From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jan 18 10:24:58 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from Cs.Nott.AC.UK (marian.cs.nott.ac.uk [128.243.20.6]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA04240 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:24:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from octopus.cs.nott.ac.uk by marian.Cs.Nott.AC.UK id aa21093; 18 Jan 2002 17:24 GMT Sender: pni@Cs.Nott.AC.UK Message-ID: <3C485A55.3C8982C1@cs.nott.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:24:37 +0000 From: Pablo Nogueira X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.2-2 i686) X-Accept-Language: en, es MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Font documentation, packages, and other questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear People I am a LaTeX user that would like to use other fonts than those available thru the teTeX package for Unix/Linux. I've been looking at CTANs and all sources I could find on the web and most of the time I end up reading lots of documents that lead me nowhere. The latex companion is not helpful, nor some other latex books that go into too technical detail. I want to be able to use baskerville or sabon. The first questions that come up are 1. Are they freely available for LaTeX? 2 How should I donwload them (psfonts or other ways)? 3. What is on CTAN are the fonts or just the metrics converted from AFM? 4. Is there a package for each font that one only needs to install and go? 5. Is there any sort of automatic installer for fonts? (fontinst?) in summary, how do I do that or find a clear explanation of how to do it. Cheers Pablo From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jan 18 12:48:49 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07634 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:48:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.137.13] (mariehemsv093.sn.umu.se [130.239.137.13]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA13008; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:48:39 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3C485A55.3C8982C1@cs.nott.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:48:38 +0100 To: Pablo Nogueira From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: Font documentation, packages, and other questions Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id MAA07635 At 18.24 +0100 2002-01-18, Pablo Nogueira wrote: > 3. What is on CTAN are the fonts or just the metrics converted from >AFM? Most fonts are commercial software, hence they cannot be available on CTAN. The files in fonts/psfonts/ are (i) metrics that can be understood by TeX, (ii) "virtual fonts" (VFs), which are fonts that fetch all their glyphs >From other fonts, and (iii) various configuration files needed to find and make use of the fonts. In principle you can typeset a text in a certain font using only the files available on CTAN, but in general you cannot view or print the result, as you don't have the actual font. > 4. Is there a package for each font that one only needs to install >and go? That is pretty much the case, but you usually need to get the actual fonts >From somewhere else than CTAN. > 5. Is there any sort of automatic installer for fonts? (fontinst?) Fontinst is mainly a program for converting metrics. It can also construct characters that are missing in the base fonts if all necessary pieces are available, reorganise characters in fonts, in some cases enhance the metrics (many fonts only have the kerns needed when typesetting English), and generate some configuration files. It cannot put the font-related files where they need to be, however. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jan 18 17:23:20 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA13234 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:23:19 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200201190023.RAA13234@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 17657 invoked by uid 101); 19 Jan 2002 00:23:17 -0000 Received: from pd902bae3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (217.2.186.227) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 00:23:17 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "Pablo Nogueira" , "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:23:12 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 In-Reply-To: <3C485A55.3C8982C1@cs.nott.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Font documentation, packages, and other questions On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:24:37 +0000, Pablo Nogueira wrote: >I am a LaTeX user that would like to use other fonts than those >available thru the teTeX package for Unix/Linux. Take a look at -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jan 18 20:04:54 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA15062 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:04:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 19 Jan 2002 03:04:52 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 03:04:52 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Font documentation, packages, and other questions Message-ID: <20020119030451.GA17176@boole.maths.tcd.ie> References: <3C485A55.3C8982C1@cs.nott.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C485A55.3C8982C1@cs.nott.ac.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 05:24:37PM +0000, Pablo Nogueira wrote: > I want to be able to use baskerville or sabon. The first questions that > come up are > 1. Are they freely available for LaTeX? If I had this query, I would go to one of the CTANs, eg ftp ftp.tex.ac.uk ftp> quote site index bask ftp> quote site index sabon >From this, it appears that while these fonts themselves are not available (presumably being commercial), everything is available to use them in LaTeX once they are purchased. All you need, it seems, are the .pfb files. Once you have them, the .tfm, .vf and .fd files are there. I think there are clear instructions on what you need to do. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: 086-233 6090 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jan 18 20:21:57 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15234 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:21:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mv (66-108-78-158.nyc.rr.com [66.108.78.158]) by nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g0J3LAup020437; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:21:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020119032148.00e0a354@pop.panix.com> X-Sender: mv@pop.panix.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:21:48 -0500 To: Pablo Nogueira From: "MicroPress Inc." Subject: Re: Font documentation, packages, and other questions Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu For a full (with matching math fonts) Baskerville-compatible solution, look for BAmath at http://www.micropress-inc.com/fonts [No, it is not in public domain; but it is a full solution and it does include all the TeX setup files.] There is no such fontset for Sabon. At 05:24 PM 1/18/02 +0000, you wrote: >Dear People > >I am a LaTeX user that would like to use other fonts than those >available thru the teTeX package for Unix/Linux. > >I've been looking at CTANs and all sources I could find on the web and >most of the time I end up reading lots of documents that lead me >nowhere. The latex companion is not helpful, nor some other latex books >that go into too technical detail. > >I want to be able to use baskerville or sabon. The first questions that >come up are > 1. Are they freely available for LaTeX? > 2 How should I donwload them (psfonts or other ways)? > 3. What is on CTAN are the fonts or just the metrics converted from >AFM? > 4. Is there a package for each font that one only needs to install >and go? > 5. Is there any sort of automatic installer for fonts? (fontinst?) > >in summary, how do I do that or find a clear explanation of how to do >it. >Cheers >Pablo > > > > --------------------------------------------- Michael Vulis MicroPress mailto://support@micropress-inc.com http://www.micropress-inc.com From tex-fonts-errors Sat Jan 19 14:14:28 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25752 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 14:14:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from lupo.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (lupo.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De [141.44.27.71]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0JKC5e26417 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 21:12:05 +0100 Received: (from fix@localhost) by lupo.cs.uni-magdeburg.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0JLEMx04573 for tex-fonts@tug.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:14:22 +0100 From: "Felix Ritter" Message-Id: <1020119221422.ZM4572@lupo.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 22:14:22 +0100 X-Face: "G@el'n&S~03H-HJ<#s[x/U44irBiS&ub&H$#C.<,ev:_~E2fM{{oWSp32m8OGRsQA8^`H=1lEyJt!4*uksNSQ)c=?k{G'ip#xCh1{ppa?BJ[bV}.Df*_k'O&X-qWB,:LU*but6VNy=YS X-Mailer: Z-Mail (5.0.0 30July97) To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Please help: AMFMs and AFM for MM-fonts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I'm looking for the multiple master ascii font metrics for Adobe CronosMM, KeplerMM, MinionMM and their Expert sets. I've checked Adobes ftp site with no luck. If someone has these files, and would be willing to send them to me, I'd be very grateful. Best regards, Felix From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jan 23 11:40:41 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00160 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:40:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from shell.vex.net (vex.net [216.126.72.2]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0NHbkr17040 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:37:46 +0100 Received: from localhost (782 bytes) by shell.vex.net via send-mail with P:stdio/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:40:35 -0500 (EST) (Smail-3.2.0.106 1999-Mar-31 #8 built 2000-Nov-21) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:40:35 -0500 (EST) From: msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: http://www.tug.org/fontname/fontname_5.html The headings on the pages http://www.tug.org/fontname/fontname_toc.html http://www.tug.org/fontname/fontname_5.html include these: `texmext.enc': TeX math symbol encoding `texmsym.enc': TeX math symbol encoding However, in other places on the latter page, texmext.enc is expanded as "TeX math extension encoding". This suggests that the heading does not say what you intended. (I am not a TeX user; I came across the page during a search for lists of character names.) -- Mark Brader, Toronto | "...everything else in [the] list is wrong; msb@vex.net | why should [this] be correct?" -- Rob Novak From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jan 23 12:40:05 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01714 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:40:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from f7.net (consort.superb.net [209.61.216.22]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0NIbAr17294 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:37:11 +0100 Received: (from karl@localhost) by f7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g0NJdun04240; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:39:56 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:39:56 -0500 From: Karl Berry Message-Id: <200201231939.g0NJdun04240@f7.net> To: msb@vex.net Cc: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: http://www.tug.org/fontname/fontname_5.html (I am not a TeX user; I came across the page during a search for lists of character names.) Special thanks for reporting the error, then :). I'll fix it soon. From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jan 25 13:20:10 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14260 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:20:09 -0700 (MST) Received: from smtp001.nwlink.com (smtp001.nwlink.com [209.20.130.75]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0PJHGr02244 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:17:17 +0100 Received: from HUEWONGH (ip115.c224.blk3.bel.nwlink.com [64.255.224.115]) by smtp001.nwlink.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0PKJUVr003840 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:19:31 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200201252019.g0PKJUVr003840@smtp001.nwlink.com> From: Hue <> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Freelance jobs now avalaible! Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:22:53 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: SA-SMTPMail 1.0 (http://www.aspstudio.com) Reply-To: treep99@yahoo.com Recently unemployed or just need extra income? Log into http://www.econnz.net/jobs and bid on 1000's of freelance jobs in the technical, creative, business development, accounting, legal, and writing fields. Freelance contracts range from $50.00 to 10,000.00 dollars and can be done from your own office using your own computer. As well as freelance project listings, http://www.econnz.net/jobs features online employment related chats and BBS, permanent job listings, small business resources and links and to help you in a employment search. Http://www.econnz.net/jobs From tex-fonts-errors Sat Jan 26 22:16:53 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (smtp.netins.net [167.142.225.203]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02623 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:16:53 -0700 (MST) Received: from [216.51.197.49] (HELO [192.168.0.3]) by cgpf2.cgp.netins.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.8) with ESMTP id 12217596 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:16:52 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:16:46 -0600 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Turo Dexter Subject: Best method for getting accents and entire Type1 character set Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi. (I bow to the masters.) I need access from TeX to accented characters as well as some special characters in Type 1 fonts such as the registered trademark symbol and the bullet. I have been using 7t versions of fonts when I need the accented characters and accessing them by, e.g., \'e for an e acute. When I need the circle-R or bullet I use the 8r version of the font. OK, I hear you laughing, but I'm reasonably new to this and I can't quite discern what to do from Alan Hoenig's excellent book. This is causing a major problem because in the application I have built which calls TeX I cannot use accented characters and these special characters in a single text block because I can only make one font definition. I thought that the 8t versions were supposed to address this, but the accents don't work, at least not the way I call them using the \'e and so on. So that's my first problem: -- how to get accents and special characters all at once? My other problem is that when I build a condensed or expanded version of a font (and sometimes tracked too -- this is the customer's design, not mine, I assure you!) using fontinst, the 7t version seems to work, but there are no accents. My fontinst code is, for example, \input fontinst.sty \installfonts \transformfont{pfuko8rc}% {\xscalefont{900}{\fromafm{pfuko8a}}} \installfamily{noligOT1}{pfu}{} \installfont{pfuko7tc}{pfuko8rc,latin}{noligOT1}{noligOT1}{pfu}{k}{c}{} \installfamily{noligT1}{pfu}{} \installfont{pfuko8rc}{pfuko8rc,latin}{noligT1}{noligT1}{pfu}{k}{c}{} \endinstallfonts \bye and I create entries in psfonts.map like pfuko8rc Futura-BookOblique "0.9 ExtendFont TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont" <8r.enc Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06454 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.137.13] (mariehemsv093.sn.umu.se [130.239.137.13]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02526; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:02:29 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:02:30 +0100 To: Turo Dexter From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: Best method for getting accents and entire Type1 character set Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id IAA06456 At 06.16 +0100 2002-01-27, Turo Dexter wrote: >Hi. (I bow to the masters.) > >I need access from TeX to accented characters as well as some special >characters in Type 1 fonts such as the registered trademark symbol >and the bullet. I have been using 7t versions of fonts when I need >the accented characters and accessing them by, e.g., \'e for an e >acute. When I need the circle-R or bullet I use the 8r version of the >font. OK, I hear you laughing, but I'm reasonably new to this and I >can't quite discern what to do from Alan Hoenig's excellent book. >This is causing a major problem because in the application I have >built which calls TeX I cannot use accented characters and these >special characters in a single text block because I can only make one >font definition. I thought that the 8t versions were supposed to >address this, but the accents don't work, at least not the way I call >them using the \'e and so on. The LaTeX commands generally handle this seamlessly. For example you get LaTeX command OT1 definition T1 (+textcomp) definition ============= ============== ========================= \o \char 28 \char 248 \"o \accent 127 o \char 246 \r{o} \accent 23 o \accent 6 o \textbullet \UseTextSymbol{OMS}% \UseTextSymbol{TS1}% {\textbullet} {\textbullet} The last line is a case where neither OT1 nor T1 contains the vanted character, so LaTeX temporarily switches to a font with another encoding (for \textbullet by default OMS, but after \usepackage{textcomp} the more modern TS1). It all depends on font declarations specifying the right encoding, though. I suspect some of your problems with 8t fonts might be related to making the font selection too explicit, so that it gets out of sync with the encoding used by LaTeX. Normally one switches to using T1 as main document font through the preamble command \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} which implicitly sets \encodingdefault. The family for the main document font is usually set through something like \usepackage{futura}, but that is often equivalent to something like \renewcommand{\rmdefault}{pfu} (or perhaps rather \renewcommand{\sfdefault}{pfu}, since Futura is a sans serif). You should probably read fntguide.tex (included in the LaTeX base distribution). >So that's my first problem: > >-- how to get accents and special characters all at once? > > >My other problem is that when I build a condensed or expanded version >of a font (and sometimes tracked too -- this is the customer's >design, not mine, I assure you!) using fontinst, the 7t version seems >to work, but there are no accents. My fontinst code is, for example, > >\input fontinst.sty >\installfonts > \transformfont{pfuko8rc}% > {\xscalefont{900}{\fromafm{pfuko8a}}} > \installfamily{noligOT1}{pfu}{} > \installfont{pfuko7tc}{pfuko8rc,latin}{noligOT1}{noligOT1}{pfu}{k}{c}{} The fourth argument of \installfont (as well as the first of \installfamily) above are wrong; noligOT1 is not the name of a valid LaTeX encoding. I suspect you rather want \installfamily{OT1}{pfunl}{} \installfont{pfuko7tc}{pfuko8rc,latin}{noligOT1}{OT1}{pfunl}{k}{c}{} that is, you're making a variant family pfunl rather than pfu, but it still has the same encoding. As long as the ligatures you're getting rid of are fi, fl, ff, ffi, and ffl this is quite alright. (If noligOT1 also gets rid of e.g. --, ---, '' and so on things are more problematic.) It should also be remarked that you might get the effect you want more easily by instead saying \installfont{pfuko7tc}{pfuko8rc,noflig,latin}{OT1}{OT1}{pfunl}{k}{c}{} where the file noflig.mtx says \relax \metrics \unsetglyph{fi} \unsetglyph{fl} \unsetglyph{ff} \unsetglyph{ffi} \unsetglyph{ffl} \endmetrics > \installfamily{noligT1}{pfu}{} > \installfont{pfuko8rc}{pfuko8rc,latin}{noligT1}{noligT1}{pfu}{k}{c}{} >\endinstallfonts >\bye > >and I create entries in psfonts.map like > >pfuko8rc Futura-BookOblique "0.9 ExtendFont TeXBase1Encoding >ReEncodeFont" <8r.enc pfuko7tc Futura-BookOblique "0.9 ExtendFont" >The 8r version works fine, but the 7t version's accents are gone. >Interestingly, if I omit the line in psfonts.map for the 7t version, >the font still works but some bizarre character shows up where the >accent should be. The pfuko7tc you make with fontinst is a virtual font and it shouldn't have any entry in the psfonts.map file. The file defining the font is instead pfuko7tc.vf. The pfuko7tc you make with the above line will not be OT1- (a.k.a. 7t-) encoded at all, but 8a-encoded. Since it doesn't have any characters where most TeX encodings keeps the accents, it is not surprising that nothing shows up where you had expected an accent. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jan 27 08:44:27 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06700 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:44:26 -0700 (MST) Received: from pool0502.cvx24-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.211.247] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16UrTj-00043u-00; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 07:44:24 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020127074010.026c4eb0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 07:47:27 -0800 To: Turo Dexter , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Best method for getting accents and entire Type1 character set In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_52177447==_.ALT" --=====================_52177447==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:16 PM 1/26/2002 -0600, Turo Dexter wrote: >re: Best method for getting accents and entire Type1 character? LY1 font encoding. Layout shown at: http://www.YandY.com/art/texnansi.gif Details at: http://www.YandY.com/ly1.htm TFMs for Adobe fonts at: http://www.YandY.com/usely1.htm Notes on the TFMs: http://www.YandY.com/tfmnotes.htm FAQ at http://www.YandY.com/ly1faq.htm Use with DVIPS and AFM2TFM: http://www.YandY.com/maketfm.htm T1 layout for comparison: http://www.YandY.com/art/tex256.gif Missing (yellow) from T1: http://www.YandY.com/art/ly1cork.gif Hence T1 needs in additions TS1: http://www.YandY.com/art/ts1.gif >I need access from TeX to accented characters as well as some special >characters in Type 1 fonts such as the registered trademark symbol and the >bullet. I have been using 7t versions of fonts when I need the accented >characters and accessing them by, e.g., \'e for an e acute. When I need >the circle-R or bullet I use the 8r version of the font. OK, I hear you >laughing, but I'm reasonably new to this and I can't quite discern what to >do from Alan Hoenig's excellent book. This is causing a major problem >because in the application I have built which calls TeX I cannot use >accented characters and these special characters in a single text block >because I can only make one font definition. I thought that the 8t >versions were supposed to address this, but the accents don't work, at >least not the way I call them using the \'e and so on. > >So that's my first problem: > >-- how to get accents and special characters all at once? Use LY1, it has accented characters and typographical characters in one encoding. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (NC) --=====================_52177447==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 11:16 PM 1/26/2002 -0600, Turo Dexter wrote:

re: Best method for getting accents and entire Type1 character?

LY1 font encoding. 

Layout shown at: http://www.YandY.com/art/texnansi.gif

Details at: http://www.YandY.com/ly1.htm

TFMs for Adobe fonts at: http://www.YandY.com/usely1.htm

Notes on the TFMs: http://www.YandY.com/tfmnotes.htm

FAQ at http://www.YandY.com/ly1faq.htm

Use with DVIPS and AFM2TFM: http://www.YandY.com/maketfm.htm

T1 layout for comparison: http://www.YandY.com/art/tex256.gif
Missing (yellow) from T1: http://www.YandY.com/art/ly1cork.gif
Hence T1 needs in additions TS1: http://www.YandY.com/art/ts1.gif

I need access from TeX to accented characters as well as some special characters in Type 1 fonts such as the registered trademark symbol and the bullet. I have been using 7t versions of fonts when I need the accented characters and accessing them by, e.g., \'e for an e acute. When I need the circle-R or bullet I use the 8r version of the font. OK, I hear you laughing, but I'm reasonably new to this and I can't quite discern what to do from Alan Hoenig's excellent book. This is causing a major problem because in the application I have built which calls TeX I cannot use accented characters and these special characters in a single text block because I can only make one font definition. I thought that the 8t versions were supposed to address this, but the accents don't work, at least not the way I call them using the \'e and so on.

So that's my first problem:

-- how to get accents and special characters all at once?

Use LY1, it has accented characters and typographical characters
in one encoding.



--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (NC) --=====================_52177447==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jan 27 15:04:38 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09768 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:04:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx.pcnet.ro (mx.pcnet.ro [213.154.128.3]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0RL1jr14566 for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:01:46 +0100 Received: from ganga (isdn451.bb0.pcnet.ro [213.154.130.250] (may be forged)) by mx.pcnet.ro (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA10761 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:04:31 +0200 Message-ID: <002201bd25ef$26ce2ee0$fa829ad5@ganga> From: "mihai ganga" To: Subject: A little help ! Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:02:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD25FF.E871C420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD25FF.E871C420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Where do I find the fonts msym(10,9,etc.) - TFM fonts - and how can I = install them into Miktex ? Best regards, mihai ganga, ganga@pcnet.ro ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD25FF.E871C420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Where do I find the fonts = msym(10,9,etc.) - TFM=20 fonts - and how can I install them into Miktex ?
 
Best regards,
 mihai ganga, ganga@pcnet.ro
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD25FF.E871C420-- From tex-fonts-errors Mon Jan 28 09:24:32 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20111 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:24:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.211.1]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0SFLer17914 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:21:40 +0100 Received: from isar.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (isar [129.69.215.232]) by ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (8.9.3/2.2) with ESMTP id RAA00153; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:24:03 +0100 (MET) Received: (from raichle@localhost) by isar.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (8.9.3/2.2) id RAA16509; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:24:25 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: isar.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de: raichle set sender to raichle@Informatik.Uni-Stuttgart.DE using -f From: Bernd Raichle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15445.31545.399679.331343@is.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:24:25 +0100 (MET) To: Subject: Re: A little help ! In-Reply-To: <002201bd25ef$26ce2ee0$fa829ad5@ganga> References: <002201bd25ef$26ce2ee0$fa829ad5@ganga> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.7.1 On Wednesday, 21 January 1998 00:02:48 +0200, mihai ganga writes: > Where do I find the fonts msym(10,9,etc.) - TFM fonts - and how can I install them into Miktex ? The ``msxm'' and ``msym'' AMS symbol fonts are totally out of date, and were replaced by the newer ones, named ``msam'' and ``msbm''. If you still have documents or dvi files containing references to the old fonts, it's best if you are using the virtual fonts at CTAN in directory fonts/vf-files/msx2msa/. Just get the *.vpl files from CTAN, call vftovp to generate the tfm and vf files, put the tfm into texmf-local/fonts/tfm/ams/msx/ and the vf into texmf-local/fonts/vf/ams/msx/. Finally rebuild your file name database (please read the MikTeX docu how to do this) and all should be done. If one of your dvi driver (e.g. Previewer or printer driver) is not able to use virtual fonts, you can use the tool ``dvicopy'' to convert a dvi file with references to vf into a new one without. Best wishes, -bernd PS: I'm human, I'm not an HTML browser. Please parametrize your mail reader to send mails as "text only", not as "text and html" ... > > > > [... more HTML code with your mail text ...] From tex-fonts-errors Wed Feb 6 01:45:13 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <"syurish-IFSA-return-2-tex-fonts@=tug.org"@webcommunity.com> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21028 for ; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 01:45:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from mx1.p3.infostreet.com (mx1.infostreet.com [205.137.49.249]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g167gNr30295 for <"tex-fonts@"@tug.org>; Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:42:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 19576 invoked by uid 15); 6 Feb 2002 08:40:14 +0000 Mailing-List: contact syurish-IFSA-help@webcommunity.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Delivered-To: mailing list syurish-IFSA@webcommunity.com Delivered-To: moderator for syurish-IFSA@webcommunity.com Received: (qmail 14939 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2002 18:23:42 +0000 Message-ID: <20020205182341.19215.qmail@three.p3.infostreet.com> Date: 5 Feb 2002 18:23:41 +0000 Reply-To: "info@sensorsportal.com" To: syurish-IFSA@webcommunity.com From: "info@sensorsportal.com" Subject: IFSA Newsletter (30 Jan. 2002) Date: Tue Feb 5 18:23:41 2002 -0500 -0500 X-Mailer: WebMail for WebCommunities ========================================================================= Welcome to Sensors Web Portal INTERNATIONAL FREQUENCY SENSORS ASSOCIATION (IFSA) NEWSLETTER http://www.sensorsportal.com January 30, 2002 ========================================================================= This monthly e-newsletter, written by the editors of Sensors & Transducers e-Digest, delivers the product and research news you asked for, and updates you on happenings in the sensor science and industry. 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Yurish, Vice President -------------------------------------------------------------- International Frequency Sensor Association (IFSA) European Office: Bandera str., 12 79008, Lviv, UA Tel./fax: +-380 322 721746 E-mail: info@sensorsportal.com Http://www.sensorsportal.com - End - From tex-fonts-errors Tue Feb 26 09:10:16 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from f7.net ([209.61.216.22]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28184 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:10:15 -0700 (MST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by f7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1QG8WA25890; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:08:32 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 11:08:32 -0500 Message-Id: <200202261608.g1QG8WA25890@f7.net> From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu, texhax@tex.ac.uk, ctan-ann@tug.org Subject: modes.mf 3.5 available I have released version 3.5 of modes.mf. You can get it by anonymous ftp from ftp://tug.org/tex/modes.mf and shortly from any CTAN site in /tex-archive/fonts/modes/modes-3.5.mf. See http://www.ctan.org/ a list of CTAN mirrors and other information News: New epson-related modes for the old 9-pin series. Various email addresses corrected. As always, thanks to the many contributors, and further additions and improvements are welcome. Please send bug reports or suggestions to tex-fonts@math.utah.edu (email tex-fonts-request to join). General information: modes.mf is a collection of Metafont mode_def's. It also makes common definitions for write/white printers, `special' information, and landscape mode. It uses up too much memory for the table sizes in the original mf.web, so you either have to increase the sizes (has been done in Web2c) or rename the file and remove unneeded modes. I don't understand mf.web well enough to understand how to make the modes use less memory; if some Metafont hacker can tell me, I'd like to hear it. If you have mode_def's which are not listed below, or corrections to the existing ones, please send them to me. Improvements to the exposition, particularly in how to create a new mode_def, are also welcome. kb@tug.org mode_def agfafzz = % AGFA 400PS (406dpi) mode_def agfatfzz = % AGFA P3400PS (400dpi) mode_def amiga = % Commodore Amiga (100dpi) mode_def aps = % Autologic APS-Micro5 (723dpi) mode_def apssixhi = % Autologic APS-Micro6 (1016dpi) mode_def atariezf = % Atari ST SLM 804 printer (300dpi) mode_def atarinf = % Atari previewer (95dpi) mode_def atarins = % Atari previewer (96dpi) mode_def atariotf = % Atari ST SM 124 screen (101dpi) mode_def bitgraph = % BBN Bitgraph (118dpi) mode_def bjtenex = % Canon BubbleJet 10ex (360dpi) mode_def bjtzzex = % Canon BubbleJet 200ex (360 dpi) mode_def bjtzzs = % Canon BubbleJet 200 (720x360dpi) mode_def bjtzzl = % BubbleJet 200 landscape (360x720 dpi) mode_def boise = % HP 2680A (180dpi) mode_def canonbjc = % Canon BJC-600 (360dpi) mode_def canonex = % LaserWriter Pro 630 (600dpi) mode_def canonlbp = % Symbolics LGP-10 (240dpi) mode_def cg = % Compugraphic 8600 (1301x1569dpi) mode_def cgl = % Compugraphic 8600 landscape (1569x1302dpi) mode_def cgnszz = % Compugraphic 9600 (1200dpi) mode_def crs = % Alphatype CRS (5333dpi) mode_def cx = % Canon CX, SX, LBP-LX (300dpi) mode_def datadisc = % DataDisc (70dpi) mode_def newdd = % DataDisc (70x93dpi) mode_def declarge = % DEC 19-inch, 1280 x 1024 (100dpi) mode_def decsmall = % DEC 17-inch, 1024 x 768 (82dpi) mode_def deskjet = % HP DeskJet 500 (300dpi) mode_def docutech = % Xerox 8790 or 4045 (600dpi) mode_def dover = % Xerox Dover (384dpi) mode_def eighthre = % EightThree (83dpi) mode_def epscszz = % Epson Stylus Color 600 (720 dpi) mode_def epsdrft = % Epson (120x72dpi) mode_def epsdrftl = % Epson (72x120dpi) mode_def epsfast = % Epson fast (60x72dpi) mode_def epsfastl = % Epson fast landscape (72x60dpi) mode_def epsmed = % Epson med MX/FX 9-pin (240x144dpi) mode_def epsmedl = % Epson med MX/FX 9-pin landscape (144x240dpi) mode_def epson = % Epson MX/FX 9-pin (240x216dpi) mode_def epsonl = % Epson MX/FX 9-pin landscape (216x240dpi) mode_def epsonact = % Epson Action Laser 1500 (300dpi) mode_def epsonlo = % Epson (120x216dpi) mode_def epsonlol = % Epson landscape (216x120dpi) mode_def epsonsq = % Epson SQ 870 (360dpi) mode_def epstypro = % Epson Stylus Pro (360dpi) mode_def epstyplo = % Epson Stylus Pro (180dpi) mode_def epstypmd = % Epson Stylus Pro (720x360dpi) mode_def epswlo = % Epson low MX/FX 9-pin (120x144dpi) mode_def epswlol = % Epson low MX/FX 9-pin landscape (144x120dpi) mode_def esphi = % Epson Stylus Pro (720dpi) mode_def epstylus = % Epson Stylus (360dpi) mode_def fourfour = % FourFour (44dpi) mode_def gtfax = % G3fax (204x196dpi) mode_def gtfaxl = % G3fax landscape (196x204dpi) mode_def gtfaxlo = % G3fax (204x98dpi) mode_def gtfaxlol = % G3fax landscape (98x204dpi) mode_def highfax = % G3fax (200dpi) mode_def hprugged = % HP RuggedWriter 480 (180dpi) mode_def ibm_a = % IBM 38xx (240dpi) mode_def ibmd = % IBM 38xx (240dpi) mode_def ibmega = % IBM EGA monitor (96x81dpi) mode_def ibmegal = % IBM EGA monitor landscape (81x96dpi) mode_def ibmfzon = % IBM 4019 (300dpi) mode_def ibmfztn = % IBM 4029-30-39, 4250 (600dpi) mode_def ibmpp = % IBM ProPrinter (240x216dpi) mode_def ibmppl = % IBM ProPrinter (216x240dpi) mode_def ibmsoff = % IBM 6154 display (118dpi) mode_def sherpa = % IBM 6670 (Sherpa) (240dpi) mode_def ibmteot = % IBM 3812 (240dpi) mode_def ibmtetz = % IBM 3820 (240dpi) mode_def ibmtont = % IBM 3193 screen (100dpi) mode_def ibmtosn = % IBM 3179 screen (87x65dpi) mode_def ibmtosnl = % IBM 3179 screen landscape (65x87dpi) mode_def ibmvga = % IBM VGA monitor (110dpi) mode_def ibx = % Chelgraph IBX (9600dpi) mode_def itoh = % CItoh 8510A (160x144dpi) mode_def itohl = % CItoh 8510A landscape (144x160dpi) mode_def itohtoz = % CItoh 310 (240x144dpi) mode_def itohtozl = % CItoh 310 landscape (144x240dpi) mode_def iw = % Apple ImageWriter (144dpi) mode_def jetiiisi = % HP Laser Jet IIISi (300dpi) mode_def lasf = % DEC LA75 (144dpi) mode_def lexmarkr = % Lexmark Optra R 4049 (1200dpi) mode_def lexmarks = % Lexmark Optra S 1250/1650/2450 (1200dpi) mode_def lexmarku = % Lexmark Optra R+ 4049 (600dpi) mode_def linolo = % Linotype Linotronic [13]00 (635dpi) mode_def linolttz = % Linotronic L-300 with RIP-50 (3386dpi) mode_def linoone = % Linotronic [13]00 (1270dpi) mode_def linotzzh = % Linotype Linotronic 300 (2540dpi) mode_def ljfive = % HP LaserJet 5 (600dpi) mode_def ljfivemp = % HP LaserJet 5MP (600 dpi) mode_def ljfour = % HP LaserJet 4 (600dpi) mode_def ljfzzz = % LaserJet 4000N, ProRes mode (1200dpi) mode_def ljfzzzfr = % HP LaserJet 4000 FastRes (600dpi) mode_def ljlo = % HP LaserJet (150dpi) mode_def lmaster = % LaserMaster (1000dpi) mode_def lnotr = % DEC LN03R Scriptprinter (300dpi) mode_def lnzo = % DEC LN01 (300dpi) mode_def lpstz = % DEC lps20 (300dpi) mode_def lqlores = % Epson LQ-500 (180dpi) mode_def lqmed = % Epson LQ-500 (360x180dpi) mode_def lqmedl = % Epson LQ-500 landscape (180x360dpi) mode_def lview = % Sigma L-View monitor (118x109dpi) mode_def lwpro = % Apple LaserWriterPro 810 (800dpi) mode_def macmag = % Mac screens at magstep 1 (86dpi) mode_def mactrue = % Mac screen (72dpi) mode_def ncd = % NCD 19-inch (95dpi) mode_def nec = % NEC (180dpi) mode_def nechi = % NEC-P6 (360dpi) mode_def neclm = % NEC PC-PR406LM (320dpi) mode_def nectzo = % NEC PC-PR201 series (160dpi) mode_def nexthi = % NeXT Newgen (400dpi) mode_def nextscrn = % NeXT monitor (100dpi) mode_def nineone = % NineOne (91x91) (91dpi) mode_def nullmode = % TFM files only (101dpi) mode_def onetz = % OneTwoZero (120/120) (120dpi) mode_def ocessfz = % OCE 6750-PS (508dpi) mode_def okidata = % Okidata (240x288dpi) mode_def okidatal = % Okidata landscape (288x240dpi) mode_def okifte = % Okidata 410e in 600DPI mode (600dpi) mode_def pcscreen = % also, e.g., high-resolution Suns (118dpi) mode_def pcprevw = % PC screen preview (118dpi) mode_def phaser = % Tektronix Phaser PXi (300dpi) mode_def phaserfs = % Tektronix Phaser 560 (1200dpi) mode_def phasertf = % Tektronix Phaser 350 (600x300dpi) mode_def pixpt = % one pixel per point (72.27dpi) mode_def prntware = % Printware 720IQ (1200dpi) mode_def qms = % QMS (Xerox engine) (300dpi) mode_def qmsostf = % QMS 1725 (600dpi) mode_def qmsoszz = % QMS 1700 (600dpi) mode_def qmstftf = % QMS 2425 (1200dpi) mode_def ricoh = % e.g., TI Omnilaser (300dpi) mode_def ricoha = % e.g., IBM 4216 (300dpi) mode_def ricohlp = % e.g., DEC LN03 (300dpi) mode_def ricohsp = % Ricoh sp10ps/lp7200-ux (600dpi) mode_def sparcptr = % Sun SPARCprinter (400dpi) mode_def starnlt = % Star NL-10 (240x216dpi) mode_def starnltl = % Star NL-10 landscape (216x240dpi) mode_def stylewri = % Apple StyleWriter (360dpi) mode_def sun = % Sun and BBN Bitgraph (85dpi) mode_def supre = % Ultre*setter (2400dpi) mode_def toshiba = % Toshiba 13XX, EpsonLQ (180dpi) mode_def ultre = % Ultre*setter (1200dpi) mode_def vs = % VAXstation monitor (78dpi) mode_def vtftzz = % Varityper 4200 B-P (1800dpi) mode_def vtftzzhi = % Varityper 4300P (2400dpi) mode_def vtftzzlo = % Varityper 4300P (1200dpi) mode_def vtfzszw = % Varitype 5060W, APS 6 (600dpi) mode_def vtszz = % Varityper Laser 600 (600dpi) mode_def xrxesnz = % Xerox 8790 or 4045 (300dpi) mode_def xrxfzfz = % Xerox 4050/4075/4090/4700 (300dpi) mode_def xrxnszz = % Xerox 9700 (300dpi) mode_def xrxtszz = % Xerox 3700 (300dpi) From tex-fonts-errors Tue Feb 26 23:21:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10903 for ; Tue, 26 Feb 2002 23:21:14 -0700 (MST) From: vtxid@yahoo.com Received: from hedy.com.cn ([61.140.76.163]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1R5IVr12490; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 06:18:31 +0100 Received: from yahoo.com (da001d1700.dal-tx.osd.concentric.net [66.89.144.169]) by hedy.com.cn (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g1R6aTC14026; Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:36:33 +0800 (CST) Subject: toner supplies 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From tex-fonts-errors Fri Mar 1 07:03:42 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mout03.kundenserver.de (mout03.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.218]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25606 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 07:03:41 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.20.224.219] (helo=mrvdom03.kundenserver.de) by mout03.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16gndL-0001bn-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:03:39 +0100 Received: from [213.182.137.91] (helo=levana) by mrvdom03.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16gndL-00018s-00; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:03:39 +0100 Received: from levana ([127.0.0.1] ident=pg) by levana with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16gnd8-0000Ll-00; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:03:26 +0100 From: Patrick Gundlach To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: tfm used by dvips Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:03:26 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Lieblingsmusik: Chris and Cosey MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02030115032600.01269@levana> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi! Hopefully this is not off topic: Why is it, that dvips does not work when it cannot find the tfm files of the font I used? dvips: Can't open font metric file ptmr8r.tfm dvips: I will use cmr10.tfm instead, so expect bad output. dvips: ! I can't find cmr10.tfm; please reinstall me with proper paths Are there any other dvi drivers that needs the tfm files? -- Viele Grüße, Patrick Gundlach From tex-fonts-errors Fri Mar 1 08:56:08 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from moutvdom00.kundenserver.de (moutvdom00.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.149]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27101 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:56:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from [195.20.224.204] (helo=mrvdom00.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16gpO9-0002DS-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:56:05 +0100 Received: from [195.226.103.126] (helo=levana) by mrvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16gpO6-0006Sc-00; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:56:02 +0100 Received: from levana ([127.0.0.1] ident=pg) by levana with smtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16gpK3-0000Pm-00; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:51:51 +0100 From: Patrick Gundlach To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:51:51 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" References: <02030115032600.01269@levana> In-Reply-To: <02030115032600.01269@levana> X-Lieblingsmusik: Chris and Cosey MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02030116515100.01534@levana> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi again, > dvips: Can't open font metric file ptmr8r.tfm > dvips: I will use cmr10.tfm instead, so expect bad output. > dvips: ! I can't find cmr10.tfm; please reinstall me with proper paths I should add that I have forced dvips not to find the tfm files (with TFMFONTS=. dvips ... on my unix box). I just wanted to make sure that it really needs them. My question is *why* dvips needs them. -- Viele Grüße, Patrick Gundlach From tex-fonts-errors Fri Mar 1 09:26:47 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27711 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA26128; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:26:43 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <02030116515100.01534@levana> References: <02030115032600.01269@levana> <02030115032600.01269@levana> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:26:43 +0100 To: Patrick Gundlach From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id JAA27712 At 16.51 +0100 2002-03-01, Patrick Gundlach wrote: >Hi again, > >> dvips: Can't open font metric file ptmr8r.tfm >> dvips: I will use cmr10.tfm instead, so expect bad output. >> dvips: ! I can't find cmr10.tfm; please reinstall me with proper paths > > >I should add that I have forced dvips not to find the tfm files (with >TFMFONTS=. dvips ... on my unix box). I just wanted to make sure that it >really needs them. My question is *why* dvips needs them. Mainly because the DVI format doesn't explicitly give the position for each glyph, but rather relies on that the driver advances the "current position" by the width of each glyph it prints. PK fonts also contain some width information, but there everything has been rounded to the printer resolution and it is up to the driver to make sure the errors don't accumulate too much (this is the infamous "drift correction"). For some combinations of output format and font technology it might well be possible to write a driver that could work without TFM files, but MetaFont wouldn't be amongst those technologies. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Fri Mar 1 09:30:07 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27813 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:30:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-009casfrmp053.dialsprint.net ([158.252.240.55] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16gpv0-0003hp-00; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:30:03 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301082511.0263d988@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:29:38 -0800 To: Patrick Gundlach , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: <02030115032600.01269@levana> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_297828464==_.ALT" --=====================_297828464==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H: At 15:03 3/1/2002 +0100, Patrick Gundlach wrote: >Why is it, that dvips does not work when it cannot find the tfm files of >the font I used? > >dvips: Can't open font metric file ptmr8r.tfm >dvips: I will use cmr10.tfm instead, so expect bad output. >dvips: ! I can't find cmr10.tfm; please reinstall me with proper paths > >Are there any other dvi drivers that needs the tfm files? There is in general no reason for a DVI driver to read TFM metric files, since it has the fonts, and the fonts "know their metrics". DVIPS does not produce resolution-independent output and in order to do this it rounds off metrics to some grid of resolution specified by the user. It uses the information in TFM files to do this and replaces the advance widths of the fonts with the rounded off values based on this. Use of TFM, and not producing resolution-independent output are amongst the misfeatures of DVIPS. Regards, Berthold. >Viele Gr=FC=DFe, Patrick Gundlach -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph = (BK) --=====================_297828464==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H:

At 15:03 3/1/2002 +0100, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

Why is it, that dvips does not wor= k when it cannot find the tfm files of
the font I used?

dvips: Can't open font metric file ptmr8r.tfm
dvips: I will use cmr10.tfm instead, so expect bad output.
dvips: ! I can't find cmr10.tfm; please reinstall me with proper paths

Are there any other dvi drivers that needs the tfm files?

There is in general no reason for a DVI driver to read TFM metric
files, since it has the fonts, and the fonts "know their metrics".

DVIPS does not produce resolution-independent output
and in order to do this it rounds off metrics to some grid of
resolution specified by the user.   It uses the information in
TFM files to do this and replaces the advance widths of the
fonts with the rounded off values based on this.

Use of TFM, and not producing resolution-independent
output are amongst the misfeatures of DVIPS.

Regards, Berthold.
 
Viele Gr=FC=DFe,      Patrick Gundlach

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu= http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_297828464==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Fri Mar 1 09:40:53 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from trinity.warande.net (warande0147.warande.uu.nl [131.211.120.147]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27991 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:40:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from camarena.trinity.warande.net ([10.10.10.11] helo=camarena) by trinity.warande.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Red Hat Linux)) id 16gq5R-0005fq-00 for ; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:40:49 +0100 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 17:40:57 +0100 From: xander X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: xander Organization: TRiN!TY X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <153100276339.20010301174057@trinity.warande.net> To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: `bread' font MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, Let me introduce myself. I'm a student Computing Sciences at the University of Utrecht and currently working on my thesis. I have been using LaTeX for quite some time now and know a little bit about fonts (kerning, ligatures, bla) and even less about the way it is handled in the TeX system (fontinst etc.). Now, my problem is I'm fed up with Computer Roman fonts ;-P Ok, your document is guaranteed to look nice, but it is too common for me ;-) So I have been using alternatives now for months and I really like to know which font sets you prefer as a bread font. With bread font a mean a font that makes long texts easily readable both on screen and paper (sans serif fonts do not fit in this category IMHO), especially postscript fonts as I deliver my texts as PDF. What do you like? -- Best regards, xander mailto:xvw@trinity.warande.net From tex-fonts-errors Fri Mar 1 13:33:48 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail3.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.180]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02597 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:33:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from heraldgate1.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.49] helo=frontend1.herald.ox.ac.uk ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16gtir-0007ii-03; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:33:45 +0000 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17] ident=mail) by frontend1.herald.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16gtir-0001vF-00; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:33:45 +0000 Received: from rahtz by spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 16gtir-00033M-00; Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:33:45 +0000 Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:33:45 +0000 From: Sebastian Rahtz To: xander Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: `bread' font Message-ID: <20020301203345.GA11735@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> References: <153100276339.20010301174057@trinity.warande.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <153100276339.20010301174057@trinity.warande.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: Sebastian Rahtz On Thu, Mar 01, 2001 at 05:40:57PM +0100, xander wrote: > > Now, my problem is I'm fed up with Computer Roman fonts ;-P > Ok, your document is guaranteed to look nice, but it is too common for > me ;-) its not as common as Times.... > So I have been using alternatives now for months and I really like > to know which font sets you prefer as a bread font. With bread font a > mean a font that makes long texts easily readable both on screen and > paper (sans serif fonts do not fit in this category IMHO), especially > postscript fonts as I deliver my texts as PDF. I don't think there is a perfect font for both book and screen. personally, I use Lucida Bright when I want something readable. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From tex-fonts-errors Fri Mar 1 16:51:55 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (relay1.EECS.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.60.163]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06513 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:51:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay3.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by relay1.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12412 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabre1.ai.mit.edu (dhcp-45-69.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.45.69]) by relay3.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18549 for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:51:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:51:53 -0800 To: From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: At 12:12 AM 3/2/2002 +0100, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > > There is in general no reason for a DVI driver to read TFM > > metric files, since it has the fonts, and the fonts "know their > > metrics". > >If you talk about Type1 fonts, does this mean that I can retrieve all >the kerning pairs I find in an afm file from the pfb file? Of course, we all know what the exact story is on that one :-) Do you think DVIPS uses kerning pairs :-)? Does a DVI driver need font metrics? Of course not. > > Use of TFM, and not producing resolution-independent output are > > amongst the misfeatures of DVIPS. > >If you want to support bitmap fonts, you cannot produce resolution-independent output. By definition, if you include bitmapped fonts then the output is not resolution-independent. One of many good reasons not to use legacy MetaFont PK bitmapped fonts. But DVIPS in addition forces adjustment to a grid, which makes no sense, in particular when using scalable outline fonts. Regards, Berthold. >Regards, Reinhard > >PS: What is all that HTML shit good for? > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 >Berggartenstr. 9 >D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (MT) From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 2 09:01:22 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA14966 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:01:21 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203021601.JAA14966@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 17014 invoked by uid 101); 2 Mar 2002 16:01:15 -0000 Received: from pd902b8af.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (217.2.184.175) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 16:01:15 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:01:07 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: hyphen appears twice in 8r.enc -- why? Hi, why does the /hyphen appear twice in 8r.enc? The comment in the file says this is "for compatibility with both ASCII and Windows". I don't understand that. Fonts, that are reencoded to 8r, are used only to build VFs upon them; these VFs use the hyphen in slot 0x2D. Why is there a second one in slot 0xAD? Changing the latter to /.notdef _seems_ not to do any harm, as far as TeX is concerned... The reason behind my question is: There is a bug in recent versions of Ghostscript, which is triggered by the "double" hyphen, see -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 2 09:42:35 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15573 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:42:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-023casfrmp204.dialsprint.net ([63.183.8.206] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hCaX-00050B-00; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:42:26 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:41:56 -0800 To: "Walter Schmidt" , "tex-fonts" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: hyphen appears twice in 8r.enc -- why? In-Reply-To: <200203021601.JAA14966@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_86286112==_.ALT" --=====================_86286112==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi: At 17:01 3/2/2002 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote: >why does the /hyphen appear twice in 8r.enc? > >The comment in the file says this is "for compatibility >with both ASCII and Windows". I don't understand that. > >Fonts, that are reencoded to 8r, are used only to build >VFs upon them; these VFs use the hyphen in slot 0x2D. Actually, 8r is not only used for VF, but can, and is, used as a proper encoding in its own right (although, since LY1 is even better, there is little interest now in doing this). One important reason for two slots for "hyphen" is that one can be used for "sfthyphen" or for a "hanging hyphen". This is one rare circumstance where a difference between TFM metrics and the actual font may be permissible (since it always occurs at the end of a line). If the font does not actually have a second hyphen for this purpose, what one can do is use the second code for hyphens generated by hyphenation, make its TFM width smaller than the actual width, but map both to the glyph "hyphen" (of course it is even better if the font has a hanging hyphen (such as the "European Modern" EM fonts), and an encoding is used that exposes this - such as LY1). When 8r was being designed, suggestions for additional duplications were made by me (for acute, cedilla, macron, tilde, dieresis, circumflex, quoteright, germandbls, oslash, ae, oe, AE, OE, Oslash), these were dropped on the grounds that the empty slots could be reserved for future use instead. Of course, since this is supposed to be a standard, such additions could never be made, but arguments to that effect were ignored at the time. >Why is there a second one in slot 0xAD? Changing the >latter to /.notdef _seems_ not to do any harm, as far >as TeX is concerned... > >The reason behind my question is: There is a bug in recent >versions of Ghostscript, which is triggered by the "double" >hyphen, see > Oh no. Problems with "repeat encoding" have periodically plagued commercial software like Adobe Illustrator. Too bad such bad habits are now being duplicated elsewhere... regards, Berthold. >-- >Walter -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_86286112==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi:

At 17:01 3/2/2002 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote:

why does the /hyphen appear twice in 8r.enc?

The comment in the file says this is "for compatibility
with both ASCII and Windows".  I don't understand that.

Fonts, that are reencoded to 8r, are used only to build
VFs upon them; these VFs use the  hyphen in slot 0x2D.

Actually, 8r is not only used for VF, but can, and is, used
as a proper encoding in its own right
(although, since LY1 is even better, there is little interest
now in doing this).

One important reason for two slots for "hyphen" is that one
can be used for "sfthyphen" or for a "hanging hyphen".
This is one rare circumstance where a difference between
TFM metrics and the actual font may be permissible
(since it always occurs at the end of a line).
If the font does not actually have a second hyphen for this purpose,
what one can do is use the second code for hyphens generated
by hyphenation, make its TFM width smaller than the actual width,
but map both to the glyph "hyphen"
(of course it is even better if the font has a hanging hyphen
(such as the "European Modern" EM fonts), and
an encoding is used that exposes this - such as LY1).

When 8r was being designed, suggestions for additional
duplications were made by me
(for acute, cedilla, macron, tilde, dieresis, circumflex,
quoteright, germandbls, oslash, ae, oe, AE, OE, Oslash),
these were dropped
on the grounds that the empty slots could be reserved
for future use instead.  Of course, since this is supposed
to be a standard, such additions could never be made,
but arguments to that effect were ignored at the time.

Why is there a second one in slot 0xAD?  Changing the
latter to /.notdef _seems_ not to do any harm, as far
as TeX is concerned...

The reason behind my question is:  There is a bug in recent
versions of Ghostscript, which is triggered by the "double"
hyphen, see
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=517474&group_id=1897&atid=101897>

Oh no.  Problems with "repeat encoding" have periodically
plagued commercial software like Adobe Illustrator. Too bad
such bad habits are now being duplicated elsewhere...

regards, Berthold.

--
Walter

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_86286112==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 2 11:27:19 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA16408 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:27:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 17480 invoked by uid 101); 2 Mar 2002 18:27:16 -0000 Received: from pd902ba93.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (217.2.186.147) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 2 Mar 2002 18:27:16 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:25:31 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: hyphen appears twice in 8r.enc -- why? On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:41:56 -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >Actually, 8r is not only used for VF, but can, and is, used >as a proper encoding in its own right Q: Is there anyone on this list, who is actually doing so? Typesetting with 8r encoding is not and was never officially supported. IMO, one more encoding beside T1, TS1 and LY1 is the last thing we need! -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 2 11:35:57 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16493 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:35:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-018casfrmp049.dialsprint.net ([158.252.222.51] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hEMM-0000Ue-00; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:35:54 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302103118.025e1030@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:35:25 -0800 To: "Walter Schmidt" , "tex-fonts" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: hyphen appears twice in 8r.enc -- why? In-Reply-To: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_93095213==_.ALT" --=====================_93095213==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi: At 19:25 3/2/2002 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:41:56 -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > >Actually, 8r is not only used for VF, but can, and is, used > >as a proper encoding in its own right > >Q: Is there anyone on this list, who is actually doing so? Probably not many. Many years ago, (text) fonts from Y&Y came with TFMs for several encodings, including 8r. Remember that 8r was designed many years ago when this whole font encoding and input encoding idea was very new and uncertain. So some of the suggestions, such as repeating some glyph encodings, were aimed at dealing with incompatibilities and quirks at the time. For example, some things work naturally, without effort, if the output encoding matches the input encoding...even though this is probably not the recommended approach today. >Typesetting with 8r encoding is not and was never officially >supported. IMO, one more encoding beside T1, TS1 and LY1 is >the last thing we need! Agreed (although you forgot to list LM1, the text font encoding used by Textures :-). regards, Berthold >Walter -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_93095213==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi:

At 19:25 3/2/2002 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote:

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:41:56 -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote:

>Actually, 8r is not only used for VF, but can, and is, used
>as a proper encoding in its own right

Q:  Is there anyone on this list, who is actually doing so?

Probably not many. Many years ago, (text) fonts from Y&Y
came with TFMs for several encodings, including 8r.

Remember that 8r was designed many years ago when this
whole font encoding and input encoding idea was very new
and uncertain. 

So some of the suggestions, such as repeating some glyph
encodings, were aimed at dealing with incompatibilities
and quirks at the time. For example, some things work
naturally, without effort, if the output encoding matches the
input encoding...even though this is probably not the
recommended approach today.

Typesetting with 8r encoding is not and was never officially
supported.  IMO, one more encoding beside T1, TS1 and LY1 is
the last thing we need! 

Agreed (although you forgot to list LM1, the text font encoding
used by Textures :-).

regards, Berthold
 
Walter

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_93095213==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 2 13:58:45 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17764 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:58:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-016casfrmp056.dialsprint.net ([158.252.220.58] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hGaZ-0001q4-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:58:44 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302124823.025e02e0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 12:57:17 -0800 To: "tex-fonts" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Plethora of encodings, does it matter? In-Reply-To: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_101664415==_.ALT" --=====================_101664415==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Pursuant to the discussion of double encoding of glyphs, I don't think having many encodings available is per se a bad thing, since it mostly just means one extra xxxenc.def file per encoding. The only nasty aspect is that some style files make a habit of assuming there is only T1 and OT1, and have loads of conditional code doing one thing or another depending on which of those two it is, and, worse yet, making the default be OT1. An example would be "ngerman.sty" which, as it stands - without small modifications - fails when confronted with another encoding, such as LY1 or LM1. Is there a fundamental reason why style files can't be more independent of encoding issues? If it were not for this, switching between different text font encodings would be as simple as it should be. regards, Berthold. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_101664415==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"


Pursuant to the discussion of double encoding of glyphs,
I don't think having many encodings available is per se a
bad thing, since it mostly just means one extra xxxenc.def
file per encoding.

The only nasty aspect is that some style files make a habit of
assuming there is only T1 and OT1, and have loads of
conditional code doing one thing or another depending
on which of those two it is, and, worse yet, making the
default be OT1.  An example would be "ngerman.sty"
which, as it stands - without small modifications - fails
when confronted with another encoding, such as LY1 or LM1.

Is there a fundamental reason why style files can't be
more independent of encoding issues?  If it were not
for this, switching between different text font encodings
would be as simple as it should be.

regards, Berthold.

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_101664415==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 2 14:41:12 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from postfix3-2.free.fr (postfix3-2.free.fr [213.228.0.169]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18107 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:41:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from varese (grenoble-1-a7-73-116.dial.proxad.net [62.147.73.116]) by postfix3-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C037E18123; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:41:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:41:08 +0100 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: Thierry Bouche Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <625062429.20020302224108@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: "Walter Schmidt" Cc: "tex-fonts" Subject: Re[2]: hyphen appears twice in 8r.enc -- why? In-Reply-To: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> References: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le samedi 2 mars 2002, à 19:25:31, Walter Schmidt écrivit : WS> On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:41:56 -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >>Actually, 8r is not only used for VF, but can, and is, used >>as a proper encoding in its own right WS> Q: Is there anyone on this list, who is actually doing so? WS> Typesetting with 8r encoding is not and was never officially WS> supported. hey, this is wrong! the whole ligfull aspect of 8r "raw" fonts is precisely that they could be used as tex fonts, not only base fonts. there was an 8r.sty to support this, that vanished from distribs when TS1 was released, but probably not from all computers... I still use routinely some 8r glyphs that, for some reason I don't find satisfactory in other encodings. -- Cordialement, Thierry From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 2 19:40:49 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from kammer.uni-hannover.de (zaphod.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.53]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20510 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:40:48 -0700 (MST) Received: from zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de.kammer.uni-hannover.de (reinhard@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de [130.75.139.54]) by kammer.uni-hannover.de (8.11.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id g232aHN03943; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 03:36:18 +0100 From: Reinhard Kotucha MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 03:40:15 +0100 To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Cc: Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 7.00 under Emacs 20.7.2 >>>>> "Berthold" == Berthold K P Horn writes: >>> Use of TFM, and not producing resolution-independent output >>> are amongst the misfeatures of DVIPS. >> >> If you want to support bitmap fonts, you cannot produce >> resolution-independent output. > By definition, if you include bitmapped fonts then the output is > not resolution-independent. One of many good reasons not to use > legacy MetaFont PK bitmapped fonts. But dvips had been written at a time where no Computer Modern outline fonts had been freely available. Thus it was obvious to support them. And even today there are many typefaces that are only available as metafont sources, for instance those from Yannis Haralambous. A driver that only supports outlines isn't very helpful. > But DVIPS in addition forces adjustment to a grid, which makes > no sense, in particular when using scalable outline fonts. For fonts created by metafont it is necessary to force the fonts to a grid. That is because metafont has its own way of hinting fonts. Applying hints in Type1 fonts is left to the PostScript interpreter, that's easy. You always complain about things your TeX system is not able to do at all. And one misfeature of your TeX system, amongst others, is that it's not free. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-751355 Berggartenstr. 9 D-30419 Hannover mailto:reinhard@kammer.uni-hannover.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 2 23:35:25 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21963 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2002 23:35:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-011casfrmp174.dialsprint.net ([158.252.242.176] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hPaJ-0000jk-00; Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:35:15 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302222656.02702af8@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 22:34:28 -0800 To: Reinhard Kotucha From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: In-Reply-To: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_24660660==_.ALT" --=====================_24660660==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi: At 03:40 3/3/2002 +0100, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > > By definition, if you include bitmapped fonts then the output is > > not resolution-independent. One of many good reasons not to use > > legacy MetaFont PK bitmapped fonts. > >But dvips had been written at a time where no Computer Modern outline >fonts had been freely available. Thus it was obvious to support them. The point here is that you can do better if you write a driver from the ground up for scalable outline fonts, rather than retrofit it on top of bitmapped design. >And even today there are many typefaces that are only available as >metafont sources, for instance those from Yannis Haralambous. >A driver that only supports outlines isn't very helpful. Or rather fonts that are not scalable outlines are no longer very useful (DVIPSONE *can* include bitmapped fonts also, but it defeats the purpose, so it is not recommended). > > But DVIPS in addition forces adjustment to a grid, which makes > > no sense, in particular when using scalable outline fonts. > >For fonts created by metafont it is necessary to force the fonts to a >grid. That is because metafont has its own way of hinting fonts. The issue is that DVIPS forces scalable outlines to a fixed grid. This means it forces the issue of grid in advance, making the output look worse on other grid resolutions. I am not sure what "hinting" in MetaFont (to extent there is such a thing) has to do with it. >Applying hints in Type1 fonts is left to the PostScript interpreter, >that's easy. The rasterizer should do all of this, not the program driving the output. That way, the same PS file can work on any PS device, not just a specific device it is designed for. Similarly, the PS interpreter should compensate for deficiencies of a rasterizer (such a producing too dark or too light output), not the font or the DVI driver. Regards, Berthold. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_24660660==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi:

At 03:40 3/3/2002 +0100, Reinhard Kotucha wrote:

    > By definition, if you include bitmapped fonts then the output is
    > not resolution-independent.  One of many good reasons not to use
    > legacy MetaFont PK bitmapped fonts.

But dvips had been written at a time where no Computer Modern outline
fonts had been freely available.  Thus it was obvious to support them.

The point here is that you can do better if you write a driver from
the ground up for scalable outline fonts, rather than retrofit it on
top of bitmapped design.

And even today there are many typefaces that are only available as
metafont sources, for instance those from Yannis Haralambous.
A driver that only supports outlines isn't very helpful.

Or rather fonts that are not scalable outlines are no longer very
useful (DVIPSONE *can* include bitmapped fonts also, but it
defeats the  purpose, so it is not recommended).

    > But DVIPS in addition forces adjustment to a grid, which makes
    > no sense, in particular when using scalable outline fonts.

For fonts created by metafont it is necessary to force the fonts to a
grid.  That is because metafont has its own way of hinting fonts.

The issue is that DVIPS forces scalable outlines to a fixed grid.
This means it forces the issue of grid in advance, making the
output look worse on other grid resolutions.

I am not sure what "hinting" in MetaFont (to extent there is such
a thing) has to do with it.

Applying hints in Type1 fonts is left to the PostScript interpreter,
that's easy.

The rasterizer should do all of this, not the program driving the output.
That way, the same PS file can work on any PS device, not just a
specific device it is designed for. Similarly, the PS interpreter should
compensate for deficiencies of a rasterizer (such a producing too dark
or too light output), not the font or the DVI driver.

Regards, Berthold.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_24660660==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 04:04:37 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ermis.ascsa.edu.gr (ermis.ascsa.edu.gr [194.219.92.204]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23998 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 04:04:34 -0700 (MST) Received: from computer-b1 (COMPUTER_B1 [10.0.0.204]) by ermis.ascsa.edu.gr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 1NMDJL87; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:04:41 +0200 Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020303110421.006c0598@10.0.0.4> X-Sender: pmackay@10.0.0.4 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:04:21 +0200 To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" From: "Pierre A. MacKay" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: >

And even today there >are many typefaces that are only available as
>metafont sources, for instance those from Yannis Haralambous.
>A driver that only supports outlines isn't very >helpful.

Moreover, not even Unicode at its most megalomaniac is going to include all the glyphs that may be needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and manuscript editors. While font outlines can be generated with Metapost (if you are very careful about path directions) Metafont is still a superior way of generating a special repertory of glyphs with consistent features. I know there are various not-too-expensive "Fontmungers" out there which manipulate glyphs on the screen, but my experience of their output is that consistent features are nearly always absent, and that leading side bearings and set-widths are all over the map. Maybe that is just carelessness, but it has always seemed to me that it is inherent in WYSIWYG "design". (And, by the way, Berthold, why did you, of all people, include an HTML copy of your message?) Pierre pmackay@ascsa.edu.gr Pierre A. MacKay American School of Classical Studies at Athens Odos Souidias 54 Athens GR-106-76 From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 04:26:54 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24142 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 04:26:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from spqr-dell ([213.107.68.150]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020303112652.ZPSI7000.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@spqr-dell>; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:26:52 +0000 Received: from rahtz by spqr-dell with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16hU7D-0001eJ-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:25:19 +0000 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:25:19 +0000 From: Sebastian Rahtz To: "Pierre A. MacKay" Cc: "Berthold K.P. Horn" , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Message-ID: <20020303112519.GC32202@spqr-dell> References: <2.2.32.20020303110421.006c0598@10.0.0.4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20020303110421.006c0598@10.0.0.4> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: Sebastian Rahtz On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 01:04:21PM +0200, Pierre A. MacKay wrote: > > Moreover, not even Unicode at its most megalomaniac is going to include all > the glyphs that may be needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and manuscript > editors. Unicode and Metafont/Type1 are hardly competitors. Yes, Unicode can and does provide all the characters you need, because you can always store your special cases in the private zone. How you *render* them, or indeed any of Unicode, is another matter, and you can use whatever font technology you like. > While font outlines can be generated with Metapost (if you are > very careful about path directions) Metafont is still a superior way of > generating a special repertory of glyphs with consistent features. superior to what, though? > (And, by the way, Berthold, why did you, of all people, include an > HTML copy of your message?) unregenerate membership of the evil empire.... -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 04:54:55 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24325 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 04:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-111-243.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.111.243]) by protactinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hUZp-0002tm-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:54:53 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302124823.025e02e0@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:51:40 +0000 To: From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: Plethora of encodings, does it matter? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id EAA24328 At 8:57 PM +0000 2/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > > > Pursuant to the discussion of double encoding of glyphs, > I don't think having many encodings available is per se a > bad thing, since it mostly just means one extra xxxenc.def > file per encoding. > > The only nasty aspect is that some style files make a habit of > assuming there is only T1 and OT1, and have loads of > conditional code doing one thing or another depending > on which of those two it is, and, worse yet, making the > default be OT1. No, best of all - because the default encoding in LaTeX *is* OT1, whether you like it or not. >  An example would be "ngerman.sty" > which, as it stands - without small modifications - fails > when confronted with another encoding, such as LY1 or LM1. > > Is there a fundamental reason why style files can't be > more independent of encoding issues? Yes: it takes more work. I write packages for my own convenience. Those that I release to the outside world are tarted up to work in more cases than I need to use myself. But I can't ensure that they'll all work everywhere. What I do is try to ensure that they'll work with the common LaTeX setups which most people mostly use - so I see no need to provide support for the rarely-used LY1 encoding. LaTeX can use arbitrary output encodings quite happily, and there's no way to predict what encoding might be in use at any given time. The only rational approach to this is to support the common encodings where encoding matters, and take the line that if someone wants to use the package or class with a different encoding, they can do the extra work themselves. There's also the `If you don't support me, why the hell should I support you?' line of reasoning - LY1 encoding is (basically) Y&Y's baby, and what has Y&Y ever done for *me*? If you want packages that'll work with your firm's encoding, why not write them or modify them yourself? Or, if you've not got the time, Y&Y could pay for class and package file authors to support its way of doing things. [snip] Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 04:54:55 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24324 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 04:54:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-111-243.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.111.243]) by protactinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hUZo-0002tm-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:54:52 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302222656.02702af8@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:30:51 +0000 To: From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips At 6:34 AM +0000 3/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: [snip] > The issue is that DVIPS forces scalable outlines to a fixed grid. > This means it forces the issue of grid in advance, making the > output look worse on other grid resolutions. Yes, but the idea is that it improves output on the real output device you're aiming your PS file at. [snip] I don't know why you keep banging on about this. Dvips uses a perfectly sensible approach for the real world. > The rasterizer should do all of this, not the program driving the output. Maybe so, but how many PS interpreters do actually do that? None, at a guess. > That way, the same PS file can work on any PS device, not just a > specific device it is designed for. Well, since we don't live in a world which matches your requirements... > Similarly, the PS interpreter should > compensate for deficiencies of a rasterizer Er? PS interpreters *are* rasterizers, aren't they? > (such a producing too dark > or too light output), not the font or the DVI driver. And how is a bit of software supposed to be able to make that sort of judgement? Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 05:34:14 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA24585 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 05:34:13 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 32054 invoked by uid 101); 3 Mar 2002 12:34:11 -0000 Received: from pd902b8b9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (217.2.184.185) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 3 Mar 2002 12:34:11 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:34:10 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:25:19 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 01:04:21PM +0200, Pierre A. MacKay wrote: >> >> Moreover, not even Unicode at its most megalomaniac is going to include all >> the glyphs that may be needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and manuscript >> editors. > >Unicode and Metafont/Type1 are hardly competitors. ACK, but I understand Pierre's posting in a different way: You can never expect any given commercial font to provide all the glyphs that are needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and manuscript editors, even if the font claims have a "Unicode" character set. METAFONT is still the superior tool to create the needed fonts/glyphs; unfortunately, it does not create Type1 fonts... -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 05:59:30 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24692 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 05:59:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from spqr-dell ([213.107.68.150]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020303125912.DPZI8848.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@spqr-dell>; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:59:12 +0000 Received: from rahtz by spqr-dell with local (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16hVYY-00023L-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:57:38 +0000 Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:57:38 +0000 From: Sebastian Rahtz To: Rowland McDonnell Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Plethora of encodings, does it matter? Message-ID: <20020303125738.GA7858@spqr-dell> References: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: Sebastian Rahtz On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 11:51:40AM +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > > There's also the `If you don't support me, why the hell should I support > you?' line of reasoning - LY1 encoding is (basically) Y&Y's baby, and what > has Y&Y ever done for *me*? > > If you want packages that'll work with your firm's encoding, why not write > them or modify them yourself? Or, if you've not got the time, Y&Y could > pay for class and package file authors to support its way of doing things. um, lets be fair. Y&Y has in the past been very supportive of LaTeX efforts, and has very open with its developments. They did include pay people to develop packages for their fonts, and deserve plenty of credit. note also that Berthold does not work for Y&Y any more, I think? -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 08:40:27 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25623 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 08:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-005casfrmp196.dialsprint.net ([158.252.212.198] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hY5l-0000xU-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:40:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303073038.026fd668@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:39:30 -0800 To: "Pierre A. MacKay" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20020303110421.006c0598@10.0.0.4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_57362342==_.ALT" --=====================_57362342==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi: At 13:04 3/3/2002 +0200, Pierre A. MacKay wrote: >Moreover, not even Unicode at its most megalomaniac is going to include all >the glyphs that may be needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and manuscript >editors. While font outlines can be generated with Metapost (if you are >very careful about path directions) Metafont is still a superior way of >generating a special repertory of glyphs with consistent features. Not sure what Unicode has to do with it, other than that MetaFont fonts use fixed hardwired encoding and thus are very limited in glyph repertoire, and completly inflexible in reencoding. Compare for example "EC" (European Computer Modern) and "EM" (European Modern). The former can only be used with its hard-wired T1 encoding, the latter can be used with any encoding you like including T1, OT1, TS1, 8r, LY1, LM1 etc. This also means the font can be easily used with something other than TeX, and for example, transfer of typeset material to say PowerPoint or other application is possible. >I know there are various not-too-expensive "Fontmungers" out there which >manipulate glyphs on the screen, but my experience of their output is that >consistent features are nearly always absent, and that leading side bearings >and set-widths are all over the map. Maybe that is just carelessness, but >it has always seemed to me that it is inherent in WYSIWYG "design". It is true that there are many poorly made fonts out there. But you can make poor fonts with any tool, not just Fontographer. Foundries use their own proprietrary tools. But if you want to go commercially available, then FontLab is excellent. You can make perfectly consistent fonts using something like that. You have complete control over coordinates, and can reuse common pieces. And of course Fontlab has some minimal hinting capability (just don't use "auto hint"). >(And, by the way, Berthold, why did you, of all people, include an >HTML copy of your message?) Eudora does this as a matter of course, since most mail readers handle HTML and it allows additional expressiveness. For the convenience of legacy mail readers, I include also plain text version. Actually, I am not even aware of any of this until someone mentions it. Regards, Berthold. >Pierre > >pmackay@ascsa.edu.gr Pierre A. MacKay >American School of Classical Studies at Athens >Odos Souidias 54 Athens GR-106-76 -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_57362342==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi:

At 13:04 3/3/2002 +0200, Pierre A. MacKay wrote:

Moreover, not even Unicode at its most megalomaniac is going to include all
the glyphs that may be needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and manuscript
editors.  While font outlines can be generated with Metapost (if you are
very careful about path directions) Metafont is still a superior way of
generating a special repertory of glyphs with consistent features. 

Not sure what Unicode has to do with it, other than that MetaFont
fonts use fixed hardwired encoding and thus are very limited in
glyph repertoire, and completly inflexible in reencoding.
Compare for example "EC" (European Computer Modern) and
"EM" (European Modern).  The former can only be used with its
hard-wired T1 encoding, the latter can be used with any encoding
you like including T1, OT1, TS1, 8r, LY1, LM1 etc. 

This also means the font can be easily used with something other
than TeX, and for example, transfer of typeset material to say
PowerPoint or other application is possible.

I know there are various not-too-expensive "Fontmungers" out there which
manipulate glyphs on the screen, but my experience of their output is that
consistent features are nearly always absent, and that leading side bearings
and set-widths are all over the map.  Maybe that is just carelessness, but
it has always seemed to me that it is inherent in WYSIWYG "design".

