTeX extends OldTeX") -- > in other words NewTeX is built on top of OldTeX, > rather than being an entirely new structure, > and defaults to OldTeX except where new methods > are explicitly provided. If I'm right, that's one of the reasons java was chosen for nts. From talking with Karl S (who's doing the conversion) I understood that he tries to isolate functionality. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 08:06:18 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28124 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:06:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11226 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:13:12 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11223 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:13:10 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id OAA21244; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:12:04 GMT Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:12:04 GMT Message-Id: <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr CC: pdftex@tug.org, kehr@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de In-reply-to: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> (message from Thierry Bouche on Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:53:36 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs References: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk But, as the actual .ind file is generated by an external program, this program must be extended in order to generate no you can use makeindex' |command feature to place the link command around each link. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 08:23:35 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28513 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:23:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11588 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:49:44 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11585 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:49:41 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA14421; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:48:52 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id PAA10657; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:52:09 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:52:09 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811201452.PAA10657@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: David Carlisle Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, pdftex@tug.org, kehr@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs In-Reply-To: <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> References: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Concernant « Re: hyperref & index' backrefs », David Carlisle écrit : « » »> But, as the actual .ind file is generated by an »> external program, this program must be extended in order to generate » » no you can use makeindex' |command feature to place the link command » around each link. This is right, but why do most indexentries come out `naked' in source2e.pdf? From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 08:31:41 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28685 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:31:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11640 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:55:13 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11637 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:55:09 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id OAA21040; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:54:37 GMT Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:54:37 GMT Message-Id: <199811201454.OAA21040@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr CC: pdftex@tug.org, kehr@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de In-reply-to: <199811201452.PAA10657@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> (message from Thierry Bouche on Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:52:09 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs References: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> <199811201452.PAA10657@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk This is right, but why do most indexentries come out `naked' in source2e.pdf? I did once have a hacked version of doc.sty that more or less worked with that. The problem as I recall is that doc is already using | to add font changes to the index entries, so you have to trap all those individually to be font-change-and-hyperlink commands. David (perhaps we should move this off the list) From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 09:17:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29791 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:17:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12161 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:30:55 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12156 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:30:52 -0500 Received: from turing.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 20 Nov 98 15:30:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by turing.maths.tcd.ie (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA00717 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:30:49 GMT Message-ID: <19981120153049.B112@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:30:49 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs References: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> <199811201452.PAA10657@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811201452.PAA10657@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr>; from Thierry Bouche on Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 03:52:09PM +0100 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Incidentally, why don't They provide hyperref-fed documents, eg amsldoc, grfguide, etc? (What do we pay Them for?) It would save a lot of time if one could jump from the index and/or toc. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 09:25:07 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00067 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:25:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA12074 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:24:18 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12071 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:24:16 -0500 Received: from turing.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 20 Nov 98 15:24:13 +0000 (GMT) Received: (from tim@localhost) by turing.maths.tcd.ie (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA00658 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:24:13 GMT Message-ID: <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:24:13 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO>; from piet@cs.uu.nl on Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 02:38:20PM +0100 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 02:38:20PM +0100, piet@cs.uu.nl wrote: > TeX's handling of its internal objects lacks a lot. That is the main > reason ETeX has to come with all these new ways to process token lists > etc. Even TeX itself has a lot of weird commands just to get around > its problems, like \expandafter, \aftergroup etc. My view, for what it is worth, is that ETeX has very little chance of displacing TeX/LaTeX on these kinds of grounds. Speaking as a member of the great unwashed, I can say that most of us don't really care how TeX processes token lists, as long as "E = mc^2" comes out all right. We employ - metaphorically speaking -- Piet, Donald, etc, to tell us when (hopefully never) we must say \expandafter. But given a choice between Knuth soap powder and ETeX/NTS soap powder most of us will stick with our old friend the mathematician. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 09:53:05 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01010 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:53:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12592 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:06:00 -0500 Received: from top.coli.uni-sb.de (IDENT:TBzXiVXGTsmb4b9hIWd3kjsLPm1xxPDE@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12586 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:05:46 -0500 Received: from top (crysmann@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by top.coli.uni-sb.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA08672; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:05:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36559350.740F@coli.uni-sb.de> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:05:36 +0100 From: Berthold Crysmann Organization: Graduiertenkolleg Kognitionswissenschaft, Universitaet des Saarlandes X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh CC: pdfTeX Subject: Problem with Type3 fonts References: <199811181418.PAA09580@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk A while ago, I reported problems connected to printing Type3 (pk) fonts >From Acrobat Reader 3.01. Now I checked with pdftex 0.12r again a, and found the problem is still there. Acrobat doesn't seem to find all T3 fonts included in the document. DocumentInfo|Fonts|ListAllFonts only displays one (the first??) T3 font for the whole document. When printing a page range with DownloadFontsOnce enabled (default) some of the characters are left empty. If included as Type1 all the fonts are properly identified. Also, downloading the fonts once doesn't lead to any problems with printed output. Is this a bug with Acrobat Reader? Or is it rather a problem with pdftex's mechanism for Type3 font inclusion? Berthold -- Berthold Crysmann Universitaet des Saarlandes, Computerlinguistik Geb. 17.2, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken Tel. +49-681-302-4502 / Fax +49-681-302-4700 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 11:00:06 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02703 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:59:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA13112 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:18:09 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA13109 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:18:07 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.92]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA74C9; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:17:23 +0100 Message-ID: <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:21:44 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timothy Murphy CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Timothy Murphy wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 20, 1998 at 02:38:20PM +0100, piet@cs.uu.nl wrote: > > > TeX's handling of its internal objects lacks a lot. That is the main > > reason ETeX has to come with all these new ways to process token lists > > etc. Even TeX itself has a lot of weird commands just to get around > > its problems, like \expandafter, \aftergroup etc. > > My view, for what it is worth, > is that ETeX has very little chance of displacing TeX/LaTeX > on these kinds of grounds. ETeX in itself has little to do with latex or whatever package, apart >From the fact that acceptance of etex is more or less forced as soon as mainstream packages start using etex functionality. So, as soon as packages become etex aware (just like they became pdftex aware) etex the program will definitely replace tex the program. > Speaking as a member of the great unwashed, > I can say that most of us don't really care how TeX processes token lists, > as long as "E = mc^2" comes out all right. Yes, but the macro package writes do care. Sometimes it's a real pain to get things working in such a way that 'common' users can savely use their macros. > We employ - metaphorically speaking -- Piet, Donald, etc, > to tell us when (hopefully never) we must say \expandafter. Right. So Piet, Donald etc are the etex users and provide the input. > But given a choice between Knuth soap powder > and ETeX/NTS soap powder most of us will stick > with our old friend the mathematician. Ha, I'm a heavy tex user, and no mathematician at all. And I know some more ... I think quite some of them will stick to etex, if only because they currently are not aware of tex at all (tex the language, tex the program is for many people rather unknown. It's the package that they know, and when the package uses etex ... I will definitely advice context users to use pdfetex!) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 17:42:30 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA12609 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:42:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA13608 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:09:23 -0500 Received: from monster.igd.fhg.de (monster.igd.fhg.de [153.97.128.43]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA13605 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:09:21 -0500 Received: from smurfsoft.dauenhauer.de (isdnprj110) by monster.igd.fhg.de (5.x/SMI-4.1) id AA01330; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:09:18 +0100 Received: from zgdv.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smurfsoft.dauenhauer.de (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA32678; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:09:11 +0100 Message-Id: <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:09:11 +0100 From: Christian Kumpf Organization: ZGDV X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Hagen Cc: Timothy Murphy , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, is there a single point of reference for eTeX that describes the differences to goTeX (good old TeX)? I mean, from the `users' point of view, i.e. which (major) macro packages depend on eTeX, as well as of the 'TeXnicians' point of view, i.e. what extensions (concepts, primitives, etc.) does eTeX currently provide. To shorten this thread I suggest to send eTeX-related information directly to me. I will arrange them to a FAQ+Answer and will hand it over to Jody. TIA, Christian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 21 08:31:11 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28183 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:31:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14244 for pdftex-list; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:50:59 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14241 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:50:58 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:45:12 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA06699; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:44:41 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:44:40 +0000 (GMT) To: piet@cs.uu.nl Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: NewTeX In-Reply-To: <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13910.53295.119667.738336@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Piet wrote -- > > That is considered good software engineering as long as the OldTeX > class is well designed. In this case I would say it isn't. It may, of course, be necessary to support a reasonable emulation of OldTeX. But this may be best done by simply keeping essentially the executable and passing the doucument on to it if necessary. > > I find a much better approach to design a new typesetting machine, > with proper primitives for manipulating the kinds of objects that the > machine uses (e.g. tokens, token lists, boxes, glue, glyphs etc.), Join the club! And persuade the NTS elite and their financial backers of this necessity! I would say that we also need to investigate these TeX data-structures themselves, since they certainly need to be extended if not replaced. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 21 08:31:55 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28192 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA14290 for pdftex-list; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:00:00 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14287 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:59:58 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:58:56 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA06714; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:58:24 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:58:24 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Timothy Murphy , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: NewTeX In-Reply-To: <36551DAB.E4C5C922@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <36551DAB.E4C5C922@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13910.54163.789270.93036@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > From talking with Karl S (who's doing the conversion) I understood that he > tries to isolate functionality. That was also my impression; I believe that he has a lot of good ideas and I am sure that he would welcome help from others in doing this (especially from people like Tim, who was/is working on similar ideas). However, finding out what Karel is doing and helping him seem to be impossible due to the way the project is managed. Phil and Jiri have perhaps very effectively recreated the iron curtain:-)? chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 21 08:33:16 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28237 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:33:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14250 for pdftex-list; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:53:27 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14247 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:53:18 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:37:36 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA06690; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:37:00 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:36:59 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Timothy Murphy , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? In-Reply-To: <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13910.52390.802130.180862@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans wrote -- > > Yes, but the macro package writes do care. Sometimes it's a real pain to > get things working in such a way that 'common' users can savely use > their macros. Also, many of the things in the current and future versions of etex are there at the request of macro writers; so we expect them to be used as son as pdfetex is packaged in such that it itself becomes widely used even when it is not needed. Those with an influence, such as Tim, will also need to support its use in the fora where they mount their soapboxes. > > > We employ - metaphorically speaking -- Piet, Donald, etc, > > to tell us when (hopefully never) we must say \expandafter. > > Right. So Piet, Donald etc are the etex users and provide the input. Absolutely right (both Tim and Hans); but therefore need to feel that people like TIm support the move to etex before they will start to use it. Also, as I am well aware, much of the LaTeX kernel could be usefully rewritten to use etex features with little noticable immediate differences for the LaTeX user but enormous advantages to package writers. This clearly needs to be done in collaboration with package writers, pundits, spin-doctors and ultimately the users. This is all, of course, relevant to pdftex itself since LaTeX could be made much better integrated with pdftex. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Nov 21 09:10:49 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28886 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:10:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA14724 for pdftex-list; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:46:43 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA14721 for ; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:46:42 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:46:40 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA06840; Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:46:08 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:46:07 +0000 (GMT) To: Christian Kumpf Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? In-Reply-To: <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Christian > > is there a single point of reference for eTeX that describes the > differences to goTeX (good old TeX)? I mean, from the `users' point of > view, i.e. which (major) macro packages depend on eTeX, I do not think that there are as yet any such macro packages. But Phil Taylor may know otherwise. > as well as of > the 'TeXnicians' point of view, i.e. what extensions (concepts, > primitives, etc.) does eTeX currently provide. Try CTAN, eg: http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/systems/e-tex/ chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 02:34:53 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA13307 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:34:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA16513 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:58:50 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA16510 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:58:48 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.156]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA718C; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:58:12 +0100 Message-ID: <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:45:32 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Christian Kumpf , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > is there a single point of reference for eTeX that describes the > > differences to goTeX (good old TeX)? I mean, from the `users' point of > > view, i.e. which (major) macro packages depend on eTeX, > > I do not think that there are as yet any such macro packages. But > Phil Taylor may know otherwise. Just curious: will latex still be tex compatible? For the moment in context I provide tex compatibility. So, depending on (e)TeX the program used (or mode enabled) I run in tex or etex mode. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 02:34:54 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA13309 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:34:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA16504 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:58:19 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA16500 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:58:17 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.156]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2D20; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:58:07 +0100 Message-ID: <36591F3A.B425DDD0@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:39:22 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Timothy Murphy , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <13910.52390.802130.180862@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > Yes, but the macro package writes do care. Sometimes it's a real pain to > > get things working in such a way that 'common' users can savely use > > their macros. > > Also, many of the things in the current and future versions of etex > are there at the request of macro writers; so we expect them to be > used as son as pdfetex is packaged in such that it itself becomes > widely used even when it is not needed. Indeed. The merge of etex/pdftex will boost etex. > Also, as I am well aware, much of the LaTeX kernel could be usefully > rewritten to use etex features with little noticable immediate > differences for the LaTeX user but enormous advantages to package > writers. Well, enormous ... ? Let me summarize some observations I made the last few days. I spend some time on making context etex aware as well as sort of 'precompiling' tex source code. - both optimizations currently can speed up context processing by 5% (adding up to 10) - most of the optimization is due to \protected (which I guess in context is used for a different purpose than latex will use it) and optimizations in etex that are not reflected in new primitives - about 500 hash entries can be saved due to \protect, some more at runtime - in tricky runs with many colors witches per page, etex native multiple mark support outperforms the tex based one pretty well, on my test document it brings down run time 40% (200% on critical pages). - expressions are in many cases slower, and too limited (like in the order of multiplication) - \ifcsname can not automatically replace \ea\ifx\csname..., especially when \csname... interferes - right-left typesetting can interfere rather funny with color mechanisms based on marks and specials, a work around is possible. These experiments give me some impressions on what is still needed -). Users should be aware of potential name clashes. Etex provides for instance \protected and \unexpanded, and both are also context low level commands, which is rather annoying. (In the next maps of the ntg I will describe these things.) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 02:38:07 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA13357 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:38:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA16509 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:58:24 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA16506 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:58:22 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.156]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA7181; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:58:10 +0100 Message-ID: <36592011.716A6C24@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:42:57 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Christian Kumpf CC: Timothy Murphy , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Christian Kumpf wrote: > is there a single point of reference for eTeX that describes the > differences to goTeX (good old TeX)? I mean, from the `users' point of > view, i.e. which (major) macro packages depend on eTeX, as well as of > the 'TeXnicians' point of view, i.e. what extensions (concepts, > primitives, etc.) does eTeX currently provide. Follow the etex (nts) thread on www.dante.de There are several articles published in tugboats and eurotex proceedings, Phil probably has a complete list of them. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 04:11:48 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA14838 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:11:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA17129 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:36:50 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA17126 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:36:49 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:36:31 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA08080; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:35:57 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:35:57 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Christian Kumpf , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros In-Reply-To: <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans > > Just curious: will latex still be tex compatible? For the moment in > context I provide tex compatibility. So, depending on (e)TeX the program > used (or mode enabled) I run in tex or etex mode. That rather depends on politics and strategy. Certainly anything we release whilst otex is still of necessity in use will support both, and probably there will be an otex version available for a long time after that. However, when we have an etex that supports a lot of new stuff, and we are writing latex that makes heavy use of it, then it may no longer be sensible or practical to support otex. Also, when etex reaches this stage and can easily be widely distributed then it will be important to encourage (very strongly:-) sites to switch to it and one strategy for doing so is to produce lots of stuff that people really want in a latex that needs etex (and/or omega and/or support for an extended DVI language).. How much of context did you change? Which bits of etex did you use (or which not, if that is shorter)? chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 04:53:26 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA15478 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 04:53:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA17268 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:13:53 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA17265 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:13:51 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:13:14 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA08106; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:12:41 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:12:41 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Timothy Murphy , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? In-Reply-To: <36591F3A.B425DDD0@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <13910.52390.802130.180862@fell.open.ac.uk> <36591F3A.B425DDD0@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13913.16286.921659.61963@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen wrote -- > > Also, as I am well aware, much of the LaTeX kernel could be usefully > > rewritten to use etex features with little noticable immediate > > differences for the LaTeX user but enormous advantages to package > > writers. > > Well, enormous ... ? The world needs a little hyperbole! Being one of these despised modern-style progammers, I was not thinking so much of run/complie efficiency but of people efficiency in making it much quicker to write correct, maintainbale code. > Let me summarize some observations I made the last > few days. I spend some time on making context etex aware as well as sort > of 'precompiling' tex source code. > > - both optimizations currently can speed up context > processing by 5% (adding up to 10) Wow! For context, 10% is, in absolute real secs, a lot a lot:-)...enough for an extra dose of caffiene? > - most of the optimization is due to \protected (which I > guess in context is used for a different purpose than > latex will use it) Fascinating: tell me more. > - about 500 hash entries can be saved due to \protect, > some more at runtime Only 500?:-) > - in tricky runs with many colors witches per page, etex > native multiple mark support outperforms the tex based > one pretty well, on my test document it brings down run > time 40% (200% on critical pages). We need to compare that with proper text-colour support ... some time. But that is very useful information since multiple-marks have many other uses. > - expressions are in many cases slower, and too limited > (like in the order of multiplication) Mmm, slower! Tell Peter! Yes, the restrictions should be removed: they were essential in the calc package but should not be needed in etex. > - \ifcsname can not automatically replace \ea\ifx\csname..., > especially when \csname... interferes Again, please explain in more detail, to me and Peter at least. > - right-left typesetting can interfere rather funny with color > mechanisms based on marks and specials, a work around is possible. That is, maybe, because it is not a true RL typesetting system but, rather an RL-within-LR system. Or maybe this also needs true text-colour. > > These experiments give me some impressions on what is still needed -). Good: keep up the pressure! > Users should be aware of potential name clashes. Etex provides for > instance \protected and \unexpanded, and both are also context low level > commands, which is rather annoying. Oh *****!! You need L3PL:-). chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 05:18:56 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA15920 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:18:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA17336 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:23:25 -0500 Received: from calvin.info.unicaen.fr (calvin.info.unicaen.fr [193.55.128.51]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA17332 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:23:22 -0500 Received: from info.unicaen.fr (hypatia [193.55.128.16]) by calvin.info.unicaen.fr (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id MAA24727 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:23:15 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <365953A4.B0EA61E4@info.unicaen.fr> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:23:00 +0000 From: Jerzy Karczmarczuk Organization: University of Caen, France X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: fr-FR, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> <19981119180620.B4426@maths.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk This will be a long posting, I am sorry. It is good that *this* list touches some fundamental questions, not only pure technicities. When I reacted to the word *ultimate* (pdfEtex), mentioning Unicode, mentioning SGML-based output languages, Lout, etc., I didn't expect that it will continue so long. Taco Hoekwater reacted: > This is an interesting point, but how do you envisage this? > What kind of TeX back-end SGML would prove useful and why? > High-level SGML cannot be handled by the executable. Which "the"? I really didn't want to be technical. But there is already at least one commercial venture who sells the TeX executable which generates HTML directly. I think that such initiatives as TeX2HTML of Dracos, or TechExplorer - being useful and meriting all our respect - are in the cul-de-sac. The PERL scripts in order to convert properly the LaTeX control structures must at least partially understand them, and this is a waste of resources, the TeX interpreter itself does it better. I mentioned SGML rather than HTML because there is nothing ultimate in the last one either, the language evolves, XML is there, and the meta- layer of SGML in a sense presents a similar philosophy as the basic layer of TeX: plenty of "meta"-structures. In TeX: macro-generating macros, dynamical names for the control structures (\csname), plug-in protocol for lots of routines (e.g. \output) etc. So, if - independently of TeX - the *rendering* of the documents changes, if it integrates more graphics, more interactivity, 3D, animations, *SOUND*, and God knows what more, TeX should adapt, and it may do so. Do you know the project CURL? (http://cag-www.lcs.mit.edu/curl/) This is a universalistic approach whose aim is to integrate the rendering of mathematics, document formatting, of course the hypernavigation tools, and the dynamism, the executable "applets" *integrated* with the document, and not being just foreign bodies as typical Java applets, or being administrated by a closed plug-in layer, as in TechExplorer, which precludes any communi- cation betweeen a TeX document and "normal" HTML, JavaScript, etc. Well, CURL is based on an eclectic language based on enriched Scheme. It includes a Tcl/Tk-like toolbox for the interactive widgets, and its authors mention several inspiration sources for their formatting protocols. TeX is *not* mentioned. Hans Hagen stated in response to my posting that TeX is a typographic language, and not so much a descriptive one. Just a back-end. I think I would disagree. TeX is a *universal* language, and although its synta/sema structure is different from what I as a programmer would like to see (closures, types, compu- tational data structures, and some high-level control constructs), it is sufficiently rich and flexible to use it for the description of document *objects*, and to script them as well. Chris Rowley commented the line about the "non-ultimate" PDF: > have committed myself to writing up something on this subject. I would appreciate enormously if I could read something on that. ==== Then, there was a second flow of thoughts. I felt disturbed by Timothy Murphy: > Because pdftex answered an urgent and common need. > Omega may be nice, but it is not necessary. I am sorry, but always when I see somebody who rejects or postpones the necessity of multi-linguistic evolution of the document processing, and moreover when the name of the author is typically Anglo-Saxon, I become sad, and if it repeats itself, I suggest that perhaps the Author should talk a little bit more with people bearing some more exotic names... Timothy Murphy has another thought which deserves a reaction: > May I suggest that there is a lot to be said for Java, > or a Java-like approach, > in which NewTeX extends OldTeX > (as in "class NewTeX extends OldTeX") -- > in other words NewTeX is built on top of OldTeX, > rather than being an entirely new structure, > and defaults to OldTeX except where new methods > are explicitly provided. This is an interesting point of view: an incremental evolution of a *language*. We have seen that already, in such a way Pascal transmuted into Object-Pascal or Delphi. But is TeX just a language? At which level? Its inherent semantics based on the macro-expansion might not be the ultimate solution. Already Lout (and Curl) introduce the formatting "tags" and control structures rather as procedures than as macros. I might be wrong, but the "NewTeX" build upon the old one is a typical example of an evolutionary process which *must* die one day, and give way - through important mutations perhaps - to new concepts, as based on TeX as the mammals are attached to reptiles if you see what I mean. Hans Hages seems to be more positive here, recalling that NTS team chose Java. But I am not sure whether this "functionality isolation" means necessarily that the semantics of the old venarable stuff is kept intact. I think I agree entirely with the observation of Piet van Oostrum. New functionalities need *different* primitives, and most probably different "virtual machine". Java or not Java is another story. \expandafter, or \futurelet (which I have never really understod...) do not depend on the choice of the *implementation* language... If somebody could give some references to NTS<->Java, I would truly appreciate. Best regards, and sorry for taking your time. Jerzy Karczmarczuk Caen, France. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 05:57:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA16634 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:57:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA17612 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:11:20 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA17609 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:11:15 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA27344; hop 0; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:03:01 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:11:02 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.1 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.1 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.19691.425000.708893@SRAHTZ> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:54:19 +0000 (0) To: davidc@nag.co.uk Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, pdftex@tug.org, kehr@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs In-Reply-To: <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> References: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle writes: > > But, as the actual .ind file is generated by an > external program, this program must be extended in order to generate > > no you can use makeindex' |command feature to place the link command > around each link. > the problem for hyperref is when the document or other macro package uses | already. i dont have a good answer to this. sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 05:57:53 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA16662 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 05:57:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA17644 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:17:10 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA17641 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:17:05 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id MAA19068; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:15:13 GMT Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:15:13 GMT Message-Id: <199811231215.MAA19068@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk CC: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, pdftex@tug.org, kehr@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de In-reply-to: <13913.19691.425000.708893@SRAHTZ> (message from Sebastian Rahtz on Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:54:19 +0000 (0)) Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs References: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> <13913.19691.425000.708893@SRAHTZ> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > the problem for hyperref is when the document or other macro package > uses | already. i dont have a good answer to this. well on a case by case basis you can just catch the use of the package's |foo and make it instead insert |hyperfoo where \hyperfoo is suitably defined. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 06:03:57 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA16808 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA17547 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:03:31 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA17541 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:03:29 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.76]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2B76; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:03:25 +0100 Message-ID: <36594F4F.C4714668@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:04:31 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Timothy Murphy , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <13910.52390.802130.180862@fell.open.ac.uk> <36591F3A.B425DDD0@wxs.nl> <13913.16286.921659.61963@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > Being one of these despised modern-style progammers, I was not > thinking so much of run/complie efficiency but of people efficiency in > making it much quicker to write correct, maintainbale code. Well, context at least enables users to conveniently define their own styles. But, all interfacing in tex slows down processing! (Speed is an issue ghere, some thousands of pages documents take hours to run.) > > Let me summarize some observations I made the last > > few days. I spend some time on making context etex aware as well as sort > > of 'precompiling' tex source code. > > > > - both optimizations currently can speed up context > > processing by 5% (adding up to 10) > > Wow! For context, 10% is, in absolute real secs, a lot a > lot:-)...enough for an extra dose of caffiene? Yes, even more interesting, it's a first step towards real precompilation, or better, high level style coding. If you had a bit more control over latex code development outside The Team, part of it could apply to latex too I guess. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure that given some time, I can precompile the source to run over 10% faster and the fmt file being a similar percentage (or more) smaller. > > - most of the optimization is due to \protected (which I > > guess in context is used for a different purpose than > > latex will use it) > > Fascinating: tell me more. Well, > > - about 500 hash entries can be saved due to \protect, > > some more at runtime > > Only 500?:-) Well, context core interface is 17.5K, largely due to inheritance (the framed core object takes 50 and is inherited many times). An additional interface (en,de,nl) takes about 700 extra hasg entries. The saving of 500 is due a bit more efficient font definition. to The main saving probably is in all those disappearing \ea\ifx\csname.. things. (pretty much in a large run with thousands of local/global cross references). > > - in tricky runs with many colors witches per page, etex > > native multiple mark support outperforms the tex based > > one pretty well, on my test document it brings down run > > time 40% (200% on critical pages). > > We need to compare that with proper text-colour support ... some time. (Well, switching to local color support shows no further gain in speed). I did a lot of speed tests. Sometimes an optimization results 1 second out of 10 in 250.000 iterations, while in real life only a few 100 take place. No real gain there. > But that is very useful information since multiple-marks have many > other uses. Indeed: color, grid snapping, running headers/footers, some interactive things, etc > > - expressions are in many cases slower, and too limited > > (like in the order of multiplication) > > Mmm, slower! Tell Peter! Yes, the restrictions should be removed: > they were essential in the calc package but should not be needed in etex. Really, why not adapt the calc package. (Don't even know that one). > > - \ifcsname can not automatically replace \ea\ifx\csname..., > > especially when \csname... interferes > > Again, please explain in more detail, to me and Peter at least. Ah, but you're supposed to be the wizzard. I already mailed this to Phil. I hope you get the point: = 1: \ifcsname somethingundefined\endcsname returns false = 2: \csname somethingundefined\endcsname becomes \relax = 3: \ifcsname somethingundefined\endcsname now returns true = = I wonder why, given that (2) is natural to original TeX, (3) returns = true. I think that when a \cs is \relax, (3) should also return false. = = One can argue that when set to \relax on purpose, the \cs *is* defined, = but I more like to argue from the point of the macro package writer. = (Yes, I remember your talk of eurotex arnhem.) He wants a substitute = for: = = \expandafter\ifx\csname somethingundefined\endcsname\relax = = and, because the \relax is a side effect of \csname...\endcsname, he = knows that and will use it probably only when 'resetting' the \cs. = = The mere fact that \ifcsname is quite different, will complicate = adapting existing macro packages to etex. It blows for instance the = context font mechanism, and I slowly start fearing that there are not = that many existing situations where I can use \ifcsname (while it looks = so promissing). = = I know it is sort of off topic, if only because it's there now, but = maybe it makes sense to have an \ifxcsname...\endcsname that simply = replaces \expandafter\ifx\csname...\endcsname\relax without the side = effect of creating a hash entry. (I cannot imagine a macro writer = depending on the test to actually define (\relax) the \cs.) > > - right-left typesetting can interfere rather funny with color > > mechanisms based on marks and specials, a work around is possible. > > That is, maybe, because it is not a true RL typesetting system but, > rather an RL-within-LR system. Or maybe this also needs true text-colour. There is also the issue of automatically removes spaces and multiple paragraph typesetting. Fun playing with but fuzzy. Maybe dominique (your uktug foreign typesetting wizzard) should do that playing. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 08:23:19 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28498 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:23:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11447 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:36:16 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11444 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:36:14 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.99]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5C59; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:35:28 +0100 Message-ID: <36557F3D.4DC5494@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:39:57 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fabrice POPINEAU Subject: Re: pdfetex beta tester? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <36551DAB.E4C5C922@wxs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Fabrice POPINEAU wrote: > > If I'm right, that's one of the reasons java was chosen for nts. From > > talking with Karl S (who's doing the conversion) I understood that he > > tries to isolate functionality. > > > > Frankly speaking ... I don't know who has choosen Java for this > project, but many other languages might have been better suited to do > that. What scares me about Java is : > - speed and cross platform compatibility > - will Sun let Java specs in the public domain ? > > The future of Java is not clear for many people. I was sort of promissing when it started, but (having just read another of those ms/sun/hp battle stories) I start wondering myself if it makes sense to learn my self java. Just curious: what languages do you mean? SmallTalk? Oberon? Lisp? Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 20 08:43:18 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28968 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:43:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11661 for pdftex-list; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:57:00 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11657 for ; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:56:58 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.99]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA700B; Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:56:49 +0100 Message-ID: <3655843E.402BFE74@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 16:01:18 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Bouche Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs References: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche wrote: > What are the best solutions here? Someone talked sometimes ago of a (Depending on your needs, some more in needed, but I fear that the context solutions don't apply to latex. I also use another index processor.) > patched makeindex. Maybe, xindy makes it possible by a simple style This was discusses at EuroTeX98 with the xindy team. They promissed to come up with some extensions dealign with this, i.e. attributes. I think you'd best wait till that support is availble. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 06:24:43 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17176 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:24:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA17546 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:03:31 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA17539 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:03:28 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.76]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3C29; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:03:22 +0100 Message-ID: <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:48:31 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Christian Kumpf , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > Certainly anything we release whilst otex is still of necessity in use > will support both, and probably there will be an otex version > available for a long time after that. I wonder how the commercial tex's will respond. Any info on that? Will YandYtex be etex compatible, and vtex, and oztex, and textures? > of stuff that people really want in a latex that needs etex (and/or I remember some latex folks telling me how stubborn peopel are in not switching from 9 to e. -) > How much of context did you change? Because I have (not yet complete, but I'm converging) isolated system/core functionality in modules, I only have to adapt some low level macros. The protection (needed for testing key/values) for instance is pretty wel isolated, so I only have to adapt a few system macros. The same with marks and fonts. Most modules (that is, the ones that I isolated and documented) are pretty isolated and can be replaced by better ones, e.g. when real new tex functionality comes around, like real multi columns) (I just wrote a perl script that will make the belly of context english instead of dutch, that is: currently much low level stuff is dutch, but should be english. Of course context will remain multi interfaced. We're talking only of low level things, hidden from users.) > Which bits of etex did you use (or which not, if that is shorter)? \protected, \ifcsname, \ifdefined, \detokenize I did some experiments with other ones, left right stuff, pseudo files, etc. Expressions are sort of fuzzy, try \dimenexpr .123*\dimen0\relax Concerning pdftex, I have an (for the moment local) supp-pdf extension that outputs metapost code in 2 digit rounding, which only makes sense (in terms of speed) in etex. But, I keep om testing. (Much of the etex functionality can be faked in tex, sometimes even faster, but often at the cost of some more tokens). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 06:41:21 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17544 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:41:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA17824 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:36:21 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA17821 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:36:19 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA28522; hop 0; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:28:04 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:36:02 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.1 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.1 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.21432.639000.613687@SRAHTZ> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:23:20 +0000 (0) To: davidc@nag.co.uk Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, pdftex@tug.org, kehr@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de Subject: Re: hyperref & index' backrefs In-Reply-To: <199811231215.MAA19068@nag.co.uk> References: <199811201253.NAA05844@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199811201412.OAA21244@nag.co.uk> <13913.19691.425000.708893@SRAHTZ> <199811231215.MAA19068@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle writes: > > > the problem for hyperref is when the document or other macro package > > uses | already. i dont have a good answer to this. > > well on a case by case basis you can just catch the use of the package's > |foo and make it instead insert |hyperfoo where \hyperfoo is suitably > defined. > oh, sure. but people are more than capable of making changes _in the document_, god help them. and obviously if you can contribute the fixes to make doc.sty work....? sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 06:41:24 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17548 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:41:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA18026 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:56:47 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA18022 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:56:45 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA29463; hop 0; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:48:30 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:56:26 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.1 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.1 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:53:39 +0000 (0) To: pragma@wxs.nl Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros In-Reply-To: <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen writes: > > (Much of the etex functionality can be faked in tex, sometimes even > faster, but often at the cost of some more tokens). > > If you can change "much" to "nearly all", and someone writes a TeX package to mimic the e-TeX extensions, the rest of us who don't care about speed and size can go back to sleep :-} how many people on this list, given a month off work, and the choice of getting to grips with _either_ e-TeX, _or_ Omega, would choose the former? which do you think would produce more beautiful pages? Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 08:04:14 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19292 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:04:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18856 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:24:34 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18853 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:24:33 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.33]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA114; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:23:51 +0100 Message-ID: <36596557.7A0D0B94@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:38:31 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Rahtz CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi Sebastian, Ah, back again! > > (Much of the etex functionality can be faked in tex, sometimes even > > faster, but often at the cost of some more tokens). > > > > > If you can change "much" to "nearly all", and someone writes a TeX > package to mimic the e-TeX extensions, the rest of us who don't care > about speed and size can go back to sleep :-} Hm. But I sometimes need some sleep too. -) > how many people on this list, given a month off work, and the choice > of getting to grips with _either_ e-TeX, _or_ Omega, would choose the > former? which do you think would produce more beautiful pages? If you could give me that month ... I already fear that my life is to short to exploit everything new coming. Conerning omega, do *you* have the documentation? If even you cannot find it, we're lost anyway. I fear that we have to wait for etex 3 (or 4) before real typo stuff turns up. Apart from a few typo extensions, like the last line fit, most of the new etex functionality concerns macro cosmetics and getting additional info in the process (it would be different if there was \unmark \lastmark etc.) (I have to admit: after switching to etex marks, the grid snapper did not work, simply because I used a feature of the tex multiple marker. It does work again, but I still have to clean up some mess.) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 08:08:13 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19427 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:08:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18852 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:24:30 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18849 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:24:28 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.33]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3A5F; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:24:24 +0100 Message-ID: <36596952.FD33AAF3@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:55:30 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jerzy Karczmarczuk CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> <19981119180620.B4426@maths.tcd.ie> <365953A4.B0EA61E4@info.unicaen.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: > This will be a long posting, I am sorry. It is good that > *this* list touches some fundamental questions, not only > pure technicities. Yes, interesting, if only I had more time ... > resources, the TeX interpreter itself does it better. I mentioned > SGML rather than HTML because there is nothing ultimate in the > last one either, the language evolves, XML is there, and the meta- > layer of SGML in a sense presents a similar philosophy as the > basic layer of TeX: plenty of "meta"-structures. In TeX: > macro-generating macros, dynamical names for the control > structures (\csname), plug-in protocol for lots of routines > (e.g. \output) etc. The main problem is 'where to stop expansion', 'at what level'. We're talking about real structure, not the HTML-4 framed and positional and whatever hardcoded typo based output. > Hans Hagen stated in response to my posting that TeX is a > typographic language, and not so much a descriptive one. > Just a back-end. > I think I would disagree. TeX is a *universal* language, and > although its synta/sema structure is different from what > I as a programmer would like to see (closures, types, compu- > tational data structures, and some high-level control constructs), > it is sufficiently rich and flexible to use it for the > description of document *objects*, and to script them as well. Sorry for the confusion. I *do* structure documents in tex, so it's not the descriptive language I was talking about. The main point is that as soon as TeX the programs starts acting on that coded document, it also starts expanding and interpreting and acting. Of course, one can turn everything typographic, par/page building off, but If I only need translation from something structured into something else structured, I would prefer perl or whatever over tex. > This is an interesting point of view: an incremental evolution > of a *language*. We have seen that already, in such a way > Pascal transmuted into Object-Pascal or Delphi. But is TeX > just a language? At which level? Good point. I still don't know. It's a sort of unique breed I guess. > Hans Hages seems to be more positive here, recalling that NTS > team chose Java. But I am not sure whether this "functionality I really would have liked oberon to be the choice -). > isolation" means necessarily that the semantics of the old > venarable stuff is kept intact. I think I agree entirely with > the observation of Piet van Oostrum. New functionalities need > *different* primitives, and most probably different "virtual > machine". Java or not Java is another story. \expandafter, > or \futurelet (which I have never really understod...) do not > depend on the choice of the *implementation* language... Well, \expandafter is not that bad once understood, and without, tex would not be tex. I must admit that working on sgml support in context, until now has learned me that some new low level things would be welcome (taco is working on that) and in general, the most interesting thing is that while removing much of the catcode and related problems, it introduced the concept of variables and partial expansions, which, lucky me, to some extend is already present in the package I use. > Best regards, and sorry for taking your time. No problem, Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 08:37:52 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20144 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:37:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA19245 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:58:32 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19242 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:58:30 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA04742; hop 0; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:50:17 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:57:38 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.1 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.1 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.29876.461000.266333@SRAHTZ> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:44:04 +0000 (0) To: pragma@wxs.nl Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros In-Reply-To: <36596557.7A0D0B94@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> <36596557.7A0D0B94@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen writes: > Hi Sebastian, > > Ah, back again! > with apologies to those on this list whose mail remains unanswered (hyperref questions) > Conerning omega, do *you* have the documentation? If even you cannot > find it, we're lost anyway. well, there is *some* documentation. not up to Chris' standards, but enough to let you write an OTP or two. i sat in a hotel room in India last January and wrote a trivial OTP from scratch, working from examples and the existing documentation. so if I can do it, anyone can > I fear that we have to wait for etex 3 (or 4) before real typo > stuff assuming current speed of e-TeX, i shall be retired by then. > turns up. Apart from a few typo extensions, like the last line fit, most > of the new etex functionality concerns macro cosmetics and getting > additional info in the process (it would be different if there was > \unmark \lastmark etc.) well, quite. i appreciate that all this is jollly useful and interesting to the TeX macro programmer, but to real human beings??? as people like you, Hans, demonstrate, the lack is not TeX macro tools, but people clever and motivated enough to drive TeX. Context demonstrates that TeX can do things we thought were almost impossible; I do not believe that had you started with e-TeX, you would have developed the package more quickly. do you think you would? Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 08:38:22 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20151 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:38:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA19268 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:59:49 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19265 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:59:47 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA04861; hop 0; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:51:34 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:59:09 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.1 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.1 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.30613.641000.472892@SRAHTZ> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:56:21 +0000 (0) To: karczma@info.unicaen.fr Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? In-Reply-To: <365953A4.B0EA61E4@info.unicaen.fr> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> <19981119180620.B4426@maths.tcd.ie> <365953A4.B0EA61E4@info.unicaen.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jerzy Karczmarczuk writes: > I really didn't want to be technical. But there is already at > least one commercial venture who sells the TeX executable which > generates HTML directly. I think that such initiatives as in addition, TeX4ht works through the dvi file, providing equivalent power. Omega can now also write SGML directly. Both Omega and TeX4ht can demonstrably perform LaTeX to XML conversion. > Well, CURL is based on an eclectic language based on enriched > Scheme. It includes a Tcl/Tk-like toolbox for the interactive and so we see why it has not conquered the world :-} as an aside, I just spent 6 days at XML 98 and associated events. its strange to move from that frenetic discussion of XML, CSS, XSL and the DOM back to calmer waters of TeX. I do urge people to read up on XSL, even in its current primitive state; it looks much more like the future than LaTeX.... [1] Sebastian [1] no, i did not say *TeX* (and hence pdfTeX) have no future.... From mjd@ams.org Mon Nov 23 08:50:04 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA20432 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:50:03 -0700 (MST) Resent-From: mjd@ams.org Received: from math.ams.org [130.44.210.14] by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0zhyBo-0002ld-00; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:46:16 +0000 Received: from sun06.ams.org by math.ams.org via smtpd (for rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) with SMTP; 23 Nov 1998 15:46:09 UT Received: from sun06.ams.org by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) id <0F2V00201T4V9O@sun06.ams.org> for math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:46:07 -0500 (EST) Resent-date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:46:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:46:07 -0500 From: Michael John Downes Subject: bold roman/italic Sender: mjd@ams.org To: math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Lines: 15 Resent-Message-Id: Even if the use in mathematical typography of bold roman to contrast with medium italic was based on practical reasons such as non-availability of bold italic, the extra distinctiveness seems fortunate, especially when sub- and subsubscript uses are taken into account. Bringhurst writes ("The Elements of Typographic Style", 1992): The normal function of boldface type is, after all, to contrast with the roman text. If the bold is used in small amounts, and bold and roman are not too intimately combined, a difference in structure as well as weight may be an asset. Clearly substituting italic and bold italic for roman and bold roman in the above passage describes the math situation. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 09:09:37 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20906 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:09:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19554 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:21:52 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19551 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:21:49 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29608 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:21:41 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id QAA25675; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:25:26 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:25:26 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199811231525.QAA25675@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros In-Reply-To: <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Concernant « Re: pdfetex and macros », Sebastian Rahtz écrit : « » Hans Hagen writes: » > » > (Much of the etex functionality can be faked in tex, sometimes even » > faster, but often at the cost of some more tokens). » > » > » If you can change "much" to "nearly all", and someone writes a TeX » package to mimic the e-TeX extensions, the rest of us who don't care » about speed and size can go back to sleep :-} i'd see that reversed: if you can emulate etex, why not switch at once (using pdfetex, e.g.) and rely on an emulation module for ol'TeXers? **** Hans Hagen writes: = 1: \ifcsname somethingundefined\endcsname returns false = 2: \csname somethingundefined\endcsname becomes \relax = 3: \ifcsname somethingundefined\endcsname now returns true As etex is something, weird, couldn't it simply have some internal representation of CSs that remember if the value of \relax comes from 2 or by an explicit \def ? Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/pdfTeX From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 09:30:18 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21451 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:30:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19991 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:54:16 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA19988 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:54:13 -0500 Received: from remote142-143.home.uni-freiburg.de (Kabuffi) [132.230.142.143] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0zhyJB-0006Q3-00; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:53:49 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981123163342.00797980@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:33:42 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: pdftex 0.12r cannot find texmf.cnf Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, With pdfTeX (Web2c 7.2) 3.14159-0.12r, Win32 kpathsea version 3.2 the format file cannot be found, because it does not find the texmf.cnf file. Paths: d:\bin\win32\*.exe d:\share\texmf\... Environment: TEXMF=d:/share/texmf Only, if I also set the TEXMFCNF variable, the texmf.cnf file can be found. Previous versions (0.12h) and tex.exe do not need the setting of TEXMFCNF. Yours sincerely Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 09:34:09 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21513 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:34:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19986 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:54:05 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA19983 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:54:02 -0500 Received: from remote142-143.home.uni-freiburg.de (Kabuffi) [132.230.142.143] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0zhyJB-0006Q3-01; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:53:49 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981123163825.007a3b60@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:38:25 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: pdftex 0.12r: end of file Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, if a editor finishes a file with CTRL-Z, the file can be processed by TeX, if the file ends with a blank line. pdfTeX (Web2c 7.2) 3.14159-0.12r, Win32, however complains: ! Text line contains an invalid character. l.2 ^^Z With TeX or a previous version of pdfTeX (0.12h, 0.12o) I can end a file with "0x0D 0x0A 0x1A". Now I have to use \endinput or have to comment out the end of file character. Yours sincerely Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 09:39:12 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21673 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:39:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19999 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:54:32 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA19992 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:54:18 -0500 Received: from remote142-143.home.uni-freiburg.de (Kabuffi) [132.230.142.143] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0zhyJC-0006Q3-00; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:53:50 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981123165502.007a7bf0@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:55:02 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: Open parentheses in bookmarks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, if I use a single '(' or ')' in bookmarks or pdfinfo entries, then pdftex writes it verbatim to the pdf file. Then the pdf file contains wrong strings: "(()" or "())", because the single '(' or ')' have to be escaped: "(\()" or "(\))". Example for use: half-open intervals [0,1), (0,1] I think, it is a task for pdftex.exe to write correct strings to the pdf output file and can easily made by converting all '(' and ')' in the escaped ones or by only escaping the unmachted ones. With macros this is much more difficult and/or susceptible to faults. Yours sincerely Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 09:43:07 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21762 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:43:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20316 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:11:10 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20307 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:11:04 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id QAA08300; hop 0; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:02:51 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:10:46 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.34477.976115.590958@srahtz> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:00:45 +0000 (GMT) To: taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? In-Reply-To: <13908.2814.250000.975134@PC709> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <13908.2814.250000.975134@PC709> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater writes: > This is an interesting point, but how do you envisage this? What kind > of TeX back-end SGML would prove useful and why? High-level SGML > cannot be handled by the executable. backed with an XSL style sheet it can..... > JK> 2. The integration of graphics into TeX progresses constantly, > JK> and somebody might wish to fusion it with MetaPost (or some > JK> other graphic language, perhaps 3D). > > There are already plans in that direction. I see a New Church arising in the East... > JK> ultimate in omegaTeX. What is the relation between pdfTeX > JK> and Unicode? > > Nil. hmm. its not clear that Omega and pdfTeX could not merge relatively easily. > JK> (It might sound silly, but the idea of generating PostScript > JK> *directly* perhaps is not as silly as that.) > > I completely agree on this. > why would anyone want to generate PS directly these days? i regard PDF as "next generation PS", and we have pdfTeX. do you really want PSTeX *now*? sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 09:53:00 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21981 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:52:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20310 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:11:06 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20306 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:11:04 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id QAA08297; hop 0; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:02:50 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:10:43 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.34273.972158.685872@srahtz> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:57:21 +0000 (GMT) To: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? In-Reply-To: <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley writes: > last night) is that if the TeX community put as much effort into > providing efficient ways to produce high-quality output _from_ XML+XSL > as it is currently putting into converting LaTeX into such descriptive > formats, then there would be a lot more support everywhere for > developing TeX to meet new requirements. Surely my experiences with JadeTeX (using TeX as the backend formatter for DSSSL, which is essentially the same as XSL formatting objects) demonstrate that TeX is far too heavyweight, and *considerably* too messy at a system level (think of installing font metrics, for starters), to be a real contender. If you have to write a formatter for XSL formatting objects, is it really wise to simply try and strip down TeX, or is it better to start afresh and write a tool for the job? learning from TeX, granted. > something better (with another name). And one must also give very > honourable mention to TeX-XeT and ML-TeX (maybe those logos are not > quite right?). surely a moral here. those two added real functionality to TeX, but were not ultimately successful in being used mainstream (outside pockets of France and Israel). so what chance eTeX? > > the idea of generating PostScript *directly* > > But Lout is definitely a "must investigate" for anyone thinking seriously > about the future of automated document processing. > more so than the commercial systems[1] automatedly generating tens of thousands of pages around the world every day? Lets face it, Lout was/is an academic exercise which has never been proven in a production environment. unlike TeX, to its credit. Sebastian [1] like the offerings of Adobe, Penta, 3B2, Miles, XyVision, Arbortext, Interleaf etc. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 09:59:57 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22264 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:59:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20180 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:03:58 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20177 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:03:56 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.8]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6F25; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:03:51 +0100 Message-ID: <3659882F.247132B1@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:07:11 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jerzy Karczmarczuk CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> <19981119180620.B4426@maths.tcd.ie> <365953A4.B0EA61E4@info.unicaen.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: > > This will be a long posting, I am sorry. It is good that > *this* list touches some fundamental questions, not only > pure technicities. Just to raise a fundamental question: paper and things written down are sort of future save. I got the feeling that some day soon something universal must evolve from the current electronic all-kind-of-funny but-still-kind-of-silly storage and distribution of information mess. I think the real solution is not yet there (or gets spoiled before matured by all those big companies). In this respect, pdf is not much better than other formats. An example: pdf used to be readable. More and more pdf gets optimized, scrambled, compressed etc. One look at the file is no longer enough to get an impression of the content. What we need? Probably something risc, not cisc. Reduction to the simplest form, but powerfull and readable low level things. PDF becomes too complicated (and illogical too) to serve that purpose. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 10:07:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22615 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:07:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20421 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:16:33 -0500 Received: from itcnt04.itc.nl (itcnt04.itc.nl [192.87.16.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20418 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:16:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199811231616.LAA20418@tug.org> Received: from itc.nl (pha104.itc.nl [172.16.5.11]) by itcnt04.itc.nl with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2232.9) id XAK1MWLB; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:19:35 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:20:05 +0100 (MET) From: Ben Gorte Reply-To: gorte@itc.nl Subject: Re: pdf picture To: pdftex@tug.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/mixed; BOUNDARY="279710469-269167349-911838011=:16043" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk --279710469-269167349-911838011=:16043 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII I am still try to include .pdf pictures with pdflatex, using \pdfimage, as in: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{pslatex} \begin{document} Hello there \pdfimage picture.pdf \end{document} Although picture.pdf is still alright when I look at it separately in ghostview or acroread, it looks corrupted in the final pdf-file of my document. In the meantime, Pavel Janik wrote: > Please send this picture in pdftex mailing list - someone will look at it. I will attach it, and I hope someone will look at it... Ben --279710469-269167349-911838011=:16043 Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-Description: picture.pdf JVBERi0xLjIKJcfsj6IKNCAwIG9iago8PC9MZW5ndGggNSAwIFIvRmlsdGVy IC9GbGF0ZURlY29kZT4+CnN0cmVhbQp4nDPQM1QwAEEonZzLVQiEhoYmlnoW JmAhQ2MDSz0zCwVdIwMFXUOwEv0gMwWXfK5AIAQAl+QMomVuZHN0cmVhbQpl bmRvYmoKNSAwIG9iago1NgplbmRvYmoKMyAwIG9iago8PAovVHlwZSAvUGFn ZQovTWVkaWFCb3ggWzAgMCAxMTIgMTI5XQovUGFyZW50IDIgMCBSCi9SZXNv dXJjZXMgPDwgL1Byb2NTZXQgWy9QREYgL0ltYWdlQl0KL1hPYmplY3Q8PC9S Ngo2IDAgUj4+Cj4+Ci9Db250ZW50cyA0IDAgUgo+PgplbmRvYmoKMiAwIG9i ago8PCAvVHlwZSAvUGFnZXMgL0tpZHMgWwozIDAgUgpdIC9Db3VudCAxCj4+ CmVuZG9iagoxIDAgb2JqCjw8IC9UeXBlIC9DYXRhbG9nIC9QYWdlcyAyIDAg Ugo+PgplbmRvYmoKOCAwIG9iago8PCAvQ3JlYXRpb25EYXRlIChEOjE5OTgx MTIwMTQwNDE0KQovUHJvZHVjZXIgKEFsYWRkaW4gR2hvc3RzY3JpcHQgNS41 MCkKPj4KZW5kb2JqCjYgMCBvYmoKPDwgL1R5cGUgL1hPYmplY3QgL05hbWUg L1I2IC9TdWJ0eXBlIC9JbWFnZSAvTGVuZ3RoIDcgMCBSCi9Db2xvclNwYWNl IC9EZXZpY2VHcmF5L1dpZHRoIDExNS9IZWlnaHQgMTMxL0JpdHNQZXJDb21w b25lbnQgOC9GaWx0ZXIvRmxhdGVEZWNvZGUvRGVjb2RlUGFybXM8PC9QcmVk aWN0b3IgMTUvQ29sdW1ucyAxMTU+Pgo+PgpzdHJlYW0KeJzt2mm2myAUAOBk P+7Odbig7sP9pC9V5M4DgzmvJ/5pXxQ+LyAi8Hw9bj+eKXMlf29zzfWxUbGV jZka+DbXtBowNQ24g00jxFbUMUNiFjXNqJh0DTPB5VDdXKMxjmu346vRM4c/ H77pkB2eappkJ6iYFtkvSqYhjgAlc31oHcEgkZtqlMNEZmpRDhQlUzqGksSc XJGSeQ+JzFHjnZzJ288EEprT2ys3byOZiUp3DllNIcxJ5GWeJAxzFklNcEwj i8n72XkkMPExkfygeSuJTFCj8817w5TNueRp3vecFHN00a5OJtWssQbI5fhn Fyx8SHldZrTRLsJvuwIq2QmmTiKvxrjs3mcczvLHDLZaCOIyjXyrwkyL6RWt EmJQxLlyUyL7YqT5hkxA7ktLkDjngDkiSJQ1My2SiK2zOazdUlMn02LJ3TMr +RY7KhNkf5padWISe96cFcgJP4h2nIhEQdrk9i/lvoA7Be3FNBvJDaQEicoQ mpVtP7nBtKhGyjuOxgnMJrKklwItqG7qzUef8hTumEcaNXGYAdIIVDcxKRSR KT7kQI+UtO9j9cFIryYt80isxWk1IAnkqyx64dJxn2T6YYoLO2rhumakAclr SVkzFaayfFXNetOiibsRMczoJFLN48rhardSoMD0wxTFgabUHXiDU9GE6EYu f9B3A1XVITh/WM6USTPzCddqoiRSC4qZR+GWtHwOY7PMzJQON88kOZMWbewL 7jRL2mKSUZJhir2WZyJDMNFwRjDJ7YXN83Y3cV7TMtmVIXMp6opNlJVp1ooJ krAJnePbtOnPUnDzXbI/t1q+HQTUM4/Lc3HWl4+41oEDVUznAG/DUp3gW5Cb sUCDJgtTWUcab8LXurJetvUWLi9azazon1HmTj9a9TXXzkBhmCy5us7bFagx 0SKYYwI1w5T2CpxqR6B2mMb+hPZAHdLahwEDzaCIlBJa+03aShcVjxSmupdn bUV90tk/lEcDpLc3K4niblohvT1ouYZE5uq1y929dgk0SHrmsq8INVS6IKFf 6e1jXPbY7bMlEKNI/P2ay/GhZOXH11zMSojsS5WWcUq+4jmnrcX2wiqqcS/9 ZkINPMWJvc0RNtRZ5fZT2260S06aqpt5wTaYWG4YFDabHcfX/Jpf82v+QvNZ //uiPzzoOZ7mFpOdnm4KJ2eb0rnJpnhqhKn/isjrBm8z4aUzTfnK/8/8RNmi NvS6fptrfuJZmdcnWOasvs80J/XxjsnUv2AtHo8KZW5kc3RyZWFtCmVuZG9i ago3IDAgb2JqCjk0MgplbmRvYmoKeHJlZgowIDkKMDAwMDAwMDAwMCA2NTUz NSBmIAowMDAwMDAwMzY4IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMDAzMDkgMDAwMDAgbiAK MDAwMDAwMDE1OSAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAwMDE1IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAw MDAxNDEgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwMDUwOCAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAxNjY3 IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMDA0MTcgMDAwMDAgbiAKdHJhaWxlcgo8PCAvU2l6 ZSA5IC9Sb290IDEgMCBSIC9JbmZvIDggMCBSCj4+CnN0YXJ0eHJlZgoxNjg2 CiUlRU9GCg== --279710469-269167349-911838011=:16043-- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 10:13:48 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22933 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:13:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA20782 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:35:01 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA20779 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:34:59 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id QAA09491; hop 0; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:26:45 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:34:34 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.35559.874792.128572@srahtz> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:18:47 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? In-Reply-To: <199811231555.KAA20020@tug.org> References: <199811231555.KAA20020@tug.org> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Denis Roegel writes > > Omega can now also write SGML directly. > > Really ? yes. as of a test release last week :-} i guess that anyone who wants to follow this up should talk to John Plaice directly, in case he wants to restrict access at present. sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 10:35:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA23574 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:35:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21068 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:48:20 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21064 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:48:19 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.2]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA46DE; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:48:07 +0100 Message-ID: <36598DFE.FC60902C@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:31:58 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Rahtz CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> <36596557.7A0D0B94@wxs.nl> <13913.29876.461000.266333@SRAHTZ> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > turns up. Apart from a few typo extensions, like the last line fit, most > > of the new etex functionality concerns macro cosmetics and getting > > additional info in the process (it would be different if there was > > \unmark \lastmark etc.) > > well, quite. i appreciate that all this is jollly useful and > interesting to the TeX macro programmer, but to real human beings??? Not entirely true. One can dismantle boxes, but those whatsits can stand in the way. This is why so many nice things are not possible. > as people like you, Hans, demonstrate, the lack is not TeX macro tools, > but people clever and motivated enough to drive TeX. Context > demonstrates that TeX can do things we thought were almost impossible; > I do not believe that had you started with e-TeX, you would have > developed the package more quickly. do you think you would? No. To be honnest, I did not find things that could not be done in good old tex, but I'm sure Chris can come up with some. It's the next releases that I'm betting on! (And, I got a strong feeling that tex can do more than we currently do, but history proved me that some things can be a pain in the ... programming. You know the feeling: programming something that you thought would only take a few minutes.) I was present at the last few etex meetings, and the discussions make me very hopeful fr the next releases (I don't thing regular expressions made it into the \def\xx#1#2{} things yet, but one never know what version 10 will bring!). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 10:53:56 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24007 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:52:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21492 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:16:00 -0500 Received: from top.coli.uni-sb.de (IDENT:qMiyA57WNe4zyid19QHoqVf/a5X49jvv@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21489 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:15:57 -0500 Received: from coli.uni-sb.de (crysmann@acc1-230.telip.uni-sb.de [134.96.113.230]) by top.coli.uni-sb.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA18612; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:15:44 +0100 (MET) Received: from [[UNIX: localhost]] ([[UNIX: localhost]]) by coli.uni-sb.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA00636; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:14:19 +0100 From: Berthold Crysmann Reply-To: crysmann@coli.uni-sb.de To: gorte@itc.nl Subject: Re: pdf picture Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:00:40 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 0.7.9] Content-Type: text/plain Cc: pdftex@tug.org References: <199811231616.LAA20418@tug.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <98112318141800.00186@ln> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Ben Gorte wrote: >>I am still try to include .pdf pictures with pdflatex, using \pdfimage, >as in: > >\documentclass{article} >\usepackage{pslatex} >\begin{document} > Hello there > > \pdfimage picture.pdf >\end{document} > >Although picture.pdf is still alright when I look at it separately in >ghostview or acroread, it looks corrupted in the final pdf-file of my >document. > >In the meantime, Pavel Janik wrote: > >> Please send this picture in pdftex mailing list - someone will look at it. > >I will attach it, and I hope someone will look at it... > Don't know what's going wrong here. Seems to be the pdf file itself causiong the trouble. Here's a possible workaround: Load the file with Reader, print it to a file with shrink to fit enabled. Convert it back to pdf using Sebastian's fitpdf. This cures the problem here (gs 5.10). Cheers, Berthold -- Berthold Crysmann Universitaet des Saarlandes, Computerlinguistik Geb. 17.2, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken Tel. +49-681-302-4502 / Fax +49-681-302-4700 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 11:03:15 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24260 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:03:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21634 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:23:39 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21631 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:23:37 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.39]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA622E; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:23:35 +0100 Message-ID: <36599B0A.271034A9@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:27:38 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Bouche CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <13907.59086.949690.466238@metropolis> <3653F8D1.61629DE4@wxs.nl> <13908.10244.916664.965908@fell.open.ac.uk> <36543FA7.B1520EDA@wxs.nl> <13908.17251.497418.710276@fell.open.ac.uk> <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> <199811231525.QAA25675@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche wrote: > Hans Hagen writes: > = 1: \ifcsname somethingundefined\endcsname returns false > = 2: \csname somethingundefined\endcsname becomes \relax > = 3: \ifcsname somethingundefined\endcsname now returns true > > As etex is something, weird, couldn't it simply have some internal > representation of CSs that remember if the value of \relax comes from > 2 or by an explicit \def ? Or maybe simply test for \cs being undefined or \relax. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 11:04:29 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24282 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:03:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21559 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:20:05 -0500 Received: from calvin.info.unicaen.fr (calvin.info.unicaen.fr [193.55.128.51]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA21555 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:20:01 -0500 Received: from info.unicaen.fr (hypatia [193.55.128.16]) by calvin.info.unicaen.fr (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id SAA01613 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:19:52 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3659A739.80B2FCE0@info.unicaen.fr> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:19:37 +0000 From: Jerzy Karczmarczuk Organization: University of Caen, France X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: fr-FR, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Direct PostScript useless? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <13908.2814.250000.975134@PC709> <13913.34477.976115.590958@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz comments the suggestion : * > but the idea of generating PostScript * > *directly* perhaps is not as silly as that.) > why would anyone want to generate PS directly these days? > i regard PDF as "next generation PS", and we have pdfTeX. > do you really want PSTeX *now*? > > sebastian Frankly I do not care too much about direct PS output (although I consider the Lout "academic exercise" to be much more than that...) but -- -- well, try to send a pdf file to a printer, ok?! PDF is not a new PS, and it will not be one, as long as the number of popular rendering machines remains so small (Acrobat and GhostScript). This is one difference. There is another one: I didn't forget yet NeWS, nor Display PostScript. This is a programming language. You might insert *into a document* some plugged-in goodies, such as the repagination, you may dynamically create new fonts, etc. PDF is static, almost dead. Of course, there are hyperlinks and widgets, but they belong to the external interpretation layer, not to the document. You might say that in PS everything is external as well, PS is interpreted, but the conceptual differences between PS and PDF are big. PostScript is extensible. Like TeX!! But passing through DVI kills it. I really need some possibility to *compute* things while typesetting a document, in particular in the domain of graphics. I like thus PS, because we have it. Obviously, it is horrible, and I usually make my drawings in MetaPost rather than with PSTricks, but *somewhere* a full-fledged programming structures must appear - either near the front-end, like in MP, or at the back end (PS). All the best. Jerzy Karczmarczuk Caen, France. PS. According to Sebastian Rahtz, TeX-Xet and something else (multilingual) failed outside "pockets of France and Israel". Hmm. I think I will not attempt to understand this statement too deeply... From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 11:04:54 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24311 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:04:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA21776 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:28:02 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA21770 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:27:52 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 23 Nov 98 17:27:42 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19981123172741.A3167@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:27:41 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> <19981119180620.B4426@maths.tcd.ie> <365953A4.B0EA61E4@info.unicaen.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <365953A4.B0EA61E4@info.unicaen.fr>; from Jerzy Karczmarczuk on Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 12:23:00PM +0000 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 12:23:00PM +0000, Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: > Then, there was a second flow of thoughts. I felt disturbed by > Timothy Murphy: > > > Because pdftex answered an urgent and common need. > > Omega may be nice, but it is not necessary. > > I am sorry, but always when I see somebody who rejects or > postpones the necessity of multi-linguistic evolution of the > document processing, and moreover when the name of the author > is typically Anglo-Saxon, I become sad, and if it repeats > itself, I suggest that perhaps the Author should talk a little > bit more with people bearing some more exotic names... In self-defence, I was simply answering the question someone raised, why pdftex/pdflatex seemed to have caught on while Omega has not. I'm all in favour of multi-lingualism. But the question in this case was not which is better, but which sells more butter. People urgently needed a way to put Maths on the Web, and Thanh supplied that need. It would be nice to put Sanskrit on the Web, but the need is not all-consuming. Incidentally, for the same reason I don't believe eTeX or NTS will succeed in displacing traditional TeX/LaTeX, unless people are tricked into using it by calling it TeX/LaTeX. I don't think "Murphy" is a typical Anglo-Saxon name, is it? -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 11:15:56 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24605 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:15:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA22025 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:39:24 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA22021 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:39:21 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 23 Nov 98 17:39:16 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19981123173915.B3167@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:39:15 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros References: <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ>; from Sebastian Rahtz on Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 12:53:39PM +0000 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 12:53:39PM +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > how many people on this list, given a month off work, and the choice > of getting to grips with _either_ e-TeX, _or_ Omega, would choose the > former? which do you think would produce more beautiful pages? Is Omega not the work of the great (but unspell-able) Yannis? [This is a genuine question.] If in fact we are speaking of the author of ygoth, I don't think the competition would be hard to judge. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 11:30:35 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25010 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:30:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA22187 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:48:44 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA22184 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:48:41 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 23 Nov 98 17:48:39 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19981123174838.C3167@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:48:38 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros References: <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> <199811231525.QAA25675@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <199811231525.QAA25675@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr>; from Thierry Bouche on Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 04:25:26PM +0100 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Nov 23, 1998 at 04:25:26PM +0100, Thierry Bouche wrote: > i'd see that reversed: if you can emulate etex, why not switch at once > (using pdfetex, e.g.) and rely on an emulation module for ol'TeXers? Because the most important thing for most people is that LaTeX files can be processed by LaTeX everywhere; and the simplest way to ensure that is to use LaTeX. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 16:52:03 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03124 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:51:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23425 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:24:57 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23422 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:24:54 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.113]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA49D2; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:24:44 +0100 Message-ID: <3659EBEC.B138C2BB@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:12:44 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timothy Murphy CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdfetex and macros References: <19981119181011.C4426@maths.tcd.ie> <13909.28876.765000.336344@XLOO> <19981120152413.A112@maths.tcd.ie> <3655A528.8A95449D@wxs.nl> <365604A7.97FBC3E3@zgdv.de> <13910.57094.993529.913772@fell.open.ac.uk> <365920AC.BDEEF430@wxs.nl> <13913.14220.631128.16916@fell.open.ac.uk> <36594B8F.6BDD088A@wxs.nl> <13913.23251.424000.640741@SRAHTZ> <19981123173915.B3167@maths.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Timothy Murphy wrote: > Is Omega not the work of the great (but unspell-able) Yannis? It is. As far as I know, long ago the main problem was that you needed pretty much memory, but nowadays this is no longer a problem. I once generated me some formats, but then I started wondering what to do next. Today again I searched the net for info, and failed. I guess lack of documentation is the main problem for omega, I'm convinced the quality is pretty good. (etex offers other extensions than omega, the first one more macro oriented, the latter more typesetting oriented) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 16:54:47 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03165 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:54:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23429 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:25:04 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23426 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:25:02 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.113]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA708A; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:24:50 +0100 Message-ID: <3659ED6A.CBE17844@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:19:06 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jerzy Karczmarczuk CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Direct PostScript useless? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <13908.2814.250000.975134@PC709> <13913.34477.976115.590958@srahtz> <3659A739.80B2FCE0@info.unicaen.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: > ... create new fonts, etc. PDF is static, almost dead. Of course, > there are hyperlinks and widgets, but they belong to the > external interpretation layer, not to the document. You might Isn't it strange that hyperstuff and widgets are part of the 'standard' but are handled by external plugins? I still wonder how exactly a viewer is defined. Is in this respect xpdf a complete viewer? > I really need some possibility to *compute* things while > typesetting a document, in particular in the domain of graphics. Yes, that's why tex and mp should merge. (I currently quite happy mix them in documents). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 23 16:57:15 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03264 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 16:57:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA23433 for pdftex-list; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:25:14 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA23430 for ; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:25:12 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.113]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA49A7; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:23:54 +0100 Message-ID: <3659EA0D.C0AB54D4@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:04:46 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Rahtz CC: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <13913.34273.972158.685872@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Chris Rowley writes: > > last night) is that if the TeX community put as much effort into > > providing efficient ways to produce high-quality output _from_ XML+XSL > > as it is currently putting into converting LaTeX into such descriptive > > formats, then there would be a lot more support everywhere for > > developing TeX to meet new requirements. > > Surely my experiences with JadeTeX (using TeX as the backend > formatter for DSSSL, which is essentially the same as XSL formatting I suppose you forget for the moment the rubishly tex that jade produces -). Indeed, that kind of tex is pretty heavyweight in kbytes, and lowweight in sophistication. I think in many cases tex can do the job jade does, acting directly on xml or an intermediate tex derived from it. You know my opinion on this: the funny mix of manipulation and formatting etc etc. > pockets of France and Israel). so what chance eTeX? I think right-left typesetting must act on whole docs, like in omega. > [1] like the offerings of Adobe, Penta, 3B2, Miles, XyVision, > Arbortext, Interleaf etc. (Some of those use some of tex deep down. If the publishers had spend as much money on tex as on those systems ...) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 00:33:49 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12961 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:33:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA24396 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:58:41 -0500 Received: from calvin.info.unicaen.fr (calvin.info.unicaen.fr [193.55.128.51]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA24393 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:58:38 -0500 Received: from info.unicaen.fr (hypatia [193.55.128.16]) by calvin.info.unicaen.fr (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id HAA05129 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:58:34 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <365A6719.82572E03@info.unicaen.fr> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:58:17 +0000 From: Jerzy Karczmarczuk Organization: University of Caen, France X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: fr-FR, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: XeT tfel-ot-thgiR References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <13913.34273.972158.685872@srahtz> <3659EA0D.C0AB54D4@wxs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen comments Sebastian Rahtz: > > pockets of France and Israel). so what chance eTeX? > > I think right-left typesetting must act on whole docs, like in omega. > > Hans === Don't tell that to the Arabic language teachers, and other people who need *inclusions* of such segaugnal. In fact, Unicode has a special control character which changes the internal positioning order. It must work together with layout commands, but they are also provided. You may switch (in principle). Jerzy Karczmarczuk Caen, France. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 03:19:01 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15854 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 03:19:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA24834 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:07:13 -0500 Received: from aida.inet.cz (root@aida.inet.cz [194.196.192.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA24831 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:07:09 -0500 Received: from SnowWhite.inet.cz (IDENT:pavel@dialup4.inet.cz [194.196.193.4]) by aida.inet.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA12729; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:06:13 +0100 Received: (from pavel@localhost) by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA08271; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:03:33 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org CC: thanh@fi.muni.cz Subject: TIFF inclusion support again X-Operating-System: Linux 2.1.129 on Intel, Linux 2.0.36 on SPARC Organization: INET a.s., Kralovopolska 139, Brno, 60112, Czech Republic X-URL-PGP: http://www.inet.cz/~pjanik X-Phone: +420 5 41321276 ext. 171, +420 5 41321251 ext. 17 X-Spam: No unsolicited e-mail. 500 dollars per message proof-reading for unsolicited e-mail. X-Not-Receiving-Mail-From: mrp.cz, hotmail.com, post.cz, email.cz, usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: 24 Nov 1998 10:03:28 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 24 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I need TIFF inclusion support again so I forward port it to pdftex-0.12r. I hope Han The Thanh will put my patch somewhere around pdftex-beta directory so everyone who need TIFF (as me) can use it. Nevermind that it will never be part of pdfTeX - I need it and it can be useful for you. Today evening I'll also post my Install script which demonstrates the installation of TIFF (and even non TIFF version). I have one additional note for Thanh: In README file you write: 4) Create formats: pdftex -ini -fmt=pdftex plain \\dump pdftex -ini -fmt=pdflatex latex.ltx Please can you add how to create pdfetex format? pdfetex -ini -efmt=pdfetex plain \\dump -- Pavel Janik ml. Pavel.Janik@inet.cz From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 04:10:03 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16692 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:10:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA25025 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:16:09 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25022 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:16:08 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA26376; hop 0; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:07:54 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:15:48 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.60944.443127.336328@srahtz> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:21:52 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: \hypersetup doesn't work In-Reply-To: <1diju86.a4uqz4t9l2zoM@n33-184.berlin.snafu.de> References: <3.0.6.32.19981115164512.0079a100@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> <1diju86.a4uqz4t9l2zoM@n33-184.berlin.snafu.de> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Stefan Haller writes: > > The color part of colorlinks is executed at package loading time, > > the part that disables the border is executed AtBeginDocument: > > \hypersetup{colorlinks=true} produces black links without border. > > Thanks for the explanation, but isn't this a bug then? I mean, as a its a fair point. at first sight, i don't see why I don't use \AtBeginDocument instead of \AtEndPackage. I'll check. > (Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh; I do appreciate all the work that > went into hyperref.) luckily i am a masochist... sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 04:11:19 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16726 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:11:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA25033 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:17:11 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25030 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:17:09 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA26458; hop 0; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:08:56 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:17:01 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13913.62909.473824.106717@srahtz> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 23:54:37 +0000 (GMT) To: pragma@wxs.nl Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? In-Reply-To: <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen writes: > cross-links, different interpretation sof data, etc). In general SGML > processing is not that hard for TeX. The problem lays in doing the nice > things, which has nothing to do with SGML at all. For TeX SGML is just > another input format. Unfortunately TeX is not that much build for > manipulating data, but again, this is not related to SGML. I do hope you constrain yourself to XML, not full SGML. But really, surely its better to tie into the back of ISO standards like DSSSL, or upcoming industry recommendations like XSL, than hack at a raw XML reader? > interesting developments right from the beginning. Somehow pdftex has > escaped from fate, and survives, and in itself it's interesting to think > about why pdftex and not omega etc. why do you think Omega is dead? > > Or, as sebastian would say: that is the big solution, the whole world > > improving the program. I think the big solution is not re-inventing wheels. with all due respect to Hans, writing an XML parser in TeX is like hacking a jet engine out of a lump of stone. IMHO. Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 04:19:37 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16833 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 04:19:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA25215 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:39:11 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25212 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:39:08 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20544; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:39:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06196; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:39:06 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199811241039.LAA06196@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: TIFF inclusion support again In-Reply-To: from "Pavel Janik ml." at "Nov 24, 98 10:03:28 am" To: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:39:05 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi Pavel, > I need TIFF inclusion support again so I forward port it to > pdftex-0.12r. I hope Han The Thanh will put my patch somewhere around > pdftex-beta directory so everyone who need TIFF (as me) can use > it. Nevermind that it will never be part of pdfTeX - I need it and it > can be useful for you. Today evening I'll also post my Install script > which demonstrates the installation of TIFF (and even non TIFF > version). I am willing to add the config stuff for compiling TIFF version to pdftex sources, so one can decide which version to compile by saying ie: make pdftex-with-tiff > I have one additional note for Thanh: > > In README file you write: > > 4) Create formats: > pdftex -ini -fmt=pdftex plain \\dump > pdftex -ini -fmt=pdflatex latex.ltx > > Please can you add how to create pdfetex format? > > pdfetex -ini -efmt=pdfetex plain \\dump I am considering to update the manual, which is too out-of-date already. The question is the README file should contain any such information, or just references to the manual. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 06:58:12 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA19696 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:58:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA25731 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:44:39 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA25727 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:44:13 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:43:40 +0100 Received: from localhost.localdomain (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J4JY5I7KU8003IG7@wkap.nl> for pdftex@tug.org; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:41:37 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:41:39 +0100 (CET) From: root Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? In-reply-to: <13913.62909.473824.106717@srahtz> To: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13914.46995.952777.439261@localhost.localdomain> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <36544342.F3170256@wxs.nl> <13913.62909.473824.106717@srahtz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > > Or, as sebastian would say: that is the big solution, the whole world > > > improving the program. > > I think the big solution is not re-inventing wheels. with all due > respect to Hans, writing an XML parser in TeX is like hacking a jet > engine out of a lump of stone. IMHO. With the same amount of respect to David Megginson and Sebastian himself, IMHO using Jade/DSSSL & TeX to process XML is like using a a jet engine to transport a paperweight. Neither of these is strickly sensible, but both happen to be fairly easy to implement using already existing software. I would be incredibly happy if Jade had a TeX-style (DVI or PDF) backend, but this is quite unlikely to appear in the sort term, I'm afraid. Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 07:22:02 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20155 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA25885 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:30:10 -0500 Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA25882 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:30:09 -0500 Received: from aa056@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33275-856>; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:29:55 -0400 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:29:55 -0400 (AST) From: George White To: Jerzy Karczmarczuk cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Direct PostScript useless? In-Reply-To: <3659A739.80B2FCE0@info.unicaen.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: > Sebastian Rahtz comments the suggestion : > > * > but the idea of generating PostScript > * > *directly* perhaps is not as silly as that.) > > > why would anyone want to generate PS directly these days? > > i regard PDF as "next generation PS", and we have pdfTeX. > > do you really want PSTeX *now*? > > > > sebastian > > Frankly I do not care too much about direct PS output (although > I consider the Lout "academic exercise" to be much more than > that...) > > but -- > > -- well, try to send a pdf file to a printer, ok?! > > PDF is not a new PS, and it will not be one, as long as the > number of popular rendering machines remains so small (Acrobat > and GhostScript). This is one difference. There is another one: > > I didn't forget yet NeWS, nor Display PostScript. This is a > programming language. You might insert *into a document* some > plugged-in goodies, such as the repagination, you may dynamically > create new fonts, etc. PDF is static, almost dead. Of course, > there are hyperlinks and widgets, but they belong to the > external interpretation layer, not to the document. You might > say that in PS everything is external as well, PS is interpreted, > but the conceptual differences between PS and PDF are big. > PostScript is extensible. Like TeX!! But passing through DVI > kills it. The "marketplace" seems to be forgetting Display PostScript. Many vendor's Y2K compliant OS's have dropped or reduced DPS support. Bluestone says DPS-NX (which provides DPS extensions to ordinary X servers) won't be available for Solaris 2.6. I have not been able to get support for DPS-NX problems on our SGI Irix 6.x systems. Digital says DPS is "unsupported" after Dec. 1998. > I really need some possibility to *compute* things while > typesetting a document, in particular in the domain of graphics. I think the history of PostScript shows that the ability to compute things at rendering time is more often (ab)used to create printer-specific documents than to do sensible things. A random sample of Fortran programs, html documents, or statistical analyses will show a similar gap between sound practice and reality. A great deal of effort is going towards design of languages/systems that will somehow reduce the gap between real-world usage and some "ideal". Most PostScript these days is created by device drivers via a graphics model which assumes all the calculations have been done in the application. Drivers use PostScript programming to map the device-independent model into the PostScript imaging model, e.g. to simplify the job of the device driver. To use PostScript for calculations such as you describe requires bypassing the usual device driver mechanisms. > I like thus PS, because we have it. The PostScript imaging model has served us reasonably well, although some people would like transparency. There are two issues facing the TeX community: 1) what underlying graphics models will be supported by our tools?, and 2) what languages will be available to implement the models? > Obviously, it is horrible, and I usually make my drawings > in MetaPost rather than with PSTricks, but *somewhere* > a full-fledged programming structures must appear - either > near the front-end, like in MP, or at the back end (PS). > > All the best. > > Jerzy Karczmarczuk > Caen, France. Certainly the Win32 graphics model is the most widely used at present, but seems to present some challenges for conversion to PostScript. There are, however, several proposed page description "languages" that use the PostScript imaging model in addition to PostScript/PDF (2-D Java API, Precision Graphics Markup Language (PGML), Apple's OS X graphics). As long as the imaging model doesn't change too much, MetaPost can become MetaPGML, etc. without complete redesign. One danger, however, is that the scarce resource of programming effort may be spread too thinly across the various page description languages. TeX does have the advantage that the imaging model is simple enough that it is a subset of the popular models in use today, but then we have to find ways around the limitations of TeX's model. -- George White Halifax, Nova Scotia From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 07:25:11 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20219 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:25:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA25848 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:17:24 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA25845 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:17:22 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id NAA04800; hop 0; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:09:07 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:17:15 +0000 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:17:25 +0000 Message-ID: <8536-Tue24Nov1998131725+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q) From: Sebastian Rahtz To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: ultimated pdfetex (NOT) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk It has been represented to me that people are getting fed up with this thread, which has wandered a little. Would you all mind if we gave it a rest for a while? fit in some more directly pdftex stuff? sebastian-the-dictator (pdfTeX list owner) From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 07:43:14 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20538 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:43:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA25979 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:54:16 -0500 Received: from relay1.jet.msk.su (relay1.jet.msk.su [194.87.88.34]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA25976 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:54:13 -0500 Received: from tiger (tiger.jet.msk.su) [193.124.4.1] by relay1.jet.msk.su with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0ziIum-0000VD-00; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:54:00 +0300 Received: from goliath.service.jet.msk.su [192.168.10.29] (root) by tiger.jet.msk.su with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #2) id 0ziIum-0000FA-00; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:54:00 +0300 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=jet.msk.su ident=tobotras) by goliath.service.jet.msk.su with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0ziIul-0001W3-00; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:53:59 +0300 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.2 2/24/98 To: root cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: "ultimate" pdfetex? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:53:58 +0300 From: Boris Tobotras Message-Id: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:41:39 +0100, root wrote: > Neither of these is strickly sensible, but both happen to be fairly > easy to implement using already existing software. I would be > incredibly happy if Jade had a TeX-style (DVI or PDF) backend, but > this is quite unlikely to appear in the sort term, I'm afraid. What is that deep difference between running jade && pdflatex (or just latex) and just jade-with-exciting-TeX-style-backend ? -- Best regards, -- Boris. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 07:58:43 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20914 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA25805 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:05:17 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA25802 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:05:15 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA04239; hop 0; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:57:00 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:04:55 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13914.40156.189607.104974@srahtz> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:47:40 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: ANNOUNCING dvipdfm v0.7 In-Reply-To: <199811241033.KAA20754@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> References: <199811241033.KAA20754@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk people on this list might find the following of interest, if they have not seen it already sebastian This is dvipdfm v0.7, a DVI to PDF translator. I wrote this mainly as exercise to get at the features of PDF I wanted to experiment with. You're probably wondering why I don't use PDFTeX. I am a bit of a purist and I would rather use TeX unmodified. You can get dvipdfm or its documentation from the links at http://odo.kettering.edu/dvipdfm Features: - TeX \special's that approximate the functionality of the PostScript pdfmarks used by Adobe Acrobat Distiller. Links, outlines, articles, and named destinations are supported, for example. - Ability to include PDF files and JPEG files as embedded images. For PDF files, only the first page is included. Resources will be embedded from the original file as necessary. File inclusion does not work for PDF files that store the page contents in several segments in an array. - Support for arbitrary linear graphics transformations. Any material on the page can be scaled and rotated. - A color stack accessible via \special's. - Beginning of page (BOP) and end of page (EOP) \special's for placing arbitrary PDF stream graphics on every page. - Works great on plain old DVI files. Limitations (at present): - No Virtual font support in this version. This means that the "times", "palatino", and similar packages that require virtual fonts will not work correctly. Virtual font support is in progress and this should be supported soon. - No output PDF stream compression. Input PDF files may be contain compressed streams, however. Flate compression of PDF output streams will be supported in a future version. - No package support yet. Graphics can be included via \special's, but there is no higher level macro support. There is no interfacet for \includegraphics, for example. Rotation isn't implemented yet. This should be easy to implement for included figures and will be added soon. This code is definitely young, but it has worked flawlessly for me (used extensively under Linux and used somewhat under Solaris 2.5) YMMV. Mark A. Wicks ______________________________________________________________________ Mark A. Wicks, Associate Professor mwicks@kettering.edu.NOSPAM ECE Department, Kettering University Voice: (810) 762-7992 1700 West Third Ave, Flint, MI 48504-4898 Fax: (810) 762-9830 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 09:07:03 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22494 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:06:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA26697 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:20:57 -0500 Received: from aida.inet.cz (root@aida.inet.cz [194.196.192.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA26693 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:20:47 -0500 Received: from SnowWhite.math.muni.cz (IDENT:pavel@snowwhite.math.muni.cz [147.251.80.250]) by aida.inet.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA13376; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:19:30 +0100 Received: (from pavel@localhost) by SnowWhite.math.muni.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA01168; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:18:19 +0100 To: Han The Thanh Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Subject: Re: TIFF inclusion support again References: <199811241039.LAA06196@anxur.fi.muni.cz> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.1.129 on Intel, Linux 2.0.36 on SPARC Organization: INET a.s., Kralovopolska 139, Brno, 60112, Czech Republic X-URL-PGP: http://www.inet.cz/~pjanik X-Phone: +420 5 41321276 ext. 171, +420 5 41321251 ext. 17 X-Spam: No unsolicited e-mail. 500 dollars per message proof-reading for unsolicited e-mail. X-Not-Receiving-Mail-From: mrp.cz, hotmail.com, post.cz, email.cz, usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: 24 Nov 1998 16:18:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: Han The Thanh's message of Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:39:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: Lines: 28 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk From: Han The Thanh Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:39:05 +0100 (MET) Hi, > I am willing to add the config stuff for compiling TIFF version to pdftex > sources, so one can decide which version to compile by saying ie: > > make pdftex-with-tiff :-) Ok, I will try to fix libtiff stuff to fit in the current libs scheme. > I am considering to update the manual, which is too out-of-date already. The > question is the README file should contain any such information, or just > references to the manual. I think that at least installation instruction should be in README (remember my sentence: easier installation, more users, more testers, less bugs, less work to do...) BTW - see ftp://ftp.cstug.cz/pub/local/cstug/janik/pdftex-0.12r-tiff/ There is my patch with pdftexsrc linked to your tree and script Install which should be enough test TIFF inclusion. -- Pavel Janik ml. Pavel.Janik@inet.cz From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Nov 24 10:53:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25336 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:53:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA27232 for pdftex-list; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:14:21 -0500 Received: from regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (te@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de [130.75.26.7]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA27229 for ; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:14:18 -0500 Received: (from te@localhost) by regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id SAA13248 for pdftex@tug.org; Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:13:56 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:13:56 +0100 (MET) From: Thomas Esser Message-Id: <199811241713.SAA13248@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de> To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: minor fix for e2pall Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk The pattern with .* is a little bit too greedy. I suggest to use [^}]* instead... Thomas *** e2pall.orig Tue Nov 24 18:08:58 1998 --- e2pall Tue Nov 24 18:09:31 1998 *************** *** 31,40 **** # truncate $line after % sign.... $line=~s/%.*//; # check for /input.... ! if ($line=~/input{(.*)}/){ print `$ThisFunCom $1`; } ! if ($line=~/includegraphics.*{(.*)}/){ # check that the eps version is newer than the pdf version.... if ((-M "$1.pdf") >= (-M "$1.eps")){ print "Constructing $1.pdf from $1.eps\n"; --- 31,40 ---- # truncate $line after % sign.... $line=~s/%.*//; # check for /input.... ! if ($line=~/input{([^}]*)}/){ print `$ThisFunCom $1`; } ! if ($line=~/includegraphics.*{([^}]*)}/){ # check that the eps version is newer than the pdf version.... if ((-M "$1.pdf") >= (-M "$1.eps")){ print "Constructing $1.pdf from $1.eps\n"; From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 25 04:36:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18785 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:36:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA28373 for pdftex-list; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:41:17 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA28370 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:41:16 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.186]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1839; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:40:38 +0100 Message-ID: <365BC752.7FA629A0@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:01:06 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jerzy Karczmarczuk CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: XeT tfel-ot-thgiR References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <13913.34273.972158.685872@srahtz> <3659EA0D.C0AB54D4@wxs.nl> <365A6719.82572E03@info.unicaen.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jerzy Karczmarczuk wrote: > > > pockets of France and Israel). so what chance eTeX? > > > > I think right-left typesetting must act on whole docs, like in omega. > Don't tell that to the Arabic language teachers, and other people > who need *inclusions* of such segaugnal. Can you explain that? I now that some typographics remain left right, but when typeseting an e.g. arabic book. isn't the main text all right left with intermitting LR things, like math? I was more thinking of complicated things. To mention one: I prefer navigational things to be not at the beginning of the page/line, so at the bottom or right margin. That way it does not disturb the reading. But when reading from bottom to top or roght to left, should also these things be reversed? So, how does RL typesetting affect the overal page design. And, is only math LR or is there more. It's a bit off topic, but pdfetex opened this box and it *does* affect some pdf related things like hyperstuff. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 25 04:37:00 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18789 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:36:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA28380 for pdftex-list; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:41:58 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA28377 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:41:56 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.186]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA73; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:41:24 +0100 Message-ID: <365BDDDD.A51B3626@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:37:17 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George White CC: Jerzy Karczmarczuk , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Direct PostScript useless? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White wrote: > long as the imaging model doesn't change too much, MetaPost can become > MetaPGML, etc. without complete redesign. One danger, however, is that > the scarce resource of programming effort may be spread too thinly across > the various page description languages. I'm still looking for a way to get MP to handle more fancy graphic things, like blends. Must be not that hard using pdftex. I'm already waiting for emetapost -) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 25 04:43:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18909 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:43:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA28374 for pdftex-list; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:41:20 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA28367 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:41:13 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.186]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4E6E; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:40:41 +0100 Message-ID: <365BC7DA.33557E0@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:03:22 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Pavel Janik ml." CC: pdftex@tug.org, thanh@fi.muni.cz Subject: Re: TIFF inclusion support again References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Pavel Janik ml. wrote: > I have one additional note for Thanh: > > In README file you write: > > 4) Create formats: > pdftex -ini -fmt=pdftex plain \\dump > pdftex -ini -fmt=pdflatex latex.ltx > > Please can you add how to create pdfetex format? > > pdfetex -ini -efmt=pdfetex plain \\dump Well, then you still have tex and not etex. pdfetex -ini -efmt=pdftex *plain \\dump (or maybe load the etex plain alternative, called etex.tex). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 25 06:03:43 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA20305 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:03:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA28820 for pdftex-list; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:18:33 -0500 Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA28817 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:18:32 -0500 Received: from aa056@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <34713-1024>; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:18:16 -0400 Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:18:16 -0400 (AST) From: George White To: Hans Hagen cc: Jerzy Karczmarczuk , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Direct PostScript useless In-Reply-To: <365BDDDD.A51B3626@wxs.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Hans Hagen wrote: > George White wrote: > > > long as the imaging model doesn't change too much, MetaPost can become > > MetaPGML, etc. without complete redesign. One danger, however, is that > > the scarce resource of programming effort may be spread too thinly across > > the various page description languages. > > I'm still looking for a way to get MP to handle more fancy graphic > things, like blends. Must be not that hard using pdftex. I'm already > waiting for emetapost -) > > Hans I guess MetaPost already supports simple blends by filling a series of regions with different colors/grays, but more complex effects would require support for images, which is, I think, in PGML. So now we _are_ extending MetaPost to a more general graphics model, and new primitives will be needed to support this. -- George White Halifax, Nova Scotia From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 25 07:07:43 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21518 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:07:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA29054 for pdftex-list; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:06:12 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA29051 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:06:10 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA08486; hop 0; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:57:55 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:05:52 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13915.64835.468717.948879@srahtz> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:51:15 +0000 (GMT) To: aa056@chebucto.ns.ca Cc: pragma@wxs.nl, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Direct PostScript useless In-Reply-To: References: <365BDDDD.A51B3626@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White writes: > I guess MetaPost already supports simple blends by filling a series of > regions with different colors/grays, but more complex effects would > require support for images, which is, I think, in PGML. So now we _are_ > extending MetaPost to a more general graphics model, and new primitives > will be needed to support this. worth the effort, though. Having MetaPost-Next-Generation as a high-level language which produces SVG (PGML/SVG amalgam, when it comes; first draft due next month) would be an excellent tool for "people like us". We will be able to use the SVG directly in browsers, and convert to PDF trivially for when we want to embed in PDF documents for printing. I confess, i was impressed by the way portable vector graphics in browsers looks set to take off. fun ahead. Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 25 09:20:45 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25838 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29449 for pdftex-list; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:37:39 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA29446 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:37:36 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.42]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA559B; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:36:58 +0100 Message-ID: <365C23DE.87D77A8E@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:35:58 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George White CC: Jerzy Karczmarczuk , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Direct PostScript useless References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White wrote: > I guess MetaPost already supports simple blends by filling a series of > regions with different colors/grays, but more complex effects would > require support for images, which is, I think, in PGML. So now we _are_ > extending MetaPost to a more general graphics model, and new primitives > will be needed to support this. yes, I've used that blending method, but it's rather inefficient and scaled poorly. At TUG98 there were impressive demos of all kind of fillings in MP, but I'm still not sure how to do it in PDF. If anyone knows ... let me know. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 25 09:37:48 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26257 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:37:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA29431 for pdftex-list; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:28:30 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA29428 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:28:28 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:28:07 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id PAA10300; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:27:32 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:27:32 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: XeT tfel-ot-thgiR In-Reply-To: <365BC752.7FA629A0@wxs.nl> References: <199811180831.JAA03505@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36531D5E.3F30F6AD@apl.washington.edu> <3653E200.53A8170B@wxs.nl> <365401C7.66237EA5@info.unicaen.fr> <36541520.6EB81ED8@wxs.nl> <13908.10597.156956.376729@fell.open.ac.uk> <13913.34273.972158.685872@srahtz> <3659EA0D.C0AB54D4@wxs.nl> <365A6719.82572E03@info.unicaen.fr> <365BC752.7FA629A0@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13916.7813.240549.744821@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen (I think) wrote -- > > > I think right-left typesetting must act on whole docs, like in omega. And I also think he was misinterpreted. This does not mean that there is no LR in the document but that the document itself is an RL-document within which are RL parts (maybe several pargaraphs). This is the difference between TeX-(-)XeT and omega (or what omega intends to provide): it maybe seem like a small difference from an LR-culture but it is very important to other traditions, especially when they try to write LaTeX packages/classes. It may not appear that way on the surface but that is because TeX-(-)XeT provides precisely that surface appearance; deeper down the documant is LR. Hans Hagen (definitely) wrote -- > > I was more thinking of complicated things. To mention one: I prefer > navigational things to be not at the beginning of the page/line, so at > the bottom or right margin. That way it does not disturb the reading. > But when reading from bottom to top or roght to left, should also these > things be reversed? So, how does RL typesetting affect the overal page > design. And, is only math LR or is there more. This may sound like a question of style but, even having made the decision, implementing it without proper support for RL pages etc is difficult! An example, form a deep level: what does/should \leftskip mean in an RL doc? > It's a bit off topic, but pdfetex opened this box and it *does* affect > some pdf related things like hyperstuff. Don't worry, XML and Sebastian wil fix all those problems so the rest of us can all relax:-). chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Nov 25 10:07:41 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27099 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:07:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA29639 for pdftex-list; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:23:54 -0500 Received: from orion.ffo.fgan.de (orion.ffo.fgan.de [195.254.45.200]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29636 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:23:52 -0500 Received: from mira ([172.20.100.10]) by orion.ffo.fgan.de via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 25 Nov 1998 16:27:49 UT Received: from wrk010 ([172.20.10.10]) by mira.ffo.intra.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id 176 for ; Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:59:50 +0100 From: "Wolfram Liebchen" To: Subject: RE: XeT tfel-ot-thgiR Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:00:07 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be188c$ac0d3f70$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <365BC752.7FA629A0@wxs.nl> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > From: owner-pdftex@tug.org [mailto:owner-pdftex@tug.org]On Behalf Of > Hans Hagen > > > I think right-left typesetting must act on whole docs, like in omega. > > > Don't tell that to the Arabic language teachers, and other people > > who need *inclusions* of such segaugnal. > > Can you explain that? I now that some typographics remain left right, > but when typeseting an e.g. arabic book. isn't the main text all right > left with intermitting LR things, like math? A simple book written in arabic languages has all things turned round: bullets and enumeration-numbers are on the right side of the page. A book has the title-page as the "last" side (from our view), i.e. the binding is done on the right side. Chapters should start on a left side, which is still an odd page, yet. Only few things are written LR: numbers, formulae, enclosed latin text. -- Wolfram -- Wolfram Liebchen liebchen@ffo.fgan.de Forschungsinstitut für Optik Schloß Kreßbach 72072 Tübingen Tel: ++49 7071 709-158 Fax: ++49 7071 709-270 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 26 07:51:19 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25413 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:51:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA31023 for pdftex-list; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:46:31 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA31020 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:46:30 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id NAA17622; hop 0; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:38:12 GMT Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:46:18 +0000 Received: from lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.7]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24027 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:46:05 GMT Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA29059; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:46:13 GMT Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:46:13 GMT Message-Id: <199811261346.NAA29059@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> From: Sebastian Rahtz To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: map files and pdftex Version 3.14159-0.12r In-Reply-To: <199811261338.IAA31002@tug.org> References: <199811261338.IAA31002@tug.org> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk i append a truncated version of an over-long email (sorry guys, its the way majordomo works) the answer looks fairly clear - without the map files, pdftex uses PK fonts == bad quality PDF. Sebastian ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Frappier Organization: Universiti de Sherbrooke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: map files and pdftex Version 3.14159-0.12r (Web2c 7.2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------05DDB490A729F730D85AC2AA" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've just installed the latest beta version of PDFTEX for win32 from ftp://ftp.ese-metz.fr/pub/TeX/win32/pdftex-0.12r-win32.zip to properly generate slides in PDF. With the previous version, pieces of text were missing on the slides. With this new version, all the text is there, but the slides look awful when displayed with acrobat reader; the text is displayed in a very rough (approximate) font. I also get the following messages when running pdflatex: Warning: pdflatex.exe (file bakomaextra.map): cannot open font map file Warning: pdflatex.exe (file bsr.map): cannot open font map file Warning: pdflatex.exe (file charter.map): cannot open font map file Warning: pdflatex.exe (file hoekwater.map): cannot open font map file Warning: pdflatex.exe (file lucidabr.map): cannot open font map file Warning: pdflatex.exe (file lw35extra_urw.map): cannot open font map file Warning: pdflatex.exe (file marvosym.map): cannot open font map file Warning: pdflatex.exe (file utopia.map): cannot open font map file Moreover, latex documents which were properly processed with the previous version now suffer similar problems. -- Here is the log file for the slides. -- This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12r (Web2c 7.2) (format=pdflatex 1998.11.8) 25 NOV 1998 23:37 **slides (slides.tex .... Here is how much of TeX's memory you used: 1178 strings out of 15662 13795 string characters out of 144233 62791 words of memory out of 263001 4124 multiletter control sequences out of 10000+10000 17024 words of font info for 66 fonts, out of 200000 for 1000 15 hyphenation exceptions out of 1000 32i,16n,25p,215b,331s stack positions out of 300i,100n,500p,30000b,4000s < d:\tex\texmf/fonts/pk/ljfour/public/cm/dpi1037/cmtt12.pk> Output written on slides.pdf (44 pages, 891442 bytes). -- Thanks in advance for your help. An example pdf file is attached. ****(removed by Sebastian) From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Nov 26 07:52:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25432 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:52:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA31054 for pdftex-list; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:04:21 -0500 Received: from carouge.DMI.USherb.CA (root@carouge.DMI.USherb.CA [132.210.40.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA31051 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:04:20 -0500 Received: from dmi.usherb.ca (dock-frappier.DMI.USherb.CA [132.210.40.142]) by carouge.DMI.USherb.CA (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA24943 for ; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:04:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <365D5F47.5FFCD03@dmi.usherb.ca> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:01:43 -0500 From: Marc Frappier Organization: Université de Sherbrooke X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex Subject: Re: map files and pdftex Version 3.14159-0.12r References: <199811261338.IAA31002@tug.org> <199811261346.NAA29059@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Does any one have a pointer to a web site with the following map files bakomaextra.map bsr.map charter.map hoekwater.map lucidabr.map lw35extra_urw.map marvosym.map utopia.map Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > the answer looks fairly clear - without the map files, pdftex uses PK > fonts == bad quality PDF. Regards -- Marc Frappier, Ph.D., professeur | tel: 819-821-8000x2096 Dept. de math. et d'informatique | fax: 819-821-8200 Universite de Sherbrooke | marc.frappier@dmi.usherb.ca Sherbrooke (Quebec) Canada J1K 2R1 | http://www.dmi.usherb.ca/~frappier From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 27 02:04:33 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA15715 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 02:04:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA32493 for pdftex-list; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:17:41 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA32490 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:17:39 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.3]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6675; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 09:17:35 +0100 Message-ID: <365DDA94.5BB4B235@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 23:47:48 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex Subject: niknak (ps topdf) / true type Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm just reading an article of Thomas Merz (so there is reason enough to believe it) about niknak, a 150dfl/80$ postscript to pdf converter. Lots of control over the output. Sounds like a good solution for those who want to convert eps to pdf graphics low budget. www.5-d.com www.nmtools.com Maybe more important is that the article mentions that this converter makes sure that the true type fonts are included in such a way that viewing/printing is ok on several platforms/printers. So indeed the problems originate in the viewers. I've never used true type fonts, but reading the mails about true type problems with pdftex, maybe their solution is interesting for pdftex too. Has to do with encoding, but others can probably shed more light on this. (C'T computer magazine) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 27 14:32:55 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02935 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:32:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA00700 for pdftex-list; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:21:16 -0500 Received: from web1.ecol.net (web1.ecol.net [12.2.97.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA00697 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 15:21:14 -0500 Received: from web1.ecol.net [209.83.16.107] by web1.ecol.net with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.07) id A08537E0230; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 13:41:57 CSTCDT Message-ID: <365F09D0.D745CCEB@web1.ecol.net> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:21:36 -0600 From: Michael Penkava Reply-To: penkavmr@uwec.edu X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Minus signs don't print Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I am using Miktex to tex my documents, and thus am using the version of pdftex that comes with the Miktex distribution. My pdftex config file is output_format 1 compress_level 9 decimal_digits 2 page_width 210mm page_height 297mm horigin 1in vorigin 1in % map standard.map map +cm.map % map +logo.map % map +lucida.map % map +misc.map % map +cs.map % map +cmttf.map % map +test.map % map +ttftest.map % map +mono.map I wrote the list here some time ago because my colleagues and I in the math department were experiencing the difficulty that minus signs do not print when a document is sent to the HP postscript printer. They do show up on the acrobat reader screen. Somebody wrote back that we might be using the wrong fonts, but we did not do anything special. The problem is serious, because we obviously cannot use pdftex to post assignments to our web pages if they cannot be used by students in a completely simple manner to print the correct information. The whole point of using pdftex from our point of view is so that students would be able to print from our web pages without using a postscript viewer, which most of the students don't have access to. But if it can not handle the printing of the most simple things, it does not meet the needs of the mathematics community. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Nov 27 18:45:42 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07604 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 18:45:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id UAA01309 for pdftex-list; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:18:48 -0500 Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite.sentex.ca [199.212.134.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA01306 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:18:47 -0500 Received: from pppuser.uoguelph.ca (p26a.silicon.sentex.ca [207.245.212.59]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA29038 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:18:38 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811280118.UAA29038@granite.sentex.net> X-Sender: mathtrek@mathtrek.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 20:18:15 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org From: "W. R. Smith" Subject: Re: Minus signs don't print In-Reply-To: <365F09D0.D745CCEB@web1.ecol.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I was probably the one who respnded earlier. In my "other life", I'm a math prof who puts assignments, solutions, etc. on a course web site. Sinc the last discussion, we have discovered: 1. The problem does not appear on all printers - but HP laserjets are a real problem. 2, A "fix" - could you pls verify- is the configure the printer (under "fonts" properties) to "Print truetype as graphics". The reason I'm not sure is that I can trigger the error on my local printer when it is configured as "Download truetype fonts as bitmap soft fonts". Can someone on this list more knowledgable than me tell us why the "bitmap soft fonts" option does not work? >I wrote the list here some time ago because my colleagues >and I in the math department were experiencing the difficulty >that minus signs do not print when a document is sent to the >HP postscript printer. They do show up on the acrobat reader >screen. > >Somebody wrote back that we might be using the wrong fonts, but >we did not do anything special. The problem is serious, because >we obviously cannot use pdftex to post assignments to our web >pages if they cannot be used by students in a completely simple >manner to print the correct information. > >The whole point of using pdftex from our point of view is so >that students would be able to print from our web pages without >using a postscript viewer, which most of the students don't >have access to. But if it can not handle the printing of the >most simple things, it does not meet the needs of the mathematics >community. > -- W. R. Smith, PhD, P. Eng., Senior Scientist, Mathtrek Systems -- 3-304 Stone Road West, Suite 165, Guelph, Ontario CANADA N1G 4W4 EMail: support@mathtrek.com Tel:519-763-1356,FAX:519-763-4525 --------------------- http://www.mathtrek.com --------------------- -Mathtrek Systems - Home of EQS4WIN Chemical Equilibrium Software - From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Nov 29 06:43:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA15878 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 06:43:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA02521 for pdftex-list; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:49:47 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA02518 for ; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:49:43 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-8-37.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.99]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA11816; Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:49:32 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <3660A784.E20732BC@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 12:46:44 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: penkavmr@uwec.edu CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Minus signs don't print References: <365F09D0.D745CCEB@web1.ecol.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Michael Penkava wrote: > > I am using Miktex to tex my documents, and > thus am using the version of pdftex that > comes with the Miktex distribution. My > pdftex config file is > > output_format 1 > compress_level 9 > decimal_digits 2 > page_width 210mm > page_height 297mm > horigin 1in > vorigin 1in > % map standard.map > map +cm.map > % map +logo.map > % map +lucida.map > % map +misc.map > % map +cs.map > % map +cmttf.map > % map +test.map > % map +ttftest.map > % map +mono.map > > I wrote the list here some time ago because my colleagues > and I in the math department were experiencing the difficulty > that minus signs do not print when a document is sent to the > HP postscript printer. They do show up on the acrobat reader > screen. > > Somebody wrote back that we might be using the wrong fonts, but > we did not do anything special. The problem is serious, because > we obviously cannot use pdftex to post assignments to our web > pages if they cannot be used by students in a completely simple > manner to print the correct information. > > The whole point of using pdftex from our point of view is so > that students would be able to print from our web pages without > using a postscript viewer, which most of the students don't > have access to. But if it can not handle the printing of the > most simple things, it does not meet the needs of the mathematics > community. I looked at your "Math 311 Homework 10" pdf file, and certainly the minus signs appeared on my screen. Not having an HP postscript printer, I can't observe them not printing, but it seems to me that the problem must be with your printer set-up rather than pdftex. I installed the printer driver for an HP Laserjet 4/4M Postscript printer, choosing "print to file" instead of printing to a genuine printer, and used ghostview to view the resulting postscript file. It all looked OK, including minus signs. Perhaps you should try installing a different printer driver. Bob Howlett School of Mathematics and Statistics University of Sydney From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Nov 30 09:55:04 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16226 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:55:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA04187 for pdftex-list; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:42:36 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA04184 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:42:34 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id PAA15828; hop 0; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:34:13 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:41:31 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13922.48088.377786.633918@srahtz> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:38:00 +0000 (GMT) To: chj@lin.foa.se Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex.def In-Reply-To: <199811280953.KAA14443@arnljot.lin.foa.se> References: <1853-Thu03Sep1998150154+0100-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <199811280953.KAA14443@arnljot.lin.foa.se> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Christian Joensson FOA 72 writes: > As I understand, I can copy your pdftex.def to my cwd, run pdflatex on my > source file, and using the following latex commands should almost do it. > > in the preamble: > > \usepackage[pdftex]{graphicx} > > first in the document: > > \DeclareGraphicsExtensions{.jpg,.pdf,.mps,.png} no, you dont need this. the pdftex.def has it in > command necessary still? Can you give an example of what you mean > by ``.pdf also needs a Context module unless pdftex 0.12n or > later.'' as written in your pdftex.def? before PDF inclusion worked natively, PDF inclusion was done with clever TeX macros. > As I use pdftex 0.12h ``This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12h > (Web2C 7.2)'', I assume that I might have troubles. Perhaps this I'd very strongly suggest you upgrade. pdfTeX changes quite often, as befits its research status, and (in my view) you need to be be prepared to track new versions if you have problems. I have personally always encouraged Thanh NOT to make any promises about features, or be forced in some direction for stability. I think its better that he experiments than that we get a rock solid production quality program at this stage. after all, if you want solid stuff, buy Distiller.. sorry, getting off topic. just a mild warning that using older versions of pdfTeX is not a good idea sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 03:15:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA09868 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:15:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA05938 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:32:24 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA05935 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:32:22 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA11802; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:32:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA18721; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:32:14 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199812010932.KAA18721@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: map files and pdftex Version 3.14159-0.12r In-Reply-To: <365D5F47.5FFCD03@dmi.usherb.ca> from Marc Frappier at "Nov 26, 98 09:01:43 am" To: marc.frappier@dmi.usherb.ca (Marc Frappier) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:32:14 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Does any one have a pointer to a web site with the following map files > > bakomaextra.map > bsr.map > charter.map > hoekwater.map > lucidabr.map > lw35extra_urw.map > marvosym.map > utopia.map > > Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > the answer looks fairly clear - without the map files, pdftex uses PK > > fonts == bad quality PDF. these map files were designed by Thomas (author of teTeX), so I guess they are available in teTeX distribution. They will be included in the next update of pdftexlib. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 04:06:10 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA10782 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:06:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA06098 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:29:36 -0500 Received: from cic.teleco.ulpgc.es (cic.teleco.ulpgc.es [193.145.140.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA06095 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:29:33 -0500 Received: from neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es (neumann [193.145.138.66]) by cic.teleco.ulpgc.es (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA08998 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:31:55 GMT Received: from NEUMANN/CORREO by neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es (Mercury 1.12); Tue, 1 Dec 98 10:29:32 +00 Received: from CORREO by NEUMANN (Mercury 1.12); Tue, 1 Dec 98 10:29:10 +00 From: "SEAN CORMAC MC CARTHY SUAREZ" <6638T@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es> To: pdftex@tug.org Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:29:04 GMT Subject: Shuffle pages X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <61E41F76E1@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I'm new to this list, and first of all I want to ask if there is something like a FAQ. Thank you. I'm running a small newsletter in Telecommunications & Electronics at my University, and I want to know if there is something like the "dvitodvi", "ps2ps" or "psbook" utilities to shuffle pages and rearrange them in such a way that they are ready to print in a booklet format directly in PDF instead of PS. Actually I would use LaTeX or TeX and dvips, then run it through pstops and/or psbook and finally use ghostscript to convert it to PDF. This way I would miss all the hyperref and other features that I get using pdftex, so I would have to do the work twice for diferent formats and different distributions... Any other ideas? I would thank you any help, or info on how to get done something like that in pdftex. Also we would like to publish an article about TeX and pdfTeX, but our knowledge about it is limited, so it would be great if somebody on the list is interested to write it (we will have to translate from English to Spanish but the author will remain the same) and give a push to the use of pdfTeX in my University. Thank you for all your help in advance. Sean C. McCarthy. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 04:19:44 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA10993 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:19:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA06179 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:48:06 -0500 Received: from orion.ffo.fgan.de (orion.ffo.fgan.de [195.254.45.200]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA06176 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:48:03 -0500 Received: from mira ([172.20.100.10]) by orion.ffo.fgan.de via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 1 Dec 1998 10:51:32 UT Received: from wrk010 ([172.20.10.10]) by mira.ffo.intra.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id 188 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:47:29 +0100 From: "Wolfram Liebchen" To: "pdfTeX-Liste" Subject: page size / position Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:47:58 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be1d18$0f2b7740$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, is it possible to specify the page origin within the TeX-source instead of using the horigin/vorigin entries of pdftex.cfg ? For the page size, I can use \pdfpagewidth and \pdfpageheight. What's the respective instruction for the origin? I didn't find it in the pdftex manual. Thanks, -- Wolfram -- Wolfram Liebchen liebchen@ffo.fgan.de Forschungsinstitut für Optik Schloß Kreßbach 72072 Tübingen Tel: ++49 7071 709-158 Fax: ++49 7071 709-270 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 04:22:44 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA11070 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:22:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA06154 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:45:12 -0500 Received: from orion.ffo.fgan.de (orion.ffo.fgan.de [195.254.45.200]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA06151 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:45:09 -0500 Received: from mira ([172.20.100.10]) by orion.ffo.fgan.de via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 1 Dec 1998 10:48:38 UT Received: from wrk010 ([172.20.10.10]) by mira.ffo.intra.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id 182 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:44:34 +0100 From: "Wolfram Liebchen" To: "pdfTeX-Liste" Subject: printing problems Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:45:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be1d17$a6d19940$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, what is the problem, that pdflatex generated documents are not printable via PostScript and GhostScript? (I use pdftex 0.12o-6 and 0.12r on Linux). All pdf-documents with inserted graphics (produced with ghostscript from eps-files) can be looked at with Acrobat Reader, but the printing to a PostScript printer fails at the pages with the graphics. The same happens, when I look at the pdf-document with gv/gs. The only way to print - to my knowledge - is to use the Win32 Acrobat Reader an print to a non-PostScript printer. (Then AcroRead renders the graphics, not PostScript). Is there a known workaround, or how can I avoid the failure? Thanks! -- Wolfram P.S.: Seen away from this printing problem, pdf(La)tex is great!!! -- Wolfram Liebchen liebchen@ffo.fgan.de Forschungsinstitut für Optik Schloß Kreßbach 72072 Tübingen Tel: ++49 7071 709-158 Fax: ++49 7071 709-270 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 04:52:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA11544 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:52:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA06430 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:09:16 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA06427 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:09:14 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id LAA07822; hop 0; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:00:53 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:08:51 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 I); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13923.52771.228961.498098@srahtz> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:08:19 +0000 (GMT) To: 6638T@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Shuffle pages In-Reply-To: <61E41F76E1@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es> References: <61E41F76E1@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk SEAN CORMAC MC CARTHY SUAREZ writes: > I'm new to this list, and first of all I want to ask if there is > something like a FAQ. Thank you. see http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/ for both a FAQ and a manual; you can translate either if you like. > I'm running a small newsletter in Telecommunications & > Electronics at my University, and I want to know if there is > something like the "dvitodvi", "ps2ps" or "psbook" utilities to > shuffle pages and rearrange them in such a way that they are ready to > print in a booklet format directly in PDF instead of PS. Actually I interesting question. i suspect there are several commercial tools to do these imposition jobs with PDF, but I don't know of a free one. you could always export the PDF to PS, use "psbook" as before, and then print from PS. you probably want to check out one of the PDF sites to see if you can locate a free tool for imposition Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 05:25:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA12117 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:25:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA06749 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:48:53 -0500 Received: from samba.intra.jablotron.cz (gw.jablotron.cz [194.228.41.250]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA06746 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:48:51 -0500 Received: from Osoba.intra.jablotron.cz (osoba.intra.jablotron.cz [192.168.250.38]) by samba.intra.jablotron.cz with SMTP id MAA27438 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:54:00 +0100 Message-ID: <199812011154.MAA27438@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jiri Osoba" Organization: Jablotron Ltd. - Development dpt. To: "pdfTeX-Liste" Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:50:41 +0200 Subject: Re: page size / position Reply-to: Jiri Osoba X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On 1 Dec 98 at 11:47, Wolfram Liebchen wrote: > Hello, > > is it possible to specify the page origin within the > TeX-source instead of using the horigin/vorigin entries > of pdftex.cfg ? > > For the page size, I can use \pdfpagewidth and \pdfpageheight. > What's the respective instruction for the origin? I didn't > find it in the pdftex manual. Generally - in my opinion - all dimensions (pagewidth, pageheight, horigin and vorigin) from pdftex.cfg should be read at the first \shipout - including true specification. Jiri. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 05:58:53 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA12687 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:58:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA07062 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:29:53 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA07058 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:29:51 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.217]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3AD1; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:28:51 +0100 Message-ID: <3663E024.BC0C287D@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:25:08 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SEAN CORMAC MC CARTHY SUAREZ <6638T@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es> CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Shuffle pages References: <61E41F76E1@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk SEAN CORMAC MC CARTHY SUAREZ wrote: > I'm running a small newsletter in Telecommunications & > Electronics at my University, and I want to know if there is > something like the "dvitodvi", "ps2ps" or "psbook" utilities to > shuffle pages and rearrange them in such a way that they are ready to > print in a booklet format directly in PDF instead of PS. Actually I > would use LaTeX or TeX and dvips, then run it through pstops and/or > psbook and finally use ghostscript to convert it to PDF. This way I > would miss all the hyperref and other features that I get using > pdftex, so I would have to do the work twice for diferent formats > and different distributions... There are plug ins availale for acrobat exchange that take care of this. > Any other ideas? I would thank you any help, or info on how to > get done something like that in pdftex. The fact that pdftex is the final stage (no postprocessing) is one ofthe reasons why in context page imposition is a built in feature (things like repeating pages, booklets, rotational things, 2/4/8/16 page per sheet etc.) There is an article on that in the MAPS, of which to m knowledge copies are still available at the NTG (dutch tex users group). > Also we would like to publish an article about TeX and pdfTeX, > but our knowledge about it is limited, so it would be great if > somebody on the list is interested to write it (we will have to > translate from English to Spanish but the author will remain the > same) and give a push to the use of pdfTeX in my University. The last few years I've written some things down, but if it is of use depends on what you want to tell your users. Also in that MAPS (in color). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 06:01:04 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12720 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:01:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA07061 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:29:53 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA07055 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:29:51 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.217]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA63E6; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:28:54 +0100 Message-ID: <3663E087.B58F17C@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:26:47 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wolfram Liebchen CC: pdfTeX-Liste Subject: Re: page size / position References: <000101be1d18$0f2b7740$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Wolfram Liebchen wrote: > For the page size, I can use \pdfpagewidth and \pdfpageheight. > What's the respective instruction for the origin? I didn't > find it in the pdftex manual. \hoffset and \voffset Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 07:04:50 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13899 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:04:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA07568 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:27:55 -0500 Received: from granite.sentex.net (granite.sentex.ca [199.212.134.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA07565 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:27:54 -0500 Received: from pppuser.uoguelph.ca (p27a.neon.sentex.ca [207.245.212.220]) by granite.sentex.net (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA08861 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:27:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812011327.IAA08861@granite.sentex.net> X-Sender: mathtrek@mathtrek.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 08:27:19 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org From: "W. R. Smith" Subject: Re: Shuffle pages, etc. In-Reply-To: <61E41F76E1@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk At 10:29 AM 12/1/98 +0000, SEAN CORMAC MC CARTHY SUAREZ wrote: > I'm running a small newsletter in Telecommunications & >Electronics at my University, and I want to know if there is >something like the "dvitodvi", "ps2ps" or "psbook" utilities to >shuffle pages and rearrange them in such a way that they are ready to >print in a booklet format directly in PDF instead of PS. Actually I >would use LaTeX or TeX and dvips, then run it through pstops and/or >psbook and finally use ghostscript to convert it to PDF. This way I >would miss all the hyperref and other features that I get using >pdftex, so I would have to do the work twice for diferent formats >and different distributions... > Any other ideas? I would thank you any help, or info on how to >get done something like that in pdftex. Anther possibility is to use the "full" version of Adobe acrobat. It's Distiller product converts ps to pdf directly. -- W. R. Smith, PhD, P. Eng., Senior Scientist, Mathtrek Systems -- 3-304 Stone Road West, Suite 165, Guelph, Ontario CANADA N1G 4W4 EMail: support@mathtrek.com Tel:519-763-1356,FAX:519-763-4525 --------------------- http://www.mathtrek.com --------------------- -Mathtrek Systems - Home of EQS4WIN Chemical Equilibrium Software - From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 07:36:33 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA14505 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:36:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA07803 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:59:44 -0500 Received: from md2.vsnl.net.in (md2.vsnl.net.in [202.54.6.