4-Jun-1997 8:56:00-GMT,1825;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA12359 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 02:51:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA06320 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:51:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id KAA19266; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:32:46 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:32:46 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199706040832.KAA19266@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Fontinst Mailing list CC: tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject: hidden composites X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII hello, there exist some fonts (like Monotype baskerville or Lino didot) where the AFM declares true chars that are indeed composites built in the PFA by a seac construct. These may fool some partial font downloading software (downloading the PFA definition of egrave in mbvr8r willnot download the two outlines needed to print this char). An example being the current pdftex. As these PS fonts are usually used through fontinst's VFs, I think it would be more interesting to redeclare these chars as composites in the AFM, and do the composition inside the VF, which would solve this particular problem. Does anybody know how to add the composite section of the AFM when the only available info is the seac construct in the PFA? Any different reaction? Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 5-Jun-1997 0:11:12-GMT,2589;000000000001 Received: from cs.sfu.ca (cs.sfu.ca [142.58.111.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03506 for ; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 18:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (oneill@alonzo [199.60.3.17]) by cs.sfu.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05545; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:02:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Melissa O'Neill" Received: (oneill@localhost) by alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id RAA23955; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706050002.RAA23955@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: hidden composites To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr (Thierry Bouche) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Cc: fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-font@math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <199706040832.KAA19266@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> from "Thierry Bouche" at Jun 4, 97 10:32:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Bouche says: > there exist some fonts (like Monotype baskerville or Lino didot) where > the AFM declares true chars that are indeed composites built in the > PFA by a seac construct. These may fool some partial font downloading > software (downloading the PFA definition of egrave in mbvr8r willnot > download the two outlines needed to print this char). An example being > the current pdftex. I'd say the problem isn't the AFM, but the partial font downloader; it should be doing a better job. (It might not even be that hard to fix if you have the source.) Generally, I've found that AFMs have more metric information than one can extract (easily) from a PFA file, however. However, a quick look at the available information seems to indicate that it might be doable in this case. You'd need a tool like t1disasm to look at the relevent `seac' entries in the CharStrings dictionary, then if you see: / { hsbw seac } ND ...and, if you let: = StandardEncoding[] = StandardEncoding[] = + - = ... then you could try the following composite character entry in the AFM file: CC 2 ; PCC 0 0 ; PCC ; It shouldn't be too hard to write a perl script to do this all automatically. This formula was derived emperically, by comparing AFM files of fonts I had with their corresponding disassembled CharStrings; I make no claims about its general applicability. Anyway, I hope this helps, Melissa. 5-Jun-1997 13:38:49-GMT,2547;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA19142 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA10235; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:27:24 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id PAA19689; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:30:56 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:30:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199706051330.PAA19689@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: "Melissa O'Neill" Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr (Thierry Bouche), fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: hidden composites In-Reply-To: <199706050002.RAA23955@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> References: <199706040832.KAA19266@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199706050002.RAA23955@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi again & thanks! Concernant « Re: hidden composites », Melissa O'Neill écrit : > Generally, I've found that AFMs have more metric information than one > can extract (easily) from a PFA file, however. However, a quick look of course > at the available information seems to indicate that it might be doable > in this case. > > You'd need a tool like t1disasm to look at the relevent `seac' entries > in the CharStrings dictionary, then if you see: > > / { > hsbw > seac > } ND > > ...and, if you let: > = StandardEncoding[] > = StandardEncoding[] > = + - > = > > ... then you could try the following composite character entry in the AFM > file: > > CC 2 ; PCC 0 0 ; PCC ; > nice explaination, I hadn't recognise these computations! > It shouldn't be too hard to write a perl script to do this all automatically. > or maybe it's doable in postscript? > This formula was derived emperically, by comparing AFM files of fonts > I had with their corresponding disassembled CharStrings; I make no claims > about its general applicability. > it seems to be true for adobe 35 standard already. Thanks again 5-Jun-1997 14:36:52-GMT,1875;000000000001 Received: from frankfurt. (frankfurt.germany.net [151.189.0.20]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA19847 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 08:00:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pp48 by frankfurt. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA21367; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:59:21 +0200 Message-ID: <3396F182.2244@germany.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 13:04:02 -0400 From: Hilmar Schlegel <100.143869@germany.net> Reply-To: Hilmar Schlegel Organization: http://home.pages.de/~typo-pages/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: hidden composites References: <199706050002.RAA23955@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Melissa O'Neill wrote: > I'd say the problem isn't the AFM, but the partial font downloader; it > should be doing a better job. (It might not even be that hard to fix > if you have the source.) Good suggestion - the source is avail for your attempts in this direction ;-) > Generally, I've found that AFMs have more metric information than one > can extract (easily) from a PFA file, however. Even more specifically, the tools for generating the complete (and exact) AFM are available for years meanwhile. But of course please feel free to reinvent the wheel... > However, a quick look > at the available information seems to indicate that it might be doable > in this case. Oh well - it is true! > Anyway, I hope this helps, I fear not too much - as long as getafm or similar code is not adjusted nothing will change. Hilmar Schlegel -- --------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:hshlgaii@mailszrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE?Subject=Mail response http://home.pages.de/~typo-pages/ --------------------------------------------------------------- 5-Jun-1997 18:04:58-GMT,3331;000000000001 Received: from cs.sfu.ca (cs.sfu.ca [142.58.111.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA25738 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 12:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (oneill@alonzo [199.60.3.17]) by cs.sfu.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11274; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:00:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Melissa O'Neill" Received: (oneill@localhost) by alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA00140; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:00:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706051800.LAA00140@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: hidden composites To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr (Thierry Bouche) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 11:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Cc: fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-font@math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <199706051330.PAA19689@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> from "Thierry Bouche" at Jun 5, 97 03:30:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thierry Bouche writes: > Hi again & thanks! > > nice explaination, I hadn't recognise these computations! > > maybe it's doable in postscript? Two difficulties for doing the computations in PostScript are that read access to the CharStrings dictionary of a font is usually forbidden, and one would have to decode the bytecodes that make up the CharSrings entries. There may be ways around this, but it is likely more trouble than its worth if you have t1disasm and perl handy. Hilmar Schlegel writes: > Good suggestion - the source [for the partial font downloader in > pdftex] is avail for your attempts in this direction ;-) I've already fixed bugs in the dvips partial font downloader, as some here know, so it's not so outlandish for me to suggest that this bug might be fixable. Currently, I don't use pdftex nor the troublesome fonts in question, so I have no burning personal need to fix the bug. > Even more specifically, the tools for generating the complete (and > exact) AFM are available for years meanwhile. But of course please feel > free to reinvent the wheel... I'm not aware of any tools that generate the same `CC' entries and the same kern pairs provided by the font vendor (which is the only ``correct'' AFM for a font). It is my understanding that kern pairs are usually hand tuned by the font designer, so I do not see how what you say can be true. Nevertheless, if you feel I am reinventing the wheel, do please tell us all of the utilities that are available that Thierry should be using to solve his problem. I wrote: >> Anyway, I hope this helps, ... and Hilmar Schlegel replied: > I fear not too much - as long as getafm or similar code is not adjusted > nothing will change. Thierry seemed very pleased, and he was the person I was trying to help. Getafm has nothing to do with this, as far as I can see. Thierry had the vendor's AFM file, which is more complete than anything getafm might produce -- especially since getafm lists no kern pairs and no composite character entries. Melissa. P.S. Having corresponded with Hilmar Schlegel once before and been hurt by what I found an arrogant and condescending attitude, and disappointed at what I saw as lack comprehension and insight, I will likely not respond to anything else he might say on this matter. 13-Jun-1997 12:09:11-GMT,2600;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA17136 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 05:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.15) with ESMTP id HAA16900; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id HAA09379; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706131154.HAA09379@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr CC: fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-font@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <199706040832.KAA19266@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> (message from Thierry Bouche on Wed, 4 Jun 1997 10:32:46 +0200 (MET DST)) Subject: Re: hidden composites Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu hello, there exist some fonts (like Monotype baskerville or Lino didot) where the AFM declares true chars that are indeed composites built in the PFA by a seac construct. These may fool some partial font downloading software (downloading the PFA definition of egrave in mbvr8r willnot download the two outlines needed to print this char). An example being the current pdftex. Oops! Are you sure? This works in *some* partial font downloading schemes :-) As these PS fonts are usually used through fontinst's VFs, I think it would be more interesting to redeclare these chars as composites in the AFM, and do the composition inside the VF, which would solve this particular problem. Does anybody know how to add the composite section of the AFM when the only available info is the seac construct in the PFA? You can use PFAtoAFM and extract the Composites section of the AFM file (PFAtoAFM is in the Y&Y `Font Manipulation Package'). If you want to do it by hand then watch out for an error in the original Type 1 book which says that the offsets are with respect to the character origins when in fact they are with respect to the left side-bearing point (the Adobe site has both the Type 1 book in PDF form and the addendum). Any different reaction? Of course, a much better solution is to fix the partial font downloading you are using. As far as I can tell it wouldn't slow it down much more, since it already does more than one pass in order to prune out Subrs that are not used. Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 13-Jun-1997 12:34:44-GMT,2830;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA17724 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.15) with ESMTP id IAA17145; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id IAA09403; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706131208.IAA09403@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: oneill@cs.sfu.ca CC: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-font@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <199706051800.LAA00140@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> (oneill@cs.sfu.ca) Subject: Re: hidden composites Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Thierry Bouche writes: > Hi again & thanks! > nice explaination, I hadn't recognise these computations! > maybe it's doable in postscript? Hilmar Schlegel writes: > Even more specifically, the tools for generating the complete (and > exact) AFM are available for years meanwhile. But of course please feel > free to reinvent the wheel... I'm not aware of any tools that generate the same `CC' entries and the same kern pairs provided by the font vendor (which is the only ``correct'' AFM for a font). It is my understanding that kern pairs are usually hand tuned by the font designer, so I do not see how what you say can be true. PFAtoAFM will reproduce virtually everything in an AFM file including character bounding boxes even for unencoded characters. This includes the Composite character section. The PFB (or PFA) file does not contain kern pairs or kern tracking information, so that part is not available by this method. PFMtoAFM on the other hand will extract the kern pairs (and other information). PFAtoAFM can take output from PFMtoAFM as auxiliary input to create essentially a complete AFM file. Of course, all quality fonts should come with proper AFM files in the first place - so there should be no need to ever to any of this :-) Nevertheless, if you feel I am reinventing the wheel, do please tell us all of the utilities that are available that Thierry should be using to solve his problem. `Font Manipulation Package' see http://www.YandY.com P.S. Having corresponded with Hilmar Schlegel once before and been hurt by what I found an arrogant and condescending attitude, and disappointed at what I saw as lack comprehension and insight, I will likely not respond to anything else he might say on this matter. DISCLAIMER: respondent has connections with Y&Y. 13-Jun-1997 14:15:52-GMT,1738;000000000011 Received: from hmljs.rzs-hm.si (hmljs.rzs-hm.si [193.2.208.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20095 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hmljhp.rzs-hm.si (hmljhp.rzs-hm.si) by rzs-hm.si (PMDF V5.0-4 #16286) id <01IK0Z5ILOSW9I46DZ@rzs-hm.si>; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:15:14 +0000 (GMT) Received: from localhost by hmljhp.rzs-hm.si with SMTP (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA190091313; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:15:13 +0200 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:15:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Metod Kozelj Subject: tex-fonts mailing list To: beebe@math.utah.edu Cc: Metod Kozelj Reply-to: Metod Kozelj Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello, if I remember right, you administer the tex-fonts mailing list. I've been subscribed to it for some time. I'm changing my e-mail address and I wonder what's the proper way of changing the address to which I'm receiving the mail. I'd apprecheate if you can do it for me. Currently I'm receiving the mail >From the list to 'metodk@fiz.uni-lj.si' (or perhaps 'metodk@samson.fiz.uni-lj.si'). I'd like to receive it to 'metod.kozelj@rzs-hm.si' (my current address). If you need some proof, I can send you similar message from my old address. Thank you in advance. Metod Kozelj mailto:Metod.Kozelj@rzs-hm.si /\ Ne posiljajte mi smeti ker grizem! http://www.rzs-hm.si/people/Metod.Kozelj/ \ Don't spam me for I bite! _______________________________________/ \__________________________________ 13-Jun-1997 19:18:07-GMT,3182;000000000001 Received: from cs.sfu.ca (cs.sfu.ca [142.58.111.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27622 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:15:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (oneill@alonzo [199.60.3.17]) by cs.sfu.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA05736; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:15:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Melissa O'Neill" Received: (oneill@localhost) by alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id MAA25595; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706131915.MAA25595@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: hidden composites To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:15:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <199706131208.IAA09403@kauai.ai.mit.edu> from "Berthold K.P. Horn" at Jun 13, 97 08:08:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote (thinking about extracting information from PFA/PFB files): >> I'm not aware of any tools that generate the same `CC' entries and the >> same kern pairs provided by the font vendor (which is the only ``correct'' >> AFM for a font). ... and Berthold K.P. Horn to replied, saying: > PFAtoAFM will reproduce virtually everything in an AFM file including > character bounding boxes even for unencoded characters. This includes the > Composite character section. The PFB (or PFA) file does not contain > kern pairs or kern tracking information, so that part is not available > by this method. > > PFMtoAFM on the other hand will extract the kern pairs (and other > information). PFAtoAFM can take output from PFMtoAFM as auxiliary > input to create essentially a complete AFM file. It's excellent that PFAtoAFM is smart enough to work out the CC entries; after all, the necessary information is right there in the font. I guess I should probably have been a little more specific in my original posting, and since I should really have added that I was taking about freely available tools, not commercial software. I'm sure if you use FontLab, Fontographer, etc. or somesuch, you can do all sorts of font manipulations that I wasn't considering. I've always wanted to use Y&Y's tools for font manipulation, since they seem very capable, but been held back by both their price and the fact that they seem to run only under DOS, which makes them utterly useless to me. Also, since Berthold brings up PFMs, I've been told for a long time that PFMs have almost all the information you'll find in an AFM but some things are missing, but never known exactly what (if I had to guess I'd probably go for the composite character entries). I'd be really interested if someone who knows could enlighten me, just for curiosity's sake. (Similarly, I've never really understood why Adobe introduced PFMs and MMM files when they had AFMs and AMFMs, it just seems to add needless complexity and incompatibility to font issues.) > Of course, all quality fonts should come with proper AFM files in the > first place - so there should be no need to ever to any of this :-) Absolutely! Melissa. 13-Jun-1997 19:59:23-GMT,2406;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA28662 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.15) with ESMTP id PAA06437; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id PAA09767; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706131956.PAA09767@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: oneill@cs.sfu.ca CC: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <199706131915.MAA25595@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> (oneill@cs.sfu.ca) Subject: Re: hidden composites Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu I wrote (thinking about extracting information from PFA/PFB files): Also, since Berthold brings up PFMs, I've been told for a long time that PFMs have almost all the information you'll find in an AFM but some things are missing, but never known exactly what (if I had to guess I'd probably go for the composite character entries). I'd be really interested if someone who knows could enlighten me, just for curiosity's sake. PFM's are rather anaemic. They do not contain character bounding boxes. They contain no information on unencoded characters. They do not have the font encoding. Some of these flaws are shared with TFM files. (Similarly, I've never really understood why Adobe introduced PFMs and MMM files when they had AFMs and AMFMs, it just seems to add needless complexity and incompatibility to font issues.) For the same reason TeX uses TFM's rather than say PL's: speed and compactness. For many fonts the AFM file is almost as large as the actual font itself in PFB format and takes a long time to parse. I don't know what platform you are on, but if you are on a Mac then you have another weirdness, which is the `screen font' suitcase the only real use of which is the FOND resource that contains the font's metrics - quite like the PFM file. As for AMFM's, I have never seen one and am beginning to doubt whether they really exist. I always make AFM or TFM files for my Multiple Master instances directly from the installed font. Berthold 13-Jun-1997 20:43:19-GMT,3239;000000000001 Received: from cs.sfu.ca (cs.sfu.ca [142.58.111.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA29748 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 14:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (oneill@alonzo [199.60.3.17]) by cs.sfu.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10381; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:41:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Melissa O'Neill" Received: (oneill@localhost) by alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id NAA25752; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706132041.NAA25752@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: hidden composites To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Cc: oneill@cs.sfu.ca, Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <199706131956.PAA09767@kauai.ai.mit.edu> from "Berthold K.P. Horn" at Jun 13, 97 03:56:45 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I said: >> I've been told for a long time that PFMs have almost all the information >> you'll find in an AFM but some things are missing, but never known >> exactly what. ... and Berthold K.P. Horn replied, saying: > PFM's are rather anaemic. They do not contain character bounding > boxes. They contain no information on unencoded characters. They do > not have the font encoding. Eww... I also said: >> Similarly, I've never really understood why Adobe introduced PFMs >> and MMM files when they had AFMs and AMFMs, it just seems to add >> needless complexity and incompatibility to font issues. ... and Berthold replied: > For the same reason TeX uses TFM's rather than say PL's: speed and > compactness. For many fonts the AFM file is almost as large as the > actual font itself in PFB format and takes a long time to parse. > I don't know what platform you are on, but if you are on a Mac then you > have another weirdness, which is the `screen font' suitcase the only real > use of which is the FOND resource that contains the font's metrics - > quite like the PFM file. > > As for AMFM's, I have never seen one and am beginning to doubt whether > they really exist. I always make AFM or TFM files for my Multiple > Master instances directly from the installed font. Well, still I don't think it was such a good strategy. My AFMs seem to average about 25% of the size of my PFA files, which I'm fine with, compared to the other sources of bloat you find in computer systems -- especially since people doing serious work using fonts may find that their software needs the AFMs anyway, meaning they get the bloat of having AFMs and PFMs or AFMs and Font Suitcases. I use NEXTSTEP, which uses AFMs directly, although it caches the information from parsing the AFMs for better performance. Whether NEXTSTEP's successor, Rhapsody will do the same remains to be seen; maybe by that time OpenType will have fixed everything. I have AMFMs (and the sets of design AFMs needed) for Nueva and Tekton, my two Multiple Master fonts, so I can vouch for their reality. Getting AMFMs for Nueva required a contact in Adobe. It certainly looks like Adobe doesn't want to bother with them any more. Best Regards, Melissa. 