It is true that there are many poorly made fonts out there. 
But you can make poor fonts with any tool, not just Fontographer.
Foundries use their own proprietrary tools. But if you want to
go commercially available, then FontLab is excellent. You can
make perfectly consistent fonts using something like that.
You have complete control over coordinates, and can reuse
common pieces. And of course Fontlab has some minimal
hinting capability (just don't use "auto hint").

(And, by the way, Berthold, why did you, of all people, include an
HTML copy of your message?)

Eudora does this as a matter of course, since most mail readers
handle HTML and it allows additional expressiveness. For the
convenience of legacy mail readers, I include also plain text version.
Actually, I am not even aware of any of this until someone mentions it.

Regards, Berthold.

Pierre

pmackay@ascsa.edu.gr            Pierre A. MacKay
American School of Classical Studies at Athens
Odos Souidias 54                Athens GR-106-76

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_57362342==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 08:44:19 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25666 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 08:44:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-005casfrmp196.dialsprint.net ([158.252.212.198] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hY9U-0002fo-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:43:57 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303074006.026f9130@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:43:21 -0800 To: Sebastian Rahtz , "Pierre A. MacKay" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <20020303112519.GC32202@spqr-dell> References: <2.2.32.20020303110421.006c0598@10.0.0.4> <2.2.32.20020303110421.006c0598@10.0.0.4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_57593324==_.ALT" --=====================_57593324==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:25 3/3/2002 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > (And, by the way, Berthold, why did you, of all people, include an > > HTML copy of your message?) >unregenerate membership of the evil empire.... Well, can't blame Bill Gates for this one, since I don't use any MS mail software (they are the obvious target for virus hackers). Most mail readers such as Eudora these days seem to provide for HTML for "style". (independent of platform). As an option, you can ask that a plain text copy also be included. This is the *only* mailing list where anyone even comments on this... Regards, Berthold. >-- >Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager >13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_57593324==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 11:25 3/3/2002 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

> (And, by the way, Berthold, why did you, of all people, include an
> HTML copy of your message?)

unregenerate membership of the evil empire....

Well, can't blame Bill Gates for this one, since I don't use
any MS mail software (they are the obvious target for
virus hackers).  Most mail readers such as Eudora
these days seem to provide for HTML for "style".
(independent of platform). As an option, you can ask
that a plain text copy also be included.

This is the *only* mailing list where anyone even
comments on this...

Regards, Berthold.

--
Sebastian Rahtz      OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_57593324==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 08:56:31 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25761 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 08:56:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-005casfrmp196.dialsprint.net ([158.252.212.198] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hYLT-00065x-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:56:20 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303074355.026f5060@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:55:44 -0800 To: Rowland McDonnell , From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302222656.02702af8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_58336543==_.ALT" --=====================_58336543==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi: At 11:30 3/3/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > > The issue is that DVIPS forces scalable outlines to a fixed grid. > > This means it forces the issue of grid in advance, making the > > output look worse on other grid resolutions. > >Yes, but the idea is that it improves output on the real output device >you're aiming your PS file at. Don't get me going on that :-) For one thing, one of the great ideas of Adobe when they invented the page description language PS is that it is supposed to allow device independent output. Mangling the code so it works well only for a specific device goes counter to this great idea. >I don't know why you keep banging on about this. Dvips uses a perfectly >sensible approach for the real world. Not for the "new" world of scalable outline fonts it doesn't. Just for example, it uses "snap to" code in PS, which makes a mess e.g. when a PS file is distilled since it "snaps to" the grid of Distiller, not the final output device. > > The rasterizer should do all of this, not the program driving the output. > >Maybe so, but how many PS interpreters do actually do that? None, at a guess. All proper PS rasterizers interpret the hints in a font (OK, some do not do a good job, but then I would not call these "proper" :-). > > That way, the same PS file can work on any PS device, not just a > > specific device it is designed for. > >Well, since we don't live in a world which matches your requirements... > > > Similarly, the PS interpreter should compensate for deficiencies of a > rasterizer > >Er? PS interpreters *are* rasterizers, aren't they? Yes, you are right, I meant"output device" > > (such a producing too dark or too light output), not the font or the > DVI driver. > >And how is a bit of software supposed to be able to make that sort of >judgement? It's not the software that does it, but the designer of the machine. After building the machine you make measurements to see what the response of the device is. e.g. if it is low res it may print too dark / letters too fat, and then adjust the rasterizer to "erode away" more of the edge of a region when put down. Adjusting the fonts instead in software to a particular output device again means the code generated is not device independent. (Of course with CM we have another issue, which is that CM is by design thinner and spindlier than most people like, so they prefer to "fatten it up" so it looks like it was printed on an ancient lo res printer that made all letters fatter than they really are). regards, Berthold. >Rowland. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_58336543==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi:

At 11:30 3/3/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote:

> The issue is that DVIPS forces scalable outlines to a fixed grid.
> This means it forces the issue of grid in advance, making the
> output look worse on other grid resolutions.

Yes, but the idea is that it improves output on the real output device
you're aiming your PS file at.

Don't get me going on that :-)

For one thing, one of the great ideas of Adobe when they invented
the page description language PS is that it is supposed to allow
device independent output.  Mangling the code so it works well
only for a specific device goes counter to this great idea.

I don't know why you keep banging on about this.  Dvips uses a perfectly
sensible approach for the real world.

Not for the "new" world of scalable outline fonts it doesn't.

Just for example, it uses "snap to" code in PS, which makes
a mess e.g. when a PS file is distilled since it "snaps to" the
grid  of Distiller, not the final output device.

> The rasterizer should do all of this, not the program driving the output.

Maybe so, but how many PS interpreters do actually do that?  None, at a guess.

All proper PS rasterizers interpret the hints in a font (OK, some do
not do a good job, but then I would not call these "proper" :-).

> That way, the same PS file can work on any PS device, not just a
> specific device it is designed for.

Well, since we don't live in a world which matches your requirements...

> Similarly, the PS interpreter should compensate for deficiencies of a rasterizer

Er?  PS interpreters *are* rasterizers, aren't they?

Yes, you are right, I meant"output device"

> (such a producing too dark or too light output), not the font or the DVI driver.

And how is a bit of software supposed to be able to make that sort of
judgement?

It's not the software that does it, but the designer of the machine.
After building the machine you make measurements to see what
the response of the device is. e.g. if it is low res it may print
too dark / letters too fat, and then adjust the rasterizer to "erode
away" more of the edge of a region when put down.

Adjusting the fonts instead in software  to a particular output device
again  means the code generated is not device independent.

(Of course with CM we have another issue, which is that CM
is by design thinner and spindlier than most people like, so they
prefer to "fatten it up" so it looks like it was printed on an ancient
lo res printer that made all letters fatter than they really are).

regards, Berthold.

Rowland.

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_58336543==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 09:00:28 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25803 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:00:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-005casfrmp196.dialsprint.net ([158.252.212.198] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hYPA-0001kH-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:00:08 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303075656.0278b9d0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:59:33 -0800 To: Sebastian Rahtz , Rowland McDonnell From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: Plethora of encodings, does it matter? Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <20020303125738.GA7858@spqr-dell> References: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_58565382==_.ALT" --=====================_58565382==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:57 3/3/2002 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 11:51:40AM +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > > > There's also the `If you don't support me, why the hell should I support > > you?' line of reasoning - LY1 encoding is (basically) Y&Y's baby, and what > > has Y&Y ever done for *me*? The question wasn't why you should support some other encoding, but why style file so often use code that requires that the encoding be taken into account at all. It would be best if all that was left to the xxxenc.def file and the style not make any references to the encoding at all. > > If you want packages that'll work with your firm's encoding, why not write > > them or modify them yourself? Or, if you've not got the time, Y&Y could > > pay for class and package file authors to support its way of doing things. > >um, lets be fair. Y&Y has in the past been very supportive of >LaTeX efforts, and has very open with its developments. They did >include pay people to develop packages for their fonts, and deserve >plenty of credit. > >note also that Berthold does not work for Y&Y any more, I think? That is correct. regards, Berthold. >-- >Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager >13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_58565382==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 12:57 3/3/2002 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 11:51:40AM +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote:

> There's also the `If you don't support me, why the hell should I support
> you?' line of reasoning - LY1 encoding is (basically) Y&Y's baby, and what
> has Y&Y ever done for *me*?

The question wasn't why you should support some other encoding,
but why style file so often use code that requires that the encoding
be taken into account at all.  It would be best if all that was left to the
xxxenc.def file and the style not make any references to the
encoding at all.
 
> If you want packages that'll work with your firm's encoding, why not write
> them or modify them yourself?  Or, if you've not got the time, Y&Y could
> pay for class and package file authors to support its way of doing things.

um, lets be fair. Y&Y has in the past been very supportive of
LaTeX efforts, and has very open with its developments. They did
include pay people to develop packages for their fonts, and deserve
plenty of credit.

note also that Berthold does not work for Y&Y any more, I think?

That is correct.

regards, Berthold.

--
Sebastian Rahtz      OUCS Information Manager
13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_58565382==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 09:03:57 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25830 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:03:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-005casfrmp196.dialsprint.net ([158.252.212.198] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hYSZ-0004xX-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:03:39 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:03:04 -0800 To: "Walter Schmidt" , "tex-fonts" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_58776255==_.ALT" --=====================_58776255==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 13:34 3/3/2002 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:25:19 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > >On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 01:04:21PM +0200, Pierre A. MacKay wrote: > >> > >> Moreover, not even Unicode at its most megalomaniac is going to > include all > >> the glyphs that may be needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and > manuscript > >> editors. > > > >Unicode and Metafont/Type1 are hardly competitors. > >ACK, but I understand Pierre's posting in a different way: > >You can never expect any given commercial font to provide all >the glyphs that are needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and >manuscript editors, even if the font claims have a "Unicode" >character set. METAFONT is still the superior tool to create >the needed fonts/glyphs; unfortunately, it does not create >Type1 fonts... I see the issue of character sets as independent of font technology. That is, you can make any glyph set you like using either MetaFont or Type 1. I do not see the connection, other than that a MetaFont generated font is restricted to 256 glyphs with fixed encoding. And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution bitmaps and not being useable with anything but TeX. Regards, Berthold. >-- >Walter -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_58776255==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 13:34 3/3/2002 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote:

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:25:19 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote:

>On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 01:04:21PM +0200, Pierre A. MacKay wrote:
>>
>> Moreover, not even Unicode at its most megalomaniac is going to include all
>> the glyphs that may be needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and manuscript
>> editors.
>
>Unicode and Metafont/Type1 are hardly competitors.

ACK, but I understand Pierre's posting in a different way:

You can never expect any given commercial font to provide all
the glyphs that are needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and
manuscript editors, even if the font claims have a "Unicode"
character set.  METAFONT is still the superior tool to create
the needed fonts/glyphs; unfortunately, it does not create
Type1 fonts...

I see the issue of character sets as independent of font technology.

That is, you can make any glyph set you like using either MetaFont
or Type 1. I do not see the connection, other than that a MetaFont
generated font is restricted to 256 glyphs with fixed encoding.

And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution
bitmaps and not  being useable with anything but TeX.

Regards, Berthold.

--
Walter

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_58776255==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 10:05:03 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA26322 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:05:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 3 Mar 2002 17:05:00 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:04:59 +0000 From: Timothy Murphy To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Message-ID: <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> References: <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:03:04AM -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution > bitmaps and not being useable with anything but TeX. I hesitate to enter the water when there are such eminent crocodiles in it, but I assume all fonts have to be rasterized in the end; so your argument presumably is that TeX does it too soon, before the user has decided what resolution he wants to use. Isn't this just a matter of tactics, which could be changed? Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts? It seems to me that the way in which different resolutions are dealt with in MF must be superior to the rather simple-minded approach in type1 fonts (via hints). The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more flexible) way of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding ala type1 -- basically, indirection versus a fixed array. The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more fleximble) way of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding a la type1 -- basically it is a matter of re-direction versus a fixed array. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: 086-233 6090 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 10:38:57 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26577 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:38:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-005casfrmp196.dialsprint.net ([158.252.212.198] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hZwN-0005xb-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:38:32 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303092728.0275d498@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 09:37:55 -0800 To: Timothy Murphy , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_64467419==_.ALT" --=====================_64467419==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi: At 17:04 3/3/2002 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: >On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:03:04AM -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution > > bitmaps and not being useable with anything but TeX. > >I hesitate to enter the water when there are such eminent crocodiles in it, :-) >but I assume all fonts have to be rasterized in the end; >so your argument presumably is that TeX does it too soon, >before the user has decided what resolution he wants to use. >Isn't this just a matter of tactics, which could be changed? Meaning one should use scalable outline fonts with TeX also :-). >Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts >can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts? Because the drawing model is different. Instead of conceptually finding the envelope of one shape when it is dragged along another shape, scalable outline fonts, as the name suggests, encode the envelope directly (yes, I know you can use MetaFont to encode outlines directly also, but this is not how it is most commonly used or what its strength is). >It seems to me that the way in which different resolutions are dealt with >in MF >must be superior to the rather simple-minded approach in type1 fonts (via >hints). On the contrary, the hinting mechanism in Type 1 fonts as implemented in ATM (not GhostScript) is simply superb and relatively easy to use. Complex grid adjustments in MF are possible, but difficult to program. >The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more flexible) way >of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding ala type1 -- >basically, indirection versus a fixed array. No. VF can only reorganize a character layout , that is it deals only with character code numbers. It maps numbers (0--256) to numbers (0--256). fIt cannot e.g. make unencoded characters accessible. For that a separate mechanism is needed (e.g. DVIPS use of entries in psfonts.map). And once you have that separate mechanism for reencoding fonts there is little need for the rest (except to combine fonts say). But how did we get onto VF in this discussion? Is it just that we want to combine all of the topics on which I have strong opinions :-)? >The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more fleximble) >way of dealing with large fonts >than internal recoding a la type1 -- >basically it is a matter of re-direction versus a fixed array. Another brilliant idea of Adobe was the encoding vector which maps from character codes to glyph names. This is still widely misunderstood, but is obviously more powerful than mapping from numbers to numbers as in VF. TAn important aspect of scalable outline fonts such as Type 1 and TrueType is that (suitable software) can freely reencode them, thus rearranging character layout *and* making unencoded characters accessible. regards, Berthold. >-- >Timothy Murphy >e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie >tel: 086-233 6090 >s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_64467419==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi:

At 17:04 3/3/2002 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:03:04AM -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote:
> And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution
> bitmaps and not  being useable with anything but TeX.

I hesitate to enter the water when there are such eminent crocodiles in it,

:-)

but I assume all fonts have to be rasterized in the end;
so your argument presumably is that TeX does it too soon,
before the user has decided what resolution he wants to use.
Isn't this just a matter of tactics, which could be changed?

Meaning one should use scalable outline fonts with TeX also :-).

Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts
can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts?

Because the drawing model is different. Instead of
conceptually finding the envelope of one shape when
it is dragged along another shape, scalable outline
fonts, as the name suggests, encode the envelope directly
(yes, I know you can use MetaFont to encode outlines directly
also, but this is not how it is most commonly used or what
its strength is).

It seems to me that the way in which different resolutions are dealt with in MF
must be superior to the rather simple-minded approach in type1 fonts (via hints).

On the contrary, the hinting mechanism in Type 1 fonts as implemented
in ATM (not GhostScript) is simply superb and relatively easy to use.
Complex grid adjustments in MF are possible, but difficult to program.

The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more flexible) way
of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding ala type1 --
basically, indirection versus a fixed array.

No. VF can only reorganize a character layout , that is it deals only
with character code numbers. It maps numbers (0--256) to numbers
(0--256).  fIt cannot e.g. make unencoded characters
accessible. For that a separate mechanism is needed
(e.g. DVIPS use of entries in psfonts.map).
And once you have that separate mechanism for reencoding fonts
there is little need for the rest (except to combine fonts say).

But how did we get onto VF in this discussion?  Is it just that we
want to combine all of the topics on which I have strong opinions :-)?

The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more fleximble) way of dealing with large fonts
than internal recoding a la type1 --
basically it is a matter of re-direction versus a fixed array.

Another brilliant idea of Adobe was the encoding vector which
maps from character codes to glyph names. This is still widely
misunderstood, but is obviously more powerful than mapping from
numbers to numbers as in VF.  TAn important aspect of scalable outline
fonts such as Type 1 and TrueType is that (suitable software)
can freely reencode them, thus rearranging character layout *and*
making unencoded characters accessible.

regards, Berthold.

--
Timothy Murphy 
e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie
tel: 086-233 6090
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_64467419==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 10:52:27 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr (postfix1-2.free.fr [213.228.0.130]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26675 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 10:52:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from varese (grenoble-1-a7-75-112.dial.proxad.net [62.147.75.112]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3650ABAAF; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:02 +0100 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: Thierry Bouche Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <453145583.20020303185202@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Rowland McDonnell Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re[2]: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: References: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le dimanche 3 mars 2002, à 12:30:51, Rowland McDonnell écrivit : RM> I don't know why you keep banging on about this. Dvips uses a perfectly RM> sensible approach for the real world. Mmh, it's perfectly sensible as a print driver, not as a file generator. I understand that AMS be happy with dvips, because they know to which machine the final file will be printed with. But the typical TeX user will produce & distribute PS or PDF files that won't print good anywhere, usually optimized for his printer, not for the one of the person that will try to print it... However, I think Berthold must live in an ideal world, PS is very seldom device independant: most PS files around are generated with one PPD and meant for one printer, they even often contain PJL code... The most independant files I know are PS exported from (vector) PDF. Thierry From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 11:03:39 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr (postfix1-2.free.fr [213.228.0.130]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26869 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:03:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from varese (grenoble-1-a7-75-112.dial.proxad.net [62.147.75.112]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 788CFAB26F; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:03:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:03:37 +0100 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: Thierry Bouche Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1673840452.20020303190337@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Timothy Murphy Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re[2]: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> References: <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le dimanche 3 mars 2002, à 18:04:59, Timothy Murphy écrivit : TM> I hesitate to enter the water when there are such eminent crocodiles in it, TM> but I assume all fonts have to be rasterized in the end; OK so far... TM> so your argument presumably is that TeX does it too soon, TM> before the user has decided what resolution he wants to use. Th at is not quite the point. The point is that when you send files, you have absolutely no control on what will be used to treat them afterwards. SO you _do not want_ any resolution set until the file meets an utimate rasterizer. TM> Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts TM> can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts? yes, MF is a langage (I don't know whether it's Turing complete, but it's rather powerful), type1 is a format. More or less the same diference as PDF vs PS. TM> It seems to me that the way in which different resolutions are dealt with in MF TM> must be superior to the rather simple-minded approach in type1 fonts (via hints). this is the price you have to pay for efficiency. TM> The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more flexible) way TM> of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding ala type1 -- TM> basically, indirection versus a fixed array. type 1 allows composite glyphs (seac), but this has been deprecated. I'm told that CID fonts may act as a huge glyph container generating many font subsets used separately in one doc; opentype fonts are download to PS or PDF as CID, afaik. But, yes, regarding the funny glyphs demanded by epigraphists, philologists, etc., many of them can be made from a given font by compopsites, which can be made without bitmaps thanks to VFs. Thierry From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 11:31:50 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27429 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:31:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-003casfrmp219.dialsprint.net ([158.252.210.221] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16halh-0006Jz-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:31:34 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303102611.027f30a8@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:30:57 -0800 To: Thierry Bouche , Rowland McDonnell From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re[2]: tfm used by dvips Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <453145583.20020303185202@ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_67649324==_.ALT" --=====================_67649324==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 18:52 3/3/2002 +0100, Thierry Bouche wrote: >But the typical TeX user will produce & distribute PS or PDF files that >won't print good anywhere, usually optimized for his printer, not for >the one of the person that will try to print it... > >However, I think Berthold must live in an ideal world, PS is very seldom >device independant: most PS files around are generated with one PPD and >meant for one printer, they even often contain PJL code... The most >independant files I know are PS exported from (vector) PDF. Well, much to my distress in recent years this trend to making non-generic PS has been advocated in some quarters, and even somewhat supported by Adobe, at least to the extent of the PPD concept. But the ideal to strive for is still to produce device independent PS. So perhaps there are degrees of compliance to this ideal. Certainly code that crudely forces points onto a discrete grid that has nothing to do with the final output device is bad, as are bitmapped fonts. And there is no excuse for the HP bad idea of preliminary PJL to switch the printer into PS mode: SURELY the stupid HP PS/PCL printer can tell from the first two characters of a data stream that it is PS and not PCL! regards, Berthold. > Thierry -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_67649324==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 18:52 3/3/2002 +0100, Thierry Bouche wrote:

But the typical TeX user will produce & distribute PS or PDF files that
won't print good anywhere, usually optimized for his printer, not for
the one of the person that will try to print it...

However, I think Berthold must live in an ideal world, PS is very seldom
device independant: most PS files around are generated with one PPD and
meant for one printer, they even often contain PJL code... The most
independant files I know are PS exported from (vector) PDF.

Well, much to my distress in recent years this trend to making
non-generic PS has been advocated in some quarters, and even
somewhat supported by Adobe, at least to the extent of the PPD
concept.  But the ideal to strive for is still to produce device
independent PS.  So perhaps there are degrees of compliance
to this ideal. Certainly code that crudely forces points onto a
discrete grid that has nothing to do  with the final output device
is bad, as are bitmapped fonts.

And there is no excuse for the HP bad idea of preliminary PJL to
switch the printer into PS mode: SURELY the stupid HP PS/PCL
printer can tell from the first two characters of a data stream that
it is PS and not PCL!

regards, Berthold.

 Thierry                        

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_67649324==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 16:27:26 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29789 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:27:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.137.13] (mariehemsv093.sn.umu.se [130.239.137.13]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id AAA18599; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:19:28 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303092728.0275d498@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:27:17 +0100 To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: Timothy Murphy , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id QAA29791 At 18.37 +0100 2002-03-03, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > Hi: > > At 17:04 3/3/2002 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > >> Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts >> can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts? > > > Because the drawing model is different. Instead of > conceptually finding the envelope of one shape when > it is dragged along another shape, scalable outline > fonts, as the name suggests, encode the envelope directly > (yes, I know you can use MetaFont to encode outlines directly > also, but this is not how it is most commonly used or what > its strength is). But that has no relevance for the speed of rasterization. In fact it's probably the other way round: the paths involved in drawing (stroking) a letter are usually much simpler than the actual outline, and drawing on a raster is computationally much simpler than filling an outline. There is no principal advantage of outlines to strokes, but there is a large practical difference in that PS and PDF have lots of support the former and almost none for the latter. Does that mean the error is more in MetaFont than in PostScript? >> It seems to me that the way in which different resolutions are dealt >> with in MF must be superior to the rather simple-minded approach in >> type1 fonts (via hints). > > On the contrary, the hinting mechanism in Type 1 fonts as implemented > in ATM (not GhostScript) is simply superb and relatively easy to use. > Complex grid adjustments in MF are possible, but difficult to program. That is the difference between a high-level mechanism (hints) and a low-level mechanism (explicit calculations of discrete coordinates). The basic model in Type 1 fonts is sound, but the way it is encoded is a _mess_. The Type 2 encoding makes sense, though. General question: Has anyone ever tried to implement something like Type 1 stem hints in MetaFont? Presumably that would be as a MF macro package for adjusting point coordinates. I'm not particularly advocating that one should use MF bimaps instead of scalable outlines, but it would be interesting to hear to what extent such possibilities have at all been examined, and if so how good the results were. >> The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more flexible) >> way of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding ala type1 -- >> basically, indirection versus a fixed array. > > No. VF can only reorganize a character layout , that is it deals only > with character code numbers. It maps numbers (0--256) to numbers > (0--256). fIt cannot e.g. make unencoded characters > accessible. For that a separate mechanism is needed > (e.g. DVIPS use of entries in psfonts.map). The 256 character limit (codes 0--255, not 256) is in the TFM format rather than in VF. The character space that can be accessed through DVI commands, and thus that a VF can map into, is 32 bits rather than 8. The (re)encoding process is due mainly to how fonts work in PS: there has to be an encoding vector in the font dictionary, but that can be replaced without any effect on the glyphs. That there can be such a thing as an "unencoded character" is more an artifact of PS than a restriction in TeX and related software. Furthermore "entries in psfonts.map" have very little to do with the reencoding; it's all a matter of putting in the PS output a few commands that substitute one encoding vector with another. >> The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more fleximble) >> way of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding a la type1 -- >> basically it is a matter of re-direction versus a fixed array. > > Another brilliant idea of Adobe was the encoding vector which > maps from character codes to glyph names. This is still widely > misunderstood, Appearently by you too, as you seem to think it is an idea different from the one that you discussed above. ;-) > but is obviously more powerful than mapping from > numbers to numbers as in VF. Wrong! There is always more power in mappings from a set into itself, since such mappings can be composed, than there is in mappings from one set to another. Identifying glyphs by name instead of a serial number is a good idea though. > TAn important aspect of scalable outline > fonts such as Type 1 and TrueType is that (suitable software) > can freely reencode them, thus rearranging character layout *and* > making unencoded characters accessible. None of which has anything to do with the fonts are defined by outlines. Precisely the same thing can be done with Type 3 fonts---even with Type 3 fonts defined by bitmaps. At 16.43 +0100 2002-03-03, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > Most mail readers such as Eudora > these days seem to provide for HTML for "style". > (independent of platform). As an option, you can ask > that a plain text copy also be included. > > This is the *only* mailing list where anyone even > comments on this... Well, the fact remains that the rules for the list clearly state that one should not send HTML-encoded mail to it. This has been pointed out to you on numerous occations, yet you keep ignoring it, thus displaying a netiquette that is very poor indeed. Whining that "all the other lists accept it" is childish. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 17:10:28 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00148 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:10:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-1-179-105.btinternet.com ([213.1.179.105] helo=[213.122.32.210]) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hg3d-0004h3-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:10:25 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303075656.0278b9d0@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <20020303125738.GA7858@spqr-dell> <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:19:22 +0000 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: Plethora of encodings, does it matter? Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id RAA00151 > At 12:57 3/3/2002 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > > >On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 11:51:40AM +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > > > There's also the `If you don't support me, why the hell should I support > > you?' line of reasoning - LY1 encoding is (basically) Y&Y's baby, and what > > has Y&Y ever done for *me*? > > > The question wasn't why you should support some other encoding, > but why style file so often use code that requires that the encoding > be taken into account at all.  It would be best if all that was left to the > xxxenc.def file and the style not make any references to the > encoding at all. But the encoding is sometimes very relevant. You can't just assume that you'll get the glyphs you ask for when using a particular encoding because not all glyphs are available in all encodings, are they? (and there might be some cases where a glyph that's missing from *that* encoding is, by default, dragged from a fount with *this* encoding and the author of the package file might not like it done that way. What is such an author to do? Write yet another enc.def file and all that jazz? That's not always the appropriate thing to do) So one does occasionally have to jump through ugly hoops in order to deal with this. I can't think of where I've done this myself (I certainly have done, somewhere in the foetid mess of half-baked code that I've cobbled together over the years - you can see the stuff I've seen fit to release on CTAN. Just think what the stuff I *don't* release looks like), but that's the way it is and that's what you've got to do sometimes. Just so long as it works. I mean, I've got *lots* of code that is conditional based on the documentclass - why shouldn't there also be code conditional on fount encoding, too? It's just yet another relevant measurable variable in my book. Take, for example, a package I've got here for switching to old style numbers when using original Computer Modern Roman. It can only work with OT1 encoding (oh God I think it's on CTAN - cmolddig.sty); in that, it's quite similar to the eco package which does the same job for the EC founts - and that only works with T1 encoding, of course. Let's face it: the whole business of typesetting and typography is a mess of tweaks and pokes and fiddles and exceptions to the rule and whatnot. Yes, let's head towards as much elegance as possible, but, well, we've got the legacy of Knuth's original encoding mess to live with, like it or not, and that ain't at all elegant, is it? [snip] Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 17:10:29 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00150 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:10:28 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-1-179-105.btinternet.com ([213.1.179.105] helo=[213.122.32.210]) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hg3e-0004h3-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:10:27 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303074355.026f5060@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302222656.02702af8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:49:19 +0000 To: From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id RAA00154 > Hi: > > At 11:30 3/3/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: [snip] >>I don't know why you keep banging on about this.  Dvips uses a perfectly >> sensible approach for the real world. > > > Not for the "new" world of scalable outline fonts it doesn't. But dvips doesn't mess around with the actual founts, does it? It's mainly used as a program to generate PS to be printed on a particular printer, right? > Just for example, it uses "snap to" code in PS, which makes > a mess e.g. when a PS file is distilled since it "snaps to" the > grid  of Distiller, not the final output device. Yes, you can run in to problems - after all, dvips was written to do a particular job: to prepare dvi files for printing on particular printers. I don't see what the problem is with device dependence creeping in at that stage. *Yes* there are times when it's nice to be able to avoid it, but I'm willing to bet that 99% of all dvips output goes straight to *that* there printer - which makes me think that *if* the resolution-dependence does in fact improve output quality, then it's a very good thing in this case. >> The rasterizer should do all of this, not the program driving the output. > > Maybe so, but how many PS interpreters do actually do that?  None, at a >guess. > > > All proper PS rasterizers interpret the hints in a font (OK, some do > not do a good job, but then I would not call these "proper" :-). Yes, but what's that got to do with dvips's games? As I understand it, dvips fits the glyph positions to a grid for allegedly improved output on a particular device - and that's what PS interpreters don't do, as I understand it. [snip] >> (such a producing too dark or too light output), not the font or the DVI >>driver. > > And how is a bit of software supposed to be able to make that sort of > judgement? > > > It's not the software that does it, but the designer of the machine. > After building the machine you make measurements to see what > the response of the device is. e.g. if it is low res it may print > too dark / letters too fat, and then adjust the rasterizer to "erode > away" more of the edge of a region when put down. Righto - but what does this have to do with anything that dvips does? > Adjusting the fonts instead in software  to a particular output device > again  means the code generated is not device independent. Yes, but that's not what dvips does, is it? > (Of course with CM we have another issue, which is that CM > is by design thinner and spindlier than most people like, so they > prefer to "fatten it up" so it looks like it was printed on an ancient > lo res printer that made all letters fatter than they really are). I can't say I've ever noticed that myself. Rowland. (who has printed - in recent years (okay, just for a laugh) - CM on his 144dpi ImageWriter II dot matrix) From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 17:10:30 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00155 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-1-179-105.btinternet.com ([213.1.179.105] helo=[213.122.32.210]) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hg3g-0004h3-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:10:28 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303073038.026fd668@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <2.2.32.20020303110421.006c0598@10.0.0.4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:51:02 +0000 To: From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id RAA00157 At 3:39 PM +0000 3/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > Hi: > > At 13:04 3/3/2002 +0200, Pierre A. MacKay wrote: > > > >Moreover, not even Unicode at its most megalomaniac is going to include all > the glyphs that may be needed by epigraphists, papyrologists and manuscript > editors.  While font outlines can be generated with Metapost (if you are > very careful about path directions) Metafont is still a superior way of > generating a special repertory of glyphs with consistent features.  > > > Not sure what Unicode has to do with it, other than that MetaFont > fonts use fixed hardwired encoding and thus are very limited in > glyph repertoire, How so? > and completly inflexible in reencoding. > Compare for example "EC" (European Computer Modern) and > "EM" (European Modern).  The former can only be used with its > hard-wired T1 encoding, Not at all - at least, not since *almost* everyone and his dog now has a dvi driver which can understand vf files. It's now possible to use those founts in quite arbitrary encodings with virtually all modern TeX systems - for an example of this in practice, at the eco package from CTAN which I mention elsewhere. [snip] > Eudora does this as a matter of course, since most mail readers > handle HTML and it allows additional expressiveness. For the > convenience of legacy mail readers, I include also plain text version. [snip] Some of us actually prefer plain unadorned text emails - the efficiency is unrivalled, for starters, and your HTML emails do look a bit of a mess by the time I get to see them (in Eudora, as it happens). Your messages would be a lot easier to read if you stopped sending them in HTML - but if you like the idea of people receiving badly-formatted text from you, go right ahead. Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 17:10:33 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00164 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:10:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-1-179-105.btinternet.com ([213.1.179.105] helo=[213.122.32.210]) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hg3j-0004h3-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:10:31 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303092728.0275d498@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:57:06 +0000 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id RAA00165 At 5:37 PM +0000 3/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > Hi: > > At 17:04 3/3/2002 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: [snip] > The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more flexible) way > of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding ala type1 -- > basically, indirection versus a fixed array. > > > No. VF can only reorganize a character layout , that is it deals only > with character code numbers. But that's all you've got with Metafont founts. It's only when you've got founts with unencoding characters in them that you can run in to this sort of problem. > It maps numbers (0--256) to numbers > (0--256).  fIt cannot e.g. make unencoded characters > accessible. Indeed, but since all characters in Metafont founts are encoded, and since a virtual fount allows you to drag in glyphs from multiple sources to form a single new fount - well, there's no problem from that point of view and it does have advantages which you can't get by fiddling around at the dvi driver end of things. > For that a separate mechanism is needed > (e.g. DVIPS use of entries in psfonts.map). > And once you have that separate mechanism for reencoding fonts > there is little need for the rest (except to combine fonts say). A job which is distinctly very, very useful to be able to do. `Little need this mechanism if you've got another one except for the one incredibly useful thing it can do'... [snip] > Another brilliant idea of Adobe was the encoding vector which > maps from character codes to glyph names. This is still widely > misunderstood, but is obviously more powerful than mapping from > numbers to numbers as in VF. [snip] This is one of those `obvious' statements which is no such thing. The VF technique is equally obviously more powerful than using a name-number encoding vector, because virtual founts are not restricted to where they get their glyphs from - yes, you can have unencoded glyphs made available in a new encoding using encoding vectors with PS, but you can't get a glyph in *this* fount made from two glyphs each in entirely separate founts. So obviously, VF is more powerful. Obviously... Or why not be a little bit more balanced about the matter, and admit that both techniques are very useful but with slightly different applications? Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 17:10:31 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00158 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:10:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-1-179-105.btinternet.com ([213.1.179.105] helo=[213.122.32.210]) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hg3h-0004h3-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:10:29 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:41:50 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id RAA00160 At 4:03 PM +0000 3/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: [snip] > And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution > bitmaps and not  being useable with anything but TeX. [snip] What's wrong with fixed resolution bitmaps tailored to a particular printer? That's a positive advantage in my book: all the alleged advantages of Postscript Type 1 fount quality *without* the need for expensive Postscript. Certainly, Metafont does a *much* better job of rendering Computer Modern than either Acrobat Reader or ATM does (I assume that the rasteriser is the same in both cases, mind), from the point of view of my 300dpi and 600dpi inkjets (I've not done a comparison between the two on the dot matrix - even I have some limits). When I say `much better', I mean `much more like Knuth's intentions as shown in his print publications and without horrible cockups like glyph collisions on paper'. How can it be a disadvantage when it produces higher quality output? Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 17:10:32 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00161 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:10:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-1-179-105.btinternet.com ([213.1.179.105] helo=[213.122.32.210]) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hg3i-0004h3-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:10:30 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <453145583.20020303185202@ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:45:33 +0000 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re[2]: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id RAA00162 At 5:52 PM +0000 3/3/2002, Thierry Bouche wrote: >Le dimanche 3 mars 2002, à 12:30:51, Rowland McDonnell écrivit : > > >RM> I don't know why you keep banging on about this. Dvips uses a perfectly >RM> sensible approach for the real world. > >Mmh, it's perfectly sensible as a print driver, not as a file generator. That's what it's mainly used as, though, isn't it? >I understand that AMS be happy with dvips, because they know to which >machine the final file will be printed with. > >But the typical TeX user will produce & distribute PS or PDF files that >won't print good anywhere, usually optimized for his printer, not for >the one of the person that will try to print it... This can happen, but we have pdfTeX these days so there's no need (that I can think of, anyway) to go dvi->PS->pdf any more, is there? And if you want to produce a widely-readable document, pdf strikes me as a better bet these days than PS. [snip] Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 17:10:34 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00167 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:10:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-1-179-105.btinternet.com ([213.1.179.105] helo=[213.122.32.210]) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hg3k-0004h3-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:10:32 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1673840452.20020303190337@ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:03:37 +0000 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re[2]: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id RAA00168 At 6:03 PM +0000 3/3/2002, Thierry Bouche wrote: >Le dimanche 3 mars 2002, à 18:04:59, Timothy Murphy écrivit : > > >TM> I hesitate to enter the water when there are such eminent crocodiles >in it, >TM> but I assume all fonts have to be rasterized in the end; > >OK so far... > >TM> so your argument presumably is that TeX does it too soon, >TM> before the user has decided what resolution he wants to use. > >Th at is not quite the point. The point is that when you send files, you >have absolutely no control on what will be used to treat them >afterwards. SO you _do not want_ any resolution set until the file meets >an utimate rasterizer. Well, yes - which is why dvi files don't contain resolution settings (and they are in any case not suitable for information transfer because of potential differences in fount setup at each end). The only place the resolution is set is the rasteriser: in this case, Metafont. The dvi driver knows where it's sending the output, and grabs appropriately rasterised bitmaps to send it there. Plenty of printers don't have any rasterising ability at all - what's the problem with doing the rasterising before sending the data to the printer, *if* you know exactly which printer you're printing on (and I don't know about you, but every time I've used a dvi driver to print something, I've known where it's going to print)? [snip] Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 18:33:32 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01058 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-018casfrmp085.dialsprint.net ([158.252.222.87] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hhLt-0003an-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:33:21 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303170143.027d6110@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:32:42 -0800 To: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: Timothy Murphy , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303092728.0275d498@mail.ai.mit.edu> <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_92955583==_.ALT" --=====================_92955583==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi: At 00:27 3/4/2002 +0100, Lars Hellstr=F6m wrote: >At 18.37 +0100 2002-03-03, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > > At 17:04 3/3/2002 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > > > >> Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts > >> can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts? > > > > Because the drawing model is different. Instead of > > conceptually finding the envelope of one shape when > > it is dragged along another shape, scalable outline > > fonts, as the name suggests, encode the envelope directly > > (yes, I know you can use MetaFont to encode outlines directly > > also, but this is not how it is most commonly used or what > > its strength is). > >But that has no relevance for the speed of rasterization. In fact it's >probably the other way round: the paths involved in drawing (stroking) a >letter are usually much simpler than the actual outline, and drawing on a >raster is computationally much simpler than filling an outline. I don't think I made what I was saying clear enough: The model in MetaFont is conceptually to draw one shape (the pen) in positions corresponding to all points on another shape (the path). If you like you are convolving the pen shape (area) with the path (curve) (That is, you are not simply tracing the path). If you approximate this operation in the obvious way on a discrete raster, the number of operations is the order of N * M, where N is the number of pixels in the area of the pen shape and M is the number of points along the path that are needed to give adequate accuracy (Notice that many pixels are "drawn" very many times in this simple implementation). So amongst other things the amount of work grows at least with resolution *cubed*, since N grows with resolution squared and M grows linearly with resolution. A more sophisticated model is to find the envelope of the family of shapes when moved along the curve. This involves solving differential equations, and can - except in trivial cases - not be done in closed form, only numerically approximated. Amongst other things the removal of internal (useless) parts of the envelope is a very difficult problem to do reliably (something which has been discussed at length in comp.text.tex and other places). MetaFont itself uses yet another approximation which is based on using polygons for both the outline of the pen shape and the path along which it is dragged. Convex polygons can be convolved much more cheaply than arbitrary shapes, and non-convex polygons can be broken down into unions of convex polygons (this is oversimplification). >There is no principal advantage of outlines to strokes, but there is a >large practical difference in that PS and PDF have lots of support the >former and almost none for the latter. Does that mean the error is more in >MetaFont than in PostScript? For arguments sake, let us suppose there was a completely general and completely reliable way to produce outlines (in cubic spline approximation) from MetaFont code. That is, that one could make unhinted Type 1 fonts easily from MetaFont. That would remove the two main drawbacks of (i) MetaFont output being in bitmapped form, and (ii) of the slow computation based on MetaFont's drawing model. There would still be many interesting questions. One is whether any typographers would use MetaFont. Very few have. D.E. Knuth is one, Yannis Haralambous is another. But even the Euler fonts designed by Hermann Zapf could not be made using the traditional MetaFont model, despite months of work by students at Stanford. They were finally made in outline form --- the alternate method for MetaFont --- which incidentally was a good thing for people at Y&Y who converted them to Type 1 format! Generally hackers find MetaFont cute because of its way of defining what you want in an indirect way. Artists with good eye for design generally are not in this category. They like to sketch things and do not see the glyphs in terms of inequalities and numbers. > >> It seems to me that the way in which different resolutions are dealt > >> with in MF must be superior to the rather simple-minded approach in > >> type1 fonts (via hints). > > > > On the contrary, the hinting mechanism in Type 1 fonts as implemented > > in ATM (not GhostScript) is simply superb and relatively easy to use. > > Complex grid adjustments in MF are possible, but difficult to program. > >That is the difference between a high-level mechanism (hints) and a >low-level mechanism (explicit calculations of discrete coordinates). The >basic model in Type 1 fonts is sound, but the way it is encoded is a >_mess_. The Type 2 encoding makes sense, though. Note sure what this is about. Is it the code used to describe outlines you object to, or is it the encryption method, or is it the language used to describe hints? >General question: Has anyone ever tried to implement something like Type 1 >stem hints in MetaFont? Presumably that would be as a MF macro package for >adjusting point coordinates. I'm not particularly advocating that one >should use MF bimaps instead of scalable outlines, but it would be >interesting to hear to what extent such possibilities have at all been >examined, and if so how good the results were. Why on earth would anyone be interested in doing anything with MetaFont these days. You are beating a dead horse. Just byte the bullet and make scalable outline fonts. The commercial tools are not too bad these days (FontLab). Even if you followed your proposed program, you would still have bitmaps that only work at one resolution. The hinting action would be too early. > >> The virtual font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more flexible) > >> way of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding ala type1 -- > >> basically, indirection versus a fixed array. > > > > No. VF can only reorganize a character layout , that is it deals only > > with character code numbers. It maps numbers (0--256) to numbers > > (0--256). fIt cannot e.g. make unencoded characters > > accessible. For that a separate mechanism is needed > > (e.g. DVIPS use of entries in psfonts.map). > >The 256 character limit (codes 0--255, not 256) is in the TFM format rather >than in VF. The character space that can be accessed through DVI commands, >and thus that a VF can map into, is 32 bits rather than 8. The (re)encoding >process is due mainly to how fonts work in PS: there has to be an encoding >vector in the font dictionary, but that can be replaced without any effect >on the glyphs. That there can be such a thing as an "unencoded character" >is more an artifact of PS than a restriction in TeX and related software. >Furthermore "entries in psfonts.map" have very little to do with the >reencoding; it's all a matter of putting in the PS output a few commands >that substitute one encoding vector with another. You totally miss the point. VF maps *NUMBERS* to *NUMBERS* Which is fine if your model of characters is that characters *ARE* numbers (and hence if we accept the Unicode model, but then we need 16 bit numbers, or better yet the 32 bit extension of Unicode). What you really want is a mapping from *NUMBERS* to *GLYPH NAMES*. This is the brilliant idea of Adobe with the encoding vector. And this is what you really need do deal with fonts. Simply permuting where stuff shows up in the range from 0--256 is much less useful (for example, this does nothin you could not already do using suitable TeX code!), and is completely unable to make *UNENCODED* characters available. > > but is obviously more powerful than mapping from > > numbers to numbers as in VF. > >Wrong! There is always more power in mappings from a set into itself, since >such mappings can be composed, than there is in mappings from one set to >another. Identifying glyphs by name instead of a serial number is a good >idea though. Sounds like you almost got the idea there :-) > > TAn important aspect of scalable outline > > fonts such as Type 1 and TrueType is that (suitable software) > > can freely reencode them, thus rearranging character layout *and* > > making unencoded characters accessible. > >None of which has anything to do with the fonts are defined by outlines. >Precisely the same thing can be done with Type 3 fonts---even with Type 3 >fonts defined by bitmaps. Yes, you can do that with Type 3 fotns, but *not* with MetaFont produced bitmapped PK fonts. And that is what we are talking about here. PK fonts have hardwired encoding. There is no concept of glyph names. Regards, Berthold. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph = (BK) --=====================_92955583==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi:

At 00:27 3/4/2002 +0100, Lars Hellstr=F6m wrote:

At 18.37 +0100 2002-03-03, Berthol= d K.P. Horn wrote:

> At 17:04 3/3/2002 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>
>> Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts
>> can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts?
>
> Because the drawing model is different. Instead of
> conceptually finding the envelope of one shape when
> it is dragged along another shape, scalable outline
> fonts, as the name suggests, encode the envelope directly
> (yes, I know you can use MetaFont to encode outlines directly
> also, but this is not how it is most commonly used or what
> its strength is).

But that has no relevance for the speed of rasterization. In fact it's
probably the other way round: the paths involved in drawing (stroking) a
letter are usually much simpler than the actual outline, and drawing on a
raster is computationally much simpler than filling an outline.

I don't think I made what I was saying clear enough:

The model in MetaFont is conceptually to draw one shape (the pen)
in  positions corresponding to all points on another shape (the path).
If you like you are convolving the pen shape (area) with the path (curve)
(That is, you are not simply tracing the path).

If you approximate this operation in the obvious way on a discrete
raster, the number of operations is the order of N * M, where N
is the number of pixels in the area of the pen shape and M is the
number of points along the path that are needed to give adequate
accuracy (Notice that many pixels are "drawn" very many times in
this simple implementation). So amongst other things the amount
of work grows at least with resolution *cubed*, since N grows with
resolution squared and M grows linearly with resolution.

A more sophisticated model is to find the envelope of the family
of shapes when moved along the curve. This involves solving
differential equations, and can - except in trivial cases - not be
done in closed form, only numerically approximated.  Amongst
other things the removal of internal (useless) parts of the=20 envelope
is a very difficult problem to do reliably (something which has=20 been
discussed at length in comp.text.tex and other places).

MetaFont itself uses yet another approximation which is based on
using polygons for both the outline of the pen shape and the
path along which it is dragged.  Convex polygons can be
convolved much more cheaply than arbitrary shapes, and non-convex
polygons can be broken down into unions of convex polygons
(this is oversimplification).

There is no princip= al advantage of outlines to strokes, but there is a
large practical difference in that PS and PDF have lots of support the
former and almost none for the latter. Does that mean the error is more in
MetaFont than in PostScript?

For arguments sake, let us suppose there was a completely general
and completely reliable way to produce outlines (in cubic spline
approximation) from MetaFont code.  That is, that one could make
unhinted Type 1 fonts easily from MetaFont. That would remove the
two main drawbacks of (i) MetaFont output being in bitmapped form,
and (ii) of the slow computation based on MetaFont's drawing model.=20
There would still be many interesting questions.

One is whether any typographers would use MetaFont. Very few
have. D.E. Knuth is one, Yannis Haralambous is another.  But even
the Euler fonts designed by Hermann Zapf could not be made using
the traditional MetaFont model, despite months of work by students
at Stanford. They were finally made in outline form --- the alternate
method for MetaFont --- which incidentally was a good thing for
people at Y&Y who converted them to Type 1 format!

Generally hackers find MetaFont cute because of its way of defining
what you want in an indirect way.  Artists with good eye for design
generally are not in this category.  They like to sketch things and
do not see the glyphs in terms of inequalities and numbers.

>> It seems t= o me that the way in which different resolutions are dealt
>> with in MF must be superior to the rather simple-minded approach in
>> type1 fonts (via hints).
>
> On the contrary, the hinting mechanism in Type 1 fonts as implemented
> in ATM (not GhostScript) is simply superb and relatively easy to use.
> Complex grid adjustments in MF are possible, but difficult to program.

That is the difference between a high-level mechanism (hints) and a
low-level mechanism (explicit calculations of discrete coordinates). The
basic model in Type 1 fonts is sound, but the way it is encoded is=20 a
_mess_. The Type 2 encoding makes sense,=20 though.

Note sure what this is about.  Is it the code used to describe
outlines you object to, or is it the encryption method, or is it
the language used to describe hints?

General question: H= as anyone ever tried to implement something like Type 1
stem hints in MetaFont? Presumably that would be as a MF macro package for
adjusting point coordinates. I'm not particularly advocating that one
should use MF bimaps instead of scalable outlines, but it would be
interesting to hear to what extent such possibilities have at all been
examined, and if so how good the results were.

Why on earth would anyone be interested in doing anything with
MetaFont these days. You are beating a dead horse.  Just byte the
bullet and make scalable outline fonts. The commercial tools are
not too bad these days (FontLab).  Even if you followed your
proposed program, you would still have bitmaps that only work
at one resolution. The hinting action would be too early.

>> The virtua= l font mechanism also seems to me a superior (more flexible)
>> way of dealing with large fonts than internal recoding ala type1 --
>> basically, indirection versus a fixed array.
>
> No. VF can only reorganize a character layout , that is it deals only
> with character code numbers. It maps numbers (0--256) to numbers
> (0--256).  fIt cannot e.g. make unencoded characters
> accessible. For that a separate mechanism is needed
> (e.g. DVIPS use of entries in psfonts.map).

The 256 character limit (codes 0--255, not 256) is in the TFM format rather
than in VF. The character space that can be accessed through DVI commands,
and thus that a VF can map into, is 32 bits rather than 8. The (re)encoding
process is due mainly to how fonts work in PS: there has to be an encoding
vector in the font dictionary, but that can be replaced without any effect
on the glyphs. That there can be such a thing as an "unencoded character"
is more an artifact of PS than a restriction in TeX and related software.
Furthermore "entries in psfonts.map" have very little to do with the
reencoding; it's all a matter of putting in the PS output a few commands
that substitute one encoding vector with another.

You totally miss the point. VF maps *NUMBERS* to *NUMBERS*
Which is fine if your model of characters is that characters *ARE*
numbers (and hence if we accept the Unicode model, but then we
need 16 bit numbers, or better yet the 32 bit extension of Unicode).

What you really want is a mapping from *NUMBERS*
to *GLYPH NAMES*. This is the brilliant idea of Adobe with the
encoding vector. And this is what you really need do deal with fonts.
Simply permuting where stuff shows up in the range from 0--256
is much less useful (for example, this does nothin you could not
already do using suitable TeX code!), and is completely unable to
make  *UNENCODED* characters available.

> but is obvious= ly more powerful than mapping from
> numbers to numbers as in VF.

Wrong! There is always more power in mappings from a set into itself, since
such mappings can be composed, than there is in mappings from one set to
another. Identifying glyphs by name instead of a serial number is a good
idea though.

Sounds like you almost got the idea there :-)

> TAn important aspect of scalable outline
> fonts such as Type 1 and TrueType is that (suitable software)
> can freely reencode them, thus rearranging character layout *and*
> making unencoded characters accessible.

None of which has anything to do with the fonts are defined by outlines.
Precisely the same thing can be done with Type 3 fonts---even with Type 3
fonts defined by bitmaps.

Yes, you can do that with Type 3 fotns, but *not* with MetaFont
produced bitmapped PK fonts.  And that is what we are talking
about here. PK fonts have hardwired encoding. There is no
concept of glyph names.

Regards, Berthold.

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu= http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_92955583==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 3 18:39:08 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01116 for ; Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:39:08 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-018casfrmp085.dialsprint.net ([158.252.222.87] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hhRR-0001IO-00; Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:39:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:38:28 -0800 To: Rowland McDonnell , "tex-fonts" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_93300008==_.ALT" --=====================_93300008==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 23:41 3/3/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: >At 4:03 PM +0000 3/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > >[snip] > > > And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution > > bitmaps and not being useable with anything but TeX. > >[snip] > >What's wrong with fixed resolution bitmaps tailored to a particular >printer? That's a positive advantage in my book: all the alleged >advantages of Postscript Type 1 fount quality *without* the need for >expensive Postscript. When you want to send your stuff to a wide audience you cannot send a different version for every possible device (such as 196 x 203 dpi fax mode e.g.) Also, you may not know this on your platform, but in modern versions of Windows the font rasterizer is built in so you can print to *NON*-PS printers just as easily and get the full benefit of bitmaps optimized for your non-PS printer. On legacy version of windows and on the Mac, ATM does this for you. >Certainly, Metafont does a *much* better job of rendering Computer Modern >than either Acrobat Reader or ATM does (I assume that the rasteriser is the >same in both cases, mind), from the point of view of my 300dpi and 600dpi >inkjets (I've not done a comparison between the two on the dot matrix - >even I have some limits). When I say `much better', I mean `much more like >Knuth's intentions as shown in his print publications and without horrible >cockups like glyph collisions on paper'. How can it be a disadvantage when >it produces higher quality output? We had this discussion before, and I know that you see this on your machine with your printer and your TeX setup. It is however not a general observation. No one else ever reported anything like that. ATM rasterization is outstanding - as long as the fonts are well hinted. And when I send you a PDF file containing Type 1 fonts, I do not have to take into account what strange printer you are using. Regards, Berthold. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_93300008==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 23:41 3/3/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote:

At 4:03 PM +0000 3/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote:

[snip]

> And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution
> bitmaps and not  being useable with anything but TeX.

[snip]

What's wrong with fixed resolution bitmaps tailored to a particular
printer?  That's a positive advantage in my book: all the alleged
advantages of Postscript Type 1 fount quality *without* the need for
expensive Postscript.

When you want to send your stuff to a wide audience you cannot
send a different version for every possible device (such as 196 x 203 dpi
fax mode e.g.)   Also, you may not know this on your platform,
but in modern versions of Windows the font rasterizer is built in
so you can print to *NON*-PS printers just as easily and get the
full benefit of bitmaps optimized for your non-PS printer. On legacy
version of windows and on the Mac, ATM does this for you.

Certainly, Metafont does a *much* better job of rendering Computer Modern
than either Acrobat Reader or ATM does (I assume that the rasteriser is the
same in both cases, mind), from the point of view of my 300dpi and 600dpi
inkjets (I've not done a comparison between the two on the dot matrix -
even I have some limits).  When I say `much better', I mean `much more like
Knuth's intentions as shown in his print publications and without horrible
cockups like glyph collisions on paper'.  How can it be a disadvantage when
it produces higher quality output?

We had this discussion before, and I know that you see this on your
machine with your printer and your TeX setup. It is however not a
general observation. No one else ever reported anything like that.
ATM rasterization is outstanding - as long as the fonts are well hinted.

And when I send you a PDF file containing Type 1 fonts, I do not
have to take into account what strange printer you are using.

Regards, Berthold.

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_93300008==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 01:28:31 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr (ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.238.117]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04879 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:28:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr (Switch-2.1.4/Switch-2.1.0/Configured by JE 06 12 2001) with ESMTP id g248RPZ27988; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:27:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from euclide (euclide [193.48.255.207]) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA20555; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:26:41 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:26:33 +0100 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <342537198.20020304092633@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Rowland McDonnell CC: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re[3]: tfm used by dvips In-Reply-To: References: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le lundi 4 mars 2002 à 00:45:33, je reçus de la part de Rowland McDonnell le suivant message: >>Mmh, it's perfectly sensible as a print driver, not as a file generator. RM> That's what it's mainly used as, though, isn't it? mostly I can't say... certainly, yes. But how many research papers are available on the web as .ps.gz? The Cahiers GUTenberg even distributed the printer's PS files for some of their issues with PK bitmaps in it optimized for the Docutech (which prints white on black [or the other way around, I never remember]) yielding incorrect print on most canon engine, and very very bad srceen rendering... BTW, even in the case of a publisher, you never really can say on what device a given file will be printed: you phone to the printer, he gives a machine name; then there are delays, he sends the file to another machine, or even pass it to another company... RM> This can happen, but we have pdfTeX these days so there's no need (that I RM> can think of, anyway) to go dvi->PS->pdf any more, is there? there is also dvipdfm, I don't know how much of dvips' model it shares. I'm very pleased with pdftex, but it can't do anything, yes. RM> And if you want to produce a widely-readable document, pdf strikes me as a RM> better bet these days than PS. PDF with suited fonts, yes. -- Thierry Bouche From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 01:39:51 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr (ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.238.117]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04958 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:39:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr (Switch-2.1.4/Switch-2.1.0/Configured by JE 06 12 2001) with ESMTP id g248d0Z28497; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:39:00 +0100 (MET) Received: from euclide (euclide [193.48.255.207]) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21466; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:38:39 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:38:32 +0100 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <953255921.20020304093832@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: xander CC: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: `bread' font In-Reply-To: <153100276339.20010301174057@trinity.warande.net> References: <153100276339.20010301174057@trinity.warande.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le jeudi 1 mars 2001 à 17:40:57, je reçus de la part de xander xander le suivant message: x> So I have been using alternatives now for months and I really like x> to know which font sets you prefer as a bread font. I, for one, heavily dislike Palatino, which is good for titling when you want a calligraphic touch, but not pleasant to read for textes and totally unadequate on screen. Many people go for Palatino just because it is as free as Times, and less (they believe) seen... In the free font world, I think my better bet is adobe utopia, which is both very robust, displays well at low res, and yet has an original & delicate design. The trick here is to use it reduced on paper to counter its oversized x-height (something like 90 % will make it more or less compatible with cmtt, and latex's default baselineskips, etc.), and use it slightly zoomed on screen for good readability. The only problem ius that there is no math fonts (I use Lucida greek, e.g.) but this could change during forthcoming months. Another friendly alternative is Charter + Euler maths, in a more casual style. In the usual (costly) font world, there are sooo many good bread fonts, that it would be difficult to list all possibilities... (I'm just doing a book in Charrapal now, could not be used anywhere, but works quite impressively in the actual context...) -- Thierry Bouche From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 09:14:32 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09366 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:14:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-024casfrmp086.dialsprint.net ([63.183.9.88] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16hv6O-0004mj-00; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:14:16 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304081245.0274ae50@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:14:10 -0800 To: Thierry Bouche , Rowland McDonnell From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re[3]: tfm used by dvips Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <342537198.20020304092633@ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_145807540==_.ALT" --=====================_145807540==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:26 3/4/2002 +0100, Thierry Bouche wrote: >RM> This can happen, but we have pdfTeX these days so there's no need (that I >RM> can think of, anyway) to go dvi->PS->pdf any more, is there? > >there is also dvipdfm, I don't know how much of dvips' model it shares. > >I'm very pleased with pdftex, but it can't do anything, yes. > >RM> And if you want to produce a widely-readable document, pdf strikes me as a >RM> better bet these days than PS. > >PDF with suited fonts, yes. Well, since people just seem to love using EPS inclusions and PostScript "trickery", going via PS is often the only choice, rather than going directly to PDF. Plus you get to use Distiller, which is the top of the line PS interpreter. >-- > Thierry Bouche -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_145807540==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 09:26 3/4/2002 +0100, Thierry Bouche wrote:

RM> This can happen, but we have pdfTeX these days so there's no need (that I
RM> can think of, anyway) to go dvi->PS->pdf any more, is there?

there is also dvipdfm, I don't know how much of dvips' model it shares.

I'm very pleased with pdftex, but it can't do anything, yes.

RM> And if you want to produce a widely-readable document, pdf strikes me as a
RM> better bet these days than PS.

PDF with suited fonts, yes.

Well, since people just seem to love using EPS inclusions and
PostScript "trickery", going via PS is often the only choice, rather
than going directly to PDF.  Plus you get to use Distiller, which
is the top of the line PS interpreter.