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA07799 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:59:33 -0500 Received: from localhost (cvr@localhost) by md2.vsnl.net.in (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA29251; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:33:30 +0530 (IST) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:33:30 +0530 (IST) From: RADHAKRISHNAN C V To: Sebastian Rahtz cc: 6638T@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Shuffle pages In-Reply-To: <13923.52771.228961.498098@srahtz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > SEAN CORMAC MC CARTHY SUAREZ writes: > > something like the "dvitodvi", "ps2ps" or "psbook" utilities to > > shuffle pages and rearrange them in such a way that they are ready to > > print in a booklet format directly in PDF instead of PS. Actually I there is a macro in TeX that can do the imposition job and is available in TeXLive3 CDROM in the directory texmf/tex/generic/midnight/quire.tex. if it works with TeX, it can run with pdfTeX too. i invite you to make a try. radhakrishnan From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 07:43:35 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA14625 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:43:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA07886 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:10:24 -0500 Received: from samba.intra.jablotron.cz (gw.jablotron.cz [194.228.41.250]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07883 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:10:21 -0500 Received: from Osoba.intra.jablotron.cz (osoba.intra.jablotron.cz [192.168.250.38]) by samba.intra.jablotron.cz with SMTP id PAA29775 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6); Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:15:30 +0100 Message-ID: <199812011415.PAA29775@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jiri Osoba" Organization: Jablotron Ltd. - Development dpt. To: Hans Hagen Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:12:10 +0200 Subject: Re: page size / position Reply-to: Jiri Osoba CC: pdfTeX-Liste X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On 1 Dec 98 at 13:26, Hans Hagen wrote: > Wolfram Liebchen wrote: > > > For the page size, I can use \pdfpagewidth and \pdfpageheight. > > What's the respective instruction for the origin? I didn't > > find it in the pdftex manual. > > \hoffset and \voffset That's not true - point \hoffset=0,\voffset=0 is horigin and vorigin far from upper-left corner of the page. The problem is that this point should be (as you can read in The TeXbook) 1in down and 1in right from upper-left corner of the paper. This is true if you specify horigin=1in and vorigin=1in AND MAG=1000. If you specify any mag different from 1000, you will get different "1in" margins. And that is the problem, I thing. Horigin and vorigin sould be read WITHOUT applying mag. Jiri. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 08:08:24 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15172 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:08:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA08068 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:34:47 -0500 Received: from aida.inet.cz (root@aida.inet.cz [194.196.192.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08064 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:34:37 -0500 Received: from SnowWhite.inet.cz (IDENT:root@dialup6.inet.cz [194.196.193.6]) by aida.inet.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA13459; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:33:43 +0100 Received: (from pavel@localhost) by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01422; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:17:31 +0100 To: "Wolfram Liebchen" CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: printing problems References: <000001be1d17$a6d19940$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.1.130 on Intel, Linux 2.0.36 on SPARC Organization: INET a.s., Kralovopolska 139, Brno, 60112, Czech Republic X-URL-PGP: http://www.inet.cz/~pjanik X-Phone: +420 5 41321276 ext. 171, +420 5 41321251 ext. 17 X-Spam: No unsolicited e-mail. 500 dollars per message proof-reading for unsolicited e-mail. X-Not-Receiving-Mail-From: mrp.cz, hotmail.com, post.cz, email.cz, usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: 01 Dec 1998 15:17:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Wolfram Liebchen"'s message of Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:45:03 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 13 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk From: "Wolfram Liebchen" Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:45:03 +0100 Hi, > what is the problem, that pdflatex generated documents are > not printable via PostScript and GhostScript? > (I use pdftex 0.12o-6 and 0.12r on Linux). please can you put simple example of the input files on the web? -- Pavel Janik ml. Pavel.Janik@inet.cz From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 08:33:26 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15786 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08313 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:01:54 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08310 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:01:52 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.104]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA7BE; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:00:57 +0100 Message-ID: <3663E087.B58F17C@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 13:26:47 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wolfram Liebchen CC: pdfTeX-Liste Subject: Re: page size / position References: <000101be1d18$0f2b7740$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Wolfram Liebchen wrote: > For the page size, I can use \pdfpagewidth and \pdfpageheight. > What's the respective instruction for the origin? I didn't > find it in the pdftex manual. \hoffset and \voffset Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 09:07:21 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA16586 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:07:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08542 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:21:17 -0500 Received: from aida.inet.cz (root@aida.inet.cz [194.196.192.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08537 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:21:10 -0500 Received: from SnowWhite.inet.cz (IDENT:pavel@dialup6.inet.cz [194.196.193.6]) by aida.inet.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA16719 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:20:02 +0100 Received: (from pavel@localhost) by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA02220; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:19:43 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: ["Wolfram Liebchen" ] RE: printing problems X-Operating-System: Linux 2.1.130 on Intel, Linux 2.0.36 on SPARC Organization: INET a.s., Kralovopolska 139, Brno, 60112, Czech Republic X-URL-PGP: http://www.inet.cz/~pjanik X-Phone: +420 5 41321276 ext. 171, +420 5 41321251 ext. 17 X-Spam: No unsolicited e-mail. 500 dollars per message proof-reading for unsolicited e-mail. X-Not-Receiving-Mail-From: mrp.cz, hotmail.com, post.cz, email.cz, usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Multipart_Tue_Dec__1_16:19:40_1998-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: 01 Dec 1998 16:19:41 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 145 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk --Multipart_Tue_Dec__1_16:19:40_1998-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Sorry I do not have time to investigate it myself :-( -- Pavel Janík ml. Pavel.Janik@inet.cz --Multipart_Tue_Dec__1_16:19:40_1998-1 Content-Type: message/rfc822 From: "Wolfram Liebchen" Subject: RE: printing problems To: "Pavel Janik ml." Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:55:34 +0100 Message-ID: <000101be1d3a$a5d6f7b0$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01BE1D43.079B5FB0" [1 ] From: pavel@inet.cz [mailto:pavel@inet.cz]On Behalf Of Pavel Janik ml. > > please can you put simple example of the input files on the web? Hello Pavel, as I don't have publicly accessible web-space, I send the example in personal mail to you. It's a very simple example that is correctly displayed by AcroRead and that crashes ghostscript (PostScript printers also). I produced the pdf-graphic from an eps-file with ghostscript 5.10. This was done with the Perl-script by Sebastian Rahtz. Perhaps you have an idea, what's wrong! regards, Wolfram -- Wolfram Liebchen liebchen@ffo.fgan.de Forschungsinstitut für Optik Schloß Kreßbach 72072 Tübingen Tel: ++49 7071 709-158 Fax: ++49 7071 709-270 [2 test.tex ] [3 acwav.pdf ] --Multipart_Tue_Dec__1_16:19:40_1998-1 Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="test.tex" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit \documentclass[12pt,a4paper]{article} \usepackage[pdftex]{graphicx} \begin{document} This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! \includegraphics[width=\linewidth]{acwav.pdf} This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! This is a test! 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Europe Standard Time) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: Shuffle pages In-reply-to: <13923.52771.228961.498098@srahtz> To: 6638T@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es, pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13924.2260.960000.92552@PC709> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 References: <61E41F76E1@neumann.teleco.ulpgc.es> <13923.52771.228961.498098@srahtz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >> I'm running a small newsletter in Telecommunications & Electronics >> at my University, and I want to know if there is something like >> the "dvitodvi", "ps2ps" or "psbook" utilities to shuffle pages and >> rearrange them in such a way that they are ready to print in a >> booklet format directly in PDF instead of PS. Actually I Sebastian's solution sounds reasonable to me, but here are some other approaches: you could find a binary safe text editor, open the PDF document, find the lines that say: /Type /Pages /Kids [1 0 R 14 0 R 17 0 R 21 0 R 25 0 R 28 0 R] and rearrange the numbers yourself. the logic is "< R> < R> < R>". Make sure you always move triples, and they appear in print in the order that they are mentioned in the /Kids list. In this case, for instance, <25 0 R> is becoming page 5. This may not work for all documents (since the /Pages things can be nested) but generally this simple scheme will work just fine. Make sure you/your editor don't insert or delete any bytes though. [Or get a better printer driver...] [Or use ConTeXt, which has macro-based collationing up to blocks of 32 pages..] [Or wait until someone writes a perl script to do this] [Or buy Adobe Exchange] Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 10:17:04 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18524 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:16:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09275 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:37:29 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09271 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:37:26 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.37]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6991; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:37:22 +0100 Message-ID: <366406D4.B37A6AF5@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 16:10:12 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jiri Osoba CC: pdfTeX-Liste Subject: Re: page size / position References: <199812011415.PAA29775@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jiri Osoba wrote: > > On 1 Dec 98 at 13:26, Hans Hagen wrote: > > > Wolfram Liebchen wrote: > > > > > For the page size, I can use \pdfpagewidth and \pdfpageheight. > > > What's the respective instruction for the origin? I didn't > > > find it in the pdftex manual. > > > > \hoffset and \voffset > > That's not true - point \hoffset=0,\voffset=0 is horigin and vorigin > far from upper-left corner of the page. The problem is that this > point should be (as you can read in The TeXbook) 1in down and 1in Not *should* be, otherwise it should be fixed values. Most dvi drivers expect it to be 1in,1in, but pdftex is no dvi driver. > right from upper-left corner of the paper. This is true if you > specify horigin=1in and vorigin=1in AND MAG=1000. If you specify any > mag different from 1000, you will get different "1in" margins. And > that is the problem, I thing. Horigin and vorigin sould be > read WITHOUT applying mag. I fear that in the pdf(tex) environment mag does not make that much sense anymore -) if only because there are too many positiona/dimensional thing taken care of outside the tex engine, i.e. in pdfliterals, images, annotations etc. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 10:36:26 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19046 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:36:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA09389 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:56:36 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09386 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:56:33 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats (toucan.stats [163.1.20.20]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA10800; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:55:47 GMT Message-Id: <199812011655.QAA10800@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:55:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian Ripley Reply-To: Prof Brian Ripley Subject: Re: page size / position To: osoba@jablotron.cz, pragma@wxs.nl Cc: pdftex@tug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: w2VpuGjU0n7iP0eWfhoB5A== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I fear that in the pdf(tex) environment mag does not make that much > sense anymore -) > if only because there are too many positiona/dimensional thing taken > care of outside the tex engine, i.e. in pdfliterals, images, annotations > etc. OK, but I have a page layout designed for a printed book, and I want to make the on-line version 20% larger (to fill an A4 page and make reader's life easier if they want to print it). How do you suggest this should be done? _I_ think pdftex should have a magnification parameter in pdftex.cfg and use true sizes for the page size, but that is not how I am able to do it. -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 10:43:05 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19230 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:42:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09538 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:09:23 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken76.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09535 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:09:22 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.152]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10822; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:09:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36642407.D212D4BB@apl.washington.edu> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 09:14:47 -0800 From: Jody Klymak X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wolfram Liebchen CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: RE: printing problems References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi Wolfram, I'm afraid it works fine for me. win32/pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12o-7-tiff4 (Web2c 7.2). I'm suspecting your printer. I'm using an HP Laser Jet 5 SI MX. Cheers, Jody -- Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, Doctoral Candidate University of Washington mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu (206)-685-9080 http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 11:04:17 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19769 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:02:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA09742 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:30:21 -0500 Received: from top.coli.uni-sb.de (IDENT:z44kXRkh40qN2a0ACXKsOga9agwEOnJ/@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA09735 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:30:15 -0500 Received: from top (crysmann@top [134.96.68.10]) by top.coli.uni-sb.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA24847; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:28:45 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3664274C.6AD@coli.uni-sb.de> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 18:28:44 +0100 From: Berthold Crysmann Organization: Graduiertenkolleg Kognitionswissenschaft, Universitaet des Saarlandes X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jody Klymak CC: Wolfram Liebchen , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: printing problems References: <36642407.D212D4BB@apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jody Klymak wrote: > > Hi Wolfram, > > I'm afraid it works fine for me. win32/pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12o-7-tiff4 > (Web2c 7.2). > > I'm suspecting your printer. I'm using an HP Laser Jet 5 SI MX. > I can confirm this for viewing with gs 5.10 on both Solaris 2.6 SPARC and Linux x86. pdftex 0.12r Berthold -- Berthold Crysmann Universitaet des Saarlandes, Computerlinguistik Geb. 17.2, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken Tel. +49-681-302-4502 / Fax +49-681-302-4700 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 11:38:24 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20616 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:38:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA10089 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:04:30 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10086 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:04:26 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13946; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:04:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA00714; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:04:11 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199812011804.TAA00714@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: page size / position In-Reply-To: <199812011655.QAA10800@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> from Prof Brian Ripley at "Dec 1, 98 04:55:47 pm" To: ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:04:11 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > OK, but I have a page layout designed for a printed book, and I want > to make the on-line version 20% larger (to fill an A4 page and make > reader's life easier if they want to print it). How do you suggest > this should be done? _I_ think pdftex should have a magnification > parameter in pdftex.cfg and use true sizes for the page size, but that is not > how I am able to do it. one can use the "true" convention for \pdfpagewidth, \pdfpageheight in sources as well as in pdftex.cfg. It needs to be in the manual, yes. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 11:45:09 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA20811 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:44:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA10081 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:04:14 -0500 Received: from by.genie.uottawa.ca (by.genie.uottawa.ca [137.122.20.226]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA10078 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:04:13 -0500 Received: from zeus.genie.uottawa.ca by by.genie.uottawa.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04269; Tue, 1 Dec 98 13:04:10 EST Received: from yoho.uottawa.ca by zeus.genie.uottawa.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12678; Tue, 1 Dec 98 13:05:51 EST Received: by yoho.uottawa.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA21175; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:03:45 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:03:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199812011803.NAA21175@yoho.uottawa.ca> From: Lavoie Philippe To: pdftex Subject: Can't print either X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I have this problem too. I can't print when one of the page has a graphic which was generated from epstopdf. http://lowrent.org/nurbs/user.pdf It won't print page 6, even if it can be viewed correctly by Acroread. Phil From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 12:01:42 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21305 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:01:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA10275 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:22:28 -0500 Received: from top.coli.uni-sb.de (IDENT:3TBnvzfz9GD1O+p0mHqhlVdsJXxj0o4C@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA10271 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:22:25 -0500 Received: from top (crysmann@top [134.96.68.10]) by top.coli.uni-sb.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA29059; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:21:42 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <366433B5.206C@coli.uni-sb.de> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:21:41 +0100 From: Berthold Crysmann Organization: Graduiertenkolleg Kognitionswissenschaft, Universitaet des Saarlandes X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lavoie Philippe CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Can't print either References: <199812011803.NAA21175@yoho.uottawa.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Lavoie Philippe wrote: > > Hi, > > I have this problem too. I can't print when one of the page has a graphic > which was generated from epstopdf. > > http://lowrent.org/nurbs/user.pdf > > It won't print page 6, even if it can be viewed correctly by Acroread. > > Phil Doesn't print here either (HP Laserjet 5 something). Also gs 5.10 does not seem to like the file: Processing pages 1 through 11. Page 1 ****************Unknown operator: endobj50 ****************Unknown operator: obj Error: /undefined in --get-- Operand stack: 17.22 --dict:4/4-- --dict:4/4-- --dict:4/4-- Subtype Execution stack: %interp_exit .runexec2 --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 2 %stopped_push --nostringval-- 2 3 %oparray_pop --nostringval-- --nostringval-- false 1 %stopped_push 1 3 %oparray_pop --nostringval-- 2 1 11 --nostringval-- %for_pos_int_continue --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 0 --nostringval-- %array_continue --nostringval-- false 1 %stopped_push --nostringval-- %loop_continue --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- --nostringval-- 5 9 %oparray_pop Dictionary stack: --dict:770/809-- --dict:0/20-- --dict:47/200-- --dict:47/200-- --dict:120/127-- --dict:111/152-- --dict:10/10-- --dict:1/2-- --dict:16/20-- Current allocation mode is local -- Berthold Crysmann Universitaet des Saarlandes, Computerlinguistik Geb. 17.2, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken Tel. +49-681-302-4502 / Fax +49-681-302-4700 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 08:35:12 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15833 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:35:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA08317 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:01:57 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08314 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:01:54 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.104]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA7C2; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:01:00 +0100 Message-ID: <3663F824.AD2B4E@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:07:32 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jiri Osoba Subject: Re: page size / position References: <199812011154.MAA27438@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jiri Osoba wrote: > Generally - in my opinion - all dimensions (pagewidth, pageheight, > horigin and vorigin) from pdftex.cfg should be read at the first > \shipout - including true specification. Well, the values set by tex (\pdf...) should always overload the cfg ones. The cfg values are only needed when the macro package does not set them. Furthermore, because some positioning in pdf is hardcoded (related to origin), postponing till shipout is not always possible I guess. Also, the page width and height need to be taken into account before shipout, if only to position the typeset page on the paper page and calculate whatever offsets, backgrounds etc needed. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 1 15:15:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26590 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:15:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA10922 for pdftex-list; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:49:18 -0500 Received: from ins13.netins.net (root@ins13.netins.net [167.142.225.13]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA10919 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:49:16 -0500 Received: from netins.net (bwdc3.jhuapl.edu [128.244.192.197]) by ins13.netins.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19789; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:49:04 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3664562E.D058AE53@netins.net> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:48:46 -0500 From: Will Hires X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lavoie Philippe CC: pdftex Subject: Re: Can't print either References: <199812011803.NAA21175@yoho.uottawa.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Printing after page 5 failed for me, too....pages 1-5 DID print. I could view all pages in Acrobat. GS failed to even display the text. Will Lavoie Philippe wrote: > Hi, > > I have this problem too. I can't print when one of the page has a graphic > which was generated from epstopdf. > > http://lowrent.org/nurbs/user.pdf > > It won't print page 6, even if it can be viewed correctly by Acroread. > > Phil From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 2 00:09:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08188 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:09:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA11437 for pdftex-list; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:53:25 -0500 Received: from samba.intra.jablotron.cz (gw.jablotron.cz [194.228.41.250] (may be forged)) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA11434 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:53:23 -0500 Received: from Osoba.intra.jablotron.cz (osoba.intra.jablotron.cz [192.168.250.38]) by samba.intra.jablotron.cz with SMTP id HAA00651 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:59:00 +0100 Message-ID: <199812020659.HAA00651@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jiri Osoba" Organization: Jablotron Ltd. - Development dpt. To: pdftex@tug.org Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:55:15 +0200 Subject: Re: Can't print either Reply-to: Jiri Osoba X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On 1 Dec 98 at 19:21, Berthold Crysmann wrote: > Lavoie Philippe wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I have this problem too. I can't print when one of the page has a graphic > > which was generated from epstopdf. > > > > http://lowrent.org/nurbs/user.pdf > > > > It won't print page 6, even if it can be viewed correctly by Acroread. > > > > Phil > > Doesn't print here either (HP Laserjet 5 something). Also gs 5.10 does > not seem to > like the file: > > Processing pages 1 through 11. > Page 1 This was a bug of one old version of pdfTeX. Upgrade please. Jiri. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 2 00:13:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA08277 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:13:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA11393 for pdftex-list; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:46:28 -0500 Received: from samba.intra.jablotron.cz (gw.jablotron.cz [194.228.41.250] (may be forged)) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA11390 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:46:26 -0500 Received: from Osoba.intra.jablotron.cz (osoba.intra.jablotron.cz [192.168.250.38]) by samba.intra.jablotron.cz with SMTP id HAA00584 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6 for ); Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:52:02 +0100 Message-ID: <199812020652.HAA00584@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jiri Osoba" Organization: Jablotron Ltd. - Development dpt. To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:48:18 +0200 Subject: Re: page size / position Reply-to: Jiri Osoba X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jiri Osoba: > That's not true - point \hoffset=0,\voffset=0 is horigin and vorigin > far from upper-left corner of the page. The problem is that this > point should be (as you can read in The TeXbook) 1in down and 1in > right from upper-left corner of the paper. This is true if you > specify horigin=1in and vorigin=1in AND MAG=1000. If you specify any > mag different from 1000, you will get different "1in" margins. And > that is the problem, I thing. Horigin and vorigin sould be read > WITHOUT applying mag. Han The Thanh: > one can use the "true" convention for \pdfpagewidth, \pdfpageheight in sources > as well as in pdftex.cfg. It needs to be in the manual, yes. Oh - I'm sorry - I'm sorry - I'm sorry - I had this experience from old pdftex's versions - and I didn't discovered this GREAT change - thank you, Thanh. Jiri. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 2 00:57:13 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA09076 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:57:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA11786 for pdftex-list; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:39:35 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA11783 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:39:31 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14755 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:39:27 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA26415 for pdftex@tug.org; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:39:27 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199812020739.IAA26415@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Problem with printing To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:39:27 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, there is a problem with printing document containing included PDF pictures. This problem has been known, and in fact this is a bug of gv and Acrobat Reader (Acrobat Reader can display, but cannot print). Here is a part from discussion with the author of xpdf: > | In PDF 1.0 and 1.1, all named resources used in the form must be > | included in the Resources dictionary of each Page object on which the > | form appears, regardless of whether or not they also appear in the > | Resources dictionary of the form. > > It goes on to say that in PDF 1.2, form resources can be independent of > the page. > > > However, having done some testing, it seems that when Form resources > > are not included in Page resources, AcroReader displays it well > > but printing fails. GS fails to display PDF as well as PS produced by > > printing from AcroReader. > > Hm, sounds like Adobe can't even keep up with their own standards :-) I am trying to work around this problem. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 2 01:18:49 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09416 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:18:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA11888 for pdftex-list; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:56:56 -0500 Received: from orion.ffo.fgan.de (orion.ffo.fgan.de [195.254.45.200]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA11885 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:56:53 -0500 Received: from mira ([172.20.100.10]) by orion.ffo.fgan.de via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 2 Dec 1998 08:00:27 UT Received: from wrk010 ([172.20.10.10]) by mira.ffo.intra.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id 275 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:56:09 +0100 From: "Wolfram Liebchen" To: "pdfTeX-Liste" Subject: RE: Can't print either Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:56:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000301be1dc9$4b879000$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-reply-to: <199812020659.HAA00651@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk From: owner-pdftex@tug.org [mailto:owner-pdftex@tug.org]On Behalf Of Jiri Osoba > > On 1 Dec 98 at 19:21, Berthold Crysmann wrote: > > > > > Doesn't print here either (HP Laserjet 5 something). Also gs 5.10 does > > not seem to > > This was a bug of one old version of pdfTeX. Upgrade please. But I use version 0.12r (rather new). The problem was the same with 0.12o-6. Could it be, that gs5.10 and the Perl-script do a bad job, when they convert the eps-file into pdf? -- Wolfram -- Wolfram Liebchen liebchen@ffo.fgan.de Forschungsinstitut für Optik Schloß Kreßbach 72072 Tübingen Tel: ++49 7071 709-158 Fax: ++49 7071 709-270 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 2 01:45:04 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09804 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA12179 for pdftex-list; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:28:38 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA12176 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:28:37 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.61]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3B9D; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:27:03 +0100 Message-ID: <3664F516.687331AE@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:06:46 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Berthold Crysmann CC: Lavoie Philippe , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Can't print either References: <199812011803.NAA21175@yoho.uottawa.ca> <366433B5.206C@coli.uni-sb.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Berthold Crysmann wrote: > Doesn't print here either (HP Laserjet 5 something). Also gs 5.10 does Pretty old version. I suggest to update to gs 5.50 > ****************Unknown operator: endobj50 > ****************Unknown operator: obj Hm. Objects are the building blocks of pdf. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 2 01:48:30 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA09970 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:48:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA12130 for pdftex-list; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:27:32 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA12127 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:27:30 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.61]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4543; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:26:58 +0100 Message-ID: <3664F430.D9147B54@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:02:56 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lavoie Philippe CC: pdftex Subject: Re: Can't print either References: <199812011803.NAA21175@yoho.uottawa.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Lavoie Philippe wrote: > I have this problem too. I can't print when one of the page has a graphic > which was generated from epstopdf. > > http://lowrent.org/nurbs/user.pdf > > It won't print page 6, even if it can be viewed correctly by Acroread. Use ps level 1 mode. Can be due to object reuse (xforms) which level 1 rips cannot handle, level 2 rips sometimes can handle and level 3 ones are supposed to handle. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 2 01:51:24 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA10014 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:51:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA12139 for pdftex-list; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:27:46 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA12135 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:27:44 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.61]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1B60; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:27:13 +0100 Message-ID: <3664F954.56466028@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:24:52 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Prof Brian Ripley CC: osoba@jablotron.cz, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: page size / position References: <199812011655.QAA10800@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Prof Brian Ripley wrote: > > > I fear that in the pdf(tex) environment mag does not make that much > > sense anymore -) > > if only because there are too many positiona/dimensional thing taken > > care of outside the tex engine, i.e. in pdfliterals, images, annotations > > etc. > > OK, but I have a page layout designed for a printed book, and I want > to make the on-line version 20% larger (to fill an A4 page and make > reader's life easier if they want to print it). How do you suggest > this should be done? _I_ think pdftex should have a magnification > parameter in pdftex.cfg and use true sizes for the page size, but that is not > how I am able to do it. Well, your macro package should do that. In context this is done by saying \setuplayout[scale=1.2] A lot of those options that normally are taken care of by the dvi postprocessor must now be taken care of by tex, like page imposition (two up, multiple page per sheet), n*m copies per page, mirroring, negatives, scaling, offsets, cropmarks, color bars etc etc. When I want an A3 booklet, I just let TeX do the job (this is actually independant of pdf). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 2 10:53:17 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA21248 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:53:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA13113 for pdftex-list; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:50:28 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken96.apl.washington.edu [128.95.96.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA13110 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:50:16 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.152]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23972; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:49:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36657110.5A62B9E8@apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 08:55:44 -0800 From: Jody Klymak X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wolfram Liebchen CC: pdfTeX-Liste Subject: Re: Can't print either References: <000301be1dc9$4b879000$0a0a14ac@wrk010.ffo.intra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Wolfram Liebchen wrote: > > From: owner-pdftex@tug.org [mailto:owner-pdftex@tug.org]On Behalf Of > Jiri Osoba > > > > On 1 Dec 98 at 19:21, Berthold Crysmann wrote: > > > > > > > > Doesn't print here either (HP Laserjet 5 something). Also gs 5.10 does > > > not seem to > > > > This was a bug of one old version of pdfTeX. Upgrade please. > > But I use version 0.12r (rather new). The problem was the same with 0.12o-6. > Could it be, that gs5.10 and the Perl-script do a bad job, when they > convert the eps-file into pdf? > Hi Wolfram, I'm not sure why you are having the problem you are having. But the PDF file and source you posted printed fine for me when I compiled them. So the problem is *not* in gs5.10 or the perl-script. You can find the result at: http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/test.pdf Try and print it. If you still have trouble, then I suspect your printer. If it prints fine, then I suspect your pdfTeX. Try getting the *latest* version of everything, including graphics.def. Cheers, Jody -- Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, Doctoral Candidate University of Washington mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu (206)-685-9080 http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 3 00:17:31 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12128 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:17:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id BAA14905 for pdftex-list; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:46:32 -0500 Received: from samba.intra.jablotron.cz (gw.jablotron.cz [194.228.41.250] (may be forged)) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA14902 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:46:30 -0500 Received: from Osoba.intra.jablotron.cz (osoba.intra.jablotron.cz [192.168.250.38]) by samba.intra.jablotron.cz with SMTP id HAA22064 (8.7.6/IDA-1.6); Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:52:27 +0100 Message-ID: <199812030652.HAA22064@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jiri Osoba" Organization: Jablotron Ltd. - Development dpt. To: pdftex@tug.org, thanh@informatics.muni.cz Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:48:13 +0200 Subject: Re: Can't print either Reply-to: Jiri Osoba X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I posted this message few days ago, but I'm afraid - it's dissapeared, so again: On 1 Dec 98 at 19:21, Berthold Crysmann wrote: > Lavoie Philippe wrote: > > Hi, > > I have this problem too. I can't print when one of the page has a graphic > > which was generated from epstopdf. > > http://lowrent.org/nurbs/user.pdf > > It won't print page 6, even if it can be viewed correctly by Acroread. > Doesn't print here either (HP Laserjet 5 something). Also gs 5.10 does > not seem to > like the file: > Processing pages 1 through 11. > Page 1 This was a bug of one old version of pdfTeX. Upgrade please. Jiri. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 3 04:44:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA17342 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 04:44:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA15328 for pdftex-list; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:49:15 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA15325 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:49:12 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-8-1.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.63]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05589; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:48:43 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36666C16.2D16E9EA@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 21:46:46 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jiri Osoba CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: page size / position References: <199812020652.HAA00584@samba.intra.jablotron.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jiri Osoba wrote: > > Jiri Osoba: > > > That's not true - point \hoffset=0,\voffset=0 is horigin and vorigin > > far from upper-left corner of the page. The problem is that this > > point should be (as you can read in The TeXbook) 1in down and 1in > > right from upper-left corner of the paper. This is true if you > > specify horigin=1in and vorigin=1in AND MAG=1000. If you specify any > > mag different from 1000, you will get different "1in" margins. And > > that is the problem, I thing. Horigin and vorigin sould be read > > WITHOUT applying mag. > > Han The Thanh: > > > one can use the "true" convention for \pdfpagewidth, \pdfpageheight in sources > > as well as in pdftex.cfg. It needs to be in the manual, yes. > > Oh - I'm sorry - I'm sorry - I'm sorry - I had this experience from > old pdftex's versions - and I didn't discovered this GREAT change - > thank you, Thanh. > > Jiri. I'm puzzled: I find that pdftex (latest version, as with earlier versions) does NOT respect "true" dimensions in pdftex.cfg. I've got horigin and vorigin set to 1 truein in my pdftex.cfg, but when I set \mag = 1200 in my tex file the horigin and vorigin become 1.2 inches. The page width and height behave the same way. Bob From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 3 07:25:03 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20424 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:25:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA15678 for pdftex-list; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:38:08 -0500 Received: from esemetz.ese-metz.fr (esemetz.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.212]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA15675 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:38:05 -0500 Received: from NEUROMANCER.ese-metz.fr (neuromancer.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.95]) by esemetz.ese-metz.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA21452 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:38:19 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:38:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199812032038.VAA21452@esemetz.ese-metz.fr> From: Fabrice POPINEAU To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: url.sty, hyperref, ... Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm wondering how to do that : \url{./foo.pdf} results in my browser (ie4) trying to open `http://foo.pdf', and \url{file://./foo.pdf} does not seem to do anything when I click on the link (Acrobat Reader 3.01, win32). Any workaround to open another pdf file in the same directory ? Thanks, Fabrice From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 3 08:00:01 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21217 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:00:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15819 for pdftex-list; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:15:23 -0500 Received: from top.coli.uni-sb.de (IDENT:sFH+yB5ljt9keMITuoTdK5eQHq+MtPao@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15816 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:15:20 -0500 Received: from top (crysmann@top [134.96.68.10]) by top.coli.uni-sb.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA02456; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:14:57 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36669CE0.4AE9@coli.uni-sb.de> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 15:14:56 +0100 From: Berthold Crysmann Organization: Graduiertenkolleg Kognitionswissenschaft, Universitaet des Saarlandes X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Fabrice POPINEAU CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: url.sty, hyperref, ... References: <199812032038.VAA21452@esemetz.ese-metz.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Fabrice POPINEAU wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm wondering how to do that : > > \url{./foo.pdf} > results in my browser (ie4) trying to open `http://foo.pdf', > and > > \url{file://./foo.pdf} > > does not seem to do anything when I click on the link (Acrobat Reader > 3.01, win32). > > Any workaround to open another pdf file in the same directory ? > Try specifying a base url: \usepackage[baseurl={file:/bar/}]{hyperref} where foo is located at /bar/foo > Thanks, > > Fabrice -- Berthold Crysmann Universitaet des Saarlandes, Computerlinguistik Geb. 17.2, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken Tel. +49-681-302-4502 / Fax +49-681-302-4700 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 3 08:34:18 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22046 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:34:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA16063 for pdftex-list; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:49:55 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16057 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:49:53 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA28740; hop 0; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:41:30 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:46:18 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 I); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13926.40064.297736.889784@srahtz> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:13:20 +0000 (GMT) To: popineau@ese-metz.fr Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: url.sty, hyperref, ... In-Reply-To: <199812032038.VAA21452@esemetz.ese-metz.fr> References: <199812032038.VAA21452@esemetz.ese-metz.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Fabrice POPINEAU writes: > I'm wondering how to do that : > > \url{./foo.pdf} > \url{file:foo.pdf} i _think_ hyperref has the logic of all this correct now (David Story checked out a lot of horrors earlier this year), but its still confusing Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 3 08:49:14 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22393 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:49:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA16207 for pdftex-list; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:06:42 -0500 Received: from moe.cadabratech.com ([209.89.134.34]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA16203 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:06:40 -0500 Received: from quimby.cadabra.ca by moe.cadabratech.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA07492; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:04:47 -0500 Received: by quimby.cadabra.ca (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA22992; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:04:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:04:24 -0500 From: paulineg@cadabratech.com (Pauline Graf) Message-Id: <199812031504.KAA22992@quimby.cadabra.ca> To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Can't print either Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: +DmmRePO0HlgIeLEgoQz7g== Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I am using pdftex 0.12q and am having trouble printing even though it can be viewed in Acrobat 3.01. Is this an Adobe problem or pdftex? Pauline Graf paulineg@cadabratech.com > > I posted this message few days ago, but I'm afraid - it's > dissapeared, so again: > > On 1 Dec 98 at 19:21, Berthold Crysmann wrote: > > Lavoie Philippe wrote: > > > Hi, > > > I have this problem too. I can't print when one of the page has a graphic > > > which was generated from epstopdf. > > > http://lowrent.org/nurbs/user.pdf > > > It won't print page 6, even if it can be viewed correctly by Acroread. > > Doesn't print here either (HP Laserjet 5 something). Also gs 5.10 does > > not seem to > > like the file: > > Processing pages 1 through 11. > > Page 1 > > This was a bug of one old version of pdfTeX. Upgrade please. > > Jiri. > From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 4 04:40:00 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA19358 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:39:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA17880 for pdftex-list; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:33:24 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA17877 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:33:22 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA21876; hop 0; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:24:54 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:30:33 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13927.45551.810194.22412@srahtz> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:57:03 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org cc: soumen@almaden.ibm.com Subject: Underscore in URL using hyperref In-Reply-To: <199812031816.NAA17120@tug.org> References: <199812031816.NAA17120@tug.org> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk owner-pdftex@tug.org writes: > I cannot write URLs that have underscores in them. > > This is what pdflatex says: > > ! Undefined control sequence. > ...al \let \OT1\textunderscore > \unhbox \voidb@x \kern .06e... > l.10 {\altavista's crawler} > , called the \emph{Scooter}, runs on a 1.... > > My source was: > I would guess this results from a fairly ancient LaTeX, in lieu of any more detailed version information. sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 4 14:16:58 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03586 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:16:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA19006 for pdftex-list; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:35:49 -0500 Received: from bluekeeper.corning.com (corning.com [149.42.1.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA19003 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:35:42 -0500 Received: by bluekeeper.corning.com; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA14055; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:35:32 -0500 Received: from nic2.corning.com (NIC.CORNING.COM) by corning.com (PMDF V5.1-12 #26250) with SMTP id <01J4Y113IU1S00SK5K@corning.com> for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:35:26 EST Received: from nickel.corning.com by nic2.corning.com (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/16Apr97-0854AM) id AA03268; Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:35:14 -0500 Received: from localhost by nickel.corning.com (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/09Sep96-0136PM) id AA12285; Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:35:13 -0500 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:35:13 -0500 (EST) From: Steve Thompson Subject: Compiling pdftex 0.12 on Digital Unix X-Sender: smt@nickel.corning.com To: pdftex@tug.org Reply-To: smt@corning.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Downloaded latest version of pdftex today and tried to build on a DEC Alpha running Digital Unix 4.0D. Results; # pwd /usr/local/src/TEX/web2c-7.2/web2c # make Make: Makefile: Must be a separator on line 167. Stop. # This is using the DU built-in make. Using GNU make produces an equivalent result. Inspection of the makefile indicates that manually fixing this may take some effort. Anyone seen this and/or have a fix? Thanks, -steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steve Thompson Internet: smt@corning.com @ Corning, Inc. Phone: (607) 974 2659 Data Center, Sullivan Park FAX: (607) 974 3964 Painted Post, NY 14870 "186,300 miles per second: it's not just a good idea, it's the law" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 8 08:41:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22455 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:41:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA27804 for pdftex-list; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:42:55 -0500 Received: from unlinfo3.unl.edu (unlinfo3.unl.edu [129.93.1.18]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA27801 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:42:54 -0500 Received: from unlinfo2.unl.edu (unlinfo2.unl.edu [129.93.1.21]) by unlinfo3.unl.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20333 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:30:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from BIOMSDK ([129.93.220.77]) by unlinfo2.unl.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14644 for ; Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:38:21 -0600 (CST) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Document level javascripts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Steve Kachman Date: 08 Dec 1998 08:42:47 -0600 Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk As I understand it document level javascripts need to be defined before the first page. Can this be done using PDFTeX? -- ===================================================================== Steve Kachman Tel: (402) 472-2903 Associate Professor Fax: (402) 472-5179 Department of Biometry mailto:skachman@unl.edu University of Nebraska-Lincoln http://ianrwww.unl.edu/ianr/biometry/faculty/steve/skachman.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- It was my dream to author a book. I just followed my dream and did it. -- Robert From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 9 05:31:46 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA21518 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:31:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA29053 for pdftex-list; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:32:51 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA29050 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:32:49 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.245]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA471C; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:32:33 +0100 Message-ID: <366D5904.401393C3@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 17:51:16 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Kachman CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Document level javascripts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Steve Kachman wrote: > As I understand it document level javascripts need to be defined > before the first page. Can this be done using PDFTeX? Yes, but you need to generate the appropriate data structures (quick and dirty i.e. flat, or as libraries). In ConTeXt javascripts can be defined in the document itself (or loaded >From modules), optionally included when called for, they are accessible to the reference mechanism, sanatized when copied to the pdf file, etc. Some examples of JS support are calculat.pdf and 1998-001.pdf at www.ntg.nl/context (examples.htm and uptodate.htm). For your purpose a maybe more convenient method is to put the scripts on the plug-ins directory, where they are loaded at startup. Beware, the current JS interpreter is rather buggy, non reentrant when an error occurs and has leaks between documents. The tex-pdf-tex-pdf edit debug cycle rather cumbersome. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 9 12:07:57 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01100 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:07:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA29904 for pdftex-list; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:01:45 -0500 Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA29901 for ; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:01:43 -0500 Received: from msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca (msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca [131.104.32.59]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA24962; Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:01:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from MSNET/SpoolDir by msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.40); 9 Dec 98 12:59:05 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by MSNET (Mercury 1.40); 9 Dec 98 12:58:42 -0500 From: "William R. Smith" Organization: Math & Stats, University of Guelph To: pdftex@tug.org Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:58:34 -500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Minus signs don't print - problem solved CC: gknap@uoguelph.ca X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I responded briefly to this earlier post, part of which is appended below. I am also a math prof, and I use PDFTeX to post assignments, etc. for my students - see http://www.mathstat.uoguelph.ca/courses/offerings/math227/ Although a "workaround" involving changing the printer's graphics settings is possible in some cases (see an earlier post of mine from another site), the _ultimate solution_ has now been found. One of my 2nd year Engineering Systems and Computing students (G. Knap) put his finger on it last week. The problem's origins are due to the "letter-size vs A4-size problem", which plagues many North American users. The discovery was that if, on loading the document in Acrobat Reader, it indicates a page size (as displayed in the lower right portion of a tool-bar at the bottom of the Acrobat reader screen) indicates a page size of 8.5 x 11 in, then the document will print with no problems. However, if the page size shows as the A4 size (8.26 x 11.69 in), then the minus signs will NOT print on some printers (the HP LJ family being one type) - this is even tho the minus signs _display_ properly on the screen. The solution then, is to make sure your PDFTeX configuration produces letter-size documents. The ultimate check for this is the page-size indicator when Acrobat loads the document. Your PDFTeX preamble must be set appropriately, and I have found that the following works with my configuration (I use the standard MikTeX installation obtained from CTAN): \documentclass[12pt]{article} \pdfcompresslevel=9 \pdfoutput=1 \usepackage[pdftex]{graphicx} \usepackage[pdftex]{hyperref} \begin{document} You must also change the appropriate page-size option in the dvips configuration file (I think this is also required, but this is the case with my configuration). I have done this by manually editing the DOS file "config.ps" that comes with MikTeX editor (that which I use). I'd appreciate it if the original poster of the question would try this and confirm that it works. From others on the list, can you tell me if there is a way to set the page-size from _within_ the LaTeX source file itself? Or is there a way that Acrobat Exchange can change the page size itself? --------------------------------------------------------------------- >I wrote the list here some time ago because my colleagues >and I in the math department were experiencing the difficulty >that minus signs do not print when a document is sent to the >HP postscript printer. They do show up on the acrobat reader >screen. > >Somebody wrote back that we might be using the wrong fonts, but >we did not do anything special. The problem is serious, because >we obviously cannot use pdftex to post assignments to our web >pages if they cannot be used by students in a completely simple >manner to print the correct information. > >The whole point of using pdftex from our point of view is so >that students would be able to print from our web pages without >using a postscript viewer, which most of the students don't >have access to. But if it can not handle the printing of the >most simple things, it does not meet the needs of the mathematics >community. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 03:41:34 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22169 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:41:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA30787 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:50:51 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA30784 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:50:47 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-10-61.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.247]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA04573 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:50:39 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:49:00 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Ignoring pdftex primitives Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I've been contemplating the question of writing some macros which when input would enable standard TeX to cope with a pdftex tex file, gracefully ignoring the extra primitives that pdftex has. (e.g. declaring \pdfpageheight to be a \newdimen, etc.) Most pdftex primitives are easy enough to deal with, but \pdfimage requires a bit of work. If the correct syntax were along the lines of \pdfimage height 3 cm {imagefile.png} rather than \pdfimage height 3 cm imagefile.png things would be a whole lot easier. (I wouldn't lose any sleep worrying about people who use file names that include unmatched braces -- they don't deserve to be catered for. But people whose file names include spaces maybe should be catered for.) Incidentally, with the syntax as it is, I notice that I can't include an image file with a name like depthcharge.png. I guess pdftex syntax is by now too settled for it to be changed, is it? If not, is there any support out there for changing the syntax? Bob Howlett From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 04:56:19 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA23487 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:56:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA31035 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:11:00 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA31031 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:10:49 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id LAA19662; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:08:44 GMT Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:08:44 GMT Message-Id: <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> (message from Robert Howlett on Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:49:00 +1100) Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > \pdfimage height 3 cm imagefile.png I can't say I like the syntax either, but it is probably the `TeX way'. It is just that Knuth's decision to give TeX primitives a syntax that is totally alien to the TeX macro syntax was simply wrong:-) In practice I am not sure it would help much in this case. Even if the syntax were slightly more helpful you would probably never be able to totally fake a non expandable primitive with a macro. In this case probably you should just use some macro and document that it be used for both tex and pdftex. For latex this would just be \includegraphics{imagefile} (being a macro it can do other checks, like deciding which extension to use depending on what tex version and drivers are specified) Context no doubt has similar image inclusion macros which again give a consistent interface. For plain tex you could either provide just a basic wrapper around \special and \pdfimage, or you could use the latex interface (which does work with plain tex). > Incidentally, with the syntax as it is, I notice that I can't > include an image file with a name like depthcharge.png. If you know there is no depth you can always use depth 0pt, can't you? so that \pdfimage has seen a depth and doesn't look for another. (not tried) David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 07:27:18 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26296 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:27:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA31514 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:28:20 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA31511 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:28:17 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-8-57.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.119]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA11250; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:27:17 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <366FCBD5.F449696B@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:25:41 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Carlisle , pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote: > > > \pdfimage height 3 cm imagefile.png > > I can't say I like the syntax either, but it is probably the `TeX way'. > It is just that Knuth's decision to give TeX primitives a syntax that > is totally alien to the TeX macro syntax was simply wrong:-) > > In practice I am not sure it would help much in this case. Even if the > syntax were slightly more helpful you would probably never be able to > totally fake a non expandable primitive with a macro. In this case > probably you should just use some macro and document that it be used for > both tex and pdftex. For latex this would just be > > \includegraphics{imagefile} > > (being a macro it can do other checks, like deciding which extension to > use depending on what tex version and drivers are specified) > Context no doubt has similar image inclusion macros which again give a > consistent interface. For plain tex you could either provide just a > basic wrapper around \special and \pdfimage, or you could use the > latex interface (which does work with plain tex). > > > Incidentally, with the syntax as it is, I notice that I can't > > include an image file with a name like depthcharge.png. > > If you know there is no depth you can always use depth 0pt, can't you? > so that \pdfimage has seen a depth and doesn't look for another. (not > tried) > No, things like \pdfimage height 3 cm height 2 cm depth 1cm height 5cm picture.png are perfectly valid (as with \hrule and \vrule in ordinary TeX), the later ones overriding the earlier ones. Bob From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 07:32:22 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26393 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:32:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA31509 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:27:53 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA31506 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:27:35 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:26:57 +0100 Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J56CBVNX0W007W77@wkap.nl>; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:25:03 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:25:20 +0100 (CET) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-reply-to: <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> To: David Carlisle Cc: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > Incidentally, with the syntax as it is, I notice that I can't > > include an image file with a name like depthcharge.png. > > If you know there is no depth you can always use depth 0pt, can't you? > so that \pdfimage has seen a depth and doesn't look for another. (not > tried) Unfortunately, the original author is right. And it's in TeX itself too, but there the parser does not have to look ahead for the image name, so it is less annoying. Try: This nice block: \vrule width 3pt height 3pt depth 0pt heightened my TeX appreciation Here you can insert \relax, but that won't work for pdftex since then it will believe the image file is "" (\relax). The only way out is to split the two primitives into \pdfimagesize and \pdfimage, like so: \pdfimagesize height 34pt \pdfimage heightened.png Which is also ugly, but a bit more in line with the rest of TeX. Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 07:37:17 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26466 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA31574 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:34:46 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA31568 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:34:38 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id NAA19530; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:33:25 GMT Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:33:25 GMT Message-Id: <199812101333.NAA19530@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <366FCBD5.F449696B@mail.usyd.edu.au> (message from Robert Howlett on Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:25:41 +1100) Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <366FCBD5.F449696B@mail.usyd.edu.au> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > No Sorry. I was wrong. Happens quite often:-) > (as with \hrule and \vrule in ordinary TeX), but not repeated plus and minus in skips. Strange language, tex, isn't it. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 08:53:11 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28231 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:53:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA31947 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:52:21 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA31944 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:52:19 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.71]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA958; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:51:42 +0100 Message-ID: <366FC8A3.8031DD65@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:12:03 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Howlett CC: pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Robert Howlett wrote: > Incidentally, with the syntax as it is, I notice that I can't > include an image file with a name like depthcharge.png. This is a general tex problem, take rules. > I guess pdftex syntax is by now too settled for it to be changed, is it? > If not, is there any support out there for changing the syntax? The current syntax suits the \input one, no beauty either but we've learned to live with that. In most cases \pdfimage will be wrapped up anyway. Maybe the next hack suits your purpose and it saves Thanh some programming -) \let\normalpdfimage\pdfimage \def\pdfimage% {\ifcase\pdfoutput \expandafter\nopdfimage \else \expandafter\dopdfimage \fi} \def\dopdfimage#1#{\dodopdfimage{#1}} \def\nopdfimage#1#{\donopdfimage{#1}} \def\dodopdfimage#1#2% {\normalpdfimage#1#2\relax} \def\donopdfimage#1#2% {\ifhmode\vrule\else\hrule\fi height 1cm width 1cm depth 0cm #1\relax} \pdfimage width 2cm {./logo-con.png} It also shows why your pdfimage substitute would be no real substitute: \pdfimage returns a box with the natural dimensions of the graphic. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 08:55:53 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28314 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:55:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA31941 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:51:54 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA31938 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:51:51 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.71]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5010; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:51:39 +0100 Message-ID: <366FC266.8AFE8009@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:45:26 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "William R. Smith" CC: pdftex@tug.org, gknap@uoguelph.ca Subject: Re: Minus signs don't print - problem solved References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk William R. Smith wrote: > >The whole point of using pdftex from our point of view is so > >that students would be able to print from our web pages without > >using a postscript viewer, which most of the students don't > >have access to. But if it can not handle the printing of the > >most simple things, it does not meet the needs of the mathematics > >community. A quote on paper size from the pdftex manual (next version, to be release as soon as sebastian approves of the english): \subsection[cfg]{The \PDFTEX\ configuration file} One has to keep in mind that, opposite to \DVI\ output, there is no postprocessing stage. This has several rather fundamental consequences, like one||pass graphic and font inclusion. When \TEX\ builds a page, the macro package used quite certain has a concept of page dimensions, which is not the same as paper dimensions. The reference point of the page is the top||left corner. Most \DVI\ postprocessors enable the user to specify the papersize, which often defaults to ``A4'' or ``letter''. In most cases it does not harm that much to mix the two, because one will seldom put too small paper in the printer. And, if one does, one certainly not does do it a second time. In \PDF\ the paper size is part of the definition. This means that everything that is off page, is clipped off, it simply disappears. Even worse, just like in a \POSTSCRIPT\ file, the reference point is in the lower corner, which is opposite to \DVI's reference point. And so, we've found one of the main reasons why \PDFTEX\ explictly needs to know the paper dimensions. These dimensions can either be passed using the so called configuration file, or by using the primitives provided for this purpose. In this respect, the \PDFTEX\ configuration file can be compared to configuration files that come with \DVI\ postprocessors and|/|or command line options. Both contain information on the paper used, the fonts to be included and optimizations to be applied. etc etc Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 09:44:02 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29518 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:43:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA32420 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:55:13 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA32416 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:55:07 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:54:46 +0100 Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J56HIH7OG0008RH2@wkap.nl>; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:53:56 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:54:15 +0100 (CET) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-reply-to: <199812101333.NAA19530@nag.co.uk> To: David Carlisle Cc: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13935.64695.70510.322835@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <366FCBD5.F449696B@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101333.NAA19530@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote: > > > No > Sorry. I was wrong. Happens quite often:-) > > > (as with \hrule and \vrule in ordinary TeX), > > but not repeated plus and minus in skips. Strange language, tex, isn't it. Yep, it's beautiful. How about: a\hskip 1pt plus 1fil l l later date \bye (I actually got bit by this one once: A macro ended in "1fil " and produced wrong output if followed by a word starting with "l"). Duh. Bye, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 10:21:12 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00459 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:21:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA32735 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:20:42 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA32732 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:20:40 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:20:27 +0100 Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J56IG8CHKG008QW9@wkap.nl>; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:20:22 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:20:40 +0100 (CET) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-reply-to: <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> To: David Carlisle Cc: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.3 "Vatican City" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote: It's so much fun ;-) For the original author: \pdfimage depth 15pt \noex..... etc also works, but \pdfimage depth 15pt\noex.... doesn't, because the scanner eats one of the \noexpands when trying to find the space after "pt" \pdfimage depth 15pt\relax\noex.... does not work because once again this sets the filename to "", and \pdfimage depth 15pt\noexpand\noex... is also OK. For David: you need three \noexpands because TeX is looking for three keywords in a loop that does not end until all three keyword searches return "false". You won't need more \noexpands until TeX can do typesetting in 3-d or colored rules, I guess. But for other images you need less: "widthcharge.png" needs only 1 \noexpand, "heightcharge.png" needs 2 (but more \noexpands don't do any harm). "./heightcharge.png" needs none, of course, but that's not portable across filesystems. Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 10:36:44 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00861 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:36:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00268 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:52:15 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00263 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:52:05 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id QAA21782; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:49:33 GMT Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:49:33 GMT Message-Id: <199812101649.QAA21782@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl CC: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> (message from Taco Hoekwater on Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:20:40 +0100 (CET)) Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > For David: > you need three \noexpands because TeX is looking for three keywords ah of course, yes. tex is only expanding looking for the first non acceptable token, so the number of \noexpands goes up one at a time rather than going up in powers of 2, as typically needed in an edef. so I should change pdftex.def to always add space and three \noexpands and an \@empty between the size spec and the file name, so that \includegraphics[xxx=yyy]{depthcharge} will work. It might even get in the release planned for 1998/12/01... David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 10 10:49:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01204 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 10:49:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA00292 for pdftex-list; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:54:04 -0500 Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA00289 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:54:01 -0500 Received: from msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca (msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca [131.104.32.59]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA06424 for ; Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:54:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from MSNET/SpoolDir by msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.40); 10 Dec 98 11:51:26 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by MSNET (Mercury 1.40); 10 Dec 98 11:51:26 -0500 From: "William R. Smith" Organization: Math & Stats, University of Guelph To: pdftex@tug.org Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:51:16 -500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Minus signs don't print - problem solved In-reply-to: <366FC266.8AFE8009@wxs.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > William R. Smith wrote: [snip] > A quote on paper size from the pdftex manual (next version, to be > release as soon as sebastian approves of the english): > > \subsection[cfg]{The \PDFTEX\ configuration file} > > One has to keep in mind that, opposite to \DVI\ output, there is no > postprocessing stage. This has several rather fundamental > consequences, like one||pass graphic and font inclusion. When \TEX\ > builds a page, the macro package used quite certain has a concept of > page dimensions, which is not the same as paper dimensions. The > reference point of the page is the top||left corner. > > Most \DVI\ postprocessors enable the user to specify the papersize, > which often defaults to ``A4'' or ``letter''. In most cases it does > not harm that much to mix the two, because one will seldom put too > small paper in the printer. And, if one does, one certainly not does > do it a second time. In \PDF\ the paper size is part of the > definition. This means that everything that is off page, is clipped > off, it simply disappears. Even worse, just like in a \POSTSCRIPT\ > file, the reference point is in the lower corner, which is opposite > to \DVI's reference point. It's a much more important issue than just putting the right sized paper in the printer. The thread on the "minus signs problem" was based on the fact that minus signs "disappeared" in the printed version (on some, but not all, printers) of a .pdf file that displayed correctly on the screen. This caused considerable and fundamental problems for us here, and for the original poster. >From the original poster's comments, it seemed obvious that he/she would be telling the entire mathematics community to "forget about PDFTeX for mathematics". And we certainly don't want that, do we? :-) Maybe it would help if a sentence were added to the manual as follows: (after the following) > In most cases it does not harm that much to mix the two, because one > will seldom put too small paper in the printer. And, if one does, one > certainly not does do it a second time. In other cases, however (such as for mathematical documents), setting the page-size correctly (letter or A4) is absolutely crucial; for example, even tho documents display correctly on the computer, they may not print correctly. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 04:03:06 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA17403 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:03:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA01647 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:54:31 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA01644 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:54:29 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id JAA29688; hop 0; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:46:00 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:54:11 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:24:30 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives (Re: BOUNCE pdftex@tug.org: Non-member submission from [Michael John Downes ]) In-Reply-To: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> References: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk From: Michael John Downes > No, things like > \pdfimage height 3 cm height 2 cm depth 1cm height 5cm picture.png > are perfectly valid (as with \hrule and \vrule in ordinary TeX), > the later ones overriding the earlier ones. Following the hrule/vrule syntax is probably not a good idea in the first place and when a file name follows I think that this is definitely a design mistake, as Howlett's example demonstrates. The two most likely alternatives (while still remaining close to TeX) would be \pdfimage filename ... (repeatable) I.e., put the file name first and require it to be terminated by a space. Then the whole construct is syntactically similar to \vrule and \font in the handling of trailing tokens (still not exactly a good idea ...) Or: \pdfimage ... from filename I.e., introduce a new mandatory keyword "from". Compare to the mandatory "to" in \read\x to\y. Space must be accepted as a filename terminator if you want to follow the example of \input. Better, however, would be to devise a different filename syntax for all filename handling and leave \input etc as deprecated but still working alternatives. I.e., make some new file handling primitives: 1. \interject{File Name} Same as \input, but argument is enclosed in braces. This allows file names to include spaces. The main trouble here is deciding on the command name. [... goes off to consult a dictionary ...] \interleave, \interject, \incorporate, \interpolate, \intercalate, \digress. Inject, interject, or intercalate are semantically the best matches for what TeX actually does when inputting a file. Intercalate is rarely heard outside of academic contexts. The primary meaning for inject in common usage is the medical meaning. So I would probably choose "interject". 2. \openfile read 5{File Name} \openfile write 8{File Name} These are replacements for \openout and \openin with syntax similar to \hbox to 5pt{...} or \write 16{...}. Naming: Maybe \fileopen instead of \openfile. Maybe keywords "in" "out" instead of read/write. 3. \fontdef\foo{cmr10} \fontdef\bar at 24pt{cmr17} \fontdef\baj scaled 1200{cmbxti10} Like \font but allows spaces in font file names. Then probably, as was already suggested: 4. \pdfimage height 3cm {File Name} with height/depth/width specs going before the open brace. Speaking as a TeX macro writer with many years of experience, having 1-3 above would have saved me many puzzling moments and a lot of extra work over the years to save users from unnecessary or unapropos error messages. Note that it is still possible to use unmatched { } characters in a file name as long as you make sure they don't have catcode 1 or 2. For example: \interject{Foo\string{bar} (File names must be processed with full expansion, like \special or \edef; so this is similar to \edef\foo{Foo\string{bar} (a valid TeX 3.x assignment).) Michael Downes From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 04:52:54 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18247 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:52:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA01728 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:31:48 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA01725 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 05:31:44 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:31:26 +0100 Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J57KJWLWW000935Z@wkap.nl>; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:31:23 +0100 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:31:40 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-reply-to: <3670E53A.1C9D3E0@wxs.nl> To: Hans Hagen Cc: David Carlisle , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13937.668.262587.423674@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> <3670E53A.1C9D3E0@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen wrote: > Taco Hoekwater wrote: > > > you need three \noexpands because TeX is looking for three keywords in > > a loop that does not end until all three keyword searches return > > "false". You won't need more \noexpands until TeX can do typesetting > > in 3-d or colored rules, I guess. But for other images you need less: > > > > "widthcharge.png" needs only 1 \noexpand, "heightcharge.png" needs 2 > > (but more \noexpands don't do any harm). "./heightcharge.png" needs > > none, of course, but that's not portable across filesystems. > > Hm, but how come then that one can give 10 depth specs in a row? So how > about? > > \pdfimage width 1cm height 1cm width 1cm width 3cm depthfile.png TeX uses the following logic: reswitch: if "width" then else if "height" then else if "depth" then else ; As you can see, you need three failures before this loop is broken, but only one success to restart. What the \noexpands do: each of them makes one of the tests fail. "widthcharge" needs only one \noexpand, for the first test ("width"), since the other two will fail themselves. "heightcharge" needs two \noexpands. The first of those makes the test for "width" fail, the second the test for "height". "depthcharge" needs three \noexpands (using the same logic). For the latter two, if the spec was \pdfimage width 0pt \noexpand\empty heightcharge.png you would be in the error case, because the succesful "width" goes back into the loop, using the \noexpand in the second pass. (Knuth is very good at making pascal behave like assembly :-). Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 07:09:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA20773 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:09:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA02258 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:49:50 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA02255 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:49:48 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:49:04 +0100 Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J57PC1N5TS0065YB@wkap.nl>; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:48:36 +0100 Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:48:54 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives (Re: BOUNCE Michael John Downes) In-reply-to: <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> To: pdftex@tug.org, mjd@ams.org Message-id: <13937.8902.487464.912055@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz wrote: (this was Michael talking, yes?) > Space must be accepted as a filename terminator if you want to follow > the example of \input. Better, however, would be to devise a different > filename syntax for all filename handling and leave \input etc as > deprecated but still working alternatives. I.e., make some new file > handling primitives: > Another approach that closely mimicks what typical operating system shells do is to allow the argument to be quoted, as in \input "My Document" I don't have much sympathy for people that use spaces (or quotes, for that matter) in filenames, but everything is better than the annoying tilde construction M$ uses: \input MYDOCU~1 Try passing that as an argument to a macro... In any case: please, please, please don't invent more "basic keywords". There are way too many of those already. > 1. \interject{File Name} I like the idea, but not the name. What about \source{file name} % shell \require{file name} % perl/emacs \include{file name} % cpp, but problematic for latex I guess > 2. \openfile read 5{File Name} > \openfile write 8{File Name} > > These are replacements for \openout and \openin with syntax similar to > \hbox to 5pt{...