14-Jun-1997 10:03:43-GMT,3597;000000000001 Received: from elara.germany.net (elara.germany.net [151.189.0.18]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15288 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 03:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pp52 (pp42.berlin2m.germany.net [192.168.24.42]) by elara.germany.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20598; Sat, 14 Jun 1997 11:57:12 +0200 Message-ID: <33A218E3.60F5@germany.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 00:06:59 -0400 From: Hilmar Schlegel <100.143869@germany.net> Reply-To: Hilmar Schlegel Organization: http://home.pages.de/~typo-pages/ X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bkph@ai.mit.edu CC: fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-font@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: hidden composites References: <199706131956.PAA09767@kauai.ai.mit.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > I wrote (thinking about extracting information from PFA/PFB files): .. > probably go for the composite character entries). I'd be really interested > if someone who knows could enlighten me, just for curiosity's sake. > > PFM's are rather anaemic. They do not contain character bounding boxes. > They contain no information on unencoded characters. They do not have Which means kerns for unencoded characters are definitively lost... (Examples are fi, fl on a PC) > (Similarly, I've never really understood why Adobe introduced PFMs and > MMM files when they had AFMs and AMFMs, it just seems to add needless > complexity and incompatibility to font issues.) > > For the same reason TeX uses TFM's rather than say PL's: speed and > compactness. For many fonts the AFM file is almost as large as the ... and for some half-hearted interface to make life easier for M$-Win: store win face names and little confused attribute bits ;-) The essential message would be here that PFM's do not contain the height of the individual characters in a font, which means that M$-win *cannot* access character heights and consequently uses the *font* bounding box as an ersatz. Given that is true *no* software getting metric information only from the M$-win "fontsystem" and not directly from the fonts (AFM or PFB) will be able to produce reasonable typography. (Most people will know the line-spacing problems in M$-word - when a font which has only a single "large" character comes into play). Simply a design fault ;-) Another version are OFM-files: That's what Os/2 uses to compile from AFM-files. I'd be curious if there is a specification available somewhere. Especially interesting would be the question of completeness also for this case. > As for AMFM's, I have never seen one and am beginning to doubt whether > they really exist. They exist! The news is that with the level 4 ATM-compatible mutiple masters you will need besides the AFMs also access to the PFB itself for blending (at least in the general case). That means that from this point the metric files no longer contain the *complete* metric information of a font. > I always make AFM or TFM files for my Multiple > Master instances directly from the installed font. Berthold, there is a little problem with that, however! This method doesn't work for the composites in multiple master fonts (in contrast to PFAtoAFM) - or do I miss here something? Hilmar Schlegel -- --------------------------------------------------------------- mailto:hshlgaii@mailszrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE?Subject=Mail response http://home.pages.de/~typo-pages/ --------------------------------------------------------------- 16-Jun-1997 10:02:38-GMT,1683;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA08437 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 03:55:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA17050; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:55:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id MAA18160; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:00:17 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:00:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199706161000.MAA18160@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: "Melissa O'Neill" CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: hidden composites In-Reply-To: <199706132041.NAA25752@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> References: <199706131956.PAA09767@kauai.ai.mit.edu> <199706132041.NAA25752@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Concernant « Re: hidden composites », Melissa O'Neill écrit : > I have AMFMs (and the sets of design AFMs needed) for Nueva and Tekton, > my two Multiple Master fonts, so I can vouch for their reality. Getting > AMFMs for Nueva required a contact in Adobe. It certainly looks like > Adobe doesn't want to bother with them any more. > do you mean that they don't even consider people willing to use MM fonts without acces to some flavour of ATM? It's a shame! Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 16-Jun-1997 18:08:24-GMT,1828;000000000001 Received: from cs.sfu.ca (cs.sfu.ca [142.58.111.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA19233 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 12:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (oneill@alonzo [199.60.3.17]) by cs.sfu.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07137; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:04:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Melissa O'Neill" Received: (oneill@localhost) by alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id LAA14838; Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706161804.LAA14838@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: hidden composites To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr (Thierry Bouche) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <199706161000.MAA18160@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> from "Thierry Bouche" at Jun 16, 97 12:00:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wrote: >> I have AMFMs (and the sets of design AFMs needed) for Nueva and Tekton, >> my two Multiple Master fonts, so I can vouch for their reality. Getting >> AMFMs for Nueva required a contact in Adobe. It certainly looks like >> Adobe doesn't want to bother with them any more. ... and Thierry Bouche replied: > do you mean that they don't even consider people willing to use MM > fonts without acces to some flavour of ATM? That's about the size of it. The platforms without ATM are a tiny percentage of Adobe's business, so it's little surprise if support is inaqequate for those platforms. Chris, from Adobe Technical Support told me: < You are correct; our ftp site does not include all AFM files. We are no < longer updating that list, as we get very few requests for AFM files. < Most applications no longer need them. *sigh* Melissa. 18-Jun-1997 14:24:39-GMT,3362;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19599 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:03:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.15) with ESMTP id JAA12658; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id JAA11360; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:57:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706181357.JAA11360@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: hshlgaii@mailszrz.zrz.tu-berlin.de CC: fontinst@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-font@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <33A218E3.60F5@germany.net> (message from Hilmar Schlegel on Sat, 14 Jun 1997 00:06:59 -0400) Subject: Re: hidden composites Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Reply-To: Hilmar Schlegel > I wrote (thinking about extracting information from PFA/PFB files): .. > probably go for the composite character entries). I'd be really interested > if someone who knows could enlighten me, just for curiosity's sake. > PFM's are rather anaemic. They do not contain character bounding boxes. > They contain no information on unencoded characters. They do not have Which means kerns for unencoded characters are definitively lost... (Examples are fi, fl on a PC) Yes. Which is one of the reasons having the actual AFM file is better. Not that any AFM files I have sen have any kern pairs with fi and fl... > (Similarly, I've never really understood why Adobe introduced PFMs and > MMM files when they had AFMs and AMFMs, it just seems to add needless > complexity and incompatibility to font issues.) > For the same reason TeX uses TFM's rather than say PL's: speed and > compactness. For many fonts the AFM file is almost as large as the and for some half-hearted interface to make life easier for M$-Win: store win face names and little confused attribute bits ;-) The essential message would be here that PFM's do not contain the height of the individual characters in a font, which means that M$-win *cannot* access character heights and consequently uses the *font* bounding box as an ersatz. Given that is true *no* software getting metric information only from the M$-win "fontsystem" and not directly from the fonts (AFM or PFB) will be able to produce reasonable typography. (Most people will know the line-spacing problems in M$-word - when a font which has only a single "large" character comes into play). Simply a design fault ;-) Yes, if you only use the information in the font metric file you will not have enough for TeX. Which is why you either need the AFM, or PFAtoAFM or DVIWindo to extract this information for you. The information *IS* available to a Windows program - even for unencoded characters. > I always make AFM or TFM files for my Multiple > Master instances directly from the installed font. Berthold, there is a little problem with that, however! This method doesn't work for the composites in multiple master fonts (in contrast to PFAtoAFM) - or do I miss here something? Not sure why you say that? Regards, Berthold. 18-Jun-1997 14:48:01-GMT,2227;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20394 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 08:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.15) with ESMTP id KAA14304; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:37:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id KAA11389; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199706181437.KAA11389@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: oneill@cs.sfu.ca CC: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <199706161804.LAA14838@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> (oneill@cs.sfu.ca) Subject: Re: hidden composites Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Hi: I wrote: >> I have AMFMs (and the sets of design AFMs needed) for Nueva and Tekton, >> my two Multiple Master fonts, so I can vouch for their reality. Getting >> AMFMs for Nueva required a contact in Adobe. It certainly looks like >> Adobe doesn't want to bother with them any more. ... and Thierry Bouche replied: > do you mean that they don't even consider people willing to use MM > fonts without acces to some flavour of ATM? That's about the size of it. The platforms without ATM are a tiny percentage of Adobe's business, so it's little surprise if support is inaqequate for those platforms. Chris, from Adobe Technical Support told me: < You are correct; our ftp site does not include all AFM files. We are no < longer updating that list, as we get very few requests for AFM files. < Most applications no longer need them. *sigh* Melissa. The AFM files for Adobe fonts are most conveniently found on the `Type on Call' (TOC 4.1) CD-ROM (which is also the most convenient way of buying there fonts - in fact its hard to get some packages on diskette now). You have to grovel around to find them though since they are `hidden' files and arganized in sub-directories based on the font package number or first letter (I forget which) regards, berthold. 