--
 Thierry Bouche                                     

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_145807540==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 10:12:04 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11045 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:12:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA03003; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:11:59 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303170143.027d6110@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303092728.0275d498@mail.ai.mit.edu> <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:11:59 +0100 To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA11046 At 02.32 +0100 2002-03-04, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > Hi: > > At 00:27 3/4/2002 +0100, Lars Hellström wrote: >> At 18.37 +0100 2002-03-03, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >> >> > At 17:04 3/3/2002 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: >> > >> >> Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts >> >> can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts? >> > >> > Because the drawing model is different. Instead of >> > conceptually finding the envelope of one shape when >> > it is dragged along another shape, scalable outline >> > fonts, as the name suggests, encode the envelope directly >> > (yes, I know you can use MetaFont to encode outlines directly >> > also, but this is not how it is most commonly used or what >> > its strength is). >> >> But that has no relevance for the speed of rasterization. In fact it's >> probably the other way round: the paths involved in drawing (stroking) a >> letter are usually much simpler than the actual outline, and drawing on a >> raster is computationally much simpler than filling an outline. > > I don't think I made what I was saying clear enough: > > The model in MetaFont is conceptually to draw one shape (the pen) > in positions corresponding to all points on another shape (the path). > If you like you are convolving the pen shape (area) with the path (curve) > (That is, you are not simply tracing the path). That's if you do it the simplistic way. An equally simplistic approach to outlines would be at least as bad. > A more sophisticated model is to find the envelope of the family > of shapes when moved along the curve. This involves solving > differential equations, and can - except in trivial cases - not be > done in closed form, only numerically approximated. Amongst > other things the removal of internal (useless) parts of the envelope > is a very difficult problem to do reliably (something which has been > discussed at length in comp.text.tex and other places). We're discussing what happens in rasterizers. A rasterizer that converts strokes to outlines makes a terrible waste of computing power. > MetaFont itself uses yet another approximation which is based on > using polygons for both the outline of the pen shape and the > path along which it is dragged. Convex polygons can be > convolved much more cheaply than arbitrary shapes, and non-convex > polygons can be broken down into unions of convex polygons > (this is oversimplification). But that is how a realistic rasterizer would do it. >> There is no principal advantage of outlines to strokes, but there is a >> large practical difference in that PS and PDF have lots of support the >> former and almost none for the latter. Does that mean the error is more in >> MetaFont than in PostScript? > > For arguments sake, let us suppose there was a completely general > and completely reliable way to produce outlines (in cubic spline > approximation) from MetaFont code. That is, that one could make > unhinted Type 1 fonts easily from MetaFont. That would remove the > two main drawbacks of (i) MetaFont output being in bitmapped form, > and (ii) of the slow computation based on MetaFont's drawing model. You're missing the point. You're arguing that outlines are principally better than strokes, I'm saying that they're more useful only because PS and PDF gives little or no support for strokes. > There would still be many interesting questions. > One is whether any typographers would use MetaFont. Very few > have. D.E. Knuth is one, Yannis Haralambous is another. But even > the Euler fonts designed by Hermann Zapf could not be made using > the traditional MetaFont model, despite months of work by students > at Stanford. They were finally made in outline form --- the alternate > method for MetaFont --- which incidentally was a good thing for > people at Y&Y who converted them to Type 1 format! That _is_ an interesting point. > Generally hackers find MetaFont cute because of its way of defining > what you want in an indirect way. Artists with good eye for design > generally are not in this category. They like to sketch things and > do not see the glyphs in terms of inequalities and numbers. But that is just the usual WYSIWYG versus TeX-style ways of doing things. It has no bearing on outlines versus strokes. >> >> It seems to me that the way in which different resolutions are dealt >> >> with in MF must be superior to the rather simple-minded approach in >> >> type1 fonts (via hints). >> > >> > On the contrary, the hinting mechanism in Type 1 fonts as implemented >> > in ATM (not GhostScript) is simply superb and relatively easy to use. >> > Complex grid adjustments in MF are possible, but difficult to program. >> >> That is the difference between a high-level mechanism (hints) and a >> low-level mechanism (explicit calculations of discrete coordinates). The >> basic model in Type 1 fonts is sound, but the way it is encoded is a >> _mess_. The Type 2 encoding makes sense, though. > > Note sure what this is about. Is it the code used to describe > outlines you object to, or is it the encryption method, or is it > the language used to describe hints? Well, surely the encryption scheme is just bizarre these days (although appearently it can disposed of completely, by setting lenIV to -1 and using readhexstring instead of readstring, as is done in some .gsf fonts), but I was mainly thinking about how callothersubr are used to implement things for which there are proper commands in the Type 2 charstring format. >> General question: Has anyone ever tried to implement something like Type 1 >> stem hints in MetaFont? Presumably that would be as a MF macro package for >> adjusting point coordinates. I'm not particularly advocating that one >> should use MF bimaps instead of scalable outlines, but it would be >> interesting to hear to what extent such possibilities have at all been >> examined, and if so how good the results were. > > Why on earth would anyone be interested in doing anything with > MetaFont these days. If one wants to make experiments with the aim of developing a better rasterizer for GhostScript, then I believe MetaFont would be an excellent platform to work on. Being a scripted system, it would make for faster development of prototypes than working in e.g. C. (Not that I actually feel a need to work on that myself, but it is an interesting project.) > You are beating a dead horse. Just byte the > bullet and make scalable outline fonts. Oh, I assure you scalable outline fonts _are_ what I am working on these days. > The commercial tools are > not too bad these days (FontLab). I suppose it's still WYSIWYG? I've never been able to make a good-looking curve by fiddling around with control points in WYSIWYG tools, I'm afraid. Whereas with MF and MP it is easy to get the right shape. > Even if you followed your > proposed program, you would still have bitmaps that only work > at one resolution. The hinting action would be too early. Again, this is because PS rasterizers have no built-in support for hinting in fonts that are defined using strokes. Given such support, the MF code would of course be converted to some PS font description rather than used to directly rasterize. >> The 256 character limit (codes 0--255, not 256) is in the TFM format rather >> than in VF. The character space that can be accessed through DVI commands, >> and thus that a VF can map into, is 32 bits rather than 8. The (re)encoding >> process is due mainly to how fonts work in PS: there has to be an encoding >> vector in the font dictionary, but that can be replaced without any effect >> on the glyphs. That there can be such a thing as an "unencoded character" >> is more an artifact of PS than a restriction in TeX and related software. >> Furthermore "entries in psfonts.map" have very little to do with the >> reencoding; it's all a matter of putting in the PS output a few commands >> that substitute one encoding vector with another. > > You totally miss the point. VF maps *NUMBERS* to *NUMBERS* > Which is fine if your model of characters is that characters *ARE* > numbers (and hence if we accept the Unicode model, but then we > need 16 bit numbers, or better yet the 32 bit extension of Unicode). Both of which are supported by the VF format [I just checked: a VF in general maps a 32-bit character code to an arbitrary sequence of DVI commands]. The 8-bit restrictions are in TeX (but not Omega), in TFM (but not OFM), and in PostScript. > What you really want is a mapping from *NUMBERS* > to *GLYPH NAMES*. The advantage (and for fontinst this advantage is rather important) of glyph names is that they, unlike numbers, can have a meaning that is related to the glyph. That glyphs can have names is indeed a bright idea, but Adobe haven't always been that keen on it. For one thing, there was originally BuildChar procedures, but no BuildGlyph procedures. Also, they are quite fond of giving their glyphs names like afii10035, which essentially takes everything back into the realm of numbers. >> > TAn important aspect of scalable outline >> > fonts such as Type 1 and TrueType is that (suitable software) >> > can freely reencode them, thus rearranging character layout *and* >> > making unencoded characters accessible. >> >> None of which has anything to do with the fonts are defined by outlines. >> Precisely the same thing can be done with Type 3 fonts---even with Type 3 >> fonts defined by bitmaps. > > Yes, you can do that with Type 3 fotns, but *not* with MetaFont > produced bitmapped PK fonts. And that is what we are talking > about here. PK fonts have hardwired encoding. There is no > concept of glyph names. That is completely dependent on what PS code you generate from the PK bitmaps. You could make Type 3's from bitmaps that have the same glyph set as Vladimir's SF fonts, but I doubt that anyone has ever found such a manoeuvre useful. Level 1 PostScript wouldn't allow you to access more than 256 of the glyphs at any one time anyway. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 10:16:44 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11138 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:16:43 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-7-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.7.149]) by rhenium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hw4m-0006gb-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:16:40 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:16:25 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA11142 Berthold, I've had enough of trying to deal with your dreadful formatting. I give up. I'm afraid list readers will have to figure out the quoting themselves because I'm sick and tired of having to work to get round your antisocial email habits. Why don't you just tell your email program to stop sending html to the tex-fonts list? At 1:38 AM +0000 4/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > At 23:41 3/3/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > > >At 4:03 PM +0000 3/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > [snip] > > > And MF has other disadvantages such as producing fixed resolution > > bitmaps and not  being useable with anything but TeX. > > [snip] > > What's wrong with fixed resolution bitmaps tailored to a particular > printer?  That's a positive advantage in my book: all the alleged > advantages of Postscript Type 1 fount quality *without* the need for > expensive Postscript. > > > When you want to send your stuff to a wide audience you cannot > send a different version for every possible device (such as 196 x 203 dpi > fax mode e.g.) Yes, but that's irrelevent. When you want to send your stuff to a wide audience, you can select different methods of doing it. Printing it out on paper is one. For best quality under those circumstances, one would obviously use a huge, humming high-res imagesetter and proper printing press and Postscript all over the place. Out here in the land of limited resources, if I want high quality printing, I must avoid using Postscript T1 founts. The job of sending electronic copies of a document to people is very different to preparing a high quality print version of that document using limited resources such as what I have *here*. And I'm not talking about the job of sending electronic copies: I'm talking about the job of me printing out my own documents here on my own printer from my own computer - to do that at highest quality with the CM founts, I must use the Metafont versions and avoid the PS T1 versions. The simple fact of the matter is this: if you want the highest possible quality output, you need that output tailored to your output device. The Metafont versions of the CM founts are better for this than any PS T1 founts I've ever met - and I've looked most carefully. Note also that I originally thought you were telling the truth when you said that PS T1 output was superior - I was *expecting* to see higher quality, but I was in fact horrified at what I met the instant I saw a page of CMPS come out of my printer. It took seconds for me to see the grotesque mess ATM makes of rendering the CMPS founts. Think on that, if you will. >   Also, you may not know this on your platform, > but in modern versions of Windows the font rasterizer is built in It's been built in for years as it has with the Macintosh operating systems, or have you never heard of Truetype? > so you can print to *NON*-PS printers just as easily and get the > full benefit of bitmaps optimized for your non-PS printer. So you claim. But I've seen absolutely no evidence to back up this claim and until I see some evidence one way or another, your claims are worthless (you've duped me in the past, y'see) and I don't see what it's got to do with anything. At medium resolution, CMPS = bad; Metafont CM = good. My guess is that this whatever this fount rasterizer is, it doesn't do a great job of optimizing the output bitmaps. Certainly ATM is bad at the job, so why should I assume that some other rasteriser for some other unspecified job of rendering unspecified founts is any better? - especially one coming from Microsoft which doesn't exactly have a reputation for having a clue about high quality typography. > On legacy > version of windows and on the Mac, ATM does this for you. ATM does not do this for me. ATM is not usable on modern versions of the MacOS - too unreliable for MacOS 9.1 and above, and absent from MacOS X entirely. >Certainly, Metafont does a *much* better job of rendering Computer Modern > than either Acrobat Reader or ATM does (I assume that the rasteriser is the > same in both cases, mind), from the point of view of my 300dpi and 600dpi > inkjets (I've not done a comparison between the two on the dot matrix - > even I have some limits).  When I say `much better', I mean `much more like > Knuth's intentions as shown in his print publications and without horrible > cockups like glyph collisions on paper'.  How can it be a disadvantage when > it produces higher quality output? > > > We had this discussion before, and I know that you see this on your > machine with your printer and your TeX setup. With several printers and TeX setups (OzTeX, CMacTeX, and MikTeX) and different operating systems (anything from System 7.1 down to Windoze NT) on different computers (68k Mac, PPC Mac, and a couple of Windoze boxes) and pdf files containing the CMPS founts from my own pdfTeXing and others (some generated by Distiller) - all plural. And this is printing on anything from my 300dpi inkjet by ATM running under System 7.6.1 to the same sort of stuff printing on a full-on 600dpi Postscript level 2 beastie driven from a Windoze box or that same Windoze box driving a 300dpi or 600dpi inkjet from Ghostscript (did I mention the fact that I've done extensive investigations using lots of different hardware and software? I wanted to get to the *truth*). It's always there, wherever I look. And I've looked most carefully to find signs of the high quality you claim is there - I *really* want the best quality output - and the CMPS founts just aren't up to my standards under those circumstances. The founts look ugly and very far from Knuth's intentions when printed in my experience - although I have assured myself that they're fine at *high* resolution, but that's not the point, is it? And it's what Mac TeX users - CMacTeX or OzTeX - see and comment on in general. I've met this observation as a general comment - but you refuse to hear such comments or examine the evidence or indeed entertain the possibility that your One True Method of Printing has any disadvantages compared to anything else or indeed any defects at all. >It is however not a > general observation. No one else ever reported anything like that. My, we are omniscient today, aren't we? You're wrong, of course: I've talked to plenty - including, for example, the author of a TeX distribution who's very keen on using PS T1 founts himself but seriously dislikes the dreadfully warped appearance of the CM/PS founts on medium resolution printers, for exactly the same reasons I do. I note that you refused to attempt to replicate my results. Your response to any suggestion that PS T1 founts are not perfect is to simply refuse to have anything to do with the idea. If ever I needed any evidence that you enjoy living in cloud-cuckoo land, that's it. Why didn't you examine the evidence I prepared on the defects in ATM's rendering of the CMPS founts? > ATM rasterization is outstanding - as long as the fonts are well hinted. So you repeatedly claim with absolutely no evidence to back up your claim and plenty of evidence to refute it. Y'know, I *used* to think you were right on this point: after all, you work in the field and suchlike. But as soon as I *saw* the `outstanding' results ATM produces, I realised that I'd been conned. Your claim falls over at the first hurdle: the results *I* get from ATM using founts which you assure me are well hinted are atrocious when you're printing in the range 300-600dpi. This is in fact a general observation - pretty much everyone except *you* can see it. > And when I send you a PDF file containing Type 1 fonts, I do not > have to take into account what strange printer you are using. [snip] So what? If I want to send someone an electronic copy of a LaTeX document, I'll run it through pdfTeX. Of course. But if I want top quality printed output I'll use Metafont output because it's superior. Any damned fool can see that - except for the almight Berthold K.P. Horn, of course. Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 10:16:46 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11144 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:16:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-7-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.7.149]) by rhenium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hw4p-0006gb-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:16:43 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303170143.027d6110@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303092728.0275d498@mail.ai.mit.edu> <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:16:18 +0000 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA11145 Berthold, I've had enough of trying to deal with your dreadful formatting. I give up. I'm afraid list readers will have to figure out the quoting themselves because I'm sick and tired of having to work to get round your antisocial email habits. Why don't you just tell your email program to stop sending html to the tex-fonts list? At 1:32 AM +0000 4/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > Hi: > > At 00:27 3/4/2002 +0100, Lars Hellström wrote: > > >At 18.37 +0100 2002-03-03, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > > At 17:04 3/3/2002 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > > > >> Is there any reason in principle why outline fonts > >> can be rasterized more quickly than MF fonts? > > > > Because the drawing model is different. Instead of > > conceptually finding the envelope of one shape when > > it is dragged along another shape, scalable outline > > fonts, as the name suggests, encode the envelope directly > > (yes, I know you can use MetaFont to encode outlines directly > > also, but this is not how it is most commonly used or what > > its strength is). > > But that has no relevance for the speed of rasterization. In fact it's > probably the other way round: the paths involved in drawing (stroking) a > letter are usually much simpler than the actual outline, and drawing on a > raster is computationally much simpler than filling an outline. > > > I don't think I made what I was saying clear enough: > > The model in MetaFont is conceptually to draw one shape (the pen) > in  positions corresponding to all points on another shape (the path). > If you like you are convolving the pen shape (area) with the path (curve) > (That is, you are not simply tracing the path). > > If you approximate this operation in the obvious way on a discrete > raster, the number of operations is the order of N * M, where N > is the number of pixels in the area of the pen shape and M is the > number of points along the path that are needed to give adequate > accuracy (Notice that many pixels are "drawn" very many times in > this simple implementation). So amongst other things the amount > of work grows at least with resolution *cubed*, since N grows with > resolution squared and M grows linearly with resolution. > > A more sophisticated model is to find the envelope of the family > of shapes when moved along the curve. This involves solving > differential equations, and can - except in trivial cases - not be > done in closed form, only numerically approximated.  Amongst > other things the removal of internal (useless) parts of the envelope > is a very difficult problem to do reliably (something which has been > discussed at length in comp.text.tex and other places). > > MetaFont itself uses yet another approximation which is based on > using polygons for both the outline of the pen shape and the > path along which it is dragged.  Convex polygons can be > convolved much more cheaply than arbitrary shapes, and non-convex > polygons can be broken down into unions of convex polygons > (this is oversimplification). > > > >There is no principal advantage of outlines to strokes, but there is a > large practical difference in that PS and PDF have lots of support the > former and almost none for the latter. Does that mean the error is more in > MetaFont than in PostScript? > > > For arguments sake, let us suppose there was a completely general > and completely reliable way to produce outlines (in cubic spline > approximation) from MetaFont code.  That is, that one could make > unhinted Type 1 fonts easily from MetaFont. That would remove the > two main drawbacks of (i) MetaFont output being in bitmapped form, > and (ii) of the slow computation based on MetaFont's drawing model. > There would still be many interesting questions. The thing is, I see Metafont's output being in bitmapped form as a huge *advantage* to me, because it means I can get high quality printing on any printer I care to generate bitmaps for. The slow computation doesn't matter at all and I'm suprised that you mention it. Unlike with PS T1 founts, rather than having to do the computationally horrifically wasteful job of re-rendering the founts every time you print, Metafont does the job once for each combination of fount and destination printer. Even when it took a weekend to generate a full set of LaTeX founts, this wasn't a problem at all. [snip] > Generally hackers find MetaFont cute because of its way of defining > what you want in an indirect way.  Artists with good eye for design > generally are not in this category.  They like to sketch things and > do not see the glyphs in terms of inequalities and numbers. Knuth pointed this out in the Metafont book. [snip] > Why on earth would anyone be interested in doing anything with > MetaFont these days. Quality. > You are beating a dead horse.  Just byte the > bullet and make scalable outline fonts. Bang goes output quality. > The commercial tools are > not too bad these days (FontLab).  Even if you followed your > proposed program, you would still have bitmaps that only work > at one resolution. Not at all. I can, in a short space of time, generate pk bitmaps to work at several different resolutions on several different output devices, filed in a fashion which makes it trivial to switch between bitmap sets. When a 70MB HDD was big and a 16(?)MHz 68020 was fast (Apollo DN330, anyone?), there were drawbacks to this way of working. But even I've got 40 (or is it 50?) GB of HD attached to this beastie. > The hinting action would be too early. Not at all: just too early from *your* point of view given what you think we should all be doing with our TeX output. >From *my* point of view, Metafont does the job of rendering founts very well. So what if I've got to have megabytes of HD taken up by a myriad bitmaps? I want my computer to work for its keep. [snip] > The 256 character limit (codes 0--255, not 256) is in the TFM format rather > than in VF. The character space that can be accessed through DVI commands, > and thus that a VF can map into, is 32 bits rather than 8. The (re)encoding > process is due mainly to how fonts work in PS: there has to be an encoding > vector in the font dictionary, but that can be replaced without any effect > on the glyphs. That there can be such a thing as an "unencoded character" > is more an artifact of PS than a restriction in TeX and related software. > Furthermore "entries in psfonts.map" have very little to do with the > reencoding; it's all a matter of putting in the PS output a few commands > that substitute one encoding vector with another. > > You totally miss the point. No need to be as crabby as me, is there? > VF maps *NUMBERS* to *NUMBERS* > Which is fine if your model of characters is that characters *ARE* > numbers (and hence if we accept the Unicode model, but then we > need 16 bit numbers, or better yet the 32 bit extension of Unicode). No, the model one uses is that characters are *represented* by numbers. And why ever not? It's an easy, efficient, obvious, clear way of working. The alternative model is that characters are *represented* by names, which is no more logical. Names or numbers - who cares? They're both arbitrary labels - characters are marks on paper (or similar), not bits in a computer. > What you really want is a mapping from *NUMBERS* > to *GLYPH NAMES*. No, it's what *you* want. > This is the brilliant idea of Adobe with the > encoding vector. And this is what you really need do deal with fonts. > Simply permuting where stuff shows up in the range from 0--256 > is much less useful (for example, this does nothin you could not > already do using suitable TeX code!), Well, you're wrong again. Using vfs, one can grab elements from any source and bolt them together in arbitrary ways, allowing (for example) hyphenation of words containing compound glyphs, those glyphs being compounded from components taken from *different* founts or even arbitrary dvi code. This is quite impossible to do without vfs - there are therefore very, very useful. > and is completely unable to > make  *UNENCODED* characters available. Yes, yes, yes, but unencoding characters are an invention of Adobe, right? If you're using the other way of doing things - that is, constructing founts in which all characters are encoded - being unable to make unencoding characters available for printing simply doesn't exist as a problem. It all depends on whether or not you're idealogically attached to a particular technology or not. I'm practical and don't have such ideological attachments: I'm interested in what I can do and how easy it is to do it at the highest quality. [snip] Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 10:16:44 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11139 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:16:44 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-7-149.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.7.149]) by rhenium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16hw4o-0006gb-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:16:42 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <342537198.20020304092633@ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <15489.36111.642043.821173@zarniwoop.kammer.uni-hannover.de > <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020301155117.034147b8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:32:49 +0000 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re[3]: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA11140 At 8:26 AM +0000 4/3/2002, Thierry Bouche wrote: >Le lundi 4 mars 2002 à 00:45:33, je reçus de la part de >Rowland McDonnell le suivant message: > >>>Mmh, it's perfectly sensible as a print driver, not as a file generator. > >RM> That's what it's mainly used as, though, isn't it? > >mostly I can't say... certainly, yes. But how many research papers are >available on the web as .ps.gz? I don't know, but I hope the proportion is falling: not everyone can print or view them, can they? >The Cahiers GUTenberg even distributed >the printer's PS files for some of their issues with PK bitmaps in it >optimized for the Docutech (which prints white on black [or the other >way around, I never remember]) yielding incorrect print on most canon >engine, and very very bad srceen rendering... Coo! >BTW, even in the case of a publisher, you never really can say on what >device a given file will be printed: you phone to the printer, he gives >a machine name; then there are delays, he sends the file to another >machine, or even pass it to another company... Oh, for sure - but if you're going for professional printing on a high-res imagesetter, using PS makes a *lot* of sense. Once you get up to high resolutions, you can forget all about the rendering defects in the PS T1 versions of various founts. >RM> This can happen, but we have pdfTeX these days so there's no need (that I >RM> can think of, anyway) to go dvi->PS->pdf any more, is there? > >there is also dvipdfm, I don't know how much of dvips' model it shares. > >I'm very pleased with pdftex, but it can't do anything, yes. I think you mean `it can't do everything yet'? - which is of course true, but I've not tried generating pdf from TeX source using other routes so I don't know what pdf(e)TeX is lacking compared to these other routes. >RM> And if you want to produce a widely-readable document, pdf strikes me as a >RM> better bet these days than PS. > >PDF with suited fonts, yes. Indeed. Given the limits of Acrobat Reader, one has to use PS T1 founts, and of course they must be appropriate for the job in hand. Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 11:31:58 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13163 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:31:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA09298; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:31:55 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:31:56 +0100 To: Rowland McDonnell From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Cc: "tex-fonts" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id LAA13164 At 18.16 +0100 2002-03-04, Rowland McDonnell wrote: >At 1:38 AM +0000 4/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >> On legacy >> version of windows and on the Mac, ATM does this for you. > >ATM does not do this for me. ATM is not usable on modern versions of the >MacOS - too unreliable for MacOS 9.1 and above, and absent from MacOS X >entirely. I believe it (or something of equivalent functionality) has (finally) been built into the OS. MacOS X out-of-the-box can render Type 1 fonts, at least if given in LWFN format. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 13:09:19 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.atlis.com (mail.atlis.com [216.181.97.2]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15118 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:09:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by mail.atlis.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA03573 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:09:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C83D2F1.AB2F3C05@atlis.com> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:02:58 -0500 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: tex-fonts Subject: ATM, Mac OS, Mac OS X (was Re: tfm used by dvips) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rowland said: >>ATM does not do this for me. ATM is not usable on modern versions of the >>MacOS - too unreliable for MacOS 9.1 and above, and absent from MacOS X >>entirely. ATM 4.6.2 deluxe works fine on this Mac running Mac OS 9.1. Lars then said: >I believe it (or something of equivalent functionality) has (finally) been >built into the OS. MacOS X out-of-the-box can render Type 1 fonts, at least >if given in LWFN format. The infamous Type 1 font scaler which doesn't scale fonts to the same metrics as ATM, so causes re-flow in apps like Quark which rely upon consistent font metrics. Mac OS X supports a _lot_ of font formats (though not the nifty .font bundles from NeXTstep---I miss DPS). I doubt it does its rasterization in a fashion compatible with ATM, so there's going to be a huge hue and cry when Quark finally gets Carbonized I'm guessing. Mac OS X's font scaling also handles hints funny, or at least the last time I looked closely at it it did (set a ``fi'' in Optima at 24 pt., then switch to the ligature for that---see a funny curve?) William -- William Adams, publishing specialist ATLIS Graphics & Design / 717-731-6707 voice / 717-731-6708 fax Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. http://www.atlis.com From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 4 13:30:21 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.atlis.com (mail.atlis.com [216.181.97.2]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15569 for ; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by mail.atlis.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA03740; Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:30:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C83D7D8.CE102F0C@atlis.com> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:23:53 -0500 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= CC: "Berthold K.P. Horn" , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: font design strategies (was Re: tfm used by dvips) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303092728.0275d498@mail.ai.mit.edu> <20020303170459.GA36697@boole.maths.tcd.ie> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Berthold said: >> There would still be many interesting questions. >> One is whether any typographers would use MetaFont. Very few >> have. D.E. Knuth is one, Yannis Haralambous is another. But even >> the Euler fonts designed by Hermann Zapf could not be made using >> the traditional MetaFont model, despite months of work by students >> at Stanford. They were finally made in outline form --- the alternate >> method for MetaFont --- which incidentally was a good thing for >> people at Y&Y who converted them to Type 1 format! >That _is_ an interesting point. But it's only one datapoint---I know Peter Karow and Ikarus represent another, but there's something really tedious and brain-dead about drawing outline after outline and tweaking and re-tweaking... >> Generally hackers find MetaFont cute because of its way of defining >> what you want in an indirect way. Artists with good eye for design >> generally are not in this category. They like to sketch things and >> do not see the glyphs in terms of inequalities and numbers. >But that is just the usual WYSIWYG versus TeX-style ways of doing things. >It has no bearing on outlines versus strokes. Moreover, as a counterpoint, I'd like to put forward that for a couple of years now I've been working on an optically-scaled, multiple master font which has been progressing rather slowly---I now have a _huge_ collection of outlines which're awkward to manage (and yes, I have FontLab---don't much care for its drawing tools nor for the laptop I use it on, so probably need to get an up-dated / more appropriate machine). There are times when I wonder if I would'n't've been better served to've studied math more in college and learned Metafont instead. William -- William Adams, publishing specialist ATLIS Graphics & Design / 717-731-6707 voice / 717-731-6708 fax Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. http://www.atlis.com From tex-fonts-errors Tue Mar 5 06:11:28 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.211.1]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28796 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 06:11:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from isar.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (isar [129.69.215.232]) by ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (8.9.3/2.2) with ESMTP id OAA28792; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:10:52 +0100 (MET) Received: (from raichle@localhost) by isar.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (8.9.3/2.2) id OAA07581; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:11:20 +0100 (MET) X-Authentication-Warning: isar.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de: raichle set sender to raichle@Informatik.Uni-Stuttgart.DE using -f From: Bernd Raichle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15492.50168.161167.625700@is.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:11:20 +0100 (MET) To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Plethora of encodings, does it matter? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303075656.0278b9d0@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303075656.0278b9d0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 20.7.1 On Sunday, 3 March 2002 07:59:33 -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn writes: > At 12:57 3/3/2002 +0000, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > > >On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 11:51:40AM +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > > > There's also the `If you don't support me, why the hell should I support > > > you?' line of reasoning - LY1 encoding is (basically) Y&Y's baby, and what > > > has Y&Y ever done for *me*? > > The question wasn't why you should support some other encoding, > but why style file so often use code that requires that the encoding > be taken into account at all. It would be best if all that was left to the > xxxenc.def file and the style not make any references to the > encoding at all. This is ok for macro packages used with LaTeX only but there are macro packages which can be used with plain etc. You have mentioned ``ngerman.sty'' resp. ``german.sty''. These packages can be used with Plain TeX and LaTeX. Because Plain TeX does not support font encodings I have to use the old Knuthian CM text font encoding which is called ``OT1'' in LaTeX as is. When integrating LaTeX's font encoding support into ``german.sty'' I have done my best to make it extendible using ``T1'' as the first extension. I have made the error that I haven't tested ``german.sty'' with more encodings, e.g. ``LY1''. In principle the addition of another font encoding to be used by ``german.sty'' should be straightforward by a XXXenc.def files and some additional font encoding declarations which have to be invented by german.sty because they are usually missing. Thus if there are text symbol declarations for \textquotedblleft, \textquotedblright etc. for LY1, ``german.sty'' should use them if you switch to the font encoding LY1. If they are missing, the OT1's are used as default. Nobody is perfect, thus I have implemented a scheme with some deficiencies, e.g. the implementation for the left and right german quotation marks \glqq-\glqq is asymmetric whereas it would be better to do it more properly in a symmetric way. I already have a newer versions where this is fixed and I hope to release it as soon as I find enough free time to do some tests (including LY1 support, Berthold, I have received your mail concerning the same design flaw). For ``german.sty'' I have tried my best to support font encodings, as many LaTeX(e) versions (starting from the one 1994/06/01 upto now ;-), LaTeX 2.09, Plain TeX etc. and had done a lot of tests with many TeX format files and macro file sets to remove as many bugs as possible. [...] -bernd _____________________________________________________________________ Bernd Raichle "Le langage est source Autor des `german.sty' (aktuell: v2.5e) de malentendus" DE-TeX-FAQ: http://www.dante.de/faq/de-tex-faq/ (A. de Saint-Exupery) From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 6 20:15:04 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05925 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:15:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-007casfrmp221.dialsprint.net ([158.252.214.223] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ioMt-0003IG-00; Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:14:59 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020306190824.02737410@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 19:14:43 -0800 To: Bernd Raichle , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: Plethora of encodings, does it matter? In-Reply-To: <15492.50168.161167.625700@is.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303075656.0278b9d0@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203021827.LAA16408@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302082514.026e8d58@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303075656.0278b9d0@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_358240282==_.ALT" --=====================_358240282==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 14:11 3/5/2002 +0100, Bernd Raichle wrote: > > The question wasn't why you should support some other encoding, > > but why style file so often use code that requires that the encoding > > be taken into account at all. It would be best if all that was left > to the > > xxxenc.def file and the style not make any references to the > > encoding at all. > >This is ok for macro packages used with LaTeX only but there are macro >packages which can be used with plain etc. You have mentioned >``ngerman.sty'' resp. ``german.sty''. These packages can be used with >Plain TeX and LaTeX. Oh. I forgot about that. I tend to deal with plain TeX and LaTeX 2.09 by \inputting a separate file to deal with encoding issues, e.g \input texnansi % for LY1. That currently does not define the various quotes, even though it defines other things like \S and \P, \trademark, \copyright etc. So it wouldn't help with "ngerman". >Because Plain TeX does not support font encodings I have to use the >old Knuthian CM text font encoding which is called ``OT1'' in LaTeX as is. .... >Nobody is perfect, thus I have implemented a scheme with some >deficiencies, e.g. the implementation for the left and right german >quotation marks \glqq-\glqq is asymmetric whereas it would be better >to do it more properly in a symmetric way. I already have a newer >versions where this is fixed and I hope to release it as soon as I >find enough free time to do some tests (including LY1 support, >Berthold, I have received your mail concerning the same design flaw). Great! Thanks. >For ``german.sty'' I have tried my best to support font encodings, as >many LaTeX(e) versions (starting from the one 1994/06/01 upto now ;-), >LaTeX 2.09, Plain TeX etc. and had done a lot of tests with many TeX >format files and macro file sets to remove as many bugs as possible. Regards, Berthold. ________ >Bernd Raichle "Le langage est source >Autor des `german.sty' (aktuell: v2.5e) de malentendus" >DE-TeX-FAQ: http://www.dante.de/faq/de-tex-faq/ (A. de Saint-Exupery) -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_358240282==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 14:11 3/5/2002 +0100, Bernd Raichle wrote:

 > The question wasn't why you should support some other encoding,
 > but why style file so often use code that requires that the encoding
 > be taken into account at all.  It would be best if all that was left to the
 > xxxenc.def file and the style not make any references to the
 > encoding at all.

This is ok for macro packages used with LaTeX only but there are macro
packages which can be used with plain etc.  You have mentioned
``ngerman.sty'' resp. ``german.sty''.  These packages can be used with
Plain TeX and LaTeX.

Oh. I forgot about that. 

I tend to deal with plain TeX and LaTeX 2.09 by \inputting a separate
file to deal with encoding issues, e.g \input texnansi % for LY1.
That currently does not define the various quotes, even though it
defines other things like \S and \P, \trademark, \copyright etc.
So it wouldn't help with "ngerman".

Because Plain TeX does not support font encodings I have to use the
old Knuthian CM text font encoding which is called ``OT1'' in LaTeX as is.
....

Nobody is perfect, thus I have implemented a scheme with some
deficiencies, e.g. the implementation for the left and right german
quotation marks \glqq-\glqq is asymmetric whereas it would be better
to do it more properly in a symmetric way.  I already have a newer
versions where this is fixed and I hope to release it as soon as I
find enough free time to do some tests (including LY1 support,
Berthold, I have received your mail concerning the same design flaw).

Great! Thanks.

For ``german.sty'' I have tried my best to support font encodings, as
many LaTeX(e) versions (starting from the one 1994/06/01 upto now ;-),
LaTeX 2.09, Plain TeX etc. and had done a lot of tests with many TeX
format files and macro file sets to remove as many bugs as possible.

Regards, Berthold.
________
Bernd Raichle                                  "Le langage est source
Autor des `german.sty' (aktuell: v2.5e)         de malentendus"
DE-TeX-FAQ: http://www.dante.de/faq/de-tex-faq/ (A. de Saint-Exupery)

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_358240282==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Thu Mar 7 14:10:04 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20791 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:10:03 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail.tug.org (adsl-67-113-89-21.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net [67.113.89.21]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g27L9vr25933 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:09:57 +0100 From: "Inkjets2go" Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 13:12:10 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_OMSDTSVMWB" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: PM20001:12:10 PM This is an HTML email message. If you see this, your mail client does not support HTML messages. ------=_NextPart_OMSDTSVMWB Content-Type: text/html;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 

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------=_NextPart_OMSDTSVMWB-- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 9 07:33:14 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23164 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:33:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-25-105.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.25.105]) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16jhuJ-0006dm-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:33:11 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:52:45 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: tfm used by dvips Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id HAA23165 At 6:31 PM +0000 4/3/2002, Lars Hellström wrote: >At 18.16 +0100 2002-03-04, Rowland McDonnell wrote: >>At 1:38 AM +0000 4/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >>> On legacy >>> version of windows and on the Mac, ATM does this for you. >> >>ATM does not do this for me. ATM is not usable on modern versions of the >>MacOS - too unreliable for MacOS 9.1 and above, and absent from MacOS X >>entirely. > >I believe it (or something of equivalent functionality) has (finally) Apple had been shipping ATM with the MacOS for some time before MacOS X came out in `nearly good enough for end users' form. > been >built into the OS. MacOS X out-of-the-box can render Type 1 fonts, at least >if given in LWFN format. Yep - absolutely (I suspect - but haven't checked - that it can use pfbs as well; certainly MacOS 9.2.2 can use Truetype founts with the fount data kept in the data fork Windoze-style, *providing* that you also have a FOND resource to go with the fount file proper. I suspect that pfbs work similarly straightforwardly under MacOS X, perhaps more so) - MacOS X uses Display PDF for screen drawing, although Apple's managed to cock it up quite badly (there are encoding issues...) Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 9 10:48:59 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24646 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:48:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-011casfrmp136.dialsprint.net ([158.252.242.138] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16jkxg-00048z-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:48:53 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309094254.027a4188@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:48:23 -0800 To: "tex-fonts" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: ATM, Mac OS X, DPS and TeX In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_221125161==_.ALT" --=====================_221125161==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 19:52 3/4/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > > been built into the OS. MacOS X out-of-the-box can render Type 1 fonts, > at least > >if given in LWFN format. > >Yep - absolutely (I suspect - but haven't checked - that it can use pfbs as >well; certainly MacOS 9.2.2 can use Truetype founts with the fount data >kept in the data fork Windoze-style, *providing* that you also have a FOND >resource to go with the fount file proper. I suspect that pfbs work >similarly straightforwardly under MacOS X, perhaps more so) - MacOS X uses >Display PDF for screen drawing, although Apple's managed to cock it up >quite badly (there are encoding issues...) As far as TeX is concerned, the important issue is whether the TeX systems ported from Unix make any use of system support for scalable fonts --- not as far as I know --- just as PC ports of TeX from Unix do not use the system support for scalable fonts. >Rowland. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_221125161==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 19:52 3/4/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote:

> been built into the OS. MacOS X out-of-the-box can render Type 1 fonts, at least
>if given in LWFN format.

Yep - absolutely (I suspect - but haven't checked - that it can use pfbs as
well; certainly MacOS 9.2.2 can use Truetype founts with the fount data
kept in the data fork Windoze-style, *providing* that you also have a FOND
resource to go with the fount file proper.  I suspect that pfbs work
similarly straightforwardly under MacOS X, perhaps more so) - MacOS X uses
Display PDF for screen drawing, although Apple's managed to cock it up
quite badly (there are encoding issues...)

As far as TeX is concerned, the important issue is whether the TeX
systems ported from Unix make any use of system support for
scalable fonts --- not as far as I know --- just as PC ports of TeX from
Unix do not use the system support for scalable fonts.

Rowland.

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_221125161==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 9 11:01:48 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from suncore.math.utah.edu (IDENT:OeNboncn4MvqP7uCWRa3A6VmZvAQfHyF@suncore0.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24770; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:01:47 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by suncore.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04618; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:01:47 -0700 (MST) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:01:47 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@sunshine.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: New articles on Apple and Microsoft font technology Message-ID: The recent articles cited below on Apple and Microsoft font technology may be of interest to some readers on this list; both are freely available electronically. If terms like ATSUI, AAT, GDL, OpenType, and Uniscribe puzzle you, the articles should help to explain them. The Correll article compares the Apple and Microsoft approaches to sophisticated font rendering, including kerns, ligatures, glyph substitution, and glyph reordering. The latter two may have received relatively little attention in the TeX community, yet both are necessary for support of several of the world's writing systems. The BibTeX entries are members of both font.bib and unicode.bib in the TUG bibliography archives at ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib @InProceedings{Correll:2000:GER, author = "Sharon Correll", title = "{Graphite}: An Extensible Rendering Engine for Complex Writing Systems", crossref = "UC:2000:SIUb", pages = "21", year = "2000", bibdate = "Thu Mar 7 06:18:24 2002", URL = "http://graphite.sil.org/pdf/IUC17_paper.pdf", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } @Misc{Hudson:2000:WGP, author = "John Hudson", title = "{Windows} Glyph Processing", howpublished = "World-Wide Web document.", day = "7", month = nov, year = "2000", bibdate = "Thu Mar 7 06:10:03 2002", URL = "http://www.microsoft.com/typography/developers/opentype/default.htm", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, annote = "From the introduction: ``\ldots{} This article introduces the different elements of the Microsoft Windows implementation of Unicode character and glyph processing, and explains how they can be used by font and application developers to provide users with sophisticated typographic controls and the ability to process text in complex scripts.''", keywords = "OpenType font format; Windows Unicode Script Processor (Uniscribe); OpenType Layout Services library (OTLS); Unicode", } @Proceedings{UC:2000:SIUb, editor = "{Unicode Consortium}", booktitle = "Seventeenth International Unicode Conference (IUC17) Unicode and the Web: the Global Connection, September 5--8, 2000, San Jose, California", title = "Seventeenth International Unicode Conference ({IUC17}) Unicode and the Web: the Global Connection, September 5--8, 2000, San Jose, California", publisher = pub-UNICODE, address = pub-UNICODE-SAN-JOSE:adr, pages = "????", year = "2000", ISBN = "????", LCCN = "????", bibdate = "Mon Jan 22 12:20:01 2001", URL = "http://www.unicode.org/iuc/iuc17", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 9 11:07:07 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24828 for ; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:07:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from spqr-dell ([213.107.68.150]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020309180704.GJJT7000.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@spqr-dell>; Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:07:04 +0000 Received: from rahtz by spqr-dell with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 16jlDL-0001NE-00; Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:05:03 +0000 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:05:03 +0000 From: Sebastian Rahtz To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Cc: tex-fonts Subject: Re: ATM, Mac OS X, DPS and TeX Message-ID: <20020309180503.GP4413@spqr-dell> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020309094254.027a4188@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309094254.027a4188@mail.ai.mit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: Sebastian Rahtz On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 09:48:23AM -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > > As far as TeX is concerned, the important issue is whether the TeX > systems ported from Unix make any use of system support for > scalable fonts --- not as far as I know --- My "Unix" (ie Linux) TeX setup generates PDF which I view with Acrobat Reader, which uses scaleable fonts. OK so far? On the rare occasions I use dvi, I could view it with xdvi, which asks the font renderer in X Windows to supply resources >From Type1 fonts. Thats "system support for scaleable fonts" in my book (whether its good or bad is irrelevant). -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From tex-fonts-errors Sun Mar 10 15:52:00 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mailout08.sul.t-online.com (mailout08.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.20]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07872 for ; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:51:59 -0700 (MST) Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16kCAX-0005hh-05; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:51:57 +0100 Received: from local (520083164441-0001@[217.84.38.249]) by fmrl00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16kCAU-28iISGC; Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:51:54 +0100 From: "Christian Kuhn" To: "Tex-Fonts" Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:51:53 +0100 Reply-To: "Christian Kuhn" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2000 Professional (2.20.2380) For Windows 98 (4.10.2222) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Code for Softmaker Message-ID: <16kCAU-28iISGC@fmrl00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 520083164441-0001@t-dialin.net Hi I was told that Walter Schmidt has proposed the code 5 for the font supplier softmaker some time ago. Is this an official code now? Kind regards Chris From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 06:33:13 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA16237 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:33:12 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203111333.GAA16237@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 26656 invoked by uid 101); 11 Mar 2002 13:33:09 -0000 Received: from pd902b89d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (217.2.184.157) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 13:33:09 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:31:47 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: successor to TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro Hi, there are more and more fonts around, which have an /Euro glyph. TeXBase1Encoding does, however, not include the Euro sign, so it is lost, when such a font is reencoded to 8r. We need a successor to 8r.enc, which includes the /Euro. (And, of course, a matching 8r.etx file for fontinst, but that's trivial.) There are still some free slots in 8r, so it should not be too difficult to find one, where to put the /Euro. What about 0x80? Many existing fonts do already use this slot. A further question is the glyph name. The fonts, which I examined so far, use /Euro, rather than /Uni20AC. See, e.g., the new Euro-enabled fonts from Linotype. (Some fonts use /currency for the Euro symbol; they work with the existing 8r.enc and just need special treatment in fontinst.) Finally, we have to agree on the name of the encoding and the name of the .enc file. What about "TeXEuro1Encoding" and "8re.enc"? I would like to publish (on my homepage) the TFMs and VFs for several fonts, which include the Euro sign. I'd be happy, if we could agree soon on a new standard encoding to be used in addition to (or: as a successor to) 8r. best wishes Walter -- Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 06:38:19 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from f7.net ([209.61.216.22]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16289 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:38:18 -0700 (MST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by f7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g2BEVvt07733; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:31:57 -0500 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:31:57 -0500 Message-Id: <200203111431.g2BEVvt07733@f7.net> From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: Christian.Kuhn@qno.de Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Code for Softmaker I was told that Walter Schmidt has proposed the code 5 for the font supplier softmaker some time ago. Is this an official code now? Guess this slipped past me. (Anyone else want to take over fontname?) Anyway, I added `5 softmake' to http://tug.org/fontname/supplier.map. Best, karl From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 06:55:47 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16530 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 06:55:46 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-87-185.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.87.185]) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16kQH5-0001KO-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:55:39 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3C83D2F1.AB2F3C05@atlis.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:33:28 +0000 To: tex-fonts From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: ATM, Mac OS, Mac OS X (was Re: tfm used by dvips) At 8:02 PM +0000 4/3/2002, William Adams wrote: >Rowland said: >>>ATM does not do this for me. ATM is not usable on modern versions of >the >>>MacOS - too unreliable for MacOS 9.1 and above, and absent from MacOS >X >>>entirely. > >ATM 4.6.2 deluxe works fine on this Mac running Mac OS 9.1. 4.6.2 *deluxe*? I thought the last version of ATM deluxe was 4.6.1? (4.6.1 causes widespread crashing havoc on my G4 under 9.1 or 9.2.2. I suppose I could mention that MacOS 9.0.4 and above have been the most atrociously unrealiable OSes I've ever had the misfortune to use) But you say it works fine: one problem I've met with ATM 4.6.1 is that it's not possible to switch off `preserve line spacing' - the switch appears to work in the control panel, but unruly descenders still get clipped. Does that work okay for you? >Lars then said: >>I believe it (or something of equivalent functionality) has (finally) >been >>built into the OS. MacOS X out-of-the-box can render Type 1 fonts, at >least >>if given in LWFN format. > >The infamous Type 1 font scaler which doesn't scale fonts to the same >metrics as ATM, so causes re-flow in apps like Quark which rely upon >consistent font metrics. Oh dear... Where do they get the metric data from in any case? [snip] >Mac OS X's font scaling also handles hints funny, or at least the last >time I looked closely at it it did (set a ``fi'' in Optima at 24 pt., >then switch to the ligature for that---see a funny curve?) Not having MacOS X, I can't try that - but is that particular ligature in Optima really worth the bother of designing it? Or do I have a funny copy of Optima? Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 07:50:08 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.atlis.com (mail.atlis.com [216.181.97.2]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17199 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:50:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by mail.atlis.com (8.7.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id JAA01718 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:50:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3C8CC25B.AF6FED75@atlis.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:42:35 -0500 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts Subject: Re: ATM, Mac OS, Mac OS X (was Re: tfm used by dvips) References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rowland said: >4.6.2 *deluxe*? I thought the last version of ATM deluxe was 4.6.1? >(4.6.1 causes widespread crashing havoc on my G4 under 9.1 or 9.2.2. I >suppose I could mention that MacOS 9.0.4 and above have been the most >atrociously unrealiable OSes I've ever had the misfortune to use) Mac OS 9 has been a godsend for me 'cause it finally gets the Mac past its limit of 348 open files---do you run with virtual memory? If not, turn that on. Extensions? Turn off anything you can do without. Mac OS 9 isn't all that great, but at least it's better than Mac OS 8.6-- for doing work involving large amounts of support files. (IME for any but the simplest of projects, Mac OS 8 runs out of file handles just 'bout when I'm getting going doing work). ATM 4.6.2 updater can be d/l'd by going to www.adobe.com, clicking on ``Support'', ``Select a Product'', ``Type Manager Deluxe'', ``ATM Deluxe for Mac OS'' hmm.... belay that last. All that's there is 4.6.1---guess 4.6.2 must've gotten pulled. Ask Adobe 'bout it. My copy of the installer is dated 5 June 2001. I'm irritated at Adobe, so if they won't come through, let me know and I'll post a copy for you to d/l. 4.6.1 worked okay for me too though, so I suspect it's a corrupted preference file, or something endemic to your Mac's setup---have you tried all the standard Mac troubleshooting voodoo? >But you say it works fine: one problem I've met with ATM 4.6.1 is that it's >not possible to switch off `preserve line spacing' - the switch appears to >work in the control panel, but unruly descenders still get clipped. Does >that work okay for you? Yes---how could anyone work without that? I said: >>The infamous Type 1 font scaler which doesn't scale fonts to the same >>metrics as ATM, so causes re-flow in apps like Quark which rely upon >>consistent font metrics. >Oh dear... Where do they get the metric data from in any case? The font as rasterized by the scaler---I think you can get around it by making bitmap fonts for _every_ size you use and setting ATM to favor them, but haven't bothered to experiment, just always trash the Apple scaler. I know it's bad of me, but I'm looking forward to the howls of anguish when Quark 5 comes out, and pages are different depending upon whether the app opens them in Classic or Carbon. I loathe Quark. >>Mac OS X's font scaling also handles hints funny, or at least the last >>time I looked closely at it it did (set a ``fi'' in Optima at 24 pt., >>then switch to the ligature for that---see a funny curve?) >Not having MacOS X, I can't try that - but is that particular ligature in >Optima really worth the bother of designing it? Or do I have a funny copy >of Optima? It's just ``f'' and ``i'' set together, so no real need for it---my point is it's in there and it's munged. William -- William Adams, publishing specialist ATLIS Graphics & Design / 717-731-6707 voice / 717-731-6708 fax Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. http://www.atlis.com From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 08:10:30 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17538 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:10:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA02158; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:10:25 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200203111333.GAA16237@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:10:27 +0100 To: "Walter Schmidt" From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: successor to TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro Cc: "tex-fonts" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id IAA17539 At 14.31 +0100 2002-03-11, Walter Schmidt wrote: >Hi, > >there are more and more fonts around, which have an /Euro glyph. >TeXBase1Encoding does, however, not include the Euro sign, so >it is lost, when such a font is reencoded to 8r. > >We need a successor to 8r.enc, which includes the /Euro. (And, >of course, a matching 8r.etx file for fontinst, but that's trivial.) > >There are still some free slots in 8r, so it should not be too >difficult to find one, where to put the /Euro. What about 0x80? >Many existing fonts do already use this slot. Sounds good to me. However the current comments say slots 128--159 are assigned according to Windows ANSI. Would this be in accordance with that, or does that use some other slot? [snip] >Finally, we have to agree on the name of the encoding and the name >of the .enc file. What about "TeXEuro1Encoding" and "8re.enc"? I don't see any reason not to let the new encoding replace the old 8r completely, i.e., take over the names 8r.enc and TeXBase1Encoding. According to Berthold a while ago, the 8r encoding was originally designed with empty slots for the very purpose of allowing for future additions such as this (although he, as always, was of quite the opposite opinion). Replacing entry 128 (/.notdef) in TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro has _no effect_ in fonts which do not have this glyph, and only positive effects in fonts that do have it. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 08:23:50 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17804 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:23:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-002casfrmp004.dialsprint.net ([158.252.209.6] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16kReI-0002YH-00; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:23:42 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311071156.048a5908@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:23:37 -0800 To: "Walter Schmidt" , "tex-fonts" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: successor to TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro In-Reply-To: <200203111333.GAA16237@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_58277859==_.ALT" --=====================_58277859==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi: At 14:31 3/11/2002 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote: >there are more and more fonts around, which have an /Euro glyph. >TeXBase1Encoding does, however, not include the Euro sign, so >it is lost, when such a font is reencoded to 8r. > >We need a successor to 8r.enc, which includes the /Euro. (And, >of course, a matching 8r.etx file for fontinst, but that's trivial.) > >There are still some free slots in 8r, so it should not be too >difficult to find one, where to put the /Euro. What about 0x80? >Many existing fonts do already use this slot. It's not so much an issue of the font, but of the encoding. On systems with support for scalable fonts, "text" fonts are all reencoded to platform specific encoding. Char code 128 is where Windows ANSI encoding has it. So unless you want to make a political statement about MS, this seems a reasonable choice. >A further question is the glyph name. The fonts, which I >examined so far, use /Euro, rather than /Uni20AC. See, e.g., >the new Euro-enabled fonts from Linotype. The reason some fonts call this glyph by the name "uni20ac" is that it took a while for "Euro" to make it into some operating system and font support. Meantime, ATM widely supported the convention that unixxxx could be used to access glyphs that had corresponding Unicode positions (despite all the rethoric, most characters corresponds to glyphs, and vice versa). By the way, its lower case "uni". Also, some person at Adobe decided to make "Euro" upper case, when "sterling", "dollar" "florin" etc. are all lower case. Sigh. Some fonts (like LucidaBright text fonts) have both "Euro" and "uni20AC" names for this glyphs so they'll work in the widest set of possible situations. > (Some fonts use >/currency for the Euro symbol; they work with the existing >8r.enc and just need special treatment in fontinst.) The reuse of "currency" was to help the Mac deal with this issue. Since its "wide" font support was/is in flux, they decided to reuse the slot for "currency" for this purpose. But this should not have had any effect on the font itself. Simply the "Euro" in the font is encoded at character code 219 instead of the older "currency" (which is then inaccessible). Regards, Berthold. >Finally, we have to agree on the name of the encoding and the name >of the .enc file. What about "TeXEuro1Encoding" and "8re.enc"? > >I would like to publish (on my homepage) the TFMs and VFs for >several fonts, which include the Euro sign. I'd be happy, >if we could agree soon on a new standard encoding to be used >in addition to (or: as a successor to) 8r. > >best wishes > >Walter > >-- >Walter Schmidt >Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany > > -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_58277859==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi:

At 14:31 3/11/2002 +0100, Walter Schmidt wrote:

there are more and more fonts around, which have an /Euro glyph.
TeXBase1Encoding does, however, not include the Euro sign, so
it is lost, when such a font is reencoded to 8r.

We need a successor to 8r.enc, which includes the /Euro.  (And,
of course, a matching 8r.etx file for fontinst, but that's trivial.)

There are still some free slots in 8r, so it should not be too
difficult to find one, where to put the /Euro.  What about 0x80?
Many existing fonts do already use this slot.

It's not so much an issue of the font, but of the encoding.
On systems with support for scalable fonts, "text" fonts
are all reencoded to platform specific encoding.

Char code 128 is where Windows ANSI encoding has it.
So unless you want to make a political statement about MS,
this seems a reasonable choice.

A further question is the glyph name.  The fonts, which I
examined so far, use /Euro, rather than /Uni20AC.  See, e.g.,
the new Euro-enabled fonts from Linotype.

The reason some fonts call this glyph by the name "uni20ac"
is that it took a while for "Euro" to make it into some operating
system and font support.  Meantime, ATM widely supported
the convention that unixxxx could be used to access glyphs
that had corresponding Unicode positions (despite all the
rethoric, most characters corresponds to glyphs, and vice versa).

By the way, its lower case "uni". 

Also, some person at Adobe
decided to make "Euro" upper case, when "sterling", "dollar"
"florin" etc. are all lower case. Sigh.

Some fonts (like LucidaBright text fonts) have both "Euro"
and "uni20AC" names for this glyphs so they'll work in the
widest set of possible situations.

 (Some fonts use
/currency for the Euro symbol; they work with the existing
8r.enc and just need special treatment in fontinst.)

The reuse of "currency" was to help the Mac deal with this
issue.  Since its "wide" font support was/is in flux, they decided
to reuse the slot for "currency" for this purpose. But this
should not have had any effect on the font itself. Simply the
"Euro" in the font is encoded at character code 219 instead
of the older "currency" (which is then inaccessible).

Regards, Berthold.

Finally, we have to agree on the name of the encoding and the name
of the .enc file.  What about "TeXEuro1Encoding" and "8re.enc"?

I would like to publish (on my homepage) the TFMs and VFs for
several fonts, which include the Euro sign.  I'd be happy,
if we could agree soon on a new standard encoding to be used
in addition to (or: as a successor to) 8r.

best wishes

Walter

--
Walter Schmidt
Schornbaumstrasse 2,  91052 Erlangen,  Germany
<mailto:was@VR-Web.de>
<http://home.vr-web.de/was/fonts>

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_58277859==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 09:21:54 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA19145 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:21:53 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203111621.JAA19145@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 10306 invoked by uid 101); 11 Mar 2002 16:21:50 -0000 Received: from pd902ba9c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (217.2.186.156) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 11 Mar 2002 16:21:50 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:21:39 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: successor to TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id JAA19147 On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:10:27 +0100, Lars Hellström wrote: >>Finally, we have to agree on the name of the encoding and the name >>of the .enc file. What about "TeXEuro1Encoding" and "8re.enc"? > >I don't see any reason not to let the new encoding replace the old 8r >completely, i.e., take over the names 8r.enc and TeXBase1Encoding. >[...] >Replacing entry 128 (/.notdef) in TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro has _no >effect_ in fonts which do not have this glyph, and only positive effects in >fonts that do have it. ACK! I could easily distribute an updated 8r.enc together with the next release of PSNFSS. On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:23:37 -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >Char code 128 is where Windows ANSI encoding has it. >So unless you want to make a political statement about MS, Oh no! I just want to continue the current practice of keeping the slots 128--159 of 8r.enc compatible with Windows ANSI. I don't know whether this has any practical use, but it certainly does not do any harm. >this seems a reasonable choice. best wishes Walter From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 13:20:57 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24807 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:20:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-4-104.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.4.104]) by protactinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16kWHt-0000Ao-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:20:55 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200203111333.GAA16237@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:24:47 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: successor to TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro At 1:31 PM +0000 11/3/2002, Walter Schmidt wrote: >Hi, > >there are more and more fonts around, which have an /Euro glyph. >TeXBase1Encoding does, however, not include the Euro sign, so >it is lost, when such a font is reencoded to 8r. > >We need a successor to 8r.enc, which includes the /Euro. (And, >of course, a matching 8r.etx file for fontinst, but that's trivial.) > >There are still some free slots in 8r, so it should not be too >difficult to find one, where to put the /Euro. What about 0x80? >Many existing fonts do already use this slot. I'm entirely neutral on the subject. If you think it's a good idea, I'm in no position to argue. >A further question is the glyph name. The fonts, which I >examined so far, use /Euro, rather than /Uni20AC. See, e.g., >the new Euro-enabled fonts from Linotype. (Some fonts use >/currency for the Euro symbol; they work with the existing >8r.enc and just need special treatment in fontinst.) My only comment is this: if we're sticking with English rules, it should be `euro', not `Euro'. >Finally, we have to agree on the name of the encoding and the name >of the .enc file. What about "TeXEuro1Encoding" and "8re.enc"? This sounds good to me. [snip] Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 13:20:54 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com (protactinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.176]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24800 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:20:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-4-104.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.4.104]) by protactinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16kWHs-0000Ao-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:20:52 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309094254.027a4188@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:18:30 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: ATM, Mac OS X, DPS and TeX Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id NAA24801 Berthold, I've had enough of trying to deal with your dreadful formatting. I give up. I'm afraid list readers will have to figure out the quoting themselves because I'm sick and tired of having to work to get round your antisocial email habits. Why don't you just tell your email program to stop sending html to the tex-fonts list? At 5:48 PM +0000 9/3/2002, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > At 19:52 3/4/2002 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > > > >> been built into the OS. MacOS X out-of-the-box can render Type 1 fonts, >>at least > >if given in LWFN format. > > Yep - absolutely (I suspect - but haven't checked - that it can use pfbs as > well; certainly MacOS 9.2.2 can use Truetype founts with the fount data > kept in the data fork Windoze-style, *providing* that you also have a FOND > resource to go with the fount file proper.  I suspect that pfbs work > similarly straightforwardly under MacOS X, perhaps more so) - MacOS X uses > Display PDF for screen drawing, although Apple's managed to cock it up > quite badly (there are encoding issues...) > > > As far as TeX is concerned, the important issue is whether the TeX > systems ported from Unix make any use of system support for > scalable fonts Completely poppycock. It's quite irrelevant where the TeX system is ported *from*, as you know; nor does it matter whether it's system support for scalable or fixed sized founts that is being used. Of course. > --- not as far as I know --- just as PC ports of TeX from > Unix do not use the system support for scalable fonts. I suggest that you try *using* a Macintosh implementation of TeX some day. OzTeX certainly makes use of system support for scalable and fixed founts, and I'm pretty sure that CMacTeX does too (although I've not investigated its dvi driver in detail and can't be bothered now). I'd be astonished if Textures didn't use MacOS fount drawing stuff. Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Mon Mar 11 16:32:31 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28821 for ; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:32:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-1-178-154.btinternet.com ([213.1.178.154] helo=[213.122.4.104]) by tungsten.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16kZHB-0002bd-00; Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:32:21 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3C8CC25B.AF6FED75@atlis.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303173306.027cd268@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020303080014.0276dc60@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200203031234.FAA24585@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:37:57 +0000 To: wadams@atlis.com, tex-fonts From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: ATM, Mac OS, Mac OS X (was Re: tfm used by dvips) At 2:42 PM +0000 11/3/2002, William Adams wrote: >Rowland said: >>4.6.2 *deluxe*? I thought the last version of ATM deluxe was 4.6.1? > >>(4.6.1 causes widespread crashing havoc on my G4 under 9.1 or 9.2.2. I > >>suppose I could mention that MacOS 9.0.4 and above have been the most >>atrociously unrealiable OSes I've ever had the misfortune to use) > >Mac OS 9 has been a godsend for me 'cause it finally gets the Mac past >its limit of 348 open files---do you run with virtual memory? Oh aye. > If not, >turn that on. Extensions? Turn off anything you can do without. I've got *more* turned off than I can do without. This flashy G4 Mac is a serious pain in the arse to use compared to the 68LC040 it's sat next to - but it is a touch quicker... > Mac OS 9 >isn't all that great, but at least it's better than Mac OS 8.6 Yeah, but it's worse than 7.6.1 from the point of view of reliability, efficiency, and user interface. >-- for >doing work involving large amounts of support files. (IME for any but >the simplest of projects, Mac OS 8 runs out of file handles just 'bout >when I'm getting going doing work). I suppose I'm fortunate that I don't do anything like that myself. >ATM 4.6.2 updater can be d/l'd by going to www.adobe.com, clicking on >``Support'', ``Select a Product'', ``Type Manager Deluxe'', ``ATM Deluxe >for Mac OS'' hmm.... belay that last. All that's there is 4.6.1---guess >4.6.2 must've gotten pulled. > >Ask Adobe 'bout it. The statement I've read is that ATM Deluxe 4.6.1 is *it* for that line - no further developments are being done, but ATM `straight' hasn't been dropped >From further development. > My copy of the installer is dated 5 June 2001. I'm >irritated at Adobe, so if they won't come through, let me know and I'll >post a copy for you to d/l. (ta) > 4.6.1 worked okay for me too though, so I >suspect it's a corrupted preference file, or something endemic to your >Mac's setup---have you tried all the standard Mac troubleshooting >voodoo? Yes. And I have exactly the same problem under 9.0.4, 9.1, 9.2.1, and 9.2.2 (all always installed clean generating clean prefs for pretty much everything and *certainly* ATM, which is installed afresh any time I do an OS upgrade) running with either the original firmware or update 4.2.8. Everything else you can think of has been done as well and if anyone so much as *mentions* a PRAM zap again... It's not my Mac's setup because I've changed that radically and in any case anything which crops up after a disc format and re-install the OS from clean and then add ATM only - well... >>But you say it works fine: one problem I've met with ATM 4.6.1 is that >it's >>not possible to switch off `preserve line spacing' - the switch appears >to >>work in the control panel, but unruly descenders still get clipped. >Does >>that work okay for you? > >Yes---how could anyone work without that? I couldn't... >I said: >>>The infamous Type 1 font scaler which doesn't scale fonts to the same >>>metrics as ATM, so causes re-flow in apps like Quark which rely upon >>>consistent font metrics. > >>Oh dear... Where do they get the metric data from in any case? > >The font as rasterized by the scaler--- What, so no kerning or anything like that? >I think you can get around it by >making bitmap fonts for _every_ size you use and setting ATM to favor >them, but haven't bothered to experiment, just always trash the Apple >scaler. What does that thing do? I've not turned it off because I've not been able to figure it out - the Extensions Mangler blurb is characteristically unhelpful (what the hell is an ATSUI application and do I need to care? - I suppose what I really want to know is how come Apple will tell developers what they need to know to write programs and tell cheese-heads what they need to know to stop worrying too much, but normal intelligent end users like me have to flounder along picking up tips from magazines and whatnot? Hmm. Can I still spell `rhetorical question'? I think I can.) Hmm. This does tend to imply that I might have more joy from ATM if I switched off the Apple Type 1 Scaler. Am I feeling brave? >I know it's bad of me, but I'm looking forward to the howls of anguish >when Quark 5 comes out, and pages are different depending upon whether >the app opens them in Classic or Carbon. I loathe Quark. Schadenfreuden. German's a lovely language. >>>Mac OS X's font scaling also handles hints funny, or at least the last > >>>time I looked closely at it it did (set a ``fi'' in Optima at 24 pt., >>>then switch to the ligature for that---see a funny curve?) > >>Not having MacOS X, I can't try that - but is that particular ligature >in >>Optima really worth the bother of designing it? Or do I have a funny >copy >>of Optima? > >It's just ``f'' and ``i'' set together, so no real need for it That's what I thought - it had me thinking there was something very odd going on because of the entry in the AFM ligtable for an `fi' and no clear difference between the ligature and two characters set next to each other. >---my >point is it's in there and it's munged. [snip] Fair enough. Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 13 03:15:34 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from hotmail.com (f79.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.79]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28597 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:15:33 -0700 (MST) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:15:03 -0800 Received: from 212.205.246.26 by lw4fd.law4.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:15:03 GMT X-Originating-IP: [212.205.246.26] From: "Hippocrates Sendoukas" To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: tex-fonts-request Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:15:03 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Mar 2002 10:15:03.0551 (UTC) FILETIME=[F0F3C0F0:01C1CA77] tex-fonts-request _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 13 04:16:33 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr (ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.238.117]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29177 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:16:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr (Switch-2.1.4/Switch-2.1.0/Configured by JE 06 12 2001) with ESMTP id g2DBFvo22202; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:15:58 +0100 (MET) Received: from euclide (euclide [193.48.255.207]) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08620; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:15:38 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:15:31 +0100 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1247144272.20020313121531@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: "Hippocrates Sendoukas" CC: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: tex-fonts-request In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le mercredi 13 mars 2002 à 11:15:03, je reçus de la part de Hippocrates Sendoukas le suivant message: HS> tex-fonts-request yes (\nu\alpha\iota) ? -- Thierry Bouche From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 13 06:37:18 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA00490 for ; Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:37:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203131337.GAA00490@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 23024 invoked by uid 101); 13 Mar 2002 13:37:14 -0000 Received: from pd902b8ac.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (217.2.184.172) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 13 Mar 2002 13:37:14 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Lars_Hellstr=F6m?=" Cc: "tex-fonts" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:37:13 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail/2 PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: successor to TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro Updated files 8r.enc and 8r.etx with support for /Euro as suggested are available from Please, give them a try! Are there any problems, when using them with existing fonts and metrics w/o Euro? I intend to include 8r.enc with the next release of PSNFSS, if it proves to be ok. As to 8r.etx, I suggest to update the fontinst distribution accordingly. happy TeXing Walter From tex-fonts-errors Tue Mar 26 07:59:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08868 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:59:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from trinity.warande.net (warande0147.warande.uu.nl [131.211.120.147]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2QExCr29467 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:59:12 +0100 Received: from camarena.trinity.warande.net ([10.10.10.11] helo=localhost) by trinity.warande.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Red Hat Linux)) id 16psPl-0005Zm-00 for ; Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:59:09 +0100 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:59:22 +0100 From: xander X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: xander Organization: TRiN!TY X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <163329283.20020326155922@trinity.warande.net> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Re: Hi,congratulations (was: windoze virus) In-Reply-To: <200203261158.MAA14416@bird2.de.uu.net> References: <200203261158.MAA14416@bird2.de.uu.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit duh. -- Best regards, xander mailto:xvw@trinity.warande.net Q What did the instructor at the school for Kamikaze pilots say to his students? A Watch closely. I'm only going to do this once. From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 03:03:33 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tungsten (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26591 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:03:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-30-81.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.30.81]) by tungsten with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16qAHC-0001NK-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:03:30 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:03:07 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: fontinst question Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id DAA26592 This question probably ought to be sent to the fontinst mailing list, but I've changed email address since I subscribed to that one *and* lost the information on how to subscribe. So for my first question: can anyone tell me how to subscribe to the fontinst mailing list? And for my second question, assuming that everyone subscribed to the fontinst list is subscribed to this one... I've just tried installing the Adobe part of the Univers family using fontinst 1.801. Using \latinfamily, punro8ac.afm punr8ac.afm punlo8ac.afm punl8ac.afm punbo8ac.afm punb8ac.afm get ignored. Is this appropriate? I can't help feeling that it'd make sense for \latinfamily to look out for condensed variants. But aside from that, when I try installing the above founts using: \installfonts % begin Univers condensed install \transformfont{punr8rc}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{punr8ac}}} \transformfont{punro8rc}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{punro8ac}}} \transformfont{punl8rc}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{punl8ac}}} \transformfont{punlo8rc}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{punlo8ac}}} \transformfont{punb8rc}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{punb8ac}}} \transformfont{punbo8rc}{\reencodefont{8r}{\fromafm{punbo8ac}}} \installfont {punr8tc} {punr8rc, latin} {T1} {t1} {pun}{mc}{n} {} \installfont {punr8tc} {punr8rc, latin} {OT1} {ot1} {pun}{mc}{n} {} \installfont {punr8tc} {punr8rc, latin} {T1c} {t1} {pun}{mc}{sc}{} \installfont {punr8tc} {punr8rc, latin} {OT1c} {ot1} {pun}{mc}{sc}{} \installfont {punr8tc} {punro8rc,latin} {T1} {t1} {pun}{mc}{sl}{} \installfont {punr8tc} {punro8rc,latin} {OT1} {ot1} {pun}{mc}{sl}{} \installfont {punl8tc} {punl8rc, latin} {T1} {t1} {pun}{lc}{n} {} \installfont {punl8tc} {punl8rc, latin} {OT1} {ot1} {pun}{lc}{n} {} \installfont {punl8tc} {punlo8rc,latin} {T1} {t1} {pun}{lc}{sl}{} \installfont {punl8tc} {punlo8rc,latin} {OT1} {ot1} {pun}{lc}{sl}{} \installfont {punb8tc} {punb8rc, latin} {T1} {t1} {pun}{bc}{n} {} \installfont {punb8tc} {punb8rc, latin} {OT1} {ot1} {pun}{bc}{n} {} \installfont {punb8tc} {punbo8rc,latin} {T1} {t1} {pun}{bc}{sl}{} \installfont {punb8tc} {punbo8rc,latin} {OT1} {ot1} {pun}{bc}{sl}{} % end Univers condensed install \endinstallfonts I get the expected pl and vpl files, but no fd files. What do I have to do to persuade it to write the required fd file entries? It strikes me that this ought to happen by default - if not, what *is* the point of the last 5 arguments to \installfont? Anyone got any thoughts? Cheers Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 03:40:17 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26843 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:40:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.137.13] (mariehemsv093.sn.umu.se [130.239.137.13]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA00708; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:32:01 +0100 (CET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:40:14 +0100 To: Rowland McDonnell From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: fontinst question Cc: "tex-fonts" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id DAA26844 At 11.03 +0100 2002-03-27, Rowland McDonnell wrote: >This question probably ought to be sent to the fontinst mailing list, but >I've changed email address since I subscribed to that one *and* lost the >information on how to subscribe. So for my first question: can anyone tell >me how to subscribe to the fontinst mailing list? In the fontinst v1.8 manual (by Alan Jeffrey and Rowland McDonnell [sic!]), it says: If you would like to be on the \texttt{fontinst} mailing list, please mail \url{fontinst-request@cogs.susx.ac.uk}. Mind you, posting on this list is not restricted to the list subscribers, so you could just as well have posted your question there. >And for my second question, assuming that everyone subscribed to the >fontinst list is subscribed to this one... > >I've just tried installing the Adobe part of the Univers family using >fontinst 1.801. Using \latinfamily, > >punro8ac.afm >punr8ac.afm >punlo8ac.afm >punl8ac.afm >punbo8ac.afm >punb8ac.afm > >get ignored. Is this appropriate? I can't help feeling that it'd make >sense for \latinfamily to look out for condensed variants. Looking for c widths is commented out in the definition of \latin_widths. I have no idea why; the last person who changed anything in that code was Ulrik Vieth. >But aside from that, when I try installing the above founts using: > >\installfonts >% begin Univers condensed install [snip] >% end Univers condensed install >\endinstallfonts > >I get the expected pl and vpl files, but no fd files. What do I have to do >to persuade it to write the required fd file entries? You have to say \installfamily{T1}{pun}{} \installfamily{OT1}{pun}{} >It strikes me that >this ought to happen by default - Good point! I'll see what I can do about it. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 03:56:26 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA26945 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:56:25 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203271056.DAA26945@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 20423 invoked by uid 101); 27 Mar 2002 10:56:23 -0000 Received: from pd902bae0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.186.224) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 27 Mar 2002 10:56:23 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "Rowland McDonnell" Cc: "tex-fonts" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:54:54 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: (Demonstration) PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontinst question On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:03:07 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: >So for my first question: can anyone tell >me how to subscribe to the fontinst mailing list? Send an email to ; it will be read by a human. >I've just tried installing the Adobe part of the Univers family using >fontinst 1.801. Using \latinfamily, > >punro8ac.afm >punr8ac.afm >punlo8ac.afm >punl8ac.afm >punbo8ac.afm >punb8ac.afm > >get ignored. Is this appropriate? I can't help feeling that it'd make >sense for \latinfamily to look out for condensed variants. \latinfamily wants condensed variants to be designated by "n", as opposed to "c", until you put the following into fontinst.rc: \def\latin_widths{ \latin_width{}{} % \latin_width{n}{c} \latin_width{c}{c} \latin_width{x}{x}} Maybe this should be documented in the fontinst guide :-) >>But aside from that, when I try installing the above founts using: >[...] > \installfont{punr8tc}{punr8rc,latin}{T1}{t1} {pun}{mc}{n}{} >[..] >I get the expected pl and vpl files, but no fd files. Maybe this works: \installfont{punr8tc}{punr8rc,latin}{t1}{T1}{pun}{mc}{n}{} I.e., the name of the encoding (T1) should be uppercased, matching the \installfamily command, whereas the name of the related t1.etx file should be lowercase (the latter being relevant on Unix systems only). HTH Walter -- Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 05:32:02 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from rhenium (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27927 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 05:32:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-25-25.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.25.25] helo=[213.1.165.170]) by rhenium with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16qCat-0000L1-01 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:32:00 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:31:42 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: fontinst question Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id FAA27928 (I've quoted two different replies in this email - I hope this doesn't cause confusion or offence) >In the fontinst v1.8 manual (by Alan Jeffrey and Rowland McDonnell [sic!]), >it says: > > If you would like to be on the > \texttt{fontinst} mailing list, please mail > \url{fontinst-request@cogs.susx.ac.uk}. Oh dear. It does, doesn't it? And it was me, not Alan, who added that bit. You realise you just lost a wonderful opportunity to say `RTFM' to the idiot who WTFM? [snip] >>I've just tried installing the Adobe part of the Univers family using >>fontinst 1.801. Using \latinfamily, >> >>punro8ac.afm >>punr8ac.afm >>punlo8ac.afm >>punl8ac.afm >>punbo8ac.afm >>punb8ac.afm >> >>get ignored. Is this appropriate? I can't help feeling that it'd make >>sense for \latinfamily to look out for condensed variants. > >\latinfamily wants condensed variants to be designated by "n", >as opposed to "c", until you put the following into fontinst.rc: Righto. Hmm. I see - so by default, fontinst looks for the `narrow' varient for the NFSS specifier `condensed'. Not that daft, but (as you point out) something that needs documenting. Hmm. A thought: would it make sense to have \latinfamily look for n *and* c for `condensed' by default? And if so, does fontinst allow this? >\def\latin_widths{ > \latin_width{}{} >% \latin_width{n}{c} > \latin_width{c}{c} > \latin_width{x}{x}} > > >Maybe this should be documented in the fontinst guide :-) > Quite possibly... My head's on a little straighter than it was and now I've got a 400MHz G4 superseding my old 25MHz 68LC040, I can do trial fontinst runs without having to make a cup of tea. There's a fighting chance I'll kick the fontinst manual in to better shape before the end of the year. And I might even read the bloody thing some day, eh? ;-) (for those who might be curious, I've got vast piles of notes about fontinst's operation, and these latest replies are being shoved there. What I need to do is play around some more and get a few more things about fontinst straight in my mind and *then* I can maybe re-write the manual some more; my hope is that all this help you've given *me* can be `saved for posterity' in a coherent manual. If my flaky brain lets me finish it, that is. I'm still very unreliable, I'm afraid.) >>>But aside from that, when I try installing the above founts using: >>[...] >> \installfont{punr8tc}{punr8rc,latin}{T1}{t1} {pun}{mc}{n}{} >>[..] > >>I get the expected pl and vpl files, but no fd files. > >Maybe this works: > > \installfont{punr8tc}{punr8rc,latin}{t1}{T1}{pun}{mc}{n}{} With the \installfamily commands added, it most certainly does. >I.e., the name of the encoding (T1) should be uppercased, matching >the \installfamily command, whereas the name of the related t1.etx >file should be lowercase (the latter being relevant on Unix systems >only). [snip] Ah - yes, that makes sense. What happened here was a mistake I made some years ago has propagated down the line to now. Well, I'm learning, and fontinst is beginning to make some sort of sense to me. But it does need one extra, as pointed out by Lars Hellström (and as I used to know - mind like a sieve, me): >You have to say > >\installfamily{T1}{pun}{} >\installfamily{OT1}{pun}{} And *then* it all works properly. Thanks very much to both Lars and Walter, Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 06:05:23 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from furon.ujf-grenoble.fr (furon.ujf-grenoble.fr [152.77.2.30]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28209 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:05:22 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by furon.ujf-grenoble.fr (Switch-2.1.4/Switch-2.1.0/Configured by JE 06 12 2001) with ESMTP id g2RD4d227171; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:04:39 +0100 (MET) Received: from euclide (euclide [193.48.255.207]) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.Fr (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13793; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:03:35 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:03:29 +0100 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <19213866979.20020327140329@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: Rowland McDonnell CC: "tex-fonts" Subject: Re[2]: fontinst question In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le mercredi 27 mars 2002 à 13:31:42, je reçus de la part de Rowland McDonnell le suivant message: RM> Hmm. A thought: would it make sense to have \latinfamily look for n *and* RM> c for `condensed' by default? And if so, does fontinst allow this? well... there was the idea in fontname that _n_ & _c_ are not equivalent (one is for a designed condensed version, and the other one for an automatically narrowed one [I may confuse which is which]). but this remark is probably irrelevant re the question above... -- Thierry Bouche From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 06:34:43 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tungsten (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28445 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:34:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-73-61.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.73.61]) by tungsten with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16qDZZ-0007LJ-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:34:41 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:10:04 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: fontinst question Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id GAA28446 [snip] >>>But aside from that, when I try installing the above founts using: >>[...] >> \installfont{punr8tc}{punr8rc,latin}{T1}{t1} {pun}{mc}{n}{} >>[..] > >>I get the expected pl and vpl files, but no fd files. > >Maybe this works: > > \installfont{punr8tc}{punr8rc,latin}{t1}{T1}{pun}{mc}{n}{} [snip] Now here's a thing. I've just looked at the log file kicked out by fontinst 1.801 in response to a \latinfamily command. It's full of lines like: \installfont If that first instance of `T1' ought to be `t1', might it be an idea to change what fontinst prints? And while I'm nit-picking: might it be an idea to change the output to indicate the contents of the last argument to the \installfont (and \installrawfont} command? Even if that argument is empty, I reckon it's worth doing to avoid confusing people (it just got me confused, y'see). Rowland. (beginning to understand how he got so confused about all this in the first place, and having spotted another stupidity in the original problem example he gave. Well, making your own mistakes is the best way of learning. I must be learning *loads*) From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 06:46:39 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA28558 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:46:38 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203271346.GAA28558@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 28708 invoked by uid 101); 27 Mar 2002 13:46:37 -0000 Received: from pd902b8b5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.184.181) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 27 Mar 2002 13:46:37 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:31 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: (Demonstration) PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 In-Reply-To: <19213866979.20020327140329@ujf-grenoble.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Re[2]: fontinst question On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:03:29 +0100, Thierry Bouche wrote: >well... there was the idea in fontname that _n_ & _c_ are not equivalent >(one is for a designed condensed version, and the other one for an >automatically narrowed one [I may confuse which is which]). Good idea -- in theory! In the KB fontname scheme, however, the ready-made (designed) Helvetica-Narrow is named "n", whereas the equally ready-made Frutiger-Condensed or Univers-Condensed are named "c". The KB scheme simply reflects the original names, and we are now stuck with it. -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 07:30:21 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from carbon (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28995 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:30:21 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-138-114.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.138.114] helo=[213.122.73.61]) by carbon with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16qERN-00035i-00; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:30:17 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19213866979.20020327140329@ujf-grenoble.fr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:40 +0000 To: Thierry Bouche From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re[2]: fontinst question Cc: "tex-fonts" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id HAA28996 At 1:03 PM +0000 27/3/2002, Thierry Bouche wrote: >Le mercredi 27 mars 2002 à 13:31:42, je reçus de la part de >Rowland McDonnell le suivant message: > > >RM> Hmm. A thought: would it make sense to have \latinfamily look for n *and* >RM> c for `condensed' by default? And if so, does fontinst allow this? > >well... there was the idea in fontname that _n_ & _c_ are not equivalent >(one is for a designed condensed version, and the other one for an >automatically narrowed one [I may confuse which is which]). > >but this remark is probably irrelevant re the question above... Possibly, but it's interesting data. In Adobe.map-by-name, there's: phvr8rn Helvetica-Narrow 0.5 hvn_____ phvr8rc Helvetica-Condensed 014 hvc_____ Clearly some founts are designed in both narrow and condensed versions. I'm not sure whether any of this gets anyone anywhere, but there you go. Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 08:55:10 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA00691 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:55:09 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200203271555.IAA00691@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 24444 invoked by uid 101); 27 Mar 2002 15:55:07 -0000 Received: from pd902bae3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.186.227) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 27 Mar 2002 15:55:07 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:52:50 +0100 (MEZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: fontinst question On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:10:04 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: >Now here's a thing. I've just looked at the log file kicked out by >fontinst 1.801 in response to a \latinfamily command. It's full of lines >like: > >\installfont > >If that first instance of `T1' ought to be `t1', might it be an idea to >change what fontinst prints? The first instance of `T1' refers to the file t1.etx; on a non-Unix system, the case does certainly not matter here. I'm not even sure whether uc/lc matters, as to the *second* instance of `T1'. I just suspected that this might have been the source of your problem, because I did not realize that you had forgotten the \installfamily commands altogether. I just thought that you forgot to include them in your message. -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 10:04:38 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02121 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:04:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA08022; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:04:29 +0100 (MET) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200203271555.IAA00691@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:04:30 +0100 To: "Walter Schmidt" From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: fontinst question Cc: "tex-fonts" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA02123 At 16.52 +0100 2002-03-27, Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:10:04 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > >>Now here's a thing. I've just looked at the log file kicked out by >>fontinst 1.801 in response to a \latinfamily command. It's full of lines >>like: >> >>\installfont >> >>If that first instance of `T1' ought to be `t1', might it be an idea to >>change what fontinst prints? > >The first instance of `T1' refers to the file t1.etx; >on a non-Unix system, the case does certainly not matter here. > >I'm not even sure whether uc/lc matters, as to the *second* >instance of `T1'. It matters! In the end it will all become the names of the fontdef tokens that LaTeX uses to switch fonts, and \T1/pun/m/n/10 is not the same token as \t1/pun/m/n/10. What would happen is that LaTeX would input t1pun.fd, hoping to get some font T1/pun/... defined, but that the file would instead define t1/pun/... The end result would probably be that LaTeX uses T1/cmr/m/n instead. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Wed Mar 27 12:49:32 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05563 for ; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:49:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from host213-122-32-54.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.32.54] helo=[213.122.73.61]) by tungsten.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16qJQH-00050M-01 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:49:30 +0000 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200203271555.IAA00691@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:31:31 +0000 To: "tex-fonts" From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: fontinst question At 3:52 PM +0000 27/3/2002, Walter Schmidt wrote: >On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:10:04 +0000, Rowland McDonnell wrote: > >>Now here's a thing. I've just looked at the log file kicked out by >>fontinst 1.801 in response to a \latinfamily command. It's full of lines >>like: >> >>\installfont >> >>If that first instance of `T1' ought to be `t1', might it be an idea to >>change what fontinst prints? > >The first instance of `T1' refers to the file t1.etx; >on a non-Unix system, the case does certainly not matter here. Righto. >I'm not even sure whether uc/lc matters, as to the *second* >instance of `T1'. It does - I tried it both ways. > I just suspected that this might have been >the source of your problem, because I did not realize that you >had forgotten the \installfamily commands altogether. I just >thought that you forgot to include them in your message. Well, they were in the file, near the top, but not executed (don't ask...). I'd been rather stupid, really. Mind you, the trouble I've just had means I've come across yet more curious behaviour from fontinst - I'll be taking a close peer at fount substitutions in a day or two because I'm not sure fontinst is doing sensible things. Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Sat Mar 30 13:53:01 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26560 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:53:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from turing.freelists.org (freelists-180.iquest.net [206.53.239.180]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g2UKqvr12495; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:52:57 +0100 Received: from turing.(none) (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (FreeLists Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C38B98448C; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:51:33 -0500 (EST) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list smart-sensors); Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:40:38 -0500 (EST) Delivered-To: smart-sensors@freelists.org Received: from IFSA (Dial212.UAR.Net [194.44.215.212]) by turing.freelists.org (FreeLists Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4F2B7841D2 for ; Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:22 -0500 (EST) From: "IFSA" To: Date: Sat, 30 Mar 02 12:06:52 FLE Standard Time Subject: [smart-sensors] IFSA Sensors Newsletter (30.03.02) X-Mailer: EMailing List Pro 3.1 Message-Id: <20020330100522.4F2B7841D2@turing.freelists.org> X-archive-position: 13 X-Approved-By: syurish@Omega.ICMP.Lviv.UA X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: smart-sensors-bounce@freelists.org Errors-To: smart-sensors-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: info@sensorsportal.com Precedence: normal Reply-To: info@sensorsportal.com X-list: smart-sensors ========================================================================= Welcome to Sensors Web Portal INTERNATIONAL FREQUENCY SENSORS ASSOCIATION (IFSA) NEWSLETTER http://www.sensorsportal.com March 30, 2002 ========================================================================= This monthly e-newsletter, written by the editors of Sensors & Transducers e-Digest, delivers the product and research news you asked for, and updates you on happenings in the sensor science and industry. 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Monthly Sensors Web Portal Up-date Briefs: NEWS: * New issue of Sensors & Transducers e-Digest, No.3, March 2002 is in DIGEST section with articles and products: 1) Data Acquisition and Signal Processing for Smart Sensors - New book. 320 pages, hardcover, John Willey & Sons, March 2002. 2) High Temperature Dynamic Pressure Transducers 3) MSP430 Ultra-Low-Power Microcontrollers for Intelligent Sensing 4) Three-Channel Signal Conditioner with Smart Capability 5) VibraCal Lite Automatic Accelerometer Calibration System Provides NIST Traceability 6) About Metrology -- Series 1 (http://www.sensorsportal.com/HTML/DIGEST/New_Digest.htm) Deadline for articles (up to 6 pages) and press releases (up to 2 pages) for the next issue of S&T e-Digest is 15 April 2002. * New BOOKSTORE web page with dozens new books on smart sensors and data acquisition (optical, chemical, automotive sensors and sensors for robots) UP-DATED: * TEMPERATURE, GAS, ROTATION SPEED and OTHERS sensors sections (new articles); * Lists of Manufacturers for PRESSURE, FLOW and ULTRASONIC sensors (mainly smart sensors); * TRAINING COURSES (A four-day advanced engineering EUROPRACTICE course 'Smart Sensor Systems') awarded the Quality Label by the European Commission's EuroTraining programme, organized by Delft Institute of Microelectronics and Submicron Technology (DIMES) and Delft University of Technology, The Netherlands, 27-30 May, 2002). (http://ei.its.tudelft.nl/courses/smart_sensor_systems/overview.htm) * LINKS Do not miss main sensors events in the USA: Sensors Expo Spring conference (May 20-23, 2002) and exhibition (May 21-23, 2002) in Silicon Valley capital - San Jose , California, USA: (http://www.sensorsmag.com/expo/spring02/index.shtml) * STANDARDIZATION section (Overview of the Fieldbuses Standards (the link)) * MEMBERS section * SENSORS WISH LIST with new inquires * There are new contents of 'Sensors and Actuators' (A: Physical and B:Chemical) journals with access to abstracts of articles ========================================================================= II. Submit your web site URL for free testing. Would you like to know how much is your web site High Quality Rating Score (QRS) ? Submit your web site URL by e-mail: info@sensorsportal.com for free testing. CURRENT PORTAL'S STATISTICS: 8.1 Gb bandwidth used; 1 359 872 hits; 282 624 page views. Interested to be in Lists of Manufacturers ? 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Alternatively, you can visit http://www.sensorsportal.com/HTML/Nospam.htm and click (enable Java applet option required). If you cannot unsubscribe, the most common reason is that you receive our newsletter at one email address and are trying to unsubscribe from another (33 % persons who ask about unsubscribtion do it). You can still remove yourself from our list send us e-mail for personal assistance. This message is in full compliance with U.S. Federal requirements for commercial email under senate bill 1618, Title 3 Section 301. Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S.1618, Passed by Senate, May 12, 1998. as well as all federal and state laws regarding email messages including the California Business and Professions Code 17538.4 as amended by Assembly Bill 1676 (1998) (approved by Governor, September 26, 1998) and cannot be considered as SPAM since it includes a remove mechanism (at least 2 possibilities plus personal assistance in case of any problem) as well as the real contact information and LIST owner address. With best regards, Prof., Dr. Sergey Y. Yurish, Vice President -------------------------------------------------------------- International Frequency Sensor Association (IFSA) European Office: Bandera str., 12 79008, Lviv, UA Tel./fax: +380 322 970045 E-mail: info@sensorsportal.com Http://www.sensorsportal.com - End - From tex-fonts-errors Mon Apr 1 09:55:31 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from suncore.math.utah.edu (IDENT:xjXzoiP2B/VEvO5ACpmka6MNnzLj1syi@suncore0.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15316; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:55:31 -0700 (MST) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by suncore.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08852; Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:55:30 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:55:30 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@sunshine.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: New font Web site Message-ID: Some of you may be interested in visiting this Web site, whose existence was brought to my attention by a posting on the unicode list this morning: http://www.fontcraft.com/ Don't be put off by the initial page, which shows pictures of a different kind of font: instead, follow the links from the selection button at the upper right, e.g., to some very nice color displays of fonts from the Book of Kells (in the library at Trinity College in Dublin, Ireland: I certainly enjoyed our visit there several years ago). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 4 04:28:29 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA08910 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 04:28:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 12448 invoked by uid 101); 4 Apr 2002 11:28:25 -0000 Received: from pd902b881.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.184.129) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 4 Apr 2002 11:28:25 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 13:17:51 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: "fontname" codes for the Luxi fonts Hi, the latest release of XFree (4.2.0; Jan. 2002) includes three interesting typeface families: LuxiSerif, LuxiSans and LuxiMono. I am going to provide TeX metrics and VFs for, at least, LuxiMono, so i'd like to register them with the fontname scheme: As to the typface family codes I suggest: l7 LuxiSerif l8 LuxiSans l9 LuxiMono [ BTW, we are almost running out of codes with the letter "l" now! ] The supplier is URW, so the codes for the individual fonts, together with the original file names are: ul7r8a LuxiSerif l049013t ul7b8a LuxiSerif-Bold l049016t ul7ro8a LuxiSerif-Oblique l049033t ul7bo8a LuxiSerif-BoldOblique l049036t ul8r8a LuxiSans l048013t ul8b8a LuxiSans-Bold l048016t ul8ro8a LuxiSans-Oblique l048033t ul8bo8a LuxiSans-BoldOblique l048036t ul9r8a LuxiMono l047013t ul9b8a LuxiMono-Bold l047016t ul9ro8a LuxiMono-Oblique l047033t ul9bo8a LuxiMono-BoldOblique l047036t Actually, the Luxi fonts are sort of "Lucida Condensed", but I think we should not put them in the Lucida families (lh, ls, lc), because this might clash with a possible future release of an official "Lucida Condensed" best wishes Walter -- Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 4 07:42:07 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from f7.net (consort.superb.net [209.61.216.22]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10726 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:42:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from karl@localhost) by f7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g34Eev822433; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:40:57 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 09:40:57 -0500 Message-Id: <200204041440.g34Eev822433@f7.net> From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: was@VR-Web.de Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: "fontname" codes for the Luxi fonts l7 LuxiSerif l8 LuxiSans l9 LuxiMono Sounds good to me. And it's great that the fonts are available. I changed typeface.map (http://tug.org/fontname/typeface.map). [ BTW, we are almost running out of codes with the letter "l" now! ] We already ran out of s's ... Thanks, k From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 4 07:46:23 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from smtp.localnet.com (smtp.localnet.com [207.251.201.46]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA10773 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 07:46:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 3612 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2002 14:46:10 -0000 Received: from ppp33.pm3-11.buf-ch.ny.localnet.com (HELO lugabout.jhcloos.org) (207.251.195.97) by smtp.localnet.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2002 14:46:10 -0000 Received: from lugabout.jhcloos.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugabout.jhcloos.org (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386)) with ESMTP id 52AF410160; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:46:08 +0000 (GMT) To: "Walter Schmidt" Cc: "tex-fonts" Subject: Re: "fontname" codes for the Luxi fonts References: <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> From: "James H. Cloos Jr." In-Reply-To: <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Date: 04 Apr 2002 09:46:08 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 20 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id HAA10774 >>>>> "Walter" == Walter Schmidt writes: Walter> Hi, the latest release of XFree (4.2.0; Jan. 2002) includes Walter> three interesting typeface families: LuxiSerif, LuxiSans and Walter> LuxiMono. ... Walter> The supplier is URW, Actually, I beleive URW only did the instructing (aka hinting) for these fonts. B&H own the TM and the C on the outlines. Also, the XLFD for those fonts has b&h as the vendor. So it should be h.... rather than u.... for the Berry names. BTW, the metrics for Luxi were intended AIUI to closely match a certain set of popular fonts¹ but more legible on screen. -JimC ¹ Times/Helvetica/Courier, I presume. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 4 10:13:38 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13340 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:13:37 -0700 (MST) Received: from sdn-ar-003casfrmp014.dialsprint.net ([158.252.210.16] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16tAnl-0001Mj-00; Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:13:34 -0800 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020404073343.0577eea8@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 09:13:01 -0800 To: "James H. Cloos Jr." , "Walter Schmidt" From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: "fontname" codes for the Luxi fonts Cc: "tex-fonts" In-Reply-To: References: <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_327477197==_.ALT" --=====================_327477197==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 09:46 4/4/2002 -0500, James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: > >>>>> "Walter" =3D=3D Walter Schmidt writes: > >Walter> Hi, the latest release of XFree (4.2.0; Jan. 2002) includes >Walter> three interesting typeface families: LuxiSerif, LuxiSans and >Walter> LuxiMono. >... >Walter> The supplier is URW, > >Actually, I beleive URW only did the instructing (aka hinting) for >these fonts. Actually, Y&Y did the original hinting and "instructing" on the Luxi typefaces :-) >B&H own the TM and the C on the outlines. Also, the >XLFD for those fonts has b&h as the vendor. > >So it should be h.... rather than u.... for the Berry names. > >BTW, the metrics for Luxi were intended AIUI to closely match a >certain set of popular fonts=B9 but more legible on screen. > >-JimC > >=B9 Times/Helvetica/Courier, I presume. Yup. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph = (BK) --=====================_327477197==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 09:46 4/4/2002 -0500, James H. Cloos Jr. wrote:

>>>>> "Walter" =3D=3D Walter Schmidt <was@VR-Web.de> writes:

Walter> Hi, the latest release of XFree (4.2.0; Jan.  2002) includes
Walter> three interesting typeface families: LuxiSerif, LuxiSans and
Walter> LuxiMono.
...
Walter> The supplier is URW,

Actually, I beleive URW only did the instructing (aka hinting) for
these fonts. 

Actually, Y&Y did the original hinting and "instructing"
on the Luxi typefaces :-)

B&H own the TM and the C on th= e outlines.  Also, the
XLFD for those fonts has b&h as the vendor.

So it should be h.... rather than u.... for the Berry names.

BTW, the metrics for Luxi were intended AIUI to closely match a
certain set of popular fonts=B9 but more legible on screen.

-JimC

=B9 Times/Helvetica/Courier, I presume.

Yup.

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu= http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_327477197==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 4 10:27:00 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA13664 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:26:59 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <200204041726.KAA13664@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 26977 invoked by uid 101); 4 Apr 2002 17:26:57 -0000 Received: from pd902bcf0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.188.240) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 4 Apr 2002 17:26:57 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 19:25:55 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: Re: "fontname" codes for the Luxi fonts Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA13667 On 04 Apr 2002 09:46:08 -0500, James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: >Actually, I beleive URW only did the instructing (aka hinting) for >these fonts. B&H own the TM and the C on the outlines. > >So it should be h.... rather than u.... for the Berry names. I also thought about f for "free" :-) The font files were "physically" supplied by URW, that's why I chose u. > Also, the XLFD for those fonts has b&h as the vendor. Sigh... I didn't know that. (I didn't install XFree; I just took out the fonts.) Does it actually matter >From a technical point of view? >BTW, the metrics for Luxi were intended AIUI to closely match a >certain set of popular fonts¹ but more legible on screen.[...] >¹ Times/Helvetica/Courier, I presume. On screen, maybe. In print, however, LuxiSerif and LuxiSans look extremely narrow and are suitable for special purposes only. LuxiMono, in contrast, is a general-purpose typewriter font and blends well with "strong" typefaces such as Palatino or Charter. So far, no such font was available for free. -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 4 11:36:25 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from smtp.localnet.com (smtp.localnet.com [207.251.201.46]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15466 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:36:24 -0700 (MST) Received: (qmail 5679 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2002 18:36:17 -0000 Received: from ppp85.tc-1.buf-ch.ny.localnet.com (HELO lugabout.jhcloos.org) (207.251.220.85) by smtp.localnet.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2002 18:36:17 -0000 Received: from lugabout.jhcloos.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugabout.jhcloos.org (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386)) with ESMTP id E840510160; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 18:36:07 +0000 (GMT) To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Cc: "Walter Schmidt" , "tex-fonts" Subject: Re: "fontname" codes for the Luxi fonts References: <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020404073343.0577eea8@mail.ai.mit.edu> From: "James H. Cloos Jr." In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020404073343.0577eea8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Date: 04 Apr 2002 13:36:07 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 20 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "Berthold" == Berthold K P Horn writes: /me> I beleive URW only did the instructing (aka hinting) for these fonts. Berthold> Y&Y did the original hinting and "instructing" on the Luxi typefaces :-) Good to know. The copyright info, though, says: (example from Luxi Mono's afm) Comment Copyright Copyright (c) 2001 by Bigelow & Holmes Inc. Instructions copyright (c) 2001 by URW++. Notice Copyright (c) 2001 by Bigelow & Holmes Inc. Instructions copyright (c) 2001 by URW++. (yes, complete with the double Copyright Copyright. :) The ttf version have essentially the same two copyright claims. FWIW. -JimC From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 4 12:10:05 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (relay2.EECS.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.60.28]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16092 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:10:04 -0700 (MST) Received: from relay3.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by relay2.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27072 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from sabre1.ai.mit.edu (dhcp-45-69.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.45.69]) by relay3.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06508; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:10:01 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020404105946.02255948@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 11:09:53 -0800 To: "James H. Cloos Jr." From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: "fontname" codes for the Luxi fonts Cc: "Walter Schmidt" , "tex-fonts" In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020404073343.0577eea8@mail.ai.mit.edu> <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <200204041128.EAA08910@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020404073343.0577eea8@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:36 PM 4/4/2002 -0500, James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: >>>>>> "Berthold" == Berthold K P Horn writes: > >/me> I beleive URW only did the instructing (aka hinting) for these fonts. > >Berthold> Y&Y did the original hinting and "instructing" on the Luxi typefaces :-) > >Good to know. The copyright info, though, says: (example from Luxi Mono's afm) > >Comment Copyright Copyright (c) 2001 by Bigelow & Holmes Inc. Instructions copyright (c) 2001 by URW++. >Notice Copyright (c) 2001 by Bigelow & Holmes Inc. Instructions copyright (c) 2001 by URW++. > >(yes, complete with the double Copyright Copyright. :) > >The ttf version have essentially the same two copyright claims. The TTF versions were hinted either by MonoType or URW. The Type 1 versions were done by Y&Y, but that may not reflect in any copyright string anymore since they may have pumped them through some font monging software of their own. The fonts have gone through a number of minor transformation since B&H first made them for XFree. >FWIW. -JimC -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (MT) From tex-fonts-errors Wed Apr 10 05:08:20 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA17906 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 05:08:19 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200204101108.FAA17906@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 23940 invoked by uid 101); 10 Apr 2002 11:08:16 -0000 Received: from pd902b8cb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.184.203) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 10 Apr 2002 11:08:16 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:06:19 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: PSNFSS version 9 -- test release Hi, a pre-release of PSNFSS version 9 is available for public testing: Comments are welcome! Please, reply to the tex-fonts mailing list, if possible. The ZIP archive v9b1.zip includes all files, that have been changed over release 8.2. The archive is arranged in a TDS-compliant manner, so that it can be unpacked immediately in the texmf directory. Note that the existing font map files are unchanged. * * Install this archive over the current release 8.2 only! * Do NOT install over version 8.1 or 7.x! * * The archive includes an updated file dvips/psnfss/8r.enc. * Please, make sure that there is not further (obsolete) * copy of 8r.enc in any other directory below texmf/dvips ! * What's new? dvips/psnfss/8r.enc vtex/enc/8r.enc The TeXBase1Encoding includes the Euro symbol in slot 128 now. Thus, future fonts, which provide the Euro, can be supported. This does, however, NOT affect the present Base35, Charter and Utopia fonts. See the recent discussion on the tex-fonts mailing list with the subject "successor to TeXBase1Encoding with /Euro". The related 8r.etx file for use with fontinst is available separately: . fonts/type1/public/pazo/* fonts/afm/public/pazo/* fonts/inf/public/pazo/* fonts/tfm/public/pazo/* fonts/vf/public/pazo/* Pazo math fonts (by Diego Puga): The Pazo Blackboard Bold math alphabet provides all uppercase letters and the digit 1 now. The shapes of the letters \Phi and \varsigma were improved. In consequence, the letters \xi and \zeta changed, too. Note that the metrics of the \Phi have changed, so there is actually a slight incompatibility with the previous release. fonts/tfm/adobe/palatino/ppl*8c.tfm fonts/vf/adobe/palatino/ppl*8c.vf Palatino text fonts: The textcompanion fonts of the Palatino family provide the Euro symbol \texteuro as well as the Omega \textohm now. The letters are actually taken from the Pazo fonts. Despite the changed font metrics, there should be no problems with existing documents, which do not use these symbols. Note that this has nothing to do with the changed 8r.enc! happy TeXing Walter Schmidt -- Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany From tex-fonts-errors Wed Apr 10 16:56:25 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from smtp.localnet.com (signup.localnet.com [207.251.201.46]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02348 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:56:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 1497 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2002 22:55:53 -0000 Received: from ppp476.tc-1.buf-ch.ny.localnet.com (HELO lugabout.jhcloos.org) (207.251.222.222) by smtp.localnet.com with SMTP; 10 Apr 2002 22:55:53 -0000 Received: from lugabout.jhcloos.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugabout.jhcloos.org (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386)) with ESMTP id AB72B10175 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:56:10 +0000 (GMT) To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Optical size in fontname From: "James H. Cloos Jr." Date: 10 Apr 2002 18:56:10 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Does anyone have any thoughts on berry names for fonts with multiple named design sizes, where each design is recommended for a certain range of point sizes, but the specific design point size is not specified? Options include a mean (arith, geo, higher order?) of the recommended range, the median of that range, an alpha abbreviation of the design name, .... (An example is Adobe's otf opticals with Caption, '', Subhead and Display designs.) -JimC From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 11 06:40:24 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.umu.se (custer.umdac.umu.se [130.239.8.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11665 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.20.144] (mac144.math.umu.se [130.239.20.144]) by mail.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA21029; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:40:18 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:40:11 +0200 To: "James H. Cloos Jr." From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: Optical size in fontname Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id GAA11666 At 00.56 +0200 2002-04-11, James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: >Does anyone have any thoughts on berry names for fonts with multiple >named design sizes, where each design is recommended for a certain >range of point sizes, but the specific design point size is not >specified? > >Options include a mean (arith, geo, higher order?) of the recommended >range, the median of that range, an alpha abbreviation of the design >name, .... Given the old (and not that well motivated) TeX/MF tradition of taking the design sizes of fonts from a geometric progression (that is given some support by the choice of sizes for which there are standard LaTeX size-changing commands), I would suspect that the least confusing method is to take as "design size" the geometric mean of the endpoints of the ranges, rounded to the nearest integer. For a 8--13pt font this would give a "design size" of 10, since $\sqrt{8 \cdot 13} \approx 10.2$. On the other hand it probably wouldn't matter that much which method one chooses, since most reasonable methods would probably tend to produce identical results most of the time. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 11 08:04:49 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12690 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from boole.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id ; 11 Apr 2002 15:04:47 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:04:47 +0100 From: Timothy Murphy To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Optical size in fontname Message-ID: <20020411140446.GD74744@boole.maths.tcd.ie> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie > At 00.56 +0200 2002-04-11, James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: > >Does anyone have any thoughts on berry names for fonts with multiple > >named design sizes, I know Karl did trojan work for TeX in keeping the web2c flame alight for many years. But isn't the Berry naming scheme really obsolete? To start with, surely DOS has gone, and with it the idea of compressing file-names to 8 characters. My feeling, from reading comp.text.tex, is that the Berry font naming system is one of those things that LaTeX newbies find very off-putting. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie tel: 086-233 6090 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 11 08:35:30 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from f7.net (consort.superb.net [209.61.216.22]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13220 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:35:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from karl@localhost) by f7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g3BEXjP03920; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:33:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:33:45 -0400 Message-Id: <200204111433.g3BEXjP03920@f7.net> From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: tim@maths.tcd.ie Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Optical size in fontname But isn't the Berry naming scheme really obsolete? It was close to obsolete when I invented it 10 years ago :). In Web2c, I distributed font mapping files that made it possible to use the PostScript FontName of the fonts (the logical alternative, IMHO). I don't think they've ever caught on, though. Do the standard LaTeX packages use other names to search for fonts? Until that happens, I doubt any other naming scheme can make headway. As for DOS -- people do still use it. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 11 08:41:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from moutng1.kundenserver.de (moutng1.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13333 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 08:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [195.20.224.219] (helo=mrvdom03.kundenserver.de) by moutng1.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 16vflA-0006i8-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:41:12 +0200 Received: from [217.80.42.32] (helo=DOMINUS) by mrvdom03.kundenserver.de with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16vflA-00044F-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:41:12 +0200 Reply-To: From: "Ulrich Dirr" To: Subject: RE: Optical size in fontname Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:46:33 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 In-Reply-To: <20020411140446.GD74744@boole.maths.tcd.ie> > I know Karl did trojan work for TeX > in keeping the web2c flame alight for many years. > But isn't the Berry naming scheme really obsolete? > > To start with, surely DOS has gone, and with it > the idea of compressing file-names to 8 characters. > > My feeling, from reading comp.text.tex, > is that the Berry font naming system > is one of those things that LaTeX newbies > find very off-putting. and not only newbies ;-) From tex-fonts-errors Sun Apr 14 00:36:11 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from cheetah.mail.utk.edu (IDENT:root@cheetah.mail.utk.edu [160.36.178.61]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26431 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 00:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by cheetah.mail.utk.edu (8.12.1/8.12.1) id g3E6aAmi014725; Sun, 14 Apr 2002 02:36:10 -0400 Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 02:36:10 -0400 From: postmaster@smtp.utk.edu Message-Id: <200204140636.g3E6aAmi014725@cheetah.mail.utk.edu> To: Subject: VIRUS IN MAIL FOR YOU FROM A virus-infected attachment in a message sent to you from was detected by the campus central mail servers. Delivery of that message has been blocked. If you know the sender, you may want to contact the sender and have the message re-sent after cleaning the virus. If you have questions, please contact the HelpDesk. Details: 'W32/Klez-E' 'W32/Klez-E' From tex-fonts-errors Mon Apr 15 12:47:09 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15341 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 2002 12:47:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200204151847.MAA15341@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 7306 invoked by uid 101); 15 Apr 2002 18:47:02 -0000 Received: from pd902b8d3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.184.211) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 15 Apr 2002 18:47:02 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 20:46:47 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: PSNFSS version 9 -- test release Hi, in addition to v9b1.zip, I have provided a further archive file now. The ZIP archive includes the updated documentation and some other files, that have changed over PSNFSS 8.2. The contents of v9b1.zip is still entirely valid. Thus, v9b1.zip and v9b2.zip together include *everything* needed to update PSNFSS to version 9 (except for the final installation instructions, file 00readme.txt. NB: This is a pre-release, and I do not promise that it is already stable. All I can say, is, that I did not receive any complaints so far. What's new? tex/latex/psnfss/*.sty source/latex/psnfss/psfonts.dtx The undocumented command \ppljeuro has been removed from mathpazo.sty. All .sty files show the new version number 9..0. doc/latex/psnfss/psnfss2e.pdf source/latex/psnfss/psnfss2e.tex Updated and slightly improved documentation. best wishes Walter Schmidt From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 18 04:37:46 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA08741 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 2002 04:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200204181037.EAA08741@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 3687 invoked by uid 101); 18 Apr 2002 10:37:43 -0000 Received: from pd902baf7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.186.247) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 18 Apr 2002 10:37:43 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:13:59 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: hyphen appears twice in 8r.enc -- why? On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:41:56 -0800, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >>The reason behind my question is: There is a bug in recent >>versions of Ghostscript, which is triggered by the "double" >>hyphen [...] > >Oh no. Problems with "repeat encoding" have periodically >plagued commercial software like Adobe Illustrator. Too bad >such bad habits are now being duplicated elsewhere... FYI: The Ghostscript bug can be fixed easily by patching the file pdf_font.ps, which resides in the /lib directory of GS 7.04. This is explained in: best wishes Walter From tex-fonts-errors Wed Apr 24 07:05:46 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA17275 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200204241305.HAA17275@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 31956 invoked by uid 101); 24 Apr 2002 13:05:43 -0000 Received: from pd902baa1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.186.161) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 24 Apr 2002 13:05:43 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:05:07 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: PSNFSS version 9 -- test release Hi, there has been one more change to the test release of PSNFSS version 9: I finally managed to implement a decent \hbar symbol for the mathptmx.sty package. Many apologies for this last-minute change, but I think that the fix is quite useful. (Credits to FMi -- the new code is "borrowed" from his mathtime.sty!) Furthermore, the ready-made documentation psnfss2e.pdf comes with all fonts embedded now, so that the font samples will always show the intended result. There is a new archive file v9b3.zip in the directory which includes all files that have changed over v8.2. Please, read the file readme.1st, too. best wishes Walter Schmidt From tex-fonts-errors Wed Apr 24 08:38:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18951 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:38:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200204241438.IAA18951@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 1117 invoked by uid 101); 24 Apr 2002 14:38:13 -0000 Received: from pd902baa2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.186.162) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 24 Apr 2002 14:38:13 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:36:50 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 In-Reply-To: <200204241305.HAA17275@sunshine.math.utah.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: PSNFSS version 9 -- test release FYI: Diego Puga has just told me that there will be a further change to the Pazo Blackboard Bold fonts next week or so. Fortunately, the font metrics will not change once again. -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 25 09:29:36 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from trinity.warande.net (warande0147.warande.uu.nl [131.211.120.147]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10699 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from camarena.trinity.warande.net ([10.10.10.11] helo=camarena) by trinity.warande.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Red Hat Linux)) id 170lBb-0007dM-00 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:29:31 +0200 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:29:29 +0200 From: xander X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60c) Reply-To: xander Organization: TRiN!TY X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1331667788.20020425172929@trinity.warande.net> To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: adjusting height of sans serif to match serif MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, When I pick a serif font (e.g. caslon) and a sans serif font (e.g. gill sans) the heights of both fonts differ. Now, my original purpose was to create a nice-looking, easily readable document but I end up with a document that looks like it came straight out of kindergarten :) Especially when I put two words next to each other typesetted in resp. serif and sans serif. How do I scale down the sans serif font to match the size of the serif font? Preferably not in the .fd file, since altering the serif font would require me to modify the .fd font again.. so I'm looking for something like a scale function in TeX I suppose? Thanks in advance, xander van wiggen -- xander van wiggen mailto:xvw@trinity.warande.net If you were a booger, I'd pick you first. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 25 11:30:13 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ermis.ascsa.edu.gr (ermis.ascsa.edu.gr [194.219.92.204]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13254 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:30:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200204251730.LAA13254@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: from PMACKAY ([10.0.0.160]) by ermis.ascsa.edu.gr with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id JRLG5BXT; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:30:44 +0300 X-Sender: pmackay@10.0.0.4 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:57:30 +0300 To: xander From: "Pierre A. MacKay" Subject: Re: adjusting height of sans serif to match serif Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <1331667788.20020425172929@trinity.warande.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id LAA13255 At 05:29 ìì 25/4/2002 +0200, you wrote: > > Hi all, > > When I pick a serif font (e.g. caslon) and a sans serif font > (e.g. gill sans) the heights of both fonts differ. > > Now, my original purpose was to create a nice-looking, easily readable > document but I end up with a document that looks like it came straight > out of kindergarten :) Especially when I put two words next to each other > typesetted in resp. serif and sans serif. Please take this in the helpful spirit intended, but the answer to your problem is what is known as "design." There are very few pairs of serif and sans serif fonts that work together. There is no reason at all why Gill Sans and Caslon should harmonize. Caslon represents the taste (and, if it is faithfully done, the technology) of the early 18th century at the latest, and Gill the 20s of the twentieth century. There were certain foundries in the middle of the last century (ITC is the most awful example) which tried to make all fonts into the same porridgy slop by boosting the x-height of classical fonts and lowering the ascenders so that everything would look like a fussy modification of AvantGarde, but there is some reason to hope that this habit is now out of date. If you want to mix seriffed and sans serif types, get a font book and study the proportions of the various offerings, preferably with someone who has done a little design at your side. I don't imagine that such a person would ever be likely to suggest that you start with a Caslon if you want to intermingle it with a sans serif---at least not with a well-designed Caslon. They come from two so radically different worlds that the effect is almost certain to be more bizarre than anything else. Designers like Chuck Bigelow, who recognize the requirements of modern publication and the limits of modern technology have given the idea some careful thought, and if you use something out of the Lucida family you may well find your problem goes away. Otherwise, your sans-serif will always look, as Parkinson once put it, like a short sharp anchovy in a strawberry ice. Pierre MacKay From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 25 11:57:12 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from roc-smtp-sun.choiceone.net (roc-smtp-sun.choiceone.net [64.65.208.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13855 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8001 invoked by uid 10602); 25 Apr 2002 17:56:57 -0000 Received: from wadams@atlis.com by roc-smtp-sun by uid 10599 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.40/v4198. . Clear:0. Processed in 1.392407 secs); 25 Apr 2002 17:56:57 -0000 Received: from host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net (HELO atlis.com) (216.153.178.55) by 0 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2002 17:56:55 -0000 Message-ID: <3CC84366.27FC80A9@atlis.com> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:56:44 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: adjusting height of sans serif to match serif References: <200204251730.LAA13254@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pierre McKay said: >Designers like Chuck Bigelow, who recognize the >requirements of modern publication and the limits of modern technology have >given the idea some careful thought, and if you use something out of the >Lucida >family you may well find your problem goes away. Excellent advice! For those curious about the Lucida family, I host a brief .txt file on it written by Dr. Bigelow and Ms. Holmes (MS had it up back when they did the MS TrueType Font Pack Vol. 1, but it's since dissappeared from their ftp site, 'least-wise I can't find it) on my personal web pages at http://members.aol.com/willadams --- listed in the bibliography. Y&Y is the canonical vendor for such fonts, www.yandy.com There has been some effort in for example psnfss to harmonize disparate fonts though, so one might study such packages to one's benefit. William -- William Adams, publishing specialist ATLIS Graphics & Design / 717-731-6707 voice / 717-731-6708 fax Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. http://www.atlis.com From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 25 14:09:38 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from postfix3-2.free.fr (postfix3-2.free.fr [213.228.0.169]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16986 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:09:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from varese (grenoble-1-a7-62-147-73-187.dial.proxad.net [62.147.73.187]) by postfix3-2.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5061864C for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:09:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:09:34 +0200 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Reply-To: Thierry Bouche Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <874235940.20020425220934@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re[2]: adjusting height of sans serif to match serif In-Reply-To: <200204251730.LAA13254@sunshine.math.utah.edu> References: <200204251730.LAA13254@sunshine.math.utah.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le jeudi 25 avril 2002, à 18:57:30, Pierre MacKay écrivit : PAM> Please take this in the helpful spirit intended, but the answer to PAM> your problem is what is known as "design." There are very few pairs PAM> of serif and sans serif fonts that work together. There is no PAM> reason at all why Gill Sans and Caslon should harmonize. Caslon PAM> represents the taste (and, if it is faithfully done, the PAM> technology) of the early 18th century at the latest, and Gill the PAM> 20s of the twentieth century. this is a quite questionable answer. If you go on this way, why simply should you need Sans serif & Sans to go on the same text flow? Aren't italics, semibold and small caps quite enough to introduce a basic markup that could already overload the reader's buffer? On the other hand, if for some reason you want it, then quite many pairs are available for testing. I assume that, if you want it, it's precisely because you want some more contrast than what the usual variants provide, then the inevitable mismatch in color and design can be regarded a _feature_ of the design decision. Gill Sans is not so different from Caslon in its general architecture & proportions, it may work better with Plantin, though... A classical pair is Garamond or similar designs with Syntax; another one is Minion/Cronos (or Today Sans). Now, regarding Lucida and other super packs, (Scala, Le Monde...), you may precisely be disappointed by the low contrast and too high similarity of design: they work well in a newspaper design where you will set two articles with different parameters next to the other, so that the reader's eye won't be confused in which column to follow the text. If you mix them on a line, you may fail to notice the type change... I'm anyway quite amazed that, after what you say about ITC horrors with enormous x-heights, you may favor Lucida! -- Cordialement, Thierry From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 25 14:09:58 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from europa.commercehub.com (europa.commercehub.com [12.107.130.25]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17000 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from commercehub.com ([10.10.10.89]) by europa.commercehub.com (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.6) with ESMTP id 2002042516092575:48873 ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:09:25 -0400 Message-ID: <3CC86273.A4E1619B@commercehub.com> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:09:23 -0400 From: Michael Malak X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: xander CC: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: adjusting height of sans serif to match serif References: <1331667788.20020425172929@trinity.warande.net> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on europa/Commercehub(Release 5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 04/25/2002 04:09:25 PM, Serialize by Router on europa/Commercehub(Release 5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 04/25/2002 04:09:57 PM, Serialize complete at 04/25/2002 04:09:57 PM Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm going to ignore questions of design here, and assume that you have found serif and sans-serif fonts that would go well together if the sans were scaled down a bit. It's up to you to choose wisely and use wisely. You can modify the .fd files in a nondestructive way. Look at the files helvet.sty and ot1phv.fd in the directory texmf/tex/latex/psnfss. The package helvet now takes an option [scaled=0.92], and defines \Hv@scale to be that scale factor. (And [scaled] is equivalent to [scaled=0.95].) Then the .fd files check to see if \Hv@scale is defined, and if it is, scale the font accordingly. You could make your own package file for, say, Gill Sans (note that the name "gillsans" is already taken) and model it after helvet.sty, changing the names of macros that appear to refer to Helvetica. Edit your .fd files to work like ot1phv.fd too. Then you would put into your main LaTeX file \usepackage{mycaslon} \usepackage[scaled=0.91]{mygill} but of course you would use fonts that matched. Remember, with great power comes great responsibility. Would an experienced voice care to suggest some families that work together but weren't designed with each other in mind? Mike xander wrote: > > Hi all, > > When I pick a serif font (e.g. caslon) and a sans serif font > (e.g. gill sans) the heights of both fonts differ. > > Now, my original purpose was to create a nice-looking, easily readable > document but I end up with a document that looks like it came straight > out of kindergarten :) Especially when I put two words next to each other > typesetted in resp. serif and sans serif. > > How do I scale down the sans serif font to match the size of the serif > font? Preferably not in the .fd file, since altering the serif font > would require me to modify the .fd font again.. so I'm looking for > something like a scale function in TeX I suppose? > > Thanks in advance, > xander van wiggen > -- > xander van wiggen mailto:xvw@trinity.warande.net > If you were a booger, I'd pick you first. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Apr 25 14:24:21 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from trinity.warande.net (warande0147.warande.uu.nl [131.211.120.147]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17275 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from camarena.trinity.warande.net ([10.10.10.11] helo=camarena) by trinity.warande.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Red Hat Linux)) id 170pmm-0007jS-00; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:24:12 +0200 Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:24:11 +0200 From: xander X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60c) Reply-To: xander Organization: TRiN!TY X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <7419350334.20020425222411@trinity.warande.net> To: Michael Malak CC: tex-fonts Subject: Re[2]: adjusting height of sans serif to match serif In-Reply-To: <3CC86273.A4E1619B@commercehub.com> References: <1331667788.20020425172929@trinity.warande.net> <3CC86273.A4E1619B@commercehub.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael, Thanks :) MM> Would an experienced voice care to suggest some families that work MM> together but weren't designed with each other in mind? How about Minion + Optima??? Note that I'm definitely not an expert... -- groetjes, xander mailto:xvw@trinity.warande.net If you were a booger, I'd pick you first. From tex-fonts-errors Sat Apr 27 18:22:02 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from f05n15.cac.psu.edu (f05s15.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.58]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24369 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 18:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from archana.psu.edu (cein177143.ceinetworks.com [216.169.177.143]) by f05n15.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA169492 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:22:01 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020427201739.01f30260@email.psu.edu> X-Sender: nug107@email.psu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:21:52 -0400 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Nirmal Govind Subject: Thicker Computer Modern fonts? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_111321241==_.ALT" --=====================_111321241==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi, I have a question about the Computer Modern fonts. When I print documents written in CM fonts with a 600dpi printer, the output on paper appears a bit light (though on the computer screen it looks great). I'm aware that the CM fonts are supposed to look that way (light) so I was wondering if there's any workaround to make the output on paper look thicker/darker. OR is there another font that looks similar to the CM font but is darker? I think this font looks awesome and so I'd like to stick to it as much as possible. Thanks, nirmal --=====================_111321241==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi,

I have a question about the Computer Modern fonts. When I print documents written in CM fonts with a 600dpi printer, the output on paper appears a bit light (though on the computer screen it looks great). I'm aware that the CM fonts are supposed to look that way (light) so I was wondering if there's any workaround to make the output on paper look thicker/darker. OR is there another font that looks similar to the CM font but is darker? I think this font looks awesome and so I'd like to stick to it as much as possible.

Thanks,
nirmal
--=====================_111321241==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Apr 28 10:52:05 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01155 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-005casfrmp023.dialsprint.net ([158.252.212.25] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 171ru5-0002Rj-00; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:52:02 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428094734.00b49368@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:51:58 -0700 To: Nirmal Govind , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: Thicker Computer Modern fonts? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020427201739.01f30260@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_5885693==_.ALT" --=====================_5885693==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi: >I have a question about the Computer Modern fonts. When I print documents >written in CM fonts with a 600dpi printer, the output on paper appears a >bit light (though on the computer screen it looks great). I'm aware that >the CM fonts are supposed to look that way (light) so I was wondering if >there's any workaround to make the output on paper look thicker/darker. OR >is there another font that looks similar to the CM font but is darker? I >think this font looks awesome and so I'd like to stick to it as much as >possible. Some publishers have been faced with this dilemma: people like to use CM, because it is "traditional", but don't like how thin it really is. In some cases they have commissioned special Type 1 versions of the CM fonts (or a subset thereof) that are "darker". Since making quality Type 1 fonts is a non-trivial amount of work, this has cost them quite a bit. When using bitmapped versions of the fonts, people have modified the MetaFont commands to "fatten" the strokes. regards, Berthold. >Thanks, nirmal -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_5885693==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi:

I have a question about the Computer Modern fonts. When I print documents written in CM fonts with a 600dpi printer, the output on paper appears a bit light (though on the computer screen it looks great). I'm aware that the CM fonts are supposed to look that way (light) so I was wondering if there's any workaround to make the output on paper look thicker/darker. OR is there another font that looks similar to the CM font but is darker? I think this font looks awesome and so I'd like to stick to it as much as possible.

Some publishers have been faced with this dilemma:
people like to use CM, because it is "traditional",
but don't like how thin it really is.

In some cases they have commissioned special Type 1 versions
of the CM fonts (or a subset thereof) that are "darker".  Since
making quality Type 1 fonts is a non-trivial amount of work,
this has cost them quite a bit.

When using bitmapped versions of the fonts, people have
modified the MetaFont commands to "fatten" the strokes.

regards, Berthold.

Thanks, nirmal

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_5885693==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Apr 28 11:37:43 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from f05n15.cac.psu.edu (f05s15.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.58]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01488 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from archana.psu.edu (cein177143.ceinetworks.com [216.169.177.143]) by f05n15.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA202158; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:37:40 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020428133123.01f406b8@email.psu.edu> X-Sender: nug107@email.psu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:37:32 -0400 To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Nirmal Govind Subject: Re: Thicker Computer Modern fonts? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428094734.00b49368@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020427201739.01f30260@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_173461354==_.ALT" --=====================_173461354==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thanks for your reply Berthold. of the CM fonts (or a subset thereof) that are "darker". Since >making quality Type 1 fonts is a non-trivial amount of work, >this has cost them quite a bit. I'm guessing these aren't available on the web and aren't free for sure.. >When using bitmapped versions of the fonts, people have >modified the MetaFont commands to "fatten" the strokes. Is this something that I can do by myself? What do I need for this? Can you point me to a link which has instructions ? Thanks, nirmal --=====================_173461354==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Thanks for your reply Berthold.

of the CM fonts (or a subset thereof) that are "darker".  Since

making quality Type 1 fonts is a non-trivial amount of work,
this has cost them quite a bit.

I'm guessing these aren't available on the web and aren't free for sure..


When using bitmapped versions of the fonts, people have
modified the MetaFont commands to "fatten" the strokes.

Is this something that I can do by myself? What do I need for this? Can you point me to a link which has instructions ?

Thanks,
nirmal --=====================_173461354==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Apr 28 13:15:50 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from trinity.warande.net (warande0147.warande.uu.nl [131.211.120.147]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02295 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:15:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from camarena.trinity.warande.net ([10.10.10.11] helo=camarena) by trinity.warande.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1 (Red Hat Linux)) id 171u9C-0000rs-00 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:15:46 +0200 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:15:45 +0200 From: xander X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.60c) Reply-To: xander Organization: TRiN!TY X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <17711446569.20020428211545@trinity.warande.net> To: tex-fonts Subject: fonts, design etc. continued In-Reply-To: <874235940.20020425220934@ujf-grenoble.fr> References: <200204251730.LAA13254@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <874235940.20020425220934@ujf-grenoble.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi people, Based on the various replies you kindly supplied me, I have decided to drop the sans serif fonts out of my document. I am currently writing my thesis and only use serif and a typewriter font now out of necessity (i write plain text & source code). I have selected the Adobe Garamond series as my main font (partly because I have the expert fonts, and those ligatures are just beautiful :). As typewriter font I use cmtt, as I recently heard (right here? or at comp.text.tex?) that this font mixes well with almost any font.. (any alternative typewriter/fixed-width fonts for AGaramond?) Also, I have ordered The elements of Typographic Style by Bringhurst. I am really getting interested in font & design stuff. Hints, links, tips anyone? See you, -- xander mailto:xvw@trinity.warande.net Zoltar: "If I don't write a good paper and get a good grade, my teacher will melt my brain." Eek: "Gee! I see our planets share a similar education system." From tex-fonts-errors Sun Apr 28 17:54:47 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from smtp.localnet.com (signup.localnet.com [207.251.201.46]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA04217 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 17:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 4098 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2002 23:53:22 -0000 Received: from ppp187.tc-1.buf-ch.ny.localnet.com (HELO lugabout.jhcloos.org) (207.251.220.187) by smtp.localnet.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2002 23:53:22 -0000 Received: from lugabout.jhcloos.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugabout.jhcloos.org (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386)) with ESMTP id 1D06910430; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:54:29 +0000 (GMT) To: Nirmal Govind Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Thicker Computer Modern fonts? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428094734.00b49368@mail.ai.mit.edu> From: "James H. Cloos Jr." In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020428094734.00b49368@mail.ai.mit.edu> Date: 28 Apr 2002 19:54:29 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 40 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "Nirmal" == Nirmal Govind writes: >>>>> "Berthold" == Berthold K P Horn writes: Nirmal> I'm aware that the CM fonts are supposed to look that way Nirmal> (light) so I was wondering if there's any workaround to make the Nirmal> output on paper look thicker/darker. Berthold> In some cases they have commissioned special Type 1 versions Berthold> of the CM fonts (or a subset thereof) that are "darker". Berthold> When using bitmapped versions of the fonts, people have Berthold> modified the MetaFont commands to "fatten" the strokes. What about just makeing a modes.mf entry with a larger darker than that used by default for the given printer? Ie, change ljet4 from: mode_def ljfour = %\[ HP LaserJet 4 (600dpi) mode_param (pixels_per_inch, 600); mode_param (blacker, .25); mode_param (fillin, 0); mode_param (o_correction, 1); mode_common_setup_; enddef; to something like: mode_def blackerljfour = %\[ HP LaserJet 4 (600dpi) with extra blacker mode_param (pixels_per_inch, 600); mode_param (blacker, 1); mode_param (fillin, 0); mode_param (o_correction, 1); mode_common_setup_; enddef; Perhaps also the printer you are using and the 600dpi mode do not concur. There are fifteen 600dpi modes in modes.mf, you might prefer one of the others to whichever one your setup defaults to. -JimC From tex-fonts-errors Sun Apr 28 23:16:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from f05n15.cac.psu.edu (f05s15.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.58]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06549 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 23:16:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from archana.psu.edu (cein177143.ceinetworks.com [216.169.177.143]) by f05n15.cac.psu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA177862; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:16:10 -0400 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020429011229.01eb1008@email.psu.edu> X-Sender: nug107@email.psu.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:16:03 -0400 To: "James H. Cloos Jr." From: Nirmal Govind Subject: Re: Thicker Computer Modern fonts? Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020428220444.00ba9818@email.psu.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020428094734.00b49368@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020428094734.00b49368@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.0.20020428220444.00ba9818@email.psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi Jim, Never mind my last message!! I got things to work!!! And I'm really glad to say that the output on my printer now looks wonderful!!!! I generated the cmr12 font using the ljfive mode as you said which had blacker=0.75 .. and now the 12pt fonts are thicker.. I guess I need to do this now for more sizes of the fonts and slants and stuff but it feels great to have got to this point! Thanks so much for your help.. nirmal From tex-fonts-errors Mon Apr 29 02:35:09 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr (ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.238.117]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08339 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 02:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ouveze.ujf-grenoble.fr (Switch-2.1.4/Switch-2.1.0/Configured by JE 06 12 2001) with ESMTP id g3T8YYX05592; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:34:34 +0200 (MEST) Received: from euclide (euclide [193.48.255.207]) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA24914; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:34:34 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:34:30 +0200 From: Thierry Bouche X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.53d) Organization: Nonsense Inc. X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <321922334.20020429103430@ujf-grenoble.fr> To: xander CC: tex-fonts Subject: Re: fonts, design etc. continued In-Reply-To: <17711446569.20020428211545@trinity.warande.net> References: <200204251730.LAA13254@sunshine.math.utah.edu> <874235940.20020425220934@ujf-grenoble.fr> <17711446569.20020428211545@trinity.warande.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Le dimanche 28 avril 2002 à 21:15:45, xander xander écrivit : x> I have selected the Adobe Garamond series as my main font (partly x> because I have the expert fonts, and those ligatures are just x> beautiful :). As typewriter font I use cmtt, as I recently heard x> (right here? or at comp.text.tex?) that this font mixes well with x> almost any font.. (any alternative typewriter/fixed-width fonts x> for AGaramond?) it's somewhat too black, but its low x-height and good design makes it a good choice, yes. For quite obvious reasons, there is no tt font that reasonably mix with AGaramond (I personnally use Letter Gothic, but this may need to be reworked a bit in order to live on a page with garaldes..) x> Also, I have ordered The elements of Typographic Style by Bringhurst. good starting point. x> I am really getting interested in font & design stuff. Hints, x> links, tips anyone? Well, there is the home page of Luc Devroye, which is quite a good gateway to font resources. Charles Hedrick has somewhere something about design of technical docs. Very conservative. -- Thierry Bouche From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 1 10:30:17 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from toranaga.uni-paderborn.de (toranaga.upb.de [131.234.208.131]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23745 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 10:30:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from stern@localhost) by toranaga.uni-paderborn.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA00182 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 1 May 2002 18:30:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 18:30:15 +0200 From: Michael Sternberg To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: math fonts for presentations Message-ID: <20020501183015.B39@phys.upb.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Hello fellow TeXnicians, I am looking for a MATH font set suitable for electronic presentations. The general wisdom for such presentations is to use sans serif to improve readability. Thus, FoilTeX and also SliTeX settle for sans fonts by default; however, math fonts remain the CM seriffed fonts. There are apparently only two contenders for sans serif math fonts, both offered commercially by micropress, and both of which I find not quite suiteable for the particular purpose: o hvmath: In my opinion, this is too heavy, and has too large an x-height, leading to a crowded looking page. Micropress provides 300dpi pk-fonts suitable for print preview, which is what I used for a test. o cmbright: As the name implies, this is rather light and thus, not quite unsuitable for projection. However, I find the font genuinely appealing in regular text. The MF sources and support files, except the scalable Type1 fonts are part of PSNFSS. I compared the same talk of mine with both the FoilTeX default, and the two packages above -- both of which work flawless with just \usepackage. The FoilTeX text fonts are in-between those two in weight, and I believe this is just the right one. Now, the math mismatch would be less an issue if only displayed equations would be seriffed, but it becomes a very apparent one when sub/super-scripts are needed (e.g. chemical formulae). There is quite a bunch of presentation packages now available in LaTeX (slides, foils, seminar, prosper, pdfslide, pdfscreen, [ppower4]), yet most focus on questions like layout tricks and adding navigation, leaving most font issues open. I for one adopted pdflatex, the foils style, and supplemental packages to aid layout, e.g. geometry, ragged2e, textpos, and paralist. I lack experience in MetaFont and company, which is why I shied away >From fiddling with them so far. FoilTeX's fltfonts.def is not for the light-hearted to dive in. Can anyone in this list help? Is there a radically different approach? Regards, -- Michael Sternberg, Ph.D. "Who disturrrbs me at this time?" << Zaphod Beeblebrox IV >> <*> From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 1 11:27:32 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA24891 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 11:27:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200205011727.LAA24891@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 32136 invoked by uid 101); 1 May 2002 17:27:29 -0000 Received: from pd902b8a4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.184.164) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 1 May 2002 17:27:29 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "Michael Sternberg" , "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 19:27:27 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 In-Reply-To: <20020501183015.B39@phys.upb.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: math fonts for presentations On Wed, 1 May 2002 18:30:15 +0200, Michael Sternberg wrote: > o hvmath: In my opinion, this is too heavy, and has too large > an x-height, leading to a crowded looking page. Helvetica is MUCH larger than CM. As a result, many dimensions in your document, particularly the leading (distance between the lines), are too small for Helvetica. _This_ is the reason, why it looks bad! In addition to hvmath.sty, there is an improved package hvmaths.sty on CTAN (*), which lets you scale the Helvetica fonts, so that they match the size of CM. Besides, the leading should be increased somewhat, since Helvetica has a larger x-height than CM, even when scaled to the same height of the capital letters. For instance, scaling down Helevtica to about 93% of its natural size and increasing the distance between the lines to about 105% gives a good result: \usepackage[scaled=0.93]{hvmaths} \linespread{1.05} \normalfont The required \linespread depends on the line width and should be judged visually. (*) CTAN:macros/latex/contrib/supported/psnfssx/hvmath/ > Micropress provides 300dpi pk-fonts suitable for print preview, > which is what I used for a test. Hmm... the prefabricated bitmap fonts cannot be scaled, of course. But -- believe me -- it will look really good with scalable Type1 fonts :-) > o cmbright: As the name implies, this is rather light and thus, > not quite unsuitable for projection. You mean "not suitable"? Well, it was not particularly designed for that purpose. > However, I find the > font genuinely appealing in regular text. :-) best wishes Walter From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 1 11:33:12 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25026 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 11:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mv (66-108-74-87.nyc.rr.com [66.108.74.87]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g41HXuFb001502; Wed, 1 May 2002 13:33:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020501173204.00670520@pop.panix.com> X-Sender: mv@pop.panix.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:32:04 -0400 To: Michael Sternberg From: "MicroPress Inc." Subject: Re: math fonts for presentations Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu At 06:30 PM 5/1/02 +0200, you wrote: >Hello fellow TeXnicians, > >I am looking for a MATH font set suitable for electronic presentations. > >The general wisdom for such presentations is to use sans serif to >improve readability. Thus, FoilTeX and also SliTeX settle for sans >fonts by default; however, math fonts remain the CM seriffed fonts. > >There are apparently only two contenders for sans serif math fonts, The third contender, which is of slightly different nature, but still presentation-oriented, would be the ifmath, http://www.micropress-inc.com/fonts >both offered commercially by micropress, and both of which I find not >quite suiteable for the particular purpose: > > o hvmath: In my opinion, this is too heavy, and has too large > an x-height, leading to a crowded looking page. Slightly large x-height (which is normal for Helvetica) does not lead to a crowded page by itself; after all, if needed, one can adjust the line spacing a bit. Take a look at real samples, at http://www.micropress-inc.com/fonts or, a particular sample, http://www.micropress-inc.com/fonts/samples/hvsampl.pdf > > Micropress provides 300dpi pk-fonts suitable for print preview, > which is what I used for a test. > > o cmbright: As the name implies, this is rather light and thus, > not quite unsuitable for projection. However, I find the > font genuinely appealing in regular text. Yes, it is more of a text rather than the presentation font set. > > The MF sources and support files, except the scalable Type1 > fonts are part of PSNFSS. > >I compared the same talk of mine with both the FoilTeX default, and >the two packages above -- both of which work flawless with just >\usepackage. The FoilTeX text fonts are in-between those two in >weight, and I believe this is just the right one. Now, the math >mismatch would be less an issue if only displayed equations would be >seriffed, but it becomes a very apparent one when sub/super-scripts >are needed (e.g. chemical formulae). > >There is quite a bunch of presentation packages now available in >LaTeX (slides, foils, seminar, prosper, pdfslide, pdfscreen, >[ppower4]), yet most focus on questions like layout tricks and adding >navigation, leaving most font issues open. I for one adopted >pdflatex, the foils style, and supplemental packages to aid layout, >e.g. geometry, ragged2e, textpos, and paralist. > >I lack experience in MetaFont and company, which is why I shied away >from fiddling with them so far. FoilTeX's fltfonts.def is not for the >light-hearted to dive in. > >Can anyone in this list help? Is there a radically different approach? Despite the explanation, it is not clear what exactly you are trying to do. > > >Regards, >-- >Michael Sternberg, Ph.D. >"Who disturrrbs me at this time?" << Zaphod Beeblebrox IV >> <*> > > --------------------------------------------- Michael Vulis MicroPress mailto://support@micropress-inc.com http://www.micropress-inc.com From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 1 13:11:56 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from toranaga.uni-paderborn.de (toranaga.uni-paderborn.de [131.234.208.131]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26905 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 13:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from stern@localhost) by toranaga.uni-paderborn.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA00946; Wed, 1 May 2002 21:11:52 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:11:52 +0200 From: Michael Sternberg To: "MicroPress Inc." Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: math fonts for presentations Message-ID: <20020501211152.A782@phys.upb.de> References: <2.2.32.20020501173204.00670520@pop.panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.20020501173204.00670520@pop.panix.com>; from support@micropress-inc.com on Wed, May 01, 2002 at 01:32:04PM -0400 On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 01:32:04PM -0400, MicroPress Inc. wrote: > The third contender, which is of slightly different nature, but still > presentation-oriented, would be the ifmath, Thanks for pointing this out. But I'd like to stay kinda formal :-) > Slightly large x-height (which is normal for Helvetica) does not lead to a > crowded page by itself; after all, if needed, one can adjust the line > spacing a bit. Indeed - as Walter advised. > Despite the explanation, it is not clear what exactly you are trying to do. % test file indicating font issues in FoilTeX \documentclass{foils} % we want vectors in math italic bold \usepackage{bm} \renewcommand{\vec}[1]{\bm{#1}} \begin{document} \foilhead{Subscripts are seriffed: H\boldmath$_2$O\\ -- as is {\slshape Slanted Bold}} \begin{itemize} \item Newton's law for particle $i$: \[ \vec{F}_i = \dot{\vec{p}}_i \] \item Text is sans serif, but math remains CM. \end{itemize} \end{document} I am looking mainly for a math font set that matches sans serif text. The other issue, namely, bold \slshape appearing seriffed is not nearly as serious, but would be nice if fixed. Regards, -- Michael Sternberg, Ph.D. "Who disturrrbs me at this time?" << Zaphod Beeblebrox IV >> <*> From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 1 13:21:30 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (relay1.EECS.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.60.163]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27083 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 13:21:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from relay3.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (localhost.Berkeley.EDU [127.0.0.1]) by relay1.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26444 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 12:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sabre1.ai.mit.edu (dhcp-45-69.CS.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.45.69]) by relay3.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10655; Wed, 1 May 2002 12:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020501121016.02853840@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 12:21:26 -0700 To: Michael Sternberg From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: math fonts for presentations Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <20020501183015.B39@phys.upb.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi: At 06:30 PM 5/1/2002 +0200, you wrote: >The general wisdom for such presentations is to use sans serif to >improve readability. Thus, FoilTeX and also SliTeX settle for sans >fonts by default; however, math fonts remain the CM seriffed fonts. Well, in this country at least sans serif math is favoured in school text books, where hairy math rarely occurs. Otherwise people tend to stay away from it, particularly when they are using sans serif to mean something (like a tensor). As for being designed for presentation, being heavier than CM etc., Lucida Bright and Lucida New Math ought to be considered. Not sans serif of course, but "robust" enough to withstand low and medium resolution rasterization. For discussion of the Lucida super family see: http://members.aol.com/willadams/lucida.txt For amusing footnotes on font readability see very bottom of http://www.yandy.com/lucida.htm and http://www.yandy.com/mathtime.htm Another thing to note is that if you magnifiy any font enough it will start to look heavier (which is why "optical scaling" is needed). So one option is to typeset using small fonts, and use a large value for \magnification. Regards, Berthold. >There are apparently only two contenders for sans serif math fonts, >both offered commercially by micropress, and both of which I find not >quite suiteable for the particular purpose: > > ... > >Can anyone in this list help? Is there a radically different approach? > > >Regards, >-- >Michael Sternberg, Ph.D. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (MT) From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 1 14:31:39 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from toranaga.uni-paderborn.de (toranaga.uni-paderborn.de [131.234.208.131]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28484 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 14:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from stern@localhost) by toranaga.uni-paderborn.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA01301; Wed, 1 May 2002 22:31:37 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 22:31:37 +0200 From: Michael Sternberg To: Walter Schmidt Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: math fonts for presentations Message-ID: <20020501223137.A901@phys.upb.de> References: <20020501183015.B39@phys.upb.de> <200205011727.LAA24891@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200205011727.LAA24891@sunshine.math.utah.edu>; from was@VR-Web.de on Wed, May 01, 2002 at 07:27:27PM +0200 On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 07:27:27PM +0200, Walter Schmidt wrote: > On Wed, 1 May 2002 18:30:15 +0200, Michael Sternberg wrote: > \usepackage[scaled=0.93]{hvmaths} > \linespread{1.05} > \normalfont Aha! I tried this on my test sheet. Of course, not having the scalable fonts leads to some stuttering in the dvips step, but the output of above looks indeed MUCH better than with plain hvmath. Yet, even making allowances, I still believe Helvetica is a tad too heavy. Furthermore, \sum and \prod are outrageously heavy, so that I'd like to resort to package exscale. > But -- believe me -- it will look really good > with scalable Type1 fonts :-) I sure do! But I doubt my boss does when he hears the price :-) > > o cmbright: As the name implies, this is rather light and thus, > > not quite unsuitable for projection. > You mean "not suitable"? Yes, that's what I meant - I apologise. Thank you for the advice, and of course your marvellous work on PSNFSS in the first place. Regards, -- Michael Sternberg, Ph.D. "Who disturrrbs me at this time?" << Zaphod Beeblebrox IV >> <*> From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 1 16:15:33 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00509 for ; Wed, 1 May 2002 16:15:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200205012215.QAA00509@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 13456 invoked by uid 101); 1 May 2002 22:15:30 -0000 Received: from pd902b8e6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.184.230) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 1 May 2002 22:15:30 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "Michael Sternberg" Cc: "tex-fonts@math.utah.edu" Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 00:15:28 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: math fonts for presentations On Wed, 1 May 2002 21:11:52 +0200, Michael Sternberg wrote: >> Despite the explanation, it is not clear what exactly you are trying to do. > > % test file indicating font issues in FoilTeX > \documentclass{foils} > [...] You're fighting at several front lines here: (1) foils.cls defines its own math font families, because the normal definitions of the CM font families do not provide scaling to more than 25pt. Unfortunately, foils.cls does this in a somewhat strange way, which differs from the default math font setup. For instance, the normal definition of \mathrm is changed without need. (2) There exist no CM Sansserif math italic fonts. (3) The CM Sansserif _text_ fonts have no bold slanted variant. (The EC fonts do, but EC Sansserif is UGLY.) (4) You are misusing a mixture of text and math to typeset chemical formulas. This is evil. With HV-Math you can get it completely right, but if you insist in a "poor man's solution", see the below example. >I am looking mainly for a math font set that matches sans serif >text. There is no math font that matches CM Sanserif. Period. best wishes Walter %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% snip %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% \documentclass{foils} % make numbers and operator names sans serif: \SetSymbolFont{operators}{normal}{OT1}{fcmss}{m}{n} \SetSymbolFont{operators}{bold}{OT1}{fcmss}{bx}{n} % fix \mathrm, which is broken by foils.cls: \DeclareSymbolFontAlphabet{\mathrm}{operators} % Notice that \mathrm is always the _upright_ font, % which is used for numbers and operator names. % It's still upright, but sans serif now. % Unf., there is no complete CM Sansserif Math Italic font. % Do NOT typeset variables as sans serif upright, as this % is ugly, wrong, misleading and the spacing will be too tight. % we want vectors in math italic bold \usepackage{bm} \renewcommand{\vec}[1]{\bm{#1}} \begin{document} \foilhead{Subscripts are not seriffed: {\boldmath $\mathrm{H}_2\mathrm{O}$}} % Notice that \boldmath makes all formulas bold, % within its scope. {\bfseries\slshape Sansserif Slanted Bold is not available.} \begin{itemize} \item Newton's law for particle $i$: $\vec{F}_i = \dot{\vec{p}}_i$ \item We see that text is sans serif, but math remains mostly CM. \end{itemize} \end{document} %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% snap %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 8 16:53:26 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from smtp-server.nlr.nl (spider.nlr.nl [137.17.80.200]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02198 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 16:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ntintran.nlr.nl (ntintran.nlr.nl [137.17.128.59]) by smtp-server.nlr.nl (8.11.6/8.11.6/NLR 24/01/2001) with ESMTP id g48Mqrp4311089; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:52:54 +0200 (CDT) Disclaimer: "The National Aerospace Laboratory NLR DOES NOT ACCEPT ANY FINANCIAL COMMITMENT derived from this message." Received: from mail pickup service by ntintran.nlr.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 9 May 2002 00:52:53 +0200 From: Antigen@nlr.nl To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Antigen Notification:Antigen found VIRUS= W32/Klez.H@m (Norman) virus Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 May 2002 22:52:53.0569 (UTC) FILETIME=[1653E310:01C1F6E3] Date: 9 May 2002 00:52:53 +0200 Antigen for Exchange found blank ~pif infected with VIRUS= W32/Klez.H@m (Norman) virus. The file is currently Removed. The message, "A special funny website", was sent from info and was discovered in Third Storage Group\Breeman, J.H.\Inbox located at National Aerospace Laboratory NLR/First Administrative Group/NTINTRAN. From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 8 17:12:54 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.20.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02527 for ; Wed, 8 May 2002 17:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 8 May 2002 18:05:27 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 18:05:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = info@sanpedro.com Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = A special funny website Scanning Time = 05/08/2002 18:05:26 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/275 Action on message: The attachment blank .pif matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\blank 3cd9af36cd.pif_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Thu May 9 15:31:40 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19779 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 15:31:39 -0600 (MDT) From: daniel07@post.com Received: from post.com (203186143185.ctinets.com [203.186.143.185]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g49LVUE13007 for ; Thu, 9 May 2002 23:31:32 +0200 Received: from 203.42.252.70 ([203.42.252.70]) by n7.groups.huyahoo.com with QMQP; Fri, 10 May 0102 05:39:29 +0100 Received: from 51.176.129.235 ([51.176.129.235]) by n9.groups.huyahoo.com with smtp; 10 May 0102 06:39:25 -0400 Received: from rly-xw01.otpalo.com ([126.127.57.106]) by rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com with SMTP; Fri, 10 May 0102 02:39:21 +0900 Received: from unknown (76.102.230.101) by sydint1.microthink.com.au with smtp; Fri, 10 May 0102 11:39:17 -0600 Received: from unknown (48.210.71.76) by smtp4.cyberecschange.com with SMTP; Fri, 10 May 0102 05:39:13 -0800 Reply-To: Message-ID: <026e66c10e0c$4247b4b3$3cb88ba1@rbfkem> To: daniel07@post.com Subject: bonne idee! good idea! Date: Thu, 09 May 0102 17:24:31 +0400 MiME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C1_65E21E3B.A4876E28" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_65E21E3B.A4876E28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 KGluIGZyZW5jaCBhbmQgaW4gZW5nbGlzaCEpDQoNClFVRUxMRSBCT05ORSBJ REVFIERFIFJFR1JPVVBFUiBEQU5TIFVOIE1FTUUgU0lURSBMRVMgTUVJTExF VVJTDQpTSVRFUyBYIEdSQVRVSVRTIERFIExBIFRPSUxFIQ0KRU4gUExVUyBZ IEVOIEEgUE9VUiBUT1VTIExFUyBHT1VUUzogQU1BVEVVUlMsIEZFVElDSElT VEVTLCBHQVksIEJMQUNLUy4uLg0KTCdBRFJFU1NFIEVTVCBGQUNJTEUgQSBS RVRFTklSOiAgDQoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cuc2V4LWFubnVhaXJlLmNvbQ0KDQp3 aGF0IGEgZ29vZCBpZGVhIHRvIG1ha2UgYSBsaXN0IG9mIHRoZSBiZXN0IGZy ZWUgcG9ybiBzaXRlcyBvZiB0aGUgd2ViIQ0KYW5kIHlvdSBhcmUgc3VyZSB0 byBmaW5kIHdoYXQgeW91IGxpa2U6IHJlYWwgYW1hdGV1cnMsIGZldGlzaGlz bSwgZ2F5LCBibGFja3MuLi4NCnlvdSBtdXN0IHZpc2l0IHRoaXMgZnJlZSB3 ZWIgc2l0ZTogIA0KDQpodHRwOi8vdWsuc2V4LWFubnVhaXJlLmNvbQ0KDQoN ClBPVVIgTSdBSURFUiwgdG8gaGVscCBtZSwNCk1FUkNJIERFIFZJU0lURVIs IHRoYW5rIHUgdG8gdmlzaXQsDQpNT04gU1BPTlNPUiwgbXkgc3BvbnNvcg0K NjE3NHNURnM1LTMzOE5ORFY5ODM5UXhBRjktNjkzSW95QTE2MTBrbDM3 From tex-fonts-errors Mon May 13 18:57:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19178 for ; Mon, 13 May 2002 18:57:13 -0600 (MDT) From: walter54p@yahoo.de Received: from yahoo.de (213-97-198-163.uc.nombres.ttd.es [213.97.198.163]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4E0v2E15918; Tue, 14 May 2002 02:57:03 +0200 Received: from 130.213.115.9 ([130.213.115.9]) by n9.groups.huyahoo.com with NNFMP; 13 May 0102 18:05:12 +0700 Received: from [41.168.44.47] by smtp-server1.cflrr.com with local; Tue, 14 May 0102 01:04:26 +0600 Received: from unknown (HELO rly-xw05.oxyeli.com) (37.218.4.204) by mta85.snfc21.pibi.net with SMTP; 14 May 0102 07:03:40 -0900 Received: from rly-xw05.oxyeli.com ([72.114.168.246]) by rly-xl05.dohuya.com with NNFMP; Mon, 13 May 0102 22:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (162.113.86.132) by n7.groups.huyahoo.com with smtp; Mon, 13 May 0102 22:02:08 +0300 Reply-To: Message-ID: <011d20c27d1a$5542e1a7$3ab65ac6@mxlaeb> To: walter54p@yahoo.de Subject: ist es dein Geburtstag? Date: Tue, 14 May 0102 02:37:23 -0200 MiME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E4_70E52D4E.E8266B21" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ------=_NextPart_000_00E4_70E52D4E.E8266B21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 aWNoIGdsYXViZS4uLnlhISBlcyBpc3QgZGVpbiBHZWJ1cnRzdGFnIQ0KVW5k IG1laW4gR2VzY2hlbmsgaXN0IGRpZXNlIEludGVybmV0LUFkcmVzc2U6DQoN Cmh0dHA6Ly91ay5zZXgtYW5udWFpcmUuY29tDQoNCmVzIGlzdCBGcmFuevZz aXNjaGUgc2V4IChrb3N0ZW5sb3NlKS4uLg0KLi4udW5kIHNlaHIgImJpemFy ciIgKHVybywgRmV0aXNjaCwgRmlzdGluZy4uLikNCg0KQnllIEJ5ZSwNCg0K V2FsdGVyLg0KNDAwMFhMcm02LTY5MENlcUUzMzI4UHdrRTAtMzc2Zkd6WDUw MjBnSnFiNS0zODZqc0NGMDMwNUp2SkQyLTQ4NWw2MA== From tex-fonts-errors Tue May 14 19:51:08 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07255 for ; Tue, 14 May 2002 19:51:07 -0600 (MDT) From: faxinsina@vip.sina.com Received: from vip.sina.com (sina35-183.sina.com.cn [202.108.35.183] (may be forged)) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4F1p1E25002 for ; Wed, 15 May 2002 03:51:01 +0200 Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 03:51:01 +0200 Received: (qmail 10049 invoked from network); 15 May 2002 01:56:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO 202.108.35.196) (202.108.68.140) by 202.108.35.183 with SMTP; 15 May 2002 01:56:24 -0000 Message-ID: <4124-2200253151510385@202.108.35.196> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "È«Ï¢¼ìË÷¹âÅ̳ö°æϵͳ"@tug.org Apparently-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) " > To: "NEW020515" <"È«Ï¢¼ìË÷¹âÅ̳ö°æϵͳ " >> From: "È«Ï¢¼ìË÷¹âÅ̳ö°æϵͳ " > Subject: È«Ï¢¼ìË÷¹âÅ̳ö°æϵͳ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:51:00 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm sorry to disturb you, if you reject,you can send email to email02@btam= ial=2Enet=2Ecn =BA=DC=B1=A7=C7=B8=B4=F2=C8=C5=C4=FA=A3=AC=C8=E7=D2=AA=C8=A1=CF=FB=A3=AC=C7= =EB=B7=A2=D0=C5=B8=F8=A3=BAemail02@btamial=2Enet=2Ecn =C8=E7=B6=D4=CE=D2=C3=C7=B5=C4=B2=FA=C6=B7=D3=D0=D0=CB=C8=A4=A3=AC=C7=EB=B7= =A2=D0=C5=B8=F8=A3=BAnewcoding@vip=2Esina=2Ecom =BB=B6=D3=AD=CF=EE=C4=BF=BA=CF=D7=F7=BA=CD=B2=FA=C6=B7=B4=FA=C0=ED=A3=BB =CB=D1=B0=D4=C8=AB=CF=A2=BC=EC=CB=F7=CF=B5=CD=B34=2E0=A3=BA =A1=A1=A1=A1=C4=DA=C7=B6=D6=F8=C3=FB=B5=C4TRS=C8=AB=CE=C4=BC=EC=CB=F7=CA=FD= =BE=DD=BF=E2=A3=AC=BF=C9=D2=D4=B9=DC=C0=ED=B8=F7=D6=D6=B8=F1=CA=BD=B5=C4=BA= =A3=C1=BF=CA=FD=BE=DD=A3=AC=C8=E7=D7=D6=B7=FB=B4=AE=A1=A2=CE=C4=B1=BE=A1=A2= =CD=BC=C6=AC=A1=A2html=A1=A2pdf=A1=A2word=B5=C8=A3=AC=CC=E1=B9=A9=C7=BF=B4= =F3=B5=C4=C8=AB=CF=A2=BC=EC=CB=F7=B9=A6=C4=DC=A3=AC=B7=BD=B1=E3=B5=C4=B7=D6= 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------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From tex-fonts-errors Thu May 16 20:36:52 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com (gadolinium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.111]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12865 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 20:36:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-14-44.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.14.44]) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 178Xbp-0003KP-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Fri, 17 May 2002 03:36:45 +0100 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 03:36:58 +0100 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Spam and suchlike All the spam I get comes via the tex-fonts mailing list. What I was wondering was this: is there any way of applying some spam filtering at the tex-fonts server? Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Thu May 16 22:34:16 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from smtp.localnet.com (signup.localnet.com [207.251.201.46]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA13964 for ; Thu, 16 May 2002 22:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13779 invoked from network); 17 May 2002 04:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lugabout.jhcloos.org) (207.251.210.217) by smtp.localnet.com with SMTP; 17 May 2002 04:32:09 -0000 Received: from lugabout.jhcloos.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugabout.jhcloos.org (Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3 (i386)) with ESMTP id 7F94D104DC for ; Fri, 17 May 2002 04:33:40 +0000 (GMT) To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Spam and suchlike References: From: "James H. Cloos Jr." In-Reply-To: Date: 17 May 2002 00:33:40 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "Rowland" == Rowland McDonnell writes: Rowland> All the spam I get comes via the tex-fonts mailing list. Rowland> What I was wondering was this: is there any way of applying Rowland> some spam filtering at the tex-fonts server? Just for the record, if any of the (huge load) of spam I'm seeing is coming via this list, it is NOT comming with an envelope sender of tex-fonts-errors@sunshine.math.utah.edu like the legitimate list output does. (Else it would get filtered with the list's mail rather than my spam sink or folder of last resort.) It must be doing an end run 'round the list-ware, as used to be an extremely common tactic to use against majordomo lists. -JimC From tex-fonts-errors Sat May 18 06:08:44 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03157 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 06:08:43 -0600 (MDT) From: daniel74@free.com Received: from free.com ([211.46.117.65]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4IC8XE19659; Sat, 18 May 2002 14:08:34 +0200 Received: from 169.70.191.178 ([169.70.191.178]) by n7.groups.huyahoo.com with SMTP; 18 May 0102 16:16:57 +0100 Received: from unknown (148.82.206.107) by mailout2-eri1.midmouth.com with QMQP; Sat, 18 May 0102 17:12:38 -0300 Received: from [189.70.107.223] by smtp4.cyberecschange.com with QMQP; Sat, 18 May 0102 14:08:19 -0200 Reply-To: Message-ID: <017a63b61d6a$1135d7c4$4cb56eb2@rsnuqu> To: dan@tug.org Subject: good idea! Date: Sat, 18 May 0102 16:57:22 -0500 MiME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D5_61D61E2C.A6852E27" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ------=_NextPart_000_00D5_61D61E2C.A6852E27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 aGVsbG8NCg0Kd2hhdCBhIGdvb2QgaWRlYSB0byBtYWtlIGEgbGlzdCBvZiB0 aGUgYmVzdCBmcmVlIHBvcm4gc2l0ZXMgb2YgdGhlIHdlYiENCmFuZCB5b3Ug YXJlIHN1cmUgdG8gZmluZCB3aGF0IHlvdSBsaWtlOiByZWFsIGFtYXRldXJz LCBmZXRpc2hpc20sIGdheSwgYmxhY2tzLi4uDQp5b3UgbXVzdCB2aXNpdCB0 aGlzIGZyZWUgd2ViIHNpdGU6ICh5ZXMgcmVhbGx5IGZyZWUhISkNCg0KaHR0 cDovL3VrLnNleC1hbm51YWlyZS5jb20NCg0KRGFuDQo2Nzk4d3JyQzQtMDQz bXZNUzM1NTlrUGRVNy00NDF5SkRFMjI0ME9LR1E3LTQyMXZheG43MDE1Y2dY dzAtNDEzbVRmazk2OTNPenlFNC04N2w3NQ== From tex-fonts-errors Sat May 18 15:14:40 2002 Flags: 000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.20.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07178 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 15:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 18 May 2002 16:06:52 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 16:06:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = STARBRITE7@aol.com Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = Media Search Scanning Time = 05/18/2002 16:06:48 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/285 Action on message: The attachment color.exe matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\color3ce6c26812c.exe_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Sat May 18 16:24:46 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07732 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 16:24:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from host213-122-68-53.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([213.122.68.53]) by tungsten.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 179Cct-0002Et-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sat, 18 May 2002 23:24:39 +0100 X-Sender: Sgt.Sunshine@mail.btinternet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:23:53 +0100 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: Rowland McDonnell Subject: Re: Spam and suchlike >>>>>> "Rowland" == Rowland McDonnell writes: > >Rowland> All the spam I get comes via the tex-fonts mailing list. >Rowland> What I was wondering was this: is there any way of applying >Rowland> some spam filtering at the tex-fonts server? > >Just for the record, if any of the (huge load) of spam I'm seeing is >coming via this list, it is NOT comming with an envelope sender of >tex-fonts-errors@sunshine.math.utah.edu like the legitimate list >output does. That header does not appear on the legitimate output from tex-fonts that *I* get. The headers I see from tex-fonts are substantially the same whether it's annoying virus-laden spam or legitimate messages like yours. [snip] For example, the virus spam tex-fonts sent me today (along with another two items of spam) had headers like this: Received: from newton.ioppublishing.com ([193.131.119.1]) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 179B80-0003gy-00 for sgt.sunshine@btinternet.com; Sat, 18 May 2002 21:48:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 13352 invoked by alias); 18 May 2002 20:48:36 -0000 Delivered-To: pweb-rowland.mcdonnell@physics.org Received: (qmail 13326 invoked from network); 18 May 2002 20:48:33 -0000 Received: from sunshine.math.utah.edu (?IG7MiJGStSpNnXgKTgf/QvyeTLylLrks?@128.110.198.2) by newton.ioppublishing.com with SMTP; 18 May 2002 20:48:33 -0000 Received: from smtp001.nwlink.com (smtp001.nwlink.com [209.20.130.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06708 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 14:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Xqzlv ([207.173.100.208]) by smtp001.nwlink.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with SMTP id g4IKNXFk030354 for ; Sat, 18 May 2002 13:23:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 13:23:33 -0700 Message-Id: <200205182023.g4IKNXFk030354@smtp001.nwlink.com> From: STARBRITE7 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Media Search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=DjD8zy1eO0qlvf62W8qCe53JNWpm9XCui Granted that such viruses never clobber me (Virex helps, but the fact that they're all Windoze executables and I've got a Mac is rather more significant); it's still a touch irritating to someone like me on a dial up connection who's taken the trouble to keep his email address away from the spammers. Rowland. From tex-fonts-errors Mon May 20 14:13:07 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02669 for ; Mon, 20 May 2002 14:13:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [130.239.137.13] (mariehemsv093.sn.umu.se [130.239.137.13]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA06858; Mon, 20 May 2002 22:12:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 22:13:02 +0200 To: Rowland McDonnell From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: Spam and suchlike Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id OAA02670 At 00.23 +0200 2002-05-19, Rowland McDonnell wrote: >> >>Rowland> All the spam I get comes via the tex-fonts mailing list. >>Rowland> What I was wondering was this: is there any way of applying >>Rowland> some spam filtering at the tex-fonts server? >> >>Just for the record, if any of the (huge load) of spam I'm seeing is >>coming via this list, it is NOT comming with an envelope sender of >>tex-fonts-errors@sunshine.math.utah.edu like the legitimate list >>output does. > >That header does not appear on the legitimate output from tex-fonts that >*I* get. The headers I see from tex-fonts are substantially the same >whether it's annoying virus-laden spam or legitimate messages like yours. > >[snip] > >For example, the virus spam tex-fonts sent me today (along with another two >items of spam) had headers like this: FWIW, there have been at least two items of spam sent over this list the last week: one with a From: of walter54p@yahoo.de on the 14th and one with a From: of daniel74@free.com on the 18th. Both had the header line Return-Path: when they arrived to me. My impression is however that most junk sent via tex-fonts are viruses rather than spam. It would probably be a good idea to add some filtering to the tex-fonts list, so that most "bad" messages would bounce back to the sender rather than be delivered to all the recipients. Such a filter could also help enforcing the list rules about "no large attachments" and "no HTML". Perhaps this is something for the administrator(s) to consider? I think most of the needed functionality---the notable exception is the part about attachments---comes out of the box with SpamBouncer (http://www.spambouncer.org/). This program is essentially a collection of procmail recepies, which means adding tests is probably not very hard. In my experience it catches most spam (at least most of the spam I get), although the two items mentioned above passed all its filters. That could however be due to that our postmaster hasn't updated the program for a while now. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Mon May 20 20:17:56 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08732; Mon, 20 May 2002 20:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta02.mail.mel.aone.net.au (mta02.mail.au.uu.net [203.2.192.82]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4L2HmE12734; Tue, 21 May 2002 04:17:48 +0200 Received: from [63.34.201.139] by mta02.mail.mel.aone.net.au with ESMTP id <20020521021739.MUCO24566.mta02.mail.mel.aone.net.au@[63.34.201.139]>; Tue, 21 May 2002 12:17:39 +1000 Message-ID: <412-22002522122123750@differential01@ozemail> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Fund Raise" To: "\"Fundraiser 21May\" <\"Fund Raise\"" From: "Fund Raise" Subject: Involved In Fundraising? Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 10:21:23 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Involved in Fundraising? Here is the answer you have been looking for!=20 Since 1989, the publishers of the daily (business finance) newspaper for f= undraisers Nonprofit and Charity News have been assisting nonprofits and c= harities=2E=20 Now you too can benefit from their expertise and resources=2E The 99 best case studies from the archives of Nonprofit and Charity News h= ave now been compiled into ONE COMPREHENSIVE MANUAL=2E =2E Written from a = "business finance" perspective, just one idea will reimburse you for the p= urchase many times over=2E What are you waiting for=2E=2E=2E Buy the MANUAL with 99 case studies of the best ever fundraising programs = and earned income ventures before May 16th AND YOU WILL ALSO RECEIVE - FRE= E, AT NO ADDITIONAL COST six months of daily updates of new case studies b= y successful=20 nonprofits and charities=2E =20 The 99 best case studies from the archives of Non-profit and Charity News = have now been compiled into ONE COMPREHENSIVE MANUAL=2E This manual is now= available for US$125 (this price includes express delivery anywhere in th= e world)=2E Plus, we will provide you with updates from Non-profit and Cha= rity News for the next six months - every day=2E=20 Recent purchasers of our manual include The Fundraising Institute of Irela= nd, Save the Children, The Royal Children's Hospital Foundation and Hale S= chool (Perth, Western Australia) - and many more=2E Examples: =93Corporate Partnership=94 case studies from 99 Best Ever Fundr= aising and Earned Income Projects Vol=2E1 Corporate adopts charity =95 The real estate franchise group L=2E J=2E Hooker adopted the charity C= ystic Fibrosis two years ago as its corporate charity=2E=20 =95 In the first year of the relationship, Hookers launched the Ultimate G= arage Sale, and invited everyone in the community to drop off unused - but= saleable - items at their 600 local offices=2E=20 =95 This initiative raised $185,000, which was boosted with a corporate do= nation of $50,000=2E=20 =95 This year they hope to at least surpass that success, particularly as = the company has organised a charity house to be built in Brisbane with don= ated materials=2E=20 =95 When auctioned, this charity house should generate a surplus of $50,00= 0 which will also go to Cystic Fibrosis=2E Companies use charities for publicity =95 There is a growing trend for companies to use charities to generate pu= blicity - with or without the consent of the charity=2E=20 =95 The franchise hairdressing chain Just Cuts took a more responsible att= itude and earned enormous publicity throughout NSW with its promotion to d= onate $1 to charity for every haircut in its salons on a Saturday in Febru= ary=2E=20 =95 Their PR firm went to work and - by using photos from local salons - w= as able to get exposure for Just Cuts in various local newspapers=2E=20 =95 64 salons participated and $25,000 was raised for the Sydney Children=92= s Hospital at Randwick=2E Examples: =93Community Focus=94 case studies from 99 Best Ever Fundraising= and Earned Income Projects Vol=2E1 Celebrity chefs pool talents =95 The annual luncheon catered by the Great Chefs of Adelaide raises over= $50,000 for the Archbishop=92s Appeal, and its beneficiary Anglicare=2E=20= =95 Most of the fine wine and food is donated, the chefs give their time f= or free, as do students from the Regency Hotel School - who do the support= cooking and act as waiters for the 300+ guests=2E=20 =95 The event is held on a Sunday at the Adelaide Town Hall and is markete= d to those who like to have a long Sunday lunch with friends=2E Opportunity in credit card over-ride=20 =95 If you have a large number of affluent supporters on your database, cr= edit card income could be of interest to you=2E=20 =95 For example, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animal= s offers Amex credit cards to its database of 70,000 names=2E=20 =95 Amex will then pay a usage fee back to the animal welfare agency=2E=20= =95 The numbers work like this =96 if 5% of names take up the offer, and i= f they each spend $10,000 a year on their card, and if Amex pays 0=2E25% o= n usage, then the RSPCA will earn $87,500 annually=2E=20 =95 However the demographics of the RSPCA supporter base are unlikely to s= upport these figures =96 firstly a typical supporter is unlikely to be in = an age group that would be keen to accept another credit card, secondly th= ey are unlikely to spend $10,000 annually on credit=2E=20 =95 All marketing expenses are met by Amex, and there is no breaching of P= rivacy Code legislation because you are marketing to your own members=2E=20= =95 Save the Children, AIDS Trust, and the Starlight Children=92s Foundati= on are also part of a growing number of community business enterprises tha= t offer a branded credit card issued by American Express=2E =20 To order your manual, just complete the form below and send to fundraise@c= hina=2Ecom or call (61 3)=A0 8610 1022 or fax (61 3) 8610 1023 Don't miss out - offer expires on May 23rd, 2002 Yes! I would like more information e-Mail =20 Number of Fundraising Manuals: =20 First Name: =20 Last Name: =20 Company =20 Position =20 Address =20 Address Cont=2E =20 Post Code =20 Phone =20 Fax =20 Web Site: Credit Card: =20 =09Select One =09Amex =09BankCard =09Diners =09MasterCard =09Visa =09Will fax details Card Number =20 Cardholders Name =20 Expiry Date =20 Don't Delay - Order Now! If you do not wish to receive further promotional material from us, please= reply to this email with "remove" in the subject line=2E=20 =A0 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Best 99 Fundraising Case Studies