} or \write 16{...}. Naming: Maybe \fileopen instead > of \openfile. Maybe keywords "in" "out" instead of read/write. Maybe no keywords and two primitives? > 4. \pdfimage height 3cm {File Name} > > with height/depth/width specs going before the open brace. This is good too. Greetings, Taco -- Taco Hoekwater taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl Kluwer Academic Publishers -- Pre Press -- Achterom 119, 3311 KB Dordrecht, The Netherlands tel. 31-78-6392550 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 07:31:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21356 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:31:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA02442 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:33:25 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02439 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:33:22 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-4-29.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.56.91]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA19667; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:33:05 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36711336.E1C88E75@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:42:30 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hans Hagen CC: pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <366FC8A3.8031DD65@wxs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen wrote: > > Robert Howlett wrote: > > > Incidentally, with the syntax as it is, I notice that I can't > > include an image file with a name like depthcharge.png. > > This is a general tex problem, take rules. > > > I guess pdftex syntax is by now too settled for it to be changed, is it? > > If not, is there any support out there for changing the syntax? > > The current syntax suits the \input one, no beauty either but we've > learned to live with that. In most cases \pdfimage will be wrapped up > anyway. > > Maybe the next hack suits your purpose and it saves Thanh some > programming -) > > \let\normalpdfimage\pdfimage > > \def\pdfimage% > {\ifcase\pdfoutput > \expandafter\nopdfimage > \else > \expandafter\dopdfimage > \fi} > > \def\dopdfimage#1#{\dodopdfimage{#1}} > \def\nopdfimage#1#{\donopdfimage{#1}} > > \def\dodopdfimage#1#2% > {\normalpdfimage#1#2\relax} > > \def\donopdfimage#1#2% > {\ifhmode\vrule\else\hrule\fi height 1cm width 1cm depth 0cm #1\relax} > > \pdfimage width 2cm {./logo-con.png} > > It also shows why your pdfimage substitute would be no real substitute: > \pdfimage returns a box with the natural dimensions of the graphic. > > Hans > This approach implicitly concedes that \pdfimage width 2cm {./logo-con.png} is a more convenient syntax than \pdfimage width 2cm ./logo-con.png I was imagining a situation where a person who doesn't have access to pdftex and has never heard of it comes to me and says "I've got this tex file from Prof. Bloggs, but when I run it I get the message undefined control sequence \pdfimage. What can I do?" I would answer "Take this macro file nopdf.tex and add \input nopdf to the start of Bloggs' file. It won't be perfect but not too bad" and with any luck the person will be happy or at least won't come back. I have actually half-written such macros, where "half" means that I've done \pdfimage but haven't tried \pdfdest yet. But it was really just for fun, I don't expect to have any serious need for it. Bob From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 07:33:31 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21392 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:33:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA02448 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:33:42 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02444 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:33:39 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-4-29.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.56.91]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA19437; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:32:59 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36710B39.FD645CDE@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 23:08:25 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater , pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > > David Carlisle wrote: > > It's so much fun ;-) > For the original author: > > \pdfimage depth 15pt \noex..... etc > > also works, but > > \pdfimage depth 15pt\noex.... > > doesn't, because the scanner eats one of the \noexpands when trying to > find the space after "pt" > > \pdfimage depth 15pt\relax\noex.... > > does not work because once again this sets the filename to "", and > > \pdfimage depth 15pt\noexpand\noex... > > is also OK. > > For David: > > you need three \noexpands because TeX is looking for three keywords in > a loop that does not end until all three keyword searches return > "false". You won't need more \noexpands until TeX can do typesetting > in 3-d or colored rules, I guess. But for other images you need less: > > "widthcharge.png" needs only 1 \noexpand, "heightcharge.png" needs 2 > (but more \noexpands don't do any harm). \pdfimage \noexpand\noexpand\noexpand\noexpand\empty anything.png is no good, presumably since after three times through its loop TeX has decided there is no width height or depth, and it expects the next thing to be the file name. I've checked that ordinary TeX complains when it encounters abc \vrule \noexpand\empty height xyz but not when it encounters abc \vrule \noexpand\empty width xyz Surely this can only be interpreted as a bug in TeX! Bob From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 07:44:46 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21615 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:44:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA02664 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:54:58 -0500 Received: from cellar.rz.uni-ulm.de (cellar.rz.uni-ulm.de [134.60.240.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02660 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:54:56 -0500 Received: by cellar.rz.uni-ulm.de with Smail id m0zoT1z-000DMCC; Fri, 11 Dec 98 14:54 MET Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:54:55 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: s_sthiam@cellar.rz.uni-ulm.de To: mailinglist Subject: bounding box error ! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Serge-Eric Thiam Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I'm trying to insert graphics in a tex doc using pdflatex. I converted all the image.eps files with the perl script "epstopdf" into image.pdf but pdflatex complainted not to be able to include the .pdf images. Then I used the perl script "texutil" from the pdfTex-FAQ to create a bounding box around the .eps images before converting them into .pdf with "epstopdf", but pdflatex still didn't include them in the document, bringing up the same error message "No bounding box aroung image.pdf - not included !" What am I doing wrong? Can someone help me? Thanks alot in advance ---== Serge Eric Thiam, Gutenberg Str. 6 / C303, D-89073 Ulm, Germany ==--- Tel.: +49-(0)731-9213410, http://www.uni-ulm.de/~s_sthiam From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 07:45:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21628 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:45:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA02485 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:35:39 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02482 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:35:37 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.145]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA60C; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:35:29 +0100 Message-ID: <36711E8E.19444F6@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:30:54 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Rahtz CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives (Re: BOUNCE pdftex@tug.org: Non-member submission from [Michael John Downes ]) References: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz forwarded: > \pdfimage ... from filename That one is better because it's more in tune with the annot specs (they also take a width/height/depth. > 1. \interject{File Name} > > Same as \input, but argument is enclosed in braces. This allows file > names to include spaces. The main trouble here is deciding on the > command name. [... goes off to consult a dictionary ...] > \interleave, \interject, \incorporate, \interpolate, \intercalate, > \digress. As non native I would come up with: \include \includefile > Like \font but allows spaces in font file names. Great, the bigger the mess, the happier we are. > 1-3 above would have saved me many puzzling moments and a lot of extra > work over the years to save users from unnecessary or unapropos error > messages. Well, I admit that it can be annoying, but once wrapped in macros, those primitives are not that bad. I can come up with more problematic ones -) > Note that it is still possible to use unmatched { } characters in a > file name as long as you make sure they don't have catcode 1 or 2. For > example: > > \interject{Foo\string{bar} Well, that { will certainly fail when burried deep inside a macro, which is often the case. I don't like the interject. It does not ring a bell on files. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 08:05:37 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22042 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:05:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA02924 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:30:17 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02921 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:30:15 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id OAA22364; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:27:41 GMT Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:27:41 GMT Message-Id: <199812111427.OAA22364@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl CC: pdftex@tug.org, mjd@ams.org In-reply-to: <13937.8902.487464.912055@localhost> (message from Taco Hoekwater on Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:48:54 +0000 (/etc/localtime)) Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives (Re: BOUNCE Michael John Downes) References: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> <13937.8902.487464.912055@localhost> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > \include{file name} % cpp, but problematic for latex I guess not really a problem as the pdftex support for latex would presumably just \let\input\include and then define \include as now. That is, it doesn't really matter what you call this as it's real name is \WhatInputShouldHaveBeen and so any format is likely to save the old \input for use in dire emergencies, and then use this new function with the name \input. So its original name only matters during format making. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 08:12:55 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22227 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:12:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA03014 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:36:13 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03011 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:36:12 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA11741; hop 0; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:27:43 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:35:47 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz Message-ID: <13937.9170.504642.187446@srahtz> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:53:22 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au Cc: pragma@wxs.nl, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <36711336.E1C88E75@mail.usyd.edu.au> References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <366FC8A3.8031DD65@wxs.nl> <36711336.E1C88E75@mail.usyd.edu.au> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Robert Howlett writes: > I was imagining a situation where a person who doesn't have > access to pdftex and has never heard of it comes to me and > says "I've got this tex file from Prof. Bloggs, but when I > run it I get the message > undefined control sequence \pdfimage. > What can I do?" I would answer "send it back to Prof. Bloggs and tell her not to be so silly" :-} sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 08:13:42 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22253 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:13:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA03028 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:37:00 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03024 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:36:58 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA11779; hop 0; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:28:27 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:36:36 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13937.10896.105230.291341@srahtz> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:22:08 +0000 (GMT) To: Serge-Eric.Thiam@student.uni-ulm.de Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: bounding box error ! In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Serge-Eric Thiam writes: > the .eps images before converting them into .pdf with "epstopdf", > but pdflatex still didn't include them in the document, bringing up > the same error message "No bounding box aroung image.pdf - not > included !" using either an old pdftex, or an old version of pdftex.def, almost certainly. check the version of both. I have This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12r (Web2C 7.2) and \ProvidesFile{pdftex.def}[1998/09/29 v0.02j graphics/color for pdftex] and do not recommend anything lesser sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 10:39:40 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25900 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:39:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA04205 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:53:30 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04201 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:53:28 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.163]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1F99; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:52:56 +0100 Message-ID: <3671478D.CB6866A0@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:25:49 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater CC: pdftex@tug.org, mjd@ams.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives (Re: BOUNCE Michael John Downes) References: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> <13937.8902.487464.912055@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > \include{file name} % cpp, but problematic for latex I guess Probably less that \protected, \unexpanded and some more in context. I already have those -). > > 4. \pdfimage height 3cm {File Name} > > > > with height/depth/width specs going before the open brace. > > This is good too. What exactly is {File Name} in terms of internal tex scanning? A token list? (Certainly no box content) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 10:48:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26090 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:48:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA04204 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:53:29 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04198 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:53:27 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.163]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA1F87; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:52:54 +0100 Message-ID: <367146D8.303B2089@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:22:48 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Rahtz CC: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <366FC8A3.8031DD65@wxs.nl> <36711336.E1C88E75@mail.usyd.edu.au> <13937.9170.504642.187446@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > Robert Howlett writes: > > I was imagining a situation where a person who doesn't have > > access to pdftex and has never heard of it comes to me and > > says "I've got this tex file from Prof. Bloggs, but when I > > run it I get the message > > undefined control sequence \pdfimage. > > What can I do?" > > I would answer "send it back to Prof. Bloggs and tell her not to be so > silly" :-} Well, in due time all tex will be pdfetex, I guess, \def\pdfimage#1.#2#3#4% {{\tt[Wanna see this #2#3#4 figure? Just install pdftex]}} Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 10:49:59 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26153 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:49:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA04197 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:53:07 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA04194 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:53:05 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.163]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA7DF; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:52:58 +0100 Message-ID: <3671482A.7052D66@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:28:26 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Howlett CC: pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <366FC8A3.8031DD65@wxs.nl> <36711336.E1C88E75@mail.usyd.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Robert Howlett wrote: > This approach implicitly concedes that > > \pdfimage width 2cm {./logo-con.png} > > is a more convenient syntax than > > \pdfimage width 2cm ./logo-con.png I foresee indeed the {} solution, if only because it fits in the other pdftex prmitives that also have { } > that I've done \pdfimage but haven't tried \pdfdest yet. Well, there you need some keyword scanning I suppose. It certainly can be done I think. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 13:33:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00410 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 13:33:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA04993 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:00:24 -0500 Received: from smtp.uncc.edu (smtp.uncc.edu [152.15.44.114]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA04990 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:00:23 -0500 Received: from email.uncc.edu by smtp.uncc.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.0.1457.7) id YVV3PXML; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:00:22 -0500 Received: by email.uncc.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:00:19 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Royster, David" To: "'pdftex@tug.org'" Subject: deflate() Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:00:16 -0500 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I am new to the list and this may have been discussed previously. OS: Windows 95 on a P6-300. I am running MikTeX 1.11 Beta 3 with pdftex 0.12r. In processing a file that processed fine with pdftex 0.12h, I continue to receive the following message: Error: pdftex: deflate( ) failed C:\texmf\miktex\bin\pdftex.exe: No error and the processing stops; abruptly; no output. I have commented out lines and can get the file to process, but the procedure is NOT deterministic. The next time I run pdflatex, I can uncomment some of these lines and the file will process. The following time I must comment out different lines. Is this a pdftex problem, or an implementation problem? I do not have another system yet set up on which I could try to process the file. The .aux file is added below and there is not much there. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! dcroyster \relax \ifx\hyper@anchor\@undefined \global \let \oldcontentsline\contentsline \gdef \contentsline#1#2#3#4{\oldcontentsline{#1}{#2}{#3}} \global \let \oldnewlabel\newlabel \gdef \newlabel#1#2{\newlabelxx{#1}#2} \gdef \newlabelxx#1#2#3#4#5#6{\oldnewlabel{#1}{{#2}{#3}}} \AtEndDocument{\let \contentsline\oldcontentsline \let \newlabel\oldnewlabel} \else \global \let \hyper@last\relax \fi \@input{dgchpt01sec01.aux} \@input{dgchpt01sec02.aux} \@input{dgchpt01sec02a.aux} \@input{dgchpt01sec03.aux} \@input{dgchpt01sec04.aux} \@input{dgchpt01sec05.aux} \@input{dgchpt02pdf.aux} \@input{dgchpt03sec01.aux} \@input{dgchpt03sec01a.aux} \@input{dgchpt03sec02.aux} \relax \@writefile{toc}{\contentsline {section}{\numberline {3.2}The Tangent Plane}{25}{section.3.2}} David C. Royster droyster@math.uncc.edu Department of Mathematics http://www.math.uncc.edu/~droyster UNC Charlotte (704) 547-2649 Charlotte, NC 28223 FAX: (704) 510-6415 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 11 15:44:00 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA03709 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:43:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA05357 for pdftex-list; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:16:21 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA05354 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:16:19 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.21]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA30BB; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:54:04 +0100 Message-ID: <366FE1D6.C6A5E736@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:59:34 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Carlisle CC: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote: > If you know there is no depth you can always use depth 0pt, can't you? > so that \pdfimage has seen a depth and doesn't look for another. (not > tried) I suppose pdftex uses the rule spec scanner, and thereby accepts multiple height/depth/width specs (which in itself is handy). Hans Well, just tested this in pdfimage. Multiple depth are valid. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Dec 12 02:08:45 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA15985 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:08:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA05921 for pdftex-list; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:48:06 -0500 Received: from donald.cybercomm.nl (donald.cybercomm.nl [194.235.113.5]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA05918 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:48:04 -0500 Received: from PC709 (poort54-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl [194.235.118.54]) by donald.cybercomm.nl (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA23163; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:50:50 -0100 (MET) From: Taco Hoekwater Message-ID: <13938.11720.910000.690961@PC709> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:48:08 +0100 (W. Europe Standard Time) To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex@tug.org, mjd@ams.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives (Re: BOUNCE Michael John Downes) In-Reply-To: <3671478D.CB6866A0@wxs.nl> References: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> <13937.8902.487464.912055@localhost> <3671478D.CB6866A0@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "HH" == Hans Hagen writes: HH> What exactly is {File Name} in terms of internal tex scanning? A HH> token list? (Certainly no box content) file names are really strings. If they are read from a token list, the list is printed to the pool first. The name is ended by cat10, so if you can find a way to get space cat12 in the string, spaces in filenames are legal. If we have some sort of agreement on \include{}, we should post that to the tex-group, I think. Greetings, Taco -- Taco Hoekwater taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl Kluwer Academic Publishers -- Pre Press -- Achterom 119, 3311 KB Dordrecht, The Netherlands tel. 31-78-6392550 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Dec 12 04:18:35 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18294 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 04:18:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA06195 for pdftex-list; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 05:49:19 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA06192 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 05:49:17 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:49:01 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA24304; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:48:56 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:48:56 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: David Carlisle , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <366FE1D6.C6A5E736@wxs.nl> References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <366FE1D6.C6A5E736@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13938.18436.570428.29484@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen wrote -- > > Well, just tested this in pdfimage. Multiple depth are valid. But it is not clear how this can be utilised if the filename comes last. The other suggested syntax may make this a useful feature: \pdfimage One could even imagine these values behaving in other ways like those of rules. However, I would favour investigation of getting a better syntax/scanning for all file-name-like strings in eTeX. However, The Mysterious Oligarchy (or more likely He, their Great Silent Democratic Leader) may not approve of even thinking such thoughts. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Dec 12 04:31:24 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA18485 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 04:31:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA06243 for pdftex-list; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:01:39 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA06240 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:01:37 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:01:28 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA24314; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:01:23 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:01:23 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: David Carlisle , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org, S.Rahtz@elsevier.co.uk Subject: pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <366FE1D6.C6A5E736@wxs.nl> References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <366FE1D6.C6A5E736@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13938.18980.468630.567007@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk This discussion of \pdfimage highlights why I asked for a fuller written description of the intended semantics of the pdftex primitives. I have several questions similar to the one about whether multiple depths are supported; not all of these are about scanning so cannot so easily be probed empirically. Although I can get people to attempt to test these empirically, or to look at the change file so as to work out what may be happening, this is very inefficient; moreover, it only helps to establish the actual semantics this week. It is no help in trying to evaluate whether the code actually does what Thanh or anyone else intended it to do; and it is little help in evaluating whether the high-level design spec was optimal in the first place. So please, please, please can we have something to read along these lines, before the merger with etex. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Dec 12 05:59:15 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA19891 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 05:59:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA06606 for pdftex-list; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:32:39 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA06603 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:32:37 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.121]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA16A7; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:47:33 +0100 Message-ID: <3670E53A.1C9D3E0@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:26:18 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater CC: David Carlisle , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > you need three \noexpands because TeX is looking for three keywords in > a loop that does not end until all three keyword searches return > "false". You won't need more \noexpands until TeX can do typesetting > in 3-d or colored rules, I guess. But for other images you need less: > > "widthcharge.png" needs only 1 \noexpand, "heightcharge.png" needs 2 > (but more \noexpands don't do any harm). "./heightcharge.png" needs > none, of course, but that's not portable across filesystems. Hm, but how come then that one can give 10 depth specs in a row? So how about? \pdfimage width 1cm height 1cm width 1cm width 3cm depthfile.png Fuzzy internals indeed. (although sometime one can abuse them) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Dec 12 06:53:15 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA20759 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:53:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA06834 for pdftex-list; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:22:08 -0500 Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA06831 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:22:07 -0500 Received: from aa056@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <38378-25403>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:21:47 -0400 Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:21:47 -0400 (AST) From: George White To: Sebastian Rahtz cc: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pragma@wxs.nl, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <13937.9170.504642.187446@srahtz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Well, plus 5 merit points for not assuming that Prof. Bloggs is a male, but minus 5 for the implication that a female academic might be silly! In any case, Prof. Bloggs is currently engaged in a field trip to Mars and isn't responding to messages from students. It should be an objective of pdftex to ensure that there is a straightforward mechanism by which "reasonable" pdftex documents can be processed using tex and produce a .dvi file that approximates the .pdf within "reasonable" limits. This goal is more important given the current somewhat fragile state of pdftex and related tools than it might be in the long term. -- George White Halifax, Nova Scotia On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Robert Howlett writes: > > I was imagining a situation where a person who doesn't have > > access to pdftex and has never heard of it comes to me and > > says "I've got this tex file from Prof. Bloggs, but when I > > run it I get the message > > undefined control sequence \pdfimage. > > What can I do?" > > I would answer "send it back to Prof. Bloggs and tell her not to be so > silly" :-} > > sebastian > From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Dec 12 06:59:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA20870 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:59:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA06840 for pdftex-list; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:23:33 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA06837 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:23:31 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:16 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA24394; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:11 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:23:10 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Taco Hoekwater , David Carlisle , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <3670E53A.1C9D3E0@wxs.nl> References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> <3670E53A.1C9D3E0@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13938.27631.653094.519081@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco wrote -- > > > > "widthcharge.png" needs only 1 \noexpand, "heightcharge.png" needs 2 > > (but more \noexpands don't do any harm). "./heightcharge.png" needs > > none, of course, but that's not portable across filesystems. Aagh! I wish you had not told me that:-) ... now I need to completly reconstruct my personal model of how that bit of TeX works ... let alone why! > Fuzzy internals indeed. (although sometime one can abuse them) Or try to, if one guesses correctly what happens internally. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Dec 12 07:11:51 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21080 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:11:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA06968 for pdftex-list; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:42:00 -0500 Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA06965 for ; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:41:59 -0500 Received: from aa056@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <39708-25400>; Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:37:16 -0400 Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:37:15 -0400 (AST) From: George White To: Hans Hagen cc: Taco Hoekwater , pdftex@tug.org, mjd@ams.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives (Re: BOUNCE Michael John Downes) In-Reply-To: <3671478D.CB6866A0@wxs.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Hans Hagen wrote: > Taco Hoekwater wrote: > > > \include{file name} % cpp, but problematic for latex I guess > > Probably less that \protected, \unexpanded and some more in context. I > already have those -). > > > > 4. \pdfimage height 3cm {File Name} > > > > > > with height/depth/width specs going before the open brace. > > > > This is good too. > > What exactly is {File Name} in terms of internal tex scanning? A token > list? (Certainly no box content) > > Hans It might be useful to have a low-level mechanism to deal with "foreign" strings, e.g., by analogy to \verb: \foreign%Filena~1%. -- George White Halifax, Nova Scotia From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Dec 13 11:18:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA21025 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 11:18:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA08293 for pdftex-list; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:36:51 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA08290 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 12:36:49 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.121]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6B28; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:43:50 +0100 Message-ID: <3670E0EB.FD3A9226@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:07:55 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater CC: David Carlisle , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > Here you can insert \relax, but that won't work for pdftex since then > it will believe the image file is "" (\relax). The only way out is to > split the two primitives into \pdfimagesize and \pdfimage, like so: > > \pdfimagesize height 34pt > \pdfimage heightened.png > > Which is also ugly, but a bit more in line with the rest of TeX. .. or \pdfimage width .. height .. file .. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Dec 13 16:09:01 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA26188 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 16:08:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08585 for pdftex-list; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:19:44 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA08582 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:19:42 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:19:40 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id WAA25281; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:19:35 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:19:35 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <13938.27631.653094.519081@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> <3670E53A.1C9D3E0@wxs.nl> <13938.27631.653094.519081@fell.open.ac.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13940.15498.29905.422167@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I wrote -- > Taco wrote -- > > > > > > "widthcharge.png" needs only 1 \noexpand, "heightcharge.png" needs 2 > > > (but more \noexpands don't do any harm). "./heightcharge.png" needs > > > none, of course, but that's not portable across filesystems. > > Aagh! I wish you had not told me that:-) ... now I need to completly > reconstruct my personal model of how that bit of TeX works I'm OK again now with this one ... when it does find a , it starts scanning for width again, etc, etc, ad infinitum ... what a lot of scanning! This is all as per the syntax on p282. Whilst we are in tutorial mode, another difference between rule specs and glue specs is: with glue, when both are present, the plus and minus bits must come in that order; this feature caught me a few times! chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 03:05:48 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08692 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:05:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA09130 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:12 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA09127 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:10 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.154]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4C6D; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:19:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3674C619.F4B23070@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:02:33 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Royster, David" CC: "'pdftex@tug.org'" Subject: Re: deflate() References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Royster, David wrote: > Error: pdftex: > deflate( ) failed > C:\texmf\miktex\bin\pdftex.exe: No error I got that one a few times too, but could not yet trace the problem down completely. It happened to some eps files I converted to pdf using distiller. These were the only eps files with previews, and thereby had some funny garbage lines after the pdf 1.2 header line. Rather fuzzy. The zipped streams look ok to me. > Is this a pdftex problem, or an implementation problem? I do not have > another system yet set up on which I could try to process the file. It's a xpdf tex problem I guess. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 03:06:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08698 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:06:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA09139 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:24 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA09134 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:23 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.154]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA384; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:19:20 +0100 Message-ID: <3674D084.42E835FB@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:47:00 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: David Carlisle , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org, S.Rahtz@elsevier.co.uk Subject: Re: pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <366FE1D6.C6A5E736@wxs.nl> <13938.18980.468630.567007@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > Although I can get people to attempt to test these empirically, or to > look at the change file so as to work out what may be happening, this > is very inefficient; moreover, it only helps to establish the actual > semantics this week. It is no help in trying to evaluate whether the > code actually does what Thanh or anyone else intended it to do; and it > is little help in evaluating whether the high-level design spec was > optimal in the first place. > > So please, please, please can we have something to read along these lines, > before the merger with etex. They have already merged mysteriously. Hurray! Concerning the specs I suppose Sebastian and I have to fill in that gap because we're dealing with the manual now. In general pdftex extensions are rather straightforward. The main point is synchronization, which is rather new related to tex. Normally we do things in specials, and they end up in the dvi file in the place we expect them. The only fuzzy thing I can come up with in good old tex is marks: because they can migrate >From their current location. Some examples: \pdfobj -> directly 'shipped' out \pdfpageattr -> content handled at ship out time \pdfliteral -> handled like special \pdfpagewidth -> to be set before first shipout Some of these differ rather fundamental from the \special case, in terms of when the macropackage has to deal with them. I have plans to add these things to the manual. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 03:07:06 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08705 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA09142 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:25 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA09138 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:24 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.154]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4CCD; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:19:18 +0100 Message-ID: <3674C8A5.913681B9@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:13:25 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: David Carlisle , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <366FE1D6.C6A5E736@wxs.nl> <13938.18436.570428.29484@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > The other suggested syntax may make this a useful feature: > > \pdfimage Makes sense. (Although, {filename} can rather easy be separated and thereby reversed at the macro level.) > One could even imagine these values behaving in other ways like those > of rules. Right. No problem. What is the depth of a graphic anyway. > However, I would favour investigation of getting a better > syntax/scanning for all file-name-like strings in eTeX. Aren't file things at the etex agenda? I remember discussion about binary files too. It makes sense to sort it out all in once. > However, The Mysterious Oligarchy (or more likely He, their Great > Silent Democratic Leader) may not approve of even thinking such > thoughts. Probably too busy contemplating -) hopefully resulting in Big Thoughts. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 03:09:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08757 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:09:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA09152 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:34 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA09149 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:32 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.154]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3AA; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:19:28 +0100 Message-ID: <3674D2CA.B57EA6DC@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:56:42 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George White CC: Taco Hoekwater , pdftex@tug.org, mjd@ams.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives (Re: BOUNCE Michael John Downes) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White wrote: > It might be useful to have a low-level mechanism to deal with "foreign" > strings, e.g., by analogy to \verb: \foreign%Filena~1%. Not that hard to program in macros. The only problematic ones are the % and #, where the latter shouldn't be, but alas is (this was discussed with the etex team recently and there are some thoughts on that). BTW, etex does offer some rescanning features that can serve this purpose. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 03:16:03 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08872 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:16:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA09148 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:32 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA09145 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 04:19:30 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.154]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA398; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:19:25 +0100 Message-ID: <3674D20D.6AAFBF15@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:53:33 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George White CC: Sebastian Rahtz , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White wrote: > can be processed using tex and produce a .dvi file that approximates > the .pdf within "reasonable" limits. This goal is more important I would say: exactly the same, apart from features beyond devi. > given the current somewhat fragile state of pdftex and related tools I wonder if pdftex is that fragile. If we compare the pdf related extensions to dvi special support etc., pdftex is not more fragile than dvi->ps converters. The pdf viewers *are* fragile however. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 05:02:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10266 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 05:02:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA10119 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:01:16 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA10116 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:01:15 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA19114; hop 0; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:52:42 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:00:59 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:40:14 +0000 (GMT) To: aa056@chebucto.ns.ca Cc: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pragma@wxs.nl, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: References: <13937.9170.504642.187446@srahtz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White writes: > Well, plus 5 merit points for not assuming that Prof. Bloggs is a male, > but minus 5 for the implication that a female academic might be silly! even i refuse to accept the proposition that No Women Are Ever Silly > It should be an objective of pdftex to ensure that there is a > straightforward mechanism by which "reasonable" pdftex documents > can be processed using tex and produce a .dvi file that approximates > the .pdf within "reasonable" limits. This goal is more important > given the current somewhat fragile state of pdftex and related tools > than it might be in the long term. I think it should always be borne in mind that pdftex is Thanh's research project, and that *he* sets the objectives, not us. The stuff about whether file names can start with the word "depth" is mildly interesting, I suppose, and pdfTeX's syntax should probably be changed for that reason. But I for one am simply shocked that serious TeX users would insert \pdfXXX commands directly in their source files at all, as opposed to wrapping them in TeX-version-sensitive macros. Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 05:19:48 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA10478 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 05:19:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA10127 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:01:37 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA10124 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:01:36 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA19146; hop 0; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:53:04 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:01:13 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13940.56904.121245.116281@srahtz> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:45:44 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Non-member submission from [Michael John Downes ] In-Reply-To: <199812121943.OAA07674@tug.org> References: <199812121943.OAA07674@tug.org> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > George White writes: > > > Well, plus 5 merit points for not assuming that Prof. Bloggs is a male, > > but minus 5 for the implication that a female academic might be silly! > > Oh I think Sebastian doesn't deserve the minus 5 if (as I conjecture) > he intended to imply that the likelihood of being silly was related > to being an *academic*, not to being a female. > From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 06:34:24 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA11459 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 06:34:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA10493 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:26:56 -0500 Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA10490 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:26:55 -0500 Received: from aa056@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33859-25404>; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:27:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:27:30 -0400 (AST) From: George White To: Sebastian Rahtz cc: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pragma@wxs.nl, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > [...] > The stuff about whether file names can start with the word "depth" is > mildly interesting, I suppose, and pdfTeX's syntax should probably be > changed for that reason. But I for one am simply shocked that serious > TeX users would insert \pdfXXX commands directly in their source > files at all, as opposed to wrapping them in TeX-version-sensitive macros. > > Sebastian It seems to be a fundamental principle that serious people will be shocked and amazed by the way their tools are used in the real world. It would probably help, particularly in these days of cut and paste document writing, to encourage better practices if Sebastian's suggestion were adopted in the example documents provided with pdftex and in the FAQ. It would also be useful to add pdftex support to some widely used documents such as the manual for the graphics package, and in fact useful if all the latex2e documentation could be made more pdftex friendly to take advantage of things like the outline view in acrobat reader. I find that online documentation in pdf format is more likely to be read than if it is in .dvi or even .ps format, if only because it takes a bit more effort on the part of users to support .dvi and .ps files in their WWW browsers than to support pdf files. I once tried making graphics.pdf as an exercise -- at the time there were some issues with the current version of pdftex for including pdf figures, but the biggest technical challenge might be creating the pdf test image, a.pdf, in a platform independent way. -- George White Halifax, Nova Scotia From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 07:04:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11847 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:04:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA10690 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:02:47 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10687 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:02:45 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA24161; hop 0; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:54:12 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:02:30 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13941.1762.395954.264741@srahtz> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:38:58 +0000 (GMT) To: aa056@chebucto.ns.ca Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: References: <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White writes: > It would probably help, particularly in these days of cut and paste > document writing, to encourage better practices if Sebastian's suggestion > were adopted in the example documents provided with pdftex and in the FAQ. pdftex only *has* one example file, to be fair. i'd agree that rewriting it as a model of portability would be a good exercise, who is volunteering? > It would also be useful to add pdftex support to some widely used > documents such as the manual for the graphics package, and in fact useful i'd mildly surprised there is any problem with just running "hylatex" on most such files. the grfguide is a rather special problem, i think. what _I'd_ like is for "docstrip" not to use the | stuff in its indexing, so that hyperref could get a good index immediately > that online documentation in pdf format is more likely to be read than if > it is in .dvi or even .ps format, if only because it takes a bit more i agree. Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 07:44:55 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA12452 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:44:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA10936 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:50:57 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA10933 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:50:54 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id NAA14622; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:48:48 GMT Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:48:48 GMT Message-Id: <199812141348.NAA14622@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> (message from Sebastian Rahtz on Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:40:14 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <13937.9170.504642.187446@srahtz> <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > The stuff about whether file names can start with the word "depth" is > mildly interesting, I suppose, and pdfTeX's syntax should probably be > changed for that reason. But I for one am simply shocked that serious > TeX users would insert \pdfXXX commands directly in their source > files at all, as opposed to wrapping them in TeX-version-sensitive macros. But that surely is the point, at least with the primitive syntax you might have a clue why depthcharge.png fails, but how is the serious latex user supposed to know why \includegraphics{depthcharge} fails. So, since I think you have write control for pdftex.def these days, better release a copy that has \noexpand\noexpand\noexpand\@empty before the #1 in all cases where pdftex uses \pdfimage :-) I agree that a better primitive syntax would be nice, but making latex work with the current synatax does not do any harm. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 08:22:26 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13375 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:22:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11124 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:20:25 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11121 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:20:23 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA26937; hop 0; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:11:52 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:20:13 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 I); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13941.6186.205851.71705@srahtz> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:52:42 +0000 (GMT) To: davidc@nag.co.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <199812141348.NAA14622@nag.co.uk> References: <13937.9170.504642.187446@srahtz> <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> <199812141348.NAA14622@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle writes: > So, since I think you have write control for pdftex.def these days, > better release a copy that has \noexpand\noexpand\noexpand\@empty > before the #1 in all cases where pdftex uses \pdfimage :-) are you serious? literally this? > I agree that a better primitive syntax would be nice, but making latex > work with the current synatax does not do any harm. > agreed. but not relevant to question of whether one needs a non-pdftex emulation of \pdfXXX s From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 08:37:30 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13728 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:37:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA11162 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:24:18 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA11159 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:24:15 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id OAA19586; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:22:00 GMT Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 14:22:00 GMT Message-Id: <199812141422.OAA19586@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <13941.6186.205851.71705@srahtz> (message from Sebastian Rahtz on Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:52:42 +0000 (GMT)) Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <13937.9170.504642.187446@srahtz> <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> <199812141348.NAA14622@nag.co.uk> <13941.6186.205851.71705@srahtz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > are you serious? literally this? yes yes From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 09:06:06 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14487 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:06:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11585 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:24:25 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11582 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:24:23 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.19]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5BA7; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:24:08 +0100 Message-ID: <36752E8C.51CF9311@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:28:12 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Rahtz CC: aa056@chebucto.ns.ca, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> <13941.1762.395954.264741@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > It would probably help, particularly in these days of cut and paste > > document writing, to encourage better practices if Sebastian's suggestion > > were adopted in the example documents provided with pdftex and in the FAQ. > > pdftex only *has* one example file, to be fair. i'd agree that > rewriting it as a model of portability would be a good exercise, who > is volunteering? What exactly is meant by portability here? BTW, isn't this example file just meant as an example of primitives used, not as example of document setup? Ever seen the texbook source -). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 09:14:57 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA14701 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:14:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11553 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:21:50 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11550 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:21:48 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.19]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA765; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:21:16 +0100 Message-ID: <36752C4E.E38E158D@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:18:38 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George White CC: Sebastian Rahtz , rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White wrote: > It would also be useful to add pdftex support to some widely used > documents such as the manual for the graphics package, and in fact useful > if all the latex2e documentation could be made more pdftex friendly to > take advantage of things like the outline view in acrobat reader. I find > that online documentation in pdf format is more likely to be read than if > it is in .dvi or even .ps format, if only because it takes a bit more > effort on the part of users to support .dvi and .ps files in their WWW > browsers than to support pdf files. PDF is just another output format. It does offer some more things than DVI, especially hyperthings and included graphics/fonts. From the users point of view, not so much has changed. For normal, avarage documents, there is no difference between in te process of making the document, when using dvi or pdf. Things like bookmarks can easily be supported by dvi viewers, if wanted. Building low level pdf things directly into the document is dangerous and just as unwise as building in specials. The real fundamental differences between pdf and dvi are the 'one pass' (no postprocessing) and 'object reuse', but these are typical things to be taken care of at the low level macro writing. > I once tried making graphics.pdf as an exercise -- at the time there were > some issues with the current version of pdftex for including pdf figures, > but the biggest technical challenge might be creating the pdf test image, > a.pdf, in a platform independent way. Currently pdf inclusion is limited in (1) not sharing common fonts, (2) potential clashes in resourcenames. I think some day (1) will be solved and (2) is mostly due to bugs in viewers, so that one will be solved too. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 10:08:47 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16178 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:08:46 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12047 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:21:35 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12044 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:21:34 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id QAA02121; hop 0; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:13:01 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:21:10 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13941.14898.801050.536298@srahtz> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:17:54 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <199812141348.NAA14622@nag.co.uk> References: <13937.9170.504642.187446@srahtz> <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> <199812141348.NAA14622@nag.co.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle writes: > So, since I think you have write control for pdftex.def these days, > better release a copy that has \noexpand\noexpand\noexpand\@empty > before the #1 in all cases where pdftex uses \pdfimage :-) > the file http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/pdftex.def is duly updated sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 10:50:16 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17328 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:50:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12172 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:43:45 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA12169 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 11:43:27 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 14 Dec 98 16:43:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19981214164310.A29182@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:43:10 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <13940.56574.907209.995380@srahtz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from George White on Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 08:27:30AM -0400 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 08:27:30AM -0400, George White wrote: > It would also be useful to add pdftex support to some widely used > documents such as the manual for the graphics package, and in fact useful > if all the latex2e documentation could be made more pdftex friendly to > take advantage of things like the outline view in acrobat reader. I agree completely. Also amsldoc. An incidental advantage of this (if the original .tex file were also available) is that it would provide valuable "samplers" of pdftex input files. > I find > that online documentation in pdf format is more likely to be read than if > it is in .dvi or even .ps format, if only because it takes a bit more > effort on the part of users to support .dvi and .ps files in their WWW > browsers than to support pdf files. Why is it easier for PDF than DVI? Incidentally, on a related point but one irrelevant to PdfTeX, it's a pity xdvi does not look along the path DVIINPUTS defined in .../web2c/texmf.cnf, as far as I can see. If it did, one could just tell people to "xdvi amsldoc", for example. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 13:51:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27076 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:51:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA12773 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:04:22 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12770 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:04:19 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA19514 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:04:14 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA25849 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:04:12 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199812142004.VAA25849@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex primitives To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:04:11 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I think changing syntax of pdfimage to \pdfimage file width...height...depth... would be fine. Any other suggestions? Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 15:38:26 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA00513 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 15:38:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA13008 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:59:38 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA13005 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 16:59:29 -0500 Received: from remote142-12.home.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.142.12] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 0zpg1A-0002hz-00; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:59:05 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19981214225853.3497b630@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:58:53 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: Re: pdftex primitives In-Reply-To: <199812142004.VAA25849@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk At 21:04 14.12.1998 +0100, Han The Thanh wrote: >I think changing syntax of pdfimage to \pdfimage file width...height...depth... >would be fine. Any other suggestions? 1. Spaces in file names? "file width.png" 2. What should be the end of the file name? a) End marker * space (see problem 1.) * space + width/height/depth * special character \pdfimage Begin...EndOfFileName^^A width... \pfdimage Begin...EndOfFileName WithSize width... (the file name must not contain "WithSize" or ^^A.) b) Marks like \verb: \pdfimage +Begin...EndOfFileName+ width... The + can be replaced by any other character. But this character must not appear in the file name. c) Curly braces (\catcodes 1, and 2) \pdfimage{Begin...EndOfFileName}width... Best regards Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 17:28:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03531 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:28:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA13254 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:58:01 -0500 Received: from math.ams.org (math.ams.org [130.44.210.14]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA13251 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:57:59 -0500 Received: from sun06.ams.org by math.ams.org via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 14 Dec 1998 23:57:59 UT Received: from sun06.ams.org by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) id <0F3Z00C01BWI83@sun06.ams.org> for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:57:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:57:53 -0500 From: Michael John Downes Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-reply-to: Hans Hagen's message of Fri, 11 Dec 1998 14:30:54 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Lines: 33 References: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> <36711E8E.19444F6@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen writes: > > Like \font but allows spaces in font file names. > > Great, the bigger the mess, the happier we are. If the file name is scanned as an arbitrary string---like the contents of \csname---then it makes more sense perhaps to allow a space than to not allow it. Spacey file names are indeed a royal pain for command line usage and so on but are there purely internal TeX reasons for avoiding them? It's not clear to me that there are. > > 1-3 above would have saved me many puzzling moments and a lot of extra > > work over the years to save users from unnecessary or unapropos error > > messages. > > Well, I admit that it can be annoying, but once wrapped in macros, those > primitives are not that bad. I can come up with more problematic ones -) Agreed. As far as the TeX primitives go I am only wishful thinking, with benefit of hindsight, and so on. But for new pdfTeX primitives surely it is better to avoid similar missteps if they are unnecessary and a reasonable alternative syntax can be found. > I don't like the interject. It does not ring a bell on files. Oh, I was assuming that it would just get wrapped in a macro and no one would ever see it except a few TeXnicians. :-) Michael Downes [Hoping that I got my subscriber address fixed so this goes through as a regular post to the pdftex list instead of bouncing ...] From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 14 18:22:20 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA04929 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 18:22:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA13462 for pdftex-list; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:54:51 -0500 Received: from ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca [131.104.96.18]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA13459 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:54:49 -0500 Received: from msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca (msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca [131.104.32.59]) by ccshst09.cs.uoguelph.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA29229; Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:54:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from MSNET/SpoolDir by msnet.mathstat.uoguelph.ca (Mercury 1.40); 14 Dec 98 19:53:46 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by MSNET (Mercury 1.40); 14 Dec 98 19:53:25 -0500 From: "William R. Smith" Organization: Math & Stats, University of Guelph To: Hans Hagen Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:53:23 -500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Minus signs don't print - problem solved CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <3674D8C1.AE3FEE43@wxs.nl> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > William R. Smith wrote: > > > In our experience, for any other output, the only problem is "falling > > off the (bottom of the?) page", as you note. However, the problem we > > encountered here was that any minus signs IN THE MIDDLE OF THE > > DOCUMENT simply disappeared when the document was printed from Adobe > > Acrobat Reader. They appeared fine on the computer screen tho. > > Disable all caching, when using distiller, always embed subsets and > prefix filenames if possible. Especially older distillers/readers do > a lot of strange optimizations. Spaces and minus are famous ones. Thanks for the info, but we have been using the latest copy of Acrobat Reader (3.01) to read the .pdf files produced _directly_ by pdftex - we print them from the Reader. We're pretty sure that the source of the particular problem we encountered when printing mathematical text has been identified - if the page size is A4, we can read it on the reader, but the minus signs disappear when printing - but this result does not occur on all printers :-( If I remember correctly, we also tried using distiller, and got the same result. BTW, we've been using a Win95/NT machine - we've encountered printing problems for mathematical text using Acrobat Reader on a Mac too - but that's a completely different story - we've basically given up on that one. Anyone have any ideas here? The files are on http://www.chemical-stoichiometry.net. The .pdf files cannot be printed at all from (some, but not all) Mac's. We think the problem there is related to fonts that are available on most PC's but not on Mac's. Since we are not keen on the use of Mac's ourselves, we have not pursued the matter. Best Regards, W. R. Smith Professor Dept. of Mathematics and Statistics and School of Engineering University of Guelph FAX: 519-837-0221 Guelph, Ontario Tel: 519-824-4120, ext. 3038 CANADA N1G 2W1 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 15 03:36:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15819 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:36:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA14087 for pdftex-list; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:40:05 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA14083 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:40:04 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.16]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2547; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:40:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3676232F.95959D3D@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:51:59 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Michael John Downes CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <199812101626.LAA00062@tug.org> <13936.58574.678304.517099@srahtz> <36711E8E.19444F6@wxs.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Michael John Downes wrote: > > Well, I admit that it can be annoying, but once wrapped in macros, those > > primitives are not that bad. I can come up with more problematic ones -) > > Agreed. As far as the TeX primitives go I am only wishful thinking, > with benefit of hindsight, and so on. But for new pdfTeX primitives > surely it is better to avoid similar missteps if they are unnecessary > and a reasonable alternative syntax can be found. As sebastian already pointed out, nothing is fixed and thanh is free to change whatever he wants. Actually, there has been changes, even primitives no longer being supported, keywords being changed, different functionality. As long as one wraps low level pdf primitives, this is no problem. And, as long as PDF is not stable itself, there will be more changes in pdftex. No problem with me -) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 15 09:08:34 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA22193 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:08:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA14660 for pdftex-list; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:20:03 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14657 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:19:47 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-5-39.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.56.163]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA22991; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:17:29 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <367588A6.3C23EB5F@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:52:38 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> <3670E53A.1C9D3E0@wxs.nl> <13938.27631.653094.519081@fell.open.ac.uk> <13940.15498.29905.422167@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > I wrote -- > > Taco wrote -- > > > > > > > > "widthcharge.png" needs only 1 \noexpand, "heightcharge.png" needs 2 > > > > (but more \noexpands don't do any harm). "./heightcharge.png" needs > > > > none, of course, but that's not portable across filesystems. > > > > Aagh! I wish you had not told me that:-) ... now I need to completly > > reconstruct my personal model of how that bit of TeX works > > I'm OK again now with this one ... when it does find a > , it starts scanning for width again, > etc, etc, ad infinitum ... what a lot of scanning! > This is all as per the syntax on p282. > But when vrule or hrule is followed by noexpand, as with \vrule \noexpand\noexpand ..., TeX effectively discards the first noexpand after looking unsuccessfully for "width", so that it has fewer noexpands in front of it when it goes on to look for "height". I don't see anything on p282 or elsewhere in the TeXBook that indicates a lack of symmetry in the syntax relating to the keywords "width", "height" and "depth", and so I still contend that TeX's different behaviour with the two constructions xxx \vrule \noexpand\empty width xxx and xxx \vrule \noexpand\empty height xxx is a bug. Bob Howlett From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 15 10:16:13 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA23758 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:16:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA14948 for pdftex-list; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:21:46 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14945 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:21:42 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-8-33.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.95]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA19593 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:21:38 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36768BCE.881A4098@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:18:22 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdfTeX mailing list Subject: File names Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > file names are really strings. If they are read from a token list, the > list is printed to the pool first. The name is ended by cat10, so if > you can find a way to get space cat12 in the string, spaces in > filenames are legal. > I've tried fiddling with catcodes to get TeX to input a file whose name contains spaces, and so far I've failed. Can anyone else figure out a way to do this? My experimentation suggests that when TeX is reading a file name it continues on expanding things until it finds a space (or other thing of category 10) or an unexpandable control sequence. Is this right? Is it the same on all platforms? The spaces-in-filenames culture is probably unstoppable; so I'm inclined to think that TeX should accommodate it, e.g. by allowing file names in quotes. Bob Howlett From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 15 11:00:52 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24893 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA14955 for pdftex-list; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:22:02 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14952 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:21:59 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-8-33.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.95]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA19575; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:21:32 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <367689C3.B3427B9C@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:09:39 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX mailing list Subject: Re: pdftex primitives References: <199812142004.VAA25849@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh wrote: > > I think changing syntax of pdfimage to \pdfimage file width...height...depth... > would be fine. Any other suggestions? > > Thanh This seems to be the best suggestion, given that it is desirable that \pdfimage should treat file names the same way as \input does. I myself would prefer {file} instead of file in all cases. Bob Howlett From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 15 11:02:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24906 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:02:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA15173 for pdftex-list; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:25:59 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA15169 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:25:34 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id RAA22234; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:23:37 GMT Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:23:37 GMT Message-Id: <199812151723.RAA22234@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: rhowlett@mail.usyd.edu.au CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <36768BCE.881A4098@mail.usyd.edu.au> (message from Robert Howlett on Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:18:22 +1100) Subject: Re: File names References: <36768BCE.881A4098@mail.usyd.edu.au> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I've tried fiddling with catcodes to get TeX to input > and so far I've failed. > Can anyone else figure out a way to do this? You can not do it. Some tex systems allow filenames with spaces to be used on the top level file passed to tex by the operating system, but tex's \input does not allow spaces. catcodes do not come into it. a character code of 32 will stop the scan whatever the catcode. > The spaces-in-filenames culture is probably unstoppable; so I'm > inclined to think that TeX should accommodate it, e.g. by allowing > file names in quotes. TeX won't change. etex or pdftex though could choose a more sensible mechanism. Quotes seems like a bad idea, why not just a normal catcode-1 catcode-2 group ie {} normally. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 15 04:20:48 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16573 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA14084 for pdftex-list; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:40:04 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA14079 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:40:02 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.16]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA250D; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:39:54 +0100 Message-ID: <367620F1.A0A8694A@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:42:25 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh Subject: Re: pdftex primitives References: <199812142004.VAA25849@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh wrote: > > I think changing syntax of pdfimage to \pdfimage file width...height...depth... > would be fine. Any other suggestions? 1: \pdfimage width ... height ... depth ... { } 2: \pdfimage width ... height ... depth ... file { } 3: \pdfimage ... width ... height ... depth ... % \relax needed 4: \pdfimage width ... height ... depth ... ... % \relax needed all make sense and fit into existing shemes. Personally I would prefer (2) with no prescribed order. The { } permits spaces in filenames. The file keyword permits a different order. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 15 13:19:29 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29168 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:19:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA15568 for pdftex-list; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:35:03 -0500 Received: from math.ams.org (math.ams.org [130.44.210.14]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA15565 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:35:01 -0500 Received: from sun06.ams.org by math.ams.org via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 15 Dec 1998 18:35:01 UT Received: from sun06.ams.org by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) id <0F4000J01RMCCA@sun06.ams.org> for pdftex@tug.org; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:35:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:35:00 -0500 From: Michael John Downes Subject: Re: File names In-reply-to: Robert Howlett's message of Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:18:22 +1100 To: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Lines: 36 References: <36768BCE.881A4098@mail.usyd.edu.au> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Robert Howlett writes: > My experimentation suggests that when TeX is reading a file name > it continues on expanding things until it finds a space > (or other thing of category 10) or an unexpandable control sequence. > Is this right? Is it the same on all platforms? On my system (standard Unix/web2c TeX) I ran a test file and found that: 1. (10) terminates the file name. 2. (12) terminates the file name. 3. _(10) does not terminate the file name. Here _(10) means underscore character (ASCII 95), catcode 10. Bear in mind that when you write \catcode`\_=10 \input foo_bar.tex the character token that TeX actually sees after "foo" is (10) (character code 32) because TeX does that conversion automatically during tokenization. You cannot get an _(10) token into TeX's token stream except by \lowercase-type tricks. Looking at tex.web I see that the function more_name is explicitly identified as system-dependent (naturally). But it does not necessarily follow that the way in which the name is terminated is part of the system-dependent-ness of \input; on the contrary, it appears that Knuth intended the statement in "The TeXbook", Chapter 24, p 278, to be definitive: A sequence of six or fewer ordinary letters and/or digits followed by a space should be a file name that works in essentially the same way on all installations of TeX. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 15 14:06:55 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA00838 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:06:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA15793 for pdftex-list; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:19:39 -0500 Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA15790 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:19:38 -0500 Received: from pviton (paviton.crp.ohio-state.edu [128.146.236.202]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA03187 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:19:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981215152430.00917960@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: pviton@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:24:30 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org From: "Philip A. Viton" Subject: pdftex + truetype + reencoding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Can anyone confirm whether pdftex 12r correctly re-encodes true-type (TT) fonts? I'm using the system with the TT fonts from Kinch (TrueTeX) and can't get the cmr ligatures to display. pdftex finds the TT fonts and the encoding vector cmtext.enc; but the ligatures show up as empty boxes. processing the test file through pdftex with \pdfoutput=0 gives the correct results, if that's any help. Also, the message about pdftex at cstug refers to the file enc-note from Petr Oslak - this doesn't seem to be on the system, or did I miss it? Philip A. Viton ------------------ City Planning, Ohio State University viton.1@osu.edu From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 16 03:36:17 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA19633 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:36:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA17064 for pdftex-list; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:30:06 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id EAA17061 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:30:04 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:29:21 +0100 Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J5EHTPHJ00008E4L@wkap.nl>; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:29:19 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:29:41 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: depthcharge was: Ignoring pdftex primitives In-reply-to: <367588A6.3C23EB5F@mail.usyd.edu.au> To: Robert Howlett Cc: Chris Rowley , pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13943.35733.192240.790468@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <366F990C.E0AEC325@mail.usyd.edu.au> <199812101108.LAA19662@nag.co.uk> <13935.55760.930958.127305@localhost> <199812101528.PAA19636@nag.co.uk> <13936.744.833877.492710@localhost> <3670E53A.1C9D3E0@wxs.nl> <13938.27631.653094.519081@fell.open.ac.uk> <13940.15498.29905.422167@fell.open.ac.uk> <367588A6.3C23EB5F@mail.usyd.edu.au> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Robert Howlett wrote: > But when vrule or hrule is followed by noexpand, as with > \vrule \noexpand\noexpand ..., > TeX effectively discards the first noexpand after looking unsuccessfully > for "width", so that it has fewer noexpands in front of it when it > goes on to look for "height". I don't see anything on p282 or > elsewhere in the TeXBook that indicates a lack of symmetry > in the syntax relating to the keywords "width", "height" and "depth", > and so I still contend that TeX's different behaviour with > the two constructions > xxx \vrule \noexpand\empty width xxx > and > xxx \vrule \noexpand\empty height xxx > is a bug. I agree (even if it was documented in the TeXbook, it would still be a bug) Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 16 08:13:37 1998 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24682 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:13:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA17573 for pdftex-list; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:16:45 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA17570 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:16:42 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (0@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA28420 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 15:16:27 +0100 (MET) Received: (from sojka@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA11806 for pdftex@tug.org; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:19:17 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <19981216141917.C10643@informatics.muni.cz> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:19:17 +0100 From: Petr Sojka To: pdfTeX List Subject: [PDFdev] ANNOUNCING: Acrobat Reader 4.0 BETA Test (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk FYI: --ps ----- Forwarded message from Kurt Foss ----- > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:35:27 -0600 > To: PDFdev@lists.pdfzone.com > From: Kurt Foss > Subject: [PDFdev] ANNOUNCING: Acrobat Reader 4.0 BETA Test > Reply-To: pdfdev@lists.pdfzone.com > X-Email Lists: Sub/Unsub http://www.pdfzone.com/resources/lists.html > X-List Archive: http://www.pdfzone.com/cgi-bin/wilma.cgi/pdfdev/ > X-Contact: List Administrator mailto:listowner@pdfzone.com > X-Sponsor/Advt Opportunities: mailto:adinfo@pdfzone.com > > > > > We are pleased to announce that PDFzone.COM is hosting an expansion of the > testing of Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0 BETA software. The four-week project > begins today. > > Detailed information, including a Beta Project FAQ, is available at: > > http://www.pdfzone.com/ > > Interested participants will need to download, print, complete and fax > to Adobe a signed confidentiality agreement form to Adobe before > being allowed to download the beta software from PDFzone.COM. > > As this software is pre-release, no discussion among participants should > occur on any of the PDFzone.COM-hosted email lists (or other lists and > newsgroups, for that matter). > > rgds ~ Kurt > > __________________________________________________ > > * P D F z o n e . C O M * > "An Independent Hub to All Things PDF" > __________________________________________________ > 579 D'Onofrio Dr. 608/829-0183 > Suite 104 EMAIL: mailto:info@pdfzone.com > Madison, WI 53719 WWW: http://www.pdfzone.