18-Jun-1997 16:20:30-GMT,1503;000000000001 Received: from cs.sfu.ca (cs.sfu.ca [142.58.111.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22811 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:16:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (oneill@alonzo [199.60.3.17]) by cs.sfu.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05690; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:16:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Melissa O'Neill" Received: (oneill@localhost) by alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (8.7.6/8.6.12) id JAA28444; Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199706181616.JAA28444@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: hidden composites To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 09:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-Reply-To: <199706181437.KAA11389@kauai.ai.mit.edu> from "Berthold K.P. Horn" at Jun 18, 97 10:37:20 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Berthold writes: > The AFM files for Adobe fonts are most conveniently found on the > `Type on Call' (TOC 4.1) CD-ROM (which is also the most convenient > way of buying there fonts - in fact its hard to get some packages > on diskette now). You have to grovel around to find them though > since they are `hidden' files and arganized in sub-directories > based on the font package number or first letter (I forget which) Unless it happens to be a multiple-master font, where you get a big fat zero on the TOC CD. (Well, you do get an MMM file, but Adobe refuses to document those.) Melissa. 25-Jun-1997 21:06:24-GMT,1336;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27258; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:06:17 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA00390; Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 15:06:16 -0600 (MDT) To: Metod Kozelj Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: tex-fonts mailing list In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 13 Jun 1997 16:15:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: I've updated your tex-fonts mailing list address to metod.kozelj@rzs-hm.si. ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB Internet: beebe@math.utah.edu University of Utah URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA ======================================================================== 4-Jul-1997 8:28:56-GMT,721;000000000011 Received: from mail.u-net.net (mail.u-net.net [194.119.128.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20459 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [194.119.133.151] ([194.119.133.151]) by mail.u-net.net with ESMTP id <30175-14244>; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:45:47 +0100 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 05:37:12 +0100 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: How to join? Hello, Can you send me details of how to join the tex-fonts mailing list please? Rowland. 5-Jul-1997 8:20:17-GMT,1562;000000000001 Received: from mail.u-net.net (mail.u-net.net [194.119.128.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA17424 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:20:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [194.119.133.84] ([194.119.133.84]) by mail.u-net.net with ESMTP id <29918-20982>; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 09:12:53 +0100 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Illegal-Object: Syntax error in References: value found on mail.u-net.net: References: Your message of Fri, 4 Jul 1997 05: 37: 12 +0100 ^ ^ ^-illegal reference separator | \-illegal reference separator \-illegal reference separator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:39:13 +0100 To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: How to join? Thanks :-) Rowland. >You are now on the tex-fonts mailing list; back issues are available >in > ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/mail/tex-fonts*.* > >======================================================================== >Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 >Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 >Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB Internet: beebe@math.utah.edu >University of Utah URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe >Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA >======================================================================== 10-Jul-1997 14:25:11-GMT,3927;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA15448; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:22:26 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA29195; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:22:24 -0600 (MDT) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: TrueType to BDF converter available Message-ID: Folks, this posting about a TrueType to BDF converter may be of some interest to you. I have found relatively little software available for dealing with TrueType fonts. Since this code is based on the FreeType TT renderer, perhaps one of you will be able to adapt it to produce TeX GF or PK fonts. --------------- Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (A17-254-0-52.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05091 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from unicode.org (unicode2.apple.com [17.254.3.212]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA41010; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:51:28 -0700 Received: by unicode.org (NX5.67g/NX3.0S) id AA01523; Wed, 9 Jul 97 21:46:33 -0700 Message-Id: <9707100446.AA01523@unicode.org> Errors-To: uni-bounce@unicode.org X-Uml-Sequence: 3174 (1997-07-10 04:46:29 GMT) To: Multiple Recipients of Reply-To: Mark Leisher From: "Unicode Discussion" Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:46:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TrueType to BDF converter available For those of you doing font work (Unicode or otherwise) for Unix, I just put together a TT->BDF converter based on the FreeType TT renderer. The source code is now part of the FreeType distribution which is available from: ftp://ftp.physiol.med.tu-muenchen.de/pub/freetype/devel/freetype-current.tar.gz I have pre-built binaries available from: [Binaries: Linux, Solaris, SunOS] ftp://crl.nmsu.edu/CLR/multiling/General/ttf2bdf-1.0-ELF.tar.gz ftp://crl.nmsu.edu/CLR/multiling/General/ttf2bdf-1.0-SOLARIS.tar.gz ftp://crl.nmsu.edu/CLR/multiling/General/ttf2bdf-1.0-SUNOS.tar.gz The resulting BDF fonts still have a few minor problems (to be fixed in later ttf2bdf versions), but loading them into the XmBDFEditor and saving them will automatically fix those problems. The XmBDFEditor is available in source and binary form in the same directory as the ttf2bdf binaries. For those interested in this sort of thing, I would like to mention that the FreeType renderer will soon be available as an additional renderer for X11R6 and it's font server. I'll be announcing the release on comp.fonts and comp.windows.x near the end of this month after a testing period. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- mleisher@crl.nmsu.edu Mark Leisher "A designer knows he has achieved perfection Computing Research Lab not when there is nothing left to add, but New Mexico State University when there is nothing left to take away." Box 30001, Dept. 3CRL -- Antoine de Saint-Exup éry Las Cruces, NM 88003 ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB Internet: beebe@math.utah.edu University of Utah URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA ======================================================================== 10-Jul-1997 23:42:51-GMT,1290;000000000001 Received: from www.nsysu.edu.tw (www.nsysu.edu.tw [140.117.11.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28941; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:39:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (werner@localhost) by www.nsysu.edu.tw (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id HAA19093; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:39:45 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:39:45 +0800 (CST) From: Werner Lemberg Reply-To: Werner Lemberg To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: TrueType to BDF converter available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > Folks, this posting about a TrueType to BDF converter may > be of some interest to you. I have found relatively little > software available for dealing with TrueType fonts. Since > this code is based on the FreeType TT renderer, perhaps one > of you will be able to adapt it to produce TeX GF or PK fonts. Well, I'll do this in the near future. I have already written a ttf2pk converter for CJK fonts, and I plan to update it to FreeType soon. Werner 11-Jul-1997 10:22:47-GMT,1586;000000000011 Received: from hermes.hrz.uni-giessen.de (hermes.hrz.uni-giessen.de [134.176.2.15]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA11884 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:17:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from d3.hrz.uni-giessen.de by hermes.hrz.uni-giessen.de; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:17:19 +0200 Received: from localhost by d3.hrz.uni-giessen.de (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03 JLUG d3 U437398) id AA16999; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:17:18 +0200 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:17:17 +0200 (CET) From: Jan P Glaescher X-Sender: g61011@d3.hrz.uni-giessen.de To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: sites for downloading afm-files Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by csc-sun.math.utah.edu id EAA11885 Hi psfonts experts, I noticed in the `README´ of `fontname´ that you are one of the maintainers of this naming scheme. Since there are fontname lists of the Digital Typeface Corporation and Bitstream included, I thought that you might know a web of ftp site where I can download the matching afm-files for my psfonts of these two companies, which I unfortunately only have in the *.pfb and *.pfm format. I would really appreciate _any_ hints on this question --- even the home site of the Digital Typeface Corporation would help since the common search engines were not able to find this site on the web. Thanks for any hints in advance, Jan 11-Jul-1997 13:54:26-GMT,2546;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA15948; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:50:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA05817; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:50:50 -0600 (MDT) To: Jan P Glaescher Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: sites for downloading afm-files In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:17:17 +0200 (CET) Message-ID: Jan P Glaescher writes today: >> I thought that you might know a web of ftp site where >> I can download the matching afm-files for my psfonts of these >> two companies, [Digital Typeface Corporation and Bitstream] >> which I unfortunately only have in the *.pfb and *.pfm format. I don't believe that we can do that legally. Unlike Adobe's AFM files, which just begin Comment Copyright (c) 1989 Adobe Systems Incorporated. All rights reserved. and which Adobe makes freely available on their Web server, and on the Type-on-Call CD-ROMs, Bitstream is more restrictive: Comment Copyright 1987-1992 as an unpublished work by Bitstream Inc., Cambridge, MA. Comment All rights reserved Comment Confidential and proprietary to Bitstream Inc. Comment Bitstream is a registered trademark of Bitstream Inc. ... Notice Copyright 1987-1992 as an unpublished work by Bitstream Inc. All rights reserved. Confidential. However, Bitstream fonts are priced exceedingly reasonably, and they offer 500+ fonts on a CD-ROM. Details, and addresses, can be found at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/bitstream.html I have no information at present about fonts from Digital Typeface Corporation. ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB Internet: beebe@math.utah.edu University of Utah URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA ======================================================================== 11-Jul-1997 15:24:49-GMT,1230;000000000001 Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA18093 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from u1.cs.umb.edu by cs.umb.edu with SMTP id AA19163 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu); Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:20:09 -0400 From: "K. Berry" Received: (from kb@localhost) by u1.cs.umb.edu (8.8.0/8.8.0) id LAA24185; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707111520.LAA24185@u1.cs.umb.edu> To: Jan.P.Glaescher@psychol.uni-giessen.de Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: sites for downloading afm-files fontname lists of the Digital Typeface Corporation and Bitstream included, I thought that you might know a web of ftp site where Sorry, I wrote all the information I had in those files. I can download the matching afm-files for my psfonts of these two companies, which I unfortunately only have in the *.pfb and *.pfm format. I think there are programs that are able to generate afm files from pfb and/or pfm, but unfortunately I don't have any specific pointers. Maybe someone else on this list can help more. 11-Jul-1997 15:24:49-GMT,1230;000000000001 Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA18093 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from u1.cs.umb.edu by cs.umb.edu with SMTP id AA19163 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu); Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:20:09 -0400 From: "K. Berry" Received: (from kb@localhost) by u1.cs.umb.edu (8.8.0/8.8.0) id LAA24185; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707111520.LAA24185@u1.cs.umb.edu> To: Jan.P.Glaescher@psychol.uni-giessen.de Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: sites for downloading afm-files fontname lists of the Digital Typeface Corporation and Bitstream included, I thought that you might know a web of ftp site where Sorry, I wrote all the information I had in those files. I can download the matching afm-files for my psfonts of these two companies, which I unfortunately only have in the *.pfb and *.pfm format. I think there are programs that are able to generate afm files from pfb and/or pfm, but unfortunately I don't have any specific pointers. Maybe someone else on this list can help more. 11-Jul-1997 20:46:33-GMT,1837;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA26127 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA01602; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:43:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id WAA16767; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:51:54 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:51:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707112051.WAA16767@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: "K. Berry" Cc: Jan.P.Glaescher@psychol.uni-giessen.de, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: sites for downloading afm-files In-Reply-To: <199707111520.LAA24185@u1.cs.umb.edu> References: <199707111520.LAA24185@u1.cs.umb.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Concernant « Re: sites for downloading afm-files », K. Berry écrit : > I think there are programs that are able to generate afm files from pfb > and/or pfm, but unfortunately I don't have any specific pointers. > Maybe someone else on this list can help more. > under dos &/or unix, you have getmetric that does a very good job (found on ctan in the archive t1tools (or t1utils?) someone told me too that there exist some tools from y&y that do this kind of things. The usual disclaimer is that when you buy your fonts, you should be able to ask for the afm (or it should be automatically supplied). best wishes Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 18-Jul-1997 21:38:19-GMT,3784;000000000001 Received: from june.cs.washington.edu (june.cs.washington.edu [128.95.1.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24039 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (mackay@localhost) by june.cs.washington.edu (8.8.5+CS/7.2ju) id OAA02295; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:33:53 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:33:53 -0700 From: mackay@cs.washington.edu (Pierre MacKay) Message-Id: <199707182133.OAA02295@june.cs.washington.edu> To: info-tex@shsu.edu, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, cthiele@ccs.carleton.ca, mackay@cs.washington.edu Subject: Ibycus4, an upgrade of the Ibygrk Greek package The Ibycus4 package (the name is a intended as a tribute to David Packard's Ibycus system, but this package has no connection with any work done by the Packard Humanities Institute) is available on osman.classics.washington.edu [128.95.170.63] in ~ftp/pub/tex, in 4 forms. 1. iby4str is a streamed SVR4 (Solaris) package, ready for installation 2, iby4str.gz is the same thing gzipped. There doesn't seem to be any way to zcat such a file and pipe it into pkgadd. gunzip has to be used as a separate operation/ 3. ibycus4.tar.gz is a SVR4 (Solaris) package in spool directory format if untarred into the directory /var/spool/pkg it is ready for pkgadd 4. ibycus4.zip is for non-Unix sites. It includes all the genuine files of Ibycus4 in an 8+3 TDS-conformant style, but not the symbolic links that make life pleasanter in the Unix world. Changes in setwidths have been made, so spacing will be a bit different (and better, I hope). Some small improvements in input coding are made (the 4 distinguishes the new input coding from the old 3 coding). For other details see the README file. Here is the relevant extract from the README file. Ibycus3 is what was previously known as ibygrk. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CODINGS ARE NOT COMPATIBLE WITH IBYCUS3 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% I have tried to keep incompatible codings to the minimum but the ibycus3 versions of the following were extremely undesirable. These are all simplifications of ibycus3 coding. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% The mark of elision is ' or {'} (the form in braces may be needed to prevent ' from being read as an accent). Single quotes may be provided by ` {`} and ' {'}, (isolate them in braces if necessary). Double quotes are `` {``} and '' {''} (isolate in braces if necessary). < and > are the angle brackets used for conjectural supplements. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% The prefix in Karl Berry's font-naming scheme is "fib". The full naming scheme is provided in the README file. -- %=======================================================================% | N O T I C E | | Please note the changes in address and telephone number below. | | There is no Northwest Computing Support Center any longer. | | Until further notice, I shall be continuing to provide tape | | distributions and whatever other services I can. | | | %=======================================================================% Email concerned with UnixTeX distribution software may be sent To: mackay@cs.washington.edu Pierre A. MacKay Smail: Department of Classics Emeritus Druid for Denny Hall, Mail Stop DH-10 Unix-flavored TeX University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 543-2268 (Message recorder) 20-Jul-1997 21:02:50-GMT,1377;000000000001 Received: from cs.umb.edu (root@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12298 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 14:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from u2.cs.umb.edu by cs.umb.edu with SMTP id AA28811 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tex-archive@math.utah.edu); Sun, 20 Jul 1997 16:59:36 -0400 From: "K. Berry" Received: (from kb@localhost) by u2.cs.umb.edu (8.8.0/8.8.0) id QAA02071; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 16:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 16:59:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707202059.QAA02071@u2.cs.umb.edu> To: various-TeX-mailing-lists@cs.umb.edu Subject: TeX directory structure (tds) 0.9993 available Reply-To: twg-tds@tug.cs.umb.edu Another draft (0.9994) of the TeX Directory Structure (TDS) standards document is now available from: http://www.tug.org/tds/ ftp://ftp.tug.org/tex/tds.tar.gz The DVI file is: ftp://ftp.tug.org/tex/tds/tds.dvi Soon it will be on CTAN as well, in the `tds' directory. (finger ctan@mail.tug.org for a list of CTAN hosts.) The only differences from 0.9993 are a revised section on AmiWeb2c from the author and some editorial changes. If no problems arise from the discussion at the upcoming TUG 97 meeting (http://www.tug.org/tug97/), this will become version 1.0. Please send comments to twg-tds@mail.tug.org. kb@mail.tug.org, for the TDS committee 22-Jul-1997 0:20:10-GMT,1547;000000000001 Received: from hubert.wustl.edu (ats@eliot226.wuh.wustl.edu [128.252.105.226]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA02794 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:17:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from ats@localhost) by hubert.wustl.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA26730; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:17:19 -0500 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Complete Spectrum font support? Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Alan Shutko Date: 21 Jul 1997 19:17:19 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 23 I just purchased the SpectrumMT fonts from Adobe and noticed that I have a more complete set than is available in ctan/fonts/psfonts. I have the complete set listed in monotype.map: msmr8r SpectrumMT MSpectrum msmr8x SpectrumMT-Expert msmrc8r SpectrumMT-SC msmri7d SpectrumMT-ItalicOsF msmri8r SpectrumMT-Italic MSpectrum-Italic msmri8x SpectrumMT-ItalicExpert msms7d SpectrumMT-SemiBoldOsF msms8r SpectrumMT-SemiBold MSpectrum-SemiBold msms8x SpectrumMT-SemiBoldExpert Tried to install them on teTeX with those names and found that th bundled fontinst didn't use them. Could someone tell me how to create TeX font files for these fonts (including the hacked fontinst in the ctan/fonts/psfonts/tools dir, if needed) and distribute them so that others need not face the same frustration? -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted All my friends and I are crazy. That's the only thing that keeps us sane. 22-Jul-1997 0:46:46-GMT,2572;000000000001 Received: from june.cs.washington.edu (june.cs.washington.edu [128.95.1.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03549 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:45:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (mackay@localhost) by june.cs.washington.edu (8.8.5+CS/7.2ju) id RAA29304; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:45:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:45:42 -0700 From: mackay@cs.washington.edu (Pierre MacKay) Message-Id: <199707220045.RAA29304@june.cs.washington.edu> To: info-tex@shsu.edu, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, cthiele@ccs.carleton.ca, mackay@cs.washington.edu In-reply-to: <199707182133.OAA02295@june.cs.washington.edu> (mackay@cs.washington.edu) Subject: levygrk--Silvio Levy's source as a SVR4 package. Because they may be need for font generation in Ibycus4, I have reshaped Silvio Levy's source files into a package. I have changed nothing in these files, which come from a 1994 archive on CTAN. Only the arrangement into a package is new. A couple of *.tex filenames had to be massaged into 8+3 limits for the Intel world. Symbolic links attach them to their original names. 1. levystr is a streamed SVR4 (Solaris) package, ready for installation 2, levystr.gz is the same thing gzipped. There doesn't seem to be any way to zcat such a file and pipe it into pkgadd. gunzip has to be used as a separate operation. 3. levygrk.tar.gz is a SVR4 (Solaris) package in spool directory format. If untarred into the directory /var/spool/pkg it is ready for pkgadd 4. levygrk.zip is for non-Unix sites. It includes all the genuine files of levygrk in an 8+3 TDS-conformant style, but not the symbolic links that make life pleasanter in the Unix world. -- %=======================================================================% | N O T I C E | | Please note the changes in address and telephone number below. | | There is no Northwest Computing Support Center any longer. | | Until further notice, I shall be continuing to provide tape | | distributions and whatever other services I can. | | | %=======================================================================% Email concerned with UnixTeX distribution software may be sent To: mackay@cs.washington.edu Pierre A. MacKay Smail: Department of Classics Emeritus Druid for Denny Hall, Mail Stop DH-10 Unix-flavored TeX University of Washington Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 543-2268 (Message recorder) 25-Jul-1997 14:32:45-GMT,2668;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA11301 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:28:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.15) with ESMTP id KAA25657; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:27:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id KAA25125; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707251427.KAA25125@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: Jan.P.Glaescher@psychol.uni-giessen.de In-reply-to: (message from Jan P Glaescher on Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:17:17 +0200 (CET)) cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: sites for downloading afm-files Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:17:17 +0200 (CET) From: Jan P Glaescher X-Sender: g61011@d3.hrz.uni-giessen.