Involv= ed in=20 Fundraising?
Here is t= he=20 answer you have been looki= ng=20 for!

Since = 1989, the publishers of the daily (business finance) newspaper for fundrai= sers 
Nonprofit and Charity News have been assisting nonprofits and chariti= es=2E 
Now you too can benefi= t from their expertise and resources=2E

The 99 best case studie= s from=20 the archives of Nonprofit = and=20 Charity News have now been= =20 compiled into ONE=20 COMPREHENSIVE MANUAL=2E= =2E=20 Written from a "busin= ess=20 finance" perspective,= just=20 one idea will reimburs= e you for the purchase many t= imes over=2E

What are you waiting fo= r=2E=2E=2E

Buy the MANUAL with 99 case studies of the best ever fundraising programs and ear= ned income ventures before May 23rd AND YOU WILL ALSO RECEIVE - FREE, AT NO ADDITIONAL= COST six months of daily updates of new case studies by successful nonpro= fits and charities=2E


The 99 best case studies from the archives of Nonprofit and Charit= y News=20 have now been compiled into ONE COMPREHENSIVE=20 MANUAL=2E This manual is now available for US$125 (this price=20= includes express delivery anywhere in the world)=2E Plus, we will = provide=20 you with updates from Nonprofit and Charity News for the next six = months=20 - every day=2E=20

Recent purchasers of our manual include The Fundraising Institute = of Ireland, Save the Children, The Royal Children's=20 Hospital Foundation and Hale School (Perth, Western Australia) - a= nd many more=2E


Exampl= es: =93Corporate=20 Partnership=94 case=20 studies
from 99 Best Eve= r=20 Fundraising and Earned Inc= ome=20 Projects Vol=2E1

= Corporate adopts charity

  • The real estate fran= chise=20 group L=2E J=2E Hooker a= dopted the=20 charity Cystic Fibrosis = two=20 years ago as its corpora= te=20 charity=2E
  • In the first year of= the=20 relationship, Hookers la= unched=20 the Ultimate Garage Sale= , and=20 invited everyone in the=20= community to drop off un= used -=20 but saleable - items at = their=20 600 local offices=2E
  • This initiative rais= ed=20 $185,000, which was boos= ted=20 with a corporate donatio= n of=20 $50,000=2E
  • This year they hope = to at=20 least surpass that succe= ss,=20 particularly as the comp= any=20 has organised a charity = house=20 to be built in Brisbane = with=20 donated materials=2E
  • When auctioned, this= =20 charity house should gen= erate=20 a surplus of $50,000 whi= ch=20 will also go to Cystic=20= Fibrosis=2E

Companies use charit= ies=20 for publicity

  • There is a growing t= rend=20 for companies to use cha= rities=20 to generate publicity - = with=20 or without the consent o= f the=20 charity=2E
  • The franchise hairdr= essing=20 chain Just Cuts took a m= ore=20 responsible attitude and= =20 earned enormous publicit= y=20 throughout NSW with its=20= promotion to donate $1 t= o=20 charity for every haircu= t in=20 its salons on a Saturday= in=20 February=2E
  • Their PR firm went t= o work=20 and - by using photos fr= om=20 local salons - was able = to get=20 exposure for Just Cuts i= n=20 various local newspapers= =2E
  • 64 salons participat= ed and=20 $25,000 was raised for t= he=20 Sydney Children=92s Hosp= ital at=20 Randwick=2E

Examples: =93Community=20 Focus=94 case=20 studies
from 99 Best Eve= r=20 Fundraising and Earned Inc= ome=20 Projects Vol=2E1

= Celebrity chefs pool talen= ts

  • The annual luncheon=20= catered by the Great Che= fs of=20 Adelaide raises over $50= ,000=20 for the Archbishop=92s A= ppeal,=20 and its beneficiary Angl= icare=2E
  • Most of the fine win= e and=20 food is donated, the che= fs=20 give their time for free= , as=20 do students from the Reg= ency=20 Hotel School - who do th= e=20 support cooking and act = as=20 waiters for the 300+ gue= sts=2E
  • The event is held on= a=20 Sunday at the Adelaide T= own=20 Hall and is marketed to = those=20 who like to have a long = Sunday=20 lunch with friends=2E

Opportunity in credi= t card=20 over-ride

  • If you have a large = number=20 of affluent supporters o= n your=20 database, credit card in= come=20 could be of interest to = you=2E
  • For example, the Roy= al=20 Society for the Preventi= on of=20 Cruelty to Animals offer= s Amex=20 credit cards to its data= base=20 of 70,000 names=2E
    • =
  • Amex will then pay a= usage=20 fee back to the animal w= elfare=20 agency=2E
  • The numbers work lik= e this=20 =96 if 5% of names take = up the=20 offer, and if they each = spend=20 $10,000 a year on their = card,=20 and if Amex pays 0=2E25%= on=20 usage, then the RSPCA wi= ll=20 earn $87,500 annually=2E=
  • However the demograp= hics=20 of the RSPCA supporter b= ase=20 are unlikely to support = these=20 figures =96 firstly a ty= pical=20 supporter is unlikely to= be in=20 an age group that would = be=20 keen to accept another c= redit=20 card, secondly they are=20= unlikely to spend $10,00= 0=20 annually on credit=2E
  • All marketing expens= es are=20 met by Amex, and there i= s no=20 breaching of Privacy Cod= e=20 legislation because you = are=20 marketing to your own me= mbers=2E
  • Save the Children, A= IDS=20 Trust, and the Starlight= =20 Children=92s Foundation = are also=20 part of a growing number= of=20 community business enter= prises=20 that offer a branded cre= dit=20 card issued by American=20= Express=2E

Don't miss out - offer expires on May 23rd, 2002

To order you manual, just complete the form below or call (61 3) = ; 8610 1022 or fax (61 3) 8610 1023

 
Yes! I would like to order
e= -Mail
N= umber of Fundraising Manuals:
F= irst Name: =
L= ast Name: <= /td>
N= onprofit/Charity
P= osition
A= ddress
A= ddress Cont=2E <= /td>
P= ost Code =
C= ountry <= /strong>
P= hone
F= ax
W= eb Site:
= Credit Card:
= Card Number
= Cardholders Name
= Expiry Date
Don't Delay - Order Now!

Your request is = sent by=20 eMail - just check your 'Sent Item= s' to=20 confirm that it has been submitted= =20 successfully=2E

If you do not wish to receive further promotiona= l=20 material from us, please reply to this email with "remove&= quot; in the=20 subject line=2E

 
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------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From tex-fonts-errors Tue May 21 06:46:32 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (IDENT:gMwr0i1bF2aqEOnaNwIx0Z0zMnfrmJGP@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.20]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14752; Tue, 21 May 2002 06:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA02725; Tue, 21 May 2002 06:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:46:32 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@sunshine.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: From the list administrator: spam on the tex-fonts list Message-ID: Yes, we are seeing a significant increase in the incidence of spam everywhere on the net, not just on the tex-fonts list. One flavor that I routinely get is the offer of, say, one million email addresses (for a new low price) so that I too can join the spammers. Yuck! None of the spam that has been posted to the tex-fonts list has come >From list members. Recently, we are seeing spam instances where the message's From: address has been set to a legitimate one selected from users at our site, instead of the bogus addresses typical in the past. I've already removed 53 spam messages from today's incoming mail in my own mailbox, and I expect to find dozens more yet, sigh... I intend to move the tex-fonts and tex-archive lists to the control of a mailing list program (possibly GNU mailman), configured to permit posting only from list members. However, because of my busy schedule, this is going to take some time, so for now, please keep your fingers near the delete key. In the meantime, let's keep the tex-fonts list on subject, and drop the spam discussion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 22 15:14:41 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14795 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 15:14:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from promotoresdeseguros.com (MC30-148.intelnet.net.gt [216.230.148.30] (may be forged)) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g4MLEZE27818 for ; Wed, 22 May 2002 23:14:35 +0200 Received: from C0RE (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by promotoresdeseguros.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g4MLCrk31189; Wed, 22 May 2002 15:12:54 -0600 Message-ID: <412-22002532221921599@C0RE> X-Priority: 3 To: "rf5" From: "Jake Swanson" Subject: Benefits in Content Management Software Webinar Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 14:09:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Amavis-Warning: last hop is listed in ORDB ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Space is Limited for our FREE Seminar on June 6th featuring the latest in= Content Management Software and unique examples that will enhance your co= mpany's online objectives=2E=20 This free online seminar is a great opportunity for system integrators, we= b agencies and VARs to learn more about simplifying and speeding the typic= ally complex processes of building and/or extending a dynamic Web, Intrane= t or Extranet site for their customers wish list integrating with their ex= isting systems and infrastructure=2E They will also learn how to generate = revenue from the SMB market with packaged solutions=2E=20 There is no cost for this seminar, and you may participate from the comfor= t of your desk, home or wherever you may be able to connect to the interne= t=2E We assure you, you won't want to miss it=2E=20 The seminar will explore the following: Speed Time-to-market and Reduce Development Costs=20 Allocate Resources Better and Increase Revenue=20 Reduce Cost of Ownership and Increase Customer Satisfaction=20 Leverage Reef Alliances with Industry Leaders=20 Win New Business=20 WHAT: Free Online Seminar for VARs, Web Agencies and System Integrators WHEN: Thursday - June 6th, 9am to 10am PST WHERE: Your Web Browser (Internet Explorer or Netscape--Your choice!)=20 Click Here to Register =20 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Document
Space is Limited= for our=20 FREE Seminar on June 6th featuring the latest in Content Management Softwa= re and unique examples that will enhance your company's online objectives=2E= =20

This free online seminar is a great opportunity for system integrators, we= b agencies and VARs to learn more about simplifying and speeding the typic= ally complex processes of building and/or extending a dynamic Web, Intrane= t or Extranet site for their customers wish list integrating with their ex= isting systems and infrastructure=2E They will also learn how to generate = revenue from the SMB market with packaged solutions=2E

There is no cost for this seminar, and you may participate from the comfor= t of your desk, home or wherever you may be able to connect to the interne= t=2E We assure you, you won't want to miss it=2E=20

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------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From tex-fonts-errors Wed May 22 19:21:20 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from relay.eticomm.net (mail.eticomm.net [204.213.252.17]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20432; Wed, 22 May 2002 19:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from root by relay.eticomm.net with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17AhHa-000EQi-00; Wed, 22 May 2002 21:20:46 -0400 Received: from [128.110.198.2] (helo=sunshine.math.utah.edu ident=[5/1U3Rp5G2z74NfURMVnZsZDSsV1vamj]) by relay.eticomm.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17A96n-0006sT-00 for camm@enhanced.com; Tue, 21 May 2002 08:51:22 -0400 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (IDENT:gMwr0i1bF2aqEOnaNwIx0Z0zMnfrmJGP@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.20]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14752; Tue, 21 May 2002 06:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA02725; Tue, 21 May 2002 06:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 06:46:32 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@sunshine.math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: From the list administrator: spam on the tex-fonts list Message-ID: X-Envelope-To: camm@enhanced.com Yes, we are seeing a significant increase in the incidence of spam everywhere on the net, not just on the tex-fonts list. One flavor that I routinely get is the offer of, say, one million email addresses (for a new low price) so that I too can join the spammers. Yuck! None of the spam that has been posted to the tex-fonts list has come >From list members. Recently, we are seeing spam instances where the message's From: address has been set to a legitimate one selected from users at our site, instead of the bogus addresses typical in the past. I've already removed 53 spam messages from today's incoming mail in my own mailbox, and I expect to find dozens more yet, sigh... I intend to move the tex-fonts and tex-archive lists to the control of a mailing list program (possibly GNU mailman), configured to permit posting only from list members. However, because of my busy schedule, this is going to take some time, so for now, please keep your fingers near the delete key. In the meantime, let's keep the tex-fonts list on subject, and drop the spam discussion. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 585 1640, +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tex-fonts-errors Sat May 25 08:34:48 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from vsu.ru (relay1.vsu.ru [62.76.169.14]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05319 for ; Sat, 25 May 2002 08:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from video.uic.vsu.ru ([62.76.169.38] verified) by vsu.ru (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with ESMTP id 864831; Sat, 25 May 2002 18:34:36 +0400 To: CyrTeX-en@vsu.ru, CyrTeX-ru@vsu.ru Cc: tex-live@tug.org, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu, tetex@informatik.uni-hannover.de, ntg-vtex@ntg.nl Subject: CM-Super font package v0.3.3 released From: Vladimir Volovich Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 18:36:10 +0400 Message-ID: Lines: 36 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) Emacs/21.1 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi! i've released the CM-Super font package v0.3.3 major changes: * Added Computer Modern Bright super-fonts: 19 *.pfb and *.afm.gz files, and corresponding entries in the MAP files. * Generated precise (non-integer) widths for Concrete fonts. (which were forgotten in previous version) see ChangeLog for other changes. So, now CM-Super package supports the following TeX fonts: * all EC fonts (T1 encoding) * all TC fonts (TS1 encoding) * all EC/TC Concrete fonts (T1/TS1 encodings) * all EC/TC Bright fonts (T1/TS1 encodings) * LH fonts matching font families of EC fonts (T2A/T2B/T2C/X2 encodings) * LH fonts for Concrete font families (T2A/T2B/T2C/X2 encodings) * LH fonts for CM-Bright font families (T2A/T2B/T2C/X2 encodings) There are 434 Type 1 outline fonts (*.pfb) in the CM-Super font set, and they cover 2536 TeX fonts! [however, currently 25 Type 1 fonts are still missing] changes in PFB files: 14 files for Concrete fonts were changed, and 19 new files for Bright fonts were added. All other files did not change. The CM-Super font package should be mirrored tomorrow to CTAN:fonts/ps-type1/cm-super Best, v. From tex-fonts-errors Sun May 26 08:31:09 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15512 for ; Sun, 26 May 2002 08:31:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from spqr-dell ([213.107.68.219]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020526143107.BTLO28297.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@spqr-dell>; Sun, 26 May 2002 15:31:07 +0100 Received: from rahtz by spqr-dell with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17BzvF-000267-00; Sun, 26 May 2002 16:27:05 +0100 Date: Sun, 26 May 2002 16:27:05 +0100 From: Sebastian Rahtz To: Vladimir Volovich Cc: CyrTeX-en@vsu.ru, CyrTeX-ru@vsu.ru, tex-live@tug.org, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu, tetex@informatik.uni-hannover.de, ntg-vtex@ntg.nl Subject: Re: [tex-live] CM-Super font package v0.3.3 released Message-ID: <20020526152705.GP3044@spqr-dell> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i Sender: Sebastian Rahtz On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 06:36:10PM +0400, Vladimir Volovich wrote: > > i've released the CM-Super font package v0.3.3 it will be on TeX Live 7. -- Sebastian Rahtz OUCS Information Manager 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431 From tex-fonts-errors Mon May 27 14:10:04 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.20.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29699 for ; Mon, 27 May 2002 14:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 27 May 2002 15:01:54 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-font@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 15:01:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = HSCS20011005@ombramarketing.com Recipient(s) = tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject = Scanning Time = 05/27/2002 15:01:50 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/289 Action on message: The attachment tsctl[1].pif matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\tsctl[1]3cf290ad16c.pif_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Tue May 28 23:00:50 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.20.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24485 for ; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:00:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 28 May 2002 23:52:37 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 23:52:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = slucht@hartel.net Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = Privacy Policy Scanning Time = 05/28/2002 23:52:35 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/291 Action on message: The attachment HEIGHT.pif matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\HEIGHT3cf45e92178.pif_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. 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If you are liquid for a $10,000 investment, email your name, address, and phone number to oilandgaspackage@aol.com and we will send you the information ================================================================= To Unsubscribe from these special mailings: Forward this mail with "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the subject line to oilandgasremoval@aol.com ================================================================= qvexrigyecxgborb From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jun 2 15:15:47 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from workgrou-nm3n4z (218-162-27-54.HINET-IP.hinet.net [218.162.27.54]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA08681; Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 15:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tcts by pavo.seed.net.tw with SMTP id lA9TrvZVwkikvSAYtB; Mon, 03 Jun 2002 05:18:45 +0800 Message-ID: From: fgddd@ms23.hinet.net To: \¹q1.TXT, \ªi¾1.TXT, \ªi°Q1.TXT Subject: twALFj93qhGoG38nTz =?big5?Q?SS=AC=A1=A8=EC=A6=D1=ABo=A4=A3=ADn=B0=B5=A8=EC=A6=D1?= omgrUE9uNS4K9z7GWb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_OUrOVHYA9P1iW80VYAgTePHYmm2Sx" X-Mailer: Nw14JlFq3tRdCsvIHK5G9M6ohg X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_OUrOVHYA9P1iW80VYAgTePHYmm2Sx Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_OUrOVHYA9P1iW80VYAgTePHYmm2SxAA" ------=_NextPart_OUrOVHYA9P1iW80VYAgTePHYmm2SxAA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQoNCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1MYW5ndWFnZSIgY29u dGVudD0iemgtdHciPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0 ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9YmlnNSI+DQo8bWV0YSBuYW1lPSJHRU5FUkFUT1IiIGNvbnRlbnQ9 Ik1pY3Jvc29mdCBGcm9udFBhZ2UgNC4wIj4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IlByb2dJZCIgY29udGVudD0i RnJvbnRQYWdlLkVkaXRvci5Eb2N1bWVudCI+DQo8dGl0bGU+pEilzaaztFit0zIwpn48L3RpdGxl Pg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KDQo8Ym9keT4NCg0KPHA+U0RHU0dKSDwvcD4NCjxwPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSIj RkYwMDAwIj6n2iYjMjAyMDQ7r3WqurdRwLCnVbF6LK1Zq0Sxerl3tMG90KijvcwhIcHCwcI8L2Zv bnQ+PC9wPg0KPHA+pEilzaaztFit0zEwpn48L3A+DQo8cD6xeqtPw9KkVa3TMTCmfqTxsnumQaZu ttw/PC9wPg0KPHA+tbmm26R2pECt062rt3O/777cqrq+97d8PC9wPg0KPHA+PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0 cDovL2RhdmlkLmg4aC5jb20iPr/vue+m5rd+pPGnVqRPpHWnQKSkrautbjwvYT48L3A+DQo8cD6n xrHmsXqsT8C0sW+n4rSkvve3fKq6pEg8L3A+DQo8cD5IR1NOSjwvcD4NCg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KDQo8 L2h0bWw+ ------=_NextPart_OUrOVHYA9P1iW80VYAgTePHYmm2SxAA-- ------=_NextPart_OUrOVHYA9P1iW80VYAgTePHYmm2Sx-- From tex-fonts-errors Mon Jun 3 02:23:37 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13540 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 02:23:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PC-1. ([202.108.68.140]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g538NQD03187 for ; Mon, 3 Jun 2002 10:23:27 +0200 x-esmtp: 0 0 1 Message-ID: <841319-220026022124828@202.108.35.190> To: "NEW020515" From: "Ë÷ÁèÍøÂçÓªÏú·þÎñÖÐÐÄ" Subject: ÍøÉÏËѼ¯Ä¿±ê¿Í»§Èº£¬emailÓʼþȺ·¢ºÍµØÖ·ËÑË÷Èí¼þ Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 10:01:24 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =B1=B1=BE=A9=CB=F7=C1=E8=CD=F8=C2=E7=D3=AA=CF=FA=D6=D0=D0=C4</title= > <meta 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name=3Dkeywords> <link rel=3D"stylesheet" href=3D"=2E=2E/mailsending=2Ecom0323/style=2Ecss"= type=3D"text/css"> <base target=3D"_self"> <script language=3D"JavaScript"> <!-- Begin var ver =3D navigator=2EappVersion; if (ver=2EindexOf("MSIE") !=3D -1) go(); function go(){ if ((screen=2Ewidth =3D=3D 1024) && (screen=2Eheight =3D=3D 768)){ self=2EresizeTo(800,600)} if ((screen=2Ewidth =3D=3D 800) && (screen=2Eheight =3D=3D 600)){ self=2EresizeTo(800,580) self=2EmoveTo(0,0)} else if ((screen=2Ewidth =3D=3D 640) && (screen=2Eheight =3D=3D 480)){ alert("=C4=FA=BA=C3=A3=AC=E4=AF=C0=C0=B1=BE=D5=BE=BD=A8=D2=E9=CA=B9=D3=C38= 00*600=B5=C4=B7=D6=B1=E6=C2=CA=A3=A1") } } // End --> </script> </head> <body bgcolor=3D"#CCCCCC" text=3D"#000000" leftMargin=3D0 topMargin=3D0> <table width=3D"770" border=3D"0" align=3D"center" cellpadding=3D"0" cells= pacing=3D"0" height=3D"1" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> <tr>=20 <td><font size=3D"2"><img src=3D"file:///D|/My%20Webs/images/1x1=2Egif= " width=3D"1" 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=C8=BF=EC=A1=A2=D0=A7=C2=CA=B8=DF=B5=C8=D3=C5=CA=C6=A3=AC=B7=C7=B3=A3=CA=CA= =BA=CF=B5=CD=B3=C9=B1=BE=B7=A2=B2=BC=B2=FA=C6=B7=BA=CD=D2=B5=CE=F1=D0=C5=CF= =A2=BB=F2=CD=C6=B9=E3=CD=F8=D5=BE=2E=C0=FD=C8=E7=A3=BA=D5=D0=C9=FA=C5=E0=D1= =B5=A1=A2=B4=D9=CF=FA=D0=C5=CF=A2=A1=A2=B8=F7=C0=E0=BF=EC=D1=B6=A1=A2=CD=F8= =D5=BE=B7=A2=B2=BC=A1=A2=BB=EE=B6=AF=D4=A4=B8=E6=B5=C8=A1=A3</font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2">=B1=B1=BE=A9=CB= =F7=C1=E8=CD=F8=C2=E7=D3=AA=CF=FA=B7=FE=CE=F1=D6=D0=D0=C4 =20= =B5=D8=D6=B7=A3=BA=B1=B1=BE=A9=CA=D0=BA=A3=B5=ED=C7=F8=B3=A4=B4=BA= =C7=C5=C2=B75=BA=C5=D0=C2=C6=F0=B5=E3=B4=F3=CF=C36=BA=C5311=CA=D2  =20= =D3=CA=B1=E0=A3=BA100089 <br> =B5=E7=BB=B0 Tel:0086-10-82643511/12/13/14   =B4=AB=D5=E6= Fax: =20 0086-10-82643514<br> =C8=E7=B9=FB=C4=FA=B6=D4=CE=D2=C3=C7=B5=C4=B7=FE=CE=F1=D3=D0=C8=CE= =BA=CE=D2=E2=BC=FB=BB=F2=BD=A8=D2=E9=A3=AC=C7=EB=BB=DD=B4=CD<font face=3D"= Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">E-mail</font>=D6=C1=A3=BA<font face=3D"Arial= , Helvetica, sans-serif"><a href=3D"mailto:info@mailsending=2Ecom">info@ma= ilsending=2Ecom</a></font>=20 </font>=20 </p> <table border=3D1 bordercolor=3D= #ffffff cellpadding=3D2=20 cellspacing=3D0 width=3D97% align=3D"center"> <tbody>=20 <tr>=20 <td width=3D24% bgcolor=3D"#= 666666">=20 <div align=3Dcenter class=3D= a><font=20 color=3D#ffffff size=3D"2">=B2=FA=C6=B7=A1=A2=B7=FE= =CE=F1=A1=A2=BC=DB=B8=F1</font></div> </td> <td bgcolor=3D"#666666" heig= ht=3D"18" width=3D"76%">=20 <div align=3Dcenter class=3D= a><font=20 color=3D#ffffff size=3D"2">=CF=EA=CF=B8=D7=CA=C1=CF= </font></div> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=3D"#FFEDE6">=20 <td height=3D94 width=3D24% = class=3D"P170">=20 <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = size=3D"2">E-Mail=B5=D8=D6=B7(=C6=D5=CD=A8)<br> <font color=3D"#CC0000">= 100=D4=AA/5=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></font></p> </div> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">160=D4=AA/10=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">500=D4=AA/50=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> </td> <td height=3D94 class=3D"P15= 0" width=3D"76%" bgcolor=3D"#FFEDE6">=20 <div align=3D"left"><span = class=3D"P170"><font face=3D"Wingdings" color=3D"#990000"><font size=3D"2"= >Ÿ=20 </font> =20 </font><font size=3D"2">= =C4=FA=B5=C4=C6=F3=D2=B5=D0=E8=D2=AA=D4=DA=D7=EE=B6=CC=B5=C4=CA=B1=BC=E4=C4= =DA=C8=C3=D7=EE=B6=E0=B5=C4=C8=CB=D6=AA=B5=C0=A3=AC=B6=F8=B2=BB=D0=E8=D2=AA= =B9=D8=D0=C4=B6=D4=B7=BD=CA=C7=CB=AD(=D6=D0=B9=FA=B4=F3=C2=BD=B7=B6=CE=A7=C4= =DA)=A3=BB<br> <font face=3D"Wingdings"= color=3D"#990000">Ÿ =20 </font>=C4=FA=B5=C4=C6=F3= =D2=B5=D0=E8=D2=AA=D4=DA=B9=FA=C4=DA=BC=B0=D1=C7=D6=DE=B5=D8=C7=F8=BD=A8=C1= =A2=C6=F3=D2=B5=BF=CD=BB=A7=C8=BA=A3=AC=B7=A2=BE=F2=C7=B1=D4=DA=D3=C3=BB=A7= =A3=BB<br> <font face=3D"Wingdings"= color=3D"#990000">Ÿ =20 </font>=C4=FA=D0=E8=D2=AA= =D4=DA=D7=EE=B6=CC=B5=C4=CA=B1=BC=E4=C4=DA=CD=EA=C9=C6=C4=FA=B5=C4=B9=FA=C4= =DA=C6=F3=D2=B5=D0=CE=CF=F3=A3=BB<br> <font face=3D"Wingdings"= color=3D"#990000">Ÿ =20 </font>=C4=FA=D0=E8=D2=AA= =D4=DA=BC=AB=B4=F3=B7=B6=CE=A7=C4=DA=B5=C4=C8=CB=C8=BA=D6=D0=D7=F6=D3=D0=BD= =B1=B5=F7=B2=E9=A1=A2=CD=B6=C6=B1=B5=C8=A3=BB</font></span> </div> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=3D"#FFF5F0">=20 <td height=3D54 width=3D24% = class=3D"P170">=20 <div align=3Dcenter><font = size=3D"2">E-Mail=B5=D8=D6=B7(=B6=A8=CF=F2)<font color=3D"#CC0000"><br> </font>=20 </font>=20 <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">300=D4=AA/1=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">1200=D4=AA/5=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">1800=D4=AA/10=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> </div> </td> <td height=3D54 class=3D"P15= 0" width=3D"76%">=20 <div align=3D"left"><font = face=3D"Wingdings" color=3D"#990000"><font size=3D"2">Ÿ=20 </font> =20 </font><font size=3D"2">= =C4=FA<span class=3D"P170">=B5=C4=C6=F3=D2=B5=D0=E8=D2=AA=D4=DA=B9=FA=C4=DA= =B2=BF=B7=D6=D6=D8=B5=E3=B3=C7=CA=D0=BD=A8=C1=A2=C6=F3=D2=B5=BF=CD=BB=A7=C8= =BA=A3=AC=B7=A2=BE=F2=C7=B1=D4=DA=D3=C3=BB=A7=A3=BB<br> <font face=3D"Wingdings"= color=3D"#990000">Ÿ =20 </font>=C4=FA=B5=C4=D2=B5= =CE=F1=B7=B6=CE=A7=C4=BF=C7=B0=D6=BB=CF=DE=D3=DA=B1=BE=B5=D8=BB=F2=C4=B3=B5= =A5=B6=C0=B3=C7=CA=D0=A3=BB<br> <font face=3D"Wingdings"= color=3D"#990000">Ÿ =20 </font>=C4=FA=D0=E8=D2=AA= =D4=DA=D7=EE=B6=CC=B5=C4=CA=B1=BC=E4=C4=DA=CC=E1=B8=DF=B2=FA=C6=B7=B5=C4=B5= =B1=B5=D8=CF=FA=CA=DB=C1=BF=A3=BB<br> <font face=3D"Wingdings"= color=3D"#990000">Ÿ =20 </font>=C4=FA=D0=E8=D2=AA= =D4=DA=D7=EE=B6=CC=B5=C4=CA=B1=BC=E4=C4=DA=B7=A2=CB=CD=A3=AC=C0=FD=C8=E7=C7= =F3=BE=C8(=D6=FA)=D0=C5=A3=AC =20 =D2=D4=BC=B0=B8=F7=C0=E0= =B9=A9=C7=F3=D0=C5=CF=A2=A3=BB</span></font></div> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor=3D#FFede6>=20 <td height=3D77 width=3D24% = class=3D"P170">=20 <div align=3Dcenter style=3D= "width: 113; height: 135"><font size=3D"2">=B9=E3=B8=E6=D3=CA=BC=FE=B7=A2=CB= =CD(=C6=D5=CD=A8)<br> </font> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">200=D4=AA/10=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">600=D4=AA/50=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">900=D4=AA/100=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> </div> </td> <td height=3D77 class=3D"P15= 0" width=3D"76%">=20 <div align=3D"left"><font = face=3D"Wingdings" color=3D"#990000"><font size=3D"2">Ÿ=20 </font> =20 </font><font size=3D"2">= <span class=3D"P170">=CC=D8=B5=E3=A3=BA=BC=DB=B8=F1=B1=E3=D2=CB=A1=A2=B8=B2= =B8=C7=C3=E6=B9=E3<br> <font face=3D"Wingdings"= color=3D"#990000">Ÿ =20 </font>=BE=DF=CC=E5=D6=B8= =CB=E6=BB=FA=B5=D8=D4=DA=CE=D2=C3=C7=B5=C4=B4=F3=D6=DA=D0=CD=CA=FD=BE=DD=BF= =E2=D6=D0=CB=E6=BB=FA=B3=E9=C8=A1=D2=BB=B2=BF=B7=D6=B5=E7=D7=D3=D3=CA=BC=FE= =B5=D8=D6=B7=BD=F8=D0=D0=B7=A2=CB=CD=A1=A3=B9=E3=B8=E6=BD=D3=CA=DC=B7=BD=BF= =C9=B7=D6=CE=AA=B9=FA=C4=DA=BA=CD=B9=FA=BC=CA=B7=B6=CE=A7=A3=AC =20= =CE=D2=C3=C7=B1=A3=D6=A4= =CB=F9=D3=D0=B5=C4=D3=CA=BC=FE=B5=D8=D6=B7=B6=BC=BE=AD=B9=FD=B3=CC=D0=F2=D0= =A3=D1=E9=C7=D2=B6=D4=B7=BD=D4=F8=D0=ED=BF=C9=BD=D3=CA=D5=C0=E0=CB=C6=B9=E3= =B8=E6=D0=C5=CF=A2=A1=A3=BE=AD=B2=E2=CA=D4=C6=BD=BE=F9=BB=D8=D3=A6=C2=CA=B3= =AC=B9=FD5%=A1=A3</span></font></div> </td> </tr> <tr>=20 <td height=3D58 width=3D24% = bgcolor=3D"#FFF5F0" class=3D"P170">=20 <div align=3Dcenter><font = size=3D"2">=B9=E3=B8=E6=D3=CA=BC=FE=B7=A2=CB=CD(=B6=A8=CF=F2)<font color=3D= "#CC0000"><br> </font>=20 </font>=20 <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">380=D4=AA/10=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">1500=D4=AA/50=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> <div align=3Dcenter>=20 <p class=3D"P170"><font = color=3D"#CC0000" size=3D"2">2000=D4=AA/100=CD=F2=B8=F6</font></p> </div> </div> </td> <td height=3D58 bgcolor=3D"#= FFF5F0" class=3D"P150" width=3D"76%">=20 <div align=3D"left"><font = face=3D"Wingdings" color=3D"#990000"><font size=3D"2">Ÿ=20 </font> =20 </font><font size=3D"2">= =CC=D8=B5=E3=A3=BA=B8=B2<span class=3D"P170">=B8=C7=C3=E6=BC=AF=D6=D0=A1=A2= =D5=EB=B6=D4=D0=D4=BC=AB=C7=BF<br> <font face=3D"Wingdings"= color=3D"#990000">Ÿ =20 </font>=BE=DF=CC=E5=D6=B8= =B8=F9=BE=DD=B9=F3=B9=AB=CB=BE=B5=C4=CA=B5=BC=CA=D0=E8=C7=F3=A3=AC=D4=DA=CE= =D2=C3=C7=CC=E1=B9=A9=B5=C4=B2=BF=B7=D6=B9=FA=C4=DA=B4=F3=D6=D0=B3=C7=CA=D0= =B5=C4=B5=D8=D3=F2=B7=D6=C0=E0=D6=D0=CE=AA=C4=FA=D1=A1=C8=A1=CF=E0=D3=A6=B5= =C4=C0=E0=B1=F0=A3=AC=D3=D0=D5=EB=B6=D4=D0=D4=B5=C4=CE=AA=C4=FA=B7=A2=CB=CD= =C9=CC=D2=B5=D0=C5=CF=A2=A1=A3=CC=D8=B1=F0=C3=E6=CF=F2=C7=B1=D4=DA=BF=CD=BB= =A7=CA=C7=D6=D0=B9=FA=BC=B0=B8=DB=B0=C4=CC=A8=B5=D8=C7=F8=B5=C4=D6=D0=D0=A1= =C6=F3=D2=B5=B5=C4=D3=C3=BB=A7=A3=AC=CE=D2=C3=C7=D3=D0=D7=A8=C8=CB=B8=FA=D7= =D9=BB=D8=C0=A1=D0=C5=CF=A2=A3=AC=B1=A3=D6=A4=B7=A2=CB=CD=D6=CA=C1=BF=A3=AC= =B8=FC=BF=C9=BF=BF=A3=AC=B8=FC=D3=D0=D0=A7=A1=A3=20 </span> </font> </div> <div align=3D"left">=A1=A1= </div> </td> </tr> </tbody>=20 </table> <font size=3D"2"> <img src=3D"cid:223665-22002602216842198@202=2E108=2E35=2E190" width= =3D"6" height=3D"8">=20 =CE=D2<span class=3D"P150">=C3=C7=D3=B5=D3=D0=B3=AC=B9=FD =20= 6,400,000 =B5=C4=D2=D1=BE=AD= </span><span class=3D"P170">=B4=F0=D3=A6=BD=D3=CA=D5=B8=F7=D6=D6=C9=CC=D2=B5= =D0=D4=B5=C4=B5=E7=D7=D3=D3=CA=BC=FE=D0=C5=CF=A2=B5=C4=B8=F6=C8=CB=D3=C3=BB= =A7=A1=A3=B2=A2=C7=D2=C6=E4=B5=D8=D6=B7=CA=FD=C4=BF=D5=FD=D2=D4=C3=BF=CC=EC= 10,000 =20 =B5=C4=CB=D9=B6=C8=D4=F6=B3= =A4=A1=A3=CB=FB=C3=C7=D2=D1=B6=D4=C4=FA=B5=C4=B2=FA=C6=B7=B1=ED=CF=D6=B3=F6= =C5=A8=BA=F1=B5=C4=D0=CB=C8=A4=A1=A3<br> <img src=3D"cid:324396-220= 02602216842199@202=2E108=2E35=2E190" width=3D"6" height=3D"8">=20 =CE=D2=C3=C7=D3=B5=D3=D0=B3= =AC=B9=FD 200 =B8=F6=D6=D0=B9=FA=B4=F3=D6=D0=B3=C7=CA=D0=A3=AC=B0=FC=C0=A8= =CF=E3=B8=DB=A3=AC=CC=A8=CD=E5=BA=CD=B0=C4=C3=C5=B5=C4=B4=F3=B9=E6=C4=A3=B5= =E7=D7=D3=D3=CA=BC=FE=B5=D8=D6=B7=BF=E2(=C0=FD=C8=E7=B1=B1=BE=A9=A1=A2=C9=EE= =DB=DA=A1=A2=CF=E3=B8=DB=B5=C8)=A3=AC=BF=C9=B8=FC=B7=BD=B1=E3=B5=C4=D7=E9=BD= =A8=B5=D8=D3=F2=D0=D4=D3=AA=CF=FA=CD=F8=C2=E7=A1=A3<br> =20 <img src=3D"cid:154937-220= 02602216842200@202=2E108=2E35=2E190" width=3D"6" height=3D"8">=20 =CE=D2=C3=C7=D2=D1=BE=AD=D3= =D0=B3=AC=B9=FD 100 =B5=C4=B3=A4=C6=DA=BF=CD=BB=A7(=B4=F3=B2=BF=B7=D6=CE=AA= =B9=AB=CB=BE) =C3=BF=CC=EC=BE=AD=B9=FD=CE=D2=C3=C7=B5=C4=CD=F8=C2=E7=B7=A2= =CB=CD=CB=FB=C3=C7=B5=C4=C9=CC=D2=B5=D0=C5=CF=A2=A1=A3=D5=E2=C6=E4=D6=D0=BD= =AB=BF=C9=C4=DC=D3=D0=C4=FA=B5=C4=B4=E6=D4=DA=A1=A3</span> =20 </font> =20 <p><b><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-h= ansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><font color=3D"#008000" size=3D"2">=B3= =A3=BC=FB=CE=CA=CC=E2=BB=D8=B4=F0</font></span></b></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2">1=2E<span sty= le=3D"mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Ti= mes New Roman'">=C8=E7=BA=CE=D6=AA=B5=C0=CE=D2=CA=C7=B7=F1=B0=B4=CA=FD=C1=BF= =B8=F8=C4=E3=B7=A2=B9=E3=B8=E6=D0=C5=C1=CB=A3=BF</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2">2<span lang=3D= "EN-US">=2E</span><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman';= mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">=CE=AF=CD=D0=CE=D2=C3=C7=B4=FA=B7= =A2=B9=E3=B8=E6=D3=CA=BC=FE=B5=C4=CA=D6=D0=F8</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><font color=3D"#008000" size=3D= "2">1<span lang=3D"EN-US">=2E=20 </span><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-= hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">=C8=E7=BA=CE=D6=AA=B5=C0=CE=D2=CA=C7= =B7=F1=B0=B4=CA=FD=C1=BF=B8=F8=C4=E3=B7=A2=B9=E3=B8=E6=D0=C5=C1=CB</span><= span lang=3D"EN-US">?</span></font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"= mso-spacerun: yes"><font size=3D"2"> =20 </font></span><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font-family:= 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">=D5=E2=B8=F6= =D2=C9=C2=C7=CA=C7=C3=BF=D2=BB=B8=F6=CD=F8=C2=E7=B5=C4=B3=F5=CA=D6=CB=F9=D3= =F6=B5=BD=B5=C4=A3=AC=D2=B2=C8=B7=CA=B5=CA=C7=B4=F3=B2=BF=B7=D6=C8=CB=CB=F9= =B5=A3=D0=C4=A1=A2=B9=D8=D0=C4=B5=C4=CE=CA=CC=E2=A3=AC=D5=E2=D2=B2=CA=C7=CD= =F8=C2=E7=B5=E7=D7=D3=C9=CC=CE=F1=C4=BF=C7=B0=BB=B9=B4=E6=D4=DA=B5=C4=C8=F5= =B5=E3</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">----</span><span style=3D"mso-ascii-font= -family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">=B2=BB= =C7=E1=D0=C5=A3=AC=CF=E0=B8=F4=D4=B6=A3=AC=C4=D1=D7=B7=BE=BF=A1=A3=B6=F8=CF= =D6=D4=DA=A3=AC=CE=D2=B5=C4=BF=CD=BB=A7=C3=C7=B4=F3=B6=BC=CA=C7=B4=D3=CF=C2= =C3=E6=BC=B8=B7=BD=C3=E6=C0=B4=D7=F7=B3=F6=C5=D0=B6=CF=B5=C4=A3=BA</span><= /font></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left"><font size=3D"2">1<span lang=3D= "EN-US">=2E1</span><span 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Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <YMDEQeuaLNGq@mars.seed.net.tw> Received: from workgrou-nm3n4z (218-162-27-217.HINET-IP.hinet.net [218.162.27.217]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA00283; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from tcts by tcts.seed.net.tw with SMTP id wxofu0675Ju0pGND8jzliAuIdt; Thu, 06 Jun 2002 03:11:46 +0800 Message-ID: <abX@saturn.seed.net.tw> From: vfnbxz@ms13.hinet.net To: \24.OK, \060201.OK, \060202.OK, \21.OK, \23.OK, \0602.OK Subject: fuHWizAc9D8OtsF6rH770KQlg =?big5?Q?=BF=EF=B9=EF=A6=E6=B7~=A4=F1=A7V=A4O=A4u=A7@=AD=AB=ADn?= JEZrPI8aCVYNKHQbMNrYasABgX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_R49Ob1mlpVQnDxm1mjj4c" X-Mailer: PRoWTZpKRG4jrfVr1K1tukhOBYs X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_R49Ob1mlpVQnDxm1mjj4c Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_R49Ob1mlpVQnDxm1mjj4cAA" ------=_NextPart_R49Ob1mlpVQnDxm1mjj4cAA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQoNCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1MYW5ndWFnZSIgY29u dGVudD0iemgtdHciPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0 ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9YmlnNSI+DQo8bWV0YSBuYW1lPSJHRU5FUkFUT1IiIGNvbnRlbnQ9 Ik1pY3Jvc29mdCBGcm9udFBhZ2UgNC4wIj4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IlByb2dJZCIgY29udGVudD0i RnJvbnRQYWdlLkVkaXRvci5Eb2N1bWVudCI+DQo8dGl0bGU+pEilzaaztFit0zIwpn48L3RpdGxl Pg0KPC9oZWFkPg0KDQo8Ym9keT4NCg0KPHA+U0RHU0dKSDwvcD4NCjxwPjxmb250IGNvbG9yPSIj RkYwMDAwIj6n2iYjMjAyMDQ7r3WqurdRwLCnVbF6LK1Zq0Sxerl3tMG90KijvcwhIcHCwcI8L2Zv bnQ+PC9wPg0KPHA+pEilzaaztFit0zEwpn48L3A+DQo8cD6xeqtPw9KkVa3TMTCmfqTxsnumQaZu ttw/PC9wPg0KPHA+tbmm26R2pECt062rt3O/777cqrq+97d8PC9wPg0KPHA+PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0 cDovL2RhdmlkLmg4aC5jb20iPr/vue+m5rd+pPGnVqRPpHWnQKSkrautbjwvYT48L3A+DQo8cD6n 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Beeton <bnb@ams.org>, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Fonts]Re: Adobe Glyph Names <-> Unicode 3.2 (was: Xft and MathML) References: <E17Fcal-0006yH-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk> From: "James H. Cloos Jr." <cloos@jhcloos.com> In-Reply-To: <E17Fcal-0006yH-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk> Newsgroup: comp.text.tex Date: 05 Jun 2002 15:54:07 -0400 Message-ID: <m3lm9tfqn4.fsf@lugabout.jhcloos.org> Lines: 21 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>>> "Markus" == Markus Kuhn <Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk> writes: Markus> It might be very worthwile to start updating the PostScript Markus> glyph names in the various TeX Type1 fonts to match current Markus> standards, as soon as Adobe has updated Markus> http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/type/unicodegn.html Markus> to Unicode 3.2 coverage. Markus> Who is currently on charge of these font files? AMS? comp.text.tex is probably still the best place to discuss that. Perhaps also tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu. I've included both on the CC here. THe cm-super t1 fonts already do follow unicodegn.html, but the math mode fonts are not included. (Verified by looking at the FullName fields of the afm files.) -JimC From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jun 5 15:46:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <antigen@nlr.nl> Received: from smtp-server.nlr.nl (spider.nlr.nl [137.17.80.200]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03427 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 15:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ntintran.nlr.nl (ntintran.nlr.nl [137.17.128.59]) by smtp-server.nlr.nl (8.11.6/8.11.6/NLR 24/01/2001) with ESMTP id g55Ljh4675296; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:45:43 +0200 (CDT) Disclaimer: "The National Aerospace Laboratory NLR DOES NOT ACCEPT ANY FINANCIAL COMMITMENT derived from this message." Received: from mail pickup service by ntintran.nlr.nl with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:45:42 +0200 From: Antigen@nlr.nl To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Antigen Notification:Antigen found VIRUS= W32/Klez.H@m (Norman) virus Message-ID: <NTINTRAN2BNvlY3AdRy000000e4@ntintran.nlr.nl> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2002 21:45:42.0867 (UTC) FILETIME=[57689230:01C20CDA] Date: 5 Jun 2002 23:45:42 +0200 Antigen for Exchange found started~pif infected with VIRUS= W32/Klez.H@m (Norman) virus. The file is currently Removed. The message, "Ending table started in i", was sent from antje and was discovered in Third Storage Group\Breeman, J.H.\Inbox located at National Aerospace Laboratory NLR/First Administrative Group/NTINTRAN. From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jun 5 17:01:29 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <ANCHIM-SA@anchim.chm.anl.gov> Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.20.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04692 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <MA89G9AQ>; Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:02:52 -0500 Message-ID: <F153489CBB21D611991E0004763B06460F6CFA@anchim.chm.anl.gov> From: System Attendant <ANCHIM-SA@anchim.chm.anl.gov> To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" <tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 18:02:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = antje@sex-explorer.com Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = Ending table started in i Scanning Time = 06/05/2002 18:02:50 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/293 Action on message: The attachment started.pif matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\started3cfe989a43.pif_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jun 7 10:02:52 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <events@knowledge-media.com> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05091 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:02:51 -0600 (MDT) From: events@knowledge-media.com Received: from hall.horizondata.com (hall.horizondata.com [66.89.55.100]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g57G2kx13789 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 18:02:47 +0200 Received: from 66.89.55.100 ([66.89.55.103]) by hall.horizondata.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g57FFb027976 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Fri, 7 Jun 2002 11:15:37 -0400 Message-Id: <200206071515.g57FFb027976@hall.horizondata.com> Content-type: text/plain Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 12:03:44 -0400 Subject: Integrating KM, E-learning and Learning Management Breakfast Seminar To: email <tex-fonts@tug.org> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Knowledge Media (KMI) and Autonomy host an Executive Briefing and Webcast: Integrating E-learning, Learning Management and Knowledge Management: Challenges and Opportunities for Human Capital Thursday, June 13 2002 8:30am - 11:00am (Breakfast served) The National Press Club 529 14th Street, NW Washington DC, 20045 Metro Stop - Metro Center To register for the briefing or webcast, go to <http://www.knowledge-media.com/register.html> THE CHALLENGE: In today's knowledge economy, many organizations are reliant on the knowledge and competence of individual organizational members. According to GAO, more than 50% percent of the government's 1.6 million full-time employees will be eligible to retire in the next five years. In addition, 65 percent of the Senior Executive Service will be eligible for retirement by 2004. US organizations spend $100 billion annually on training and consulting, often failing to improve operations. Research indicates only 10 to 20 percent of this training investment results in enhanced job effectiveness. To achieve mission success, organizations have to find a way to capture, index, disseminate and reuse the knowledge, wisdom and experience of their most valuable asset, their knowledge workers. The President's management agenda recognizes this, making Strategic Management of Human Capital an objective and a critical imperative for success. The objective of these emerging systems is to enhance individual and organizational performance through integrated knowledge management and structured organizational learning. Strategic Knowledge Management (SKM) aligns your mission with an integrated web-centric e-learning, learning management, knowledge management solutions to enhance individual and organizational performance, using dynamic, personalized content. The result is on-demand, task-specific, automated, customized, intelligent and seamless access to organizational knowledge and intelligence. THE EXECUTIVE BRIEFING Join other Government and industry leaders at the National Press Club to learn how Knowledge-Media and Autonomy can radically enhance individual and organizational performance using the latest automated knowledge management, learning management and e-learning technologies and standards. This executive briefing will address questions such as: · How can your organization make a strategic case of knowledge management? · How can your organization integrate knowledge management, learning management and e-learning to create radical increases in organizational learning and effectiveness? · How do you leverage new information technologies, in powering the knowledge-based evolution of your organization? · How can your organization benefit from and deploy knowledge management processes, such as knowledge creation, knowledge sharing, knowledge acquisition, knowledge exchange, and knowledge transfer? · How can your organization use the emerging learning management standards (ADL SCORM, IMS) to integrate all reusable knowledge assets to support knowledge worker development and performance? This invitation-only executive briefing will present case examples of key automated knowledge management, learning management and e-learning technologies from Autonomy and Knowledge Media. Relevant best practices of world-class federal agencies and organizations such as Department of Defense, Cable and Wireless and the American Society for Training and Development (ASTD) will be addressed. Discover the best ways to align KM and learning management with business strategy, and avoid key KM pitfalls. Participants will: · Understand the significance of strategic knowledge management, based on the recent KMI book entitled "Strategic Knowledge: The Art and Science of Organizational Learning in the Third Millennium." · Understand the 10-step methodology for integrating KM, learning management and e-learning successfully. · Experience the radical potential of key emerging integrated knowledge management, learning management and e-learning technologies. · Learn about world-class fortune 500 and Federal examples. · Understand the applicability of emerging learning management and knowledge management standards, such as XML and ADL SCORM. THE SPEAKERS: Bill Redeen, Knowledge Media, Chief Knowledge Officer John Cronin, Autonomy, Vice President, Federal Sector Justin Rufo, Autonomy, Manager, Civilian Federal Accounts About Knowledge Media: Knowledge Media is an award-winning leader in web-centric strategic knowledge management, e-learning, learning management and performance support systems development. Clients have included every cabinet-level US Federal agency, Fortune 500 companies, universities, local governments and non-profits. Examples include the American Society for Training and Development, Federal Communications Commission, Office of the Secretary of Defense, Defense Technical Information Center, Defense Information Systems Agency, Department of Education, Food and Drug Administration, Immigration and Naturalization Service, Federal Aviation Administration, Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, Department of Agriculture, National Institutes of Health, National Cancer Institute, U.S. Marine Corps, Cable and Wireless, SABA, National Association of Purchasing Managers, Defense Acquisition University and Office of Personnel Management. Knowledge Media is the developer of SYNERGY 3.0 KnowledgewareTM, a leading-edge KM solution, combining award-winning e-learning, learning management, knowledge management, interactive profile-based e-mail, webcasts, virtual conferences, chat, automated workflow control and collaborative tools to radically enhance organizational and knowledge worker performance. Knowledge Media can be found on the web at: <http://www.knowledge-media.com> About Autonomy: Autonomy, Inc. is a global leader in infrastructure software for the enterprise. Autonomy's technology powers applications dependent upon unstructured information including: knowledge management, e-commerce, customer relationship management, enterprise information portals, enterprise resource planning and online publishing. Autonomy's customer base includes more than 475 global companies and government agencies, including the US Department of Energy, US Department of Defense, NASA, British Aerospace, Clorox, Deutsche Bank, Ericsson, General Motors and Lucent. Visit Autonomy on the Web at <http://www.autonomy.com>. ID: 249082 To Unsubscribe, click here: http://www.knowledge-media.com/unsubscribe.cfm?m=249082 From tex-fonts-errors Sat Jun 8 13:23:06 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21644 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 13:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2ive339.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.12.105] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17Glmk-0006cF-00; Sat, 08 Jun 2002 12:22:03 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020608151402.01d1a810@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 15:20:53 -0400 To: "James H. Cloos Jr." <cloos@jhcloos.com>, Markus Kuhn <Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [Fonts]Re: Adobe Glyph Names <-> Unicode 3.2 (was: Xft and MathML) Cc: fonts@xfree86.org, rbs@maths.uq.edu.au, emuller@adobe.com, Barbara Beeton <bnb@ams.org>, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <m3lm9tfqn4.fsf@lugabout.jhcloos.org> References: <E17Fcal-0006yH-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk> <E17Fcal-0006yH-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_111871703==_.ALT" --=====================_111871703==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:54 PM 6/5/2002 -0400, James H. Cloos Jr. wrote: > >>>>> "Markus" == Markus Kuhn <Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk> writes: > >Markus> It might be very worthwile to start updating the PostScript >Markus> glyph names in the various TeX Type1 fonts to match current >Markus> standards, as soon as Adobe has updated > >Markus> http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/type/unicodegn.html Is there any reason to believe they will? Updating the list itself is not sufficient. PS Type1 font consumers, like ATM, and the built in font support for Type 1 fonts in Windows, would have to be modified. And *that* is a long term project with significant costs (e.g. much larger built-in tables). Also, keep in mind that Adobe has few math or symbol fonts Many Type 1 fonts for TeX (other than math fonts) already pretty much follow the glyph naming conventions (in some cases additionally providing access to a glyph in more than one way in order to deal with uncertainties about support for the standardized glyph naming convention, so e.g. the Euro glyph might be accessible both under the glyph name "Euro" and under "uni20AC"). >Markus> to Unicode 3.2 coverage. > >Markus> Who is currently on charge of these font files? AMS? > >comp.text.tex is probably still the best place to discuss that. >Perhaps also tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu. I've included both on >the CC here. > >THe cm-super t1 fonts already do follow unicodegn.html, but the math >mode fonts are not included. (Verified by looking at the FullName >fields of the afm files.) > >-JimC -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_111871703==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <html> <font size=3>At 03:54 PM 6/5/2002 -0400, James H. Cloos Jr. wrote:<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>>>>>> "Markus" == Markus Kuhn <Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk> writes:<br><br> Markus> It might be very worthwile to start updating the PostScript<br> Markus> glyph names in the various TeX Type1 fonts to match current<br> Markus> standards, as soon as Adobe has updated<br><br> Markus>   <a href="http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/type/unicodegn.html" eudora="autourl">http://partners.adobe.com/asn/developer/type/unicodegn.html</a></font></blockquote><br> Is there any reason to believe they will?<br><br> Updating the list itself is not sufficient. PS Type1 font consumers,<br> like ATM, and the built in font support for Type 1 fonts in Windows,<br> would have to be modified.  And *that* is a long term project<br> with significant costs (e.g. much larger built-in tables).<br><br> Also, keep in mind that Adobe has few math or symbol fonts<br><br> Many Type 1 fonts for TeX (other than math fonts) already pretty<br> much follow the glyph naming conventions (in some cases <br> additionally providing access to a glyph in more than one way<br> in order to deal with uncertainties about support for the standardized<br> glyph naming convention, so e.g. the <br> Euro glyph might be accessible both under the glyph name<br> "Euro" and under "uni20AC").<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=3>Markus> to Unicode 3.2 coverage.<br><br> Markus> Who is currently on charge of these font files? AMS?<br><br> comp.text.tex is probably still the best place to discuss that.<br> Perhaps also tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu.  I've included both on<br> the CC here.<br><br> THe cm-super t1 fonts already do follow unicodegn.html, but the math<br> mode fonts are not included.  (Verified by looking at the FullName<br> fields of the afm files.)<br><br> -JimC</blockquote> <x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep> --<br> Berthold K.P. Horn <a href="mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu" eudora="autourl">mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu</a> <a href="http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph" eudora="autourl">http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph</a> (BK)</font></html> --=====================_111871703==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Jun 8 19:58:40 2002 Flags: 000000000001 Return-Path: <ANCHIM-SA@anchim.chm.anl.gov> Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.20.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24356 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 19:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <MA89HCRY>; Sat, 8 Jun 2002 20:59:55 -0500 Message-ID: <F153489CBB21D611991E0004763B06460F6D42@anchim.chm.anl.gov> From: System Attendant <ANCHIM-SA@anchim.chm.anl.gov> To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" <tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 20:59:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = lij@engr.sc.edu Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = W32.Elkern removal tools Scanning Time = 06/08/2002 20:59:53 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/295 Action on message: The attachment install.exe matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\install3d02b69967.exe_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jun 9 00:33:00 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <akindavidse@yahoo.com> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26337 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 00:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from yahoo.com ([212.100.64.68]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g596Wmx30765 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 08:32:49 +0200 Message-Id: <200206090632.g596Wmx30765@tug.org> From: "Mr.AKIN DAVID" <akindavidse@yahoo.com> To: <tex-fonts@tug.org> Subject: Sender: "Mr.AKIN DAVID" <akindavidse@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 07:34:11 -0700 Reply-To: "Mr.AKIN DAVID" <akindavidse@yahoo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Dear Sir , First, I must solicit your confidence in this transaction; this is by virtue of its nature as being utterly CONFIDENTIAL and TOP SECRET. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that all will be well at the end of the day, we have decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction. Let me start first by introducing myself properly to you, I am Mr. TONY OKASIME, THE FINANCIAL DIRECTOR with the Union Bank of Nigeria Plc. Lagos. I came to know of you in my private search for a reliable and reputable person to handle this confidential transaction which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign account requiring maximum confidence. THE PROPOSITION A foreigner, with name, Late Engineer Johnson Creek, an Oil Merchant/Contractor with the Federal Government of Nigeria, until his death Six years ago in a ghastly air crash, banked with us here at Union Bank Plc. Nigeria, Lagos, and had a closing balance of US$9.5M (Nine Million, Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars only) which the bank now unquestionably expects it to be claimed by any available foreign next-of-kin of the Late beneficiary. Fervent valuable efforts are been made by the Union Bank to get in touch with any of the Creek's family or relatives proved to no avail. It is because of these perceived possibility of not been able to locate any of Late Engr. Johnson Creek's next-of-kin or relatives (he had no wife and children) that the management under the influence of our chairman and member of the board of directors, Retired Major General Kalu Uke Kalu, ORDERED that the fund should be declared "UNCLAIMABLE" if there is no member of late Engr.Johnson Creek's Relatives that comes to claim the money. So my trusted colleagues and I now seek your permission to have you stand as a next-of-kin or relative to Late Engr. Johnson Creek so that the funds will be released and paid into your bank account as the beneficiary next-of-kin, all documents and proves to enable you get this fund US$9.5m will be carefully worked out and more so we are assuring you of a 100% risk free involvement as your involvement will not expose you to any risks now or after the successful completion of the transaction. Your share stays while the rest would be for me and my colleagues for investment purposes in your country. We have agreed that, the funds will be shared thus, after it has been transferred into your account. 20% of the money will go to you for acting as the beneficiary of the funds, 5% will be set aside for reimbursement to both parties for any incidental expenses that may be incurred in the course of this transaction and 75% to us the originators of the transaction. If this proposal is OK by you and you do not wish to take undue advantage of the trust, we hope to bestow on you and your company, then kindly get back to me immediately via my private Email: akindavidse@yahoo.com or Fax No: 234-1-7599387 for security reason, Furnish me with your most confidential Telephone number, Fax number and exclusive bank particulars so that we can use these information to apply for the release and subsequent transfer of the funds in your favor. Thank you in advance for your anticipated co-operation. Yours faithfully, Mr. Akin David FINANCIAL DIRECTOR, (Union Bank of Nig. Plc) akindavidse@yahoo.com From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jun 9 02:08:00 2002 Flags: 000000000001 Return-Path: <Yannis.Haralambous@enst-bretagne.fr> Received: from laposte.enst-bretagne.fr (laposte.enst-bretagne.fr [192.108.115.3]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26793 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 02:07:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Yannis.Haralambous@enst-bretagne.fr Received: from digemer.enst-bretagne.fr (digemer.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.75.206]) by laposte.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5987Qi27790 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 10:07:26 +0200 Received: (from www@localhost) by digemer.enst-bretagne.fr (8.10.1/8.10.1) id g5985PB23676 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 10:05:25 +0200 (MET DST) To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" <tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Subject: SPAM, viruses... Message-ID: <1023609925.3d030c45a55c0@diogel.enst-bretagne.fr> Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 10:05:25 +0200 (MET DST) References: <F153489CBB21D611991E0004763B06460F6D42@anchim.chm.anl.gov> In-Reply-To: <F153489CBB21D611991E0004763B06460F6D42@anchim.chm.anl.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: IMP/PHP webmail program X-Originating-IP: 172.137.232.176 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr More and more SPAM messages and viruses appear on this list. Could we make it private, or change it's name? Or may be somebody could supervise it like TeXMag in the good old days? Yannis En réponse à System Attendant <ANCHIM-SA@anchim.chm.anl.gov>: > ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, > please > refer to the contents of this message for further details. > > Sender = lij@engr.sc.edu > Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu > Subject = W32.Elkern removal tools > Scanning Time = 06/08/2002 20:59:53 > Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/295 > > Action on message: > The attachment install.exe matched file blocking settings. ScanMail > has > taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to > C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\install3d02b69967.exe_. > > Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. > > > From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jun 9 02:44:24 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <ei@directnotify.com> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27014 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 02:44:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 211.250.191.2 ([211.250.191.2]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g598i0x31197 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 10:44:02 +0200 Message-Id: <200206090844.g598i0x31197@tug.org> Received: from unknown (74.38.244.167) by asy100.as122.sol.superonline.com with NNFMP; Jun, 09 2002 4:36:23 AM -0200 Received: from unknown (70.133.86.252) by da001d2020.lax-ca.osd.concentric.net with esmtp; Jun, 09 2002 3:44:29 AM +0300 Received: from [138.156.251.163] by da001d2020.lax-ca.osd.concentric.net with local; Jun, 09 2002 2:20:28 AM +0700 Received: from 184.244.108.80 ([184.244.108.80]) by rly-xr02.mx.aol.com with SMTP; Jun, 09 2002 1:43:09 AM -0800 From: qlac_division <ei@directnotify.com> To: members@tug.org Cc: Subject: QUOTE FOR: #recipient# PASSWORD: ekufo Sender: qlac_division <ei@directnotify.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 04:50:10 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Mozilla/4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) [Netscape]"> </head> <body> <blockquote> <center><form action="http://directnotify.com/cgi-bin/check.pl" METHOD=post><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=+1>Your present and future can be in your <font color="#000099">control</font>.</font></font></b></center> <ul> <center> <li> <font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">Debt reduction to lower your payments now.</font></font></li></center> <center> <li> <font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">Life insurance to protect the future.</font></font></li></center> <center> <li> <font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">Take advantage of great mortgage rates.</font></font></li></center> </ul> </blockquote> <center><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#000000">- Select a program to receive the best online quotes -</font></font></b></center> <table BORDER CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2 COLS=3 WIDTH="100%" > <tr VALIGN=TOP> <td HEIGHT="75" BGCOLOR="#FFCCCC"><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#FF0000">Yes! <input type=radio name=type value=debt></font>Debt Reduction</font> <br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1>Amount of debt:</font></font></b> <br><select name="amountofdebt" size="1"><option value=""><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1>If yes please select<option value="$5,000-$10,000">$5,000-$10,000<option value="$10,000-$15,000">$10,000-$15,000<option value="$15,000-$20,000">$15,000-$20,000<option value="$20,000-$30,000">$20,000-$30,000<option value="$30,000-$40,000">$30,000-$40,000<option value="$40,000-$50,000">$40,000-$50,000<option value="$40,000-$50,000">$50,000-$75,000<option value="$75,000-$100,000">$75,000-$100,000<option value="$100,000+">over $100,000</font></font></select></td> <td BGCOLOR="#CCFFFF"><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#FF0000">Yes! <input type=radio checked name=type value=life></font>Life Insurance</font> <br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1>Select a type:</font></font></b> <br><select name="instype" size="1"><option value=""><font size=-1><font face="Arial,Helvetica">If yes please select<option value="30-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term"></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">30-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term</option><option value="30-yr. Premium Term">30-yr. Premium Term</option><option value="25-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term">25-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term</option><option value="25-yr. Premium Term">25-yr. Premium Term</option><option value="20-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term">20-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term</option><option value="20-yr. Premium Term">20-yr. Premium Term</option><option value="15-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term">15-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term</option><option value="15-yr. Premium Term">15-yr. Premium Term</option><option value="10-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term">10-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term</option><option value="10-yr. Premium Term">10-yr. Premium Term</option><option value=" 5-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term">5-yr. Guarenteed Premium Term</option><option value=" 1-yr. ART (Anual renewal Term)">1-yr. ART (Anual renewal Term)</option><option value="Universal">Universal</option><option value="2nd to die (survivorship insurance)">2nd to die (survivorship insurance)</option><option value="Whole Life">Whole Life</font></font></option></select></td> <td VALIGN=TOP BGCOLOR="#99FF99"><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font color="#FF0000">Yes! <input type=radio name=type value=mortgage></font><font color="#000000">Mortgages</font></font> <br><b><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1>Mortgage Type:</font></font></b> <br><select name="amountofdebt" size="1"><option value=""><font face="Arial,Helvetica"><font size=-1>If yes please select<option value="$5,000-$10,000">Refinance<option value="$5,000-$10,000">Refinance-cash out<option value="$5,000-$10,000">2nd mortgage<option value="$5,000-$10,000">Obtain new mortgage</font></font></select></td> </tr> </table> <blockquote> <center><input type=submit name=submit value=" Continue "></center> </blockquote> <blockquote> <center>Email #recipient# has been previously verified. <br>If this message has come to you in error, <a href="http://directnotify.com/rm.html">click here to stop future mailings</a>.</center> </blockquote><font color="ffffff"> <br>  <br>  </body> </html> fwjskprcxinufnxrpaqjppweiibbfmuwpqm From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jun 9 07:03:32 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Received: from flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net (flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.232]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28521 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 07:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2ive28h.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.9.17] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by flamingo.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 17H2Lu-0000br-00; Sun, 09 Jun 2002 06:03:26 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020609074540.00ac1bf0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 09:02:21 -0400 To: Markus Kuhn <Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [Fonts]Re: Adobe Glyph Names <-> Unicode 3.2 (was: Xft and MathML) Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <E17H0xP-0006vS-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk> References: <Your message of "Sat, 08 Jun 2002 19:37:56 EDT." <5.1.0.14.2.20020608193529.00ac1970@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_49507628==_.ALT" --=====================_49507628==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:34 PM 6/9/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Because otherwise I will update it and advertise my update widely >together with the benefits it brings, and they will loose control over >which table non-Adobe people who care about proper Type1 name mappings >will use. If they sleep, they will start to be ignored. The table is just a table. What does it actually represent? Importantly, it is a table built into their Type 1 font consumers (primarily ATM --- and correspondingly in Windows Type 1 font support). And *that* is what one really would like to have updated. Someone else making another table on paper or in electronic form has essentially no useful effect. The significance of the table is that it is built into Type 1 font consumers, so that 16-bit character strings can be used to unambiguously access the glyphs desired. Without that it is just a table of pedagogical interest. > The economic incentives here are clear and simple, In the past, Adobe and others have had no trouble ignoring the TeX world, since it does not represent an economically significant group (for a start it is full of people who prefer free software). When a useful change happened it was often because some farsighted person at Adobe, perhaps in contact with outsiders, did the right thing because they felt like it --- and no manager happened to notice that they were doing it. >and I am confident that they >(i.e., Eric Mueller at Adobe) have already understood this. If you >prefer, think of it more as of an ultimatum rather than a plea ... :) It would be wonderful if Adobe and Microsoft and Apple heard your plea and will do this, despite the lack of commercial incentive. But why worry about it in any case? TeX works with 8-bit bytes. Some commercial TeX implementations work internally with Unicode, but have to separate treatment of "text" and "non-text" fonts in any case. And glyphs in non-text fonts are accessed by character code known to TeX by macros. Which will always be the case, since no version of Unicode will ever have a complete coverage of all possible glyphs. In addition, the religion of Unicode makes it be a *character* encoding, not *glyph* encoding, so that, e.g., variants of letter shapes cannot be accommodated . So you will never get away for the need for something more than Unicode. >Markus > >P.S.: In any case, what are we wasting our time with this pointless >discussion? They are apparently already reviewing a new table and have >to fix not only Unicode 3.2, but also a number of other problems that >have accumulated over the years in it. Glad to hear it. Great. >One issue that might delay things >is that Unicode 3.2 forgot to add one last remaining Symbol character >(horizontal extender). > >[You worry too much. If you want to have a more challenging persuasion >problem to work on, please think about how to convince Americans to use >the metric system, A4 paper, 24h time notation, and other good standard >things they miss out at the moment. :] But wait, USA congress has passed many laws changing to metric system, starting shortly after the French revolution! Unfortunately it seems not to have had any effect (except in a few rare instances: wine is sold in 750 ml bottles --- some companies, like Caterpillar, are completely "metricated" etc.). And what about stupid notation for dates? These are widespread. The logical notation is of course year/month/day. How many countries make that the norm? I wasted much time in the 1980s writing letters to magazines like "Science News" asking them to use SI in their reporting. It made no difference, and the convenient conversion of units in calculators and computers made the change even less likely. Of course as a result we lost a couple missions to Mars that cost hundreds of millions of dollars... But then I still see inappropriate units like centimeter, Angstrom etc. used widely in Europe even though they were deprecated 50 years ago when most of the world switch to SI. But in any case what has this to do with TeX or Unicode :-) Regards, Berthold. >-- >Markus G. Kuhn, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge, UK >Email: mkuhn at acm.org, WWW: <http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/> -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_49507628==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <html> <font size=3>At 12:34 PM 6/9/2002 +0100, you wrote:<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Because otherwise I will update it and advertise my update widely<br> together with the benefits it brings, and they will loose control over<br> which table non-Adobe people who care about proper Type1 name mappings<br> will use. If they sleep, they will start to be ignored.</font></blockquote><br> The table is just a table. What does it actually represent?<br><br> Importantly, it is a table built into their Type 1 font consumers <br> (primarily ATM --- and correspondingly in Windows Type 1 font support).<br> And *that* is what one really would like to have updated.<br> Someone else making another table on paper or in electronic<br> form has essentially no useful effect.<br><br> The significance of the table is that it is built into Type 1 font consumers,<br> so that 16-bit character strings can be used to unambiguously<br> access the glyphs desired.<br><br> Without that it is just a table of pedagogical interest.<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=3> The economic incentives here are clear and simple,</font></blockquote><br> In the past, Adobe and others have had no trouble ignoring the TeX world,<br> since it does not represent an economically significant group<br> (for a start it is full of people who prefer free software).<br> When a useful change happened it was often because some <br> farsighted person at Adobe, perhaps  in contact with outsiders,<br> did the right thing because they felt like it --- and no manager<br> happened to notice that they were doing it.<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=3>and I am confident that they<br> (i.e., Eric Mueller at Adobe) have already understood this. If you<br> prefer, think of it more as of an ultimatum rather than a plea ... :)</font></blockquote><br> It would be wonderful if Adobe and Microsoft and Apple heard<br> your plea and will do this, despite the lack of commercial incentive.<br><br> But why worry about it in any case?  TeX works with 8-bit bytes.<br><br> Some commercial TeX implementations work internally with<br> Unicode, but have to separate treatment of "text" and "non-text"<br> fonts in any case. And glyphs in non-text fonts <br> are accessed by character code known to TeX by macros.<br> Which will always be the case, since no version of Unicode <br> will ever have a complete coverage of all possible glyphs.  <br><br> In addition, the religion of Unicode makes it be a *character*<br> encoding, not *glyph* encoding, so that, e.g., variants of letter<br> shapes cannot be accommodated .  So you will never get<br> away for the need for something more than Unicode.<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=3>Markus<br><br> P.S.: In any case, what are we wasting our time with this pointless<br> discussion? They are apparently already reviewing a new table and have<br> to fix not only Unicode 3.2, but also a number of other problems that<br> have accumulated over the years in it. </font></blockquote><br> Glad to hear it. Great.<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=3>One issue that might delay things<br> is that Unicode 3.2 forgot to add one last remaining Symbol character<br> (horizontal extender).<br><br> [You worry too much. If you want to have a more challenging persuasion<br> problem to work on, please think about how to convince Americans to use<br> the metric system, A4 paper, 24h time notation, and other good standard<br> things they miss out at the moment. :]</font></blockquote><br> But wait, USA congress has passed many laws changing to metric system,<br> starting shortly after the French revolution!  Unfortunately it seems not to<br> have had any effect (except in a few rare instances: wine is sold in<br> 750 ml bottles --- some companies, like Caterpillar, are completely<br> "metricated" etc.).<br><br> And what about stupid notation for dates?  These are widespread.<br> The logical notation is of course year/month/day.<br> How many countries make that the norm?<br><br> I wasted much time in the 1980s writing letters to magazines like<br> "Science News" asking them to use SI in their reporting.<br> It made no difference, and the convenient conversion of<br> units in calculators and computers made the change even<br> less likely.  Of course as a result we lost a couple missions<br> to Mars that cost hundreds of millions of dollars...<br><br> But then I still see inappropriate units like centimeter, Angstrom etc.<br> used widely in Europe even though they were deprecated 50 years <br> ago when most of the world switch to SI.<br><br> But in any case what has this to do with TeX or Unicode :-)<br><br> Regards, Berthold.<br><br> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite><font size=3>-- <br> Markus G. Kuhn, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge, UK<br> Email: mkuhn at acm.org,  WWW: <<a href="http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/" eudora="autourl">http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/</a>></blockquote> <x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep> --<br> Berthold K.P. Horn <a href="mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu" eudora="autourl">mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu</a> <a href="http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph" eudora="autourl">http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph</a> (BK)</font></html> --=====================_49507628==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jun 9 07:46:19 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <juliamiss@nm.ru> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28781 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 07:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nm.ru (port-212-202-161-252.reverse.qdsl-home.de [212.202.161.252]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g59DkDx32349 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:46:13 +0200 Message-ID: <001c01c20fbb$4aba75b0$0200a8c0@slashi> From: "webmaster" <juliamiss@nm.ru> To: "email" <tex-fonts@tug.org> Subject: Your chance to ... 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SMTP id zSmLkGrgUN1oGjA7S1qcnVP; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 00:57:00 +0800 Message-ID: <JTuHeSWVw0wX@giga.net.tw> From: ham@h8h.com To: 0607-3 Subject: =?big5?Q?=A4G=A4Q=A4@=A5@=AC=F6=AA=BA=A9=FA=A4=E9=A4=A7=ACP?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_ETZaIK4DkXrWIPh" X-Mailer: ZCEMRoHuO5IdfO X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_ETZaIK4DkXrWIPh Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_ETZaIK4DkXrWIPhAA" ------=_NextPart_ETZaIK4DkXrWIPhAA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCEtLSBzYXZlZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPGh0 bWw+DQoNCjxoZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iQ29udGVudC1UeXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0 ZXh0L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9YmlnNSI+DQo8bWV0YSBuYW1lPSJHRU5FUkFUT1IiIGNvbnRlbnQ9 Ik1pY3Jvc29mdCBGcm9udFBhZ2UgNS4wIj4NCjxtZXRhIG5hbWU9IlByb2dJZCIgY29udGVudD0i 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<faballa@dr.com> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08893 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:10:10 -0600 (MDT) From: faballa@dr.com Received: from dr.com ([200.243.51.6]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g5BLA3x20775 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 23:10:04 +0200 Received: from 47.21.84.73 ([47.21.84.73]) by rly-xl04.mx.aolmd.com with smtp; Tue, 11 Jun 0102 20:13:27 +0100 Reply-To: <faballa@dr.com> Message-ID: <034a67c17c5b$7866d5e7$8ab11ae5@pmcvyn> To: faballa@dr.com Subject: incroyable! 0126AxVR0-556rvWz64-18 Date: Tue, 11 Jun 0102 09:07:51 +1200 MiME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C1_30B76C0C.C7534D37" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_30B76C0C.C7534D37 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smtp-relay-3.sea.adobe.com (smtp-relay-3.adobe.com [192.150.22.10]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10336 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 16:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inner-relay-3.corp.adobe.com (inner-relay-3 [153.32.251.51]) by smtp-relay-3.sea.adobe.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5BMgW9C016274 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:42:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com (mailsj-dev.corp.adobe.com [153.32.1.192]) by inner-relay-3.corp.adobe.com (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g5BMeQQG001143 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:40:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from adobe.com ([153.32.56.102]) by mailsj-v1.corp.adobe.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 v1 Jul 11 2001 16:32:57) with ESMTP id GXKCG700.BWX; Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:43:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3D067DAE.50505@adobe.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:46:06 -0700 From: Eric Muller <emuller@adobe.com> Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" <bkph@ai.mit.edu> CC: "James H. Cloos Jr." <cloos@jhcloos.com>, Markus Kuhn <Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk>, fonts@xfree86.org, rbs@maths.uq.edu.au, Barbara Beeton <bnb@ams.org>, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: [Fonts]Re: Adobe Glyph Names <-> Unicode 3.2 (was: Xft and MathML) References: <E17Fcal-0006yH-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk> <E17Fcal-0006yH-00@wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.2.20020608151402.01d1a810@mail.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070803060900080907040809" --------------070803060900080907040809 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am not too sure how this fits in the current discussion, but here are my goals for a revision of the "Unicode and glyph names" document: * the current naming convention does not support the mapping to (sequences of characters containing) supplemental characters (i.e. outside the BMP). * the current document contains all sort of information beyond the original goal, which was simply to provide a function from glyph names to character strings. I want to come back and stick to the original goal. * the PUA usage implied by the naming convention is a major disaster for two reasons: first, this was mostly an attempt to encode glyphs (by opposition to characters), and second, this PUA usage needs to be understood by far too many parties for that to happen. I want to deprecate it. So the final document will be along these lines: This document presents a algorithm to convert from glyph names to sequences of Unicode characters. [more or less the current sentences that explain how this is useful for e.g. ATM, a Type 1 to OpenType converter.] The algorithm is as follow: 1. drop everything after the first "." 2. split on "_" 3. convert each fragment produced by 2 to a string like this: 1. if the fragment is in the left column of the AGL table, use the string in the right column 2. else, if the fragment is of the form "uni[0-9AF]*" and the number of hex digits is a multiple of four, interpret each group of four digits as a Unicode scalar value 3. else, if the fragment is of the form "u[0-9A-F]*" and the number of hex digits is 4, 5 or 6, interpret those digits as a Unicode scalar value 4. else produce the empty string 4. concatenate the strings obtained by converting each fragment The revised AGL table will be a combination of the current AGL table and the PUA usage we give. As a sample, it will look like: name sequence A U+0041 Asmall U+0061 ... ... The first entry is because the current AGL says so. The second entry is because the current AGL says "Asmall -> U+F761" and the PUA usage says that U+F761 decomposes to "<sc> 0061". What I am still trying to figure out is the extent of the list (i.e. what names will be in it). The first observation is that the current AGL names should all be there. The second observation is that given the uni<code> and u<code> mechanisms, and given the huge cost and delay in having the list propagated to all the implementations of the algorithm (as Berthold noted), the best is to freeze the list forever after the next publication. In the end, I think the best is to add to the current AGL list a set of widely accepted names, e.g. those that Apple use in the fonts they ship, and may be those found in common math fonts; the tricky part is to determine when it's better to reissue a font with more useful names, and when it's better to augment the list. There is one more question about the new AGL list I have not yet figured out: should it include "uniF761" (and map it to U+0061) or should we let that name be handled by step 3.2 of the algorithm (and map it to U+F761). Independent of the "Unicode and glyph names" document is the set of mappings published at http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/ADOBE. The first thing to realize is that Adobe is not the source of those mappings. I believe they have originally been created by Next, for use in Display PostScript applications. I may deal with those after I am done with the "Unicode and glyph names" document. Eric. --------------070803060900080907040809 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html> <head> </head> <body> I am not too sure how this fits in the current discussion, but here are my goals for a revision of the "Unicode and glyph names" document:<br> <ul> <li>the current naming convention does not support the mapping to (sequences of characters containing) supplemental characters (i.e. outside the BMP). </li> <li>the current document contains all sort of information beyond the original goal, which was simply to provide a function from glyph names to character strings. I want to come back and stick to the original goal.</li> <li>the PUA usage implied by the naming convention is a major disaster for two reasons: first, this was mostly an attempt to encode glyphs (by opposition to characters), and second, this PUA usage needs to be understood by far too many parties for that to happen. I want to deprecate it.</li> </ul> So the final document will be along these lines:<br> <blockquote>This document presents a algorithm to convert from glyph names to sequences of Unicode characters. [more or less the current sentences that explain how this is useful for e.g. ATM, a Type 1 to OpenType converter.]<br> <br> The algorithm is as follow:<br> <ol> <li>drop everything after the first "."</li> <li>split on "_"</li> <li>convert each fragment produced by 2 to a string like this:</li> <ol> <li>if the fragment is in the left column of the AGL table, use the string in the right column</li> <li>else, if the fragment is of the form "uni[0-9AF]*" and the number of hex digits is a multiple of four, interpret each group of four digits as a Unicode scalar value</li> <li>else, if the fragment is of the form "u[0-9A-F]*" and the number of hex digits is 4, 5 or 6, interpret those digits as a Unicode scalar value</li> <li>else produce the empty string</li> </ol> <li>concatenate the strings obtained by converting each fragment<br> </li> </ol> <br> </blockquote> The revised AGL table will be a combination of the current AGL table and the PUA usage we give. As a sample, it will look like:<br> <br> <table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="1" align="Center"> <tbody> <tr> <td valign="Top">name<br> </td> <td valign="Top">sequence<br> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="Top">A<br> </td> <td valign="Top">U+0041<br> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="Top">Asmall</td> <td valign="Top"> <div align="Center">U+0061<br> </div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="Top">...<br> </td> <td valign="Top">...<br> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <br> The first entry is because the current AGL says so. The second entry is because the current AGL says "Asmall -> U+F761" and the PUA usage says that U+F761 decomposes to "<sc> 0061".<br> <br> What I am still trying to figure out is the extent of the list (i.e. what names will be in it). The first observation is that the current AGL names should all be there. The second observation is that given the uni<code> and u<code> mechanisms, and given the huge cost and delay in having the list propagated to all the implementations of the algorithm (as Berthold noted), the best is to freeze the list forever after the next publication. In the end, I think the best is to add to the current AGL list a set of widely accepted names, e.g. those that Apple use in the fonts they ship, and may be those found in common math fonts; the tricky part is to determine when it's better to reissue a font with more useful names, and when it's better to augment the list. There is one more question about the new AGL list I have not yet figured out: should it include "uniF761" (and map it to U+0061) or should we let that name be handled by step 3.2 of the algorithm (and map it to U+F761). <br> <br> <br> <br> Independent of the "Unicode and glyph names" document is the set of mappings published at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/ADOBE">http://www.unicode.org/Public/MAPPINGS/VENDORS/ADOBE</a>. The first thing to realize is that Adobe is <i>not</i> the source of those mappings. I believe they have originally been created by Next, for use in Display PostScript applications. I <i>may </i> deal with those after I am done with the "Unicode and glyph names" document.<br> <br> Eric.<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </body> </html> --------------070803060900080907040809-- From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jun 12 21:09:02 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <y0308@m3.is.net.tw> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01874 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:09:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from m3.is.net.tw (c154.h210062137.is.net.tw [210.62.137.154]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g5D38sx29471 for <tex-fonts@tug.org>; Thu, 13 Jun 2002 05:08:55 +0200 Message-Id: <200206130308.g5D38sx29471@tug.org> From: "wilson group" <0308@m3.is.net.tw> To: "Dear User" <User@Internet.com> Subject: Re: Pure Chlorella and Spirulina in Bulk Pack at Low Cost ! 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Please e-mail to : twwilson@tpts1.seed.net.tw, and write "remove" in = the subject line. .....................................................................= ......................................................................= ... -----RisingEdge.DC6DAC1E.2002.06.13.10.50.27-- -----RisingEdge.33DC589B.2002.06.13.10.50.27-- From tex-fonts-errors Sat Jun 15 12:56:55 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <z1ZTusJYeL1@venus.seed.net.tw> Received: from aa-gq363ns77uy7 (218-162-48-83.HINET-IP.hinet.net [218.162.48.83]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA13516 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:56:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from iris by saturn.seed.net.tw with SMTP id CPThwhF9wWqEAG7ZzGR; Sun, 16 Jun 2002 03:02:42 +0800 Message-ID: <KscZUJFS@tpts4.seed.net.tw> From: ham@h8h.com To: 0602-1, 0604-1, 0607-3 Subject: =?big5?Q?=BA=F4=B8=F4=A6=E6=BEP=B0=AA=A4=E2=B0V=BDm=AFZ?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: 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with ESMTP id HAA11408 for <tex-fonts@math.utah.edu>; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 07:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mta05.mail.mel.aone.net.au (mta05.mail.au.uu.net [203.2.192.85]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g5JDJXx12476 for <tex-fonts@mail.tug.org>; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:19:33 +0200 Received: from mail4 ([63.34.235.111]) by mta05.mail.mel.aone.net.au with ESMTP id <20020619131923.WUPC13433.mta05.mail.mel.aone.net.au@mail4>; Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:19:23 +1000 Message-ID: <411-220026319132352940@mail4> X-Priority: 3 Reply-To: "Fund Raise" <fundraiser01@china.com> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal To: "\"Fundraiser 190602\" <\"Fund Raise\"" <fundraiser01@china.com> From: "Fund Raise" <fundraisingmanual@yahoo.com.au> Subject: Fundraiser Manual Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:23:52 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Involved in Fundraising? Here is the answer you have been looking for!=20 Since 1989, the publishers of the daily (business finance) newspaper for f= undraisers Nonprofit and Charity News have been assisting nonprofits and c= harities=2E=20 Now you too can benefit from their expertise and resources=2E The 99 best case studies from the archives of Nonprofit and Charity News h= ave now been compiled into ONE COMPREHENSIVE MANUAL=2E =2E Written from a = "business finance" perspective, just one idea will reimburse you for the p= urchase many times over=2E What are you waiting for=2E=2E=2E Buy the MANUAL with 99 case studies of the best ever fundraising programs = and earned income ventures before June 28th AND YOU WILL ALSO RECEIVE - FR= EE, AT NO ADDITIONAL COST six months of daily updates of new case studies = by successful=20 nonprofits and charities=2E =20 The 99 best case studies from the archives of Non-profit and Charity News = have now been compiled into ONE COMPREHENSIVE MANUAL=2E This manual is now= available for US$140 (this price includes express delivery anywhere in th= e world)=2E Plus, we will provide you with updates from Non-profit and Cha= rity News for the next six months - every day=2E=20 Recent purchasers of our manual include The Fundraising Institute of Irela= nd, Save the Children, The Royal Children's Hospital Foundation and Hale S= chool (Perth, Western Australia) - and many more=2E Examples: =93Corporate Partnership=94 case studies from 99 Best Ever Fundr= aising and Earned Income Projects Vol=2E1 Corporate adopts charity =95 The real estate franchise group L=2E J=2E Hooker adopted the charity C= ystic Fibrosis two years ago as its corporate charity=2E=20 =95 In the first year of the relationship, Hookers launched the Ultimate G= arage Sale, and invited everyone in the community to drop off unused - but= saleable - items at their 600 local offices=2E=20 =95 This initiative raised $185,000, which was boosted with a corporate do= nation of $50,000=2E=20 =95 This year they hope to at least surpass that success, particularly as = the company has organised a charity house to be built in Brisbane with don= ated materials=2E=20 =95 When auctioned, this charity house should generate a surplus of $50,00= 0 which will also go to Cystic Fibrosis=2E Companies use charities for publicity =95 There is a growing trend for companies to use charities to generate pu= blicity - with or without the consent of the charity=2E=20 =95 The franchise hairdressing chain Just Cuts took a more responsible att= itude and earned enormous publicity throughout NSW with its promotion to d= onate $1 to charity for every haircut in its salons on a Saturday in Febru= ary=2E=20 =95 Their PR firm went to work and - by using photos from local salons - w= as able to get exposure for Just Cuts in various local newspapers=2E=20 =95 64 salons participated and $25,000 was raised for the Sydney Children=92= s Hospital at Randwick=2E Examples: =93Community Focus=94 case studies from 99 Best Ever Fundraising= and Earned Income Projects Vol=2E1 Celebrity chefs pool talents =95 The annual luncheon catered by the Great Chefs of Adelaide raises over= $50,000 for the Archbishop=92s Appeal, and its beneficiary Anglicare=2E=20= =95 Most of the fine wine and food is donated, the chefs give their time f= or free, as do students from the Regency Hotel School - who do the support= cooking and act as waiters for the 300+ guests=2E=20 =95 The event is held on a Sunday at the Adelaide Town Hall and is markete= d to those who like to have a long Sunday lunch with friends=2E Opportunity in credit card over-ride=20 =95 If you have a large number of affluent supporters on your database, cr= edit card income could be of interest to you=2E=20 =95 For example, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animal= s offers Amex credit cards to its database of 70,000 names=2E=20 =95 Amex will then pay a usage fee back to the animal welfare agency=2E=20= =95 The numbers work like this =96 if 5% of names take up the offer, and i= f they each spend $10,000 a year on their card, and if Amex pays 0=2E25% o= n usage, then the RSPCA will earn $87,500 annually=2E=20 =95 However the demographics of the RSPCA supporter base are unlikely to s= upport these figures =96 firstly a typical supporter is unlikely to be in = an age group that would be keen to accept another credit card, secondly th= ey are unlikely to spend $10,000 annually on credit=2E=20 =95 All marketing expenses are met by Amex, and there is no breaching of P= rivacy Code legislation because you are marketing to your own members=2E=20= =95 Save the Children, AIDS Trust, and the Starlight Children=92s Foundati= on are also part of a growing number of community business enterprises tha= t offer a branded credit card issued by American Express=2E =20 To order you manual, just complete the form below and send to fundraise@ch= ina=2Ecom or call (61 3)=A0 8610 1022 or fax (61 3) 8610 1023 Don't miss out - offer expires on June 28th, 2002 Yes! I would like more information e-Mail =20 Number of Fundraising Manuals: =20 First Name: =20 Last Name: =20 Company =20 Position =20 Address =20 Address Cont=2E =20 Post Code =20 Phone =20 Fax =20 Web Site: Credit Card: =20 =09Select One =09Amex =09BankCard =09Diners =09MasterCard =09Visa =09Will fax details Card Number =20 Cardholders Name =20 Expiry Date =20 Don't Delay - Order Now! If you do not wish to receive further promotional material from us, please= reply to this email with "remove" in the subject line=2E=20 =A0 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-= 1252"> <style type=3D"text/css"> <!-- body { font-family: Arial: font-size: 13px; } a:link {color: rgb(38,41,119); font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;}= a:visited {color: rgb(38,41,119); font-weight: bold; text-decoration: non= e;} a:hover {color: #B3C2D1; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;} td { font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; }--> </style> <title>The Best 99 Fundraising Case Studies