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > PDFzone.COM - "Independent Hub to All Things PDF" > > See "PDF Showcase" @ > __________________________________________________________________ > ----- End forwarded message ----- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 16 09:33:54 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26846 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:33:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA17844 for pdftex-list; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:37:36 -0500 Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17841 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:37:34 -0500 Received: from pviton (ts42-11.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.115.114]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA21133; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:37:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981216103822.009137a0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: pviton@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:38:22 -0400 To: pdftex@tug.org From: "Philip A. Viton" Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19981215152430.00917960@pop.service.ohio-state.ed u> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I've done a bit of experimenting here, and it looks to me as if the encoding vector is not being handled properly for TT fonts (WinNT4; AcroReader3.01; pdftex 12r): a. with the relevant line of cm.map reading cmr10 Cmr10 < >Can anyone confirm whether pdftex 12r correctly re-encodes true-type (TT) >fonts? I'm using the system with the TT fonts from Kinch (TrueTeX) and >can't get the cmr ligatures to display. > >pdftex finds the TT fonts and the encoding vector cmtext.enc; but the >ligatures show up as empty boxes. processing the test file through pdftex >with \pdfoutput=0 gives the correct results, if that's any help. > >Also, the message about pdftex at cstug refers to the file enc-note from >Petr Oslak - this doesn't seem to be on the system, or did I miss it? > >Philip A. Viton >------------------ >City Planning, Ohio State University >viton.1@osu.edu > > > > ------------------------ Philip A. Viton City Planning, Ohio State University 190 W. 17th Ave,Columbus OH 43210 viton.1@osu.edu From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 16 10:20:12 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27989 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA18030 for pdftex-list; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:40:28 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA18027 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:40:26 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id QAA12967; hop 0; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:31:51 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:40:12 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13943.56354.129808.759392@srahtz> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:13:22 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org, jd01@swt.edu Subject: Non-member submission from ["Julio G. Dix" ] In-Reply-To: <199812161607.LAA17942@tug.org> References: <199812161607.LAA17942@tug.org> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I am trying to type mathematical symbols in \pdfannottext > > For example > \pdannottext > width 5cm > height 2cm > dept 0pt > {This is an antiderivative $\int 2x\,dx=x^2+c$. } > > But TeX does not process the commands inside the annotaion. > Then when reading the article I click on the annotation and find the > dollar sings not the mathematical symbols. > PDF annotations use a fixed encoding and font. The text is not processed by TeX at all. In a word, no, you cannot do what you want using this method. You need to rethink your problem, I am afraid. I expect others can offer suggestions please join the pdftex list if you have more questions. Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 16 11:48:13 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00399 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:48:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA18367 for pdftex-list; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:07:03 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken96.apl.washington.edu [128.95.96.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA18364 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:07:01 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.152]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA18245 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:06:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3677F6C2.1806842B@apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:06:58 -0800 From: Jody Klymak X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdfTeX List Subject: *.sty for PDF publishing (AGU++?) References: <19981216141917.C10643@informatics.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi All, Perhaps this is the wrong place to ask this, but some of the most knowledgable people in the TeX world follow this so... Now that PdfTeX is working pretty well (at least for me), has anyone written style files so that their papers look good while being read onscreen? For instance, I almost exclusively use the AGU++ macros to write my oceanogrpahy papers. The various formats look great when printed. The PDF files also look great - from a distance and as a medium to print them. I wouldn't want to read them online. An example of this the the American Meteorological Society http://ams.allenpress.com/, which has exact replicas of all their journals online in PDF. They print up great, but they are unbearable to read using PDF (two-columns formats are defintely not doable!) Anyhow, if there is a repository of styles that some of you are using that you'd care to make public, I think it would help speed the production of quality scientific documents in PDF. Or perhaps people have simple suggestions about how to modify the basic styles in few steps. Cheers, Jody -- Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, Doctoral Candidate University of Washington mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu (206)-685-9080 http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 04:00:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21285 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA19156 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:52:19 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA19153 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:52:17 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id JAA01665; hop 0; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:43:42 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:51:57 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13944.53088.917520.650248@srahtz> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:31:12 +0000 (GMT) To: jklymak@apl.washington.edu Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: *.sty for PDF publishing (AGU++?) In-Reply-To: <3677F6C2.1806842B@apl.washington.edu> References: <19981216141917.C10643@informatics.muni.cz> <3677F6C2.1806842B@apl.washington.edu> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jody Klymak writes: > Now that PdfTeX is working pretty well (at least for me), has anyone written > style files so that their papers look good while being read onscreen? For a) I dont know of any public styles yet available. I guess we all have our own, and they are not yet polished enough to release. I started one, but deferred its development to C V Radhakrishnan; he and John Hillas may wish to make their work public? b) I'd recommend reading the Context documentation, as I guess Hans is the furthest ahead in this area. c) This is a quotation from the forthcoming LaTeX Web Companion: \begin{itemize} \item We set up a landscape page design, which has the same aspect ratio as the computer screen; we choose 6in $\times$ 4in; page margins are adjusted to suit. Remember that \LaTeX\ gives one inch margins by default; we need to crop the page so that the margins are of minimal width. The \LaTeX\ \Loption{oneside} option must be used, as there is no longer any concept of odd or even pages. When the text width is small, you should consider using \Lcs{raggedright} setting; \item We set the font family to one suited for screen reading; we choose Lucida Bright; \item Since there is no reason to fill pages, we set section headings to start a new page; \item We use color; section headings are set in blue, hypertext links are colored, table rows are shaded \etc; \item The \Lcs{ref} commands are replaced by \Lcs{autoref} (or by \Lcs{hyperref} if a more customized link is needed); this makes the colored links have a more visible context; \item Should you wish to disable the Acrobat menu and tool bar, a navigation and function bar can be put at the bottom of each page; \item To provide a visible pointer to the current page's location within the article, a progress gauge is placed at the bottom of each page: this works by comparing the current page number with the number of the last page, and constructing a colored bar of appropriate length. \end{itemize} sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 06:14:10 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA23564 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:14:09 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA19393 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:14:14 -0500 Received: from top.coli.uni-sb.de (IDENT:noCy3xMUMKpPm8F+J1A9RTK1IBLTQqX4@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA19390 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:13:43 -0500 Received: from top (crysmann@top [134.96.68.10]) by top.coli.uni-sb.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA08518 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:13:33 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3678F56D.1108@coli.uni-sb.de> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:13:33 +0100 From: Berthold Crysmann Organization: Graduiertenkolleg Kognitionswissenschaft, Universitaet des Saarlandes X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: How to crop pages? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk How do I set a crop box with pdftex/hyperref? I know ther's this pdfpagescrop option to hyperef, but what are the appropriate parameters? Is it the same as a PS bounding box, coordinates in points measured from the lower left corner or is it something else? Thanks for your help, Berthold -- Berthold Crysmann Universitaet des Saarlandes, Computerlinguistik Geb. 17.2, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken Tel. +49-681-302-4502 / Fax +49-681-302-4700 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 06:40:37 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24142 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:40:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA19554 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:56:11 -0500 Received: from lyra.rz.uni-ulm.de (lyra-fddi2.rz.uni-ulm.de [134.60.240.140]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA19550 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:56:00 -0500 Received: by lyra.rz.uni-ulm.de with Smail id m0zqcyB-000UefC; Thu, 17 Dec 98 13:55 MET Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:55:55 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: s_sthiam@lyra-fddi2.rz.uni-ulm.de To: mailinglist Subject: preamble for pdftex-documents Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From: Serge-Eric Thiam Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, What preambles r needed - appart those of noraml tex (I'm using teTeX)- when processing a tex doc through pdftex. I checked out the example.tex that came with the source of pdftex but there's no mention about any preambles. Is there anything like "\usepackage{pdftex}" ore lelse ? The "pdftex.def"-file? hre is it supposed to be in the directory-structure and how do i use it? Where do I get more infos on usind the pdftex primitives ? Thanks alot in advance and please excuse my ignorance, I new to pdftex (and TeX at all). ---== Serge Eric Thiam, Gutenberg Str. 6 / C303, D-89073 Ulm, Germany ==--- Tel.: +49-(0)731-9213410, http://www.uni-ulm.de/~s_sthiam From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 06:48:16 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24308 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:48:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA19492 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:50:42 -0500 Received: from extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (extra.ucc.su.oz.au [129.78.64.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA19489 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:50:39 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-13-39.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.58.163]) by extra.ucc.su.OZ.AU (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA14071; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:50:28 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <3678FD57.D92DCAC6@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:47:19 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Philip A. Viton" CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more References: <3.0.2.32.19981216103822.009137a0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk "Philip A. Viton" wrote: > > I've done a bit of experimenting here, and it looks to me as if the encoding > vector is not being handled properly for TT fonts (WinNT4; AcroReader3.01; > pdftex 12r): > > a. with the relevant line of cm.map reading > > cmr10 Cmr10 < > the pdf document shows no ligs; fhe File/DocInfo/Fonts listing shows > cmr10 as a truetype font with encoding "builtin", which is surely wrong? > > b. this is not specific to the Kinch version of the tt fonts: the tt > version of the Bakoma fonts have the same problem. > > c. for comparison, using a pfb version of cmr10, the ligs display correctly; > under Font Info the encoding is listed as "custom". > > So if the TT version lists the encoding as "builtin", while PFB shows > "custom" maybe that's the source of the problem? (Or maybe I don't > understand encodings?) > > At 03:24 PM 12/15/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Can anyone confirm whether pdftex 12r correctly re-encodes true-type (TT) > >fonts? I'm using the system with the TT fonts from Kinch (TrueTeX) and > >can't get the cmr ligatures to display. > > > >pdftex finds the TT fonts and the encoding vector cmtext.enc; but the > >ligatures show up as empty boxes. processing the test file through pdftex > >with \pdfoutput=0 gives the correct results, if that's any help. > > > >Also, the message about pdftex at cstug refers to the file enc-note from > >Petr Oslak - this doesn't seem to be on the system, or did I miss it? > > > >Philip A. Viton > >------------------ > >City Planning, Ohio State University > >viton.1@osu.edu > > > > > > I have found that the BaKoMa ttf versions of the cm fonts work fairly well, almost all glyphs displaying correctly, PROVIDED that the fonts are not "installed" on my system. i.e. if the ttf files are not in my Windows\fonts directory, then it's OK. When the ttf files are in the Windows\fonts directory then the glyphs in positions 0 to 31 don't display properly with acrobat reader 3.01. With ghostview, however, everything is OK whether or not the fonts are installed. So it's my belief that the problem is with acrobat reader, not pdftex, and I eagerly await acrobat 4.0. Actually, at present I'm seeing a problem with emdash's appearing where endash's should, and vice versa. I remember having this problem with some other true-type fonts a while ago, and so it's possible that I changed something and forgot to change it back. But I'd be interested to know if you witness this phenomenon. The cm ttf fonts work better than most other ttf fonts that I've tried, but probably only because they only have glyphs in positions 0 to 127. With other ttf fonts I generally find a handful of glyphs in positions 128 to 255 not displaying correctly. I believe that Thanh has spent a lot of time trying to fix it, but again I believe that it's a bug in acrobat reader that's the problem. Things are usually better with GSview. Bob Howlett From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 06:49:50 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24316 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:49:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA19528 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:54:48 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA19525 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:54:47 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id MAA09406; hop 0; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:46:11 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:54:29 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13944.65162.146978.55934@srahtz> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:52:26 +0000 (GMT) To: crysmann@coli.uni-sb.de Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to crop pages? In-Reply-To: <3678F56D.1108@coli.uni-sb.de> References: <3678F56D.1108@coli.uni-sb.de> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Berthold Crysmann writes: > How do I set a crop box with pdftex/hyperref? > > I know ther's this pdfpagescrop option to hyperef, but what are the > appropriate parameters? Is it the same as a PS bounding box, coordinates > in points measured from the lower left corner or is it something else? unless I am going mad, yes, thats it. I see i have some bizarrely complicated code to create it, though: \dimen@\paperheight \advance\dimen@ by -\cropheight \advance\dimen@ by -\croptop \divide \dimen@ by 7227 \multiply \dimen@ by 7200 \edef\BboxA{\strip@pt\dimen@}% \dimen@\cropwidth \advance\dimen@ by \cropleft \divide \dimen@ by 7227 \multiply \dimen@ by 7200 \edef\BboxB{\strip@pt\dimen@}% \dimen@\paperheight \divide \dimen@ by 7227 \multiply \dimen@ by 7200 \edef\BboxC{\strip@pt\dimen@}% \hypersetup{pdfpagescrop={0 \BboxA\space\BboxB\space\BboxC}} where \cropwidth, \cropheight, \cropleft are the parameters dictated by the page layout Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 07:27:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA25121 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA19807 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:27:48 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA19804 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:27:46 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id NAA10638; hop 0; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:19:11 GMT Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:27:30 +0000 Received: from lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.7]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06299; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:27:12 GMT Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA06654; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:27:21 GMT Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:27:21 GMT Message-Id: <199812171327.NAA06654@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> From: Sebastian Rahtz To: Serge-Eric.Thiam@student.uni-ulm.de Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: preamble for pdftex-documents In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Serge-Eric Thiam writes: > What preambles r needed - appart those of noraml tex (I'm using teTeX)- > when processing a tex doc through pdftex. I checked out the example.tex that none. unless you want to use a package which translates your cross-refs to hyperlinks. try \usepackage[pdftex]{hyperref} but its not *necessary* example.tex is plain TeX; i guess you are a LaTeX user. > The "pdftex.def"-file? hre is it supposed to be in the directory-structure > and how do i use it? put it wherever you have dvips.def. and say \usepackage[pdftex]{color} \usepackage[pdftex]{graphicx} if you need them. > Where do I get more infos on usind the pdftex primitives ? in the manual, at http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/, where you'll also find a FAQ sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 08:07:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25921 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:07:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA20393 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:21:54 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20390 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:21:51 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07247 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:21:48 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id PAA08723; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:29:01 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:29:01 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: How to uncrop pages? X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I have a counter question: the PDF files produced from Xpress + distiller with cropmarks have their cropmarks out of the viewable part of the PDF, but they do reappear if I print to PS. On the other hand, if i add cropmarks to my document (using cropmrks by Phil Taylor--which is rather latex unfriendly wrt hoffset, but the first casual use of h_origin i see...) i can put them correct on the dvi page, and on the PDF file. But if they're as they should be (not visible in the PDF) they simply don't show at all when i get the PS >From the PDF. this prevents using pdftex as a better prepress engine (resolution independant, better handling of subset type 1 fonts, revolutionnary justification mechanisms in the future...) that tex+dvips. Did i miss something obvious? Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/pdfTeX From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 08:41:42 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA26713 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:41:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA20757 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:00:21 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20754 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:00:19 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA13401; hop 0; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:51:45 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:00:06 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:53:40 +0000 (GMT) To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? In-Reply-To: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche writes: > dvi page, and on the PDF file. But if they're as they should be (not > visible in the PDF) they simply don't show at all when i get the PS > from the PDF. this prevents using pdftex as a better prepress engine not sure why you want the crop marks invisible in PDF? am *I* missing something? sebastian > From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 09:19:57 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27664 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:19:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21001 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:29:39 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20998 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:29:36 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14551; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:29:34 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id QAA11430; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:36:48 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:36:48 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? In-Reply-To: <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Concernant « Re: How to uncrop pages? », Sebastian Rahtz écrit : « » Thierry Bouche writes: » > dvi page, and on the PDF file. But if they're as they should be (not » > visible in the PDF) they simply don't show at all when i get the PS » > from the PDF. this prevents using pdftex as a better prepress engine » not sure why you want the crop marks invisible in PDF? I want the same PDF as electronic version and printable version. That's maybe the problem. (I mean, I use a typical magazine format like 17x22cm, which i put somewhere on an a4 sheet for printing or flashing). My idea was to produce a PDF file with PDF pages of 17x22, with crop marks out of them, that appear when i print that to PS on an a4 medium (hence the actual magazine pages are centered inside the a4 paper, with crop marks attached to them). Your answer makes me realize that i could readily do 2 PDF files, one a4 with crop marks visible, the other one for electronic delivery, instead of one PDF/one PS. But still i'd like to know whether what i want (putting printable things out of a PDF page, that will not be clipped off when i export as PS) requires some 'PS passthrough' magics, or is possible with current pdftex. Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 10:08:07 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28838 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:08:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21176 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:05:05 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21173 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:05:03 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id PAA16443; hop 0; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:56:27 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:04:38 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13945.10027.468598.52988@srahtz> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:45:47 +0000 (GMT) To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? In-Reply-To: <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche writes: > I want the same PDF as electronic version and printable > version. That's maybe the problem. (I mean, I use a typical magazine > format like 17x22cm, which i put somewhere on an a4 sheet for printing > or flashing). My idea was to produce a PDF file with PDF pages of > 17x22, with crop marks out of them, that appear when i print that to > PS on an a4 medium (hence the actual magazine pages are centered > inside the a4 paper, with crop marks attached to them). ah, OK, i understand. In fact I think I want that too! but no, I dont know how to do it.... sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 10:16:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29028 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:16:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21328 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:28:53 -0500 Received: from portal.aerojet.com (portal.aerojet.com [192.149.4.254]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA21325 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:28:51 -0500 Received: (smapu@localhost) by portal.aerojet.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA00126; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:28:29 -0800 Received: from mail1-az.aerojet.com(159.4.1.8) by portal.aerojet.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000100; Thu Dec 17 08:27:56 1998 Received: from azu-public1.aes.com ([159.4.100.109]) by radon.aes.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA1276229 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:21:11 -0800 Received: by azu-public1.aes.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:27:56 -0800 Message-ID: From: MARK.WROTH@aerojet.com (Wroth, Mark) To: "'pdftex@tug.org'" Subject: Rotation limits on pdf graphics using includegraphics ? Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:27:55 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk First of all, greetings, as this is my first post to this list. I recently upgraded pdfTeX to take advantage of the pdf graphics inclusion capabilities. I've run into an odd behavior (or at least it appears odd to me); I can rotate an included graphic using \includegraphic[angle=x]{foo.pdf} but... angles between (apparently) 0 and 180 work as expected angles between 0 and -90 both rotate and distort the graphic angles greater than 180 or <= -90 produce a thin vertical line at the left margin (only) The subject arises because I have a graphic which needs to be rotated 270 degrees for correct orientation (FWIW, it started out in landscape mode). I've solved the immediate problem by regenerating the graphic in a different orientation, but I'm curious; is this expected behavior, or have I run into a bug? From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 10:22:29 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29170 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:22:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21437 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:42:30 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21434 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:42:18 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id QAA21710; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:40:57 GMT Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:40:57 GMT Message-Id: <199812171640.QAA21710@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> (message from Thierry Bouche on Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:36:48 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > But still i'd like to know whether what i > want (putting printable things out of a PDF page, that will not be > clipped off when i export as PS) requires some 'PS passthrough' > magics, or is possible with current pdftex. yes and yes I think. I think you should be able to do the cropmarks >From pdftex as a \pdfliteral that draws the marks using _postscript_ in such a way they only show up if sent to PS RIP rather than a pdf one. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 10:32:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29449 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21579 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:57:47 -0500 Received: from top.coli.uni-sb.de (IDENT:i7eGEe0H5CSaMGRvPNJFy/MQyDhsUEt0@top.coli.uni-sb.de [134.96.68.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21559 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:55:49 -0500 Received: from top (crysmann@top [134.96.68.10]) by top.coli.uni-sb.de (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA24125 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:55:20 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <36793777.4998@coli.uni-sb.de> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:55:19 +0100 From: Berthold Crysmann Organization: Graduiertenkolleg Kognitionswissenschaft, Universitaet des Saarlandes X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199812171640.QAA21710@nag.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote: > > > But still i'd like to know whether what i > > want (putting printable things out of a PDF page, that will not be > > clipped off when i export as PS) requires some 'PS passthrough' > > magics, or is possible with current pdftex. > > yes and yes I think. I think you should be able to do the cropmarks > from pdftex as a \pdfliteral that draws the marks using _postscript_ > in such a way they only show up if sent to PS RIP rather than a pdf one. > If these kind of things are possible, would it not be useful to make much more heavy use of it in style files like hyperref? Another application would be to use colored links "PDF-only", so one does not get strange rasterised text... Also, backlinks could be deactivated in the printout. -- Berthold Crysmann Universitaet des Saarlandes, Computerlinguistik Geb. 17.2, Postfach 151150, D-66041 Saarbruecken Tel. +49-681-302-4502 / Fax +49-681-302-4700 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 10:38:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29606 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:38:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21451 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:43:35 -0500 Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21448 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:43:33 -0500 Received: from pviton (ts30-6.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.109]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA09686; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:43:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981217114503.0097ab50@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: pviton@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:45:03 -0400 To: pdftex@tug.org From: "Philip A. Viton" Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more In-Reply-To: <3678FD57.D92DCAC6@mail.usyd.edu.au> References: <3.0.2.32.19981216103822.009137a0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk This may be right: in my case, the Kinch versions of the cm TTF fonts are "registered" with Windows, though not in the \fonts directory (and in fact the TTFONTS entry in texmf.cnf doesn't refer to the windows directory at all). On the other hand, the Bakoma version isn't either registered or in the \fonts directory; and it still has the missing-ligs problem (in this case I insert the full path to the font file in the .map file entry). But since the Bakoma font has the same fontname as the Kinch font, maybe Kinch is taking precedence? Is there any reason why TTFs couldn't be treated essentially the way pfb fonts are treated - ie ignoring windows registration completely? After all, all one wants to do is to insert the encoding vector plus (parts of) the binary into the .pdf file. At 11:47 PM 12/17/98 +1100, you wrote: > > >"Philip A. Viton" wrote: >> >> I've done a bit of experimenting here, and it looks to me as if the encoding >> vector is not being handled properly for TT fonts (WinNT4; AcroReader3.01; >> pdftex 12r): >> >> a. with the relevant line of cm.map reading >> >> cmr10 Cmr10 <> >> the pdf document shows no ligs; fhe File/DocInfo/Fonts listing shows >> cmr10 as a truetype font with encoding "builtin", which is surely wrong? >> >> b. this is not specific to the Kinch version of the tt fonts: the tt >> version of the Bakoma fonts have the same problem. >> >> c. for comparison, using a pfb version of cmr10, the ligs display correctly; >> under Font Info the encoding is listed as "custom". >> >> So if the TT version lists the encoding as "builtin", while PFB shows >> "custom" maybe that's the source of the problem? (Or maybe I don't >> understand encodings?) >> >> At 03:24 PM 12/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >> > >> >Can anyone confirm whether pdftex 12r correctly re-encodes true-type (TT) >> >fonts? I'm using the system with the TT fonts from Kinch (TrueTeX) and >> >can't get the cmr ligatures to display. >> > >> >pdftex finds the TT fonts and the encoding vector cmtext.enc; but the >> >ligatures show up as empty boxes. processing the test file through pdftex >> >with \pdfoutput=0 gives the correct results, if that's any help. >> > >> >Also, the message about pdftex at cstug refers to the file enc-note from >> >Petr Oslak - this doesn't seem to be on the system, or did I miss it? >> > >> >Philip A. Viton >> >------------------ >> >City Planning, Ohio State University >> >viton.1@osu.edu >> > >> > >> > > >I have found that the BaKoMa ttf versions of the cm fonts work fairly >well, almost all glyphs displaying correctly, PROVIDED that the fonts >are >not "installed" on my system. i.e. if the ttf files are not in >my Windows\fonts directory, then it's OK. When the ttf files are in the >Windows\fonts directory then the glyphs in positions 0 to 31 don't >display properly with acrobat reader 3.01. With ghostview, however, >everything is OK whether or not the fonts are installed. So it's my >belief that the problem is with acrobat reader, not pdftex, and I >eagerly await acrobat 4.0. > >Actually, at present I'm seeing a problem with emdash's appearing >where endash's should, and vice versa. I remember having this problem >with some other true-type fonts a while ago, and so it's possible that >I changed something and forgot to change it back. But I'd be interested >to know if you witness this phenomenon. > >The cm ttf fonts work better than most other ttf fonts that I've tried, >but probably only because they only have glyphs in positions 0 to 127. >With other ttf fonts I generally find a handful of glyphs in positions >128 to 255 not displaying correctly. I believe that Thanh has spent a >lot of time trying to fix it, but again I believe that it's a bug >in acrobat reader that's the problem. Things are usually better >with GSview. > >Bob Howlett > > > ------------------------ Philip A. Viton City Planning, Ohio State University 190 W. 17th Ave,Columbus OH 43210 viton.1@osu.edu From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 10:49:35 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29841 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:49:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA21568 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:56:39 -0500 Received: from acsu.buffalo.edu (qmailr@mailhub.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.40]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA21565 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:56:38 -0500 Received: (qmail 17378 invoked from network); 17 Dec 1998 16:56:31 -0000 Received: from ubppp-247-051.ppp-net.buffalo.edu (HELO acsu.buffalo.edu) (128.205.247.51) by mailhub with SMTP; 17 Dec 1998 16:56:31 -0000 Message-ID: <367937AD.1E40D7C2@acsu.buffalo.edu> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:56:13 -0500 From: Idris S Hamid X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: SGML to PDF (or at least LaTeX) References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.10027.468598.52988@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Dear folks: I would like to convert some sgml documents to PDF. Does anyone know of a program that can convert sgml source to LaTeX source? From there I can add the commands needed to create pdflatex document. Looking at sgml source tells me that it must not be too hard to do.... thanks Idris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 11:02:22 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00151 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:02:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA22100 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:33:01 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22094 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:32:54 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id RAA23650; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:29:12 GMT Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:29:12 GMT Message-Id: <199812171729.RAA23650@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: MARK.WROTH@aerojet.com CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: (MARK.WROTH@aerojet.com) Subject: Re: Rotation limits on pdf graphics using includegraphics ? References: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I've run into an odd behavior (or at least it > appears odd to me); You need to get the latest pdftex.def from the www.tug.org/pdftex the negation of `-foo' was getting written as --foo rather than foo which isn't valid pdf. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 11:32:22 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00988 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:32:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA22465 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:55:12 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22461 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:55:09 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA23481; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:55:00 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id TAA16973; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:02:15 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:02:15 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199812171802.TAA16973@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Berthold Crysmann Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? In-Reply-To: <36793777.4998@coli.uni-sb.de> References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199812171640.QAA21710@nag.co.uk> <36793777.4998@coli.uni-sb.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk » Another application would be to use colored links "PDF-only", so one » does not get strange rasterised text... Also, backlinks could be » deactivated in the printout. great ideas ! also animations or sound tracks would be replaced by some TV interlude screen « due to some unexpected media unability, please sing yourself any funny tune, here (or play yourself the missing scene) » Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 12:05:41 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01829 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:05:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA22797 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:20:33 -0500 Received: from next.aps.org ([149.28.3.7]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA22794 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:20:32 -0500 Received: (from doyle@localhost) by next.aps.org (8.8.7/8.8.2) id NAA18946 for pdftex@tug.org; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:19:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812171819.NAA18946@next.aps.org> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) In-Reply-To: <199812171802.TAA16973@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 2.0b6) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Mark Doyle Date: Thu, 17 Dec 98 13:19:11 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? Reply-To: doyle@aps.org References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199812171640.QAA21710@nag.co.uk> <36793777.4998@coli.uni-sb.de> <199812171802.TAA16973@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Thierry Bouche wrote: > > Another application would be to use colored links "PDF-only", so one > > does not get strange rasterised text... Also, backlinks could be > > deactivated in the printout. > > great ideas ! The hyper version of dvips outputs /pdfm commands that hps.pro then defines to be the proper /pdfmark in the distiller, but otherwise to behave differently if the PostScript is being interpreted in a a hyper-aware PS viewer (hyperghostview) or in a standard PS RIP. Some inspiration may be found there. Tanmoy Bhattacharya was the one behind the original design and implementation of hps.pro. Cheers, Mark From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 12:59:34 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03155 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:59:33 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA23111 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:21:15 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken97.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA23108 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:21:13 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.152]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26087; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:17:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <367958D6.438A3373@apl.washington.edu> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:17:42 -0800 From: Jody Klymak Organization: APL/UW X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sebastian Rahtz CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: *.sty for PDF publishing (AGU++?) References: <19981216141917.C10643@informatics.muni.cz> <3677F6C2.1806842B@apl.washington.edu> <13944.53088.917520.650248@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > b) I'd recommend reading the Context documentation, as I guess Hans is > the furthest ahead in this area. Which I seem to have lost my bookmark to. Thanks for the suggestions. They sound about right. Cheers, Jody -- Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu University of Washington (206)-685-9080 http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 13:38:40 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04080 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 13:38:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA23410 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:06:13 -0500 Received: from portal.aerojet.com (portal.aerojet.com [192.149.4.254]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA23407 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:06:09 -0500 Received: (smapu@localhost) by portal.aerojet.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA06777; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:06:03 -0800 Received: from mail1-az.aerojet.com(159.4.1.8) by portal.aerojet.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006756; Thu Dec 17 12:05:13 1998 Received: from azu-public1.aes.com ([159.4.100.109]) by radon.aes.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA1272471; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:58:28 -0800 Received: by azu-public1.aes.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:05:12 -0800 Message-ID: From: MARK.WROTH@aerojet.com (Wroth, Mark) To: "'David Carlisle'" , "Wroth, Mark" Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: RE: Rotation limits on pdf graphics using includegraphics ? Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:05:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk That fixed at least part of the anomaly, but broke the viewport command I was using ... I now get a "no clipping support in pdftex" warning. Sigh. Thank you, though. -----Original Message----- From: David Carlisle [mailto:davidc@nag.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 9:29 AM To: MARK.WROTH@aerojet.com Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Rotation limits on pdf graphics using includegraphics ? > I've run into an odd behavior (or at least it > appears odd to me); You need to get the latest pdftex.def from the www.tug.org/pdftex the negation of `-foo' was getting written as --foo rather than foo which isn't valid pdf. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Dec 17 17:36:52 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09296 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:36:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA23909 for pdftex-list; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:04:51 -0500 Received: from uakron.edu (uakron.edu [130.101.5.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA23906 for ; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:04:49 -0500 Received: from default (michigan29-81.infoserv.uakron.edu [130.101.2.81]) by uakron.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA02510; Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:04:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812180004.TAA02510@uakron.edu> From: "D. P. Story" Organization: The University of Akron To: Jody Klymak Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:00:08 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: *.sty for PDF publishing (AGU++?) Reply-to: story@uakron.edu CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <367958D6.438A3373@apl.washington.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I have a basic style file called web.sty that might be a starting point for developing your own. See http://www.math.uakron.edu/~dpstory/latx2pdf.html This is the article, "Using LaTeX to Create Quality PDF Documents for the WWW." On 17 Dec 98, at 11:17, Jody Klymak wrote: > > Cheers, Jody > > -- > Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, > mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu University of Washington > (206)-685-9080 > http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ > dps Dr. D. P. Story dpstory@uakron.edu http://www.math.uakron.edu/~dpstory/ Dept of Mathematics and Computer Science / University of Akron / Akron, Ohio 44325 AcroTeX Web Site: http://www.math.uakron.edu/~dpstory/acrotex.html Site Includes: e-Calculus, Algebra Review in Ten Lessons, Mathematics Games, Pdfmarks:Links & Forms, Using LaTeX to Create Quality PDF Documents for the WWW, and much, much more. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 01:19:38 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18672 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:19:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA24331 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:46:09 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id CAA24328 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:46:07 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl by relay.surfnet.nl with SN-SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:45:53 +0100 Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J5H6T48FBK00ANJD@wkap.nl>; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:45:52 +0100 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:46:14 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more In-reply-to: <3.0.2.32.19981217114503.0097ab50@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> To: "Philip A. Viton" Cc: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13946.5718.848799.562624@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <3.0.2.32.19981216103822.009137a0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> <3.0.2.32.19981217114503.0097ab50@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Philip A. Viton wrote: > Is there any reason why TTFs couldn't be treated essentially the way pfb > fonts are treated - ie ignoring windows registration completely? After all, > all one wants to do is to insert the encoding vector plus (parts of) the > binary into the .pdf file. This is what ghostscript does and this explains why GS is OK while the Reader isn't. For the Reader, *any* locally installed font takes precedence over the one included in the PDF doc. This is true on all systems the Reader runs on, and Adobe considers this to be a feature. Unfortunately, the decision the Reader makes whether or not the local font is the same as the included one is almost solely based on the name of the font. For instance, Kinch' TTFs take precedence over included Y&Y PS versions. For PS fonts, the Reader/ATM does a reasonable job reencoding etc., but for TTF fonts it has to rely on Windows itself to do-the-right- thing. As we all know, Windows hardly ever does-the-right-thing, so this is where the trouble starts. Windows re-encodes the installed fonts on startup, and it refuses to use chars 0..32 and 160 at that stage. If a font is loaded later by a program, Windows can be forced into believing a font is actually symbolic instead of a text font, and then it is willing to use 1..31. But then it's too late for fonts that were already loaded. Windows positively hates char 0, and I think char 32 *has* to be _space_; 160 *has* to be _nbspace_. The only reliable workaround I have found so far is deleting all TTF files from my Windows installation and never ever using TTFs in PDF docs. Your luck may vary, and it might even work OK if you use a Windows program to create your PDF (through the pdfdumper), but if you need a TTF in TeX I'd strongly advise to convert the font to Type1 first. Using ATM 4.0 helps as well (put all TTFs in a disabled group and turn off auto-activation), but not in all cases. Greetings, Taco -- Taco Hoekwater taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl Kluwer Academic Publishers -- Pre Press -- Achterom 119, 3311 KB Dordrecht, The Netherlands tel. 31-78-6392550 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 01:47:58 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA19124 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:47:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA24484 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:17:58 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA24481 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:17:57 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.26]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA7DA; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:17:44 +0100 Message-ID: <367938CE.969DC0E4@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:01:02 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Bouche CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche wrote: > the PDF files produced from Xpress + distiller with cropmarks > have their cropmarks out of the viewable part of the PDF, but they do > reappear if I print to PS. Maybe they're defined as PS specific code and only show up when printing to a PS device. (See datasource PS pdfmark documentation.) > from the PDF. this prevents using pdftex as a better prepress engine > (resolution independant, better handling of subset type 1 fonts, > revolutionnary justification mechanisms in the future...) that > tex+dvips. I think it's a matter of mediabox/cropbox hackery, which is not the same as boundingboxes in PS. It's one of the more fuzzy features of pdf, and a rather poor model. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 02:48:39 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20414 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:48:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA24872 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:09:01 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA24869 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:09:00 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.109]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4847; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:08:26 +0100 Message-ID: <367A12ED.19FAE0BB@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:31:41 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Berthold Crysmann CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199812171640.QAA21710@nag.co.uk> <36793777.4998@coli.uni-sb.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Berthold Crysmann wrote: > Another application would be to use colored links "PDF-only", so one > does not get strange rasterised text... Also, backlinks could be > deactivated in the printout. Yes. We proposed to to our adobe EU contacts back in 96 but nobody seems to see the benefit in this. I even have something running that works reasonable well on ps printers, but I never saw a real reason for including it in the public releases of context. We nearly always generate two versions of a document, one for screen and one for A4 paper. Makes more sense. There are, btw some complications in this, for instance when relative positioning is used, where you cannot simple omit things. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 02:49:08 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20427 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:49:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA24866 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:08:41 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA24863 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:08:40 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.109]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA39FC; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:08:36 +0100 Message-ID: <367A167B.532EF6FC@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:46:51 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wroth, Mark" CC: "'David Carlisle'" , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Rotation limits on pdf graphics using includegraphics ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Wroth, Mark wrote: > That fixed at least part of the anomaly, but broke the viewport command > I was using ... I now get a "no clipping support in pdftex" warning. > Sigh. should be: "no clipping support (yet)" or something like that, because a few weeks ago I wrote clipping support for pdftex. Will probably be in one of the next context releases (but first I want to work out a decent higher level clipping/zooming scheme). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 02:51:42 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA20502 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:51:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA24855 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:08:25 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA24852 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:08:24 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.109]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6161; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:08:21 +0100 Message-ID: <367A115D.14CF43BA@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:25:01 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Bouche CC: Sebastian Rahtz , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche wrote: > Your answer makes me realize that i could readily do 2 PDF files, one > a4 with crop marks visible, the other one for electronic delivery, > instead of one PDF/one PS. But still i'd like to know whether what i > want (putting printable things out of a PDF page, that will not be > clipped off when i export as PS) requires some 'PS passthrough' > magics, or is possible with current pdftex. > Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. As far as I can see, you have access to all relevant datastructure mediabox & cropbox, so given the right macros, it is possible. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 03:11:54 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA20885 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:11:53 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA25093 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:30:41 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA25090 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:30:39 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.109]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAA54; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:30:16 +0100 Message-ID: <367A2104.EECD582A@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:31:48 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater CC: "Philip A. Viton" , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more References: <3.0.2.32.19981216103822.009137a0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> <3.0.2.32.19981217114503.0097ab50@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> <13946.5718.848799.562624@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > This is what ghostscript does and this explains why GS is OK while the > Reader isn't. For the Reader, *any* locally installed font takes > precedence over the one included in the PDF doc. This is true on all > systems the Reader runs on, and Adobe considers this to be a feature. So, maybe it makes sense to let pdftex change the embedded fontnames into random ones (or using random prefixes), not only for the logical names, but also for all id's used in the font descriptors, Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 03:33:39 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21204 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:33:37 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA25082 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:29:53 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA25079 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:29:51 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27016 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:29:46 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA27952 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:29:44 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199812180929.KAA27952@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: hz -- very first result To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:29:44 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, here is the very first testing result of hz implementation in pdftex-0.12s. This is one-page document with three columns: the left one is normal TeX output, the midle one is normal output but adjusted after breaking parragraph into lines and the right one is produced with hz modification. The input source is included. Thanh begin 644 t.zip M4$L#!!0 ( "U1DB64?*8!D0, $ ' % ! ="YT97A56 P QQMZ-L8; M>C91+60 G56Q DL29Q!@ % MV8SG_CUO05F6YRXIHD8$B'V[^]Y;L)EL9^(X)YR$1':KI-P_;$P0@U0W9_"[4+'5S8-( =8G*]"T<9 9DD MF"%/;%SH-XV/H6^L=$V1Y_*RAAYW1P02T5TFIA1'#MBUY#GT,_>RI3^=E,"C M9"&>)N&4J43R$BRYDL5WE(2M\PNV%29]7%+)H;LK"2JKT8)%2G/TQ13H2XF^J4V MB538Q?\%]K=0D0P'8N^C8:0PT0I-,3NM+FM,&80^?FA=(:5)*(B!)IR6BLW& M(*-8!?)2BJ#YFH4SQ;35Z$!3BB>4B/I'8:!JX)QEY4D12T'%>@RQ;D? 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end From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 03:45:20 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21390 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:45:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA25311 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:50:14 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA25308 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:50:12 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29553 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:50:02 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA29707 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:50:00 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199812180950.KAA29707@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:50:00 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I cannot add anything extra than what has been mentioned by Taco. Just for those who want to convert TTF to T1 but don't have a font editor for that purpose, there is a ttf-to-t1 convertor at http://quadrant.netspace.net.au/~mark/ttf2pt1/, which can be used for quick convertion from TTF to T1. This program is not very good, but it produces valid t1 fonts. Thanh PS: I don't expect any changes concerning to TTF handling in Acrobat Reader, at least in 4.0 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 04:12:39 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA21905 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:12:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA25581 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:11:24 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25575 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:11:20 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02686; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:11:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA01880; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:11:11 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199812181011.LAA01880@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more In-Reply-To: <367A2104.EECD582A@wxs.nl> from Hans Hagen at "Dec 18, 98 10:31:48 am" To: pragma@wxs.nl (Hans Hagen) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:11:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Taco Hoekwater wrote: > > > This is what ghostscript does and this explains why GS is OK while the > > Reader isn't. For the Reader, *any* locally installed font takes > > precedence over the one included in the PDF doc. This is true on all > > systems the Reader runs on, and Adobe considers this to be a feature. > > So, maybe it makes sense to let pdftex change the embedded fontnames > into random ones (or using random prefixes), not only for the logical > names, but also for all id's used in the font descriptors, I did it in earlier version, but it didn't help. So I've removed this feature >From 0.12r. In fact Acrobat Reader has problem with TT fonts that have not been installed as well. The only solution seems to be that AcroReader stops using TTF rendering mechanism of Windows. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 04:26:53 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA22162 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:26:52 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA25816 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:39:25 -0500 Received: from calvin.info.unicaen.fr (calvin.info.unicaen.fr [193.55.128.51]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA25813 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:39:22 -0500 Received: from info.unicaen.fr (hypatia [193.55.128.16]) by calvin.info.unicaen.fr (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id LAA03591 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:39:13 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <367A3EB5.7882A218@info.unicaen.fr> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:38:29 +0000 From: Jerzy Karczmarczuk Organization: University of Caen, France X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.6 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: fr-FR, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: SGML to PDF (or at least LaTeX) References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.10027.468598.52988@srahtz> <367937AD.1E40D7C2@acsu.buffalo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Idris S Hamid : > > Dear folks: > I would like to convert some sgml documents to PDF. Does anyone know of a > program that can convert sgml source to LaTeX source? From there I can add > the commands needed to create pdflatex document. Looking at sgml source > tells me that it must not be too hard to do.... > > thanks > Idris I think that you should start searching here: http://www.oasis-open.org/cover/publicSW.html#conversion You will find here a plethora of tools, e.g. the package of Jörg Wittenberger http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~jw6/doc/typeset/ You will need Scheme to run it (sdc). === Another interesting initiative: http://www.sgmltools.org/ Jerzy Karczmarczuk Caen, France. =========== PS. [Different topic] Answering to a posting which asked about dynamic fonts, I mildly suggested that somebody might format Arabic lines manually from right to left. (Actually one of my students did that a few years ago...) We got then three very competent comments, and their authors pointed out that what I have said was crazy... Indeed. Please, please... I am not *as* crazy as that. I wanted *only* to point out that the multilinguistic documents rendering cannot be reduced to font problems. I am sorry for the useless trivialities. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Dec 18 16:25:43 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA09312 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:25:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA27246 for pdftex-list; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:51:00 -0500 Received: from nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.21]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA27243 for ; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:50:57 -0500 Received: from sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de by nx5.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (PP) with ESMTP; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:50:33 +0100 Received: from rigel.univie.ac.at (dial-143148.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.143.148]) by sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02201; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:50:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (from sx0005@localhost) by rigel.univie.ac.at (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA14546; Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:17:09 +0100 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:17:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199812181817.TAA14546@rigel.univie.ac.at> X-Authentication-Warning: rigel.univie.ac.at: sx0005 set sender to sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de using -f From: Werner LEMBERG To: thanh@informatics.muni.cz CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <199812180950.KAA29707@anxur.fi.muni.cz> (message from Han The Thanh on Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:50:00 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more Reply-to: Werner LEMBERG References: <199812180950.KAA29707@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I cannot add anything extra than what has been mentioned by Taco. Just for those who want to convert TTF to T1 but don't have a font editor for that purpose, there is a ttf-to-t1 convertor at http://quadrant.netspace.net.au/~mark/ttf2pt1/, which can be used for quick convertion from TTF to T1. This program is not very good, but it produces valid t1 fonts. BTW, a TTF to PS Type 42 converter has appeared recently: ftp://ftp.giga.or.at/pub/nih/ttftot42 Werner From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Dec 20 11:35:50 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22882 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 11:35:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA29156 for pdftex-list; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:49:06 -0500 Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29153 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:49:05 -0500 Received: from pviton (ts42-2.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.115.105]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA12829; Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:49:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981220125010.00977100@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: pviton@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:50:10 -0400 To: pdftex@tug.org From: "Philip A. Viton" Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more In-Reply-To: <199812181011.LAA01880@anxur.fi.muni.cz> References: <367A2104.EECD582A@wxs.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk That's interesting - are we sure it doesn't work? The reason I ask is that I took a tiny file with some ligs, printed the dvi to disk using the Windows printer driver for the HP 4/4MPlus PS printer, and ran the result through the Distiller. The pdf created this way displays properly; inside the file the font entries look like (for the case of the real font dcbx10.ttf, which is installed under my Windows system): %!FontType1-1.0: ANPHHM+dcbx10084 1 13 dict begin /FontName /ANPHHM+dcbx10084 def /FontType 1 def /FontBBox {-122 -635 2391 1850} readonly def /FontMatrix [0.00049 0 0 0.00049 0 0] readonly def /PaintType 0 def /FontInfo 12 dict dup begin /FullName (FontMonger:dcbx10) def /FamilyName (dcbx10) def /ItalicAngle 0 def /isFixedPitch false def /UnderlinePosition 0 def /UnderlineThickness 0 def /Weight (Book) def /BaseFontName (dcbx10084) def end def which looks like it may be implementing Taco's suggestion. At 11:11 AM 12/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >> Taco Hoekwater wrote: >> >> > This is what ghostscript does and this explains why GS is OK while the >> > Reader isn't. For the Reader, *any* locally installed font takes >> > precedence over the one included in the PDF doc. This is true on all >> > systems the Reader runs on, and Adobe considers this to be a feature. >> >> So, maybe it makes sense to let pdftex change the embedded fontnames >> into random ones (or using random prefixes), not only for the logical >> names, but also for all id's used in the font descriptors, > >I did it in earlier version, but it didn't help. So I've removed this feature >from 0.12r. In fact Acrobat Reader has problem with TT fonts that have not been >installed as well. The only solution seems to be that AcroReader stops using TTF >rendering mechanism of Windows. > >Thanh > > ------------------------ Philip A. Viton City Planning, Ohio State University 190 W. 17th Ave,Columbus OH 43210 viton.1@osu.edu From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 21 02:10:36 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA07755 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 02:10:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA29828 for pdftex-list; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 03:22:20 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA29825 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 03:22:18 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21954; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:22:16 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA01708; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:22:10 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199812210822.JAA01708@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex + truetype + reencoding : more In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19981220125010.00977100@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> from "Philip A. Viton" at "Dec 20, 98 12:50:10 pm" To: pviton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Philip A. Viton) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:22:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > That's interesting - are we sure it doesn't work? The reason I ask is that > I took a tiny file with some ligs, printed the dvi to disk using the > Windows printer driver for the HP 4/4MPlus PS printer, and ran the result > through the Distiller. The pdf created this way displays properly; inside > the file the font entries look like (for the case of the real font > dcbx10.ttf, which is installed under my Windows system): > > > %!FontType1-1.0: ANPHHM+dcbx10084 1 > 13 dict begin > /FontName /ANPHHM+dcbx10084 def > /FontType 1 def > /FontBBox {-122 -635 2391 1850} readonly def > /FontMatrix [0.00049 0 0 0.00049 0 0] readonly def > /PaintType 0 def > /FontInfo 12 dict dup begin > /FullName (FontMonger:dcbx10) def > /FamilyName (dcbx10) def > /ItalicAngle 0 def > /isFixedPitch false def > /UnderlinePosition 0 def > /UnderlineThickness 0 def > /Weight (Book) def > /BaseFontName (dcbx10084) def > end def the point is the TT font has been converted to T1 by the printing driver. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 21 10:14:30 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16888 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:14:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA30725 for pdftex-list; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:27:24 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA30722 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:27:22 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:27:15 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA02391; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:27:03 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:27:02 +0000 (GMT) To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: preamble for pdftex-documents In-Reply-To: <199812171327.NAA06654@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> References: <199812171327.NAA06654@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13950.30326.262490.745996@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian > example.tex is plain TeX; i guess you are a LaTeX user. Do we need a simple test/example file for pdflatex? Or is everyone using context by now (well, I can always hope:-). chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 21 10:20:48 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17074 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:20:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA30766 for pdftex-list; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:45:21 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken76.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA30763 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:45:19 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.97.152]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09217; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:45:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <367E7B15.FD6B271C@apl.washington.edu> Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:45:09 -0800 From: Jody Klymak Organization: APL/UW X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: preamble for pdftex-documents References: <199812171327.NAA06654@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> <13950.30326.262490.745996@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I don't think it is a comprehensive test, but you can try a non-simple example: http://tug.org/applications/pdftex/pdfTeX-FAQ.tex Chris Rowley wrote: > > Sebastian > > > example.tex is plain TeX; i guess you are a LaTeX user. > > Do we need a simple test/example file for pdflatex? > > Or is everyone using context by now (well, I can always hope:-). > > chris -- Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu University of Washington (206)-685-9080 http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 21 10:49:42 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA17944 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:49:35 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA30850 for pdftex-list; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:00:19 -0500 Received: from mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.30]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA30847 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:00:17 -0500 Received: from pviton (paviton.crp.ohio-state.edu [128.146.236.202]) by mail1.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA26884 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:00:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981221120424.00936a70@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: pviton@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:04:24 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org From: "Philip A. Viton" Subject: tfm files Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Does pdftex use tfm files in pdf-mode? I ran it with kpathsea debug on, and couldn't see any reference to them; but there was a lot of output and I may have missed something. Philip A. Viton ------------------ City Planning, Ohio State University viton.1@osu.edu From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 21 11:20:28 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA18845 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:20:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA31066 for pdftex-list; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:40:13 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA31063 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:40:10 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13229; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:36:44 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id SAA21521; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:44:35 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 18:44:35 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199812211744.SAA21521@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Chris Rowley Cc: Sebastian Rahtz , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: preamble for pdftex-documents In-Reply-To: <13950.30326.262490.745996@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199812171327.NAA06654@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> <13950.30326.262490.745996@fell.open.ac.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk » Do we need a simple test/example file for pdflatex? no. \documentclass[pdftex]{article} is the typical header of one. Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. (context user as of 2001) From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 21 12:57:23 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA21488 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:57:22 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA31464 for pdftex-list; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:19:09 -0500 Received: from aida.inet.cz (root@aida.inet.cz [194.196.192.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA31461 for ; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:19:06 -0500 Received: from SnowWhite.inet.cz (IDENT:pavel@SnowWhite.inet.cz [194.196.192.9]) by aida.inet.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA13913; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:17:38 +0100 Received: (from pavel@localhost) by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11532; Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:17:24 +0100 To: "Philip A. Viton" Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: tfm files References: <3.0.2.32.19981221120424.00936a70@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Operating-System: Linux 2.1.131 on Intel, Linux 2.0.36 on SPARC Organization: INET a.s., Kralovopolska 139, Brno, 60112, Czech Republic X-URL-PGP: http://www.inet.cz/~pjanik X-Phone: +420 5 41321276 ext. 171, +420 5 41321251 ext. 17 X-Spam: No unsolicited e-mail. 500 dollars per message proof-reading for unsolicited e-mail. X-Not-Receiving-Mail-From: mrp.cz, hotmail.com, post.cz, email.cz, usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 From: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: 21 Dec 1998 20:17:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Philip A. Viton"'s message of Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:04:24 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk From: "Philip A. Viton" Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:04:24 -0500 Hi, > Does pdftex use tfm files in pdf-mode? I ran it with kpathsea debug on, and > couldn't see any reference to them; but there was a lot of output and I may > have missed something. of course - pdfTeX must read tfm to see metrics info about font. Try: strace pdftex example.tex 2>&1|grep "\.tfm" well, if you're running some OS. -- Pavel Janík ml. Pavel.Janik@inet.cz From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Dec 22 03:43:50 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22928 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:43:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA32364 for pdftex-list; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:02:57 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA32361 for ; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:02:56 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.58]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA5286; Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:02:48 +0100 Message-ID: <367F5B10.AE897D29@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:40:48 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Sebastian Rahtz , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: preamble for pdftex-documents References: <199812171327.NAA06654@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> <13950.30326.262490.745996@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > example.tex is plain TeX; i guess you are a LaTeX user. > > Do we need a simple test/example file for pdflatex? > > Or is everyone using context by now (well, I can always hope:-). To answer the question for context: I think for context the best example files are the presentation styles (next month or so I will reorganize them a bit; so then context users will have 5 different pdf presentation environments). The probably simplest test file is the pdftex manual, which from now on is typeset using context, but I'm not sure what the policy is on that one (source distribution or pdf only). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 23 13:58:45 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05236 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:58:44 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01965 for pdftex-list; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:15:43 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA01962 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:15:41 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:15:33 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA17867; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:15:18 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:15:17 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Sebastian Rahtz , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: preamble for pdftex-documents In-Reply-To: <367F5B10.AE897D29@wxs.nl> References: <199812171327.NAA06654@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> <13950.30326.262490.745996@fell.open.ac.uk> <367F5B10.AE897D29@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13953.20214.149139.460331@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans Hagen wrote -- > > I think for context the best example files are the presentation styles > (next month or so I will reorganize them a bit; so then context users > will have 5 different pdf presentation environments). > > The probably simplest test file is the pdftex manual, which from now on > is typeset using context, but I'm not sure what the policy is on that > one (source distribution or pdf only). Err, I was thinking of something a little shorter; a basic test, not a comprehensive test. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 23 14:05:25 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05402 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:05:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA01988 for pdftex-list; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:28:09 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA01985 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:28:07 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:28:02 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA17928; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:27:47 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 20:27:46 +0000 (GMT) To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: pdftex@tug.org, jd01@swt.edu Subject: Re: Non-member submission from ["Julio G. Dix" ] In-Reply-To: <13943.56354.129808.759392@srahtz> References: <199812161607.LAA17942@tug.org> <13943.56354.129808.759392@srahtz> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13953.20949.725082.283742@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian > PDF annotations use a fixed encoding and font. Hmmm, approx. > The text is not processed by TeX at all. Errr, mmmm? I thought we had eventually found out that it is: maybe you need that technical documentation as much as i do! chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Dec 23 14:09:56 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05518 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 14:09:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA02033 for pdftex-list; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:36:04 -0500 Received: from www4.gmx.net (qmailr@www4.gmx.net [195.63.104.44]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA02030 for ; Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:36:02 -0500 Received: (qmail 17691 invoked by uid 65534); 23 Dec 1998 20:35:51 -0000 Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 21:35:44 +0100 (MET) From: Gerhard Kliche To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Search for german umlaute in pdf using Acrobat Reader X-Authenticated-Sender: #0000281053@gmx.net X-Authenticated-IP: [129.69.189.183] Message-Id: <17602.914445344@www.gmx.net> X-Mailer: WWW-Mail 1.02a/b (Global Message Exchange) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I've created pdf-files of german texts usinf pdftex in the miktex-distribution 1.11. In viewing my files with Acrobat Reader 3.0 (german version) I noticed that words containing german umlaute (ä, ö, ü) are not found by the Acrobat Search (Suchen) function. Is this a problem of the embedded fonts and how is it to be solved ? Gerhard Kliche gerhard.kliche@gmx.net --- Sent through Global Message Exchange - http://www.gmx.net From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 28 02:11:52 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22403 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:11:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA04747 for pdftex-list; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:30:38 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA04744 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:30:36 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.65]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAD91; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:30:13 +0100 Message-ID: <3682633C.3633433E@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:52:28 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Sebastian Rahtz , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: preamble for pdftex-documents References: <199812171327.NAA06654@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> <13950.30326.262490.745996@fell.open.ac.uk> <367F5B10.AE897D29@wxs.nl> <13953.20214.149139.460331@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > Err, I was thinking of something a little shorter; a basic test, not > a comprehensive test. \includeSPQRtex % or whatever latex needs \begin{document} Thank you Thanh. \end{document} Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Dec 28 02:11:56 1998 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA22409 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:11:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA04743 for pdftex-list; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:30:29 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA04740 for ; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 03:30:17 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.65]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2CED; Mon, 28 Dec 1998 09:30:15 +0100 Message-ID: <368264C4.646CB7C1@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:59:00 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Sebastian Rahtz , pdftex@tug.org, jd01@swt.edu Subject: Re: Non-member submission from ["Julio G. Dix" ] References: <199812161607.LAA17942@tug.org> <13943.56354.129808.759392@srahtz> <13953.20949.725082.283742@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > PDF annotations use a fixed encoding and font. > > Hmmm, approx. > > > The text is not processed by TeX at all. > > Errr, mmmm? I thought we had eventually found out that it is: maybe > you need that technical documentation as much as i do! Annotation pdf content (apart from the stuff that goes between \pdfannotlink and \pdfendlink) is not processed at all, and text annotations are handled by the general annotation primitive. Keep in mind that currently there are 4 classes of annotations; 3 can be taken care of by \pdfannot, and \pdfannotlink handles the link case where clickable stuff is translated by tex into rect specs. Clicking concerns areas, and no encoding is involved at all. In general, annotations as present in pdf are rather week with respect to manupulations, you cannot scale them for instance. Absolute positioning is involved, which is why the special case is needed. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 4 04:54:28 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (root@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA27374 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 04:54:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA18008 for pdftex-list; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 05:01:59 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA18005 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 05:01:57 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id JAA14959; hop 0; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:53:07 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:01:06 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13967.42677.344859.282537@srahtz> Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 17:19:49 +0000 (GMT) To: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org, jd01@swt.edu Subject: Re: Non-member submission from ["Julio G. Dix" ] In-Reply-To: <13953.20949.725082.283742@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199812161607.LAA17942@tug.org> <13943.56354.129808.759392@srahtz> <13953.20949.725082.283742@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley writes: > > > PDF annotations use a fixed encoding and font. > > Hmmm, approx. in what sense "approx"? > > The text is not processed by TeX at all. > > Errr, mmmm? I thought we had eventually found out that it is: maybe > you need that technical documentation as much as i do! maybe. but i see no evidence yet to change my statement. can you supply some? sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 4 11:53:04 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06652 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:53:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA20529 for pdftex-list; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:34:16 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20526 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:34:13 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id SAA26314; hop 0; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:25:18 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:56:22 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13968.45019.511070.692215@srahtz> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 12:11:07 +0000 (GMT) To: crysmann@coli.uni-sb.de Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: How to uncrop pages? In-Reply-To: <36793777.4998@coli.uni-sb.de> References: <199812171429.PAA08723@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <13945.6900.820061.873879@srahtz> <199812171536.QAA11430@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199812171640.QAA21710@nag.co.uk> <36793777.4998@coli.uni-sb.de> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Berthold Crysmann writes: > > yes and yes I think. I think you should be able to do the cropmarks > > from pdftex as a \pdfliteral that draws the marks using _postscript_ > > in such a way they only show up if sent to PS RIP rather than a pdf one. > > > > If these kind of things are possible, would it not be useful to make > much more heavy use of it in style files like hyperref? be my guest. I regard hyperref as a collorative effort of which I am editor. any contributions welcome! I should point out that, strange as it may sound, I personally do not make much use of hyperref. It is not used at Elsevier, so far as I know, and I have no production processes using it. I maintain it for my own amusement, so any developments are either user-driven, or curiosity-driven. Sebastian From "Thierry Bouche " Tue Jan 5 11:27:30 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05335 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:23:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12219; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:23:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id TAA17302; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:21:11 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:21:11 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901051821.TAA17302@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: PDFTeX Mailing List CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: OT2cmr.fd X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi, happy new year &c.! As I could not coerce AE's author to include the guillemets from wncyr into the AE fonts as possible alternatives to the EC french guillemets, people are now trying to use them trhough macros. However, they're facing a problem with pdftex (which is the main reason for prefering CM+mlTeX or AE to EC) because the type 1 versions of wncyr fonts have less available pointsizes than the mf versions. I think the problem is with the .fd file: there should maybe be some option somewhere (similar to amslatex's psamsfont) restricting the number of used sizes. This could be made available to all packages through a mechansim like the "lucidascale" option in the lucidabr package. (namely: declaring fonts in the FD through some macro defined there with \providecommand, and tunable from some knowledgeable package). What do you think? Who is responsible for these files? Where should the discussion take place? Thanks! Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/pdfTeX From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 5 11:40:20 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05722 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 11:40:19 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA25785 for pdftex-list; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:23:45 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA25782 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:23:43 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12219; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:23:26 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id TAA17302; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:21:11 +0100 (MET) Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:21:11 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901051821.TAA17302@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: PDFTeX Mailing List CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: OT2cmr.fd X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, happy new year &c.! As I could not coerce AE's author to include the guillemets from wncyr into the AE fonts as possible alternatives to the EC french guillemets, people are now trying to use them trhough macros. However, they're facing a problem with pdftex (which is the main reason for prefering CM+mlTeX or AE to EC) because the type 1 versions of wncyr fonts have less available pointsizes than the mf versions. I think the problem is with the .fd file: there should maybe be some option somewhere (similar to amslatex's psamsfont) restricting the number of used sizes. This could be made available to all packages through a mechansim like the "lucidascale" option in the lucidabr package. (namely: declaring fonts in the FD through some macro defined there with \providecommand, and tunable from some knowledgeable package). What do you think? Who is responsible for these files? Where should the discussion take place? Thanks! Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/pdfTeX From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 18 06:21:21 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA27451 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 06:21:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA14725 for pdftex-list; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:45:14 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA14722 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 07:45:10 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19030 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:45:07 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA27249 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:45:04 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901181245.NAA27249@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: threads To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:45:04 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I am reviewing the implementation of threads. Does anyone use it? Any comments are welcome. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 18 20:02:51 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA14474 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:02:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA16490 for pdftex-list; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:49:58 -0500 Received: from isy.liu.se (root@isy.liu.se [130.236.48.10]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA16487 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:49:56 -0500 Received: from cobra.isy.liu.se.liu.se (cobra.isy.liu.se [130.236.50.210]) by isy.liu.se (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA23017 for ; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:09:12 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost by cobra.isy.liu.se.liu.se (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA09869; Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:09:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 15:09:11 +0100 (MET) From: Erik Frisk Reply-To: Erik Frisk To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: cropping Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by tug.org id VAA16488 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk (I sent this email a few days ago and it didn't seem to appear on the list so I am resending. If any of you recieve it twice, my apologies) I have three questions I couldn't find the answer to in neither any FAQ nor the mailinglist archives. 1) This issue regarding missing characters (especially minus signs, but I also have observed missing paranthesises etc). What is the status? Is this a bug or is there an explaination for this behaviour? Right now I feel somewhat wary when using pdfTeX. 2) I want to crop pages using the hyperref package with the pdfpagescrop option. If I use dvips to create a .ps and distill it, cropping is perfect but if I use pdflatex, no sign of cropping at all. What could I be doing wrong or isn't the pdfpagescrop option supposed to work with pdflatex? 3) I have a problem when creating pdf with distiller. If there are horiz/vertical lines, e.g. in a table or something, the lines appear perfectly if I run the file through pdftex but not when going via .ps and distiller. I need to zoom in quite a bit to make all lines appear correctly (I have tried Acrobat reader on both my UltraSparc and on a WinNT-machine with similar results) Example file can be found at http://www.fs.isy.liu.se/~frisk/pdftest/test.tex http://www.fs.isy.liu.se/~frisk/pdftest/test_distiller.pdf http://www.fs.isy.liu.se/~frisk/pdftest/test_pdflatex.pdf /Erik --------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik Frisk email: frisk@isy.liu.se Dept. of Electrical Engineering tel: +46 13 285714 Vehicular Systems fax: +46 13 282035 Linköping University S-581 83 Linköping SWEDEN www.vehicular.isy.liu.se/~frisk --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 03:07:13 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA22709 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 03:07:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA17528 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:46:32 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA17525 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:46:29 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id JAA11377; hop 0; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:37:26 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:46:12 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13988.19870.760860.109818@srahtz> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:17:18 +0000 (GMT) To: thanh@informatics.muni.cz Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: threads In-Reply-To: <199901181245.NAA27249@anxur.fi.muni.cz> References: <199901181245.NAA27249@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh writes: > > I am reviewing the implementation of threads. I freely confess that I have yet to find a use for threads, and didnt include an interface in hyperref. > Does anyone use it? indeed, i'd like to knw what interface they use, if they do s From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 04:57:03 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA24425 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 04:57:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA17812 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:35:11 -0500 Received: from uakron.edu (uakron.edu [130.101.5.4]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA17809 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:35:10 -0500 Received: from default ([130.101.2.196]) by uakron.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA09271; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:33:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901191133.GAA09271@uakron.edu> From: "D. P. Story" Organization: The University of Akron To: Sebastian Rahtz Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:28:29 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: threads Reply-to: story@uakron.edu CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <13988.19870.760860.109818@srahtz> References: <199901181245.NAA27249@anxur.fi.muni.cz> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On 19 Jan 99, at 9:17, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > Han The Thanh writes: > > > > I am reviewing the implementation of threads. > > I freely confess that I have yet to find a use for threads, and didnt > include an interface in hyperref. > > Does anyone use it? > indeed, i'd like to knw what interface they use, if they do > > s > For one column articles, the same effect can be obtained by either cropping the margins, or by using `/FitBH ' . Threads would bs useful for multicolumn articles. I have not found a need for threads yet. dps > Dr. D. P. Story dpstory@uakron.edu http://www.math.uakron.edu/~dpstory/ Dept of Mathematics and Computer Science / University of Akron / Akron, Ohio 44325 AcroTeX Web Site: http://www.math.uakron.edu/~dpstory/acrotex.html Site Includes: e-Calculus, Algebra Review in Ten Lessons, Mathematics Games, Pdfmarks:Links & Forms, Using LaTeX to Create Quality PDF Documents for the WWW, and much, much more. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 05:25:04 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA24924 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 05:25:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA17871 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:53:28 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA17868 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:53:18 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA06855; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:52:58 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA27875; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:52:56 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901191152.MAA27875@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: threads In-Reply-To: <13988.19870.760860.109818@srahtz> from Sebastian Rahtz at "Jan 19, 99 09:17:18 am" To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:52:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: thanh@informatics.muni.cz, pdftex@tug.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I freely confess that I have yet to find a use for threads, and didnt > include an interface in hyperref. > > Does anyone use it? > indeed, i'd like to knw what interface they use, if they do >From PDF specs: > An article thread identifies related elements in a document, enabling a user > to follow a flow of information that may span multiple columns or pages. > > A PDF document may include one or more article threads. Each thread has a > title and a list of thread elements, which are referred to as beads. A viewer > may allow the user to select a particular thread and then navigate through it; > the viewer automatically maintains a comfortable zoom level for reading and > moves from one bead to the next, rather than from one page to the next. > > If a document includes any threads, they are stored in an array as the value > of the Threads key in the Catalog object. Each thread and its beads are > dictionaries. so in PDF article threads are simple list of rectangles indicating the area of the article. pdftex has the following primitives for thread support: \pdfthread \pdfendthread where can be ie `num 1' or `name {first thread}'. \pdfthread and \pdfendthread must be in the same nesting level. All boxes with that nesting between \pdfthread and \pdfendthread will be treated as part of the article thread with the identifier . Multiple \pdfthread with the same id are joined togetther. \pdfthreadhoffset, \pdfthreadvoffset: dimension parameters specifying the extra space that pdftex will add to the dimensions of each rectangle (which stands for some box). The current mechanism is not very flexible, because the user doesn't have control on which boxes will be added to the current article. This can be a problem, ie for doublecolumn setting there may be an empty box between the left and right column. This box should not be added to the thread, but saying ie \pdfthread num 1' at the begining and `\pdfendthread' in the end causes that these empty boxes will appear in the thread, which is completly wrong. I am thinking about changing the syntax to \pdfthread depth...height...width..., and the user will have to say it explicitly everywhere he wants. Any comments are welcome. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 06:09:14 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA25707 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:09:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA18130 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:46:31 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA18123 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:45:43 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id MAA11594; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:44:19 GMT Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:44:19 GMT Message-Id: <199901191244.MAA11594@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <199901191152.MAA27875@anxur.fi.muni.cz> (message from Han The Thanh on Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:52:55 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: threads References: <199901191152.MAA27875@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thanh The current mechanism is not very flexible, because the user doesn't have control on which boxes will be added to the current article. This can be a problem, ie for doublecolumn setting there may be an empty box between the left and right column. This box should not be added to the thread, but saying ie \pdfthread num 1' at the begining and `\pdfendthread' in the end causes that these empty boxes will appear in the thread, which is completly wrong. I am thinking about changing the syntax to \pdfthread depth...height...width..., and the user will have to say it explicitly everywhere he wants. Given the current mechanism, couldn't the \pdfthread and \pdfendthread instructions be added around each column as it is being inserted on to the page by the output routine, so any rules or other decorations that are outside the threads would not be within the scope of these \pdf.. commands? Putting it in the output routine makes it hard to use for the average user (until Sebastian provides them with a package option to hyperref) but if you switched to explicit sizes then in general you would probably still need to use the output routine to measure text, and also measuring the final size of of a region of the main vertical list is not easy, given considerations of stretching glue etc. It would seem to be easier to have the current \pdfendthread command and let the underlying pdftex engine `know' where a region of text ends, than to try to work this out via tex macros. I should say though, I have never used this command at all, so perhaps I misunderstood its purpose:-) David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 07:26:03 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27238 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:26:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA18630 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:49:43 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA18627 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:49:41 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id NAA23052; hop 0; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:40:39 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:49:28 +0000 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:44:18 +0000 Message-ID: <4799-Tue19Jan1999134418+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q) From: Sebastian Rahtz To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: pdftex list Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I think we suffered a hiatus in the list, but seem to be back on track now. Apologies if messages went astray. Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 07:50:44 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27666 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:50:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18794 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:25:24 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18791 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:25:23 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.143]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2B0F; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:25:08 +0100 Message-ID: <36A458D9.6CF4E3C5@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:05:13 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Erik Frisk CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: cropping References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Erik Frisk wrote: > 3) I have a problem when creating pdf with distiller. > If there are horiz/vertical lines, e.g. in a table or something, the > lines appear perfectly if I run the file through pdftex but not when > going via .ps and distiller. I need to zoom in quite a bit to make all This is also related to the version of the reader you use. Depending on the dvi postprocessor used, sometimes dvi->ps code looks better, sometimes pdftex code. It all has do do with rounding and scaling. In general pdftex is more precise, but that does not help when a viewer does rounding. Often metapost graphics look better than tex's rules. Thanh and I did some experiments with alternative ways of displaying rules, but not all that satisfactionary. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 07:59:49 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA27877 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 07:59:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA18880 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:41:51 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18877 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:41:29 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22453 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:41:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA11454 for pdftex@tug.org; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:41:16 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901191441.PAA11454@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: threads In-Reply-To: <199901191244.MAA11594@nag.co.uk> from David Carlisle at "Jan 19, 99 12:44:19 pm" To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:41:16 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David, > The current mechanism is not very flexible, because the user doesn't > have control on which boxes will be added to the current article. This > can be a problem, ie for doublecolumn setting there may be an empty > box between the left and right column. This box should not be added to > the thread, but saying ie \pdfthread num 1' at the begining and > `\pdfendthread' in the end causes that these empty boxes will appear > in the thread, which is completly wrong. I am thinking about changing > the syntax to \pdfthread depth...height...width..., and the > user will have to say it explicitly everywhere he wants. > > Given the current mechanism, couldn't the \pdfthread and \pdfendthread > instructions be added around each column as it is being inserted on to > the page by the output routine, so any rules or other decorations that > are outside the threads would not be within the scope of these \pdf.. > commands? > > Putting it in the output routine makes it hard to use for the average > user (until Sebastian provides them with a package option to hyperref) > but if you switched to explicit sizes then in general you would probably > still need to use the output routine to measure text, and also measuring > the final size of of a region of the main vertical list is not easy, > given considerations of stretching glue etc. It would seem to be easier > to have the current \pdfendthread command and let the underlying pdftex > engine `know' where a region of text ends, than to try to work this out > via tex macros. yes it would be better to let pdftex do the dimension calculation. \pdfthread can take the optional dimensions, if not given then the dimensions will be calculated from the box contaning the command. Anyway we need to touch the output routine. So do we need the \pdfendthread anymore? Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 08:32:45 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28689 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:32:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19077 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:13:56 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19073 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:13:40 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id PAA11570; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:12:48 GMT Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:12:48 GMT Message-Id: <199901191512.PAA11570@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <199901191441.PAA11454@anxur.fi.muni.cz> (message from Han The Thanh on Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:41:16 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: threads References: <199901191441.PAA11454@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > if not given then the dimensions will be > calculated from the box contaning the command. Oh, OK that sounds reasonable. >So do we need the \pdfendthread anymore? Probably not. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 08:38:19 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28817 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19106 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:17:29 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19102 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:17:28 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.74]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA34A0; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:17:17 +0100 Message-ID: <36A49910.B9962EAA@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:39:12 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh CC: Sebastian Rahtz , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: threads References: <199901191152.MAA27875@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh wrote: > > > I freely confess that I have yet to find a use for threads, and didnt > > include an interface in hyperref. > > > Does anyone use it? > > indeed, i'd like to knw what interface they use, if they do Haha. We (did) use it for reader profiles, version control, and alike. Pretty old stuff, and due to funny viewer behavior, I put it in the fridge. It's commonly used for multi columns, the newspaper ones, things. > The current mechanism is not very flexible, because the user doesn't have > control on which boxes will be added to the current article. This can be a > problem, ie for doublecolumn setting there may be an empty box between the > left and right column. This box should not be added to the thread, but saying > ie \pdfthread num 1' at the begining and `\pdfendthread' in the end causes that > these empty boxes will appear in the thread, which is completly wrong. I am > thinking about changing the syntax to > \pdfthread depth...height...width..., and the user will have to say > it explicitly everywhere he wants. It would always have to be under control of the macropackage anyway. A bigger problem are the offsets and the side effects of changing views. > Any comments are welcome. As said/promissed, later. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 09:14:29 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29714 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:14:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19674 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:59:54 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19670 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:59:52 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id PAA00185; hop 0; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:50:49 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:59:28 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13988.43382.853244.962474@srahtz> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:49:10 +0000 (GMT) To: frisk@isy.liu.se Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: cropping In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Erik Frisk writes: > 1) This issue regarding missing characters (especially minus signs, but I > also have observed missing paranthesises etc). What is the status? Is > this a bug or is there an explaination for this behaviour? Right now I > feel somewhat wary when using pdfTeX. Sticking with Unix and Windows, and having no rubbish like CM TTF fonts installed, I personally have never met a problem. I dont say it isnt real, but its not a universal problem > 2) I want to crop pages using the hyperref package with the > pdfpagescrop option. If I use dvips to create a .ps and distill it, > cropping is perfect but if I use pdflatex, no sign of cropping at all. > > What could I be doing wrong or isn't the pdfpagescrop option supposed > to work with pdflatex? > yes it should work. does /CropBox appear in the PDF file? i'll grab your file and test ... yes, I see /Author () /Title () /Subject () /Creator (LaTeX with hyperref package) /Producer (pdfTeX12.r) /Keywords () /CropBox [108 432 504 749] when I add \usepackage[pdfpagescrop={108 432 504 749}]{hyperref} to your file, so either Acrobat is ignoring it, or I have the syntax wrong :-} sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 11:42:32 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04001 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:42:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA20316 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:29:29 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA20313 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:29:26 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats (toucan.stats [163.1.20.20]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA15787; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:26:19 GMT Message-Id: <199901191826.SAA15787@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:26:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian Ripley Reply-To: Prof Brian Ripley Subject: Re: cropping To: frisk@isy.liu.se, s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: TQl7undogIiWX80rnk5ppA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Erik Frisk writes: > > 1) This issue regarding missing characters (especially minus signs, but I > > also have observed missing paranthesises etc). What is the status? Is > > this a bug or is there an explaination for this behaviour? Right now I > > feel somewhat wary when using pdfTeX. > Sticking with Unix and Windows, and having no rubbish like CM TTF > fonts installed, I personally have never met a problem. I dont say it > isnt real, but its not a universal problem I wish I could agree. But yesterday I had a report of dropped characters on Linux in acroread 3.02. After considerable experimentation on a Linux box, it transpired that the problem is not with acroread (the file displays perfectly from acroread on Linux on the X server on my Sun) but with the X server on Linux. It was dropping \psi, \theta and a few others. Sticking to Solaris and Windows, I have not met problems for a year or so. -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 08:39:51 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28854 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 08:39:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19118 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:17:56 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19114 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:17:54 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.74]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA654F; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:17:18 +0100 Message-ID: <36A499F2.61775C17@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:42:58 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: story@uakron.edu Subject: Re: threads References: <199901181245.NAA27249@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <199901191133.GAA09271@uakron.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk D. P. Story wrote: > For one column articles, the same effect can be obtained by either > cropping the margins, or by using `/FitBH ' . Threads would bs > useful for multicolumn articles. I have not found a need for threads > yet. Hm. Apart from the already mentioned reader profiles, version control I also have some prototypes for insert-alike things (which by the way completely blew up pdftex and/or acrobat). When I find some time, I'll make a demo, which eases the discussion. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 19 16:10:22 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12115 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:10:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA22404 for pdftex-list; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:58:43 -0500 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA22401 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:58:36 -0500 Received: from nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu (ats@nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu [128.252.113.13]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA15154; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:57:04 -0600 (CST) Received: (from ats@localhost) by nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07693; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:55:41 -0600 To: Prof Brian Ripley Cc: frisk@isy.liu.se, s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: cropping References: <199901191826.SAA15787@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Mail-Copies-To: never From: Alan Shutko Date: 19 Jan 1999 16:55:40 -0600 In-Reply-To: Prof Brian Ripley's message of "Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:26:19 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "P" == Prof Brian Ripley writes: P> (the file displays perfectly from acroread on P> Linux on the X server on my Sun) but with the X server on Linux. P> It was dropping \psi, \theta and a few others. Sticking to Solaris P> and Windows, I have not met problems for a year or so. Could you put up a test file somewhere? I was pretty sure that X didn't handle any of the font rendering for acroread/unix at all, so it _couldn't_ be dropping letters. -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted A gift of a flower will soon be made to you. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 20 00:29:51 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA23579 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:29:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA23012 for pdftex-list; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:19:35 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA23009 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:19:34 -0500 Received: from max175.public.ox.ac.uk (max175.public.ox.ac.uk [192.76.27.175]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA16803; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:19:18 GMT Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:20:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian D Ripley To: Alan Shutko cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: cropping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On 19 Jan 1999, Alan Shutko wrote: > >>>>> "P" == Prof Brian Ripley writes: > > P> (the file displays perfectly from acroread on > P> Linux on the X server on my Sun) but with the X server on Linux. > P> It was dropping \psi, \theta and a few others. Sticking to Solaris > P> and Windows, I have not met problems for a year or so. > > Could you put up a test file somewhere? I was pretty sure that X > didn't handle any of the font rendering for acroread/unix at all, so > it _couldn't_ be dropping letters. http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/pub/bdr/pdftest.pdf. On page 2 (labelled 11) and subsequently much of the math has missing letters when displayed on XFree86 server on Linux, but not when displayed on any other Xserver we have from acroread 3.01 or 3.02 from a Linux box, and the original report was from elsewhere. I don't pretend to understand this: it came as a surprise that a file I had previewed on Solaris and Windows NT had problems on Linux. Another slightly different file prepared in parallel does not. -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 20 03:02:48 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26483 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 03:02:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA23682 for pdftex-list; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:48:39 -0500 Received: from quark.fe.up.pt (root@quark.fe.up.pt [193.136.29.192]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA23679 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:48:37 -0500 Received: from fe.up.pt (villate@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by quark.fe.up.pt (8.9.1a/8.9.1/Debian/GNU) with ESMTP id JAA05001; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:48:26 GMT Message-ID: <36A5A668.E1B5E9F7@fe.up.pt> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:48:24 +0000 From: "Jaime E. Villate" Organization: Faculdade de Engenharia, Porto X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586) X-Accept-Language: en, Spanish, es, Portuguese, pt, Spanish/Colombia, es-CO, Portuguese/Brazil, pt-BR, Italian, it MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Prof Brian D Ripley CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: cropping References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Prof Brian D Ripley wrote: > > http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/pub/bdr/pdftest.pdf. > > On page 2 (labelled 11) and subsequently much of the math has missing > letters when displayed on XFree86 server on Linux ... It displays fine in my Linux box. Could you please send us the output of the command: xset q to see what fontpath your Linux server is using (it could be a problem with X11 fonts) Jaime Villate University of Oporto From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 20 04:51:25 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA28332 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:51:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA24280 for pdftex-list; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:38:25 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA24277 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:38:19 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats (toucan.stats [163.1.20.20]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA17228; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:38:11 GMT Message-Id: <199901201138.LAA17228@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:38:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian Ripley Reply-To: Prof Brian Ripley Subject: Re: cropping To: ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk, villate@fe.up.pt Cc: pdftex@tug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: JIGnzvAlhHxHOPvciln5hQ== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:48:24 +0000 > From: "Jaime E. Villate" > X-Accept-Language: en, Spanish, es, Portuguese, pt, Spanish/Colombia, es-CO, Portuguese/Brazil, pt-BR, Italian, it > To: Prof Brian D Ripley > CC: pdftex@tug.org > Subject: Re: cropping > > Prof Brian D Ripley wrote: > > > > http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/pub/bdr/pdftest.pdf. > > > > On page 2 (labelled 11) and subsequently much of the math has missing > > letters when displayed on XFree86 server on Linux ... > > It displays fine in my Linux box. Could you please send us the output > of the command: > xset q > to see what fontpath your Linux server is using (it could be a problem > with X11 fonts) Thank you for the report. I am sorry, the machine that was reported to unable to read this correctly is not mine and not local, so I do not have access to its Xserver. We did manage to generate the problem here yesterday, but that machine has been re-configured since (in particular to 16-bit depth for the Xserver) and the person who did it is unable to recreate the problem. (He was using either 8 or 24 bits deep at the time, I suspect 8 as there was colour flashing when using acroread. I then used acoread on that Linux box remotely from my Sun, saw no problems.) My original comment, that at least 2 Linux boxes have had trouble with this, remains true, I believe. Unfortunately those include that of the person for whom the file was prepared. It is good to know that it is not universal, but puzzling. -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 20 09:06:40 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA03705 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:06:39 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA25343 for pdftex-list; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:42:17 -0500 Received: from ursa.cus.cam.ac.uk (cusexim@ursa.cus.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25340 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:42:15 -0500 Received: from f000.rceal.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.179.137] helo=cam.ac.uk ident=root) by ursa.cus.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #5) id 102zlf-0004aI-00 for pdftex@tug.org; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:42:07 +0000 Message-ID: <36A5F967.7EF17100@cam.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:42:31 +0000 From: "J. P. Blevins" Organization: University of Cambridge X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: setting document font size? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Pdftex appears to ignore the font size information in \documentclass declarations; I get 12 point output with both \documentclass[10pt]{article} and \documentclass[10pt]{article}. What is the best way to declare font size globally for a document in pdftex? Thanks, -Jim Blevins From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 20 10:03:57 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05398 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA25708 for pdftex-list; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:40:31 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA25703 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:40:14 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id QAA18118; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:39:25 GMT Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:39:25 GMT Message-Id: <199901201639.QAA18118@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: jpb39@cam.ac.uk CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <36A5F967.7EF17100@cam.ac.uk> (jpb39@cam.ac.uk) Subject: Re: setting document font size? References: <36A5F967.7EF17100@cam.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Pdftex appears to ignore the font size information in \documentclass No the latex definitions that are given to pdftex are _exactly_ the same as those given to tex, ie the file latex.ltx. So unless you use commands or packages that explitly use the pdftex extensions you will get exactly the same output, whether writing pdf or dvi. If you are seeing the wrong font, then something else may be wrong, but can not tell from your message. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 20 07:59:48 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01893 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:59:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA24972 for pdftex-list; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:25:53 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24969 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:25:52 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id OAA03981; hop 0; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:16:47 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:25:29 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13989.43540.635945.118924@srahtz> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:04:04 +0000 (GMT) To: hypertex-dev@aps.org, thiele@tik.ee.ethz.ch, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: external applications and files via hyperref In-Reply-To: <36A32F36.1010@tik.ee.ethz.ch> References: <36A32F36.1010@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Lothar Thiele writes: > I am going to use hyperref + dvips + distiller for a portable lecture > documentation at ETH Zurich. good! > 1. How can I include in the latex source the link to > a certain bookmark, certain page or certain article of another > pdf document which was not produced via latex (similar to the > "Go To View" link in Acrobat Exchange). if you know there is a "named destination" in the other file, you can do use the usual # notation. so lets assume you have a LaTeX file containing \begin{enumerate} \item Jump to an external: The jump \href{file:test7#TestTarget}{target} should open test7.pdf on page 2, \item Jump to an external: The jump \href{file:test7#page.1}{page 1} should open test7.pdf on page 1. \end{enumerate} and test7.tex has \begin{document} \section{The first section} hello \newpage \section{The second section} \hypertarget{TestTarget}{goodbye} \end{document} If we compile test7.tex to test7.pdf, it contains three destinations: 1) the explicit "TestTarget" 2) the implicit "page.1" and "page.2" which hyperref inserts on every page the first file can now reference these as test7#TestTarget and test7#page.1, etc. The trick is the file:test7#TestTarget notation. hyperref interprets this URL in a special way when it knows it is doing PDF - it treats "file:" as an indication to pass the link to *Acrobat*, not the Web browser, so it is opened locally. the problem is that your "other file" is probably NOT created by LaTeX, and so does not have named destinations you can see, or use the "page.N" convention. Unless I have forgotten my own work, I have not allowed for the arbitrary "open foo.pdf at page N". I am sure this is relatively easy, but I'd need to think about a general way to implement it. does anyone else have any experience in this? how would it be if \href{file:test7#111}{page 111} worked as expected for any file? if the # part was a number, i'd treat it as an absolute page request. > 2. How can I include a link to another file or application > (similar to the "Open File" link in Acrobat Exchange), i.e. > not to be opened or interpreted by a browser. again, to my surprise, hyperref is not catering for this yet. i will implement it. if you say \href{file:foo.doc}{A word file} it would get passed to the Web browser for management which is, as you say, not what you want. i will probably implement it so that \href{run:foo.doc}{A word file} \href{run:c:/MyPrograms/x.exe#bar.doc}{A program} cause Acrobat to locally launch the applications. does anyone have any comment on that? the # in the second example provides parameters to the program. thanks for pointing out these flaws. i'll have a revised hyperref in a day or two. Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 20 17:47:15 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA22753 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:47:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA27256 for pdftex-list; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:38:22 -0500 Received: from ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (cottrell@ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu [152.17.150.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA27253 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:38:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (cottrell@localhost) by ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA27593 for ; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:37:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:37:32 -0500 (EST) From: Allin Cottrell To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: setting document font size? In-Reply-To: <36A5F967.7EF17100@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, J. P. Blevins wrote: > Pdftex appears to ignore the font size information in \documentclass > declarations; I get 12 point output with both > \documentclass[10pt]{article} and \documentclass[10pt]{article}. Eh? These declarations are identical for a start, and 10pt is the default anyway, so the size specification is redundant. You'd best check what you actually typed in the docs in question. Allin Cottrell. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 21 06:06:13 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA07779 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:06:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA29877 for pdftex-list; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:44:06 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA29874 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:43:59 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA25241 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:43:39 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA17925 for pdftex@tug.org; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:43:37 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901211243.NAA17925@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: pdftex-0.13a To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:43:37 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, pdftex-0.13a is available at the usual location: ftp://ftp.cstug.cz/pub/tex/local/cstug/thanh/pdftex-beta/0.13a (sources + binaries for Linux/dos/solaris) The list of changes is appended below. Many thanks to Hans and Thierry for their testing. Regards, Thanh ------------------------ Changes in version 0.13a: * fixed the problem with reading config file (reading "true" dimension accoring to magnification didn't work) * some minor bugs fixed * added new primitive \pdfimageresolution which says the default resolution for images. It can also be set by `image_resolution' in config file, * added `include_form_resources' to config file, which says pdftex to include all resource names when include PDF image. This is not necessary by the PDF specs, however the current version of Acrobat Reader has problem with printing such files. Ghostscript 5.10 also fails, but this has been fixed from version 5.50 * added new primitives \pdfimageprefix, \pdfformprefix and \pdffontprefix. They are useful only in use with `include_form_resources'. When the PDF picture being included and the output PDF have some collision in resource names, it's necessary to use the above primitive to choose another naming scheme for pdftex. * "ExtendFont" is removed from pdftex. This feature is quite an ugly hack (non-consistency between metrics and real glyphs) and caused too many problems. However "SlantFont" is still supported. * syntax of \pdfimage changed: \pdfimage width...height...depth...{file name} * HZ implementation: 1) the syntax of primitive \font extended. Example: `\font\f=myfont at 10pt stretch 50 shrink 40 step 10' says that myfont can be stretched by 5% and shrinked by 4% of the normal character widths. The instances will be created by step 1%, thus just fonts with the character widths +/- 1%, +/- 2% ... are created. The extended files are named as `myfont+10' or `myfont-20', where the tagged numbers are given in thousandths of the width. Thus `myfont+20' stands for the font `myfont' with the character widths wider by 2%. The instances can be created `on-the-fly' or prepared before running. There is a script mktextfm.ext that creates such fonts and the modified mktextfm from tetex that calls mktextfm.ext when needed. 2) new primitive \efcode, which has similiar syntax to \sfcode, can be used to control the amount of stretching/shrinking for individual charaters. There is a zip archive test.zip which contains the file needed for the simplest test in pdftex-0.13a directory. Notest that you must add the following entry into your map files and remove other entries for font putr8a if any exist putr8a Utopia-Regular 34 <8a.enc putr8a.pfb The sample uses the the buit-in AdobeMM fonts, so it doesn't look very decent. If you have `real' MM fonts with width asix, the result may be better, I've tested with Adobe MinionMM. See mktextfm.ext for more details From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 21 15:08:26 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21731 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:08:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA32215 for pdftex-list; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:57:43 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA32212 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:57:41 -0500 Received: from max193.public.ox.ac.uk (max193.public.ox.ac.uk [192.76.27.193]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA27943; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:57:38 GMT Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:59:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian D Ripley To: Han The Thanh cc: pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Han The Thanh wrote: > Hi all, > > what about improving page breaking in (pdf)TeX? I am considering two > possibilities: 1) use an external file to keep information about dimnesions of > material in the main vertial list with two-pass processing; 2) try to improve > page breaking only `localy' by keeping more than one page in memory and to the > shipping when meet some conditions. > > I have no idea how it could be implemented yet, just want to discuss it first. > Any comments/suggestions are appreciated. Maybe I don't understand, but I would regard this as part of TeX; that is with a different page-breaking algorithm it would no longer be TeX. (Chapter 15 of the TeXbook seems to suggest that it is part of TeX itself.) That is not to say that a better algorithm would not be welcome, but I hope you would make it optional. Should this be part of the son-of-TeX efforts? When trying to typeset books I find: the widow/orphan control is not very precise: by default there are too many widows/orphans and increasing the penalties often produces undesirable other changes. trying harder on float placement is something that I believe would be widely appreciated. A certain guru's books have many less floats than mine! My experience is that it looks as if a little more look-ahead would help, so your `locally' route looks good to me. Brian -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 21 12:48:27 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17450 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:48:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA31356 for pdftex-list; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:33:27 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA31352 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:33:24 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03284 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:33:23 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA19782 for pdftex@tug.org; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:33:20 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: page breaking? To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:33:20 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, what about improving page breaking in (pdf)TeX? I am considering two possibilities: 1) use an external file to keep information about dimnesions of material in the main vertial list with two-pass processing; 2) try to improve page breaking only `localy' by keeping more than one page in memory and to the shipping when meet some conditions. I have no idea how it could be implemented yet, just want to discuss it first. Any comments/suggestions are appreciated. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 21 15:48:35 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22721 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:48:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA32546 for pdftex-list; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:41:41 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA32543 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:41:39 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10295 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:41:38 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA26268 for pdftex@tug.org; Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:41:37 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901212241.XAA26268@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: ExtendFont To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:41:37 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, as ExtendFont feature is not supported by pdftex now, we need a solution for this problem. I've done some experiments with T1 fonts, and it's not so bad as I thought. It is possible to edit the FontMatrix in the font file (pfa) to get the same effect. This work only for ExtendFont; SlantFont does not. Fortunately SlantFont is still supported, so we don't need it (yet). Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 04:45:22 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA08777 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 04:45:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA01277 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:25:02 -0500 Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail1.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA01274 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:25:00 -0500 Received: from sable.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.4]) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 103ehv-0004NY-00 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:24:59 +0000 Received: from oums0132 (helo=localhost) by sable.ox.ac.uk with local-smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 103ehv-0008Qd-00 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:24:59 +0000 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:24:58 +0000 (GMT) From: Simon Jordan To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Mac Acrobat Reader Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all I have got pdftex to work very nicely using the IRIX acrobat reader. However, the Mac reader won't display fonts - everything except ligatures and the Greek characters is blank. I don't think it's a setup problem, because the file `kpathsea.pdf' from the ftp site has the same problem. I know this is a known problem, but has anybody solved it? Simon. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 06:00:25 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10023 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:00:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA01527 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:41:30 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA01524 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:41:28 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.157]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4675; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:41:08 +0100 Message-ID: <36A86D3A.183D4EE9@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:21:14 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh wrote: > what about improving page breaking in (pdf)TeX? I am considering two > possibilities: 1) use an external file to keep information about dimnesions of > material in the main vertial list with two-pass processing; 2) try to improve > page breaking only `localy' by keeping more than one page in memory and to the > shipping when meet some conditions. This is tricky stuff. Actually a macro can so this, and most multicolumn routines are based on keeping many pages in memory. The main problem with writing an output routine is lack or information. Accumulated insert height for instance is only available in the otr, which is annoying. So, in general, more info is a first step. > I have no idea how it could be implemented yet, just want to discuss it first. > Any comments/suggestions are appreciated. I'll give it some thought, will take some time. There are some thoughts on this in the etex team(s). Did you discuss this with Phil? Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 06:02:21 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA10071 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:02:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA01523 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:41:24 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA01520 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:41:22 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.157]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4686; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:41:13 +0100 Message-ID: <36A86FBB.C6F717B2@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:31:55 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Prof Brian D Ripley CC: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Prof Brian D Ripley wrote: > Maybe I don't understand, but I would regard this as part of TeX; that is > with a different page-breaking algorithm it would no longer be TeX. > (Chapter 15 of the TeXbook seems to suggest that it is part of TeX itself.) It's a mixture of TeX and output routines. > That is not to say that a better algorithm would not be welcome, but I hope > you would make it optional. Should this be part of the son-of-TeX efforts? It is on the etex agenda. > When trying to typeset books I find: > > the widow/orphan control is not very precise: by default there are > too many widows/orphans and increasing the penalties often produces > undesirable other changes. I would like to see strategies implemented (the same for paragraphs building): provide collections of settings, and let tex try them and choose the best. > trying harder on float placement is something that I believe would be > widely appreciated. A certain guru's books have many less floats than mine! Well, we produce documents with many floats (somethimes more floats than pages, adding up to several hundreds) and in general placing them is not that much a problem. I'm not sure if tex-the-program could come up with better solutions for worse case situations. A 100% perfect batch formatter is a dream. I can think of a multipass optimization on the page breaking, given that more info is available at shipout time, to be used in a second pass. Of course such an optimization can lead to interesting conflicts with other optimizations (in context there are some multipass optimizations already). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 07:30:43 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA11750 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:30:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA02211 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:16:40 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02208 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:16:38 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA04492; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:16:33 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id PAA12187; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:16:43 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:16:43 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901221416.PAA12187@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Han The Thanh Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> References: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, » what about improving page breaking in (pdf)TeX? I know I'm not happy with the current state of things, but it's hard for me to see better solutions. For a start, it should be possible to have at least 2 pages in memory, and a concept of facing pages, so that a parameter could constraint two facing pages to be visually compatible (as in adjdemerits). I think many more parameters should be available. For instance, how do you achieve that: - penalty for the last line of a paragraph which is too short - when the last line of a paragraph ends near the right margin, it should be justified as well I always come back with this: there is a distinction between alinea & paragraph: alineas are simply what tex does as a \par with \parskip0pt, \parindent1em ("period, next line"), paragraphs are what tex does with \parskip\baselineskip ("period, blank line, next line"). There should exist some widow/orphans control at _both_ levels (milder for alineas than for paragraphs). Now, as of pagebreaking, I also already said that i'd like to have a \oddbrokenpenalty, e.g. : different penalty for hyphenated words ending an odd or even page. Yesterday, someone showed me a book printed with tex, saying to me : this is not a professional typesetting tool! The lineskips on the right page were about 1.5 times the ones on the left page! Also some support for grid typesetting (resynchronization to the grid after maths/floats placements...) could be interesting. Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 09:43:29 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15269 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:43:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA02626 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:30:08 -0500 Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02623 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:30:05 -0500 Received: from pviton (ts28-1.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.72]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA06253; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:29:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990122112940.00939100@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: pviton@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:29:40 -0400 To: pdftex@tug.org From: "Philip A. Viton" Subject: truetype again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk We seem to be agreed that using TrueType fonts in pdftex under Windows is problematic when the user already has the font installed, because then it will not be re-encoded correctly. One effect of this is that ligatures don't show up correctly. It was then suggested that we could "randomly" rename the truetype fonts in the pdf file generated by pdftex. Thanh replied that he'd already tried this and it didn't work. I've done a bit of experimenting, and it looks to me as if it *can* be made to work. I took the Kinch font cmr10.ttf which is installed on my WinNT4 system, and ran it through Richard Kinch's ttf_edit utility changing the following internal name identifier from cmr10 to xmr10: Platform: 3.1 Language ID: 0x0409 Name ID: 1 After doing this, a simple test file with ligatures displayed correctly, while the ligs showed as empty boxes when using the un-altered cmr10.ttf font. I also experimented with changing Name ID's 3,4, and 6: it appears that the only one that matters for pdf purposes is ID 1. For the record, Richard Kinch is giving away the ttf_edit program (at least for the time being); the ttf_edit "script" to re-name cmr10.ttf to make it uasble in pdftex is: ttf_edit cmr10.ttf font dup 3 1 0x0409 1 xmr10 rename xmr10.ttf gen I can also supply the tiny pdf files created using xmr10.ttf and cmr10.ttf, plus the file comparison generated by the fc utility. Anyway, the upshot is that a re-name strategy like this could probably be made to work for truetype fonts, whether installed or not. Is there any interest in pursuing this? ------------------------ Philip A. Viton City Planning, Ohio State University 190 W. 17th Ave,Columbus OH 43210 viton.1@osu.edu From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 09:47:41 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15352 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:47:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA02614 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:27:38 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA02611 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:27:33 -0500 Received: from remote142-1.home.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.142.1] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 103jQg-0001s4-00; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:27:30 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19990122172611.23672c5e@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:26:11 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: pdftex-0.13a Slantfont does not work In-Reply-To: <199901211243.NAA17925@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk At 13:43 21.01.1999 +0100, Han The Thanh wrote: > * "ExtendFont" is removed from pdftex. This feature is quite an ugly hack > (non-consistency between metrics and real glyphs) and caused too many > problems. However "SlantFont" is still supported. A short test file: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{times} \begin{document} \noindent Hello World!\\ \slshape Hello World! \end{document} The map file entry: ptmro8r Times-Roman " .167 SlantFont " 8r.enc This results in a very distort slanted string with a gigantic width (about 10 times greater than it should be) :-( Best regards Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 10:22:30 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA16391 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:22:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA02865 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:11:43 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA02862 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:11:42 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.166]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAD1F; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:11:29 +0100 Message-ID: <36A8B1D5.567AF42A@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:13:57 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Bouche CC: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <199901221416.PAA12187@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche wrote: > Yesterday, someone showed me a book printed with tex, saying to me : > this is not a professional typesetting tool! The lineskips on the > right page were about 1.5 times the ones on the left page! Are you really saying that the baseline skip is glued? Amazing. > Also some support for grid typesetting (resynchronization to the grid > after maths/floats placements...) could be interesting. On the etex agenda. Can until a certain extend be done by current tex. There is pretty much involved in this, if only conceptualy. -) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 12:32:50 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19856 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:32:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA03304 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:18:38 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA03301 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:18:36 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21506 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:18:21 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA21597 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:18:19 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901221918.UAA21597@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex-0.13a Slantfont does not work In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19990122172611.23672c5e@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> from Heiko Oberdiek at "Jan 22, 99 05:26:11 pm" To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:18:19 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > * "ExtendFont" is removed from pdftex. This feature is quite an ugly hack > > (non-consistency between metrics and real glyphs) and caused too many > > problems. However "SlantFont" is still supported. > > A short test file: > \documentclass{article} > \usepackage{times} > \begin{document} > \noindent Hello World!\\ > \slshape Hello World! > \end{document} > > The map file entry: > ptmro8r Times-Roman " .167 SlantFont " 8r.enc > > This results in a very distort slanted string with a gigantic width > (about 10 times greater than it should be) :-( I forgot an extra "1" before the text matrix, so the text is really 11 times larger than it should be. Sorry about that. The next update will fix it. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 22 13:34:06 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA21278 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:34:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA03658 for pdftex-list; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:19:54 -0500 Received: from portal.aerojet.com (portal.aerojet.com [192.149.4.254]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA03655 for ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:19:48 -0500 Received: (smapu@localhost) by portal.aerojet.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA28371; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:19:46 -0800 Received: from mail1-az.aerojet.com(159.4.1.8) by portal.aerojet.com via smap (V1.3) id sma028352; Fri Jan 22 12:18:53 1999 Received: from azu-public1.aes.com ([159.4.100.109]) by radon.aes.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA1589866; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:11:17 -0800 Received: by azu-public1.aes.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:18:53 -0800 Message-ID: <38CA0FDBBDADD211BFAA00805F152667241924@azu-mail2.aes.com> From: MARK.WROTH@aerojet.com (Wroth, Mark) To: pdfTeX Cc: pdfTeX Subject: RE: page breaking? Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:18:50 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk The baseline skip _can_ be a stretchable glue. Controlled by the macro packages..... -----Original Message----- From: Hans Hagen [mailto:pragma@wxs.nl] Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 9:14 AM To: Thierry Bouche Cc: Han The Thanh; pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? Thierry Bouche wrote: > Yesterday, someone showed me a book printed with tex, saying to me : > this is not a professional typesetting tool! The lineskips on the > right page were about 1.5 times the ones on the left page! Are you really saying that the baseline skip is glued? Amazing. > Also some support for grid typesetting (resynchronization to the grid > after maths/floats placements...) could be interesting. On the etex agenda. Can until a certain extend be done by current tex. There is pretty much involved in this, if only conceptualy. -) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 01:36:33 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA26793 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 01:36:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA09906 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:20:52 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA09903 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:20:50 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.144]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA7422; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:20:40 +0100 Message-ID: <36AC2173.DEEEBC2D@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:46:59 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wroth, Mark" CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <38CA0FDBBDADD211BFAA00805F152667241924@azu-mail2.aes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Wroth, Mark wrote: > > The baseline skip _can_ be a stretchable glue. Controlled by the macro > packages..... Sure, because it's a skip, it can have stretch. But then, one must not be surprised when the text comes out ugly on non ragged pages. Even the smallest amount of stretch can stretch to infinity -) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 02:34:57 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA27947 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:34:55 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA10182 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:24:02 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA10179 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:23:59 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10139 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:23:57 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA21726 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:23:56 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901250923.KAA21726@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: truetype again In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19990122112940.00939100@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> from "Philip A. Viton" at "Jan 22, 99 11:29:40 am" To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:23:56 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, > Anyway, the upshot is that a re-name strategy like this could probably > be made to work for truetype fonts, whether installed or not. Is there > any interest in pursuing this? can you try some font with 256 glyphs? It seems to me that when the glyphs in range 0..31 work, then glyphs in 128..159 don't. I am certainly interested in how to get TT fonts work. We can do more experiments on this topic together. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 02:43:30 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA28114 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:43:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA10231 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:33:40 -0500 Received: from lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au [129.78.64.15]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA10228 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:33:36 -0500 Received: from mail.usyd.edu.au (mp-7-10.mp.usyd.edu.au [129.78.57.10]) by lorica.ucc.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA09913 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:32:52 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <36AC3A71.2DC6EF4E@mail.usyd.edu.au> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 20:33:37 +1100 From: Robert Howlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdftex-0.13a References: <199901211243.NAA17925@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, Han The Thanh wrote: > > 1) the syntax of primitive \font extended. > Example: `\font\f=myfont at 10pt stretch 50 shrink 40 step 10' > says that myfont can be stretched by 5% and shrinked by 4% of the normal > character widths. The instances will be created by step 1%, thus just > fonts with the character widths +/- 1%, +/- 2% ... are created. The > extended files are named as `myfont+10' or `myfont-20', where the tagged > numbers are given in thousandths of the width. Thus `myfont+20' stands for > the font `myfont' with the character widths wider by 2%. The instances > can be created `on-the-fly' or prepared before running. There is a > script mktextfm.ext that creates such fonts and the > modified mktextfm from tetex that calls mktextfm.ext when needed. > 2) new primitive \efcode, which has similiar syntax to \sfcode, can be > used to control the amount of stretching/shrinking for individual > charaters. > How is stretching/shrinking counted when calculating the badness of a paragraph? What is the role of the value of \pdfadjustspacing? In another message, Han The Thanh wrote: > as ExtendFont feature is not supported by pdftex now, we need a solution for > this problem. I've done some experiments with T1 fonts, and it's not so bad > as I thought. It is possible to edit the FontMatrix in the font file (pfa) to > get the same effect. This work only for ExtendFont; SlantFont does not. > Fortunately SlantFont is still supported, so we don't need it (yet). When I was experimenting with different fonts recently, I found that the cm fonts I was using for the mathematics in my document looked a bit thin alongside the font I was considering using for the text, and so I tried using ExtendFont to make a thicker version of cmmi10 etc.. It worked, but unfortunately made my pdf file a lot bigger (about 25% bigger, I think). I figured this was because every time a character from the font was used the pdf file had to contain instructions for making the characters thicker. So it seemed to me that what was needed was really a utility which creates a new font based on the old one. In the meantime I've gone back to using ordinary cm fonts for text and maths. Bob Howlett From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 02:57:14 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA28339 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 02:57:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA10376 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:47:18 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA10373 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:47:16 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA19233; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:40:50 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id KAA10699; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:41:33 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:41:33 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901250941.KAA10699@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Hans Hagen Cc: "Wroth, Mark" , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <36AC2173.DEEEBC2D@wxs.nl> References: <38CA0FDBBDADD211BFAA00805F152667241924@azu-mail2.aes.com> <36AC2173.DEEEBC2D@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk » Sure, because it's a skip, it can have stretch. But then, one must not » be surprised when the text comes out ugly on non ragged pages. Even the » smallest amount of stretch can stretch to infinity -) Yes, a feature that can quickly generate (typographical) bugs... Like \z@skip in latex... Isn't it weird that TeX forbids letterspacing, that was always seen as heretic by its creator, but allows such crazy vertical discrepancies? Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 03:33:17 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA28919 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:33:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA10585 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:17:41 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA10582 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:17:36 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id KAA03576; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:16:51 GMT Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:16:51 GMT Message-Id: <199901251016.KAA03576@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <199901250941.KAA10699@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> (message from Thierry Bouche on Mon, 25 Jan 1999 10:41:33 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <38CA0FDBBDADD211BFAA00805F152667241924@azu-mail2.aes.com> <36AC2173.DEEEBC2D@wxs.nl> <199901250941.KAA10699@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk » Sure, because it's a skip, it can have stretch. But then, one must not » be surprised when the text comes out ugly on non ragged pages. Even the » smallest amount of stretch can stretch to infinity -) Yes, a feature that can quickly generate (typographical) bugs... Like \z@skip in latex... \z@skip in latex is non stretchable glue of zero size. There is nothing special about \z@skip, there is no other value that you could give a skip that would mean `less stretching'. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 04:14:41 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA29604 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:14:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA10859 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:48:32 -0500 Received: from math.ams.org (math.ams.org [130.44.210.14]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA10855 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:48:31 -0500 Received: from sun06.ams.org by math.ams.org via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 25 Jan 1999 10:48:31 UT Received: from localhost by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) with SMTP id <0F64008013CUT0@sun06.ams.org> for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:48:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:48:30 -0500 (EST) From: Tom Kacvinsky Subject: ExtendFont and /Widths array [was: pdftex-0.13a] In-reply-to: <36AC3A71.2DC6EF4E@mail.usyd.edu.au> To: pdfTeX Mailing List Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Looking at the code, this enlargment in file size is *probably* due to the fact the the ExtendFont hook makes pdftex output a character widths array (an object with name /Widths and which is not compressed). with values consisting of the extended widths for each character used. The widths are some multiplier of 1000, and since they are in ASCII, I can see how the file would get larger. How much larger, I am not sure. Thanh, since the prefered method for storing the /Widths array is an indirect object, would in be possible to place the width object in a flate compressed stream? I wanted to work on the general idea of using a stream for compressing the Type 1 data, but never got around to it because of time constraints. How hard would this be to implement? I know you have other things that you want to do right now. Thanks, Tom > > When I was experimenting with different fonts recently, I found that the > cm fonts I was using for the mathematics in my document looked a bit > thin > alongside the font I was considering using for the text, and so I tried > using ExtendFont to make a thicker version of cmmi10 etc.. It worked, > but > unfortunately made my pdf file a lot bigger (about 25% bigger, I think). > I figured this was because every time a character from the font was used > the pdf file had to contain instructions for making the characters > thicker. > So it seemed to me that what was needed was really a utility which > creates > a new font based on the old one. In the meantime I've gone back to > using ordinary cm fonts for text and maths. > From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 04:15:06 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA29619 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:15:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA10912 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:55:54 -0500 Received: from math.ams.org (math.ams.org [130.44.210.14]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA10909 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:55:52 -0500 Received: from sun06.ams.org by math.ams.org via smtpd (for tug.org [158.121.106.10]) with SMTP; 25 Jan 1999 10:55:52 UT Received: from localhost by sun06.ams.org (PMDF V5.1-10 #27147) with SMTP id <0F64008013P3U0@sun06.ams.org> for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:55:52 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 05:55:51 -0500 (EST) From: Tom Kacvinsky Subject: Re: ExtendFont and /Widths array [was: pdftex-0.13a] In-reply-to: To: pdfTeX Mailing List Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I should hasten to add that this is how the ExtendFont hook worked in versions of pdftex that had the ExtendFont feature. Still, flate compressing the font information would still be nice. Reagrds, Tom From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 06:27:58 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA01726 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:27:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11666 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:11:31 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11663 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:11:22 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA05130; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:11:16 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA12306; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:11:10 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901251311.OAA12306@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: Mac Acrobat Reader In-Reply-To: from Simon Jordan at "Jan 22, 99 11:24:58 am" To: simon.jordan@materials.oxford.ac.uk (Simon Jordan) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:11:10 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > I have got pdftex to work very nicely using the IRIX acrobat > reader. However, the Mac reader won't display fonts - everything except > ligatures and the Greek characters is blank. > > I don't think it's a setup problem, because the file > `kpathsea.pdf' from the ftp site has the same problem. > > I know this is a known problem, but has anybody solved it? I think this problem has been fixed from some version of pdftex-0.12*, but not sure because I don't have a Mac. The kpathsea.pdf was created with pdftex-0.11, which still has the bug. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 06:38:42 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA01928 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:38:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11659 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:09:25 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA11656 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:09:20 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04953 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:09:12 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA12128 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:09:10 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901251309.OAA12128@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: ExtendFont and /Widths array [was: pdftex-0.13a] In-Reply-To: from Tom Kacvinsky at "Jan 25, 99 05:48:30 am" To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:09:10 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Looking at the code, this enlargment in file size is *probably* due to > the fact the the ExtendFont hook makes pdftex output a character > widths array (an object with name /Widths and which is not compressed). > with values consisting of the extended widths for each character used. > The widths are some multiplier of 1000, and since they are in ASCII, I > can see how the file would get larger. How much larger, I am not sure. > > Thanh, since the prefered method for storing the /Widths array is > an indirect object, would in be possible to place the width > object in a flate compressed stream? unfortunately only streams can be compressed > I wanted to work on the general idea of using a stream for compressing > the Type 1 data, but never got around to it because of time constraints. > How hard would this be to implement? I know you have other things > that you want to do right now. I was thinking of it a time ago. But having done some experiments I find out that it doesn't help to reduce the size of Type1 fonts very much: only text part can be effectively compressed, the encrypted data size stays nearly the same. Concerning to using ExtendFont in pdftex-0.13, I think there is a way to go. Below is the explanation from Berthold (Y&Y) for using font with extended width. I've done some experiments based on that mechanism and it works. Best, Thanh ------------------------------------------------------------------- * Indeed, you can mung the PFA file to change the FontMatrix. * Just be careful to change the names also to avoid having Distiller or Reader * getting totally confused between the original font and the transformed version. * You may want to comment out the UniqueID also (in which case it will not * match the UniqueID in the encrypted section and as a result will be ignored * by PS interpreters). * * There is some issue about things like whether the ItalicAngle and the * BoundingBox numbers are in the coordinates *before* the transformation or * *after* (I think ATM treats it as before, but some PS interpreters may not agree). * * If the font is used by ATM you also need PFM files which of course now * will have different advance widths, kerning pairs etc. But I guess this should * not be an issue if Disitller picks up the PFB files or if you embed the PFA file * in the PS. * * >non-canonical FontMatrix, but Acrobat Reader doesn't seem to handle it at all. * * Hmm, oh so you are trying to create the font as it appears in PDF. Since this * has some sort of auxiliary information that Distiller puts in I wonder whether * the problem is that some of that is changed by the transformation and you have * to make the same change as Distiller does. * * By the way, we haven't had any troubles with Distiller created PDF files for fonts * with peculiar Transformation Matrices (like Lucida Sans Typewriter Narrow). * * Regards, Berthold. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 07:15:20 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA02590 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:15:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA11908 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:49:58 -0500 Received: from vmail.vicr.com (vmail.vicr.com [207.141.187.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA11905 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:49:56 -0500 From: jluciani@vicr.com Received: from vicorgate.vicr.com by vmail.vicr.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA23585; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:51:02 -0500 Received: from ccMail by vicorgate.vicr.com (IMA Internet Exchange 2.12 Enterprise) id 0002623E; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:59:09 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 08:55:59 -0500 Message-Id: <0002623E.001419@vicr.com> Subject: Error using \includegraphics To: pdftex@tug.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I am using the pdfLaTeX that is included in the MiKTeX 1.11 distribution. I get the following error when opening the generated pdf file: There is a problem reading this document (14) I am trying to include a JPEG file that I converted to PNG file using ImageMagick. If I use the "draft" option after the \includegraphics the document is readable displaying the filename in place of the image. Is there a problem in the conversion of JPEG to PNG? Are there other graphics import options that I can use to avoid the conversion? Is this a problem with the version of pdfTeX that I am using? I am using pdfTeX, Version 3.14159-0.12l (MiKTeX 1.11). The code that produces the error is below. \documentclass{article} \usepackage[pdftex]{graphicx} \begin{document} \DeclareGraphicsExtensions{.png} \pdfoutput=1 \pdfpagewidth=8.5in \pdfpageheight=11in \includegraphics[height=5in, width=4in]{j} \end{document} Thanks for your help. (* jcl *) From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 09:58:07 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA06877 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:58:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12712 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:41:03 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12705 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:40:57 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.193]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA61C6; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:40:24 +0100 Message-ID: <36AC9C29.E1F2A3B2@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:30:33 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thierry Bouche CC: "Wroth, Mark" , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <38CA0FDBBDADD211BFAA00805F152667241924@azu-mail2.aes.com> <36AC2173.DEEEBC2D@wxs.nl> <199901250941.KAA10699@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by tug.org id LAA12707 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thierry Bouche wrote: > » Sure, because it's a skip, it can have stretch. But then, one must not > » be surprised when the text comes out ugly on non ragged pages. Even the > » smallest amount of stretch can stretch to infinity -) > > Yes, a feature that can quickly generate (typographical) bugs... Like > \z@skip in latex... > > Isn't it weird that TeX forbids letterspacing, that was always seen as > heretic by its creator, but allows such crazy vertical discrepancies? Indeed, but it has its use when filling vboxes with things other than text. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 09:58:21 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA06890 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 09:58:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA12711 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:41:02 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA12706 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:40:57 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.193]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA61A7; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:40:21 +0100 Message-ID: <36AC9BC6.10C7817@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:28:54 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robert Howlett CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: pdftex-0.13a References: <199901211243.NAA17925@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36AC3A71.2DC6EF4E@mail.usyd.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Robert Howlett wrote: > unfortunately made my pdf file a lot bigger (about 25% bigger, I think). > I figured this was because every time a character from the font was used > the pdf file had to contain instructions for making the characters > thicker. Indeed. \pdfadjustspacing=1 does this > So it seemed to me that what was needed was really a utility which > creates > a new font based on the old one. In the meantime I've gone back to That's what happens when \pdfadjustspacing=2 More on this in the updated manual (in correction stage). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 11:44:58 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA10294 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:44:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA13207 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:29:10 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA13204 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:29:08 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:29:00 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA03899; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:28:55 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:28:55 +0000 (GMT) To: Han The Thanh Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> References: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13996.45227.632220.463774@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Thanh I know that there has been some discussion of this. maybe people have already said much the seam as me; if so, ap;ogies for the repitition. Improving on TeX's page-breaking has been studied by several people for many years (at least 15 to my knowledge). Despite this I think we are still at the stage when we need some really new and good (ie that give good output in a reasonable time) algorithms. Only then can we see how TeX itself needs to (or could usefully) change in order to implement them. The only reason for doing anything like this in pdfTeX alone would be if pdf supports anything relevant beyond dvi: I claim that it does not but you would know better than I. > 1) use an external file to keep information about dimnesions of > material in the main vertial list with two-pass processing; This is something Frank Mittelbach and I (some time ago) looked at. It can be generalised in a way that is deifnitely worth you looking at (for eTeX but with obvious applications to writing pdf as well as dvi): there is some (potentially a lot) of useful information that TeX throws away when it writes out a dvi file. What data structures and interfaces are needed to preserve this. Comments: -- Some of it could be simply put, by eTeX, into a \special or a pdf-specific equivalent; but it may nevewrtheless be better to have a new structure for specific data. -- I guess that you use some of this (eg data about box dimensions) in pdftex. -- Another extension of this idea could be very useful when (if?) PDF and its readers support "document structure information". -- Note that keeping information rlevant to page-breaking somewhere does not solve the problem of how to sensibly use that information (and that is the difficult and important bit). > 2) try to improve page breaking only `localy' by keeping more than > one page in memory and to the shipping when meet some conditions. I think that hns and others have explained that this type of thing is alrady done in the more advanced Output Routines. Therefore the best way to start on this would be to look at what that TeX code is doing! You will probably need to ask the authors and it will probably be an unpopular question: but it will be a good exercise for them to explain to you the algorithm they are using. The next stage would be to investigate what changes in TeX would help the exising algorithms. > I have no idea how it could be implemented yet, just want to > discuss it first. Excellent: but I would predict that it `needs a lot more than an email discussion before we get anywhwre near ay grand new concept that is worth implementing. meanwhile the above tasks should keep busy anyone who is intersted in this work. And this is probably not the right place for such discussions. > Any comments/suggestions are appreciated. I hope this makes sense. I probably should give you some references to look at ... but I shall wait to see what response I get first. A more wild prediction is that, whereas such developments are feasible only to a very limited extent within eTeX, the wonderful new shiny OO NTS will be perfectly tailored to support experiments with such new ideas. chris From "Nelson H. F. Beebe " Mon Jan 25 11:58:32 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA10681; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA21674; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:58:30 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:58:30 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: page breaking? Message-ID: Before beginning any new work on the page and line breaking problem in pdftex, it is important to look at previously published work in this area. Two important papers are: URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/typeset.bib Line=4173 @String{j-SPE = "Soft{\-}ware\emdash Prac{\-}tice and Experien ce"} @Article{Knuth:1981:BPL, author = "D. E. Knuth and M. E. Plass", title = "Breaking paragraphs into lines", journal = j-SPE, volume = "11", number = "11", pages = "1119--1184", month = nov, year = "1981", CODEN = "SPEXBL", ISSN = "0038-0644", bibdate = "Mon Jul 25 08:37:04 MDT 1994", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, keyword = "algorithms; design", review = "ACM CR 39160", subject = "I.7 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Document Preparation", } @InCollection{Plass:1982:CBL, author = "M. F. Plass and D. E. Knuth", title = "Choosing better line breaks", crossref = "Nievergelt:1982:DPS", pages = "221--242", year = "1982", bibdate = "Mon Jul 25 08:37:04 MDT 1994", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, keyword = "algorithms; documentation", review = "ACM CR 40914", subject = "I.7 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Text Editing \\ I.7.2 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Document Preparation, Format and notation", } @String{pub-ENH = "Elsevier North-Holland, Inc."} @String{pub-ENH:adr = "New York, NY, USA"} @Book{Nievergelt:1982:DPS, editor = "J. Nievergelt and G. Coray and J.-D. Nicoud and A. C. Shaw", booktitle = "Document Preparation Systems: A Collection of Survey Articles", title = "Document Preparation Systems: {A} Collection of Survey Articles", publisher = pub-ENH, address = pub-ENH:adr, pages = "xiv + 274", year = "1982", ISBN = "0-444-86493-8", LCCN = "Z244 .D63 1982", bibdate = "Sat Nov 12 21:44:28 1994", price = "US\$46.50", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, keywords = "algorithms; human factors; languages; theory", review = "ACM CR 40376", subject = "H.1 Information Systems, MODELS AND PRINCIPLES, User/Machine Systems \\ I.7 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Text Editing \\ I.7 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Document Preparation J Computer Applications, COMPUTERS IN OTHER SYSTEMS", } ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From "Chris Rowley " Mon Jan 25 12:12:22 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id MAA11036 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:12:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:11:45 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA03962; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:11:40 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:11:39 +0000 (GMT) To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13996.49425.791640.136621@fell.open.ac.uk> Nelson > Before beginning any new work on the page and line breaking problem > in pdftex, it is important to look at previously published work in > this area. Two important papers are: Great, thanks. Their age does, I think, reperesent the reality of published work in this area ... at least until a recent PhD thesis of which I do not at present have details to hand. But I think this maybe should transfer elsewhere: do you agree, Sebastian? chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 12:13:43 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA11074 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:13:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA13465 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:58:52 -0500 Received: from csc-sun.math.utah.edu (root@csc-sun.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA13462 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 13:58:41 -0500 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [155.101.20.21]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA10681; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:58:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) id LAA21674; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:58:30 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 11:58:30 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: page breaking? Message-ID: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Before beginning any new work on the page and line breaking problem in pdftex, it is important to look at previously published work in this area. Two important papers are: URL = ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/typeset.bib Line=4173 @String{j-SPE = "Soft{\-}ware\emdash Prac{\-}tice and Experien ce"} @Article{Knuth:1981:BPL, author = "D. E. Knuth and M. E. Plass", title = "Breaking paragraphs into lines", journal = j-SPE, volume = "11", number = "11", pages = "1119--1184", month = nov, year = "1981", CODEN = "SPEXBL", ISSN = "0038-0644", bibdate = "Mon Jul 25 08:37:04 MDT 1994", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, keyword = "algorithms; design", review = "ACM CR 39160", subject = "I.7 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Document Preparation", } @InCollection{Plass:1982:CBL, author = "M. F. Plass and D. E. Knuth", title = "Choosing better line breaks", crossref = "Nievergelt:1982:DPS", pages = "221--242", year = "1982", bibdate = "Mon Jul 25 08:37:04 MDT 1994", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, keyword = "algorithms; documentation", review = "ACM CR 40914", subject = "I.7 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Text Editing \\ I.7.2 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Document Preparation, Format and notation", } @String{pub-ENH = "Elsevier North-Holland, Inc."} @String{pub-ENH:adr = "New York, NY, USA"} @Book{Nievergelt:1982:DPS, editor = "J. Nievergelt and G. Coray and J.-D. Nicoud and A. C. Shaw", booktitle = "Document Preparation Systems: A Collection of Survey Articles", title = "Document Preparation Systems: {A} Collection of Survey Articles", publisher = pub-ENH, address = pub-ENH:adr, pages = "xiv + 274", year = "1982", ISBN = "0-444-86493-8", LCCN = "Z244 .D63 1982", bibdate = "Sat Nov 12 21:44:28 1994", price = "US\$46.50", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, keywords = "algorithms; human factors; languages; theory", review = "ACM CR 40376", subject = "H.1 Information Systems, MODELS AND PRINCIPLES, User/Machine Systems \\ I.7 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Text Editing \\ I.7 Computing Methodologies, TEXT PROCESSING, Document Preparation J Computer Applications, COMPUTERS IN OTHER SYSTEMS", } ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 322 INSCC beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 12:23:18 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA11356 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 12:23:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA13566 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:12:01 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA13563 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:11:57 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:11:45 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA03962; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:11:40 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:11:39 +0000 (GMT) To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13996.49425.791640.136621@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Nelson > Before beginning any new work on the page and line breaking problem > in pdftex, it is important to look at previously published work in > this area. Two important papers are: Great, thanks. Their age does, I think, reperesent the reality of published work in this area ... at least until a recent PhD thesis of which I do not at present have details to hand. But I think this maybe should transfer elsewhere: do you agree, Sebastian? chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 14:40:09 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA14819 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:40:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA00802 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:26:20 -0500 Received: from phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca (root@phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca [207.253.145.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA00799 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:26:18 -0500 From: pierred@Interlinx.qc.ca Received: from utc-1-45.interlinx.qc.ca (utc-1-45.interlinx.qc.ca [207.253.146.65]) by phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA01142 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:26:10 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: pdfpageattr syntax Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:26:11 -0500 Message-ID: <36ace13f.516473@interlinx.qc.ca> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi to all I would like to know the meaning of the four numbers in the CropBox option of pdfLaTex. Are they the dimension in mm or in of the box? And which corners do they represent? \pdfpageattr={/CropBox [50 20 310 504]} Thank you __________________ Pierre Desjardins Sherbrooke, Québec __________________ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 15:04:29 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA15467 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:04:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA01089 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:57:23 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA01085 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:57:22 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA10206 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:57:17 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA25840 for pdftex@tug.org; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:57:15 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901252157.WAA25840@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: from "Nelson H. F. Beebe" at "Jan 25, 99 11:58:30 am" To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:57:15 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Before beginning any new work on the page and line breaking problem > in pdftex, it is important to look at previously published work in > this area. Two important papers are: I have the first one (breaking paragraphs into lines). It would be impossible to understand the algorithm described in TeX--The program without this paper. I have also a paper about breaking pages "an optimal pagination for typesetting systems", also by Plass. But it desribes a global optimalization. The paper also mentioned some project trying to implement the algorithm in the paper into TeX via two-pass processing. I am too young with TeX to know more details about that, but I suppose no such project has been finished. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 15:46:09 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA16578 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:46:07 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA01421 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:38:55 -0500 Received: from naima.Stanford.EDU (IDENT:root@naima.Stanford.EDU [36.120.0.196]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01418 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:38:53 -0500 Received: from math.stanford.edu (brock@naima.Stanford.EDU [36.120.0.196]) by naima.Stanford.EDU (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00617 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:38:52 -0800 Message-ID: <36ACF27B.C475D80F@math.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:38:51 -0800 From: Jeff Brock Reply-To: brock@gauss.stanford.edu Organization: Department of Math, Stanford University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.34 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: psfig??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Are there any plans to implement the \psfig command, using some ps->pdf converter? If not, is there a way to include pdf graphics using pdflatex? Thanks, Jeff -- ______________________________________________________ Jeffrey F. Brock Szego Assistant Professor Department of Mathematics Office: (650) 723-2228 Stanford University Fax: (650) 725-4066 Stanford, CA 94305 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 16:18:55 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA17360 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01747 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:11:56 -0500 Received: from rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu (rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu [164.107.171.29]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01744 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:11:54 -0500 Received: from gw2 (gw2.eng.ohio-state.edu [164.107.169.221]) by rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA22227; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:11:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901252311.SAA22227@rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: hubert@rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:11:23 -0500 To: brock@gauss.stanford.edu, pdftex@tug.org From: Chris Hubert Subject: Re: psfig??? In-Reply-To: <36ACF27B.C475D80F@math.stanford.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk You can include pdf graphics using the includegraphics command that comes with the graphics (or graphicx) package. Additionally, there is a little perl script someone has written to use ghostscript to convert eps to pdf. Its called epstopdf.pl... I forget exactly where I found it, but I bet if you go to the CTAN site and search it will show itself. > >Are there any plans to implement the >\psfig command, using some ps->pdf converter? > >If not, is there a way to include pdf graphics using >pdflatex? > >Thanks, > Jeff >-- >______________________________________________________ >Jeffrey F. Brock Szego Assistant Professor >Department of Mathematics Office: (650) 723-2228 >Stanford University Fax: (650) 725-4066 >Stanford, CA 94305 > > Chris Hubert Department of Mechanical Engineering The Ohio State University 206 West 18th Avenue Columbus, OH 43210-1107 (614) 292-2356 (Office) (614) 292-3163 (Fax) hubert@rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu Common sense.... .... is not so common Voltaire From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 16:47:04 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA18093 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 16:47:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA01985 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:40:13 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (andover.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.113]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA01981 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:40:10 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20677; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:46:34 GMT Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 00:46:34 GMT Message-Id: <199901260046.AAA20677@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: brock@gauss.stanford.edu CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <36ACF27B.C475D80F@math.stanford.edu> (message from Jeff Brock on Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:38:51 -0800) Subject: Re: psfig??? References: <36ACF27B.C475D80F@math.stanford.edu> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk \psfig command from the psfig package has been depreciated since latex had a standard interface to graphics inclusion five years ago:-) If you use the standard \includegraphics command it will just do the right thing if you give it a png or pdf file with pdftex. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Mon Jan 25 17:08:19 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA18681 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:08:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA02127 for pdftex-list; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:01:39 -0500 Received: from mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de (mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.1.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA02124 for ; Mon, 25 Jan 1999 19:01:33 -0500 Received: from remote142-59.home.uni-freiburg.de [132.230.142.59] by mailgateway1.uni-freiburg.de with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 104vwe-00051v-00; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:01:29 +0100 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19990126010113.093fde54@pop3.uni-freiburg.de> X-Sender: oberdiek@pop3.uni-freiburg.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:01:13 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org From: Heiko Oberdiek Subject: Re: psfig??? In-Reply-To: <199901252311.SAA22227@rclsgi.eng.ohio-state.edu> References: <36ACF27B.C475D80F@math.stanford.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk At 18:11 25.01.1999 -0500, Chris Hubert wrote: >You can include pdf graphics using the includegraphics command >that comes with the graphics (or graphicx) package. > >Additionally, there is a little perl script someone has written to use >ghostscript to convert eps to pdf. >Its called epstopdf.pl... I forget exactly where I found it, [...] http://www.tug.org/applications/pdftex/epstopdf >From Sebastian Rahtz. Yours sincerely Heiko From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 03:11:31 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA00484 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:11:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA03612 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 04:35:48 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA03609 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 04:35:46 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04204 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:35:45 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA20811 for pdftex@tug.org; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:35:43 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901260935.KAA20811@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: page breaking? To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:35:43 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi Chris, > I know that there has been some discussion of this. maybe people have > already said much the seam as me; if so, ap;ogies for the repitition. > > Improving on TeX's page-breaking has been studied by several people > for many years (at least 15 to my knowledge). > > Despite this I think we are still at the stage when we need some > really new and good (ie that give good output in a reasonable time) > algorithms. Only then can we see how TeX itself needs to (or could > usefully) change in order to implement them. > > The only reason for doing anything like this in pdfTeX alone would be if > pdf supports anything relevant beyond dvi: I claim that it does not > but you would know better than I. I know that TeX page breaking has been studied and many people have been trying to improve it. I don't know exactly the history as well as the state of this work. I started to use TeX just about 4-5 years ago when I chose the theme of my master thesis. I understand that I need to listen to other experienced TeX gurus. Thus this discussion. pdf output is a hack. When one needs to improve TeX line-breaking or page-breaking, there is not much difference between dvi and pdf, apart from some driver-level support. [btw, the HZ alg in pdftex works for dvi as well]. In the other hand pdf is a useful thing, and for me it is better to have my work based on pdftex. For a perfect solution, there is already eTeX/NTS. > > 1) use an external file to keep information about dimnesions of > > material in the main vertial list with two-pass processing; > > This is something Frank Mittelbach and I (some time ago) looked at. > > It can be generalised in a way that is deifnitely worth you looking at > (for eTeX but with obvious applications to writing pdf as well as dvi): > > there is some (potentially a lot) of useful information that TeX > throws away when it writes out a dvi file. What data structures > and interfaces are needed to preserve this. > > Comments: > > -- Some of it could be simply put, by eTeX, into a \special or a > pdf-specific equivalent; but it may nevewrtheless be better to have > a new structure for specific data. > > -- I guess that you use some of this (eg data about box dimensions) in > pdftex. > > -- Another extension of this idea could be very useful when (if?) PDF > and its readers support "document structure information". > > -- Note that keeping information rlevant to page-breaking somewhere > does not solve the problem of how to sensibly use that information > (and that is the difficult and important bit). > > > 2) try to improve page breaking only `localy' by keeping more than > > one page in memory and to the shipping when meet some conditions. > > I think that hns and others have explained that this type of thing is > alrady done in the more advanced Output Routines. > > Therefore the best way to start on this would be to look at what that > TeX code is doing! You will probably need to ask the authors and it > will probably be an unpopular question: but it will be a good exercise > for them to explain to you the algorithm they are using. > > The next stage would be to investigate what changes in TeX would help > the exising algorithms. actually TeX uses the best-fit alg for page breaking, because of the limitation of memory. two-pass processing or `local optimalization' is in fact a work around this problem. But I am not sure what is more complicated: to improve the page breaking, or to get it work with the rest of TeX (I mean possible conflicts with other actions during the output routine). > > I have no idea how it could be implemented yet, just want to > > discuss it first. > > Excellent: but I would predict that it `needs a lot more than an email > discussion before we get anywhwre near ay grand new concept that is > worth implementing. meanwhile the above tasks should keep busy anyone > who is intersted in this work. > > And this is probably not the right place for such discussions. > > > Any comments/suggestions are appreciated. > > I hope this makes sense. I probably should give you some references to > look at ... but I shall wait to see what response I get first. > > > A more wild prediction is that, whereas such developments are feasible > only to a very limited extent within eTeX, the wonderful new shiny OO > NTS will be perfectly tailored to support experiments with such new > ideas. I don't know where is the right place to discuss this topic, so tried to start it here first. What I hope to get is an overview of works that have been done in this field and related problems. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 03:33:52 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA00879 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 03:33:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA03940 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:18:01 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA03937 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:17:59 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id KAA29810; hop 0; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:08:51 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:14:48 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13997.37091.818730.869171@srahtz> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:54:43 +0000 (GMT) To: sai@isc.tamu.edu Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: cmr10.pfb In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Saikrishnan Gopalakrishnan writes: > > Where to download the cmr*.pfb fonts from? > CTAN. please see http://www.tug.org for basic TeX info > If .pfb is not directly avlbl, can I download a .afm > file and convert it to .pfb? um, no, never! .afm files contain metrics only sebastian From "Sebastian Rahtz " Tue Jan 26 04:43:08 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA02042 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 04:43:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id LAA05083; hop 0; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:33:57 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:42:48 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13997.42663.873700.265169@srahtz> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:27:35 +0000 (GMT) To: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <13996.49425.791640.136621@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <13996.49425.791640.136621@fell.open.ac.uk> Chris Rowley writes: > > But I think this maybe should transfer elsewhere: do you agree, Sebastian? > > I suspect that most people on this list are not really able to "keep their end up" in a discussion about page breaking algorithms. I know that I cant! its a shame the NTS list is dead as a doornail. the talk should be on there really. does NTS exist, by the way? what happened to Skoupy's work? Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 05:04:16 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA02379 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 05:04:14 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA04760 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:43:09 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA04757 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 06:43:07 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id LAA05086; hop 0; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:33:58 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:42:48 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13997.42663.873700.265169@srahtz> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:27:35 +0000 (GMT) To: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <13996.49425.791640.136621@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <13996.49425.791640.136621@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley writes: > > But I think this maybe should transfer elsewhere: do you agree, Sebastian? > > I suspect that most people on this list are not really able to "keep their end up" in a discussion about page breaking algorithms. I know that I cant! its a shame the NTS list is dead as a doornail. the talk should be on there really. does NTS exist, by the way? what happened to Skoupy's work? Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 07:23:14 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA04810 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 07:23:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA05557 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:03:27 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA05554 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:03:22 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.27]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4F11; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:03:16 +0100 Message-ID: <36AD9BFD.5A6D3C5D@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:42:05 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <13996.45227.632220.463774@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > -- Another extension of this idea could be very useful when (if?) PDF > and its readers support "document structure information". I'm working on that one. It's btw unrelated to pagebreaking -) > -- Note that keeping information rlevant to page-breaking somewhere > does not solve the problem of how to sensibly use that information > (and that is the difficult and important bit). Well, it would make it possible to change some settings in between, although a paragraph with leftovers on the next page would not benefit >From that. > I think that hns and others have explained that this type of thing is > alrady done in the more advanced Output Routines. Another thing to play with is applying hz on a per page level, in terms of: 'this page has one line left over (info saves in first pass by macro package written to file) so shrink the fonts please (and again provide info for another pass). Maybe I'll work this out as demo. Can be done upto some extend in macros. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 08:04:44 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA05772 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA05765 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:53:54 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA05762 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:53:47 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:53:28 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id OAA04709; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:53:21 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:53:20 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <36AD9BFD.5A6D3C5D@wxs.nl> References: <199901211933.UAA19782@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <13996.45227.632220.463774@fell.open.ac.uk> <36AD9BFD.5A6D3C5D@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13997.54349.525953.39214@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans > > -- Another extension of this idea could be very useful when (if?) PDF > > and its readers support "document structure information". > > I'm working on that one. Great: I should like to get some details; or is it undercover work still? > It's btw unrelated to pagebreaking -) Sure, but more likely to be immediately useful and related to the genral concept of getting info from TeX into the rest of the world. > > > -- Note that keeping information rlevant to page-breaking somewhere > > does not solve the problem of how to sensibly use that information > > (and that is the difficult and important bit). > > Well, it would make it possible to change some settings in between, > although a paragraph with leftovers on the next page would not benefit > from that. I think it could (but I do not think that integrating[1] paragrpah-breaking with page-breaking can be solved without NTS and the implementation of lots of stuff beyond that). [1] Thanh: is this an idea you have read about? It would be a major useful addition to any formatting program. > > > I think that hns and others have explained that this type of thing is > > alrady done in the more advanced Output Routines. > > Another thing to play with is applying hz on a per page level, Maybe before that do something on really applying hz with suitable fonts and better algorithms? Matthias Clasen has implemented some stuff for this (not just for pdf). I think that if we do this properly, URW may be prepared to cooperate in making the smart fonts available. > > Maybe I'll work this out as demo. Can be done upto some extend in > macros. More useful (at least to me and to NTS) would be an analysis of what models and data-structures it needs. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 09:47:16 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA08391 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:47:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA06128 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:29:38 -0500 Received: from naima.Stanford.EDU (IDENT:root@naima.Stanford.EDU [36.120.0.196]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA06125 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:29:35 -0500 Received: from math.stanford.edu (brock@naima.Stanford.EDU [36.120.0.196]) by naima.Stanford.EDU (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05159; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:29:32 -0800 Message-ID: <36ADED6C.89E66F7C@math.stanford.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:29:32 -0800 From: Jeff Brock Reply-To: brock@gauss.stanford.edu Organization: Department of Math, Stanford University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.34 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org CC: brock@gauss.stanford.edu Subject: Re: psfig??? References: <36ACF27B.C475D80F@math.stanford.edu> <199901260046.AAA20677@nag.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote: > > \psfig command from the psfig package has been depreciated since latex > had a standard interface to graphics inclusion five years ago:-) > > If you use the standard \includegraphics command it will just do the > right thing if you give it a png or pdf file with pdftex. > > David Question: I have just discovered the psfrag option - I had been using an out-of-date script to embed latex dvi characters in figures. How does pdftex/pdflatex feel about psfrag? I.e. if I save an illustrator document as .pdf with psfrag anchors, will psfrag still replace them with the tex characters as it would for an eps file using dvips? My experiments thus far have been unsuccessful. Additionally, I keep getting errors using the \includegraphics command with pdflatex as well. Note that psfrag works great with normal latex and dvips on my system (just discovered it, actually). Thanks, Jeff -- ______________________________________________________ Jeffrey F. Brock Szego Assistant Professor Department of Mathematics Office: (650) 723-2228 Stanford University Fax: (650) 725-4066 Stanford, CA 94305 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 10:22:03 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA09769 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:22:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06372 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:10:38 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06369 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:10:36 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.4]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA14E7; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:10:26 +0100 Message-ID: <36ADCD0B.9CF4A62F@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 15:11:23 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <199901260935.KAA20811@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh wrote: > Hi Chris, > > > I know that there has been some discussion of this. maybe people have > > already said much the seam as me; if so, ap;ogies for the repitition. Do be to humble. This list currently is one of the main places where discussions about future tex take place (apart from etex and eetex discussions which are separate threads). > pdf output is a hack. When one needs to improve TeX line-breaking or Come on, pdf output probaly saved tex! > actually TeX uses the best-fit alg for page breaking, because of the limitation > of memory. two-pass processing or `local optimalization' is in fact a work > around this problem. But I am not sure what is more complicated: to improve the > page breaking, or to get it work with the rest of TeX (I mean possible conflicts > with other actions during the output routine). Providing more info about the state/quality of the page is a first step. There is some discussion in the etex arena on this. > I don't know where is the right place to discuss this topic, so tried to > start it here first. What I hope to get is an overview of works that have been > done in this field and related problems. Willing to discuss, Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 10:22:20 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA09803 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:22:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06343 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:04:44 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06339 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:04:25 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id RAA19658; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:02:51 GMT Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:02:51 GMT Message-Id: <199901261702.RAA19658@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: brock@gauss.stanford.edu CC: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <36ADED6C.89E66F7C@math.stanford.edu> (message from Jeff Brock on Tue, 26 Jan 1999 08:29:32 -0800) Subject: Re: psfig??? References: <36ACF27B.C475D80F@math.stanford.edu> <199901260046.AAA20677@nag.co.uk> <36ADED6C.89E66F7C@math.stanford.edu> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > How does pdftex/pdflatex feel about psfrag? being a program it does not have feelings. If it did have feelings it would really really hate it with utmost loathing. > will psfrag still replace them with the tex characters as it would > for an eps file using dvips? no. > My experiments thus far have been unsuccessful. they will remain so. The `ps' in psfrag stands for postscript, which is a fully featured programming language, and you are trying to execute the commands on a pdf interpreter. Not only is this the wrong language, pdf hasn't really got any programming instructions at all. > Additionally, I keep getting errors using the > \includegraphics command with pdflatex as well. go on, give us a clue, what errors did you get? :-) Make sure that you specified the pdftex option, and that you have a new pdftex.def. (and a new pdftex, early versions could not include most pdf files). > Note that psfrag works great with normal latex and dvips on > my system (just discovered it, actually). the only way you can get this to work is to make a little document that just includes the eps file and the psfrag replacements. then run that through normal tex, and dvips -E to get a new eps file with the replacements made, then convert that to pdf and include that in your main document. The only other alternative would be to build a postscript rip into pdftex, so that it could include eps files and postscript replacements (and pstricks) on the fly without needing to convert to pdf first. I would have said this would be far too much work to implement (except that it is implemented in one of the commercial tex systems) David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 10:35:07 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA11170 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:35:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06471 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:22:31 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06454 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:21:41 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:17:56 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA04868; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:17:50 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:17:49 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <36ADCD0B.9CF4A62F@wxs.nl> References: <199901260935.KAA20811@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36ADCD0B.9CF4A62F@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13997.63493.744698.282728@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans wrote -- > (apart from etex and eetex > discussions which are separate threads). where is all this happening, and what is eetex??? > > > pdf output is a hack. When one needs to improve TeX line-breaking or > > Come on, pdf output probaly saved tex! and maybe tex outputting pdf will save (well, help) pdf. > > Providing more info about the state/quality of the page is a first step. > There is some discussion in the etex arena on this. But, as Sebastian remarked, where is this arena these days? > Willing to discuss, Definitely: I do not mind where it happens, but other readers may. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 10:41:35 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA11773 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:41:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06530 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:29:36 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06527 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:29:35 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.4]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA3CA6; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:29:24 +0100 Message-ID: <36ADFBEB.DF8E6ABE@wxs.nl> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:31:23 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <199901260935.KAA20811@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36ADCD0B.9CF4A62F@wxs.nl> <13997.63493.744698.282728@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > (apart from etex and eetex > > discussions which are separate threads). > > where is all this happening, and what is eetex??? Just across the north sea. eetex is something taco has written, based on specs we brought up long ago at the oldenburg meeting. Lots of list processing, eventually direct xml parsing. When things work 100% we hope it can merge into etex. > > > pdf output is a hack. When one needs to improve TeX line-breaking or > > > > Come on, pdf output probaly saved tex! > > and maybe tex outputting pdf will save (well, help) pdf. For me it does. -) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 10:52:25 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA12834 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:52:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06658 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:41:37 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA06653 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:41:34 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:41:15 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA04918; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:41:08 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:41:08 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <36ADFBEB.DF8E6ABE@wxs.nl> References: <199901260935.KAA20811@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36ADCD0B.9CF4A62F@wxs.nl> <13997.63493.744698.282728@fell.open.ac.uk> <36ADFBEB.DF8E6ABE@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13997.64904.157148.7656@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans > > > > (apart from etex and eetex > > > discussions which are separate threads). > > > > where is all this happening, and what is eetex??? > > Just across the north sea. > > eetex is something taco has written, based on specs we brought up long > ago at the oldenburg meeting. Lots of list processing, eventually direct > xml parsing. When things work 100% we hope it can merge into etex. Sounds very exciting; it would be nice to have some information about what has been done or is being done, just in case it does not provide what some of us think should be there:-). Why does everyone feel it is necesary to go off and work in secret these days? Is it the influence of Microsoft, or being in a Dev Ass? chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 11:09:06 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA13823 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:09:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA06878 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:56:44 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06874 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:56:41 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats (toucan.stats [163.1.20.20]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA01204; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:56:45 GMT Message-Id: <199901261756.RAA01204@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:56:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian Ripley Reply-To: Prof Brian Ripley Subject: Re: psfig??? To: brock@gauss.stanford.edu Cc: pdftex@tug.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: OerDjNeS40mHOmxKKtvfXA== X-Mailer: dtmail 1.2.0 CDE Version 1.2 SunOS 5.6 sun4m sparc Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > From: Jeff Brock > > David Carlisle wrote: > > > > \psfig command from the psfig package has been depreciated since latex As in at $3/year? > > had a standard interface to graphics inclusion five years ago:-) > > > > If you use the standard \includegraphics command it will just do the > > right thing if you give it a png or pdf file with pdftex. > > > > David > > Question: > > I have just discovered the psfrag option - I had been using an > out-of-date script to embed latex dvi characters in figures. > > How does pdftex/pdflatex feel about psfrag? I.e. if I save I should think it parses the first two letters and recoils in awe. > an illustrator document as .pdf with psfrag anchors, will > psfrag still replace them with the tex characters as it would > for an eps file using dvips? My experiments thus far have > been unsuccessful. > > Additionally, I keep getting errors using the > \includegraphics command with pdflatex as well. That is a very uninformative observation, so I will counter it by saying I keep on getting successes with that combination. > Note that psfrag works great with normal latex and dvips on > my system (just discovered it, actually). Yes, it has done for some years on most people's (it even got documented in the LaTeX Graphics Companion, alongside the standard graphics packages -- do read it), and Distilling the output to PDF works rather well too, but this is the pdftex group! -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 11:19:21 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA14137 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:19:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07042 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:09:29 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07039 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:09:27 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:09:19 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id SAA04956; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:09:12 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:09:12 +0000 (GMT) To: Prof Brian Ripley Cc: brock@gauss.stanford.edu, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: psfig??? In-Reply-To: <199901261756.RAA01204@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> References: <199901261756.RAA01204@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13998.798.176878.227425@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > As in at $3/year? Only that much? LaTeX itself depreciates much faster: at 100% a year! Not clear of what it is 100% but ... > Yes, it has done for some years on most people's (it even got > documented in the LaTeX Graphics Companion, alongside the standard > graphics packages -- do read it), Or, even better, buy it (unless you are waioting for it to depreciate too? > and Distilling the output to PDF > works rather well too, but this is the pdftex group! and the pagination algorithms group, and the etex group and general grumbles group and now the DPC-baiting group. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 11:27:49 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA14403 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:27:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07162 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:19:21 -0500 Received: from naima.Stanford.EDU (IDENT:root@naima.Stanford.EDU [36.120.0.196]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07158 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:19:19 -0500 Received: from math.stanford.edu (brock@naima.Stanford.EDU [36.120.0.196]) by naima.Stanford.EDU (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06588; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:19:17 -0800 Message-ID: <36AE0725.D0A980D6@math.stanford.edu> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:19:17 -0800 From: Jeff Brock Reply-To: brock@gauss.stanford.edu Organization: Department of Math, Stanford University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.34 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex@tug.org CC: Prof Brian Ripley , brock@gauss.stanford.edu Subject: includegraphics References: <199901261756.RAA01204@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > Additionally, I keep getting errors using the > > \includegraphics command with pdflatex as well. > > That is a very uninformative observation, so I will counter it > by saying I keep on getting successes with that combination. > My apologies - I was going to send back a more informative one but upgrading to the lates pdftex.def seems to have solved the problem. Thanks to all- Jeff ______________________________________________________ Jeffrey F. Brock Szego Assistant Professor Department of Mathematics Office: (650) 723-2228 Stanford University Fax: (650) 725-4066 Stanford, CA 94305 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 11:52:49 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA15212 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:52:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07559 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:43:06 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA07556 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:43:00 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 26 Jan 99 18:42:00 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19990126184200.A26728@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:42:00 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <13996.49425.791640.136621@fell.open.ac.uk> <13997.42663.873700.265169@srahtz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <13997.42663.873700.265169@srahtz>; from Sebastian Rahtz on Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 11:27:35AM +0000 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 11:27:35AM +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > I suspect that most people on this list are not really able to "keep > their end up" in a discussion about page breaking algorithms. I know > that I cant! I certainly cant. It is probably a bit late to ask, but what exactly is wrong with TeX's page-breaking? It's always struck me as perfectly good, if not perfect. But then I prefer the Authorized Version to the Revised Version. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 11:55:29 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA15391 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:55:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07599 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:46:47 -0500 Received: from donald.cybercomm.nl (donald.cybercomm.nl [194.235.113.5]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07596 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:46:44 -0500 Received: from PC709 (poort12-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl [194.235.118.12]) by donald.cybercomm.nl (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA13089; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:01:52 -0100 (MET) From: Taco Hoekwater Message-ID: <13998.3512.610000.611668@PC709> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:47:20 +0100 (W. Europe Standard Time) To: David Carlisle Cc: brock@gauss.stanford.edu, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: psfig??? In-Reply-To: <199901261702.RAA19658@nag.co.uk> References: <36ACF27B.C475D80F@math.stanford.edu> <199901260046.AAA20677@nag.co.uk> <36ADED6C.89E66F7C@math.stanford.edu> <199901261702.RAA19658@nag.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "DC" == David Carlisle writes: >> How does pdftex/pdflatex feel about psfrag? DC> being a program it does not have feelings. DC> If it did have feelings it would really really hate it with DC> utmost loathing. Hm. if pdftex was a person it would be a lot like me ;-) >> will psfrag still replace them with the tex characters as it would >> for an eps file using dvips? This sounds like you have once actually had this working in non-pdftex. That in itself qualifies you as both a guru and a person with masochistic tendencies (same applies to pstricks btw). DC> The only other alternative would be to build a postscript rip DC> into pdftex, so that it could include eps files and postscript DC> replacements (and pstricks) on the fly without needing to convert DC> to pdf first. I would have said this would be far too much work DC> to implement (except that it is implemented in one of the DC> commercial tex systems) With quite impressive results, actually. Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Tue Jan 26 12:05:07 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA16163 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:05:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA07799 for pdftex-list; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:55:49 -0500 Received: from donald.cybercomm.nl (donald.cybercomm.nl [194.235.113.5]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA07794 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:55:46 -0500 Received: from PC709 (poort12-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl [194.235.118.12]) by donald.cybercomm.nl (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA13825; Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:11:07 -0100 (MET) From: Taco Hoekwater Message-ID: <13998.4067.580000.429859@PC709> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:56:35 +0100 (W. Europe Standard Time) To: Chris Rowley Cc: Hans Hagen , Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <13997.64904.157148.7656@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <199901260935.KAA20811@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36ADCD0B.9CF4A62F@wxs.nl> <13997.63493.744698.282728@fell.open.ac.uk> <36ADFBEB.DF8E6ABE@wxs.nl> <13997.64904.157148.7656@fell.open.ac.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans (>>) & Chris (CR): >> eetex is something taco has written, based on specs we brought up >> long ago at the oldenburg meeting. Lots of list processing, >> eventually direct xml parsing. When things work 100% we hope it >> can merge into etex. CR> Sounds very exciting; it would be nice to have some information CR> about what has been done or is being done, just in case it does CR> not provide what some of us think should be there:-). Nothing secret about it. It's just a) alpha software at best and b) the sort of stuff I don't want to bother every list with. subscribe to ntg-toekomsttex@ntg.nl if you want to keep track of what is happening in Holland. [use "subscribe ntg-toekomsttex" as body and send to majordomo@ntg.nl]. For current eetex stuff, have a look at http://www.cybercomm.nl/~bittext/eetex/ Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 02:33:39 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA07664 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 02:33:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA09697 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:19:28 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA09694 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:19:24 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl (wkaxp1.wkap.nl [192.87.90.131]) by relay.surfnet.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21066 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:19:18 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J715P5KOI800I72Q@wkap.nl> for pdftex@tug.org; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:18:47 +0100 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:19:46 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: page breaking? In-reply-to: <19990126184200.A26728@maths.tcd.ie> To: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <13998.59458.266480.661380@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <13996.49425.791640.136621@fell.open.ac.uk> <13997.42663.873700.265169@srahtz> <19990126184200.A26728@maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy Murphy writes: Timothy> On Tue, Jan 26, 1999 at 11:27:35AM +0000, Sebastian Rahtz Timothy> wrote: >> I suspect that most people on this list are not really able to >> "keep their end up" in a discussion about page breaking >> algorithms. I know that I cant! Timothy> I certainly cant. Timothy> It is probably a bit late to ask, but what exactly is Timothy> wrong with TeX's page-breaking? It's always struck me as Timothy> perfectly good, if not perfect. Well, it's good, but not perfect. And it's always possible to improve things that are just good. TeX's page breaker is essentially a first-fit method: the first 'acceptable' break breaks the page, and the finished page leaves TeX's memory immediately. It follows that a "goodbreak" on page 22 might actually result in a terrible, horrendous break on page 23 that could have been avoided if TeX had looked forward a little. Besides that, there are some other problems and limitations to the page breaking algorithm as it is. Here are some examples of things that do not work: For instance, one of the things TeX does not do but that I would really like is the possibility to penalize (almost-)empty pages. For some documents, the document actually has enough flexibility (floats and such) to make sure that the final page of a chapter is at least half full. But because of TeX's first-fit algorithm, this flexibility is never used. Another is optimizing across a spread (along with alignment problems, but that's a slightly different topic). If TeX would consider these two pages to be one block, placement of floats could improve quite a lot. There are situations where a club or widow is far more acceptable than messing with the vertical spacing of the pages (like in a novel). Most of these "problems" with TeX's page-breaking are more noticeable in not very scientific documents: documents that have lots and lots of floats and almost no displays (and are possibly in multi-column) are the trickiest things to typeset. Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 03:28:59 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA08622 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 03:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA09982 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:15:33 -0500 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA09978 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 05:15:31 -0500 Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01373; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:15:30 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA09860; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:16:30 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:16:30 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199901271016.LAA09860@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Han The Thanh Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <199901260935.KAA20811@anxur.fi.muni.cz> References: <199901260935.KAA20811@anxur.fi.muni.cz> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk » I don't know where is the right place to discuss this topic, so tried to » start it here first. What I hope to get is an overview of works that have been » done in this field and related problems. I'd say that, given the moving speed of pdftex relatively to etex/nts, please keep the discussion here, and go ahead ! Thierry Bouche, Grenoble. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 04:33:06 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA09709 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 04:33:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA10204 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:14:05 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA10201 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:14:03 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id LAA20246; hop 0; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:04:52 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:13:33 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <13998.60886.225130.904534@srahtz> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:43:34 +0000 (GMT) To: ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Cc: brock@gauss.stanford.edu, pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: psfig??? In-Reply-To: <199901261756.RAA01204@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> References: <199901261756.RAA01204@toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Prof Brian Ripley writes: > > Note that psfrag works great with normal latex and dvips on > > my system (just discovered it, actually). > > Yes, it has done for some years on most people's (it even got > documented in the LaTeX Graphics Companion, alongside the standard reluctantly. i thought it was a horrid hack when i first met it, and never saw much reason to change my views.... > graphics packages -- do read it) as Chris says, buy as well as read. this is my holiday money you are talking about sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 07:37:31 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA13038 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 07:37:29 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA10635 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:20:11 -0500 Received: from esemetz.ese-metz.fr (esemetz.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.212]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10632 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:20:08 -0500 Received: from neuromancer (neuromancer.ese-metz.fr [193.48.224.95]) by esemetz.ese-metz.fr (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA13429; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:20:02 +0100 Message-ID: <004f01be4a00$ec0923f0$5fe030c1@esemetz.fr> From: "Fabrice Popineau" To: "Hans Hagen" Cc: Subject: Re: pdftex 13a / Win32 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:25:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk The 0.13a win32 binaries are available from : ftp://ftp.ese-metz.fr/pub/TeX/win32-beta/pdftex-0.13a-win32.zip Beware : they are based on the latest (experimental) web2c-7.3beta0/teTeX-0.9 Also, the mktex* programs have been reworked, so please report anything strange. Fabrice From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 08:47:28 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA14774 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 08:47:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA11162 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:25:10 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA11159 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:25:08 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.75]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA4269; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:23:58 +0100 Message-ID: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:26:12 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex , Erik Frambach Subject: pdftex manual Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk The new pdftex manual can be downloaded from: http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-l letter version http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-a A4 version The documents are typeset single sided. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 09:24:01 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA15796 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:23:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA11306 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:00:02 -0500 Received: from phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca (root@phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca [207.253.145.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA11303 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:00:01 -0500 From: pierred@Interlinx.qc.ca Received: from 046.utc-3.Sherbrooke.InterLinx.qc.ca (046.utc-3.Sherbrooke.InterLinx.qc.ca [207.253.182.66]) by phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09193 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:59:57 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: PdfLatex and hyperref Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:59:58 -0500 Message-ID: <36b037f3.1300758@interlinx.qc.ca> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi to all If I use hyperref package, a page always open with that page and the bookmarks in Acrobat. But if I remove \usepackage[pdftex]{hyperref}, the page opens without the bookmarks (the action that I want). Did I miss something? Note also that I use a crop (\pdfpageattr{/CropBox [116 420 452 688]}) Thanks __________________ Pierre Desjardins Sherbrooke, Québec __________________ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 09:26:19 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA15824 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA11349 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:07:58 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA11346 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:07:50 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:07:10 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA05804; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:07:03 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:07:02 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex , Erik Frambach Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13999.14678.292904.590349@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans wrote -- > The new pdftex manual can be downloaded from: > ... Or, better: > http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-l.pdf letter version > http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-a.pdf A4 version Thanks, chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 10:27:03 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA17747 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:27:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA11767 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:15:22 -0500 Received: from lhe.physics.lsa.umich.edu (IDENT:sanders@lhe.physics.lsa.umich.edu [141.211.96.32]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11764 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:15:21 -0500 Received: (from sanders@localhost) by lhe.physics.lsa.umich.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA20700; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:15:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:15:09 -0500 From: Michael Sanders To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex , Erik Frambach Subject: Re: pdftex manual Message-ID: <19990127121509.A20676@umich.edu> Reply-To: Michael Sanders Mail-Followup-To: Hans Hagen , pdftex , Erik Frambach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95us Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, Jan 27, 1999 at 04:26:12PM +0100, Hans Hagen wrote: > The new pdftex manual can be downloaded from: > > > http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-l letter version > http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-a A4 version That should be http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-l.pdf letter version http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-a.pdf A4 version -- (T.) Michael Sanders internet: sanders@umich.edu Physics Department URL: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~sanders University of Michigan phone: 734/936-0799 Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1120 FAX: 734/764-6843 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 10:47:43 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA18450 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:47:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA11912 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:33:32 -0500 Received: from aida.inet.cz (root@aida.inet.cz [194.196.192.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA11905 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:33:27 -0500 Received: from SnowWhite.inet.cz (IDENT:root@dialup4.inet.cz [194.196.193.4]) by aida.inet.cz (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA23710 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:31:05 +0100 Received: (from pavel@localhost) by SnowWhite.inet.cz (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18197; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:05:05 +0100 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: pdfTeX-0.13a with TIFF support X-Operating-System: Linux 2.2.0 on Intel, Linux 2.2.0 on SPARC Organization: INET a.s., Kralovopolska 139, Brno, 60112, Czech Republic X-URL-PGP: http://www.inet.cz/~pjanik X-Phone: +420 5 41321276 ext. 171, +420 5 41321251 ext. 17 X-Spam: No unsolicited e-mail. 500 dollars per message proof-reading for unsolicited e-mail. X-Not-Receiving-Mail-From: mrp.cz, hotmail.com, post.cz, email.cz, usa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 From: Pavel.Janik@inet.cz (Pavel Janik ml.) Date: 27 Jan 1999 18:05:03 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 11 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, see ftp://ftp.cstug.cz/pub/tex/local/cstug/janik/ There is TIFF patch and my Install script which can be useful for you even if you do not want to install TIFF support. -- Pavel Janík ml. Pavel.Janik@inet.cz From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 12:07:15 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA20885 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:07:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id NAA12320 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:53:22 -0500 Received: from toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk [163.1.20.20]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA12317 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:53:11 -0500 Received: from max187.public.ox.ac.uk (max187.public.ox.ac.uk [192.76.27.187]) by toucan.stats.ox.ac.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA03929; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:53:15 GMT Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:54:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Prof Brian D Ripley To: Hans Hagen cc: pdftex , Erik Frambach Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Hans Hagen wrote: > The new pdftex manual can be downloaded from: > > http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-l letter version > http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-a A4 version > > The documents are typeset single sided. Not only do the files end in .pdf, but I think having the first page full of literal PDF without warning us is a mean trick. Over a slow download it looks exactly as if the file has got corrupted and got the reader confused! At least, it confused this reader until I got the next page to arrive here some minutes later. -- Brian D. Ripley, ripley@stats.ox.ac.uk Professor of Applied Statistics, http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~ripley/ University of Oxford, Tel: +44 1865 272861 (self) 1 South Parks Road, +44 1865 272860 (secr) Oxford OX1 3TG, UK Fax: +44 1865 272595 From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 12:25:02 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA21416 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:25:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA12419 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:15:57 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA12416 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:15:56 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:15:48 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id TAA06006; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:15:41 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:15:40 +0000 (GMT) To: Prof Brian D Ripley Cc: Hans Hagen , pdftex , Erik Frambach Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > Not only do the files end in .pdf, but I think having the first > page full of literal PDF without warning us is a mean trick. Over > a slow download it looks exactly as if the file has got corrupted and > got the reader confused! At least, it confused this reader until I > got the next page to arrive here some minutes later. I tend to agree: mine just complained abiut not having the right plug-in (without even saying what was needed) and then dumped all the pdf code onto the output window, thus rather spoiling the Oh so cool design. Although it is nice to have this new version, maybe this is not the place for trying to be clever? Better to concentrate on filling Section 8, and even writing a Section 9 on the more formal semantics, please please please!! I shall even offer to help on that bit! Having lots of clever examples in the manual would be fine! But please put them in an optional file. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Wed Jan 27 13:20:50 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA23012 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:20:43 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id PAA12689 for pdftex-list; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:08:51 -0500 Received: from kraken.apl.washington.edu (kraken76.apl.washington.edu [128.95.76.25]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA12686 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:08:49 -0500 Received: from apl.washington.edu (galiano.apl.washington.edu [128.95.96.142]) by kraken.apl.washington.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA02794; Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:05:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:05:01 -0800 From: Jody Klymak Organization: APL/UW X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: thanh@informatics.muni.cz CC: Hans Hagen , "Rahtz, Sebastian" , pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Great job! I have a couple of nits and one substantive suggestion, which you can feel free to ignore in the light of the effort it must have taken to make this document... The nits are wrt hypereferences in the document: The table of contents is hyper-referenced, but pressing a link resizes the page to 100% which is well-nigh unreadable on my computer. It'd be nice to let it stay where the user sets it. Second, none of the author's email addresses are hyperreferenced. Since one of the fun things about PDF is the hyper-references, I thought I'd mention this. (BTW, if it makes a difference I'm on a Win NT, 4.0: AR 3.02) The substantive suggestion is to include a bit more about using pdflatex (as opposed to pdftex). A newbie's reading may make them want to use the pdf primitives instead of the excellent hooks into LaTeX provided by Sebastian (and others) in packages like hyperef and graphicx. Yet information about these packages (which 90% of the users should probably confine themselves to - I know I do) is relegated to the back of the manual. Perhaps simply moving "Macro Packages Supported by PDFTeX" to just after "Setting up fonts" and perhaps renaming it to "Creating LaTeX documents with PDFTeX/LaTeX" would help a new user get going. The more substantive details can be left for package designers and people who prefer writing in pure TeX/PDFTeX. Just a suggestion. Thanks for all the great work! Cheers, Jody > > On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, Hans Hagen wrote: > > > The new pdftex manual can be downloaded from: > > > > http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-l letter version > > http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-a A4 version > > > > The documents are typeset single sided. -- Jody Klymak APL/School of Oceanography, mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu University of Washington (206)-685-9080 http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 04:02:59 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA13158 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:02:58 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA13907 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:36:08 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA13903 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:36:03 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.21.127]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA194; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:36:01 +0100 Message-ID: <36B0255B.4362099C@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:52:43 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jody Klymak CC: thanh@informatics.muni.cz, "Rahtz, Sebastian" , pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Jody Klymak wrote: > The nits are wrt hypereferences in the document: The table of contents is > hyper-referenced, but pressing a link resizes the page to 100% which is > well-nigh unreadable on my computer. It'd be nice to let it stay where the user > sets it. Second, none of the author's email addresses are hyperreferenced. > Since one of the fun things about PDF is the hyper-references, I thought I'd > mention this. (BTW, if it makes a difference I'm on a Win NT, 4.0: AR 3.02) > ... Ok. I'll look into it. > Just a suggestion. Thanks for all the great work! Thanks. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 04:03:04 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA13169 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:03:03 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA13906 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:36:05 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA13899 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:36:02 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.21.127]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA11B6; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:35:57 +0100 Message-ID: <36B024D7.BF7E014B@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:50:31 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > I tend to agree: mine just complained abiut not having the right > plug-in (without even saying what was needed) and then dumped all the > pdf code onto the output window, thus rather spoiling the Oh so cool design. Well, no specific plug in is used. I'm aware of one (standard) plug in that can give problems when not 'update' (the form one) but there is nothing javascript or form in it. Just plain stupid pdf. > Although it is nice to have this new version, maybe this is not the > place for trying to be clever? Better to concentrate on filling Hm. Nothing clever about this document. I simply lack the time do add clever things. > Section 8, and even writing a Section 9 on the more formal semantics, please The formal stuff. I need to read the tex book about that. Never wrote one. > Having lots of clever examples in the manual would be fine! But > please put them in an optional file. I tend to say that the pdftex manual is primary a place where everything about pdftex can be found, if only to keep everyone involved in development and installation happy. I foresee that more will be added (examples, backgrounds, etc). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 04:52:37 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA14063 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:52:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA14048 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:25:48 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA14045 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:24:29 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl (wkaxp1.wkap.nl [192.87.90.131]) by relay.surfnet.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA00918; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:20:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J72O8QY9JK00JRQ7@wkap.nl>; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:20:00 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:20:59 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-reply-to: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> To: Jody Klymak Cc: thanh@informatics.muni.cz, Hans Hagen , "Rahtz, Sebastian" , pdftex Message-id: <14000.22059.525686.653807@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Jody" == Jody Klymak writes: Jody> The nits are wrt hypereferences in the document: The table Jody> of contents is hyper-referenced, but pressing a link resizes Jody> the page to 100% which is well-nigh unreadable on my Jody> computer. It'd be nice to let it stay where the user sets Jody> it. I'd say: remove the links in the contents as well. It's basically a print-document (and it also has an outline tree if you really want to jump). Jody> The substantive suggestion is to include a bit more about Jody> using pdflatex (as opposed to pdftex). A newbie's reading Jody> relegated to the back of the manual. Perhaps simply moving Jody> "Macro Packages Supported by PDFTeX" to just after "Setting Jody> up fonts" and perhaps renaming it to "Creating LaTeX Jody> documents with PDFTeX/LaTeX" would help a new user get Jody> going. The more substantive details can be left for package Jody> designers and people who prefer writing in pure TeX/PDFTeX. This is the pdfTeX manual, so I vote that it stays largely as is. Perhaps include a pointer to the hyperref & context docs, but that should be enough. Chris> I tend to agree: mine just complained abiut not having the right Chris> plug-in (without even saying what was needed) and then dumped all the Chris> pdf code onto the output window, thus rather spoiling the Oh so cool design. Chris> Having lots of clever examples in the manual would be fine! But Chris> please put them in an optional file. Chris, you are overexaggerating just a little here, I think. The "missing plug-in" is a bug of course, but besides that this is a very very plain document without any tricks. Chris> Although it is nice to have this new version, maybe this is not the Chris> place for trying to be clever? Better to concentrate on filling Chris> Section 8, and even writing a Section 9 on the more formal semantics, please Chris> please please!! I shall even offer to help on that bit! This is what section 8 is _supposed_ to contain. -- Some remarks of my own: There are quite some typos still and some of the grammar does not sound completely right to me (allthough my english is not good enough to fix the latter). Maybe one of the native speakers could have a look at that. I could not follow the section on hz font optimization at all. There are some very important typos there I think, and the explanation itself is also quite unclear to me. The manual should mention how to create .pgc files, I think. Thanh, the pdftex files still will not print on my hp4000n unless a) I re-distill or b) use pcl mode. all other printers I have are fine, as well as using ghostscript on the written PS file for the hp. Do we still need to research this? Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 05:20:06 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA14518 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 05:20:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA14242 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:56:58 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA14238 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:56:55 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:55:37 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id LAA06552; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:55:28 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:55:27 +0000 (GMT) To: Taco Hoekwater Cc: Jody Klymak , thanh@informatics.muni.cz, Hans Hagen , "Rahtz, Sebastian" , pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <14000.22059.525686.653807@localhost> References: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> <14000.22059.525686.653807@localhost> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco wrote -- > Chris> Having lots of clever examples in the manual would be fine! But > Chris> please put them in an optional file. > > Chris, you are overexaggerating just a little here, I think. When did I not? If I was a language, I would be like hyperref! > The "missing plug-in" is a bug of course, but besides that this is a > very very plain document without any tricks. Great; but this was not clear from the reactions I heard. And who knows what people may be tempted to add in the future. My point is that we do want examples of the bells and whistles, but not added within the basic manual. > > Chris> Although it is nice to have this new version, maybe this is not the > Chris> place for trying to be clever? Better to concentrate on filling > Chris> Section 8, and even writing a Section 9 on the more formal semantics, please > Chris> please please!! I shall even offer to help on that bit! > > This is what section 8 is _supposed_ to contain. Good: it is headed `syntax' at present and it is difficult to tell from its current contents:-). > > There are quite some typos still and some of the grammar does not > sound completely right to me (allthough my english is not good enough > to fix the latter). Maybe one of the native speakers could have a look > at that. I may be able to help with that (but I shall probably start asking awkward qestions about what it is supposed to mean:-). But not during the next two weeks. > > I could not follow the section on hz font optimization at all. There > are some very important typos there I think, and the explanation > itself is also quite unclear to me. Good to hear I am not alone: all those percentages confused me to start with. But it was also good to read that some progress has been made towards doing what HZ intended (with suitable fonts, of course). There is a lot of interesting stuff to implement there in the TeX internals; much more fun than page-breaking:-). chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 06:36:02 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA15890 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:36:01 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA14784 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:21:50 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA14779 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:21:39 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:21:30 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA06738; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:21:21 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:21:20 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <36B024D7.BF7E014B@wxs.nl> References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> <36B024D7.BF7E014B@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14000.25560.783404.337978@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans > > Section 8, and even writing a Section 9 on the more formal semantics, please > > The formal stuff. I need to read the tex book about that. Never wrote > one. It may be better to start from what Peter B wrote for etex: although obviously you will need to stare very hard at the TeXbook, and at the new code, to get some bits right. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 06:43:11 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA16046 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:43:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA14854 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:28:42 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA14851 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:28:39 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.182]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA7177; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:28:25 +0100 Message-ID: <36B06681.E9AEA74F@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:30:41 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex Subject: manuals Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi Concerning the manual: (1) I've disabled the default ResetForm 'named action'. Although pretty legal 1.2 PDF code, there are people around with old viewers, that fail on it. (2) I made the url's active. Let's hope the old viewers don't fail that one, because like the form reset, it's part of the PDF 1.2 spec. (3) As said before, there are still gaps to fill in. Be patient. (4) Concerning pseudo hz, it's still experimental, subjected to changes, and adding examples would make the file bigger than needed. I do have a nice demo of this feature, but I'm still not sure of posting it. (5) More sophisticated examples can be found in other documents, like the www.ntg.nl/context/zipped/1998-001.zip (there are no plans to add this kind of examples to the pdftex manual). The manual can be downloaded from: http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-l.pdf letter version http://frambach.eco.rug.nl/pragma/pdftex/pdftex-a.pdf A4 version The documents are (like the previous ones) optimized, so slow downloading is not due to the document. The title page background is just an pdf image of the sample file used to explain some pdf characteristics later on. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 07:07:46 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA16614 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:07:45 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA14949 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:48:05 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA14946 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:48:01 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:45:34 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA06769; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:45:26 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:45:25 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex Subject: Re: manuals In-Reply-To: <36B06681.E9AEA74F@wxs.nl> References: <36B06681.E9AEA74F@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14000.26943.633099.90830@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans wrote -- > (1) I've disabled the default ResetForm 'named action'. Although pretty > legal 1.2 PDF code, there are people around with old viewers, that fail > on it. OK here now, thanks. > The title page background is > just an pdf image of the sample file used to explain some pdf > characteristics later on. OH!!!!! Silly me: I thought the reader was just dumping random code on the screen. Another great design concept:-)? chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 07:13:06 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA16694 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:13:04 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA15022 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:59:08 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA15019 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:59:05 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl (wkaxp1.wkap.nl [192.87.90.131]) by relay.surfnet.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA07220 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:59:02 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J72TR6TCMO00IKKD@wkap.nl> for pdftex@tug.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:58:25 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:59:24 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-reply-to: <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk> To: pdftex Message-id: <14000.31564.17483.99375@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> <14000.22059.525686.653807@localhost> <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk (deleted all Cc's, afaik they are all unnecesary) >> The "missing plug-in" is a bug of course, but besides that this >> is a very very plain document without any tricks. Chris> Great; but this was not clear from the reactions I heard. Chris> And who knows what people may be tempted to add in the Chris> future. My point is that we do want examples of the bells Chris> and whistles, but not added within the basic manual. Agree on that. >> I could not follow the section on hz font optimization at >> all. There are some very important typos there I think, and the >> explanation itself is also quite unclear to me. Chris> Good to hear I am not alone: all those percentages confused Chris> me to start with. Let me try to sum up how I *think* it works: ------------------------------------- The new syntax for \font is: \font -> at | scaled | -> | -> stretch | shrink | step -> 0 .. 1000 \efcode is type , so it behaves like e.g. \sfcode: \efcode<8-bit number> Additionally, "stretch" and "shrink" default to "0". if "stretch" is specified, and so is "step", then "step" has to be smaller than "stretch" if "shrink" is specified, and so is "step", then "step" has to be smaller than "shrink" if either "stretch" or "shrink" is larger than "0", then if "step" was not specified or specified as "0", then it defaults to "5" (this takes place after defaulting "stretch" and "shrink") It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says "1% steps are used", that should be "0.5% steps are used". if neither "stretch" nor "shrink" are larger than "0", then "step" defaults to "0" as well. \efcodes default to "1000" -------------------------------------- All units for "stretch", "shrink", "step" and \efcodes are in permilles. It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says "in this example a 5% one", that should be "a 0.5% one". And now, whether or not something happens depends on the setting of \pdfadjustspacing: IFCASE \pdfadjustspacing CASE 0: do nothing; exactly like TeX itself would. This is the default. CASE 1: This case uses normal fonts, but uses the added keywords "stretch" and "shrink" to \font to get the needed limits. "step" is ignored. The total possible stretch and shrink of any char is it's (\efcode/1000) * (font stretch|font shrink). The actual horizontal scaling in the output is done by changing the transformation matrix. CASE 2: This case uses "real" fonts. behind your back, pdftex invents filenames for "step"ped fonts (using the rules above to determine "step", "stretch" and "shrink" If you say: \font\t=cmr10 stretch 10 shrink 5 step 5 then pdftex creates the new font file names cmr10+10.tfm cmr10+5.tfm cmr10-5.tfm and loads those fonts instead of simply scaling one font. There is no available to refer to these implied fonts It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says "somefont+10 or somefont-15", both cases should be "somefile". Now something will happen, and this is where I got lost, even in the source ... Thanh or Hans, please help! ENDCASES Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 07:14:28 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA16744 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:14:27 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA15013 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:58:17 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA15009 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:58:13 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:57:07 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id NAA06792; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:56:56 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:56:55 +0000 (GMT) To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: Non-member submission from ["Julio G. Dix" ] In-Reply-To: <13967.42677.344859.282537@srahtz> References: <199812161607.LAA17942@tug.org> <13943.56354.129808.759392@srahtz> <13953.20949.725082.283742@fell.open.ac.uk> <13967.42677.344859.282537@srahtz> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14000.27575.931991.330068@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian Rahtz wrote (way back last year)-- > > > PDF annotations use a fixed encoding and font. > > > > Hmmm, approx. > in what sense "approx"? Well, pdf claims to allow for other encodings but none are yet allowed. What is really needed for some things is to allow any font encoding to be read in. > > > > The text is not processed by TeX at all. > > > > Errr, mmmm? I thought we had eventually found out that it is: maybe > > you need that technical documentation as much as i do! > maybe. but i see no evidence yet to change my statement. can you > supply some? Well, your hush-hush stuff on the LaTeX pdfdoc encoding assumes that the contents are expanded but nothing else (I think) ... but without the documentation I am unsure if this is what happens. chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 07:52:37 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA17484 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:52:36 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA15488 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:38:50 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA15485 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:38:48 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.167]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA529F; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:38:13 +0100 Message-ID: <36B076E3.CFBD2ED1@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:40:35 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley CC: pdftex Subject: Re: manuals References: <36B06681.E9AEA74F@wxs.nl> <14000.26943.633099.90830@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > > The title page background is > > just an pdf image of the sample file used to explain some pdf > > characteristics later on. > > OH!!!!! Silly me: I thought the reader was just dumping random code on > the screen. Another great design concept:-)? Yeah. It also demonstrates that pdftex is capable of including another pdf document! It's a sort of 'Hello world' one. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 08:21:50 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA18096 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:21:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA15720 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:07:00 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA15715 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:06:46 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl (wkaxp1.wkap.nl [192.87.90.131]) by relay.surfnet.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA09948 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:06:34 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J72W5137WG00JOP2@wkap.nl> for pdftex@tug.org; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:06:03 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:07:05 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: manuals In-reply-to: <36B06681.E9AEA74F@wxs.nl> To: pdftex Message-id: <14000.35625.265050.967911@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <36B06681.E9AEA74F@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Hans" == Hans Hagen writes: Hans> Hi Concerning the manual: Hans> (1) I've disabled the default ResetForm 'named Hans> action'. Although pretty legal 1.2 PDF code, there are Hans> people around with old viewers, that fail on it. Hans> (2) I made the url's active. Let's hope the old viewers Hans> don't fail that one, because like the form reset, it's part Hans> of the PDF 1.2 spec. Error is gone now, thanks. Reader 3.0 for Linux btw, and the exact error message was: The plug-in required by this 'ResetForm' action is unavailable. Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 09:40:40 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA20119 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:40:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16641 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:24:08 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA16636 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:24:04 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 28 Jan 99 16:23:56 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19990128162355.A13705@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:23:55 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> <14000.22059.525686.653807@localhost> <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk>; from Chris Rowley on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 11:55:27AM +0000 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I may have misunderstood, but would it be possible to have the original LaTeX file as well, assuming that the output was produced with pdftex ? -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 09:41:49 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA20170 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:41:48 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16670 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:27:17 -0500 Received: from portal.aerojet.com (portal.aerojet.com [192.149.4.254]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA16667 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:27:14 -0500 Received: (smapu@localhost) by portal.aerojet.com (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA18342; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:27:07 -0800 Received: from mail1-az.aerojet.com(159.4.1.8) by portal.aerojet.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018312; Thu Jan 28 08:26:42 1999 Received: from azu-public1.aes.com ([159.4.100.109]) by radon.aes.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA1654075 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:18:58 -0800 Received: by azu-public1.aes.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:26:42 -0800 Message-ID: <38CA0FDBBDADD211BFAA00805F152667241939@azu-mail2.aes.com> From: MARK.WROTH@aerojet.com (Wroth, Mark) To: pdftex Subject: RE: pdftex manual Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:26:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk I read the manual rather quickly, and so will remain silent on most of the issues, but I did want to comment on the discussion excerpted below. This manual has at least two audiences: people trying to write macro packages which use the PDF features of pdfTeX, and people trying to write documents which will have PDF files as (one of) their primary output formats. (It may also have a third, in people who are trying to maintain pdfTeX itself, but I suspect it contains too little detail for them.) Short of writing two separate manuals, both audiences should be considered. Jody's comment is directed towards the latter audience, Taco's toward the former. As a result, I have two suggestions: Expand the "Introduction" section (possibly by adding a section between it and the discussion of PDF) to include a "Organization of this Document" section. This would point out what the major topics covered are and where they are (and no, I don't think the table of contents is adequate to this purpose). Consider reorganizing the manual to the following general outline: I. Introduction, purpose and organization. Among its other topics, this section should answer the question "Do I need this software package?". II. Installation. "How do I get pdfTeX running?" I would move some of the detailed discussions on fonts to an appendix, leaving just installation issues here, but I don't feel strongly about it. III. Usage Overview. "What do I need to do to make use of pdfTeX?" This would include basic pointers to macro packages, perhaps with a brief overview of what the package does (when I brought up pdfTeX for the first time, I thought I had to write my own macros to do essentially what hyperref does; knowing up front that hyperref existed would have been helpful). IV. Graphics in pdfTeX. pdfTeX imposes some limits on what kinds of graphics can be included, and apparently requires special handling on at least some of those that it does include (for example, it does not appear to be true that an arbitrary one page PDF file can be included as a graphic). This is a thorny area for all TeX systems, and pdfTeX breaks the common paradigm of using eps graphics by preference (that's not a complaint -- it just points out an area that users need to know about). I'd like to read this section myself, as there are subtle things going on here between PDF and pdfTeX that I don't understand. V. pdfTeX "primitives". All the gory details a macro package writer needs to know, and that a general user might want to know to solve a specific problem. Finally, I'd like to comment that writing a good software manual is hard work, both in the execution and in twisting your mind from the development mindset to the point of view of a user who is not familiar (and may not want to be familiar) with all of the things a developer worries about. Han, Sebastian, and Hans have done better than most freeware authors, and should be commended for that. -----Original Message----- From: Taco Hoekwater [mailto:taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl] Sent: Thursday, January 28, 1999 4:21 AM To: Jody Klymak Cc: thanh@informatics.muni.cz; Hans Hagen; Rahtz, Sebastian; pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual >>>>> "Jody" == Jody Klymak writes: [...] Jody> The substantive suggestion is to include a bit more about Jody> using pdflatex (as opposed to pdftex). A newbie's reading Jody> relegated to the back of the manual. Perhaps simply moving Jody> "Macro Packages Supported by PDFTeX" to just after "Setting Jody> up fonts" and perhaps renaming it to "Creating LaTeX Jody> documents with PDFTeX/LaTeX" would help a new user get Jody> going. The more substantive details can be left for package Jody> designers and people who prefer writing in pure TeX/PDFTeX. This is the pdfTeX manual, so I vote that it stays largely as is. Perhaps include a pointer to the hyperref & context docs, but that should be enough. [....] From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 10:14:21 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA21138 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:14:20 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16996 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:53:45 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA16993 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:53:43 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:53:24 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id QAA07103; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:53:13 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:53:12 +0000 (GMT) To: Timothy Murphy Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <19990128162355.A13705@maths.tcd.ie> References: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> <14000.22059.525686.653807@localhost> <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk> <19990128162355.A13705@maths.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14000.38184.623783.894063@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Tim > > I may have misunderstood, err, yes, maybe! > but would it be possible to have the original LaTeX file as well, > assuming that the output was produced with pdftex ? I think that may not be a politically acceptable statement: have you never heard of post-LaTeXism? ... every macro is being deconstructed now! ... and They no longer issue bulls! chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 10:21:10 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA21334 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:21:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA16984 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:53:17 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA16981 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:53:15 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.160]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAA74; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:52:50 +0100 Message-ID: <36B0966A.F2F77FB4@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:55:06 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater CC: pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> <14000.22059.525686.653807@localhost> <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk> <14000.31564.17483.99375@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > The new syntax for \font is: > > \font > > -> at | scaled | > -> | > -> stretch | shrink | > step > -> 0 .. 1000 > > \efcode is type , so it behaves like e.g. \sfcode: > > \efcode<8-bit number> > > Additionally, > > "stretch" and "shrink" default to "0". > > if "stretch" is specified, and so is "step", then "step" > has to be smaller than "stretch" > > if "shrink" is specified, and so is "step", then "step" > has to be smaller than "shrink" > > if either "stretch" or "shrink" is larger than "0", then if > "step" was not specified or specified as "0", then it > defaults to "5" > (this takes place after defaulting "stretch" and "shrink") > > It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says > "1% steps are used", that should be "0.5% steps are used". Ok. > if neither "stretch" nor "shrink" are larger than "0", then > "step" defaults to "0" as well. > > \efcodes default to "1000" > > -------------------------------------- > All units for "stretch", "shrink", "step" and \efcodes are in > permilles. > > It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says > "in this example a 5% one", that should be "a 0.5% one". Ok. > And now, whether or not something happens depends on the setting of > \pdfadjustspacing: > > IFCASE \pdfadjustspacing > > CASE 0: do nothing; exactly like TeX itself would. This is the default. > > CASE 1: This case uses normal fonts, but uses the added keywords > "stretch" and "shrink" to \font to get the needed limits. > "step" is ignored. Thanh? > The total possible stretch and shrink of any char is > it's (\efcode/1000) * (font stretch|font shrink). > > The actual horizontal scaling in the output is done by changing the > transformation matrix. > > CASE 2: This case uses "real" fonts. behind your back, pdftex > invents filenames for "step"ped fonts (using the rules above > to determine "step", "stretch" and "shrink" > > If you say: \font\t=cmr10 stretch 10 shrink 5 step 5 > then pdftex creates the new font file names > > cmr10+10.tfm > cmr10+5.tfm > cmr10-5.tfm > > and loads those fonts instead of simply scaling one font. > There is no available to refer to these implied fonts > > It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says > "somefont+10 or somefont-15", both cases should be "somefile". Ok > Now something will happen, and this is where I got lost, even > in the source ... Thanh or Hans, please help! > > ENDCASES I added a paragraph in the latest version. Roughly spoken, the trick is as follows. Consider a text typeset in triple column mode. When \TEX\ cannot break a line in the appropriate way, the unbreakable parts of the word will stick into the margin. When \PDFTEX\ notes this, it will try to scale the glyphs in that line using fixed steps, until the line fits. When lines are too spacy, the opposite happens: \PDFTEX\ starts scaling the glyphs until the white space gaps is acceptable. (I'll change the typos and add a separate section to fonts -). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 10:23:51 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA21422 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:23:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA17157 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:12:01 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA17154 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:11:59 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.23]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA607F; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:11:48 +0100 Message-ID: <36B09ADD.ECF00899@wxs.nl> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:14:05 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Timothy Murphy CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <36AF716D.3503E8DD@apl.washington.edu> <14000.22059.525686.653807@localhost> <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk> <19990128162355.A13705@maths.tcd.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Timothy Murphy wrote: > I may have misunderstood, > but would it be possible to have the original LaTeX file as well, > assuming that the output was produced with pdftex ? It's converted to context makeup now. Makes my life more easy. The output is indeed produced with pdftex (the latest version). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 12:15:55 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA24564 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:15:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id OAA18101 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:05:36 -0500 Received: from donald.cybercomm.nl (donald.cybercomm.nl [194.235.113.5]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA18098 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:05:34 -0500 Received: from PC709 (poort40-ip-x2.enertel.cybercomm.nl [194.235.118.40]) by donald.cybercomm.nl (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA07047; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:21:24 -0100 (MET) From: Taco Hoekwater Message-ID: <14000.46376.580000.98052@PC709> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:06:16 +0100 (W. Europe Standard Time) To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <36B0966A.F2F77FB4@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under Emacs 20.3.1 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "HH" == Hans Hagen writes: HH> Roughly spoken, the trick is as follows. Consider a text typeset HH> in triple column mode. When \TEX\ cannot break a line in the HH> appropriate way, the unbreakable parts of the word will stick HH> into the margin. When \PDFTEX\ notes this, it will try to scale HH> the glyphs in that line using fixed steps, until the line HH> fits. When lines are too spacy, the opposite happens: \PDFTEX\ HH> starts scaling the glyphs until the white space gaps is HH> acceptable. The rough idea is clear to me. What I *don't* get is where and when the extra tfm files come in. Why are these files a better idea than the combination of stretch&shrink&\efcode? Does pdftex also try to load a pfb called somefile+10.pfb? And when and how do you use MM fonts with this trick? Suppose I have cmr10MM, with a width axis that does not mess up the stroke thickness. How can I use that thing? (It should not be that hard for me to create such an MM font, so that's why I want to know). Greetings, Taco -- Taco Hoekwater taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl Kluwer Academic Publishers -- Pre Press -- Achterom 119, 3311 KB Dordrecht, The Netherlands tel. 31-78-6392550 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 17:50:09 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA03379 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:50:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id TAA18638 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:38:47 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA18635 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:38:44 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA14540 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:38:42 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA27956 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:38:43 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901290038.BAA27956@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: page breaking? To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:38:43 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, [sorry about the delay, I've been rather busy last days] back to page breaking, I can see two main problems with TeX page breaking: a) the alg. works finds only local optimum (`best-fit' alg.) for the current page, which is not very useful to avoid bad break (club, widow). b) there is no iteraction between line breaking and page breaking I don't know much about improvments of page breaking by output routine [Chris, Hans, can you please give me some references, it would be much appreciated]. I don't see other possibilities than keeping output materials in boxes for later manipulation as insert or remove glues/skips to reduce the badness, and split them by \vsplit. I don't think it can help a lot [feel free to correct me if I am saying something silly]. The reason why a) is not implemented was the memory limitation. Two-pass processing can help to work around, but perhaps is harder to implement. Or we can divide the document into many parts, where page breaking in one part is absolutely independent on page breaking in others. Such a part can be ie a chapter. Then it might be possible to find global optimum of page breaking for individual parts, as the memory requiment is much smaller. The later problem can be solved by defining some new data structure for paragraphs. We don't break paragraphs into lines, but mark all solutions for looseness=0, +1, -1, +2, -2... Thus a paragraph can be `stretched' or `shrinked' with step = \baselineskip. The paragraph will be broken by the solution that page breaking asks for. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 19:51:26 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA05859 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 19:51:25 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA18908 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:42:30 -0500 Received: from ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (cottrell@ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu [152.17.150.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA18905 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:42:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (cottrell@localhost) by ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu (8.9.2/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA07250 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:41:32 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:41:32 -0500 (EST) From: Allin Cottrell To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <19990126184200.A26728@maths.tcd.ie> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Timothy Murphy wrote: > > I suspect that most people on this list are not really able to "keep > > their end up" in a discussion about page breaking algorithms. I know > > that I cant! > > I certainly cant. Nor me. But I don't mind forming part of the audience for such a discussion, because although TeX seems to be much better that any readily available alternative in this regard I have seen some rather ugly pages breaks occur from time to time in my 5 years or so of mostly happy TeXing. Allin Cottrell. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Thu Jan 28 21:01:11 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA07109 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:01:10 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA19139 for pdftex-list; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:55:23 -0500 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA19136 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:55:21 -0500 Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 29 Jan 99 03:55:20 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <19990129035520.A13537@maths.tcd.ie> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:55:20 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <19990126184200.A26728@maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: ; from Allin Cottrell on Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 09:41:32PM -0500 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, Jan 28, 1999 at 09:41:32PM -0500, Allin Cottrell wrote: > > Nor me. But I don't mind forming part of the audience for such > a discussion, because although TeX seems to be much better that > any readily available alternative in this regard I have seen > some rather ugly pages breaks occur from time to time in my > 5 years or so of mostly happy TeXing. Would it not be possible to write something to the .aux file (I'm thinking of LaTeX of course) about bad page breaks, which could be taken into account on a subsequent LaTeX-ing? -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 01:31:56 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id BAA12473 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 01:31:54 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id DAA19499 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:19:23 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA19496 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:19:16 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26409 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:19:14 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA09472 for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:19:12 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901290819.JAA09472@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <14000.19895.873480.187787@fell.open.ac.uk> from Chris Rowley at "Jan 28, 99 11:55:27 am" To: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:19:12 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > > There are quite some typos still and some of the grammar does not > > sound completely right to me (allthough my english is not good enough > > to fix the latter). Maybe one of the native speakers could have a look > > at that. > > I may be able to help with that (but I shall probably start asking > awkward qestions about what it is supposed to mean:-). But not during > the next two weeks. great. I've passed the manual to Sebastian and Hans because of my English. I am happy to provide all needed information, however it would be much more effecient to leave it to someone who is more familiar with writting paper. > > I could not follow the section on hz font optimization at all. There > > are some very important typos there I think, and the explanation > > itself is also quite unclear to me. > > Good to hear I am not alone: all those percentages confused me to > start with. > > But it was also good to read that some progress has been made towards > doing what HZ intended (with suitable fonts, of course). > > There is a lot of interesting stuff to implement there in the TeX > internals; much more fun than page-breaking:-). it is possible. Page breaking is just my priority in pdftex development. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 02:25:14 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA13485 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:25:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA19754 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:16:41 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA19751 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:16:39 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.49]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA490F; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:16:28 +0100 Message-ID: <36B179E5.1C7E603A@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:05:41 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Wroth, Mark" CC: pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <38CA0FDBBDADD211BFAA00805F152667241939@azu-mail2.aes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Wroth, Mark wrote: > I read the manual rather quickly, and so will remain silent on most of > the issues, but I did want to comment on the discussion excerpted below. > ... Thanks for the constructive comments. We'll add them to our own wish list and try to come up with something that suits all purposes/users/readers. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 02:25:18 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA13490 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:25:16 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA19762 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:17:00 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA19757 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:16:58 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.49]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2792; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:16:27 +0100 Message-ID: <36B178E2.75C94A9D@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:01:22 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Han The Thanh CC: pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <199901290038.BAA27956@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han The Thanh wrote: > I don't know much about improvments of page breaking by output routine [Chris, > Hans, can you please give me some references, it would be much appreciated]. I > don't see other possibilities than keeping output materials in boxes for later > manipulation as insert or remove glues/skips to reduce the badness, and split > them by \vsplit. I don't think it can help a lot [feel free to correct me if I > am saying something silly]. > > The reason why a) is not implemented was the memory limitation. Two-pass > processing can help to work around, but perhaps is harder to implement. > Or we can divide the document into many parts, where page breaking in one part > is absolutely independent on page breaking in others. Such a part can be ie a > chapter. Then it might be possible to find global optimum of page breaking for > individual parts, as the memory requiment is much smaller. > > The later problem can be solved by defining some new data structure for > paragraphs. We don't break paragraphs into lines, but mark all solutions > for looseness=0, +1, -1, +2, -2... Thus a paragraph can be `stretched' or > `shrinked' with step = \baselineskip. The paragraph will be broken by the > solution that page breaking asks for. The main complication in optimizing pages is that removing a line on the fifth page, thereby improving the layout, can result in a far worse 15th page. So, spreads is only part of the story. (In general pages does not come out that bad, given complications as floats, formulas, etc). In general I think that there are too many alternatives to consider and to many different ways to optimize a break. There are also a lot of complicating situations. (1) It is possible to write macros that handle side floats. I will not mention the details, but one complication lays at pagebreaks. It would make sense to have a sort of dynamic parshape, one that depends on break. Think of something: 'use this par shape when it fits on the page' else 'use it at the top if the next page' and 'apply something to the start of this shape' (2) Spreads and other optimizations can best be handled by an output routine, using information about the rest of the page. For instance, should the two pages be a bit smaller because the next one is too long, etc. So handling two pages of one specific page break independant of others does not solve the problem. I really see a way out in working with what I call strategies, combined with page dependant settings and saving info about the break. Consider: \pagestrategy 1 {\emergencystretch... \looseness .... \...penalty ... } \pagestrategy 2 {\emergencystretch... \looseness ... \pdfadjustspacing=2 } Where \pdfadjustlines=-1 can mean: fool around with fonts until we have one line less. When breaking the page, tex could follow the strategy that fits best. It should be possible to adjust the strategies,based on info from a previous pass. When enough info is available at shipout time, like: The output routine could adapt strategies after a page is shipped out. Real optimization comes down to analyzing many page qualities. I can even think page paragraph strategies! Not 2/3 passes, but many, depending on the number of strategies defined. (3) Memory is not so much a problem. Because pdftex lacks a postprocessing stage, about a year ago I added page imposition to context (two up and alike), and it's not so much a problem to keep tens of pages into memory. More on that in a previous NTG MAPS. So, I'm not sure if memory was the real problems, finding the best strategy is! (4) Grids. I've implemented a rudimentary scheme of grid snapping, which works ok for common cases, like the avarage multi column stuf. It even handles floats in columns ok. There the main complication is interference, i.e. whatsits that influence the breaking. Many cases could be solved by making whatsists invisible for breaking mechanisms. (5) expect much interference. The most complicated docs are those with many many floats, definitions, formulas, etc. We may wonder if 100% automatic handling is possible there. (Although, I tend never to manually influence the page breaking and spacing). I'll give it more thought, so don't take me too serious yet, Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 02:31:13 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id CAA13736 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:31:12 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA19764 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:17:02 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA19760 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:16:59 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.49]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA4A28; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:16:20 +0100 Message-ID: <36B1699F.363F7B4F@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:56:15 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater CC: pdftex Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <14000.46376.580000.98052@PC709> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > The rough idea is clear to me. What I *don't* get is where and when > the extra tfm files come in. Why are these files a better idea than > the combination of stretch&shrink&\efcode? Does pdftex also try > to load a pfb called somefile+10.pfb? > > And when and how do you use MM fonts with this trick? Suppose I have > cmr10MM, with a width axis that does not mess up the stroke > thickness. How can I use that thing? (It should not be that hard for > me to create such an MM font, so that's why I want to know). Ah. Thats stillpart of the experiment I believe. Moving the tfm generation into pdftex itself was discussed, but for the moment rejected. It does include more pfb files, due to the fact that in pdf fonts are sort of fixed, but pdftex does that automatically. So indeed internally there is a somefile-10.pfb. MM fonts are supported, but alas the experiments were limited to what was available. It doe work (there are some files in the pdftex distributions for those who want to experiment). The font extensions are available for everyone, but still under development. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 03:48:00 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA15091 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:47:59 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA20348 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:31:23 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA20345 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:31:21 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:31:15 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id KAA00981; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:31:12 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:31:11 +0000 (GMT) To: Timothy Murphy Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <19990129035520.A13537@maths.tcd.ie> References: <19990126184200.A26728@maths.tcd.ie> <19990129035520.A13537@maths.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14001.35760.799835.265926@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Timothy Murphy wrote -- > > Would it not be possible to write something to the .aux file > (I'm thinking of LaTeX of course) > about bad page breaks, Nice high-level idea but: -- you need to decide what makes a page-break (or, rather, a sequence thereof, bad; -- you then need to be able to detect how good your sequence is. > which could be taken into account on a subsequent LaTeX-ing? -- then you need to know how to use the information to make the sequence better next time. This is not intended to say that this is impossible (despite Hans' summary of many of the possibilities) but just to indicate that the "whole real world problem" probably needs some fundamentally new ideas for a solution. For example, to model float psoitioning and its effect on the goodness of page-breaks one cannot simply use the glue+penalties model. Also, there are very many ways in which a page can become completely unacceptable. TeX at prersent does not handle such cases at all: putting black boxes at the end of a line is not, IMHO, a handler for this in the line-breaking case! chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 04:19:19 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id EAA15640 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:19:17 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id FAA20432 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:59:24 -0500 Received: from nag.co.uk (openmath.nag.co.uk [192.156.217.16]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA20428 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:58:33 -0500 Received: (from davidc@localhost) by nag.co.uk (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id KAA17872; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:57:39 GMT Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:57:39 GMT Message-Id: <199901291057.KAA17872@nag.co.uk> From: David Carlisle To: pdftex@tug.org In-reply-to: <19990129035520.A13537@maths.tcd.ie> (message from Timothy Murphy on Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:55:20 +0000) Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <19990126184200.A26728@maths.tcd.ie> <19990129035520.A13537@maths.tcd.ie> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Would it not be possible to write something to the .aux file > (I'm thinking of LaTeX of course) > about bad page breaks, > which could be taken into account on a subsequent LaTeX-ing? Yes, people have tried this, it is not always clear exactly _what_ you should be writing though. Context has by default such a multipass output routine I think. However an internal version could in principle have more information. If you compare with line breaking. If you had a system that had a `break as soon as possible' line break strategy, it would have to write out a _lot_ of data, and do a lot of passes, before you could emulate the `optimise over entire paragraph' strategy that TeX actually uses. Similarly if you write information about where you put floats you can make some improvements on the first pass, but this is not the same as a full `optimise page breaking over whole chapter' algorithm. Not that it is clear whether that means anything, whether there are any sensible metrics on page breaking that one could optimise. David From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 05:22:32 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA16743 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:22:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id HAA20730 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:03:56 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA20726 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:03:54 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:03:40 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id MAA01093; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:03:37 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:03:37 +0000 (GMT) To: Hans Hagen Cc: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <36B178E2.75C94A9D@wxs.nl> References: <199901290038.BAA27956@anxur.fi.muni.cz> <36B178E2.75C94A9D@wxs.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14001.39986.121021.953468@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hans described many things that need to be considered in the real world of page-breaking. The only thing I have to add right now is to put a bit more emphasis on the issue of `float evaluation'. One aspect of this (not the only one) is how to evaluate the "badness" of a float's position. There are, in the very real world of publishers' rule books and designers' practice, many different constraints and different desiderata in use: some are more easily quantified than others. Knuth-Plass's papers consider only single column floats (ie no spanning floats as in LaTeX's *-forms, nor side-floats nor marginal floats) but even in this simple case they show that the problem is, in an algorithmic sense, very complex. However, I think that there metrics for evaluating a float's position is not at all related to the kind of rules used by designers. Ironically, measures that are much easier to state and explain (eg same-page good, ie 0 badness); later page bad, ie 1000 badness) can lead to very complex algorithms if page-breaking is treated by the same class of algorithms as TeX's line-breaking. When you have solved that problem, think about the possibility of choice in the positioning and sizing of floats and, as Hans mentioned, the effects this has on the areas available for text; then you will begin to get a glimpse of the fascination of the subject. Thus probably very different algorithms are needed and, in particular, very different exception-handlers. As you may be able to see by now, this is a vast subject that needs input from, at least, "the users" (in this case publishers and book designers and (maybe:-) TeX users), the algorithms people and (last but not(?) least) software designers. Of course, if one were only to adopt an OO data-model, or use pure functional programming, or whatever the latest CS fashions dictate, then all this exciting intellectual effort would be unnecessary! (oops, it must be "blame informatics week"). chris From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 06:27:22 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA17855 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:27:21 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA20941 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:04:13 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA20938 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:04:11 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.202]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1A92; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:04:06 +0100 Message-ID: <36B1B24D.503AEF31@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:06:21 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pdftex Subject: hz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi Taco and others, Pdftex indeed needs tfm+/-percentage and pfb+/-perentage files (but I forgot how to generate the latter ones). Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 06:28:16 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA17871 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:28:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA20989 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:14:33 -0500 Received: from cuimail.unige.ch (cuimail.unige.ch [129.194.69.50]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA20986 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:14:31 -0500 Received: from cui.unige.ch (cuisg21.unige.ch [129.194.137.27]) by cuimail.unige.ch (PMDF V5.2-31 #32426) with ESMTP id <0F6B00MOAOS4H3@cuimail.unige.ch> for pdftex@tug.org; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:14:28 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:14:18 +0100 From: HADAP Sunil Subject: Type1 font maps for AMS! To: pdftex@tug.org Message-id: <36B1B42A.B3B4F212@cui.unige.ch> Organization: MIRALab, University of Geneva MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP22) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi! I downlocaded Type1 fonts for AMS by Bluesky. How can I create .map file. If someone has done it already, I would be glad to have it. Thanks in advance Regards Sunil From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 07:49:52 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id HAA19506 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:49:50 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA21485 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:21:37 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA21482 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:21:31 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24516; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:21:25 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA01057; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:21:24 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901291421.PAA01057@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <36B0966A.F2F77FB4@wxs.nl> from Hans Hagen at "Jan 28, 99 05:55:06 pm" To: pragma@wxs.nl (Hans Hagen) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:21:24 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > Taco Hoekwater wrote: > > > The new syntax for \font is: > > > > \font > > > > -> at | scaled | > > -> | > > -> stretch | shrink | > > step > > -> 0 .. 1000 > > > > \efcode is type , so it behaves like e.g. \sfcode: > > > > \efcode<8-bit number> > > > > Additionally, > > > > "stretch" and "shrink" default to "0". > > > > if "stretch" is specified, and so is "step", then "step" > > has to be smaller than "stretch" > > > > if "shrink" is specified, and so is "step", then "step" > > has to be smaller than "shrink" > > > > if either "stretch" or "shrink" is larger than "0", then if > > "step" was not specified or specified as "0", then it > > defaults to "5" > > (this takes place after defaulting "stretch" and "shrink") > > > > It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says > > "1% steps are used", that should be "0.5% steps are used". > > Ok. for experimental purpose we can leave bound of stretch/shrink/step to 1000. Later we can change it to ie 30--40. > > if neither "stretch" nor "shrink" are larger than "0", then > > "step" defaults to "0" as well. > > > > \efcodes default to "1000" > > > > -------------------------------------- > > All units for "stretch", "shrink", "step" and \efcodes are in > > permilles. > > > > It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says > > "in this example a 5% one", that should be "a 0.5% one". stretch/shrink/step are given in thousandths of expansions: `stretch 50' means that the font can be stretched maximally by 5% of the original width. `step' says the amount of one step of expansion: `step 10' means that the font will be expanded by 1%, -1%, 2%, -2% etc of the original width. \efcode is a factor saying how much the character should be stretched/shrinked. The default is 1000, however we can change this value to control how much individual characters are stretched/shrinked. The expand radio for a character is calculated ie for stretching: (required_ratio/1000)*(efcode/1000)*STRETCH where STRETCH stands for the stretch amount given for the font by saying `stretch ' required_ratio is calculated as total_stretche_amount/exceed_amount_of_line. total_stretch_amount is the sum of char_stretch_amount of all characters in the line. For characters with normal font this value is 0. For characters of `expandable font' this value is calculated by (width_of_char_in_max_stretch_font-width_of_char_in_original_font)*ef_code/1000 max_stretch_font is the font stretched by STRECH as mentioned above. An example: \font\f=putr8a stretch 50 shrink 50 step 10 for character `A' with \efcode`A = 1000 we have: max_stretch_font = putr8a+50 width_of_A_in_putr8a = 6.34999pt width_of_A_in_putr8a+50 = 6.67pt char_stretch_amount = (width_of_A_in_putr8a-width_of_A_in_putr8a+50)*efcode/1000 = 0.32pt [if \efcode`A = 500 the result would be 0.16pt] exceed_amount_of_line is the different between the nature box width and the line width (\hsize). For example if \hsize = 300pt and the box width is 290pt), then the exceed_amount_of_line is 10pt. after calculating required_ratio, abs(required_ratio) is clipped to 1000: -1000 <= required_ratio <= 1000 The abs of expand ratio can be greater than STRETCH if \efcode is greater than 1000. However STRECH is maximum of the stretch amount, so the selected font will be bounded to STRETCH. > Ok. > > > And now, whether or not something happens depends on the setting of > > \pdfadjustspacing: > > > > IFCASE \pdfadjustspacing > > > > CASE 0: do nothing; exactly like TeX itself would. This is the default. > > > > CASE 1: This case uses normal fonts, but uses the added keywords > > "stretch" and "shrink" to \font to get the needed limits. > > "step" is ignored. > > Thanh? no, in this case line breaking stays the same, however after breaking text into lines, pdftex will try to reduce badness of lines by expanding font > > > The total possible stretch and shrink of any char is > > it's (\efcode/1000) * (font stretch|font shrink). > > > > The actual horizontal scaling in the output is done by changing the > > transformation matrix. changing transformation matrix has been removed from pdftex already, as it caused too many problems. Font expansion is implemented in the same way for both \pdfadjustspacing=1 and \pdfadjustspacing=2. There are there posibilities how to do that: 1) using the built-in MM of AcroReader (not embed the font source, just extracting font parameters and let AcroReader simulates the font--in this case the font flag must be given in map file and must have the 6th flag set); 2) generating t1 font source `on-the-fly' from MM by mm-instance package; 3) using `ExtendFont' with correct parametrs. This feature is new and will be available from pdftex-0.13b > > > > CASE 2: This case uses "real" fonts. behind your back, pdftex > > invents filenames for "step"ped fonts (using the rules above > > to determine "step", "stretch" and "shrink" > > > > If you say: \font\t=cmr10 stretch 10 shrink 5 step 5 > > then pdftex creates the new font file names > > > > cmr10+10.tfm > > cmr10+5.tfm > > cmr10-5.tfm > > > > and loads those fonts instead of simply scaling one font. > > There is no available to refer to these implied fonts > > > > It follows that there is a typo in the documentation where it says > > "somefont+10 or somefont-15", both cases should be "somefile". > > Ok > > > Now something will happen, and this is where I got lost, even > > in the source ... Thanh or Hans, please help! > > > > ENDCASES sorry about the ugly explanation, I know it's difficult to understand what I am trying to say. The best way to understand it is to have a look at a real example. Hans and Thierry got some, I've put on one in the 0.13a directory. Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 08:33:03 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA20549 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:33:02 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21715 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:17:25 -0500 Received: from aragorn.ics.muni.cz (aragorn.ics.muni.cz [147.251.4.33]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21712 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:17:22 -0500 Received: from anxur.fi.muni.cz (11601@anxur.fi.muni.cz [147.251.48.3]) by aragorn.ics.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03158; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:17:16 +0100 (MET) Received: (from thanh@localhost) by anxur.fi.muni.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA05793; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:17:17 +0100 (MET) From: Han The Thanh Message-Id: <199901291517.QAA05793@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <14000.46376.580000.98052@PC709> from Taco Hoekwater at "Jan 28, 99 08:06:16 pm" To: taco.hoekwater@wkap.nl (Taco Hoekwater) Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:17:16 +0100 (MET) Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk > The rough idea is clear to me. What I *don't* get is where and when > the extra tfm files come in. Why are these files a better idea than > the combination of stretch&shrink&\efcode? Does pdftex also try > to load a pfb called somefile+10.pfb? pdftex tries to load ie `foo+10.tfm' if `foo' is loaded with valid strech/shrink. The extra tfm can be prepared forward, or generated `on-the-fly'. I've done some modification in tetex' mktextfm so it generates fonts with tag +/-N (viz pdftex-beta/0.13a/test.zip). In the end pdftex will download `font+/-N.pfb' if `font.pfb' is given as font file for `foo' in map file. If `foo' doesn't have to be downloaded, just some parameters are generated so Acrobat Reader will simulate the font. Example: % pmnl8a10+/-N.pfb will be downloaded pmnl8a10 And when and how do you use MM fonts with this trick? Suppose I have > cmr10MM, with a width axis that does not mess up the stroke > thickness. How can I use that thing? (It should not be that hard for > me to create such an MM font, so that's why I want to know). the first case uses MM font: pmnl8a10+/-N.pfb are be created from MM fonts when the correspoding TFM are created. In fact pdftex doesn't handle any MM font; it just uses MM instances. The script mktextfm.ext (in test.zip) shows how to generate it (for IL2 encoding only). mm-instance comes from http://www.lcdf.org/~eddietwo/type/ Thanh From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 08:55:52 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA21203 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 08:55:51 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA21884 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:42:43 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21880 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:42:41 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl (wkaxp1.wkap.nl [192.87.90.131]) by relay.surfnet.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14393; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:42:37 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J74BO33DZ400ISKZ@wkap.nl>; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:42:06 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:43:06 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: hz In-reply-to: <36B1B24D.503AEF31@wxs.nl> To: Hans Hagen Cc: pdftex Message-id: <14001.58650.364034.153448@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <36B1B24D.503AEF31@wxs.nl> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Hans" == Hans Hagen writes: Hans> Hi Taco and others, Pdftex indeed needs tfm+/-percentage and Hans> pfb+/-perentage files (but I forgot how to generate the Hans> latter ones). I just created symlinks and that seems to work. That would be a lot of copies on a Windows system. Perhaps it's time for a "maketexpfb" script? Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 09:08:28 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA21536 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:08:26 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22025 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:54:21 -0500 Received: from smtp02.wxs.nl (smtp02.wxs.nl [195.121.6.60]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22022 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:54:19 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.175]) by smtp02.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA6EFD; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:54:11 +0100 Message-ID: <36B1DA34.B9FF1921@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:56:36 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: hz References: <36B1B24D.503AEF31@wxs.nl> <14001.58650.364034.153448@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Taco Hoekwater wrote: > > >>>>> "Hans" == Hans Hagen writes: > > Hans> Hi Taco and others, Pdftex indeed needs tfm+/-percentage and > Hans> pfb+/-perentage files (but I forgot how to generate the > Hans> latter ones). > > I just created symlinks and that seems to work. That would be a lot of > copies on a Windows system. Perhaps it's time for a "maketexpfb" > script? Just copying? Or also changing the matrix. A trivial perl job. Just tell me what to do. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 09:14:33 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA21713 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:14:32 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA22036 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:54:54 -0500 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA22032 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:54:52 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.20.175]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA5807; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:54:20 +0100 Message-ID: <36B1CAEB.E6E71D0F@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:51:23 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Carlisle CC: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: page breaking? References: <19990126184200.A26728@maths.tcd.ie> <19990129035520.A13537@maths.tcd.ie> <199901291057.KAA17872@nag.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk David Carlisle wrote: > Context has by default such a multipass output routine I think. To some extend indeed. Float reordering, marginal stuff, alignment, itemizations, and some more. Of course the multi column gird stuff is multipass, but only internal, not using two pass external data. > If you had a system that had a `break as soon as possible' line break > strategy, it would have to write out a _lot_ of data, and do a lot of > passes, before you could emulate the `optimise over entire paragraph' > strategy that TeX actually uses. Indeed. A sort of endless loop. > Not that it is clear whether that means anything, whether there are any > sensible metrics on page breaking that one could optimise. Right, the perfectly typeset document probably always needs some manual fine tuning. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 09:19:33 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA21851 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:19:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22164 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:04:57 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22161 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:04:55 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id PAA26599; hop 0; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:55:44 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:04:29 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14001.53083.959353.640407@srahtz> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:10:19 +0000 (GMT) To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk do i read this right? people are complaining because the pdfTeX manual _is in PDF_? has the world turned on its head? sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 09:42:06 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA22500 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:42:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22468 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:28:51 -0500 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22464 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:28:49 -0500 Received: from nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu (ats@nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu [128.252.113.13]) by wugate.wustl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA28877; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:28:43 -0600 (CST) Received: (from ats@localhost) by nb22-pool-13.wustl.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09354; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:28:41 -0600 To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> <14001.53083.959353.640407@srahtz> Mail-Copies-To: never From: Alan Shutko Date: 29 Jan 1999 10:28:40 -0600 In-Reply-To: Sebastian Rahtz's message of "Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:10:19 +0000 (GMT)" Message-ID: Lines: 15 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.6.42/Emacs 20.3 Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "S" == Sebastian Rahtz writes: S> do i read this right? people are complaining because the pdfTeX S> manual _is in PDF_? has the world turned on its head? Nope. People are complaining that the first page has a background of literal PDF, which makes it look as if there was some bug and Acrobat started writing PDF to the screen. Of course, it was by intention, but combined with the fact that the Unix versions need a plugin for form features and the origial Form Reset (or whatever) thus caused an error dialog makes for a confused person. 8^) -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted A computer scientist is someone who fixes things that aren't broken. From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 09:54:12 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA22809 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:54:11 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22610 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:36:54 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22607 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:36:53 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id QAA28408; hop 0; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:27:42 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:36:31 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 Q); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14001.57143.685012.203115@srahtz> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:17:59 +0000 (GMT) To: pierred@Interlinx.qc.ca Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: PdfLatex and hyperref In-Reply-To: <36b037f3.1300758@interlinx.qc.ca> References: <36b037f3.1300758@interlinx.qc.ca> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk pierred@Interlinx.qc.ca writes: > > If I use hyperref package, a page always open with that page and > the bookmarks in Acrobat. But if I remove > \usepackage[pdftex]{hyperref}, the page opens without the bookmarks > (the action that I want). Did I miss something? > \usepackage[pdftex,bookmarks=false]{hyperref} sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 09:57:06 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA23023 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 09:57:05 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA22706 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:42:39 -0500 Received: from relay.surfnet.nl (relay.surfnet.nl [192.87.36.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA22703 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:42:37 -0500 Received: from wkaxp1.wkap.nl (wkaxp1.wkap.nl [192.87.90.131]) by relay.surfnet.nl (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15865; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:42:35 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (pc709.wkap.nl) by wkap.nl (PMDF V5.1-4 #29553) with SMTP id <01J74DRFR59S00K8IT@wkap.nl>; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:42:04 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:43:04 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Taco Hoekwater Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-reply-to: <199901291517.QAA05793@anxur.fi.muni.cz> To: Han The Thanh Cc: pdftex@tug.org (pdfTeX) Message-id: <14001.62248.905261.740208@localhost> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.62 under 20.4 "Emerald" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <14000.46376.580000.98052@PC709> <199901291517.QAA05793@anxur.fi.muni.cz> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Han> the first case uses MM font: pmnl8a10+/-N.pfb are be created Han> from MM fonts when the correspoding TFM are created. In fact Han> pdftex doesn't handle any MM font; it just uses MM Han> instances. The script mktextfm.ext (in test.zip) shows how to Han> generate it (for IL2 encoding only). mm-instance comes from Han> http://www.lcdf.org/~eddietwo/type/ thanks for these info's. I think I have a reasonable clue of what goes on now. I'm trying to create an MM for cmr10 but have problems with (lots of) bugs in Fontlab export. If and when I can get this to work I'll let you know. Greetings, Taco From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 10:22:42 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA23801 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:22:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA23126 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:11:01 -0500 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA23123 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:11:00 -0500 Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Local (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:10:38 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id RAA01474; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:10:34 GMT From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:10:34 +0000 (GMT) To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <14001.53083.959353.640407@srahtz> References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> <14001.53083.959353.640407@srahtz> X-Mailer: VM 6.44 under Emacs 19.34.1 Message-ID: <14001.60106.268595.79190@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Sebastian wrote -- > do i read this right? people are complaining because the pdfTeX manual > _is in PDF_? has the world turned on its head? Or perhaps that its source is not freely available? chris (of the FDF) From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 10:31:14 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA24036 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:31:13 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA23203 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:18:03 -0500 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23199 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:18:01 -0500 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]; by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP; for ""; sender "s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk"; id RAA00387; hop 0; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:08:50 GMT Received: from srahtz (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:17:53 +0000 X-Mailer: emacs 20.3.2 (via feedmail 9-beta-3 I); VM 6.61 under Emacs 20.3.2 From: Sebastian Rahtz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14001.60407.419635.958642@srahtz> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 17:12:23 +0000 (GMT) To: C.A.Rowley@open.ac.uk Cc: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex manual In-Reply-To: <14001.60106.268595.79190@fell.open.ac.uk> References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> <14001.53083.959353.640407@srahtz> <14001.60106.268595.79190@fell.open.ac.uk> Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley writes: > > > do i read this right? people are complaining because the pdfTeX manual ... > Or perhaps that its source is not freely available? > perhaps it should be like the source of the TeX Book, illegal to run it, but legal to read it... how many of you apart from Hans and Taco have a reading knowledge of Context source files? how many of you have Context installed? of course if it was in XML, you could just browse it with Internet Explorr.... Sebastian From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 10:51:32 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA24633 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 10:51:30 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA23562 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:41:20 -0500 Received: from smtp03.wxs.nl (smtp03.wxs.nl [195.121.6.37]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23559 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:41:19 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.21.39]) by smtp03.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2705; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:41:17 +0100 Message-ID: <36B1F344.A3EBB0AC@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:43:32 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alan Shutko CC: Sebastian Rahtz , pdftex@tug.org Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> <14001.53083.959353.640407@srahtz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Alan Shutko wrote: > form features and the origial Form Reset (or whatever) thus caused an > error dialog makes for a confused person. 8^) Please update. Taco tested it and it works ok on unix with 3.02 updates. It makes tracing problems very hard if people use old versions. Thanks, Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 20:56:51 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA08847 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 20:56:49 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA24665 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:47:40 -0500 Received: from phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca (phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca [207.253.145.6]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA24662 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:47:36 -0500 From: pierred@Interlinx.qc.ca Received: from 012.utc-3.Sherbrooke.InterLinx.qc.ca (012.utc-3.Sherbrooke.InterLinx.qc.ca [207.253.182.32]) by phyleus.interlinx.qc.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA02491 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:47:30 -0500 To: pdftex@tug.org Subject: Pdftex and \pagecolor Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 22:47:34 -0500 Message-ID: <36b480ce.18773305@interlinx.qc.ca> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Hi I cannot use the option \pagecolor from the package color. Is that feature available for the pdftex driver? Thanks __________________ Pierre Desjardins Sherbrooke, Québec __________________ From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sat Jan 30 06:23:58 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id GAA18853 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 06:23:57 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA25180 for pdftex-list; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:11:10 -0500 Received: from halifax.chebucto.ns.ca (halifax.chebucto.ns.Ca [192.75.95.75]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA25177 for ; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 08:11:09 -0500 Received: from aa056@localhost by halifax.chebucto.ns.ca id <33717-28968>; Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:10:56 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 09:10:56 -0400 (AST) From: George White To: Hans Hagen cc: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? In-Reply-To: <36B178E2.75C94A9D@wxs.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Hans Hagen wrote: > > The main complication in optimizing pages is that removing a line on the > fifth page, thereby improving the layout, can result in a far worse 15th > page. So, spreads is only part of the story. (In general pages does not > come out that bad, given complications as floats, formulas, etc). > > In general I think that there are too many alternatives to consider and > to many different ways to optimize a break. There are also a lot of > complicating situations. > > [...] > > It should be possible to adjust the strategies,based on info from a > previous pass. > > When enough info is available at shipout time, like: > > > > > > The output routine could adapt strategies after a page is shipped out. > Real optimization comes down to analyzing many page qualities. > > I can even think page paragraph strategies! Not 2/3 passes, but many, > depending on the number of strategies defined. Perhaps it is time to discard the single pass model and implement TeX in a way that avoids the need for multiple runs for almost any non-trivial document (and may never converge!). These multiple runs are a massive waste of resources since much of the work is duplicated in each run. Using multiple passes also raises the possiblity for other optimizations -- for example, I have the impression that Adobe Distilller uses multiple passes to help structure documents in a way that eases the job of the reader (based on the experiences when PDF was new with documents that contain large images -- PDF files I generated would fail on the 16-bit Win 3 viewer, but versions created with distiller worked and appeared to differ only in the ordering of the objects). -- George White Halifax, Nova Scotia From owner-pdftex@tug.org Fri Jan 29 11:03:43 1999 Flags: 000000000001 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA25014 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id MAA23737 for pdftex-list; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:53:49 -0500 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23734 for ; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 12:53:47 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.21.39]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA68EA; Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:53:24 +0100 Message-ID: <36B1F61C.54BB7CA1@wxs.nl> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:55:40 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Rowley Subject: Re: pdftex manual References: <36AF3014.DDE15184@wxs.nl> <13999.25666.766488.935531@fell.open.ac.uk> <14001.53083.959353.640407@srahtz> <14001.60106.268595.79190@fell.open.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk Chris Rowley wrote: > Or perhaps that its source is not freely available? Won't be of use to a latex guru like you. No problmens with making it public. Makes a good context demo file. Next week. > chris (of the FDF) Beware, adobe claimed the FDF format! ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pdftex@tug.org Sun Jan 31 15:37:10 1999 Flags: 000000000000 Received: from tug.org (IDENT:daemon@tug.org [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA19768 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 15:37:08 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA27276 for pdftex-list; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:26:33 -0500 Received: from smtp05.wxs.nl (smtp05.wxs.nl [195.121.6.57]) by tug.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA27273 for ; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:26:31 -0500 Received: from wxs.nl ([195.121.21.84]) by smtp05.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA59C1; Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:26:21 +0100 Message-ID: <36B42B42.8DFD3C86@wxs.nl> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:06:58 +0100 From: Hans Hagen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: George White CC: Han The Thanh , pdfTeX Subject: Re: page breaking? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk George White wrote: > Perhaps it is time to discard the single pass model and implement TeX in a > way that avoids the need for multiple runs for almost any non-trivial > document (and may never converge!). These multiple runs are a > massive waste of resources since much of the work is duplicated in each > run. > > Using multiple passes also raises the possiblity for other optimizations > -- for example, I have the impression that Adobe Distilller uses multiple > passes to help structure documents in a way that eases the job of the > reader (based on the experiences when PDF was new with documents that > contain large images -- PDF files I generated would fail on the 16-bit Win > 3 viewer, but versions created with distiller worked and appeared to > differ only in the ordering of the objects). The latter seems like a viewer bug to me. Distiller 3 does one pass only. Anyway, optimization in the WWW sense is always multipass. What distiller does, and pdftex doesn't, is downsampling, and that's what you observe as a multiple pass. Including 10 similar bitmaps in a PS file results in 10 instances! Exchange removes these. In this respect pdftex does a better job (because tex packages have knowledge on the document). Concerning multiple passes meant for better typography, we will always need more passes. One added reference can result in everything shifted and to be typeset afresh. On the avarage complicated document, one pass often is enough, two pass an avarage when updating the document, and three passes normal in a first run. It does make sense to make sure that no more passes are done than needed (which is one of the reasons why I wrote the texexec perl script). Of course, an additional pass is needed when tex does page imposition (the 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 pages per sheet rotated, mirrored, shifted stuff). And here one has to make sure to disable generating two pass info (not that hard either), otherwise in a next run, all the auxiliary info is mixed in a funny way. When using objects in pdftex, a faulty file can result when invalid forward object references are used (imaging adding a fill in field to a document; fill in fields use many object references and datastructures to be build by the macro package, especially when one clones and copies fields). This often results in additional passes, for instance because forward references are used, some datastructures are to be filled etc. (Those who know context, also know that there is only one auxiliary file where all the references, twopass data, tables, indexes etc do into; for practical reasons, mainly memory, incomplicated documents many passes are made over this file, depending on the info needed. Think of each chapter an own table of contents and a few indexes, cross linked index entries etc.) A complication in hard coding multiple passes in pdftex is that every macro package has his own needs, which can change in time. Also, the one pass approach has given tex a big advantage over other programs: it can easilly handle documents with thousands of pages, tens of thousands of cross references, hundreds of floating bodies, etc etc. We don't want to loose that. One optimization (and I already pointed that out long ago) could be that pdftex waits with inclusion of images until the last page it shipped out. Something like: \pdfimagemode=0 current behavior \pdfimagemode=1 flush all images at the end \pdfimagemode=2 flush all images at the end only when no error occurred That last one would save a lot of time on runs with many bitmap inserts (multi meg files). (Context can be run in fast mode, which means don't inclusion but only reserve the space needed. This kind of support is easy to implement in macros, so there is no reason for specific support there.) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | mail: pragma@wxs.nl ConTeXt and PPCHTeX site: www.ntg.nl/context -----------------------------------------------------------------