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by life.ai.mit.edu id GAA07430 Hi psfonts experts, I noticed in the `README´ of `fontname´ that you are one of the maintainers of this naming scheme. Since there are fontname lists of the Digital Typeface Corporation and Bitstream included, I thought that you might know a web of ftp site where I can download the matching afm-files for my psfonts of these two companies, which I unfortunately only have in the *.pfb and *.pfm format. I would really appreciate _any_ hints on this question --- even the home site of the Digital Typeface Corporation would help since the common search engines were not able to find this site on the web. Thanks for any hints in advance, Jan AFAIK, DTC is out of business. AFAI remember they made low grade rip-offs of mostly BitStream fonts, which themselves may be of dubious heritage, according to some ("We did contact the designers and offered to pay them royalties, but they wanted too much..."). Why to you need the AFMs? If you just need TFMs you may be able to generate these in your TeX system after installing the fonts using ATM. Perhaps you can use Y&Y's Font Manipulation Package. It includes PFAtoAFM and PFMtoAFM, which together construct as complete and accurate an AFM file as you can get if you don't have the original. Regards, Berthold. DISCLAIMER: I have connections with http://www.YandY.com 25-Jul-1997 14:55:58-GMT,1012;000000000001 Received: from rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de (rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.22.63]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA11935 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from fb0430.mathematik.th-darmstadt.de (daemon@fb0430.mathematik.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.2.30]) by rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de (8.6.12/8.6.12.1ms) with ESMTP id QAA64949 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:55:51 +0200 Received: from fb0407.mathematik.th-darmstadt.de by fb0430.mathematik.th-darmstadt.de (1.37.109.20/Server-1.5/HRZ-THD) id AA286952550; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:55:51 +0200 Received: by fb0407.mathematik.th-darmstadt.de (1.37.109.20/Client-1.5/HRZ-THD) id AA121682547; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:55:47 +0200 From: Li Jinming Message-Id: <199707251455.AA121682547@fb0407.mathematik.th-darmstadt.de> To: owner-tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:55:47 MESZ X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.19] unsub 4-Aug-1997 8:29:06-GMT,1454;000000000001 Received: from ixgate02.dfnrelay.d400.de (ixgate02.dfnrelay.d400.de [193.174.248.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA01229 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 02:16:11 -0600 (MDT) X400-Received: by mta d400relay in /PRMD=dfnrelay/ADMD=d400/C=de/; Relayed; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:15:34 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UNI-SIEGEN/ADMD=D400/C=DE/; converted (ia5-text); Relayed; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:11:37 +0200 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:11:37 +0200 X400-Originator: FLIESSBACH@PHYSIK.uni-siegen.d400.de X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=UNI-SIEGEN/ADMD=D400/C=DE/;2215111004081997/A38701/OSI4SI] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: 11B8228B0E00 From: Fliessbach (Tel +49 271 740 4156) Message-ID: <2215111004081997/A38701/OSI4SI/11B8228B0E00*@MHS> To: tex-fonts (Non Receipt Notification Requested) (IPM Return Requested) Subject: New ptm??.pk fonts Dear Sir: Your new ptm?8r.pk are quite useful for previewing my Latex-files (using times fonts). Thanks for making these fonts available to the public. In order to get ligatures etc. correct it seems, however, that I needed a file like '8renc.def' replacing t1enc.def. (Presently, I am using the font substitution ptm?8t -> ptm?8r). Can you help me? Many thanks in advance, yours sincerely, Torsten Fliessbach e-mail: fliessbach@physik.uni-siegen.de 4-Aug-1997 9:26:00-GMT,1591;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02536 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 03:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA27151 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:14:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:15:14 +0100 Received: from knott.elsevier.co.uk (knott.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.165]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05799; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:15:10 +0100 (BST) Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by knott.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA10858; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:20:13 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:20:13 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199708040920.KAA10858@knott.elsevier.co.uk> From: Sebastian Rahtz To: FLIESSBACH@PHYSIK.uni-siegen.d400.de Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: New ptm??.pk fonts In-Reply-To: <2215111004081997/A38701/OSI4SI/11B8228B0E00*@MHS> References: <2215111004081997/A38701/OSI4SI/11B8228B0E00*@MHS> > In order to get ligatures etc. correct it seems, however, that I needed > a file like '8renc.def' replacing t1enc.def. (Presently, I am using the > font substitution ptm?8t -> ptm?8r). Can you help me? > no, you need ptm?8t *virtual fonts* to manage the process. Dont use 8r fonts directly, and dont make a substitution. Sebastian 4-Aug-1997 11:54:27-GMT,1088;000000000001 Received: from ixgate02.dfnrelay.d400.de (ixgate02.dfnrelay.d400.de [193.174.248.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA05051 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 05:48:55 -0600 (MDT) X400-Received: by mta d400relay in /PRMD=dfnrelay/ADMD=d400/C=de/; Relayed; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:48:49 +0200 X400-Received: by /PRMD=UNI-SIEGEN/ADMD=D400/C=DE/; converted (ia5-text); Relayed; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 14:44:52 +0200 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 14:44:52 +0200 X400-Originator: FLIESSBACH@PHYSIK.uni-siegen.d400.de X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=UNI-SIEGEN/ADMD=D400/C=DE/;8714431304081997/A38935/OSI4SI] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: 11B8236B0D00 From: Fliessbach (Tel +49 271 740 4156) Message-ID: <8714431304081997/A38935/OSI4SI/11B8236B0D00*@MHS> To: TEX-FONTS (Non Receipt Notification Requested) (IPM Return Requested) Subject: New ptm??.pk fonts Dear Sebastian, thank you for your extremely prompt answer (use *.vf). It works. Torsten 7-Aug-1997 15:53:21-GMT,1637;000000000001 Received: from iwr1.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (iwr1.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.104.40]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA25188 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:43:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from giotto.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (giotto.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.107.82]) by iwr1.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA27475 for ; Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:43:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by giotto.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (931110.SGI/950628.SGImailhost) for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu id AA25226; Thu, 7 Aug 97 17:43:07 +0200 From: "Hermann Lauer" Message-Id: <9708071743.ZM25224@giotto.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:43:06 -0600 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2.RR) X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: hlcdy.tfm (Lucida psfonts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Hello TeX-Users, I recognized yesterday that the file: ftp://ftp.dante.de/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/bh/lumath/tfm/hlcdy.tfm (CTAN-server) is not a tfm file, but a uuencoded file. I uudecoded it and can use it now as a tfm File, but I have no idea wether it's correct now or not. Or should I use other Files for the lucida Fonts ? Thanks for any help. Hermann P.S: Please reply via direct email, as I'm not on the list. -- Hermann Lauer Bildverarbeitungsgruppe des Interdiziplinaeren Zentrums fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen, Universitaet Heidelberg INF 368; 69120 Heidelberg; Tel: (06221)548826 Fax: (06221)545224 Email: Hermann.Lauer@iwr.uni-heidelberg.de 8-Aug-1997 8:56:14-GMT,1722;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA16912 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 02:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27188 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:47:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:46:35 +0100 Received: from knott.elsevier.co.uk (knott.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.165]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11511; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:46:33 +0100 (BST) Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by knott.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA25649; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:53:02 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 09:53:02 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199708080853.JAA25649@knott.elsevier.co.uk> From: Sebastian Rahtz To: Hermann.Lauer@IWR.Uni-Heidelberg.De Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: hlcdy.tfm (Lucida psfonts) In-Reply-To: <9708071743.ZM25224@giotto.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <9708071743.ZM25224@giotto.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> Hermann Lauer writes: > ftp://ftp.dante.de/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/bh/lumath/tfm/hlcdy.tfm > > (CTAN-server) is not a tfm file, but a uuencoded file. I uudecoded it and can > use it now as a tfm File, but I have no idea wether it's correct now or not. well dang so it is. my fault. i have kicked a CTAN re-install to update it > Or should I use other Files for the lucida Fonts ? no, that is the right metric file (after uudecoding and renaming) Sebastian 9-Aug-1997 1:33:08-GMT,1550;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07551 for ; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.15) with ESMTP id VAA06028; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id VAA00373; Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:30:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199708090130.VAA00373@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: Hermann.Lauer@IWR.Uni-Heidelberg.De CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <9708071743.ZM25224@giotto.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de> (Hermann.Lauer@IWR.Uni-Heidelberg.De) Subject: Re: hlcdy.tfm (Lucida psfonts) Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu From: "Hermann Lauer" Hello TeX-Users, I recognized yesterday that the file: ftp://ftp.dante.de/tex-archive/fonts/psfonts/bh/lumath/tfm/hlcdy.tfm (CTAN-server) is not a tfm file, but a uuencoded file. I uudecoded it and can use it now as a tfm File, but I have no idea wether it's correct now or not. Or should I use other Files for the lucida Fonts ? Actually, the best way to use the Lucida fonts is with the metrics that come with the fonts. That way you avoid needing to download yet another branch of CTAN (unless you are talking about the old Adobe Lucida maybe?) Regards, Berthold. 11-Aug-1997 13:05:02-GMT,1378;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA08556; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:04:46 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA28344; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:04:45 -0600 (MDT) To: Juan F C dos Santos Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: request In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 9 Aug 1997 19:03:58 -0300 (GMT-3:00) Message-ID: You are now on the tex-fonts mailing list; back issues are available in ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/mail/tex-fonts*.* ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB Internet: beebe@math.utah.edu University of Utah URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Salt Lake City, UT 84112, USA ======================================================================== 25-Aug-1997 12:13:51-GMT,714;000000000001 Received: from bueno.newmex.com (bueno.newmex.com [206.183.203.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA02415 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 06:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.183.203.104] by bueno.newmex.com via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA16895; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 06:04:22 -0600 X-Sender: rollo@newmex.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 05:45:18 -0600 To: Font mailing list From: Roland Silver Subject: subscribe How can I subscribe to this mailing list? -- Rollo Silver 25-Aug-1997 17:36:31-GMT,2352;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09464; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:36:00 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08077; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:35:59 -0600 (MDT) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: New UNIX utilities for Adobe Multiple Master Fonts Message-ID: This just appeared on the Imprint mailing list: >> ... >> From: Imprint@macline.com (Imprint) >> Reply-To: Imprint@macline.com (Imprint) >> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:52:47 -0500 >> Subject: IMPRINT Vol. 1, No. 8 >> ... >> UNIX utilities for Adobe Multiple Master Fonts. >> >> Preliminary versions of two free UNIX command-line tools, written by Eddie >> Kohler, are available for working with fonts in Adobe's Multiple Master >> format. >> mmafm creates a AFM file by interpolating at a given point in a Multiple >> Master Font's design space. mmpfb creates a PFB font by interpolating at a >> given point in a Multiple Master Font's design space. Both can handle >> fonts with intermediate masters, like Adobe Jenson. >> Both utilities require a C++ compiler -- g++-2.7.2 was used to develop the >> utilities -- but not the C++ libraries. >> Version 0.2 corrects a bug in previous versions. Source code for the >> utilities is located at >> http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/type/mmafm-0.2.tar.gz >> http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/type/mmpfb-0.2.tar.gz >> ... >> ... ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe 155 S 1400 E RM 233 Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA ======================================================================== 25-Aug-1997 17:39:52-GMT,1418;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09573; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:39:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA08103; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:39:50 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:39:50 -0600 (MDT) To: Roland Silver Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: subscribe In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 25 Aug 1997 05:45:18 -0600 Message-ID: You are now on the tex-fonts mailing list; back issues are available in ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/mail/tex-fonts*.* ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe 155 S 1400 E RM 233 Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA ======================================================================== 25-Aug-1997 18:00:30-GMT,1507;000000000001 Received: from oxmail4.ox.ac.uk (oxmail4.ox.ac.uk [163.1.2.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA09988 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:00:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mink.ox.ac.uk by oxmail4 with SMTP (PP); Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:00:11 +0100 Received: by mink.ox.ac.uk (MX V4.2 AXP) id 1; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:00:40 +0100 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:00:40 +0100 From: John Thomason To: beebe@math.utah.edu Message-ID: <009B9511.A4C0A8A5.1@mink.ox.ac.uk> Subject: UNDELIVERED MESSAGE --------------------------------------------------------------------- MAIL MESSAGE NOT DELIVERED TO FINAL RECIPIENT You have sent an email message to a username on the Oxford University Computing Services VAX system, which closed down on 31st July 1997. Message details: Sender: beebe@math.utah.edu Subject: New UNIX utilities for Adobe Multiple Master Fonts Addressee: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu+beebe@math.utah.edu An individual recipient username has not been identified. If you are a mailing list owner, email registration@oucs.ox.ac.uk with your @vax.oxford.ac.uk and @vax.ox.ac.uk addresses and an updated list will be sent back to you (please allow at least two weeks for this). If you know the name of the individual recipient, you could try our directory on WWW at URL http://www.ox.ac.uk/contact/ Do not reply to this message - your reply will be ignored. ---------------------------------------------------------- 26-Aug-1997 14:30:07-GMT,1342;000000000001 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA03607 for ; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from graves.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id aa10579; 26 Aug 97 15:30 +0100 Subject: Re: New UNIX utilities for Adobe Multiple Master Fonts To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:30:01 +0100 (BST) From: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: from "Nelson H. F. Beebe" at Aug 25, 97 11:35:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie Message-ID: <9708261530.aa09063@graves.maths.tcd.ie> > > This just appeared on the Imprint mailing list: > > >> UNIX utilities for Adobe Multiple Master Fonts. > >> Version 0.2 corrects a bug in previous versions. Source code for the > >> utilities is located at > >> http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/type/mmafm-0.2.tar.gz > >> http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/type/mmpfb-0.2.tar.gz Thanks for the info. (My version of Imprint was almost unreadable, as it was sent in some strange format -- Word ?) Are there any PD MM fonts available ? 26-Aug-1997 19:27:38-GMT,11035;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10769; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:27:37 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA17261; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:27:36 -0600 (MDT) To: Timothy Murphy Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: New UNIX utilities for Adobe Multiple Master Fonts In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:30:01 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: >> (My version of Imprint was almost unreadable, >> as it was sent in some strange format -- Word ?) I edited it to make it more readable; it was in some variant of MIME encoding that I see fairly often. >> Are there any PD MM fonts available ? Not as far as I know. Sebastian Rahtz used MM fonts for the LaTeX Graphics Companion book, so he, Alan Hoenig, Michel Goossens, and Yannis Haralambous are probably the leading TeX experts on Multiple Master fonts; perhaps they have heard of some font projects elsewhere than Adobe using such fonts. Here is what bibsearch turns up on the subject (from our 155K-entry bibliography collection): URL=ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/eleccomp.bib Line=792 @String{j-ELECT-COMPOSITION-IMAGING = "Electronic Composition and Imaging"} @Article{Dean:1992:MYT, author = "David Dean", title = "Multiplying Your Typographic Possibilities {Adobe Systems' Multiple Master} font format", journal = j-ELECT-COMPOSITION-IMAGING, volume = "6", number = "??", pages = "8--??", month = mar, year = "1992", ISSN = "0838-9535", bibdate = "Mon May 20 11:04:41 MDT 1996", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } URL=ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/epodd.bib Line=2680 @String{j-EPODD = "Electronic Pub\-lish\-ing\emdash{}Orig\-i\-na\-tion, Dissemination, and Design"} @Article{Andre:EPODD-6-3-115, author = "Jacques Andr{\'e} and Jakob Gonczarowski and Richard Southall", title = "Editorial: Special issue: {Proceedings of the Raster Imaging and Digital Typography Conference}", journal = j-EPODD, volume = "6", number = "3", pages = "115--116", month = sep, year = "1993", CODEN = "EPODEU", ISSN = "0894-3982", bibdate = "Thu Jun 2 10:04:26 1994", bibsource = "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/epodd.bib", abstract = "This issue of {\em Electronic Publishing\/} contains the papers presented during the third Raster Imaging and Digital Typography conference, held at Darmstadt, Germany, from 11 to 13 April 1994. Earlier conferences in the series took place in 1989 at Lausanne, Switzerland (organized by Roger D. Hersch, EPFL) and in 1991 at Boston, Massachussets (organized by Robert A. Morris, University of Massachussets at Boston). The corresponding proceedings are published by Cambridge University Press (see below). Digital typography is a relatively new field: the first commercial cathode-ray-tube photo\-composing machine appeared in 1966. Since that time, the field has been growing very fast, and is still active. During the RIDT'89 conference, emphasis was laid on the rasterisation of outline characters and on rendering techniques. RIDT'91 concentrated more on digital halftoning and on greyscale characters. However, both of these conferences bore in mind that beyond the mathematics of shapes and their rendering, printing types exist with their own aesthetic rules. That is why the presentations were made by a mix of technologists, scientists and designers. The RIDT'94 programme committee tried to attract a similar mix of papers when this conference was launched. As expected, the fields have moved on since the last conference, but we hope that the selected papers adequately exhibit the present state of the art in raster imaging and digital typography. In the recent past, formal research in digital typography has dealt with graphical algorithms, such as the rendering of outline characters and the generation of outline characters from bit-mapped drawings, to name but two. Present research focuses on models and methods for concise but precise font description and modelling. That trend began in industry with font interpolation programs and font systems such as Adobe Systems' Multiple Master technology. This research definitively belongs to computer science, with keywords such as {\em object orientation}, {\em regular expressions}, {\em string matching\/} and {\em shape parameterization}. A look at related fields, such as computer-aided design, shows that there still remains plenty of mathematical research to be done in digital typography. Mathematics is already used in CAD to express aesthetic criteria, both at the local (individual curves/surfaces) and the global level, for ensuring overall appearance and design consistency. \ldots{}.", } URL=ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/epodd.bib Line=2799 @String{j-EPODD = "Electronic Pub\-lish\-ing\emdash{}Orig\-i\-na\-tion, Dissemination, and Design"} @Article{Haralambous:EPODD-6-3-145, author = "Yannis Haralambous", title = "Parametrization of {PostScript} fonts through {\MF}\emdash an alternative to Adobe Multiple Master Fonts", journal = j-EPODD, volume = "6", number = "3", pages = "145--157", month = sep, year = "1993", CODEN = "EPODEU", ISSN = "0894-3982", bibdate = "Thu Jun 2 10:04:26 1994", bibsource = "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/epodd.bib", abstract = "In this paper we present a new method of parametrizing PostScript fonts in order to create font families. By changing parameter values one can obtain different weights, condensed or expanded versions, small caps as well as optically scaled fonts. The tool used to parametrize PostScript fonts is D.