Involv= ed in=20 Fundraising?
Here is t= he=20 answer you have been looki= ng=20 for!

Since = 1989, the publishers of the daily (business finance) newspaper for fundrai= sers 
Nonprofit and Charity News have been assisting nonprofits and chariti= es=2E 
Now you too can benefi= t from their expertise and resources=2E

The 99 best case studie= s from=20 the archives of Nonprofit = and=20 Charity News have now been= =20 compiled into ONE=20 COMPREHENSIVE MANUAL=2E= =2E=20 Written from a "busin= ess=20 finance" perspective,= just=20 one idea will reimburs= e you for the purchase many t= imes over=2E

What are you waiting fo= r=2E=2E=2E

Buy the MANUAL with 99 case studies of the best ever fundraising programs and ear= ned income ventures before June 28th AND YOU WILL ALSO RECEIVE - FREE, AT NO ADDITIONA= L COST six months of daily updates of new case studies by successful nonpr= ofits and charities=2E


The 99 best case studies from the archives of Nonprofit and Charit= y News=20 have now been compiled into ONE COMPREHENSIVE=20 MANUAL=2E This manual is now available for US$140 (this price=20= includes express delivery anywhere in the world)=2E Plus, we will = provide=20 you with updates from Nonprofit and Charity News for the next six = months=20 - every day=2E=20

Recent purchasers of our manual include The Fundraising Institute = of Ireland, Save the Children, The Royal Children's=20 Hospital Foundation and Hale School (Perth, Western Australia) - a= nd many more=2E


Exampl= es: =93Corporate=20 Partnership=94 case=20 studies
from 99 Best Eve= r=20 Fundraising and Earned Inc= ome=20 Projects Vol=2E1

= Corporate adopts charity

  • The real estate fran= chise=20 group L=2E J=2E Hooker a= dopted the=20 charity Cystic Fibrosis = two=20 years ago as its corpora= te=20 charity=2E
  • In the first year of= the=20 relationship, Hookers la= unched=20 the Ultimate Garage Sale= , and=20 invited everyone in the=20= community to drop off un= used -=20 but saleable - items at = their=20 600 local offices=2E
  • This initiative rais= ed=20 $185,000, which was boos= ted=20 with a corporate donatio= n of=20 $50,000=2E
  • This year they hope = to at=20 least surpass that succe= ss,=20 particularly as the comp= any=20 has organised a charity = house=20 to be built in Brisbane = with=20 donated materials=2E
  • When auctioned, this= =20 charity house should gen= erate=20 a surplus of $50,000 whi= ch=20 will also go to Cystic=20= Fibrosis=2E

Companies use charit= ies=20 for publicity

  • There is a growing t= rend=20 for companies to use cha= rities=20 to generate publicity - = with=20 or without the consent o= f the=20 charity=2E
  • The franchise hairdr= essing=20 chain Just Cuts took a m= ore=20 responsible attitude and= =20 earned enormous publicit= y=20 throughout NSW with its=20= promotion to donate $1 t= o=20 charity for every haircu= t in=20 its salons on a Saturday= in=20 February=2E
  • Their PR firm went t= o work=20 and - by using photos fr= om=20 local salons - was able = to get=20 exposure for Just Cuts i= n=20 various local newspapers= =2E
  • 64 salons participat= ed and=20 $25,000 was raised for t= he=20 Sydney Children=92s Hosp= ital at=20 Randwick=2E

Examples: =93Community=20 Focus=94 case=20 studies
from 99 Best Eve= r=20 Fundraising and Earned Inc= ome=20 Projects Vol=2E1

= Celebrity chefs pool talen= ts

  • The annual luncheon=20= catered by the Great Che= fs of=20 Adelaide raises over $50= ,000=20 for the Archbishop=92s A= ppeal,=20 and its beneficiary Angl= icare=2E
  • Most of the fine win= e and=20 food is donated, the che= fs=20 give their time for free= , as=20 do students from the Reg= ency=20 Hotel School - who do th= e=20 support cooking and act = as=20 waiters for the 300+ gue= sts=2E
  • The event is held on= a=20 Sunday at the Adelaide T= own=20 Hall and is marketed to = those=20 who like to have a long = Sunday=20 lunch with friends=2E

Opportunity in credi= t card=20 over-ride

  • If you have a large = number=20 of affluent supporters o= n your=20 database, credit card in= come=20 could be of interest to = you=2E
  • For example, the Roy= al=20 Society for the Preventi= on of=20 Cruelty to Animals offer= s Amex=20 credit cards to its data= base=20 of 70,000 names=2E
    • =
  • Amex will then pay a= usage=20 fee back to the animal w= elfare=20 agency=2E
  • The numbers work lik= e this=20 =96 if 5% of names take = up the=20 offer, and if they each = spend=20 $10,000 a year on their = card,=20 and if Amex pays 0=2E25%= on=20 usage, then the RSPCA wi= ll=20 earn $87,500 annually=2E=
  • However the demograp= hics=20 of the RSPCA supporter b= ase=20 are unlikely to support = these=20 figures =96 firstly a ty= pical=20 supporter is unlikely to= be in=20 an age group that would = be=20 keen to accept another c= redit=20 card, secondly they are=20= unlikely to spend $10,00= 0=20 annually on credit=2E
  • All marketing expens= es are=20 met by Amex, and there i= s no=20 breaching of Privacy Cod= e=20 legislation because you = are=20 marketing to your own me= mbers=2E
  • Save the Children, A= IDS=20 Trust, and the Starlight= =20 Children=92s Foundation = are also=20 part of a growing number= of=20 community business enter= prises=20 that offer a branded cre= dit=20 card issued by American=20= Express=2E

Don't miss out - offer expires on June 28th, 2002

To order you manual, just complete the form below or call +61 3  = 8610 1022 or fax  +61 3 8610 1023

 
Yes! I would like to order
e= -Mail
N= umber of Fundraising Manuals:
F= irst Name: =
L= ast Name: <= /td>
N= onprofit/Charity
P= osition
A= ddress
A= ddress Cont=2E <= /td>
P= ost Code =
C= ountry <= /strong>
P= hone
F= ax
W= eb Site:
= Credit Card:
= Card Number
= Cardholders Name
= Expiry Date
Don't Delay - Order Now!

Your request is = sent by=20 eMail - just check your 'Sent Item= s' to=20 confirm that it has been submitted= =20 successfully=2E

If you do not wish to receive further promotiona= l=20 material from us, please reply to this email with "remove&= quot; in the=20 subject line=2E

 
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\¨D¾°Q½×1.TXT, \±¡1.TXT, \±¡2.TXT, \±¡3.TXT, \±¡4.TXT, \¨D¾°Q½×.TXT, \¹q1.TXT, \080¾2.TXT, \080¾3.TXT, \080¾4.TXT, \cf°Q1.TXT, \¤Í1.TXT, \ªi°Q1.TXT, \ªi¾1.TXT, \080¾1.TXT Subject: F6jp5hxxzasPdv4nJqrMWlzXWCoL =?big5?Q?=B5=B9=A6=DB=A4v=A4@=A6=B8=BE=F7=B7|=AC=DD=C0=B4=A4@=AD=D3=BE=F7=B7|?= sS3US0cBYTSMtzw6bwNFVcZ7bs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_LXdkT06iZBtdjsFPm" X-Mailer: bsKfSpEn6PTULFK X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_LXdkT06iZBtdjsFPm Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_LXdkT06iZBtdjsFPmAA" ------=_NextPart_LXdkT06iZBtdjsFPmAA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQo8aHRtbCB4bWxuczp2PSJ1cm46c2NoZW1hcy1taWNyb3NvZnQtY29tOnZtbCIgeG1sbnM6bz0i dXJuOnNjaGVtYXMtbWljcm9zb2Z0LWNvbTpvZmZpY2U6b2ZmaWNlIiB4bWxucz0iaHR0cDovL3d3 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02:06:28 +0200 Received: (from www@localhost) by mail19.bigmailbox.com (8.11.6/8.10.0) id g5LN6El29107; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:06:14 -0700 Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:06:14 -0700 Message-Id: <200206212306.g5LN6El29107@mail19.bigmailbox.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary X-Mailer: MIME-tools 4.104 (Entity 4.116) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Originating-Ip: [213.181.64.226] From: "sadiq jibril" To: elzobier@kuwaitculturaluk.com Subject: URGENT PLEASE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) FROM:DR.SADIQ JIBRIL SOCIETE GENERALE BANK(NIG)LTD. 32/34 BREADFRIUT SRTEET MARINA-LAGOS ATTENTION PLERASE: First, I must solicit your confidence in this transaction, this is by virtue of its nature as being utterly CONFIDENTIAL and TOP SECRET. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make anyone apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that all will be well at the end of the day. We have decided to contact you by e-mail due to the urgency of this transaction. Let me start by first introducing myself properly to you. I am DR.SADIQ JIBRIL a Manager at the SOCIETE GENERALE BANK NIG. LTD, Lagos. I came to know of you in my private search for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential transaction which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign account requiring maximum confidence. I am not too really sure if you are my long lost contact whom I am trying to reach, but in anyway, please do take this message with a good heart and revert to me if you are not the person I think you are. I would explain more latter. THE PROPOSITION: A foreigner, late Engineer SANN CLARKE, an Oil Merchant / contractor with the federal Govenment of Nigeria, until his death three years ago in a ghastly air crash, banked with us here at SOCIETE GENERALE BANK Lagos, and had a closing balance of USD$40.M (Forty Million,United States Dollars) which the bank now unquestionably expects to be claimed by any of his available foreign next of kin or alternatively be donated to a discredited trust fund for alms and ammunition at a military war college here in Nigeria. Fervent valuable efforts has been made by the SOCIETE GENERAL BANK to get in touch with any of the CLARKE family or relatives but all have proved to no avail. It is because of the perceived possibility of not going to be able to locate any of late Engr. SANN CLARKE's next of kin (he had no known wife and children) that the management under the influence of our Chairman, board of directors, CHIEF OLUSOLA SARAKI, that an arrangement for the fund to be declared"UNCLAIMABLE" and then be subsequently donated to the Trust Fund for Alms and War in Africa and the world in general. In order to avert this negative development, myself and some of my trusted colleagues here at the bank now seek for your permission to have you stand as late Engr. SANN CLARKE's next of kin so that the fund, USD$40.M USD would be subsequently transferred and paid into your bank account as the beneficiary next of kin.All documents and proves to enable you get this fund have been carefully worked out and we are assuring you a 100% risk free involvement. For your assistance, your commission would be 20%. 80%be for myself and my colleagues for investment purposes in your country. If this proposal is OK. by you and you do not wish to take advantage of the trust we hope to bestow on you and your company, then kindly get to me immediately via my e-mail furnishing me with your most confidential telephone, fax number and exclusive e-mail so that I can forward to you the relevant details of this transaction. Thank you in advance for your anticipated co-operation. Regards, DR. SADIQ JIBRIL MANAGER SOCIETE GENERAL BANK NIG.LTD. N.B. PLEASE, FOR CONFIDENTIAL REASON, I WOULD LIKE YOU OR ALSO CONTACT ME HERE sadiq_jibril@arabia.com ------------------------------------------------------------ http://Game.37.com/ <--- Free Games http://newJoke.com/ <--- J O K E S ! ! ! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Express yourself with a super cool email address from BigMailBox.com. Hundreds of choices. It's free! http://www.bigmailbox.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jun 21 19:01:48 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from 212.68.224.183.brutele.be (212.68.224.183.brutele.be [212.68.224.183]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA03933 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 19:01:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <002001c21978$ce6e4be0$b7e044d4@brutele.be> From: "Charitable Fund \"Saint Sophia\"" To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Internationalen Seminares - Problems and experience of the historic sites and of conservation of a cultural heritage Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 02:10:15 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01C21991.F3AABB00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C21991.F3AABB00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 English | German | Russian=20 =20 =20 Charitable Fund "Saint Sophia" -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- P.O. BOX 10 Kyiv 1032, Ukraine Tel./Fax: +38 (044) 244-18-72 E-mail: = stsfund@uni.net.ua Sehr geehrte Dame und Herren, im Auftrag des Organisationskomitees des Internationalen Seminares = "Problems and experience of the historic sites and of conservation of a = cultural heritage" teile ich Ihnen das mit, dass ist die Frist der = Annahme der Thesen der Berichte auf das Seminar bis zum 15. Juli 2002 = verlaengert. Das Seminar findet an Statt Kiew (Ukraine) ab 30. September bis 2. = Oktober 2002. Das Seminar wird sich auf der Initiative der Stiftung =93Heiliges Sophia = =94 bei der Unterstuetzung des Ratstdt von Kiew geleitet. Eine der grundlegenden Richtung der Taetigkeit der Stiftung =93Heiliges = Sophia=93 ist die Mithilfe dem Austausch der Erfahrung zwischen fuehrend = Fachmaennern und Organisationen aus verschiedenen Laendern in dem Gebiet = Denkmalschutz und Denkmalpflege. In dieser Richtung arbeitet die Stiftung zusammen mit der staatlichen = Organisationen der Ukraine, die fuer die Erhaltung das kulturell Erbe = verantwortlich ist, sowie den Wiederherstellungskorporationen und die = Firmen in Ukraine und hinter ihren Grenzen auch. Die Teilnehmer des Organisationskomitees des Seminares sind die = Vertreter die Munizipalitaet von Kiew, der Ukrainische UNESCO Nationalen = Kommission, des Ministeriums der Kultur und der Kuenste, des Staatlichen = Komitees fuer den Bau und der Architektur, des ICOMOS Komitee. Das Seminar ist auf die Architekten, Restauratoren, der Ingenieure, der = Archaeologen, der Fachmaenner aus der Verwaltungsgebiet, der = Wissenschaftler, der Fachmanner und der Studenten der hoechsten = Ausbildungseinrichtungen Architektonisch- und des Bauprofils orientiert, = das sich direkt der Aufgaben der Erhaltung das historisch und kulturell = Erbe beschaeftigt sind. Im Auftrag des Organisationskomitees des Seminares habe ich die Ehre, = die Fachmaenner Ihres Landes einzuladen, an der Arbeit des Seminares = teilzunehmen. Ich habe die Hoffnung, dass wird Ihr Arbeitseinsatz des = Seminares der Entwicklung der weiteren fruchtbringenden wissenschaftlich = und technischen Kontakte zwischen den Fachmaennern unserer Laender = dienen. Die Bedingungen des Teilnahme im Seminar lege ich bei Mit freundlichen Gruessen Dr. Y.Maslov E-mail: stsfund@uni.net.ua =20 For further information, please, forward Registration Form to the = Organizing Committee=20 =20 Reference about the St. Sophia Cathedral of Kyiv The St. Sophia Cathedral was erected in the first half of the 11th = century and symbolized unity and power of Old Rus. It considerably = influenced on the development of the future Rus architecture. The = outstanding universal importance of this monument is that the = architecture of the Cathedral has been almost completely preserved since = the 11th century. The main element of the Cathedral decoration is the = monumental painting - its mosaic and frescos, which nonseparably bound = with the architecture. The St. Sophia Cathedral of Kyiv preserves the = most importance complex of the mosaics and frescos of the epoch of the = 11th century. The St. Sophia Cathedral, which shortly its erection = accepted Christianity as state religion, that is itself significant as = event, and becoming as the sample for the late temples of Rus, it is the = most ancient temple today that were preserved from old times up to our = times. The St. Sophia Cathedral was the main metropolitan Cathedral of Old Rus. = It was its spiritual and vital political, scientific and cultural = centre. Here the most important state affairs were decided, including = the adoption of the first legislative acts of Old Rus, conducting = interstate negotiations and concluding political agreements. It was at = the St. Sophia of Kyiv that the first library in Old Rus was formed. = There is a burial place here for a dynasty of Grand Princes of Kyivan = Rus and many metropolitans. A tomb of the Great Prince Yaroslav the = Wise, during whose rule Kyivan Rus reached its greatest prosperity, is = located here. It was founded at that time a base of a further = development of the nation as a characteristic European nation and = fundamentals of its federating in a world community. It was made by = installation of wide diplomatic, cultural, economical, and also dynasty = (related) connections. It was formed a wonderful architectural ensemble of monastic buildings = around the St. Sophia Cathedral during the further centuries, which one = was preserved to our times. It was a witness of many events that were = nonseparately related with a national and all-European history. In 1990 the St. Sophia Cathedral of the 11th century together with its = ensemble of monastic buildings of the 18th century at its territory was = included on the UNESCO World Heritage List. Dr. Y.Maslov E-mail: stsfund@uni.net.ua =20 For further information, please, forward Registration Form to the = Organizing Committee=20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C21991.F3AABB00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   

  English | =  German | =  Russian=20

 =20

     Charitable = Fund "Saint=20 Sophia"

P.O. BOX 10 Kyiv 1032, Ukraine Tel./Fax: +38 (044) 244-18-72 = E-mail:=20 stsfund@uni.net.ua

Sehr geehrte Dame und Herren,

im Auftrag des Organisationskomitees des Internationalen Seminares = "Problems=20 and experience of the historic sites and of conservation of a cultural = heritage"=20 teile ich Ihnen das mit, dass ist die Frist der Annahme der Thesen der = Berichte=20 auf das Seminar bis zum 15. Juli 2002 verlaengert.

Das Seminar findet an Statt Kiew (Ukraine) ab 30. September bis 2. = Oktober=20 2002.

Das Seminar wird sich auf der Initiative der Stiftung =93Heiliges = Sophia =94 bei=20 der Unterstuetzung des Ratstdt von Kiew geleitet.

Eine der grundlegenden Richtung der Taetigkeit der Stiftung = =93Heiliges Sophia=93=20 ist die Mithilfe dem Austausch der Erfahrung zwischen fuehrend = Fachmaennern und=20 Organisationen aus verschiedenen Laendern in dem Gebiet Denkmalschutz = und=20 Denkmalpflege.

In dieser Richtung arbeitet die Stiftung zusammen mit der staatlichen = Organisationen der Ukraine, die fuer die Erhaltung das kulturell Erbe=20 verantwortlich ist, sowie den Wiederherstellungskorporationen und die = Firmen in=20 Ukraine und hinter ihren Grenzen auch.

Die Teilnehmer des Organisationskomitees des Seminares sind die = Vertreter die=20 Munizipalitaet von Kiew, der Ukrainische UNESCO Nationalen Kommission, = des=20 Ministeriums der Kultur und der Kuenste, des Staatlichen Komitees fuer = den Bau=20 und der Architektur, des ICOMOS Komitee.

Das Seminar ist auf die Architekten, Restauratoren, der Ingenieure, = der=20 Archaeologen, der Fachmaenner aus der Verwaltungsgebiet, der = Wissenschaftler,=20 der Fachmanner und der Studenten der hoechsten Ausbildungseinrichtungen=20 Architektonisch- und des Bauprofils orientiert, das sich direkt der = Aufgaben der=20 Erhaltung das historisch und kulturell Erbe beschaeftigt sind.

Im Auftrag des Organisationskomitees des Seminares habe ich die Ehre, = die=20 Fachmaenner Ihres Landes einzuladen, an der Arbeit des Seminares = teilzunehmen.=20 Ich habe die Hoffnung, dass wird Ihr Arbeitseinsatz des Seminares der=20 Entwicklung der weiteren fruchtbringenden wissenschaftlich und = technischen=20 Kontakte zwischen den Fachmaennern unserer Laender dienen.

Die Bedingungen des Teilnahme im Seminar lege ich bei

Mit freundlichen Gruessen

Dr. Y.Maslov

E-mail: stsfund@uni.net.ua

  

For = further=20 information, please, forward Registrati= on=20 Form to the Organizing=20 Committee

 
   

 

 

Reference about the St. Sophia Cathedral of=20 Kyiv

 

The St. Sophia Cathedral was erected in the first half of the = 11th=20 century and symbolized unity and power of Old Rus. It considerably = influenced on=20 the development of the future Rus architecture. The outstanding = universal=20 importance of this monument is that the architecture of the Cathedral = has been=20 almost completely preserved since the 11th century. The main = element=20 of the Cathedral decoration is the monumental painting - its mosaic and = frescos,=20 which nonseparably bound with the architecture. The St. Sophia Cathedral = of Kyiv=20 preserves the most importance complex of the mosaics and frescos of the = epoch of=20 the 11th century. The St. Sophia Cathedral, which shortly its = erection accepted Christianity as state religion, that is itself = significant as=20 event, and becoming as the sample for the late temples of Rus, it is the = most=20 ancient temple today that were preserved from old times up to our = times.

The St. Sophia Cathedral was the main metropolitan Cathedral of Old = Rus. It=20 was its spiritual and vital political, scientific and cultural centre. = Here the=20 most important state affairs were decided, including the adoption of the = first=20 legislative acts of Old Rus, conducting interstate negotiations and = concluding=20 political agreements. It was at the St. Sophia of Kyiv that the first = library in=20 Old Rus was formed. There is a burial place here for a dynasty of Grand = Princes=20 of Kyivan Rus and many metropolitans. A tomb of the Great Prince = Yaroslav the=20 Wise, during whose rule Kyivan Rus reached its greatest prosperity, is = located=20 here. It was founded at that time a base of a further development of the = nation=20 as a characteristic European nation and fundamentals of its federating = in a=20 world community. It was made by installation of wide diplomatic, = cultural,=20 economical, and also dynasty (related) connections.

It was formed a wonderful architectural ensemble of monastic = buildings around=20 the St. Sophia Cathedral during the further centuries, which one was = preserved=20 to our times. It was a witness of many events that were nonseparately = related=20 with a national and all-European history.

In 1990 the St. Sophia Cathedral of the 11th century = together with=20 its ensemble of monastic buildings of the 18th century at its = territory was included on the UNESCO World Heritage = List.

 

Dr. Y.Maslov

E-mail: stsfund@uni.net.ua

  

For = further=20 information, please, forward Registrati= on=20 Form to the Organizing=20 Committee

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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=68=72=65=66=3d=22=6d=61=69=6c=74=6f=3a=6e=6f=6e=65=77=73=40=74=61=62=61=63=2d=73=74=6f=70=2d=63=65=6e=74=65=72=2e=63=68=22=3e=6e=6f=6e=65=77=73=40=74=61=62=61=63=2d=73=74=6f=70=2d=63=65=6e=74=65=72=2e=63=68=3c=2f=41=3e=29=3c=2f=46=4f=4e=54=3e=3c=46=4f=4e=54=20 =66=61=63=65=3d=41=72=69=61=6c=3e=26=6e=62=73=70=3b=3c=2f=46=4f=4e=54=3e=3c=2f=44=49=56=3e =3c=44=49=56=20=61=6c=69=67=6e=3d=63=65=6e=74=65=72=3e=3c=46=4f=4e=54=20=66=61=63=65=3d=41=72=69=61=6c=3e=3c=2f=46=4f=4e=54=3e=26=6e=62=73=70=3b=3c=2f=44=49=56=3e =3c=44=49=56=20=61=6c=69=67=6e=3d=63=65=6e=74=65=72=3e=3c=46=4f=4e=54=20=63=6f=6c=6f=72=3d=23=30=30=38=30=30=30=20=66=61=63=65=3d=41=72=69=61=6c=20 =73=69=7a=65=3d=34=3e=3c=2f=46=4f=4e=54=3e=26=6e=62=73=70=3b=3c=2f=44=49=56=3e=3c=2f=42=4f=44=59=3e=3c=2f=48=54=4d=4c=3e ------=_NextPart_001_0031_01C05A02.8AD62BA0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01C05A02.8AD62BA0-- From tex-fonts-errors Thu Jun 27 20:25:50 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09203 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2002 20:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([64.86.155.132]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g5S2Pfx24929 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2002 04:25:42 +0200 Message-Id: <200206280225.g5S2Pfx24929@tug.org> From: "MR LARRY WILSON" Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 03:26:16 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: VERY OPTIMISTIC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) MR. LARRY WILSON ACCOUNT DEPARTMENT ZENITH INTERNATIONAL BANK LIMITED 84 Ajose Adeogun Street, Victoria Island Lagos. TEL/FAX:234-1-759 3339 TO: THE MANAGING DIRECTOR/CEO DEAR SIR, RE:TRANSFER OF THE SUM OF US$30.5M DOLLARS INTO YOUR ACCOUNT FIRST,I MUST SOLICIT YOUR CONFIDENCE IN THIS TRANSACTION.THIS IS BY VIRTUE OF IT'S NATURE AS BEING UTTERLY CONFIDENTIAL AND TOP SECRET.THOUGH I KNOW THAT A TRANSACTION OF THIS MAGNITUDE WILL MAKE ANYONE APPREHENSIVE AND WORRIED.BUT IAM ASSURING YOU THAT ALL WILL BE WELL AT THE END OF THE DAY.WE HAVE DECIDED TO CONTACT YOU THROUGH THIS MEDIUM DUE TO THE URGENCY OF THIS TRANSACTION AS WE HAVE BEEN RELIABLY INFORMED OF YOUR DISCRETENESS AND ABILITY. LET ME START BY INTRODUCING MYSELF TO YOU. IAM MR. LARRY WILSON, A CHIEF ACCOUNTANT WITH THE ZENITH INTERNATIONAL BANK OF NIGERIA . MARINA BRANCH OFFICE LAGOS. I CAME TO KNOW ABOUT YOU IN MY PRIVATE SEARCH FOR A RELIABLE AND REPUTABLE PERSON TO HANDLE THIS CONFIDENTIAL TRANSACTION AS WE ARE STILL IN ACTIVE SERVICE. THE PROPOSITION. AN AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL,LATE ENGINEER BUTCH R. MIGUEL,AN OIL MERCHANT/CONTRACTOR WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF NIGERIA,UNTIL HIS DEATH THREE YEARS AGO IN A GHASTLY AIR CRASH IN AN EGYPT AIR, FLIGHT 990 WHICH OCCURED ON 2ND NOVEMBER 1999,UNTIL HIS DEATH,BANKED WITH US HERE AT ZENITH INTERNATIONAL BANK LIMITED, VICTORIA ISLAND LAGOS,AND HAD A CLOSSING BALANCE OF US$30.5M(THIRTY MILLION FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS)IN A FIXED DEPOSIT ACCOUNT,WHICH THE BANK UNQUESTIONABLY EXPECTS IT TO BE CLAIMED BY ANY AVAILABLE FOREIGN NEXT-OF-KIN TO THE LATE BENEFICIARY OR ALTERNATIVELY BE DONATED TO A DISCREDITED TRUST FUND FOR THE PURCHASE OF ARMS AND AMMUNITIONS AT THE MILITARY WAR COLLEGE IN KADUNA STATE HERE IN NORTHERN NIGERIA. SEQUEL TO THIS,FERVENT VALUABLE EFFORTS WERE MADE BY ZENITH INTERNATIONAL BANK .TO GET IN TOUCH WITH ANY OF THE MIGUEL'S FAMILY OR RELATIVES BUT PROVED TO NO AVAIL.IT IS BECAUSE OF THE PERCEIVED POSIBILITY OF NOT BEING ABLE TO LOCATE ANY OF THE LATE ENGR.BUTCH R. MIGUEL'S NEXT-OF-KIN(HE HAD NO KNOWN WIFE AND CHILDREN) THAT THE MANAGEMENT UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF OUR HONOURABLE CHAIRMAN / CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER- MR JIM OVIA, THAT AN ARRANGEMENT BE MADE FOR THE FUND TO BE DECLARED"UN-CLAIMABLE" AND SUBSIQUENTLY BE DONATED TO THE TRUST FUND FOR THE PURCHASE OF ARMS AND AMMUNITON TO FURTHER ENHANCE THE COURSE OF WAR IN AFRICA AND THE WORLD IN GENERAL. IN ORDER TO AVERT THIS CRUDE AND NEGATIVE DEVELOPMENT,SOME OF MY TRUSTED COLLEAGUES AND I NOW SEEK YOUR PERMISSION TO HAVE YOU STAND AS THE NEXT-OF-KIN TO LATE ENGR. BUTCH R.MIGUEL, SO THAT THE FUND US$30.5M WOULD BE RELEASED AND PAID INTO YOUR ACCOUNT AS THE BENEFICIARY'S NEXT-OF KIN.ALL DOCUMENTS AND PROVES TO ENABLE YOU RECIEVE THIS FUND WILL BE CAREFULLY WORKED OUT AND MORESO AS PROFESSIONAL BANKERS, WE ARE ASSURING YOU OF 100% RISK-FREE INVOLVEMENT. YOUR SHARE STAYS WHILE THE REST WILL BE FOR MYSELF AND MY COLLEAGUES FOR INVESTMENT PURPOSES IN YOUR COUNTRY. NOTE THAT THIS TRANSACTION WILL STRICTLY BE BASED ON THE FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS AS I HAVE STATED BELOW, AS WE HAVE HEARD CONFIRMED CASES OF BUSINESS ASSOCIATES RUNNING AWAY WITH FUNDS KEPT IN THEIR CUSTODY WHEN IT IS FINALLY REMITTED INTO THIER BANK ACCOUNTS.A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE IS THE ONE OF MR. PETER HOPWOOD,THE PRESIDENT OF MILEAGE TRADING AND INVESTMENT COMPANY AT NUMBER 121, WEST 55TH STREET,21st FLOOR,NEW YORK 10022, AND THE FORMER CHAIRMAN OF OMPADEC(MR PATRICK OPIA)WHOM WE WERE RELIABLY INFORMED THAT AFTER THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN BOTH PARTNERS IN WHICH HE WAS TO TAKE 15% OF THE MONEY WHILE THE REMAINING 85% FOR THE NIGERIAN OFFICIALS. WITH ALL THE REMAINING DOCUMENTS SIGNED,THE MONEY WAS DULY TRANSFERED INTO MR HOPWOOD'S ACCOUNT, ONLY TO BE DISAPPOINTED ON THEIR ARRIVAL IN NEW YORK AND WERE INFORMED THAT MR PETER HOPWOOD WAS NO LONGER ON THAT ADDRESS,WHILE HIS TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBERS HAD BEEN RE-ALLOCATED TO SOME BODY ELSE. tHIS WAS HOW THEY LOST US$18.5M TO MR HOPWOOD.THIS IS A VERY RECENT STORY HERE IN MY COUNTRY AND EVERYBODY IS AWARE OF THIS.SOME OF THE OFFICIALS DECIDED TO CRY OUT AND FACE THE LAW,BECAUSE THEY FELT THEY HAD LOST SO MUCH TO A STRANGER,WHILE THE CHAIRMAN OF OMPADEC(MR PATRICK OPIA)IS NOW HIDDING IN A FORIEGN COUNTRY.SO RIGHT NOW, IAM TAKING ALL PRECAUTIONARY MEASURES TO GUARD AGAINST RE-OCCURENCE OF SUCH ACT IN OUR CASE.THIAS IS WHY WE HAVE DECIDED THAT THIS TRANSACTION WILL BE BASED ON THE FOLLOWING:- (a) OUR CONVICTION OF YOUR TRANSPARENCY, HONESTY AND DILIGENCE. (b) THAT YOU WILL TREAT THIS TRANSACTION WITH UTMOST SECRECY AND CONFIDENTIALITY. (c)YOU MUST BE READY TO PRODUCE US WITH ENOUGH INFORMATION ABOUT YOURSELF TO PUT OUR MINDS AT REST. (d) THAT UPON RECIEPT OF THE FUND,YOU WILL PROMPTLY RELEASE OUR SHARE ON DEMAND AFTER YOU HAVE DEDUCTED YOUR 20%. YOUR URGENCY WILL BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED AS WE ARE ALREDY BEHIND SCHEDULE FOR THIS FINANCIAL QUATER. IF THIS PROPOSAL IS ALRIGHT BY YOU,THEN KINDLY GET TO ME IMMEDIATELY FOR CONFIDENTIALITY.PLEASE REPLY THROUGH THIS ALTN:EMAILBOX--------- bank_enquiry@consultant.com THANK YOU IN ANTICIPATON OF YOUR COOPERATION. YOURS FAITHFULLY, MR. LARRY WILSON ( Chief Accountant) ZENITH INTERNATIONAL BANK LIMITED . VICTORIA ISLAND, LAGOS. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 2 15:15:02 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19486 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from INSPIRON8100.we.client2.attbi.com (c-24-130-232-61.we.client2.attbi.com [24.130.232.61]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g62LEQx27790 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:14:35 +0200 From: "Michael Wilson" To: "email" Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 13:53:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: I made $230,000 in two months Message-ID: <3D21B075.22777.1242E69@localhost> Priority: urgent X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) You owe it to yourself and your wealth to read this. AS SEEN ON NATIONAL TV: "Making over half a million dollars every 4 to 5 months >From your home for an investment of only $25 U.S. Dollars expense one time" THANKS TO THE COMPUTER AGE AND THE INTERNET! BE A MILLIONAIRE LIKE OTHERS WITHIN A YEAR!! Before you say "bull", please read the following. This is the letter you have been hearing about on the news lately. Due to the popularity of this letter on the Internet, a national weekly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of this program described below, to see if it really can make people money. The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal. Their findings proved once and for all that there are "absolutely NO laws prohibiting the participation in the program and if people can follow the simple instructions, they are bound to make some mega bucks with only $25 out of pocket cost". DUE TO THE RECENT INCREASE OF POPULARITY & RESPECT THIS PROGRAM HAS ATTAINED, IT IS CURRENTLY WORKING BETTER THAN EVER. This is what one had to say: "Thanks to this profitable opportunity. I was approached many times before but each time I passed on it. I am so glad I finally joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received total $610,470.00 in 21 weeks, with money still coming in". Pam Hedland, Fort Lee, New Jersey. Here is another testimonial: "This program has been around for a long time but I never believed in it. But one day when I received this again in the mail I decided to gamble my $25 on it. I followed the simple instructions and walaa 3 weeks later the money started to come in. First month I only made $240.00 but the next 2 months after that I made a total of $290,000.00. So far, in the past 8 months by re-entering the program, I have made over $710,000.00 and I am playing it again. The key to success in this program is to follow the simple steps and NOT change anything." More testimonials later but first, PRINT THIS NOW FOR YOUR FUTURE REFERENCE If you would like to make at least $500,000 every 4 to 5 months easily and comfortably, please read the following.. THEN READ IT AGAIN and AGAIN!!! FOLLOW THE SIMPLE INSTRUCTION BELOW AND YOUR FINANCIAL DREAMS WILL COME TRUE, GUARANTEED! INSTRUCTIONS: Order all 5 reports shown on the list below. For each report send $5 CASH, THE NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING and YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS to the person whose name appears ON THAT LIST next to the report. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE TOP LEFT CORNER in case of any mail problems. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the 5 reports. You will need all 5 reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them. YOUR TOTAL COST $5 X 5 = $25.00. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the 5 reports from these 5 different individuals. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you. Also make a floppy of these reports and keep it on your desk. ****IMPORTANT - DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report or their sequence on the list in any way other than what is instructed below in step 1 through 6 or you will lose out on the majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works you will also see how it does not work if you change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will NOT work!!! People have tried to put their friends/relatives names on all five thinking they could get all the money. But it does not work this way. Believe us, we all have tried to be greedy and then nothing happened. So Do Not try to change anything other than what is instructed. Because if you do, it will NOT work for you. Remember, honesty reaps the rewards!!! 1. After you have ordered all 5 reports, take this advertisement and REMOVE the name & address of the person in REPORT #5. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their fortune. 2. Move the name & address in REPORT #4 down TO REPORT #5. 3. Move the name & address in REPORT # 3 down TO REPORT #4. 4. Move the name & address in REPORT #2 down TO REPORT #3. 5. Move the name & address in REPORT # 1 down TO REPORT #2 6. Insert YOUR name & address in the REPORT # 1 Position. PLEASE MAKE SURE you copy every name & address ACCURATELY! Take this entire letter, with the modified list of names, and save it on your computer. DO NOT MAKE ANY OTHER CHANGES. Save this on a disk as well just in case if you loose any data. To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing information which includes how to send bulk e-mails legally, where to find thousands of free classified ads and much more. There are 2 Primary methods to get this venture going: METHOD # 1: BY SENDING BULK E-MAIL LEGALLY Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and we will assume you and those involved send out only 5,000 e-mails each. Let's also assume that the mailings receive only a 0.2% response (the response could be much better but let's just say it is only 0.2%. Also many people will send out hundreds of thousands e-mails instead of only 5,000 each). Continuing with this example, you send out only 5,000 e-mails. With a 0,2% response, that is only 10 orders for report # 1. Those 10 people responded by sending out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 50,000. Out of those 50,000 e-mails only 0.2% responded with orders. That's = 100 people responded and ordered Report # 2. Those 100 people mail out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 500,000 e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 1000 orders for Report # 3. Those 1000 people send out 5000 e-mails each for a total of 5 million e-mails sent out. The 0.20% response to that is 10,000 orders for Report #4. Those 10,000 people send out 5,000 e-mails each for a total of 50,000,000 (50 million) e-mails. The 0.2% response to that is 100,000 orders for Report #5. THATS 100,000 ORDERS TIMES $5 EACH = $500,000.00 (half million). Your total income in this example is: 1 $50 + 2 $500 + 3 $5,000 + 4 $50,000 + 5 $500,000 Grand Total = $555,550.00 NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. GET A PENCIL & PAPER AND FIGURE OUT THE WORST POSSIBLE RESPONSES AND NO MATTER HOW YOU CALCULATE IT, YOU WILL STILL MAKE A LOT OF MONEY! REMEMBER FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING ONLY 10 PEOPLE ORDERING OUT OF 5,000 YOU MAILED TO. Dare to think for a-moment what would happen if everyone, or half or even one 4th of those people mailed 100,000 e-mails each or more? There are over 150 million people on the internet worldwide and counting. Believe me, many people will do just that and more! METHOD #2 BY PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET Advertising on the net is very, very inexpensive and there are hundreds of FREE places to advertise. Placing a lot of free ads on the Internet will easily get a larger response. We strongly suggest you start with Method # I and add METHOD #2 as you go along. For every $5 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the Report they ordered. That's it. Always provide same day service on all orders. This will, guarantee that the e-mail they send out, with your name and address on it, will be prompt because they can not advertise until they receive the report. AVAILABLE REPORTS ORDER EACH REPORT BY ITS NUMBER & NAME ONLY. Notes: Always send $5 cash for each Report. Checks NOT accepted. Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least 2 sheets of paper. On one of those sheets of paper write the NUMBER & the NAME of the Report you are ordering, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and your name and postal address. PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW- REPORT #1: "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Net" Order Report #1from: Michael Wilson 1825 N Normandie Ave, #F Los Angeles, CA 90027 USA _______________________________________________ REPORT # 2:The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk e-mail on the Net." Order Report # 2 from: Charles Evans 9 Kersey Stantonbury Milton Keynes MK14 6AF United Kingdom ________________________________________________________ REPORT # 3: "Secret to Multilevel Marketing on the Net" Order Report # 3 from : Witold Stawarz 1455 Tallevast Road Suite L8369 Sarasota, FL 34243 USA ____________________________________________ REPORT # 4: "How to become a Millionaire Utilizing MLM and the Net." Order Report # 4 from: J.Z. Kolonia Browar 55 34-300 Zywiec Poland _____________ _________________________________________________________ __ REPORT # 5: "How to Send Out One Million e-mails for FREE" Order Report # 5 from: John Gerken Box 703 401 Pine Street Abilene, Texas 79601 USA YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success: If you do not receive at least 10 orders for Report #1 within 2 weeks, continue sending e-mails until you do. After you have received 10 orders: 2 to 3 weeks after that you should receive 100 orders or more for REPORT #2. If you did not, continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for Report # 2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you and the cash will continue to roll in THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list you are placed in front of a different report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you. IF YOU WANT TO GENERATE MORE INCOME SEND ANOTHER BATCH OF E- MAILS AND START THE WHOLE PROCESS AGAIN. There is NO LIMIT to the income you can generate from this business. FOLLOWING IS A NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM: "You have just received information that can give you financial freedom for the rest of your life, with NO RISK and JUST A LITTLE BIT OF EFFORT You can make more money in the next few weeks and months than you have ever imagined. Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do Not change it in any way. It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of this exciting report after you have put your name and address in Report #1 and moved the others to #2 - # 5 as instructed above. One of the people you send this to may send out 100,000 or more e-mails and your name will be on everyone of them. Remember though, the more you send out the more potential customers you will reach. So my friend, I have given you the ideas, information, materials and opportunity to become financially independent. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW! MORE TESTIMONIALS My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody and I live in Chicago. I am an accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received this program I grumbled to Jody about receiving "junk mail". I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Jody totally ignored my supposed intelligence and few days later she jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work. Well, the laugh was on me within 3 weeks she had received 50 responses. Within the next 45 days she had received a total of$ 147,200.00 all cash! I was shocked. I have joined Jody in her "hobby" Mitchell Wolf M.D. Chicago, Illinois Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. I was surprised when I found my medium size post office box crammed with orders. I made $319,210.00 in the first 12 weeks. The nice thing about this deal is that it does not matter where people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return and so big. Dan Sondstrom, Alberta, Canada "I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I should have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed again by someone else. 11 months passed then it luckily came again I did not delete this one! I made more than $490,000 on my first try and all the money came within 22 weeks". Susan De Suza, New York, N.Y "It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money with little cost to you. I followed the simple instructions carefully and within 10 days the money started to come in. My first month I made $ 20, 560.00 and by the end of third month my total cash count was $362,840.00. Life is beautiful, Thanx to the internet". Fred Dellaca1 Westport, New Zealand Your local bank or post office can help you exchange local currency in to US retain the system in US Dollars so we are all on the same playing field. Good Luck, it really works. ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! If you have any questions of the legality of this program, contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices, Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Washington, D.C. ONE TIME MAILING, NO NEED TO REMOVE From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 2 20:04:11 2002 Flags: 000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.20.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24512 for ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 20:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:04:32 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:04:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = jcclburgos@yahoo.es Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = A very new game Scanning Time = 07/02/2002 21:04:30 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/307 Action on message: The attachment rock.exe matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\rock3d225bad142.exe_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jul 3 10:29:02 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from aa-gq363ns77uy7 (218-162-48-202.HINET-IP.hinet.net [218.162.48.202]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA04563 for ; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 10:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 10:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail by tpts6.seed.net.tw with SMTP id DRGuqmohYV1yIJl3qRa6k7QzKQQ; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:35:27 +0800 Message-ID: <5zlB3qEwZYejo85@iris.seed.net.tw> From: ham.li1509@msa.hinet.net To: 0608-1, 0607-3, 0607-2, 0607-1, 0604-1 Subject: =?big5?Q?=A4G=A4Q=A4@=A5@=AC=F6=AA=BA=A9=FA=A4=E9=A4=A7=ACP?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_6yJFcTLSDeaGP4BJG" X-Mailer: ooME8wMM166z7L9 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_6yJFcTLSDeaGP4BJG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_6yJFcTLSDeaGP4BJGAA" 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([216.158.196.30]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g63Kn4x02770; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:49:04 +0200 Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:49:04 +0200 Message-Id: <200207032049.g63Kn4x02770@tug.org> Received: from host.virtualhostingsolutions.net ([209.239.60.243]) by promold01.promolddie.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id N72RTGWL; Wed, 3 Jul 2002 15:44:37 -0500 From: Brandyng To: Subject: Find Clients OnLine !!! Reply-To: Brandyng Errors-To: Brandyng Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) X-Amavis-Warning: last hop is listed in ORDB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Untitled Document
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Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 15:37:50 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Venture Capital MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Petroleum (Special) Trust Fund Contract Award Committee National Secretariat Victoria-Island Lagos-Nigeria. ATTENTION: MANAGING DIRECTOR The Petroleum Special Trust Fund was set up by the late Head of State General Sani Abacha who died on 8th June 1998, to manage the excess revenue accruing from the sale of petroleum and its allied products as a result of domestic increase in the prices of petroleum products. The estimated annual revenue for 1999 was 45 billion US Dollars Ref. FMF A26 Unit 3B paragraph "D" of the Auditor General of the Federal Republic of Nigeria Report of NOV. 1999 on estimated revenue. I am the Chairman of the Contract Award committee and my committee is solely responsible for awarding and payment of contracts on behalf of the Federal Government of Nigeria . My Committee awarded contracts to foreign contractors for the supply of Agricultural Machines and spare parts to the Ministry of Agriculture and Natural Resources. We overshot the contract sum by USD18 Million. We have paid the contractors and withholding the balance of 18 Million United States Dollars. Beceause of existing domestic laws forbidding civil servants from opening, operating and maintaining foreign accounts, we do not have the expertise to transfer this balance of funds to a foreign account. However, this balance of 18 Million United States Dollars has been secured in form of credit/payment to a foreign contractor.Hence, we wish to transfer into your bank account as the beneficiary of the funds. We have also arrived at a conclusion that you will be compensated to the tune of 25% of the total sum transfered while 5% will be reserved for incidental expenses that both parties will incur in the course of actualizing this transaction and the balance of 70% will be kept for the Committee members. If you know you are capable of helping us actualize our life's dream,You should send to me immediately the details of your bank particulars or open a new account where we can transfer the money(US$18M)which you will hold in trust for us until we come over there for our own share. As soon as you open the account, send by e-mail to me or through my partner ABBAS BABA (bassb1@eudoramail.com ) immediately with the details of the account viz: Name of bank, address, routing number, telex number, Account number, Tel and Fax number.You should also include the name of your company, your personal address, Tel and Fax numbers for further communication. Note that this transaction will be concluded within 10 working days from the day you give your consent. Sincerely yours, Dr.Samson Osage Email: samson_osage@yahoo.com From tex-fonts-errors Thu Jul 4 09:06:10 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20615 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msr.hinet.net (msr60.hinet.net [168.95.4.160]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g64F61x08217 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 17:06:04 +0200 Received: from mydomain.com (higp6.gatelock.com.tw [211.20.183.166]) by msr.hinet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA03358 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 23:06:13 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 23:06:13 +0800 (CST) Received: from ([61.217.30.197]) by higp6.gatelock.com.tw with ISVW_SMTP 3.51.1231(6.150-1001,307) id 3178D0D57061FE96184409E2FECFEB6F951155B4E40986D7C7406232E76; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 23:14:49 +0800 Received: from mail by titan.seed.net.tw with SMTP id eJevQRFo4EZeU4K83pVk; Thu, 04 Jul 2002 23:04:46 +0800 Message-ID: From: S-TYPE@msr.hinet.net To: OK-01@msr.hinet.net Subject: 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_3wOP8ZbNPE8oYXbY2n8VPVef4rQL" X-Mailer: YwSdMubiXMJYLNgmey X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_3wOP8ZbNPE8oYXbY2n8VPVef4rQL Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_3wOP8ZbNPE8oYXbY2n8VPVef4rQLAA" ------=_NextPart_3wOP8ZbNPE8oYXbY2n8VPVef4rQLAA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCEtLSBzYXZlZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPCEt LSBzYXZlZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPCEtLSBz YXZlZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPCEtLSBzYXZl ZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPGh0bWw+DQoNCjxo 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<6al@pavo.seed.net.tw> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27163 for ; Thu, 4 Jul 2002 21:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from msr.hinet.net (msr43.hinet.net [168.95.4.143]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g653bnx11499 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 05:37:50 +0200 Received: from mydomain.com (higp6.gatelock.com.tw [211.20.183.166]) by msr.hinet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13252 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2002 11:38:06 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 11:38:06 +0800 (CST) Received: from ([61.216.128.223]) by higp6.gatelock.com.tw with ISVW_SMTP 3.51.1231(6.150-1001,307) id 3172ACABBEAE60422C5409E2FECFEB6F951155B4E40986D7C74062B2976; Fri, 05 Jul 2002 11:46:41 +0800 Received: from tpts4 by mars.seed.net.tw with SMTP id YnxOqdNTeT44srFKNAt3id5T; Fri, 05 Jul 2002 11:36:42 +0800 Message-ID: <632Ze92@mars.seed.net.tw> From: ¦³ª©Åv¤é¼@¨C®M¥u­n100¤¸ To: OK-01@msr.hinet.net, OK-02@msr.hinet.net, ok-03@msr.hinet.net Subject: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_FTepnZWnSSFLf5w6aqd2" X-Mailer: ElY26SIV9HqIZCyeU8ZwuXp X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_FTepnZWnSSFLf5w6aqd2 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_FTepnZWnSSFLf5w6aqd2AA" ------=_NextPart_FTepnZWnSSFLf5w6aqd2AA Content-Type: text/html; charset="big5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PCEtLSBzYXZlZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPCEt LSBzYXZlZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPCEtLSBz YXZlZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPCEtLSBzYXZl ZCBmcm9tIHVybD0oMDAyMilodHRwOi8vaW50ZXJuZXQuZS1tYWlsIC0tPg0KPGh0bWw+DQoNCjxo ZWFkPg0KPG1ldGEgbmFtZT0iR0VORVJBVE9SIiBjb250ZW50PSJNaWNyb3NvZnQgRnJvbnRQYWdl 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Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24266 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 11:01:07 -0600 (MDT) From: customdesignedwebsites@hotmail.com Received: from server.nth.local (host213-122-218-224.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.122.218.224] (may be forged)) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g67GxHx32426 for ; Sun, 7 Jul 2002 18:59:32 +0200 Message-ID: <002f01c225d1$38194d10$0100a8c0@nth.local> To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Are YOU looking for a new website, to develop an existing website, for cheaper hosting or domain names? Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 17:13:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002C_01C225D9.99BA0070" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C225D9.99BA0070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Are YOU looking for a new website, to develop an existing website, for = cheaper hosting or domain names? We are a UK based company who would like to offer you our considerable = experience and expertise in the field of website design, eCommerce, web = hosting, domain name facilities and search engine positioning. We can offer you cheaper solutions with domain name registration from = =A310 per year, website design both new and updated sites undertaken = >From =A3100, website hosting from =A360 per year, full professional = after sales service and website maintenance from =A310 per month, secure = server space and security certificates from =A350 per year, marketing = tips and advice free to our clients, top ranking search engine positioning available.=20 All of our designs are custom made for our client's requirements and are = our best advert. We are independently tested on a daily basis and are = consistently in the top of the performance listings of all the major ISP = hosting companies in the UK. So, whether you want to advertise your business more effectively, reach = a larger catchment area or sell in the global market; WE have the BEST = solution for you.=20 Due to the bespoke nature of our website development most of our clients = prefer to discuss their requirements by telephone, please send us a = contact phone number and we will contact you shortly to discuss your = needs in more detail. Alternatively,=20 please ask for more details by replying to this email for a prompt = response. We look forward to hearing from you.=20 This is NOT spam. You are receiving this message because your email = address was used on one of our web sites. If your email address was used without your permission or you no longer = want to receive email from us, we apologise for any inconvenience caused and ask that you simply reply to this email putting = remove as the subject. ------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C225D9.99BA0070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Are YOU looking for a new website, to = develop an=20 existing website, for cheaper hosting or domain names?
 
We are a UK based company who would = like to offer=20 you our considerable experience and expertise in the field of website = design,=20 eCommerce, web hosting, domain name facilities and search engine=20 positioning.
We can offer you cheaper solutions with domain name = registration=20 >From =A310 per year, website design both new and updated sites = undertaken from=20 =A3100, website hosting from =A360 per year, full professional after = sales service=20 and website maintenance from =A310 per month, secure server space and = security=20 certificates from =A350 per year, marketing tips and advice free to our = clients,=20 top ranking search
engine positioning available.
 
All of our designs are custom made for = our client's=20 requirements and are our best advert. We are independently tested on a = daily=20 basis and are consistently in the top of the performance listings of all = the=20 major ISP hosting companies in the UK.
 
So, whether you want to advertise your = business=20 more effectively, reach a larger catchment area or sell in the global = market; WE=20 have the BEST solution for you.
 
Due to the bespoke nature of our = website=20 development most of our clients prefer to discuss their requirements by=20 telephone,  please send us a contact phone number and we will = contact you=20 shortly to discuss your needs in more detail. Alternatively,
please = ask for=20 more details by replying to this email for a prompt = response.
 
We look forward to hearing from you. =
 

This is NOT spam. You are receiving = this=20 message because your email address was used on one of our web = sites.
If your=20 email address was used without your permission or you no longer want to = receive=20 email from us, we apologise for any
inconvenience caused and ask that = you=20 simply reply to this email putting remove as the=20 subject.
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01C225D9.99BA0070-- From tex-fonts-errors Mon Jul 8 17:06:39 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from ruru.local (203-79-122-66.cable.paradise.net.nz [203.79.122.66]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16664 for ; Mon, 8 Jul 2002 17:06:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ruru.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ruru.local (8.12.3/8.12.3/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id g68N6aaY006290 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:06:36 +1200 Received: (from volker@localhost) by ruru.local (8.12.3/8.12.3/Submit) id g68N6Zi8006289 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:06:35 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: ruru.local: volker set sender to list0570@paradise.net.nz using -f Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:06:35 +1200 From: V K To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: SPAM, viruses... Message-ID: <20020708230635.GE4241@paradise.net.nz> References: <1023609925.3d030c45a55c0@diogel.enst-bretagne.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1023609925.3d030c45a55c0@diogel.enst-bretagne.fr> On Sun 09 Jun 2002 20:05:25 NZST +1200, Yannis.Haralambous@enst-bretagne.fr wrote: > More and more SPAM messages and viruses appear on this list. Could we > make it private, or change it's name? Or may be somebody could supervise > it like TeXMag in the good old days? Update: nothing but spam is on this list. Subscriber-only posting is now mandated. Who runs this list? Is it in fact still being used? Not many real posts in a month. Anyone still subscribed? Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is possibly list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.orcon.net.nz/ Please do not CC list postings to me. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 9 08:24:54 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from f7.net (consort.superb.net [209.61.216.22]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26497 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from karl@localhost) by f7.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g69EOEQ23559; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:24:14 -0400 Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:24:14 -0400 Message-Id: <200207091424.g69EOEQ23559@f7.net> From: karl@freefriends.org (Karl Berry) To: hidden@paradise.net.nz Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: SPAM, viruses... Who runs this list? Nelson Beebe (beebe@math.utah.edu). Is it in fact still being used? Sure. Not many real posts in a month. Not many is not the same as none. Anyone still subscribed? Sure. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 9 10:04:12 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from laposte.enst-bretagne.fr (laposte.enst-bretagne.fr [192.108.115.3]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28512 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antares.enst-bretagne.fr (antares.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.75.8]) by laposte.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g69G3YC20896; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:03:34 +0200 Received: from [192.44.75.146] (mharalambous.enst-bretagne.fr [192.44.75.146]) by antares.enst-bretagne.fr (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g69G3VU04888; Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:03:31 +0200 (MEST) From: Yannis Haralambous To: , , Subject: Re: [spam score 3/10 -pobox] Re: SPAM, viruses... Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 18:03:23 +0200 Message-Id: <20020709160323.3778@antares.enst-bretagne.fr> In-Reply-To: <200207091424.g69EOEQ23559@f7.net> References: <200207091424.g69EOEQ23559@f7.net> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C9cole=20Nationale=20Sup=E9rieure=20des=20T=E9l=E9coms=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?de=20Bretagne?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) at enst-bretagne.fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA28518 Strange as it may seem, this message---which is certainly not a spam and does not contain the words one usually finds in a spam---was rated as spam ([spam score 3/10]) by my ISP (pobox)... I wonder why > Who runs this list? > >Nelson Beebe (beebe@math.utah.edu). > > Is it in fact still being used? > >Sure. > > Not many real posts in a month. > >Not many is not the same as none. > > Anyone still subscribed? > >Sure. > > +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis.haralambous@enst-bretagne.fr | | Directeur d'Études http://omega.enstb.org/yannis | | Tel. +33 (0)2.29.00.14.27 | | Fax +33 (0)2.29.00.12.82 | | Département Informatique | | École Nationale Supérieure des Télécommunications de Bretagne | | Technopôle de Brest Iroise, BP 832, 29285 Brest CEDEX, France | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'extérieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'être pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has not yet reached the ground From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jul 10 20:10:50 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28128 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 20:10:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([192.116.119.63]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6B2Acx23552 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 04:10:39 +0200 Message-Id: <200207110210.g6B2Acx23552@tug.org> From: "DR SELECK DOUGLAS" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 03:02:20 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: BUSINESS PROPOSAL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) UNION BANK OF NIGERIA PLC. UNION BANK HOUSE LAGOS-NIGERIA TELE/FAX:234-1-7762125 ATTN: I AM THE DIRECTOR OF BILLS AND EXCHANGE AT THE FOREIGN REMITTANCE DEPARTMENT OF UNION BANK OF NIGERIA PLC. I AM WRITING FOLLOWING THE IMPRESSIVE INFORMATION ABOUT YOU THROUGH ONE OF MY FRIENDS WHO RUNS A CONSULTANCY FIRM . HE ASSURED ME OF YOUR CAPABILITY AND RELIABILITY TO CHAMPION THIS BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY. IN MY DEPARTMENT WE DISCOVERED AN ABANDONED SUM OF US$18.5M ( EIGHTEEN MILLION FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS ONLY) IN AN ACCOUNT THAT BELONGS TO ONE OF OUR FOREIGN CUSTOMERS WHO DIED ALONG WITH HIS ENTIRE FAMILY IN NOVEMBER 1998 IN A PLANE CRASH. SINCE WE GOT INFORMATION ABOUT HIS DEATH, WE HAVE BEEN EXPECTING HIS NEXT OF KIN TO COME OVER AND CLAIM HIS MONEY BECAUSE WE CANNOT RELEASE IT UNLESS SOMEBODY APPLIES FOR IT AS NEXT OF KIN OR RELATION TO THE DECEASED AS INDICATED IN OUR BANKING GUIDELINES. UNFORTUNATELY WE LEARNT THAT ALL HIS SUPPOSED NEXT OF KIN OR RELATIONS DIED ALONG WITH HIM AT THE PLANE CRASH LEAVING NOBODY BEHIND FOR THE CLAIM. IT IS THEREFORE UPON THIS DISCOVERY THAT I AND OTHER OFFICIALS IN THE DEPARTMENT NOW DECIDED TO MAKE BUSINESS WITH YOU AND RELEASED THE MONEY TO YOU AS THE NEXT OF KIN OR RELATIONS OF THE DECEASED FOR SAFETY AND SUBSEQUENT DISBURSEMENT SINCE NOBODY IS COMING FOR IT AND WE DON’T WANT THIS MONEY TO GO DISBURSEMENT ACCOUNT AS UNCLAIMED BILL. THE BANKING LAW AND GUIDELINES HERE STIPULATED THAT IF SUCH MONEY REMAINED UNCLAIMED AFTER FOUR YEARS THE MONEY WILL BE TRANSFERRED INTO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACCOUNT AS UNCLAIMED FUND. THE REQUEST OF A FOREIGNER AS NEXT OF KIN IN THIS BUSINESS IS OCCASIONED BY THE FACT THAT THE CUSTOMERS WAS A FOREIGNER AND A NIGERIAN CANNOT STAND AS NEXT OF KIN TO A FOREIGNER. WE AGREE THAT 30% OF THIS MONEY WILL BE FOR YOU AS FOREIGN PARTNER AND 10% FOR EXPENSES INCURRED DURING THE COURSE OF REMITTANCE. THEREAFTER TO THE PERCENTAGES INDICATED. THEREFORE TO ENABLE THE IMMEDIATE TRANSFER OF THE FUND TO YOU AS ARRANGED. YOU MUST APPLY FIRST TO THE BANK A RELATION OR NEXT OF KIN OF THE DECEASED INDICATING YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER AND LOCATION WHERE IN THE MONEY WILL BE REMITTED . UPON RECEIPT OF YOUR REPLY I WILL SEND TO YOU THE TEXT OF THE APPLICATION. AS SOON AS YOU RECEIVE THIS LETTER, YOU SHOULD CONTACT ME AT ONCE THROUGH THE ABOVE STATED TELEFAX NUMBER ONLY AND INDICATE YOUR DIRECT AND CONFIDENTIAL TELEPHONE/FAX NUMBERS FOR THE EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION REQUIRED. TRUSTING TO HEAR FORM YOU IMMEDIATELY. YOURS FAITHFULLY, DR SELECK DOUGLAS DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL REMITTANCE DEPARTMENT UBN OF NIGERIA PLC. From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jul 10 21:20:27 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28698 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 21:20:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([213.181.66.141]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6B3KKx23803 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:20:21 +0200 Message-Id: <200207110320.g6B3KKx23803@tug.org> From: "BENSON SEKO" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 04:18:52 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: PLEASE CAN YOU ASSIST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) DEAR FRIEND, I AM BENSON SEKO SON OF THE LATE MOBUTU SESE SEKO, THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE ZAIRE. I AM PRESENTLY UNDER PROTECTION IN NIGERIA AS A POLITICAL REFUGEE. I GOT YOUR CONTACT DURING MY SEARCH FOR A STRANGER THAT CAN COOPERATE WITH ME IN THIS MUTUAL TRANSACTION. I WANT YOU TO NOTE THAT THIS BUSINESS WILL BENEFIT BOTH OF US. HOWEVER, YOU MUST CONFIRM YOUR ABILITY TO HANDLE THIS BECAUSE IT INVOLVES A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY. THE MONEY (47 MILLION US DOLLARS ) I ESCAPED WITH MY PARENTS ALONG WITH MY BROTHER BASHER OUT OF DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO (DRC) TO ABIDJAN, COTE D'IVOIRE WHERE MY FAMILY AND I SETTLED, WHILE WE LATER MOVED TO SETTLED IN MORROCO WHERE MY FATHER LATER DIED OF CANCER DISEASE.I DECIDED LAYING LOW IN AFRICA TO STUDY THE SITUATION TILL WHEN THINGS GETS BETTER, LIKE NOW THAT PRESIDENT KABILA IS DEAD AND THE SON TAKING OVER (JOSEPH KABILA). ONE OF MY LATE FATHER'S CHATEAUX IN SOUTHERN FRANCE WAS CONFISCATED BY THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT, THIS LED TO THE DECISION TO TURN THE REMAINING FUNDS OVER TO A SAFE SECURITY COMPANY IN EUROPE VIA THE DIPLOMATIC COURIER SERVICES FOR SAFE KEEPING AS MOST OF MY FATHER'S BILLIONS OF DOLLARS DEPOSITED IN SWISS BANKS AND OTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS HAVE BEEN FROZEN BY THE GOVERNMENT OF (DR) MR LAURENT KABILA HAVING CONCLUDED ARRANGEMENTS WITH THE SWISS GOVERNMENT AND OTHER CONTRIES INVOLVED. NOW THE CRISIS HAS ABATED I AM LOOKING FOR A PERSON LIKE YOU TO PROCEED TO THE PLACE OF THE SECURITY COMPANY IN ORDER TO CLEAR THE FUND AND INVEST ON MY BEHALF AS I DON’T WANT MY NAME TO BE USED FOR NOW AS I REALISE VERY MUCH THE TYPE OF HATRED LATE KABILA THE FORMER HEAD OF STATE HAS FOR MY LATE FATHER AND EVEN HIS SON WHO IS NOW THE HEAD OF STATE. NOTE THAT I WILL SEND TO YOU THE RELEVANT DOCUMENTS THAT WILL ENABLE YOU TAKE POSSESION OF THE FUND FOR ONWARD INVESTMENT FOR OUR MUTUAL BENEFIT. ALL I NEED FROM YOU IS AS FOLLOWS: 1. A COMMITTMENT THAT YOU WILL KEEP THE TRANSACTION STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL. 2. YOUR CONFIRMATION OF YOUR ABILITY TO HANDLE THIS. 3. YOUR TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBERS INCLUDING MOBILE FOR EASY COMMUNICATION. 4. YOUR FULL PERMANENT ADDRESS. AS SOON AS I GET THE ABOVE INFORMATION FROM YOU, I WILL DISCLOSE TO YOU THE NAME AND THE COUNTRY OF THE SECURITY COMPANY SO THAT YOU CAN MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO TRAVEL AND COLLECT THE LUGGAGES. I AM WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSE VIA EMAIL:bseko@omaninfo.com TO ENABLE US PROCEED. REGARDS. BENSON SEKO From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jul 10 22:32:55 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29364 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:32:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([212.100.64.68]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6B4Wex24064 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:32:41 +0200 Message-Id: <200207110432.g6B4Wex24064@tug.org> From: "YUSUF" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:31:01 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: READ THIS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) MR. YUSUF ALI, CHAIRMAN, CONTRACTS AWARDS AND IMPLIMENTATION COMMITEE. IT IS WITH NATURAL TRUST THAT I WRITE TO SOLICIT YOUR PARTNERSHIP AND ASSISTANCE IN AN URGENT AND MUTUALLY BENEFITING BUSINESS TRANSACTION. I GOT YOUR DATA FROM THE NIGERIAN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY, AND A CHECK ON YOUR PROFILE HAS CONVINCED ME THAT YOU COULD BE TRUSTED WITH A LARGE SUM OF MONEY THAT WE INTEND TO TRANSFER OVERSEAS, FOR SAFE KEEPING. I AM MR. YUSUF ALI , CHAIRMAN OF THE CONTRACTS AWARDS AND IMPLEMENTATION COMMITTEE (C.A.I.C), SET UP BY THE NEW DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT IN NIGERIA, TO REVIEW AND MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR PAYMENTS ON ALL OUTSTANDING FOREIGN DEBTS RESULTING FROM CONTRACTS EXECUTED FOR THE NIGERIAN NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION (NNPC) UNDER THE PAST MILITARY DISPENSATION. DURING THE COURSE OF MY COMMITTEES ASSIGNMENT, I DISCOVERED A DELIBERATELY OVER INVOICED AND UNCLAIMED CONTRACT PAYMENT TO THE TUNE OF US$50 MILLION (FIFTY MILLION UNITED STATES DOLLARS ONLY). THIS FUND HAS BEEN FLOATING RELUCTANTLY AND UNIDENTIFIED IN THE VAULT OF THE CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA (CBN), READY FOR IMMEDIATE TRANSFER. IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE SECTARY OF MY COMMITTEE WHO IS ONLY PRIVY TO THIS, WE HAVE MADE ADEQUATE AND FULL PROOF ARRANGEMENT TO TRANSFER THE FUND IN QUESTION INTO A FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT. WITH OUR INABILITY TO TRANSFER THIS MONEY BY OUR SELVES BEING CIVIL SERVANTS, WE ARE THUS ASKING THAT YOU ASSIST US IN RECEIVING THIS FUND INTO YOUR PRIVATE OR CORPORATE BANK ACCOUNT. MODALITY TO OFFICIALLY FORWARD YOUR DATA AS THE CONTRACTOR AND THE BENEFICIARY OF THE FUND HAS BEEN PERFECTED THROUGH OUR PRIVILEGED POSITION. MOREOVER THE ORIGINAL FOREIGN CONTRACTOR OF THE OVER INFLATED GENERAL CONTRACT COVER HAS LONG BEEN PAID AND HAS SINCE LEFT NIGERIA, LEAVING US WITH NO ONE TO CONTEND WITH. FOR YOUR MOST VITAL ROLE HERE, WE HAVE AGREED TO OFFER YOU 25% OF THE TOTAL FUND, WITH 5% SET ASIDE FOR TRANSFER LOGISTICS AND EXPENSES, WHILE WE RETAIN THE BALANCE 70% IT IS HOPED THAT YOU WILL WANT TO AVAIL YOUR SELF OF THIS LIFE TIME OPPORTUNITY. IF SO CONVEY YOUR KIND ACCEPTANCE IMMEDIATELY. YOU SHOULD ALSO FURNISHME WITH YOUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBER(S) FOR EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION. I EXPECT TO HEAR FROM YOU IMMEDIATELY, AFTER WHICH YOU WILL BE COMPREHENSIVELY DETAILED ON THIS TRANSACTION. ONCE AGAIN LET ME REASSURES YOU THAT THIS TRANSACTION IS RISK FREE, AND THIS IS THE MOST AUSPICIOUS TIME TO EXECUTE. ALSO YOU CAN REACH ME THROUGH THIS E-MAIL ADDRESS: yusuf_ali@nnpc.zzn.com OR mr_yusuf5o@hotmail.com YOURS FAITHFULLY MR. YUSUF ALI From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jul 19 16:45:01 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09966 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:45:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([212.100.64.68]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6HCl7x07958 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:47:09 +0200 Message-Id: <200207171247.g6HCl7x07958@tug.org> From: "DR.BOLA AHMED " Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 14:46:51 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: REPLY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) No. 300 Bol Ahmed Way, LAGOS - NIGERIA STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL ATTN: President/ C.E.O I am the Chief Medical Doctor and close confidan of Mrs. Maryam Abacha, the former first lady and wife of the late Gen.Sani Abacha, the former head of state and commander in chief of the armed forces of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. S She (MRS. M. ABACHA), has as a result of the trust and confidence, she has in me mandated that I search for a reliable and trust worthy foreign partner, who will help receive some funds which she had in cash totaling US$35M (Thirty Five Million United States Dollars only) into a personal, company or any reliable foreign bank accounts within or outside your country. Since the death of her husband the present government has been saizing all the family properties as all their personal and family Bank accounts within and outside Nigeria have all been frozen by the Nigerian authorities. (I would refer you to the website of Weekly Tell magazine: WWW. TELLMAGAZINE.com of November 23, 1998 page 25,and another edition of TELL WEEKLY MAGAZINE of October 11 1999, Page 10 captioned the tyrants son, for further information About this money and the ABACHAS) This money in question has however, been clearly moved in defaced form and Deposited with a security company that has branches in Asia, Africa, Europe and various parts of America. It may also interest you to note that she (MRS. ABACHA) and her family have, Since then inception of the present democratic government, been placed Under partial house arrest, with their international traveling passports seized.Thus we seek your assistance to help clear the money from the security company into your account, she has promised to give you 30% of the total sum. Note that this transaction involves no risks what so ever, as you will have no dealing with my country, Nigeria. Rather you will deal directly with the Security Company, which is based where the money is right now. Let me have your confidential Tel/Fax numbers in your response to this proposal. I shall let you into a complete detailed picture of this mutual beneficial transaction when I have received your anticipated positive reply. Reply to this e-mail address: drbol_ahmed@asorock.com or give me a call: 234-80-23325603 This matter should be treated as urgent and Confidential!) Regards, DR.BOLA AHMED drbol_ahmed@asorock.com From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jul 19 16:45:04 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09975 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailcity.com (fes.mail.lycos.com [209.185.123.154]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6GGbfx02277 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:37:41 +0200 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailcity.com; Tue Jul 16 09:37:21 2002 To: danobi@lycos.com Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 04:37:21 +1200 From: "Dan Obi" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sent-Mail: off Reply-To: danobi@lycos.com X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service X-Priority: 3 Subject: STRAIGHT FOR BUSINESS. X-Sender-Ip: 62.17.4.100 Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Language: en Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) DEAR SIR, IT IS WITH TRUST AND CONFIDENCE THAT I MAKE THIS URGENT AND IMPORTANT BUSINESS PROPOSAL TO YOU. I AM A SENIOR ACCOUNTANT WITH THE NIGERIAN NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION (NNPC) HERE IN LAGOS. I HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED BY MY COLLEAGUES TO SEEK FOR A FOREIGNPARTNER IN THE TRANSFER OF THE SUM OF US$8 MILLION(EIGHT MILLION LLARS) ONLY. THIS MONEY AROSE FROM A DELIBERATE ACT OF OVER INVOICING OF A PARTICULAR CONTRACT AWARDED BY MY CORPORATION IN 1997 AND IT WAS SECURED UNDER CONTRACT NUMBER: FGN/NNPC/022996/CB/97. WE HAVE BEEN SAFE GUARDING THIS MONEY SINCE THEN, AWAITING AN OPRIATE TIME WHEN THE MONEY CANBE TRANSFERRED INTO A SAFE FOREIGN ACCOUNT FOR SAFE KEEPING DPENDING OUR ARRIVAL FOR THE SHARING AND UTILIZATION WITH THEOWNER OF THE ACCOUNT. NOW, THE NEW CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT HAS ORDERED THAT ALL DEBT OWED TO FOREIGN CONTRACTORS BY THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE PAID IMMEDIATELY. ON THE STRENGTH OF THIS ORDER, WE WISH TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT TO PRESENT YOU OR YOUR COMPANY AS ONE OF THE CONTRACTORS BEING OWED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF NIGERIA. MEANWHILE, WE HAVE AGREED THAT THE MONEY WILL BE SHARED THUS, 60% WILL BE FOR MY COLLEAGUES AND I, 30% WILL BE FOR YOU FOR PROVIDING THE NECESSARY ASSISTANCE WHILE THE REMAINING 10% HAVE BEEN SET ASIDE FOR INCIDENTAL EXPENSES THAT MIGHT BE INCURRED DURING THE TRANSACTION. NOTE, THAT THE NATURE OF YOUR COMPANYS BUSINESS IS IRRELEVANT TO THIS TRANSACTION AS ALL ARRANGEMENTS HAVE BEEN CONCLUDED FOR A SUCCESSFUL AND HITCH FREE TRANSACTION. NOTE THAT THIS MONEY IS STILL IN SUSPENSE ACCOUNT OF MY CORPORATION (NNPC) WITH CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA.YOU ARE REQUIRED TO EMAIL THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION TO US IMMEDIATELY. 1. YOUR PHONE AND FAX NUMBERS. 2. NAME AND ADDRESS OF YOUR BANK, PHONE ANDFAX NUMBERS OF THE BANK. 3. YOUR ACCOUNT NUMBER. WE HAVE TAKEN MEASURES TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE NO RISK INVOLVED ON BOTH PARTIES. WE HAVE ESTIMATED THAT THIS TRANSACTION WILL BE CONCLUDED WITHIN 14 WORKING DAYS ON RECEIPT OF YOUR ACCEPTANCE LETTER TO THIS PROPOSAL BY EMAIL . I AM EXPECTING YOUR URGENT AND FAVOURABLE RESPONSE. SINCERELY, MR.DAN OBI _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jul 19 16:45:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09998 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from exsrv.cccglobal.com (ip57.cccglobal.com [209.234.70.57] (may be forged)) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6F7Zxx23133 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:36:00 +0200 Received: by exsrv.cccglobal.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <31ML79XJ>; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:36:46 -0500 Message-ID: From: NAV for Microsoft Exchange-EXSRV To: "'tex-fonts'" Subject: Norton AntiVirus detected a virus in a message you sent. The inf ected attachment was deleted. Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 02:36:37 -0500 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C22BD2.5A4B5C50" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C22BD2.5A4B5C50 Content-Type: text/plain Recipient of the infected attachment: Administrator\Deleted Items Subject of the message: Cellspacing One or more attachments were deleted Attachment height.pif was Deleted for the following reasons: Virus UNAUTHORIZED FILE was found. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C22BD2.5A4B5C50 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii8HAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQWAAwAOAAAA0gcHAA8AAgAkACUAAQA7AQEggAMADgAAANIHBwAP AAIAJAAtAAEAQwEBCYABACEAAABDRUE4RDgzNEVCNzU2NzQ1QTczQTM1NjgxM0RFMDk4NwA0BwEE gAEAXwAAAE5vcnRvbiBBbnRpVmlydXMgZGV0ZWN0ZWQgYSB2aXJ1cyBpbiBhIG1lc3NhZ2UgeW91 IHNlbnQuICBUaGUgaW5mZWN0ZWQgYXR0YWNobWVudCB3YXMgZGVsZXRlZC4AHyIBDYAEAAIAAAAC AAIAAQOQBgDYBQAAIQAAAAIBCRABAAAAPgEAADoBAADAAQAATFpGdYMc/zuHAAoBDQNDdGV4dAH3 /wKkA+QF6wKDAFAC8wa0AoMmMgPFAgBjaArAc2XYdDAgBxMCgH0KgAjP/wnZAoAKhAs3EsIB0Afw BZAHBSAIkAIwIG9mIHRoaGUgC4BmBZAO8GRsIGECQADQaAeAAjA6MiAT4GRtC4AEAHRygxlwBbBc XERlbBOwdRlBSQ7wbRMwCrIKgFM4dWJqGREYZgeBc2GUZ2UaEUMbQGxzCrDJF/BuZxwFT24YwAWx 7wRgFUAZaQQgdwSQGMABAFsbUwqjChohGYcgGLBpMGdodC4YEBiAd2F/BCAbNgIQBcAYogIQHiBv OwPwHpAgFUAjUAIgczqHHAUaIBogVmlydQQgAFVOQVVUSE9SAElaRUQgRklMhkUjMwIQdW5kLhwF An0o8AAAAwD9P+QEAABAADkAUFxLWtIrwgEDAPE/CQQAAB4AMUABAAAADQAAAE5BVk1TRS1FWFNS VgAAAAADABpAAAAAAB4AMEABAAAADQAAAE5BVk1TRS1FWFNSVgAAAAADABlAAAAAAAIBcQABAAAA FgAAAAHCK9JaS8st+aaQHkAyl7Y6TCtTndYAAAMAJgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAAAeAHAAAQAAAF8AAABO b3J0b24gQW50aVZpcnVzIGRldGVjdGVkIGEgdmlydXMgaW4gYSBtZXNzYWdlIHlvdSBzZW50LiAg VGhlIGluZmVjdGVkIGF0dGFjaG1lbnQgd2FzIGRlbGV0ZWQuAAALAPIQAQAAAAIBRwABAAAAOAAA AGM9VVM7YT0gO3A9Q29tcHJlc3NvciBDb250cjtsPUVYU1JWLTAyMDcxNTA3MzYzN1otMTU3MzMA AgH5PwEAAABbAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC9PPUNPTVBSRVNTT1IgQ09O VFJPTFMvT1U9Q0NDRFNNL0NOPVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMvQ049TkFWTVNFLUVYU1JWAAAeAPg/AQAAACEA AABOQVYgZm9yIE1pY3Jvc29mdCBFeGNoYW5nZS1FWFNSVgAAAAAeADhAAQAAAA0AAABOQVZNU0Ut RVhTUlYAAAAAAgH7PwEAAABbAAAAAAAAANynQMjAQhAatLkIACsv4YIBAAAAAAAAAC9PPUNPTVBS RVNTT1IgQ09OVFJPTFMvT1U9Q0NDRFNNL0NOPVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMvQ049TkFWTVNFLUVYU1JWAAAe APo/AQAAACEAAABOQVYgZm9yIE1pY3Jvc29mdCBFeGNoYW5nZS1FWFNSVgAAAAAeADlAAQAAAA0A AABOQVZNU0UtRVhTUlYAAAAAQAAHMKzcQVrSK8IBQAAIMBqS517SK8IBHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAA AB4AHQ4BAAAAXwAAAE5vcnRvbiBBbnRpVmlydXMgZGV0ZWN0ZWQgYSB2aXJ1cyBpbiBhIG1lc3Nh Z2UgeW91IHNlbnQuICBUaGUgaW5mZWN0ZWQgYXR0YWNobWVudCB3YXMgZGVsZXRlZC4AAB4ANRAB AAAAPQAAADxERjBEQjRCNDhEQzRENDExQTJGMTAwMDEwMjVFRjI1QUM3QTBFNkBleHNydi5jY2Nn bG9iYWwuY29tPgAAAAALACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAGENNNJ2ADAAcQyQAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAR EAEAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABSRUNJUElFTlRPRlRIRUlORkVDVEVEQVRUQUNITUVOVDpBRE1JTklT VFJBVE9SREVMRVRFRElURU1TU1VCSkVDVE9GVEhFTUVTU0FHRTpDRUxMU1BBQ0lOR09ORU9STU9S RUFUAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAPQAAADxERjBEQjRCNDhEQzRENDExQTJGMTAwMDEwMjVFRjI1QUM3QTBF NkBleHNydi5jY2NnbG9iYWwuY29tPgAAAAApcg== ------_=_NextPart_000_01C22BD2.5A4B5C50-- From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jul 19 20:17:31 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10425 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:17:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LYCOS.COM (host-66-133-58-202.verestar.net [66.133.58.202]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6K2HIx25470 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 04:17:21 +0200 Message-Id: <200207200217.g6K2HIx25470@tug.org> From: "ENG. ROBER OBI" To: Subject: Mutual transaction Sender: "ENG. ROBER OBI" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 03:15:00 -0700 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) From: Engr. Robert Obi. Direct Phone 234 1 7760927. Direct fax: 234 1 7596323. Attn: Sir. Dear Sir, We are members of a special committee for budget and planning of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC). This committee is principally concerned with contract awards and approval. With Our positions, we have successfully secured for ourselves the sum of Twenty One Million, Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars (US$21.5M). This amount was carefully manipulated by over-invoicing of an old contract. Based on information gathered about you, we believe you would be in position to help us in transferring this fund (US$21.5M) into a safe account. It has been agreed that the owner of the account will be compensated with 20% of the remitted funds, while we keep 75%, and 5% will be set aside to offset expenses and pay the necessary taxes. All modalities of this transaction have been worked out and once started will not take more than 10 working days, with your full support. This transaction is 100% risk free. If this proposal satisfies you, please reach us ONLY by fax or phone, for more information. It might be difficult to get through to me because of poor telecommunication system here. Please keep trying you will definitely get through. Alternatively, email me on the above email address. Please treat as urgent and very confidential. Yours faithfully, Engr. Robert Obi. robert_obi@mail.com Direct Phone 234 1 7760927 Direct fax: 234 1 7596323. NB: For confidential reasons and due to the poor communication system in my country, most often foreign calls could be diverted to the wrong person. So for you to be very sure you are rightly speaking with me, it is very important that when you call and ask for me, the moment I pick up the phone, you should ask me for the "CODEWORD" and my answer would be "VICTORY before we proceed discussions, but if I do not say "VICTORY", that means you are speaking with me just DISCONNECT the line and call me back till I give you the code word. From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jul 19 20:47:19 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11119 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from afzhg143.com (host-66-133-58-202.verestar.net [66.133.58.202]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6K2l5x25566 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 04:47:08 +0200 Message-Id: <200207200247.g6K2l5x25566@tug.org> From: "Eng. Robert Obi" Reply-To: obirobert@eudoramail.com Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 03:44:48 -0700 Subject: Mutual Business Transaction X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Apparently-To: X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id UAA11120 From: Engr. Robert Obi. Direct Phone 234 1 7760927. Direct fax: 234 1 7596323. Attn: Sir. Dear Sir, We are members of a special committee for budget and planning of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC). This committee is principally concerned with contract awards and approval. With Our positions, we have successfully secured for ourselves the sum of Twenty One Million, Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars (US$21.5M). This amount was carefully manipulated by over-invoicing of an old contract. Based on information gathered about you, we believe you would be in position to help us in transferring this fund (US$21.5M) into a safe account. It has been agreed that the owner of the account will be compensated with 20% of the remitted funds, while we keep 75%, and 5% will be set aside to offset expenses and pay the necessary taxes. All modalities of this transaction have been worked out and once started will not take more than 10 working days, with your full support. This transaction is 100% risk free. If this proposal satisfies you, please reach us ONLY by fax or phone, for more information. It might be difficult to get through to me because of poor telecommunication system here. Please keep trying you will definitely get through. Alternatively, email me on the above email address. Please treat as urgent and very confidential. Yours faithfully, Engr. Robert Obi. Direct Phone 234 1 7760927 Direct fax: 234 1 7596323. NB: For confidential reasons and due to the poor communication system in my country, most often foreign calls could be diverted to the wrong person. So for you to be very sure you are rightly speaking with me, it is very important that when you call and ask for me, the moment I pick up the phone, you should ask me for the "CODEWORD" and my answer would be "VICTORY before we proceed discussions, but if I do not say "VICTORY", that means you are speaking with me just DISCONNECT the line and call me back till I give you the code word. From tex-fonts-errors Sat Jul 20 08:22:45 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mobi-mail2.mobitel.si (turboslav.mobitel.si [193.189.186.50]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA23206 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from no.name.available by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si via smtpd (for sunshine.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) with SMTP; 20 Jul 2002 14:24:03 UT Received: from mail pickup service by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:22:33 +0200 From: Antigen To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Antigen Notification:Antigen found FILE FILTER= *.bat file Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Jul 2002 14:22:33.0250 (UTC) FILETIME=[E359C020:01C22FF8] Date: 20 Jul 2002 16:22:33 +0200 Antigen for Exchange found jJH1-jmame[1].bat matching FILE FILTER= *.bat file filter. The file is currently Removed. The message, "A special funny website", was sent from ps and was discovered in SMTP Messages\Outbound located at MOBITEL.SI/MOBITEL0/MOBI-MAIL2. From tex-fonts-errors Sat Jul 20 08:39:09 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.20.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23416 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:39:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <3ZCGNHAG>; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:38:50 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:38:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = ps@pbumuti.o Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = A special funny website Scanning Time = 07/20/2002 09:38:48 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/323 Action on message: The attachment jJH1-jmame[1].bat matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\jJH1-jmame[1]3d3975f88f.bat_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 11:28:10 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08247 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NHUA103543 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:30:11 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D3D9215.FA019B89@atlis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:27:48 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: OpenType support (for TeX) References: <153100276339.20010301174057@trinity.warande.net> <953255921.20020304093832@ujf-grenoble.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know of any work on this? (beyond of course the rudimentary support pdfTeX already provides for .otfs w/ TrueType outlines) I'd really love to find a system like to that of TeX/GX for Macintosh QuickDraw/GX where system-installed fonts are automagically used and there's a method for querying the installed font(s) to get their feature-set. William From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 13:12:12 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10251 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2ive3hp.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.14.57] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17X54T-0004Uh-00; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:11:46 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723150217.027c66e0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:07:23 -0400 To: wadams@atlis.com, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) In-Reply-To: <3D3D9215.FA019B89@atlis.com> References: <153100276339.20010301174057@trinity.warande.net> <953255921.20020304093832@ujf-grenoble.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_531900161==_.ALT" --=====================_531900161==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 01:27 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, William Adams wrote: >Anyone know of any work on this? (beyond of course the rudimentary >support pdfTeX already provides for .otfs w/ TrueType outlines) OpenType is a compromise designed by an industrial consortium that has lost much of its original power by being dumbed down to were it typically is no more than a wrapper for either a Type 1 or a TrueType font. Plus, as discussed before, many of it's potentially more powerful features (such as glyph substitution and clever kerning) are of no use to TeX, actually are a problem for TeX, and are not needed by TeX, since TeX already does some of those things. >I'd really love to find a system like to that of TeX/GX for Macintosh >QuickDraw/GX where system-installed fonts are automagically used and >there's a method for querying the installed font(s) to get their feature-set. Such things have existed since about 1990 in BSR's Textures and Y&Y's TeX. And yes it really is great. But it is a constant struggle dealing with the rest of the TeX world that works a different way. Regards, Berthold. >William -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_531900161==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 01:27 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, William Adams wrote:

Anyone know of any work on this? (beyond of course the rudimentary
support pdfTeX already provides for .otfs w/ TrueType outlines)

OpenType is a compromise designed by an industrial consortium
that has lost much of its original power by being dumbed down
to were it typically is no more than a wrapper for either a Type 1
or a TrueType font. 

Plus, as discussed before, many of it's potentially more
powerful features (such as glyph substitution and clever kerning)
are of no use to TeX, actually are a problem for TeX, and are not
needed by TeX, since TeX already does some of those things.

I'd really love to find a system like to that of TeX/GX for Macintosh
QuickDraw/GX where system-installed fonts are automagically used and
there's a method for querying the installed font(s) to get their feature-set.

Such things have existed since about 1990 in BSR's Textures and
Y&Y's TeX.   And yes it really is great.  But it is a constant struggle
dealing with the rest of the TeX world that works a different way.

Regards, Berthold.

William

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_531900161==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 13:41:58 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10770 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 13:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mv (24-90-215-226.nyc.rr.com [24.90.215.226]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6NJhekm001346; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020723193937.01ca7448@pop.panix.com> X-Sender: mv@pop.panix.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:39:37 -0400 To: wadams@atlis.com From: "MicroPress Inc." Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu At 01:27 PM 7/23/02 -0400, you wrote: >Anyone know of any work on this? (beyond of course the rudimentary >support pdfTeX already provides for .otfs w/ TrueType outlines) VTeX (www.micropress-inc.com) also supports (usually much better) Type1-based .otf's. > >I'd really love to find a system like to that of TeX/GX for Macintosh >QuickDraw/GX where system-installed fonts are automagically used and >there's a method for querying the installed font(s) to get their feature-set. Most of such features would not be very compatible with TeX; and it is far >From clear if TeX would benifit from such extensions. > >William > > --------------------------------------------- Michael Vulis MicroPress mailto://support@micropress-inc.com http://www.micropress-inc.com From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 14:20:49 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11498 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:20:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NKN4104794 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:23:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D3DBA9D.68E1DA8F@atlis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:20:43 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) References: <153100276339.20010301174057@trinity.warande.net> <953255921.20020304093832@ujf-grenoble.fr> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723150217.027c66e0@mail.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Berthold said: >OpenType is a compromise designed by an industrial consortium >that has lost much of its original power by being dumbed down >to were it typically is no more than a wrapper for either a Type 1 >or a TrueType font. Right, but for TeX that makes the problem easier, no? >Plus, as discussed before, many of it's potentially more >powerful features (such as glyph substitution and clever kerning) >are of no use to TeX, actually are a problem for TeX, and are not >needed by TeX, since TeX already does some of those things. But not with OpenType fonts :( TeX/GX had a nice compromise on this front (and though I'm loathe to give up the flexibility of virtual fonts, it would be nice to just drag-drop Adobe Garamond Pro and have it ``just work'') (re: TeX/GX's systemic font installation) >Such things have existed since about 1990 in BSR's Textures and >Y&Y's TeX. And yes it really is great. But it is a constant struggle >dealing with the rest of the TeX world that works a different way. Right, but this then limits one to Windows or Mac OS <9 (I really wish BSR would Carbonize Textures). It's also kind of disingenuous to bring them up since neither automagically handles rich fonts like to OpenType AIUI. Michael Vulis then said: (re: pdfTeX supporting TrueType-based .otfs) >VTeX (www.micropress-inc.com) >also supports (usually much better) Type1-based .otf's. Interesting (sure wish I could find a copy of OS/2 for Pens for my Fujitsu pen slate). But at: http://www.micropress-inc.com/texdocs/index.html there're no details on the nature of your support of OpenType---am I missing where to look this up? While I appreciate, and don't mind the commercial implementations stepping forward, naturally the thrust of my query was toward some sort of generally available / open implementation (has TUG considered funding such?). ::mental note:: order a copy of _TeX: The Program_.... William From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 14:49:08 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11871 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:49:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 200.168.126.79 (200-168-126-79.dsl.telesp.net.br [200.168.126.79]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6NKmgx28618 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 22:48:44 +0200 Message-Id: <200207232048.g6NKmgx28618@tug.org> Received: from [198.250.227.71] by m10.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; Jul, 23 2002 21:41:16 -0300 Received: from ssymail.ssy.co.kr ([113.236.31.212]) by a231242.upc-a.chello.nl with local; Jul, 23 2002 20:27:16 +1200 Received: from unknown (HELO da001d2020.lax-ca.osd.concentric.net) (194.29.209.49) by f64.law4.hotmail.com with QMQP; Jul, 23 2002 19:33:23 -0200 From: UK Prank Calls To: tex-fonts@tug.org Cc: Subject: Hilarious Prank Call Service Sender: UK Prank Calls Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:48:47 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) X-Priority: 1 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Please visit http://ukprankcalls.com to play a hilarious joke on your mates! From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 15:00:59 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.228]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12077 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:00:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mv (24-90-215-226.nyc.rr.com [24.90.215.226]) by nycsmtp3out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6NL2jkm000076; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> X-Sender: mv@pop.panix.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:58:30 -0400 To: wadams@atlis.com From: "MicroPress Inc." Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu At 04:20 PM 7/23/02 -0400, William wrote: >them up since neither automagically handles rich fonts like to OpenType AIUI. > >Michael Vulis then said: >(re: pdfTeX supporting TrueType-based .otfs) >>VTeX (www.micropress-inc.com) >>also supports (usually much better) Type1-based .otf's. > >Interesting (sure wish I could find a copy of OS/2 for Pens for my >Fujitsu pen slate). > >But at: >http://www.micropress-inc.com/texdocs/index.html > >there're no details on the nature of your support of OpenType---am I >missing where to look this up? Some of the Web pages are behind; I'll make sure that the OpenType section is added. Basically, OpenType is supported by the VTeX compiler (BOTH in the commercial and the free versions); the Windows version visual font configuration tool (which manages/makes TeX support files also handles OpenType. The support in the compiler is totally transparent; as long as the configuration lists a font as OpenType, it is handled. > >While I appreciate, and don't mind the commercial implementations >stepping forward, naturally the thrust of my query was toward some sort >of generally available / open implementation (has TUG considered funding >such?). > >::mental note:: order a copy of _TeX: The Program_.... > >William > > --------------------------------------------- Michael Vulis MicroPress mailto://support@micropress-inc.com http://www.micropress-inc.com From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 15:13:38 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12226 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:13:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NLFq105080 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:15:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D3DC6FD.6419B40A@atlis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:13:31 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Vullis said: >Basically, OpenType is supported by the VTeX compiler (BOTH in the commercial >and the free versions); the Windows version visual font configuration tool >(which >manages/makes TeX support files also handles OpenType. >The support in the compiler is totally transparent; as long as the configuration >lists a font as OpenType, it is handled. But handled how much? are contextual ligature replacements made? Does your system encompass Unicode encodings and access to such slots in an OpenType font? William From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 15:28:22 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12451 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2ive3mi.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.14.210] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17X7CY-0006ZL-00; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 14:28:14 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:27:01 -0400 To: wadams@atlis.com, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) In-Reply-To: <3D3DC6FD.6419B40A@atlis.com> References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_540087384==_.ALT" --=====================_540087384==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:13 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, William Adams wrote: >But handled how much? are contextual ligature replacements made? I guess you didn't read what I wrote. And it has been written many times before. You can probably do a search on this group or comp.text.tex TeX does all of this sort of thing, and in return, it cannot tolerate this happening "under the hood". It requires TFM metric files that it can believe in. TeX cannot work properly when things can change while it isn't looking. This means that some of the nfity things about OpenType fonts are not only not useful for TeX users, but actually get in the way. Somehow it doesn't matter too much though since many OpenType fonts are just wrappers for T1 or TT fonts with none of the hairy stuff added. >Does your system encompass Unicode encodings and access to such slots in >an OpenType font? Unicode is a separate issue from OpenType. TeX is inherently limited to 8-bit bytes in a rather serious way. The exception is Omega --- which you are welcome to try. (This is not to say that implementations may not internally use Unicode --- it is just not accessible in the TeX source code). Regards, Berthold. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_540087384==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 05:13 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, William Adams wrote:

But handled how much? are contextual ligature replacements made?

I guess you didn't read what I wrote. And it has been written many times before.
You can probably do a search on this group or comp.text.tex

TeX does all of this sort of thing, and in return, it cannot tolerate this
happening "under the hood". It requires TFM metric files that it can
believe in. TeX cannot work properly when things can change while
it isn't looking.

This means that some of the nfity things about OpenType fonts are
not only not useful for TeX users, but actually get in the way.  Somehow
it doesn't matter too much though since many OpenType fonts are just
wrappers for T1 or TT fonts with none of the hairy stuff added.

Does your system encompass Unicode encodings and access to such slots in
an OpenType font?

Unicode is a separate issue from OpenType.
TeX is inherently limited to 8-bit bytes in a rather serious way.
The exception is Omega --- which you are welcome to try.
(This is not to say that implementations may not internally use
Unicode --- it is just not accessible in the TeX source code).

Regards, Berthold.

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_540087384==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 15:45:36 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com [24.29.99.227]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12709 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:45:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mv (24-90-215-226.nyc.rr.com [24.90.215.226]) by nycsmtp2out.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.12.1/Road Runner SMTP Server 1.0) with SMTP id g6NLi339014640; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.20020723214259.00eae460@pop.panix.com> X-Sender: mv@pop.panix.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:42:59 -0400 To: wadams@atlis.com From: "MicroPress Inc." Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu At 05:13 PM 7/23/02 -0400, you wrote: >Michael Vullis said: >>Basically, OpenType is supported by the VTeX compiler (BOTH in the commercial >>and the free versions); the Windows version visual font configuration tool >>(which >>manages/makes TeX support files also handles OpenType. >>The support in the compiler is totally transparent; as long as the configuration >>lists a font as OpenType, it is handled. > >But handled how much? are contextual ligature replacements made? Handled the "TeX-way". It makes no sense to use the OpenType ligature mechanism when TeX does it quite well. > >Does your system encompass Unicode encodings and access to such slots in >an OpenType font? Some such Unicode support is present, where it makes sense (CID fonts, for example); but overall VTeX is TeX, not Omega, and for most available OpenType fonts it is actually not needed. There will be more said on this when we release V8 (soon). > >William > > --------------------------------------------- Michael Vulis MicroPress mailto://support@micropress-inc.com http://www.micropress-inc.com From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 15:49:16 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12765 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NLpU105241 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:51:30 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:49:10 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Berthold, this is somewhat added to from my private reply to you, but the substance is the same) Berthold said: >I guess you didn't read what I wrote. And it has been written many times before. >You can probably do a search on this group or comp.text.tex >TeX does all of this sort of thing, and in return, it cannot tolerate this >happening "under the hood". It requires TFM metric files that it can >believe in. TeX cannot work properly when things can change while >it isn't looking. I don't see why / how TeX could care about things changing after it's done looking at things. As I understand it in TeX/GX, when the page is shipped out, where each line would normally be written to the .dvi file, it's instead passed to the QuickDraw/GX Line Layout Manager which sets said characters to that width according to the rules in the font(s). Apparently this is an easy way to do this since TeX is so resistant to doing letterspacing which would interfere with substituting (for example) a ct ligature with a the ct characters. So rather than doing this ``under the hood'', one way to achieve this is by latching onto TeX's output and resetting it somewhat so as to use OpenType fonts according to OpenType rules---I don't see why this would be a difficult thing to ``bolt-on'' to pdfTeX, modulo the difficulty of parsing the OpenType font rules. I've read the bit in _Digital Typography_ about the difficulties of extending TeX to larger character sets, and've looked over Omega a couple of times, so I've some inkling of the technical difficulties involved in doing this directly in TeX. However, I'm working up towards a long-term personal project which will need something like to these capabilities, and so am investigating how to do this sort of thing in TeX, or something like to it (one alternative I'm looking at is CCS, a proprietary batch pagination system which my employer developed a while back), because I simply can't stand Adobe's ideas of user interface and can't justify purchasing a new / high-end Mac or Windows machine. William From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 15:52:34 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12815 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:52:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NLsm105257 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:54:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D3DD01E.F659CF6@atlis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:52:28 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) References: <2.2.32.20020723214259.00eae460@pop.panix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Vullis said: (re: VTeX's support of OpenType and contextual ligatures) >Handled the "TeX-way". It makes no sense to use the OpenType ligature >mechanism when TeX does it quite well. up to the limits of .tfm's 256 character limit. If one is interested in the idea of using fonts which have more ligatures than that, well, it makes sense to me. I then asked: >>Does your system encompass Unicode encodings and access to such slots in >>an OpenType font? >Some such Unicode support is present, where it makes sense (CID fonts, for >example); but overall VTeX is TeX, not Omega, and for most available OpenType >fonts it is actually not needed. >There will be more said on this when we release V8 (soon). Neat! I'll keep an eye out for it. William From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 16:08:23 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net [167.206.5.23]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13152 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:08:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wesley.springies.com (ool-182f7213.dyn.optonline.net [24.47.114.19]) by mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 (built Feb 21 2002)) with ESMTP id <0GZQ00LZ12KWJK@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ats by wesley.springies.com with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17X7lJ-0001zv-00 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:04:09 -0400 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:03:40 -0400 From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) In-reply-to: <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Message-id: <87eldugkzn.fsf@wesley.springies.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) Emacs/21.3.50 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Lines: 17 References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> William Adams writes: > I don't see why / how TeX could care about things changing after it's > done looking at things. It depends on which program you trust to do layout. If you are using TeX, it's probably because you believe it does a good job of layout. If things change after it's done looking at things, you are depending on the font/Quickdraw/whatever to do a better job of layout than TeX did. You are also hoping that it doesn't make things _worse_ because the fonts are designed to improve naive output and the layout TeX did confuses the font's algorithm. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! Shin - A device used for finding furniture in the dark From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 16:14:00 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13238 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2ive3mi.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.14.210] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17X7ul-0000mO-00; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:13:56 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723175905.00a97868@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:12:43 -0400 To: wadams@atlis.com, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) In-Reply-To: <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_542828025==_.ALT" --=====================_542828025==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:49 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, William Adams wrote: >Berthold said: > > >TeX does all of this sort of thing, and in return, it cannot tolerate this > >happening "under the hood". It requires TFM metric files that it can > >believe in. TeX cannot work properly when things can change while > >it isn't looking. > >I don't see why / how TeX could care about things changing after it's >done looking at things. Well, TeX typesets according to the metrics in the TFM. It takes care of kerning and ligature substitution (and quite complex ones are possible in TeX 3.0 and later). Now if the output/display/print system takes output from TeX and messes with it by, for example, combining characters and replacing them with ligatures, then the space taken on the line changes. You can compensate for this by adding letter spacing between letters, but of course this is undesirable. It may not be visible in benign cases, but is just the wrong thing to do. TeX should be in complete control of layout. Plus what it the point? TeX already does kerning and ligatures. In fact, if TeX knows about the ligatures in the font (as it should from the TFM) file it will already have made the replacements and no new ones will be triggered in the font. So then it "just works" but clearly there is then no benefit to OpenType, the OT font is used by TeX just like any other font. And if you are looking for Unicode as the justification for using OpenType keep in mind that you can use Type 1 and TrueType fonts with large character sets just as well (from applications other than TeX). There is no advantage to OT here. In some TeX systems you can access arbitrary characters in a font by reencoding it using an encoding vector you design. But you are still limited to 256 per font in TeX. It's just you can choose which 256 glyph "window" into the font you want to see. To conveniently get more you need a 16-bit version of TeX such as Omega. >As I understand it in TeX/GX, when the page is shipped out, where each >line would >normally be written to the .dvi file, it's instead passed to the >QuickDraw/GX Line Layout Manager which sets said characters to that >width according to the rules in the font(s). Well, yes, but those widths are the same as those in the TFM file (or should be). So no change should occur at this stage. >Apparently this is an easy way >to do this since TeX is so resistant to doing letterspacing which would >interfere with substituting (for example) a ct ligature with a the ct >characters. I doubt it actually works as described. I bet it simply puts them down on the line exactly as TeX dictates. If it didn't, it shouldn't be called TeX! >I've read the bit in _Digital Typography_ about the difficulties of >extending TeX to larger character sets, and've looked over Omega a >couple of times, so I've some inkling of the technical difficulties >involved in doing this directly in TeX. However, I'm working up towards >a long-term personal project >which will need something like to these capabilities, and so am >investigating how to do this sort of thing in TeX, or something like to >it (one alternative I'm looking at is CCS, a proprietary batch >pagination system which my employer developed a while back), because I >simply can't stand Adobe's ideas of user interface Could you explain this a bit more? Do you mean Adobe typesetting software? Or ATM? Or Acrobat? Or the way fonts work in Windows and on the Mac? >and can't justify >purchasing a new / high-end Mac or Windows machine. You don't normally need a hi-end machine for TeX, since most implementations can typeset the multi-hundred page TeX book an a very small number of seconds. Also, a "hi end" windows machine costs *very* little these days. Certainly your employer could justify it. It would cost a lot less than a few hours on tex-fonts :-) Regards, Berthold. >William -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_542828025==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 05:49 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, William Adams wrote:

Berthold said:

>TeX does all of this sort of thing, and in return, it cannot tolerate this
>happening "under the hood". It requires TFM metric files that it can
>believe in. TeX cannot work properly when things can change while
>it isn't looking.

I don't see why / how TeX could care about things changing after it's
done looking at things.

Well, TeX typesets according to the metrics in the TFM. It takes
care of kerning and ligature substitution (and quite complex ones
are possible in TeX 3.0 and later).

Now if the output/display/print system takes output from TeX and messes
with it by, for example, combining characters and replacing them with
ligatures, then the space taken on the line changes.  You can compensate
for this by adding letter spacing between letters, but of course this
is undesirable.  It may not be visible in benign cases, but is just the
wrong thing to do.  TeX should be in complete control of layout.

Plus what it the point? TeX already does kerning and ligatures.
In fact, if TeX knows about the ligatures in the font (as it should from
the TFM) file it will already have made the replacements and no new
ones will be triggered in the font. So then it "just works" but clearly
there is then no benefit to OpenType, the OT font is used by TeX just like
any other font.

And if you are looking for Unicode as the justification for using OpenType
keep in mind that you can use Type 1 and TrueType fonts with
large character sets just as well (from applications other than TeX). 
There is no advantage to OT here. 

In some TeX systems you can access
arbitrary characters in a font by reencoding it using an encoding vector
you design.  But you are still limited to 256 per font in TeX.
It's just you can choose which 256 glyph "window" into the font
you want to see.  To conveniently get more you need a 16-bit version
of TeX such as Omega.

As I understand it in TeX/GX, when the page is shipped out, where each
line would
normally be written to the .dvi file, it's instead passed to the
QuickDraw/GX Line Layout Manager which sets said characters to that
width according to the rules in the font(s).

Well, yes, but those widths are the same as those in the TFM file
(or should be). So no change should occur at this stage.

Apparently this is an easy way
to do this since TeX is so resistant to doing letterspacing which would
interfere with substituting (for example) a ct ligature with a the ct characters.

I doubt it actually works as described.  I bet it simply puts them down
on the line exactly as TeX dictates.  If it didn't, it shouldn't be called TeX!

I've read the bit in _Digital Typography_ about the difficulties of
extending TeX to larger character sets, and've looked over Omega a
couple of times, so I've some inkling of the technical difficulties
involved in doing this directly in TeX. However, I'm working up towards
a long-term personal project
which will need something like to these capabilities, and so am
investigating how to do this sort of thing in TeX, or something like to
it (one alternative I'm looking at is CCS, a proprietary batch
pagination system which my employer developed a while back), because I
simply can't stand Adobe's ideas of user interface

Could you explain this a bit more?  Do you mean Adobe typesetting software?
Or ATM? Or Acrobat? Or the way fonts work in Windows and on the Mac?

and can't justify
purchasing a new / high-end Mac or Windows machine.

You don't normally need a hi-end machine for TeX, since most
implementations can typeset the multi-hundred page TeX book
an a very small number of seconds.  Also, a "hi end" windows
machine costs *very* little these days. Certainly your employer
could justify it. It would cost a lot less than a few hours on tex-fonts :-)

Regards, Berthold.

William

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_542828025==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 16:32:36 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13500 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NMYo105402 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:34:50 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D3DD97F.D4535E0@atlis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:32:30 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723175905.00a97868@mail.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd said: >> As I understand it in TeX/GX, when the page is shipped out, where each >> line would >> normally be written to the .dvi file, it's instead passed to the >> QuickDraw/GX Line Layout Manager which sets said characters to that >> width according to the rules in the font(s). and Berthold replied: >Well, yes, but those widths are the same as those in the TFM file >(or should be). So no change should occur at this stage. By ``width'' I meant over-all width of the line. Changes most certainly _should_ happen _according to the rules in the fonts_, so if there's e.g., a ct ligature in the OpenType font (but of which TeX is unaware 'cause the encoding slot it would've used was too precious and needed something else) that would get subbed in for a ct pair---naturally this scheme is helped by the ligature and its matching character pair having the same width, but the GX Line Layout Manager should be able, at need to shift words as needed (and keep even wordspacing). >I doubt it actually works as described. My experimentation leads me to believe it does work as described---TeX/GX is linked to from www.tug.org, so if you can scare up a Mac which'll run System 7.5.1--7.6.1 you can play with it yourself. Imagine instead a successor to dvips which takes a dvi file and the attendant virtual fonts and some hypothetical other mapping file and re-works the dvi file to conform to the applied OpenType fonts' norms of layout. >I bet it simply puts them down >on the line exactly as TeX dictates. If it didn't, it shouldn't be called TeX! Should pdfTeX not be called TeX because Hanh added margin kerning and character expansion as an option? (I'm trying to set up a powerful, open typesetting system for a personal project and) >>I simply can't stand Adobe's ideas of user interface >Could you explain this a bit more? Do you mean Adobe typesetting software? >Or ATM? Or Acrobat? Or the way fonts work in Windows and on the Mac? I mean User Interface like Illustrator's over-wrought tool palette with not one, not two, not three, but _nine_ different tool icons for selecting objects and working with points. By way of contrast, FH8 has _two_ (and I've complained bitterly to Macromedia of their adding a third a la Illustrator) >> and can't justify >> purchasing a new / high-end Mac or Windows machine. >You don't normally need a hi-end machine for TeX, That's why I'm looking at TeX and its derivatives. It runs quite nicely on my Fujitsu pen slate. >Also, a "hi end" windows >machine costs *very* little these days. Certainly your employer >could justify it. It would cost a lot less than a few hours on tex-fonts :-) I'm not inclined to displace my NeXT Cube from my desk with a Windows desktop high-end or no, and this is a personal project, so my employer wouldn't be funding it. I have two Windows laptops (a ThinkPad, and the afore-mentioned pen slate), so getting another portable wouldn't get approval from my significant other---I'm also not wild about ID's hardware requirements. William From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 16:39:47 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13616 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NMg1105440 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:42:01 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D3DDB2E.5A8F716E@atlis.com> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:39:41 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> <87eldugkzn.fsf@wesley.springies.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Shutko said: >If things change after it's done looking at things, you are depending >on the font/Quickdraw/whatever to do a better job of layout than TeX >did. You are also hoping that it doesn't make things _worse_ because >the fonts are designed to improve naive output and the layout TeX did >confuses the font's algorithm. I've just finished adding ct and st ligatures to Adobe Garamond at home. I believe I have two slots left in the italic font---one of these will go to an fj ligature I made a while back. That leaves the possibility of adding one additional alternative character / ligature beyond those already installed, which means the alternate Q with long tail can make it, but nothing after that---is that to be the full tally of quaint ligatures in TeX? I'm working on a typeface design which has all of those, plus ft, ll and a couple of others---I'd really like to be able to use them transparently in TeX without jettisoning accented characters &c. William From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 17:24:28 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14221 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2ive39b.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.13.43] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17X90z-0000jZ-00; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:24:25 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723191858.0281ae90@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:22:02 -0400 To: Alan Shutko , tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) In-Reply-To: <87eldugkzn.fsf@wesley.springies.com> References: <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_547058678==_.ALT" --=====================_547058678==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:03 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: >You are also hoping that it doesn't make things _worse_ because >the fonts are designed to improve naive output and the layout TeX did >confuses the font's algorithm. I think this is a key point. The much touted features of OpenType with respect to ligaturing etc. are of great benefit to naive programs (such as unmentionable stuff from certain well known major companies) that do not do any careful typography such as kerning and ligatures. It is of no benefit for TeX and it actually gets in the way. TeX needs to know the metrics of all glyphs it typesets in advance so it can do its clever paragraph line layout. It can't do the best job if afterwards some glyphs are replaced and the width of typeset material changes. Regards, Berthold. -- >Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! >Shin - A device used for finding furniture in the dark -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_547058678==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 06:03 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, Alan Shutko wrote:

You are also hoping that it doesn't make things _worse_ because
the fonts are designed to improve naive output and the layout TeX did
confuses the font's algorithm.

I think this is a key point. The much touted features of OpenType
with respect to ligaturing etc. are of great benefit to naive programs
(such as unmentionable stuff from certain well known major companies)
that do not do any careful typography such as kerning and ligatures.

It is of no benefit for TeX and it actually gets in the way. TeX needs to
know the metrics of all glyphs it typesets in advance so it can do its clever
paragraph line layout.  It can't do the best job if afterwards some
glyphs are replaced and the width of typeset material changes.

Regards, Berthold.
--
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - In a variety of flavors!
Shin - A device used for finding furniture in the dark

--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_547058678==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Tue Jul 23 17:31:20 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14303 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:31:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from user-2ive39b.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.13.43] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17X97B-00025H-00; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:30:50 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723192431.02848ed0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:29:37 -0400 To: wadams@atlis.com, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) In-Reply-To: <3D3DDB2E.5A8F716E@atlis.com> References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> <87eldugkzn.fsf@wesley.springies.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_547441979==_.ALT" --=====================_547441979==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 06:39 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, William Adams wrote: > >If things change after it's done looking at things, you are depending > >on the font/Quickdraw/whatever to do a better job of layout than TeX > >did. You are also hoping that it doesn't make things _worse_ because > >the fonts are designed to improve naive output and the layout TeX did > >confuses the font's algorithm. > >I've just finished adding ct and st ligatures to Adobe Garamond at home. >I believe I have two slots left in the italic font---one of these will >go to an fj ligature I made a while back. That leaves the possibility of >adding one additional alternative character / ligature beyond those >already installed, which means the alternate Q with long tail can make >it, but nothing after that---is that to be the full tally of quaint >ligatures in TeX? Well, there seem to be enough slots left in reasonable encodings for deal with quite a range of ligatures beyond fl, fi, ff, ffi, and ffl. I am not sure what the problem would be with adding ct, st, fj, ll etc. I am sure you can come up with some special case (such as Arabic) where you will run out with TeX limitation of 256, but for "normal" use, like Adobe Garamond, I see no reason. (Or are you somehow torturing yourself unnecessarily with Cork encoding?) >I'm working on a typeface design which has all of those, plus ft, ll and >a couple of others---I'd really like to be able to use them >transparently in TeX without jettisoning accented characters &c. Well, OT is not the solution, since you loose TeX's wonderful capabilities to typeset properly. If you *really* have more ligatures than can fit (and they aren't just a designers random doodling) then you just may have to look at Omega. >William -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_547441979==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 06:39 PM 7/23/2002 -0400, William Adams wrote:

>If things change after it's done looking at things, you are depending
>on the font/Quickdraw/whatever to do a better job of layout than TeX
>did.  You are also hoping that it doesn't make things _worse_ because
>the fonts are designed to improve naive output and the layout TeX did
>confuses the font's algorithm.

I've just finished adding ct and st ligatures to Adobe Garamond at home.
I believe I have two slots left in the italic font---one of these will
go to an fj ligature I made a while back. That leaves the possibility of
adding one additional alternative character / ligature beyond those
already installed, which means the alternate Q with long tail can make
it, but nothing after that---is that to be the full tally of quaint ligatures in TeX?

Well, there seem to be enough slots left in reasonable encodings
for deal with quite a range of ligatures beyond fl, fi, ff, ffi, and ffl.
I am not sure what the problem would be with adding ct, st, fj, ll etc.

I am sure you can come up with some special case
(such as Arabic) where you will run out with TeX limitation of 256,
but for "normal" use, like Adobe Garamond, I see no reason.
(Or are you somehow torturing yourself unnecessarily with
Cork encoding?)

I'm working on a typeface design which has all of those, plus ft, ll and
a couple of others---I'd really like to be able to use them
transparently in TeX without jettisoning accented characters &c.

Well, OT is not the solution, since you loose TeX's wonderful
capabilities to typeset properly.  If you *really* have more
ligatures than can fit (and they aren't just a designers random
doodling) then you just may have to look at Omega.


William

--
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zrvp From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jul 24 05:19:44 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.VR-Web.de (mail.vr-web.de [195.243.197.42]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA20923 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 05:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <200207241119.FAA20923@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Received: (qmail 2866 invoked by uid 101); 24 Jul 2002 11:19:41 -0000 Received: from pd902bccf.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (HELO localhost) (217.2.188.207) by svtrick2.entenhausen.vpn with SMTP; 24 Jul 2002 11:19:41 -0000 From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:19:40 +0200 (MSZ) Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 2.20.2380 for OS/2 Warp 4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:32:30 -0400, William Adams wrote: >the GX Line Layout Manager >should be able, at need to shift words as needed >(and keep even wodspacing). What about a \parbox, a framed box or underlined text? What about carefully positioned accents? What about multiple columns? What about math formulae? The exact placement of the letters as calculated by TeX must not be altered in the output process. -- Walter From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jul 24 09:00:48 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <1509-242@onlinehome.de> Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22919 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:00:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.227.126.160] (helo=mrelayng0.kundenserver.de) by moutng3.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #2) id 17XNd7-00056M-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:00:45 +0200 Received: from [163.32.144.189] (helo=orion.univie.ac.at) by mrelayng0.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #2) id 17XNd5-00079u-00; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:00:44 +0200 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by orion.univie.ac.at (8.11.6/8.11.6/SuSE Linux 0.5) with ESMTP id g6O6aAH09948; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:36:10 +0200 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:36:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20020724.083610.99467586.wl@gnu.org> To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: wadams@atlis.com, tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) From: Werner LEMBERG In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723175905.00a97868@mail.ai.mit.edu> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723175905.00a97868@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Mew version 3.0.55 on Emacs 21.3.50.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Plus what it the point? TeX already does kerning and ligatures. In > fact, if TeX knows about the ligatures in the font (as it should > from the TFM) file it will already have made the replacements and no > new ones will be triggered in the font. So then it "just works" but > clearly there is then no benefit to OpenType, the OT font is used by > TeX just like any other font. Some features of OpenType are nevertheless useful even for TeX, e.g. vertical representation forms for CJK glyphs or small caps substitutions. It is a fact of life that most fonts will come in the OpenType format today. Adobe no longer produces Type1 fonts, only OTFs; so TeX and Omega *must* support this format in the near future. For many languages the 256 character limit is bad, so I won't discuss this since Omega can do that better even if you don't use any other feature of Omega. What we need is a tool (or a suite of tools) which prepares OTF fonts for TeX, this is, extracting the various OpenType tables and converting them to something TeX can understand: . Glyph substitution data (in the GSUB table) should be represented as different fonts. . Kerning data realized as GPOS table should be converted to ordinary kerning. Some data is too sophisticated for TeX (which is a deficiency of TeX, not of OpenType) -- this should be converted into a set of Omega OTPs: . Contextual glyph substition and positioning. . Cursive connection data for languages like Urdu. . Horizontal and vertical kerning at the same time. Werner From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jul 24 10:51:16 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from moutvdomng2.kundenserver.de (moutvdom.kundenserver.de [195.20.224.149]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24172 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [195.20.224.220] (helo=mrvdomng1.kundenserver.de) by moutvdomng2.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #2) id 17XPM2-0001t6-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:51:14 +0200 Received: from [217.80.42.19] (helo=DOMINUS) by mrvdomng1.kundenserver.de with smtp (Exim 3.35 #2) id 17XPM2-00031M-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:51:14 +0200 Reply-To: From: "Ulrich Dirr" To: Subject: RE: OpenType support (for TeX) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 18:51:10 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <20020724.083610.99467586.wl@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA24173 > Some features of OpenType are nevertheless useful even for TeX, > e.g. vertical representation forms for CJK glyphs or small caps > substitutions. It is a fact of life that most fonts will come in > the OpenType format today. Adobe no longer produces Type1 fonts, > only OTFs; so TeX and Omega *must* support this format in the > near future. I agree. > For many languages the 256 character limit is bad, so I won't > discuss this since Omega can do that better even if you don't use > any other feature of Omega. What we need is a tool (or a suite of > tools) which prepares OTF fonts for TeX, this is, extracting the > various OpenType tables and converting them to something TeX can > understand: > > . Glyph substitution data (in the GSUB table) should be > represented as different fonts. > > . Kerning data realized as GPOS table should be converted to > ordinary kerning. > > Some data is too sophisticated for TeX (which is a deficiency of > TeX, not of OpenType) -- this should be converted into a set of > Omega OTPs: > > . Contextual glyph substition and positioning. > > . Cursive connection data for languages like Urdu. > > . Horizontal and vertical kerning at the same time. Yes. I also find it very useful to have the language feature tag ('language system tag'). Then you can have correct 'ch', 'ck', etc. ligatures when german is the current language but not in english where it's useless (and like the 'fi' in turkish, etc.pp.). Not to mention the 'hlig' feature tag. Ulrich Dirr From tex-fonts-errors Wed Jul 24 12:18:54 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25426 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:18:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from MAURITIUS.ai.mit.edu (maui [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.12.2/8.12.2/BASENAME(ai.master.life-8.12.2.mc,.mc):RCS_REVISION(evision: 1.23 ) with ESMTP id g6OIIVew009099; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020724141546.03356960@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:26:29 -0400 To: , From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: RE: OpenType support (for TeX) In-Reply-To: References: <20020724.083610.99467586.wl@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:51 2002-07-24 +0200, Ulrich Dirr wrote: >> Some features of OpenType are nevertheless useful even for TeX, >> e.g. vertical representation forms for CJK glyphs or small caps >> substitutions. It is a fact of life that most fonts will come in >> the OpenType format today. Adobe no longer produces Type1 fonts, >> only OTFs; so TeX and Omega *must* support this format in the >> near future. > >I agree. And some commercial systems do support OpenType (although not always in the same complete way as Type 1) -- *but* within the limitations of what TeX can do. That is, you can use any system-installed font (including Type 1, TrueType and OpenType) for screen display and printing, and you can write TFMs for these fonts for use by TeX. But as discussed, TeX is in charge of typesetting, and what clever things it can do it will do, and other things it will not, quite independent of what the font format is. So I think the question should not be "when will TeX support OT?" (which some implementation already do), but rather "how can we design a successor to TeX that includes support for the features of OpenType that TeX currently does not provide?" And in that case you may be better off looking at Omega rather than starting from scratch, or maybe Adobe OnDesign. >> For many languages the 256 character limit is bad, so I won't >> discuss this since Omega can do that better even if you don't use >> any other feature of Omega. What we need is a tool (or a suite of >> tools) which prepares OTF fonts for TeX, this is, extracting the >> various OpenType tables and converting them to something TeX can >> understand. As indicated above, AFMs and TFMs for OT fonts can be written by some commercial TeX systems. But not the hairy stuff you are looking for, since TeX does not provide support for them in metric files. >Yes. I also find it very useful to have the language feature tag ('language system tag'). Then you can have correct 'ch', 'ck', etc. ligatures when german is the current language but not in english where it's useless (and like the 'fi' in turkish, etc.pp.). Not to mention the 'hlig' feature tag. One rather painless way to do this presently is to have different file directories of TFM files for different purposes. To switch "system language" you switch a single variable that tells TeX where the tree of directories is. Some systems already do this for convenient and easy switching between font encodings (which require different TFMs). Regards, Berthold. Of course you are unlikely to see much development of any of these hairy features unless the demand for such features picks up. >Ulrich Dirr -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (MT) From tex-fonts-errors Thu Jul 25 03:53:01 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04474 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 65.163.209.241 (200-204-68-197.dsl.telesp.net.br [200.204.68.197]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6P9qrx10187 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:52:54 +0200 Message-Id: <200207250952.g6P9qrx10187@tug.org> Received: from 157.139.128.128 ([157.139.128.128]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net with asmtp; Jul, 25 2002 6:05:52 AM -0300 Received: from [110.188.46.152] by mta05bw.bigpond.com with QMQP; Jul, 25 2002 5:09:56 AM +1100 Received: from [176.244.234.14] by smtp-server6.tampabay.rr.com with local; Jul, 25 2002 4:07:03 AM +0700 From: tvylinux4oems To: Industrial.Linux.User@tug.org Cc: Subject: ISA Article on Embedded Real-Time Linux Automation Applications . qajqo Sender: tvylinux4oems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:10:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Industrial LINUX News: The June issue of the ISA's InTech Magazine has an interesting article on how truly open Linux applications can lower development cost and increase the performance and reliability of industrial automation. A copy of the the article can be found at: http://www.sixnet-io.com/html_files/web_articles/linux_article_info.htm This Linux news update brought to you by: www.Linux4oems.info ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you don't want to receive future Linux news updates, please reply to this e-mail with the subject "unsubscribe". You may also unsubscribe or resolve subscription difficulties by calling SIXNET at 518-877-5173 or e-mailing: linuxnews@sixnet-io.com . uugkiurapfcclmccryfw From tex-fonts-errors Thu Jul 25 05:25:24 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05160 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from inafricanmail.com (nld-dial-196-30-177-138.mweb.co.za [196.30.177.138]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6PBOix10664 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:24:48 +0200 Message-Id: <200207251124.g6PBOix10664@tug.org> From: "MRS REGINA NJOVA" To: Subject: URGENT ASSISTANCE Sender: "MRS REGINA NJOVA" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 13:18:27 +0200 Reply-To: "MRS REGINA NJOVA" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ATTN:MANAGING DIRECTOR/CEO Dear Sir/Madam BUSINESS NEGOTIATION With due respect and humility I write you this letter with the belief that you would be very much obliged to assist us. Since we have no place or person to turn to for assistance, I feel it is very necessary to bring to your notice, the problem we are going through,now,I am very optimistic that you owe a moral obligation to look into our plight and come to our rescue, thus my writing to you. I am MRS. REGINA NJOVA, the Wife of the late DR.FRANCIS NJOVA of the blessed memory. Prior to my husband's assasination by the Rebel forces loyal to Major John Paul Koromah, he was the Director General, National Gold and Diamond Mining Corporation in Sierra Leone. Two days before my husband was assasinated,he instructed me and my children (Mr. Justin and Evelyn Njova) to move out of Sierra Leone immediately before the powerful Ecowas Mobilization Group (ECOMOG) forces intervened which eventually resulted into a brutal civil war. I and my children managed to escape to Johannesburg the Republic of South AFrica by ship through the help of my husband's friend who is a trawler. We came to Johannesburg with some valuables including a cash sum of $16.5m(SIXTEEN MILLION FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS ONLY) in boxes which I deposited with a Security company here in Johannesburg , with my first son's name (Justin Sankoh). For your information, we did not disclose the real contents of the boxes to the Security Company and we do not wish them to know this under any circumstances.Rather, we deposited the boxes as containing family valuables. Meanwhile, I want to leave Johannesburg entirely with this money for investments in your country because of the unstable political situation in my country and mostly for the future of my children. I want you to please assist us in claiming these boxes from the Security Company, deposited the funds in a local account here in your name and order the Bank to transfer the funds to your country.You should also source for good investments opportunity so that we can invest wisely in your country when the fund is finally confirmed in your account. We have in mind to reward you handsomely for your assistance with at least 20% of the total sum. If there should be any incidental expenses on your side,an amount not exceeding 5%would be given to you an additional reward.Please as soon as I hear from you, I will forward my son's temporary telephone number in Johannesburg for you to speak with him immediately to enable us proceed in earnest towards retrieving the boxes and transferring of the funds into your account. There is no risk in this transaction since we are the bonafide owners of the valuables. Please ensure that no one else knows about this money;it is only myself, my son and you that knows about it. May God bless you as you assist us. Yours sincerely, MRS. REGINA NJOVA From tex-fonts-errors Thu Jul 25 10:41:56 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from abel.math.umu.se (abel.math.umu.se [130.239.20.139]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08559 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [195.100.229.64] (du64-229.ppp.mh-anst.tninet.se [195.100.229.64]) by abel.math.umu.se (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA15434; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:40:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Sender: lars@abel.math.umu.se Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3D3DDB2E.5A8F716E@atlis.com> References: <2.2.32.20020723205830.00e86fbc@pop.panix.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020723172138.02796848@mail.ai.mit.edu> <3D3DCF57.F31FF629@atlis.com> <87eldugkzn.fsf@wesley.springies.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:29:33 +0200 To: wadams@atlis.com From: Lars =?iso-8859-1?Q?Hellstr=F6m?= Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) Cc: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by sunshine.math.utah.edu id KAA08560 At 00.39 +0200 2002-07-24, William Adams wrote: >Alan Shutko said: >>If things change after it's done looking at things, you are depending >>on the font/Quickdraw/whatever to do a better job of layout than TeX >>did. You are also hoping that it doesn't make things _worse_ because >>the fonts are designed to improve naive output and the layout TeX did >>confuses the font's algorithm. > >I've just finished adding ct and st ligatures to Adobe Garamond at home. >I believe I have two slots left in the italic font---one of these will >go to an fj ligature I made a while back. That leaves the possibility of >adding one additional alternative character / ligature beyond those >already installed, which means the alternate Q with long tail can make >it, but nothing after that---is that to be the full tally of quaint >ligatures in TeX? > >I'm working on a typeface design which has all of those, plus ft, ll and >a couple of others---I'd really like to be able to use them >transparently in TeX without jettisoning accented characters &c. Then you might want to try the T1R encoding; see CTAN:macros/latex/contrib/supported/relenc. It lets you use up to 69 slots for ligatures, whereas all slots in a font that you don't need for a ligature can contain the same character as in T1. OTOH I must remark that I'm not as happy with the package now as I was when I wrote it---there is a dependency between the t1renc.def file and the relenc package which is definitely not kosher---but on the other hand you seem prepared to use many other things which aren't standard either. Lars Hellström From tex-fonts-errors Thu Jul 25 10:56:06 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08733 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([212.100.64.63]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6PGtNx12868 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:55:30 +0200 Message-Id: <200207251655.g6PGtNx12868@tug.org> From: "Eduado" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:06:29 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: MY INHERITANCE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Date:July 25,2002. Email:eduadomello@inbox.lv Dear Sir, I am Mr.Eduado de Mello, one of the Principal Commanders of the Union for the Total Independence of Angola,UNITA.Well needless telling a very long story here for our story is indeed interwoven with the history of the world and the liberation struggle in the Southern African region of the African continent. The bubble burst just about a couple of months ago when my supreme commander, the late Dr.Jonas Savimbi was killed in an encounter with the government forces of the MPLA government of my country.The rest is now history but suffice it to say that I am tired of the unfortunate ole of waging a war against my fatherland.I have therefore decided to pull out my troupes from the bush even if the other field commanders decide otherwise I am therefore poised to effect a new beginning in my life and I have decided to make South Africa my new home at least for the interim period until I am sufficiently sure that I would be welcome home whole heartedly by the MPLA government in Luanda the capital of Angola. Needles to say I was the single most important commander who was very close to the late supreme commander; Dr.Jonas Savimbi.Indeed because I am a brother to one of his wives,he confided in me a great deal. The result of such trust is my reason for contacting you. I was the commander whom he sent to deposit the sum of Thirty two million USD ($32million) with a security/finance company in South Africa.This was immediately after the events of September 11,2001 in the United States of America.Indeed it had become increasingly difficult to move large volumes of money around the world particularly for a liberation movement like UNITA hence the recourse to keeping the money with the security company in South Africa. I have decided to inherit this money which was taken out and deposited with the said security/finance company as cash in Hundred dollar denominations.The money is kept in my signature and would have been used in the purchase of arms and ammunition for the purposes of continuing the civil war in Angola. The supreme commander is dead and as already stated I have decided to quit the whole thing and this is without regard to the fact that other commanders may wish to continue ! I want to cooperate with you in my decision to inherit the $32million.I am still in the bush here but I have been able to establish contact with the company in South Africa to the effect that I would soon come to take possession of the money that I kept with them. Note also that I deposited the money as a foreign national who is the head of a Mining company in Angola (Never as a commander of UNITA). If you are able to cooperate with me over this am willing to give you 20% of the $32million.Please come back to me through email: eduadomello@inbox.lv The security/finance company is standing by to receive my instructions on this and I will link you up with them as soon as you are ready to take possession of the $32million. Finally you are to note that in you reply, you are to state your residential or company address and if possible send a copy of your international passport so as to assure me that my money is safe in your hands. Yours truly, Eduado de Mello From tex-fonts-errors Fri Jul 26 03:03:00 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20489 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 03:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([212.100.64.63]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6Q92rx17550 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:02:54 +0200 Message-Id: <200207260902.g6Q92rx17550@tug.org> From: "Eduado" Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:02:20 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: MY INHERITANCE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Date:July 26,2002. Email:demello@themail.com Dear Sir, I am Mr.Eduado de Mello, one of the Principal Commanders of the Union for the Total Independence of Angola,UNITA.Well needless telling a very long story here for our story is indeed interwoven with the history of the world and the liberation struggle in the Southern African region of the African continent. The bubble burst just about a couple of months ago when my supreme commander, the late Dr.Jonas Savimbi was killed in an encounter with the government forces of the MPLA government of my country.The rest is now history but suffice it to say that I am tired of the unfortunate role of waging a war against my fatherland.I have therefore decided to pull out my troupes from the bush even if the other field commanders decide otherwise I am therefore poised to effect a new beginning in my life and I have decided to make South Africa my new home at least for the interim period until I am sufficiently sure that I would be welcome home whole heartedly by the MPLA government in Luanda the capital of Angola. Needles to say I was the single most important commander who was very close to the late supreme commander; Dr.Jonas Savimbi.Indeed because I am a brother to one of his wives,he confided in me a great deal. The result of such trust is my reason for contacting you. I was the commander whom he sent to deposit the sum of Thirty two million USD ($32million) with a security/finance company in South Africa.This was immediately after the events of September 11,2001 in the United States of America.Indeed it had become increasingly difficult to move large volumes of money around the world particularly for a liberation movement like UNITA hence the recourse to keeping the money with the security company in South Africa. I have decided to inherit this money which was taken out and deposited with the said security/finance company as cash in Hundred dollar denominations.The money is kept in my signature and would have been used in the purchase of arms and ammunition for the purposes of continuing the civil war in Angola. The supreme commander is dead and as already stated I have decided to quit the whole thing and this is without regard to the fact that other commanders may wish to continue ! I want to cooperate with you in my decision to inherit the $32million.I am still in the bush here but I have been able to establish contact with the company in South Africa to the effect that I would soon come to take possession of the money that I kept with them. Note also that I deposited the money as a foreign national who is the head of a Mining company in Angola (Never as a commander of UNITA). If you are able to cooperate with me over this am willing to give you 20% of the $32million.Please come back to me through email: demello@themail.com The security/finance company is standing by to receive my instructions on this and I will link you up with them as soon as you are ready to take possession of the $32million. Finally you are to note that in you reply, you are to state your residential or company address and if possible send a copy of your international passport so as to assure me that my money is safe in your hands. Yours truly, Eduado de Mello From tex-fonts-errors Sun Jul 28 16:25:14 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20605 for ; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 16:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hotmail.com (oe9.pav0.hotmail.com [64.4.32.89]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6SMP5x06164 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 00:25:05 +0200 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:25:04 -0700 X-Originating-IP: [199.182.33.161] From: "Miriam C Gonzalez" To: Subject: I have a question Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 15:25:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MSN Explorer 7.02.0005.2201 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C2364A.F2C39920" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jul 2002 22:25:04.0490 (UTC) FILETIME=[9EF064A0:01C23685] X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C2364A.F2C39920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Where can I find the file Ms Mincho? ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C2364A.F2C39920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Where can I fi= nd the file Ms Mincho?

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C2364A.F2C39920-- From tex-fonts-errors Mon Jul 29 07:14:50 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27396 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 07:14:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6TDEjx10051 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:14:45 +0200 Received: from user-2ive3sl.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.15.149] helo=stkitts.ai.mit.edu) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17ZAME-0006UL-00; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 06:14:43 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020729090621.01dc7e40@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:13:02 -0400 To: "Miriam C Gonzalez" , From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: MS Mincho In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1028848325==_.ALT" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) --=====================_1028848325==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:25 PM 7/28/2002 -0500, Miriam C Gonzalez wrote: >Where can I find the file Ms Mincho? MS Mincho (a.k.a. HGPHeiseiMinchoW3) is a Japanese font that comes with some Microsoft products. See e.g. http://www.lexikan.com/mincho.htm Search also for MS Gothic You may not find it easily useable with TeX since it obviously contains more than 256 glyphs. It's also in TrueType form, which may be a handicap. Also, you may not like the style --- but then you get what you pay for :-) Berthold. -- Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_1028848325==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 03:25 PM 7/28/2002 -0500, Miriam C Gonzalez wrote:

Where can I find the file Ms Mincho?

MS Mincho (a.k.a. HGPHeiseiMinchoW3)
is a Japanese font that comes with
some Microsoft products.

See e.g. http://www.lexikan.com/mincho.htm

Search also for MS Gothic

You may not find it easily useable with TeX since
it obviously contains more than 256 glyphs.
It's also in TrueType form, which may be a handicap.

Also, you may not like the style ---
but then you get  what you pay for :-)

Berthold.


--
Berthold K.P. Horn mailto:bkph@ai.mit.edu http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/bkph (BK) --=====================_1028848325==_.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Mon Jul 29 09:19:50 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29925 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:19:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6TFM4Y02300 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:22:04 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D455D05.85FA0469@atlis.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:19:32 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts Subject: Re: OpenType support (for TeX) References: <200207241119.FAA20923@sunshine.math.utah.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter said: (re: TeX/GX shifting words slightly when contextually placing ligatures &c.) >What about a \parbox, a framed box or underlined text? boxing shouldn't be an issue, since it seems to only be necessary to shift things to even out word-spacing if a ligature replacement has altered a word's length---beginning / end of the line should stay the same (unless there's a boundary ligature which is being inserted). People who under-line deserve what they get. >What about carefully positioned accents? One of the advantages of QuickDraw/GX is that one encodes accents with their characters into a single glyph in the input stream. >What about multiple columns? See above. >What about math formulae? I'm unaware of any QuickDraw/GX fonts suitable for setting mathematics other than the Computer Modern variant bundled with TeX/GX I'm still digesting everything everyone else has said, and have learned a lot---really appreciate Lars' pointer to the relenc package. Will try to do a summary (hey! could be an article for Tugboat!) and post to this list, then maybe to comp.text.tex for wider discussion? William From tex-fonts-errors Mon Jul 29 10:04:11 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from A1.atlis.com (host5.atlis.com [216.181.97.5]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00699 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from atlis.com (host-216-153-178-55.choiceone.net [216.153.178.55]) by A1.atlis.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6TG6SY02625; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:06:29 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from wadams@atlis.com) Message-ID: <3D45676D.5F87C066@atlis.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:03:57 -0400 From: William Adams Reply-To: wadams@atlis.com Organization: ATLIS Graphics & Design X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lcs@math.u-psud.fr CC: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Re: OpenType in Bakoma References: <200207240539.g6O5d5204252@matups.math.u-psud.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've looked at playing w/ Bakoma TeX a couple of times---actually had it installed on my pen slate before a virus required reformatting everything. My big problem with its OpenType support would seem to be: >Any font type can be used for any output device/format. >This feature is supported by automatic font conversion >between font formats when needed. We really need (or maybe just, ``I want'') a direct/native solution (which is to say a successor to TeX) so that such conversion isn't necessary. >PS to William: I too use Macintosh a good deal. Could you give a >thumbnail sketch of the Macintosh application TeX/GX (unique features >URL etc.) ? It's linked to from www.tug.org last I checked---it's a TeX implementation for the Mac OS (System 7.5.1--7.6.1---it does _not_ work with the GX extension for Mac OS 8--8.6) which uses QuickDraw/GX and enables native use of QuickDraw/GX fonts (predecessor to OpenType w/ lots of nifty capabilities). Shareware from www.sil.org William From tex-fonts-errors Mon Jul 29 22:36:43 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12976 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:36:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp2.cp.tin.it (vsmtp2.tin.it [212.216.176.222]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6U4aax15313 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:36:36 +0200 Received: from PC1 (80.117.222.155) by smtp2.cp.tin.it (6.5.019) id 3D1887D4009D97C4 for tex-fonts@tug.org; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:36:35 +0200 Message-ID: <4110-22002723043632528@PC1> Organisation: CompExcell Italia From: "CompExcell" To: "tex-fonts@tug.org" Subject: + Recupero DATI + Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 06:36:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_94915C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pagina nueva 1

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Message-ID: <00003ceb2471$00002b0b$00003c1f@relay.algonet.se> To: From: "Service Center" Subject: Crystal Clear Conference Calls Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2002 03:44:51 -1900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express New Web Technology

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    From tex-fonts-errors Sat Aug 3 12:43:34 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24414 for ; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 12:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 3 Aug 2002 13:42:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 13:42:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = apostolos@lwol.com Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = A WinXP patch Scanning Time = 08/03/2002 13:42:41 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/331 Action on message: The attachment Patent.scr matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\Patent3d4c2421f.scr_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Mon Aug 5 18:33:05 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24787 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 18:33:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org (host-217-146-15-23.warsun.com [217.146.15.23] (may be forged)) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g760WOx08466 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 02:32:34 +0200 Message-Id: <200208060032.g760WOx08466@tug.org> From: "Dr. Usman Bello" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 05:07:25 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: BUSINESS ASSISTANCE. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) DR. USMAN BELLO. PH.D., FCA DIRECTOR: PROJECT IMPLEMENTATION NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM CORPORATION FALOMO OFFICE COMPLEX, IKOYI LAGOS. A REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE/COOPERATION. IT IS WITH GREAT PLEASURE IN WRITING YOU THIS LETTER ON BEHALF OF MY COLLEAGUES AND ME. YOUR PARTICULARS WERE GIVEN TO ME BY A MEMBER OF THE NIGERIAN EXPORT PROMOTION COUNCIL (NNPC) WHO WAS AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DELEGATION TO YOUR COUNTRY DURING A TRADE EXHIBITION. I HAVE DEICED TO SEEK CONFIDENTIAL COOPERATION WITH YOU IN THE EXECUTION OF THE DEAL DESCRIBED HERE FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL PARTIES INVOLVED AND HOPE THAT YOU WILL KEEP IT AS TOP SECRET BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS AND THE PERSONALITIES INVOLVED. WITHIN THE MINISTRY OF PETROLEUM RESOURCES WHERE I WORK, AS DIRECTOR,PROJECT IMPLEMENTATION AND WITH THE COOPERATION OF FOUR OTHER TOP OFFICIALS. WE HAVE IN OUR POSSESSION AS OVER-DUE PAYMENT BILLS TOTALING US$30.5M(THIRTY MILLION FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND UNITED STATES DOLLARS) WHICH WE WANT TO TRANSFER ABROAD WITH THE ASSISTANCE AND COOPERATION OF TRUSTED FOREIGN FIRM OR INDIVIDUAL THAT WILL RECEIVE THE SAID FUND ON OUR BEHALF INTO ANY ACCOUNT PROVIDED TO RECEIVE SUCH FUND. WE, PUBLIC SERVANTS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO OPERATE OFFSHORE ACCOUNT, HENCE YOUR IMPORTANCE IN THE WHOLE TRANSACTION. THE AMOUNT US $18.5M REPRESENTED SOME PERCENTAGE OF THE TOTAL CONTRACT VALUE EXECUTED ON BEHALF OF MY MINISTRY BY A FOREIGN CONTRACTING FIRM, WHICH WE THE OFFICIALS OVER-INVOICED DELIBERATELY. THOUGH THE ACTUAL CONTRACT COST HAVE BEEN PAID TO THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR, LEAVING THE BALANCE IN THE TUNE OF THE SAID AMOUNT WHICH WE HAVE GOTTEN APPROVAL TO REMIT BY TELEGRAPHIC TRANSFER (TT) TO FOREIGN BANK ACCOUNT. YOU WILL PROVIDE BY FILING IN AN APPLICATION THROUGH MY MINISTRY FOR THE TRANSFER OF RIGHT AND PRIVILEGES OF THE FORMER CONTRACTOR TO YOU SINCE THE PRESENT NEW CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT OF MY COUNTRY IS DETERMINED TO PAY EVERY FOREIGN CONTRACTOR ALL DEBIT OWED, SO AS TO MAINTAIN GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH FOREIGN GOVERNMENT AND NON-GOVERNMENT FINANCIAL AGENCIES. WE HAVE DECIDED TO INCLUDE OUR BILL FOR APPROVALS WITH THE COOPERATION OF SOME OFFICIALS FROM THE GOVERNMENT MINISTRY, WHICH WILL BE INVOLVED IN THE PAYMENT PROCESS. WE ARE SEEKING YOUR ASSISTANCE IN PROVIDING A VITAL ACCOUNT INTO WHICH WE CAN REMIT THIS MONEY BY ACTING AS OUR MAIN PARTNER AND TRUSTEE OR ACTING AS THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR. THIS, WE CAN DO BY SWAPPING OF ACCOUNT AND CHANGING OF BENEFICIARY AND OTHER FORM OF DOCUMENTATION UPON APPLICATION FOR CLAIM TO REFLECT THE PAYMENT AND APPROVALS TO BE SECURED ON BEHALF OF YOU. THIS TRANSACTION IS BEING AN UNDERSTANDING WITH THE PRINCIPAL TRUSTEE OF THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR AND WITH THE CONSENT OF THE ORIGINAL CONTRACTOR. I HAVE THE AUTHORITY OF MY PARTNERS INVOLVED TO PROPOSE THAT, SHOULD YOU BE WILLING TO ASSIST US IN THE TRANSACTION. YOUR SHARE OF THE FUND WILL BE 30% OF THE TOTAL SUM, 60% FOR US AND 10% FOR TAXATION AND MISCELLANEOUS EXPENSES. THIS BUSINESS IS 100% SAFE ON YOUR PART, BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL. YOUR AREA OF SPECIALIZATION IS NOT A HINDRANCE TO THE SUCCESSFUL EXECUTION OF THIS TRANSACTION. I HAVE REPOSED MY CONFIDENCE IN YOU AND HOPE THAT YOU WILL NOT ISAPPOINT ME. PLEASE FOR EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION, CONTACT ME ON MY EMAIL ADDRESS, AS YOU INDICATE YOUR WILLINGNESS IN ASSISTING US SO THAT I WILL DIRECT YOU WHAT NEXT TO DO. PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR DIRECT TEL/FAX NUMBER FOR SECURITY REASONS AND EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION. THANKS FOR YOUR ANTICIPATED ASSISTANCE. YOURS SINCERELY, DR. USMAN BELLO. PH.D., FCA (DIRECTOR-PROJECT IMPLEMENTATION NNPC). From tex-fonts-errors Mon Aug 5 19:23:15 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25346 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:23:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([216.139.170.13]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g761N2x08640 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 03:23:10 +0200 Message-Id: <200208060123.g761N2x08640@tug.org> From: "Suleman Abu" Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 02:22:23 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: STRAIN REQUEST FOR YOUR UNRESERVED ASSISTANCE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) MFROM: DR. Suleman Abu BANK MANAGER (UNION BANK OF NIGERIA PLC) ARINA LAGOS EMAIL;suleman_abu@lycos.com ATENTION PLAESE STRAIN REQUEST FOR YOUR UNRESERVED ASSISTANCE Firstly, I must solicit your confidence in this transaction, this is by virtue of its nature as being utterly confidential and top secret. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that all will be well at the end of the day.We have decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction, as we have been reliably informed of it's swiftness and confidentiality. Let me start by first introducing myself properly to you. I am DR. Suleman Abu a Manager at the Union Bank Nigeria PLC, Lagos. I came to know of you in my private search for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential transaction,which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign account requiring maximum confidence. A foreigner, Late Engineer William Adams, an oil Merchant /contractor with the federal Government of Nigeria, until his death three years ago in a ghastly air crash, banked with us here at the Union Bank PLC ,Lagos, and had a closing balance of USD$22.2M (Twenty-Two Million, Two Hundred Thousand United States Dollars) which the bank now unquestionably expects to be claimed by any of his available foreign next of kin or alternatively be donated to a discredited trust fund for arms and ammunition at a military war collage here in Nigeria. Fervent valuable efforts are being made by the Union Bank to get in touch with any of late Engr. William Adams's next of kin (he had no known wife and children) that the management under the influence of our chairman, board of directors, Retired Major General Kalu Uke Kalu, that an arrangement for the fund to be declared "UNCLIAMABLE " and then be subsequently donated to the trust fund for Arms and Ammunition, which will further enhance the course of war in Africa and the world in general. In order to avert this negative development, myself and some of my trusted colleagues in the bank now seek for your permission to have you stand as late Engr.WILLIAMS ADAMSs next of kin so that the fund, USD$22.2M, would be subsequently transferred and paid into your bank account as the beneficiary next of kin. All documents and proves to enable you get this fund have been carefully worked out and we are assuring you a 100% risk free involvement. Your share would be 30% of the total amount. 10% has been set aside for expenses, while the rest would be for myself and mycolleagues for purposes in your country. If this proposal is OK by you and you do not wish to take advantage of the trust we hope to bestow on you and your company, then kindly get to me immediately via my e-mail address furnishing me with your most confidential telephone, fax and e-mail, so that I can forward to you the relevant details of this ransaction. Thank you in advance for your anticipated co-operation. Regards. DR Suleman Abu From tex-fonts-errors Mon Aug 5 19:56:44 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25742 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 19:56:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([216.139.170.13]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g761swx08772 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 03:55:49 +0200 Message-Id: <200208060155.g761swx08772@tug.org> From: "Suleman Abu" Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 02:54:32 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: STRAIN REQUEST FOR YOUR UNRESERVED ASSISTANCE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) MFROM: DR. Suleman Abu BANK MANAGER (UNION BANK OF NIGERIA PLC) ARINA LAGOS EMAIL;suleman_abu@lycos.com ATENTION PLAESE STRAIN REQUEST FOR YOUR UNRESERVED ASSISTANCE Firstly, I must solicit your confidence in this transaction, this is by virtue of its nature as being utterly confidential and top secret. Though I know that a transaction of this magnitude will make any one apprehensive and worried, but I am assuring you that all will be well at the end of the day.We have decided to contact you due to the urgency of this transaction, as we have been reliably informed of it's swiftness and confidentiality. Let me start by first introducing myself properly to you. I am DR. Suleman Abu a Manager at the Union Bank Nigeria PLC, Lagos. I came to know of you in my private search for a reliable and reputable person to handle a very confidential transaction,which involves the transfer of a huge sum of money to a foreign account requiring maximum confidence. A foreigner, Late Engineer William Adams, an oil Merchant /contractor with the federal Government of Nigeria, until his death three years ago in a ghastly air crash, banked with us here at the Union Bank PLC ,Lagos, and had a closing balance of USD$22.2M (Twenty-Two Million, Two Hundred Thousand United States Dollars) which the bank now unquestionably expects to be claimed by any of his available foreign next of kin or alternatively be donated to a discredited trust fund for arms and ammunition at a military war collage here in Nigeria. Fervent valuable efforts are being made by the Union Bank to get in touch with any of late Engr. William Adams's next of kin (he had no known wife and children) that the management under the influence of our chairman, board of directors, Retired Major General Kalu Uke Kalu, that an arrangement for the fund to be declared "UNCLIAMABLE " and then be subsequently donated to the trust fund for Arms and Ammunition, which will further enhance the course of war in Africa and the world in general. In order to avert this negative development, myself and some of my trusted colleagues in the bank now seek for your permission to have you stand as late Engr.WILLIAMS ADAMSs next of kin so that the fund, USD$22.2M, would be subsequently transferred and paid into your bank account as the beneficiary next of kin. All documents and proves to enable you get this fund have been carefully worked out and we are assuring you a 100% risk free involvement. Your share would be 30% of the total amount. 10% has been set aside for expenses, while the rest would be for myself and mycolleagues for purposes in your country. If this proposal is OK by you and you do not wish to take advantage of the trust we hope to bestow on you and your company, then kindly get to me immediately via my e-mail address furnishing me with your most confidential telephone, fax and e-mail, so that I can forward to you the relevant details of this ransaction. Thank you in advance for your anticipated co-operation. Regards. DR Suleman Abu From tex-fonts-errors Mon Aug 5 20:11:24 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25929 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([64.86.155.135]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g762BIx09188 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 04:11:19 +0200 Message-Id: <200208060211.g762BIx09188@tug.org> From: "ENGR. GEORGE OMURA IGE" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 02:09:04 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ENGR. GEORGE ORUMA IGE Date: 5th August, 2002 Attn: CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER Sir, URGENT BUSINESS TRANSACTION I got your contact from the Library of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC), and somehow I feel that we can both handle this transaction in good fate to our overwhelming benefit. May I start by introducing myself, I am ENGR. GEORGE ORUMA IGE, the son of CHIEF BOLA IGE the former Minister for Mines and Power and presently the Minister for Justice and later shot dead on 23rd December, 2001. I work with National Electric Power Authority (NEPA) of Nigeria, I am presently the General Technical Manager and also Chairman of the Contract Award Committee of my parastatal. When my father was the Minister for Mines and Power he received a staggering amount of One Hundred twenty million United States Dollars only (US$120,000,000.00) >From the Presidency for the turn-around maintenance of all Hydro Energy Station and a few Sub-station in the country. He tactically hid away the sum of Thirty-five million United States Dollars (US$35,000,000.00) in a suspense account with the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN), this fund was clearly labelled “A Contractor’s Payment”. This he did before he moved to Ministry of Justice and later assacinated him. Now that my father safely in his new Ministry, he has given me a go ahead to get a reliable and reputable foreigner that will assist me in receiving the fund in his account as the original contractor that has to be paid. He said this is my inheritance from him and that he will have nothing to do with it, more so, now that we have a young democracy all eyes are on the office holders. One begins to wonder why I can not go aboard, open an account and have the money transferred there all by myself as this of course could have assured utmost confidentiality of the transaction. I can not, because I am Civil Servant and the laws of the Federal Republic of Nigeria forbids any serving Civil Servant maintaining foreign account(s). Secondly, I can not resign my appointment in order to handle this transaction as an independent businessman, because I can not monitor this transfer effectively from outside my office. Thirdly, the fund in question has been embarked “A Contractor’s Payment”, therefore, the supposed foreign contractor must be presented before the fund can be legally paid. Fourthly, my contacting you is born out of the fact that I need a foreign company/person with a strong capital base to hold this huge amount (US$35,000,000.00) in trust, otherwise eye brows could be raised if it is paid into a lesser account. In transferring this money into your account, it is my considered opinion that you get 30% of the total sum, 10% shall be set aside to take care of all expenses, and 60% shall be kept in your account till I come over to your country to invest it with your guidance. For a smooth sail of this transaction, a masterpiece plan has been put in place to the effect that the whole operation will take twenty-one working days to drive it to a successful or logical conclusion. (I mean to remit the fund into your nominated account ). A contract number from a contract that has been concluded and the contractor paid in full has been reasign to this fund, which means that we now have an authentic contract number to work with. Every paper/file in connection with this transaction shall be carefully withdrawn from all offices concerned, after the money must have been safely remitted into your account, thus leaving no trace of the fund. However, you should treat this business with utmost confidentiality, as I and my father do not want anything to jeopardise our position in the office. If you are interested in this transaction, I expect you to contact me through my E-mail address: to enable me instruct you on what to do as well as furnish you with further details. All I needed from you are the following:- YOUR BANK PARTICULARS THE NAME OF THE BANK AND ADDRESS THE ROUTING NUMBER AND SORT CODE THE TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBERS OF THE BANK THE ACCOUNT NUMBER YOUR COMPANY PHONE AND FAX AND YOUR PERSONAL PHONE AND FAX FOR EASY COMMUNICATION ALSO YOUR FULL ADDRESS TO REACH YOU. Awaiting to hear from you as soon as you finish reading the message. Yours faithfully, ENGR. GEORGE ORUMA IGE From tex-fonts-errors Mon Aug 5 20:11:42 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25933 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2002 20:11:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([64.86.155.135]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g762Bbx09191 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 04:11:37 +0200 Message-Id: <200208060211.g762Bbx09191@tug.org> From: "ENGR. GEORGE OMURA IGE" Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 02:09:24 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: URGENT BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ENGR. GEORGE ORUMA IGE Date: 5th August, 2002 Attn: CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER Sir, URGENT BUSINESS TRANSACTION I got your contact from the Library of the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC), and somehow I feel that we can both handle this transaction in good fate to our overwhelming benefit. May I start by introducing myself, I am ENGR. GEORGE ORUMA IGE, the son of CHIEF BOLA IGE the former Minister for Mines and Power and presently the Minister for Justice and later shot dead on 23rd December, 2001. I work with National Electric Power Authority (NEPA) of Nigeria, I am presently the General Technical Manager and also Chairman of the Contract Award Committee of my parastatal. When my father was the Minister for Mines and Power he received a staggering amount of One Hundred twenty million United States Dollars only (US$120,000,000.00) >From the Presidency for the turn-around maintenance of all Hydro Energy Station and a few Sub-station in the country. He tactically hid away the sum of Thirty-five million United States Dollars (US$35,000,000.00) in a suspense account with the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN), this fund was clearly labelled “A Contractor’s Payment”. This he did before he moved to Ministry of Justice and later assacinated him. Now that my father safely in his new Ministry, he has given me a go ahead to get a reliable and reputable foreigner that will assist me in receiving the fund in his account as the original contractor that has to be paid. He said this is my inheritance from him and that he will have nothing to do with it, more so, now that we have a young democracy all eyes are on the office holders. One begins to wonder why I can not go aboard, open an account and have the money transferred there all by myself as this of course could have assured utmost confidentiality of the transaction. I can not, because I am Civil Servant and the laws of the Federal Republic of Nigeria forbids any serving Civil Servant maintaining foreign account(s). Secondly, I can not resign my appointment in order to handle this transaction as an independent businessman, because I can not monitor this transfer effectively from outside my office. Thirdly, the fund in question has been embarked “A Contractor’s Payment”, therefore, the supposed foreign contractor must be presented before the fund can be legally paid. Fourthly, my contacting you is born out of the fact that I need a foreign company/person with a strong capital base to hold this huge amount (US$35,000,000.00) in trust, otherwise eye brows could be raised if it is paid into a lesser account. In transferring this money into your account, it is my considered opinion that you get 30% of the total sum, 10% shall be set aside to take care of all expenses, and 60% shall be kept in your account till I come over to your country to invest it with your guidance. For a smooth sail of this transaction, a masterpiece plan has been put in place to the effect that the whole operation will take twenty-one working days to drive it to a successful or logical conclusion. (I mean to remit the fund into your nominated account ). A contract number from a contract that has been concluded and the contractor paid in full has been reasign to this fund, which means that we now have an authentic contract number to work with. Every paper/file in connection with this transaction shall be carefully withdrawn from all offices concerned, after the money must have been safely remitted into your account, thus leaving no trace of the fund. However, you should treat this business with utmost confidentiality, as I and my father do not want anything to jeopardise our position in the office. If you are interested in this transaction, I expect you to contact me through my E-mail address: to enable me instruct you on what to do as well as furnish you with further details. All I needed from you are the following:- YOUR BANK PARTICULARS THE NAME OF THE BANK AND ADDRESS THE ROUTING NUMBER AND SORT CODE THE TELEPHONE AND FAX NUMBERS OF THE BANK THE ACCOUNT NUMBER YOUR COMPANY PHONE AND FAX AND YOUR PERSONAL PHONE AND FAX FOR EASY COMMUNICATION ALSO YOUR FULL ADDRESS TO REACH YOU. Awaiting to hear from you as soon as you finish reading the message. Yours faithfully, ENGR. GEORGE ORUMA IGE From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 07:37:44 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02516 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 07:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:36:45 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:36:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = IETro@ahdkme.n-anvrd Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = So cool a flash,enjoy it Scanning Time = 08/06/2002 08:36:40 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment color.scr matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\color3d4fd0e81e.scr_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 07:37:44 2002 Flags: 000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02515 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 07:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:36:45 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:36:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = jdelevan@paul.spu.edu Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = Is not available for this publication. Scanning Time = 08/06/2002 08:36:42 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment alink.exe matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\alink3d4fd0e91f.exe_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 07:53:27 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02816 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 07:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sjc3-1.relay.mail.uu.net (sjc3-1.relay.mail.uu.net [199.171.54.122]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g76DrMx12198 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:53:22 +0200 Received: from aegean.jcrew.com by sjc3sosrv11.alter.net with ESMTP (peer crosschecked as: firewall.jcrew.com [208.248.151.34]) id QQnatb03622 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 13:53:21 GMT Received: from mailclient.jcrew.com by mailhost.jcrew.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id JAA02620; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by khaki.jcrew.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA15843 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200208061353.JAA15843@khaki.jcrew.com> From: root@jcrew.com To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: Virus Alert Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) The mail message (file: pqdweb) you sent to angelac@jcrew.com contains a virus. (on viruswall) From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 07:57:12 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mobi-mail2.mobitel.si (turboslav.mobitel.si [193.189.186.50]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA02920 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 07:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from no.name.available by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si via smtpd (for sunshine.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 13:58:35 UT Received: from mail pickup service by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 15:57:10 +0200 From: Antigen To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Antigen Notification:Antigen found FILE FILTER= *.bat file Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Aug 2002 13:57:10.0531 (UTC) FILETIME=[28C30530:01C23D51] Date: 6 Aug 2002 15:57:10 +0200 Antigen for Exchange found V121041[1].bat matching FILE FILTER= *.bat file filter. The file is currently Removed. The message, "So cool a flash,enjoy it", was sent from maymounk and was discovered in SMTP Messages\Outbound located at MOBITEL.SI/MOBITEL0/MOBI-MAIL2. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 08:05:29 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03112 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:04:30 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:04:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = maymounk@fas.harvard.edu Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = So cool a flash,enjoy it Scanning Time = 08/06/2002 09:04:26 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment V121041[1].bat matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\V121041[1]3d4fd76920.bat_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 08:13:51 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mobi-mail2.mobitel.si (turboslav.mobitel.si [193.189.186.50]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03328 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:13:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from no.name.available by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si via smtpd (for sunshine.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) with SMTP; 6 Aug 2002 14:15:14 UT Received: from mail pickup service by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 16:13:48 +0200 From: Antigen To: tex-font@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Antigen Notification:Antigen found FILE FILTER= *.pif file Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Aug 2002 14:13:48.0175 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B6769F0:01C23D53] Date: 6 Aug 2002 16:13:48 +0200 Antigen for Exchange found English.pif matching FILE FILTER= *.pif file filter. The file is currently Removed. The message, "Returned mail--"MARGINHEIGHT"", was sent from postmaster and was discovered in SMTP Messages\Outbound located at MOBITEL.SI/MOBITEL0/MOBI-MAIL2. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 08:25:29 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03523 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:24:31 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-font@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:24:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = postmaster@math.utah.edu Recipient(s) = tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject = Returned mail--"MARGINHEIGHT" Scanning Time = 08/06/2002 09:24:27 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment English.pif matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\English3d4fdc1b22.pif_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 08:25:29 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03522 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:24:31 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-font@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:24:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = dextended@aol.com Recipient(s) = tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject = SCROLLING Scanning Time = 08/06/2002 09:24:27 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment Rv.scr matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\Rv3d4fdc1b21.scr_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Tue Aug 6 09:35:23 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04892 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 09:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sdn-ar-024casfrmp080.dialsprint.net ([63.183.9.82] helo=PINGA.ai.mit.edu) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17c5sQ-0003gq-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 06 Aug 2002 08:04:03 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.2.20020806080134.025467e0@mail.ai.mit.edu> X-Sender: bkph@mail.ai.mit.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 08:02:01 -0700 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" Subject: REMOVE In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_55904716==.ALT" --=====================_55904716==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed --=====================_55904716==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

    --=====================_55904716==.ALT-- From tex-fonts-errors Wed Aug 7 02:59:43 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: <911@1234.com> Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18739 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 02:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PC-1. ([202.108.68.140]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g778xWx17839 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:59:33 +0200 x-esmtp: 0 0 1 Message-ID: <526268-2200283723544897@PC-1> To: "NEW020515" <911@1234.com> From: "Ë÷ÎÄ·­Ò빫˾" <911@1234.com> Subject: Ë÷ÎÄ·­ÒëÓÐÏÞ¹«Ë¾£¬±ÊÒë¡¢¿ÚÒë¡¢ÍøÕ¾±¾µØ»¯--www.soven.com Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:35:44 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =CA=D7  =D2=B3

    All information g= iven herein is strictly confidential and will not be re-distributed for any reason other than for the specific use intended.<= br> To be removed from our distribution lists, please Clic= k here..
    =20
    | =20 =CA=D7  = =D2=B3 |=20 =CD=F8=D5=BE=BC=F2=BD=E9 | =D2=B5=CE=F1=B7=B6=CE=A7 =20 | =CA=D5=B7=D1= =B1=EA=D7=BC | =D6= =CA=C1=BF=BF=D8=D6=C6 =20 | =B9=AB=CB=BE= =D2=B5=BC=A8 | =B9= =AB=CB=BE=D2=EB=D6=F8 =20 | =CD=F8= =D5=BE=BA=BA=BB=AF | =D4=DA=CF=DF=C2=DB=CC=B8 =20 | =C1=AA=CF=B5= =B7=BD=CA=BD |

    =B7=AD=D2=EB=B7=A8=C2=C9= =D0=A7=C1=A6

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    10=CD=F2=D7=D6=D2=D4=C9= =CF=A3=BA=D3=A2=D2=EB=D6=D090/=C7=A7=D7=D6,=D6=D0=D2=EB=D3=A2120/=C7=A7=D7= =D6

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    =D2=BB=B0=E3=C9=CC=CE=F1=BB=E1=CC=B8=A3=BA400=A3=AF8=D0=A1=CA=B1= =A3=AC=D6=D0=D0=CD=C9=CC=CE=F1=BB=E1=D2=E9=A3=BA600=A3=AF8=D0=A1=CA=B1=A3=AC= =B4=F3=D0=CD=C9=CC=CE=F1=BB=E1=D2=E9=A3=BA1000=A3=AF8=D0=A1=CA=B1

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    =20
    | =20 =CA=D7  = =D2=B3 |=20 =CD=F8=D5=BE=BC=F2=BD=E9 | =D2=B5=CE=F1=B7=B6=CE=A7 =20 | =CA=D5=B7=D1= =B1=EA=D7=BC | =D6= =CA=C1=BF=BF=D8=D6=C6 =20 | =B9=AB=CB=BE= =D2=B5=BC=A8 | =B9= =AB=CB=BE=D2=EB=D6=F8 =20 | =CD=F8= =D5=BE=BA=BA=BB=AF | =D4=DA=CF=DF=C2=DB=CC=B8 =20 | =C1=AA=CF=B5= =B7=BD=CA=BD |
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    E-mail:=20 =C7= =EB=B7=A2email=B8=F8=CE=D2=C3=C7 =CD=F8=D5=BE=A3=BAhttp://www=2E= soven=2Ecom/
    ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- From tex-fonts-errors Wed Aug 7 17:58:05 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02131 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2002 17:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.tug.org ([212.96.2.134]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g77NvOx22380 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 01:57:30 +0200 Message-Id: <200208072357.g77NvOx22380@tug.org> From: "Idris" Date: Sat, 05 Jan 1980 17:57:31 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: I NEED YOUR HELP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) Date:August 7,2002. Email:idris1000@pebbles.com To your Good Attention My name is Mr. Idris A.Alameyah. I was a director in ministry of Land and Natural Resources in the Western Saharan Republic. My country is of about 10 million people,very happy and rich but developing. I have an offer to make to you which will benefit both of us. Through the award of contracts to three German Companies in three years, I was able to make US$55 million. Due to the small size of my country, if this fund is injected into the economy, it will instantly attract suspicion so I decided to use a foreigner to secure it out of Western Sahara. I have properly rendered and closed the accounts for the three years last December of 2001 and so the US$55 Million is safely mine now. The money is secured in two separate ways of US$25m and US$30m. Due to our poor banking system here I want you to assist me to secure the funds for me in Europe. You will have to travel to the European nation, which I will later tell you and secure the funds for me. For this assistance, I will give you US$10million. The rest will be mine and you will also help me in investing it in real estates and other profitable businesses. This transaction is planned to be concluded quickly. I will give you the necessary documentations to claim ownership of the money on my behalf. The documentations will officially legalize the transaction in your name so that it will be completely safe for both of us. I am also aware of the attention large movement of funds attract now since the September 11th 2001 attack on New York, so I will provide you with Clearance Certificate. Once again, I assure you it is going to be a risk free transaction. Once I get your response, I will give you further information/details of how we are going to quickly and safely conclude the transaction and start investments. I await your response through my above e-mail address. Best regards, Mr.Idris A.Alameyah From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 04:28:07 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mobi-mail2.mobitel.si (turboslav.mobitel.si [193.189.186.50]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA09283 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 04:28:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from no.name.available by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si via smtpd (for sunshine.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 10:29:30 UT Received: from mail pickup service by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:28:04 +0200 From: Antigen To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Antigen Notification:Antigen found FILE FILTER= *.pif file Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2002 10:28:04.0416 (UTC) FILETIME=[47854C00:01C23EC6] Date: 8 Aug 2002 12:28:04 +0200 Antigen for Exchange found align.pif matching FILE FILTER= *.pif file filter. The file is currently Removed. The message, "DESCRIPTION END ", was sent from wbnolen and was discovered in SMTP Messages\Outbound located at MOBITEL.SI/MOBITEL0/MOBI-MAIL2. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 04:45:58 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09566 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 04:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:44:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:44:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = wbnolen@worldnet.att.net Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = DESCRIPTION END Scanning Time = 08/08/2002 05:44:54 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment align.pif matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\align3d524ba52f.pif_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 04:45:58 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09567 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 04:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:44:56 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:44:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = tex-fonts@tug.org Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = Fw:tex-fonts,your password Scanning Time = 08/08/2002 05:44:53 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment product[1].scr matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\product[1]3d524ba42e.scr_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 05:00:19 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from tug.org (isdn-2-178.daimi.au.dk [130.225.2.178]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09857 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com (mailout03.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.81]) by tug.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g78B08x27126 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:00:14 +0200 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17cl1T-0001hR-01; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:00:07 +0200 Received: from uni-bonn.de (510080520004-0001@[80.133.118.39]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 17cl1J-1Zfw5QC; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:59:57 +0200 Message-ID: <3D524F34.6000702@uni-bonn.de> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:00:04 +0200 From: matthias.c.schmidt@t-online.de (Matthias C. Schmidt) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de-DE; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: de-DE MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@tug.org Subject: unsubscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: 510080520004-0001@t-dialin.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/) UNSUBSCRIBE From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 05:00:51 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com (mailout03.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.81]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09873 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 17cl21-00035e-02; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:00:41 +0200 Received: from uni-bonn.de (510080520004-0001@[80.133.118.39]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 17cl1i-1giKhcC; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:00:22 +0200 Message-ID: <3D524F4D.3020008@uni-bonn.de> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:00:29 +0200 From: matthias.c.schmidt@t-online.de (Matthias C. Schmidt) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de-DE; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020314 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: de-DE MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Sender: 510080520004-0001@t-dialin.net UNSUBSCRIBE From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 05:06:56 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09963 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:06:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:06:11 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-fonts@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:06:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = taupin@lps.u-psud.fr Recipient(s) = tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject = Re:tex-fonts,sos! Scanning Time = 08/08/2002 06:06:09 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment href.scr matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\href3d5250a130.scr_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 05:15:05 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mobi-mail2.mobitel.si (turboslav.mobitel.si [193.189.186.50]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10136 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:15:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from no.name.available by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si via smtpd (for sunshine.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 11:16:29 UT Received: from mail pickup service by mobi-mail2.mobitel.si with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:15:03 +0200 From: Antigen To: tex-font@sunshine.math.utah.edu Subject: Antigen Notification:Antigen found FILE FILTER= *.bat file Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Aug 2002 11:15:03.0161 (UTC) FILETIME=[D79FA690:01C23ECC] Date: 8 Aug 2002 13:15:03 +0200 Antigen for Exchange found Part .bat matching FILE FILTER= *.bat file filter. The file is currently Removed. The message, "Of Legislation", was sent from root and was discovered in SMTP Messages\Outbound located at MOBITEL.SI/MOBITEL0/MOBI-MAIL2. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 05:34:28 2002 Flags: 000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10495 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:34:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:33:26 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-font@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:33:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = dbryson@centralva.net Recipient(s) = tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject = Of Legislation Scanning Time = 08/08/2002 06:33:25 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment Part .exe matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\Part 3d52570431.exe_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 05:34:28 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from anchim.chm.anl.gov (anchim.chm.anl.gov [146.137.86.75]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10493 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:34:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by anchim.chm.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:33:26 -0500 Message-ID: From: System Attendant To: "'tex-font@math.utah.edu'" Subject: ScanMail Message: To Recipient virus found or matched file blocki ng setting. Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:33:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain ScanMail for Microsoft Exchange has taken action on the message, please refer to the contents of this message for further details. Sender = root@infovore.xs4all.nl Recipient(s) = tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject = Of Legislation Scanning Time = 08/08/2002 06:33:25 Engine/Pattern = 6.150-1001/333 Action on message: The attachment Part .bat matched file blocking settings. ScanMail has taken the Moved action. The attachment was moved to C:\PROGRA~1\SMailEx\Alert\Part 3d52570532.bat_. Warning to recipient. ScanMail has detected a virus. From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 05:52:33 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10610 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 05:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [63.221.202.232] (helo=test2) by gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17clqC-0002VX-00 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Thu, 08 Aug 2002 04:52:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000901c23ed2$291cc200$e8cadd3f@TTID> Reply-To: "Janc" From: "Janc" To: Subject: REMOVE Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 07:53:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From tex-fonts-errors Thu Aug 8 06:05:56 2002 Flags: 000000000000 Return-Path: Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by sunshine.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA10731 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 06:05:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6680 invoked by uid 0); 8 Aug 2002 12:05:24 -0000 Received: from port-212-202-165-200.reverse.qdsl-home.de (HELO isolde) (212.202.165.200) by mail.gmx.net (mp002-rz3) with SMTP; 8 Aug 2002 12:05:24 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Stefan Keul Reply-To: st.keul@gmx.de To: "tex-fonts" Subject: unsubscribe Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 14:05:44 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 References: <200207241119.FAA20923@sunshine.math.utah.edu> In-Reply-To: <200207241119.FAA20923@sunshine.math.utah.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200208081405.44154.st.keul@gmx.de> unsubscribe