~E. Knuth's {\MF} program. Instead of designing a font from scratch, {\MF} is used as an extrapolator of existing PostScript fonts: out of the information contained in them we build a meta-font; for every choice of parameter values, special versions of {\MF} allow us to return to PostScript and produce a new PostScript font.", keywords = "Font design, PostScript, {\MF}", } URL=ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/font.bib Line=11391 @String{j-MACUSER = "MacUser"} @Article{Anonymous:1992:T, author = "Anonymous", title = "Type", journal = j-MACUSER, volume = "8", number = "10", pages = "205--??", month = oct, year = "1992", CODEN = "MCUSEY", ISSN = "0884-0997", bibdate = "Wed Feb 28 15:00:20 MST 1996", abstract = "Adobe's Multiple Master font technology may be the future of type. Here's how to explore it today.", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } URL=ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/font.bib Line=15013 @String{j-INFOWORLD = "InfoWorld"} @Article{Anonymous:1994:AWB, author = "Anonymous", title = "{ATM} 3.0 will bring multiple master font technology to {Windows}", journal = j-INFOWORLD, volume = "16", number = "18", pages = "19--??", month = may, year = "1994", CODEN = "INWODU", ISSN = "0199-6649", bibdate = "Wed Feb 28 15:00:20 MST 1996", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } URL=ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/font.bib Line=15029 @String{j-SERIF = "Serif: The Magazine of Type and Typography"} @Article{Anonymous:1994:BNF, author = "Anonymous", title = "Briefly Noted: {Font CDs -- Quickdraw GX -- Multiple Masters for Windows -- Ed Cleary -- Treacyfaces and Headliners International -- American Typecasting Fellowship -- Emigre's Whirligig Catalog -- Santa Cruz Book Show}", journal = j-SERIF, volume = "1", pages = "10--12", month = "Fall", year = "1994", ISSN = "1080-2070", bibdate = "Mon Nov 13 16:54:29 1995", bibsource = "ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/serif.bib", } URL=ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/font.bib Line=16881 @String{j-TUGboat = "{\TUB{}}"} @Article{Goossens:1995:UAT, author = "Michel Goossens", title = "{{Using {Adobe Type} 1 {Multiple Master} fonts with {\TeX}}}", journal = j-TUGboat, volume = "16", number = "3", pages = "253--258", month = Sep, year = "1995", } URL=ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/bib/font.bib Line=17691 @String{j-TUGboat = "{\TUB{}}"} @Article{Berdnikov:1996:CMT, author = "A. S. Berdnikov", title = "{{Computer Modern Typefaces} as {Multiple Master Fonts}}", journal = j-TUGboat, volume = "17", number = "2", pages = "115--119", month = Jun, year = "1996", } ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe 155 S 1400 E RM 233 Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA ======================================================================== 26-Aug-1997 19:29:34-GMT,2474;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10831; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:29:33 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA17265; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:29:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:29:32 -0600 (MDT) To: Timothy Murphy Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: More on Multiple Master fonts Message-ID: After sending of the last response with bibsearch results about Multiple Master fonts, I did a search in the OCLC Contents1st database, and turned up these; I'll add them to font.bib shortly: @String{j-U-LC = "U \& lc: The International Journal of Typographics"} @Article{Anonymous:1993:IAG, author = "Anonymous", title = "{ITC} Avant Garde Gothic is now a multiple master typeface", journal = j-U-LC, volume = "20", number = "1", pages = "52--??", month = "Spring", year = "1993", CODEN = "ULCCDC", ISSN = "0362-6245", bibdate = "Tue Aug 26 13:26:59 MDT 1997", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, OPTnote = "", searchkey = "ti:``multiple master''", } @Article{Anonymous:1993:TDM, author = "Anonymous", title = "Typing Direction: Multiple Master Typefaces", journal = "Art direction", volume = "XLV", number = "2", pages = "64--??", month = may, year = "1993", ISSN = "0004-3109", bibdate = "Tue Aug 26 13:26:59 MDT 1997", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, OPTnote = "", searchkey = "ti:``multiple master''", } ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe 155 S 1400 E RM 233 Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA ======================================================================== 27-Aug-1997 16:30:01-GMT,1065;000000000001 Received: from salmon.maths.tcd.ie (mmdf@salmon.maths.tcd.ie [134.226.81.11]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05446 for ; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:30:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from graves.maths.tcd.ie by salmon.maths.tcd.ie with SMTP id aa22155; 27 Aug 97 17:29 +0100 Subject: Re: More on Multiple Master fonts To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:29:57 +0100 (BST) From: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: from "Nelson H. F. Beebe" at Aug 26, 97 01:29:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tim@maths.tcd.ie Message-ID: <9708271729.aa00495@graves.maths.tcd.ie> > > After sending of the last response with bibsearch results > about Multiple Master fonts, I did a search in the OCLC > Contents1st database, and turned up these; I'll add them to > font.bib shortly: Thanks for the info. I'll look them up. Tim 4-Sep-1997 6:30:13-GMT,1900;000000000001 Received: from david.kulak.ac.be (david.kulak.ac.be [193.190.176.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA11067 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 00:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from david (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by david.kulak.ac.be (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23941 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 08:28:14 +0200 (MET DST) Sender: Paul.Igodt@kulak.ac.be Message-ID: <340E54FE.58CD@kulak.ac.be> Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:28:14 +0200 From: Paul Igodt Organization: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven Campus Kortrijk X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: using psfonts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear PSfonts-specialists, I wanted to try out, for the first time ever, the use of psnfss and of (some of) the psfonts used on the CTAN sites. I ftp-ed the necessary stuff from CTAN and tried to install properly, at least, what I thought I would need. I wanted to try the adobe/univers fonts. I prepared this minimal .tex file: ---------------------------------- \documentclass[11pt]{article} \usepackage{univers} \begin{document} \textsf De tekst zelf \end{document} ---------------------------------- Composing went fine. When asking dvips to treat the .dvi file, I used the "dvips -Ppun ..." command, which produces " dvips: ! Couldn't find header file punr8a.pfb " I cannot locate anywhere on our system this .pfb file however... Can anyone make a diagnosis and help in taking off with psfonts? Gratefully. Paul -- Prof. Dr. Paul Igodt KU Leuven Campus Kortrijk Universitaire Campus B-8500 Kortrijk (Belgium) Tel.: (+32) (0)56 24 61 37 Fax.: (+32) (0)56 24 69 99 E-mail: Paul.Igodt@kulak.ac.be http://www.kulak.ac.be/facult/wet/wiskunde/igodt/www.html 4-Sep-1997 7:36:52-GMT,1746;000000000001 Received: from ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (ifi.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.211.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA12304 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:35:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199709040735.JAA14107@isidor.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> Received: by isidor.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:35:13 +0200 (MET DST) From: Bernd Raichle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Paul Igodt Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: using psfonts In-Reply-To: <340E54FE.58CD@kulak.ac.be> References: <340E54FE.58CD@kulak.ac.be> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.1 On Thu, 4 September 1997 08:28:14 +0200, Paul Igodt writes: [...] > I wanted to try the adobe/univers fonts. [...] > When asking dvips to treat the .dvi file, I used the > > "dvips -Ppun ..." > command, which produces > > " dvips: ! Couldn't find header file punr8a.pfb " > > I cannot locate anywhere on our system this .pfb file however... > > Can anyone make a diagnosis and help in taking off with psfonts? [...] You have to _buy_ the Univers PostScript font sources, they are not (and can not be) included legally. Btw. you have to pay money for almost all fonts, only a few are for free. Best wishes, -bernd ____________________________________________________________________ Bernd Raichle "Le langage est source DANTE e.V., Koordinator `german.sty' de malentendus" email: german@dante.de (A. de Saint-Exupery) 4-Sep-1997 8:20:19-GMT,1327;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA13092 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 02:18:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA15028 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:18:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:14:30 +0100 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:11:38 +0100 Message-ID: <1545-Thu04Sep1997091138+0100-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Paul.Igodt@kulak.ac.be Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: using psfonts In-Reply-To: <340E54FE.58CD@kulak.ac.be> References: <340E54FE.58CD@kulak.ac.be> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.4 Exactly what I would expect. Univers is a commercial font which you have to buy, and install the .pfb files in a place where dvips can find them, named as per the Berry naming scheme you are nearly there; just either a) buy Univers, or b) rename/copy the font files you already own Sebastian 4-Sep-1997 12:04:34-GMT,1489;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA16954 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 05:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.16) with ESMTP id HAA11281; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id HAA10531; Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 07:56:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199709041156.HAA10531@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: Paul.Igodt@kulak.ac.be CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <340E54FE.58CD@kulak.ac.be> (message from Paul Igodt on Thu, 04 Sep 1997 08:28:14 +0200) Subject: Re: using psfonts Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu > I wanted to try out, for the first time ever, the use of psnfss and of (some of) the psfonts used on the CTAN sites. > I ftp-ed the necessary stuff from CTAN and tried to install properly, at least, what I thought I would need. > I wanted to try the adobe/univers fonts. To use a font, you need the font :-) Generally on IBM PC you would want the *.PFB file for the font and *.PFM for Windows and an *.AFM files. These are available from the font vendor. In your case Adobe. http://www.adobe.com You are not the first to be misled by the TeX book calling a TFM metric file a `font.' Regards, Berthold. 7-Sep-1997 22:08:00-GMT,2051;000000000001 Received: from hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (ats@wydo122.wuh.wustl.edu [128.252.232.122]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17829 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 16:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from ats@localhost) by hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA03987; Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:05:30 -0500 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Monotype Spectrum fonts From: Alan Shutko Date: 07 Sep 1997 17:05:27 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 39 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.0 I have the Monotype Spectrum Expert set fonts, and I'm trying to use the modified fontinst in the psfonts dir on CTAN to create the necessary TeX files to use them. Unfortunately, I must be naming the AFM files incorrectly, because things don't work after I copy everything in the right places. Here's the names I have for the AFM files, hoping that they match up with something: Directory /usr/lib/texmf/texmf/fonts/afm/monotype/spectrum/ msmr8a.afm msmrc8a.afm msmri8a.afm msms7d.afm msms8x.afm msmr8x.afm msmri7d.afm msmri8x.afm msms8a.afm The original names are: Directory /home/ats/psfonts/e*.afm ekexp___.afm ekio____.afm ekrg____.afm eksbo___.afm eksc____.afm eki_____.afm ekixp___.afm eksb____.afm eksbx___.afm I think that I've misnamed things, because I get these errors trying to use the font in LaTeX: (/usr/lib/texmf/texmf/tex/latex/spectrum/spectrum.sty) (resume-spectrum.aux) (/usr/lib/texmf/texmf/tex/latex/spectrum/OT1msm.fd)kpathsea: Running MakeTeXTFM msms7t.tfm MakeTeXTFM: Running mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; scrollmode; input msms7t This is METAFONT, Version 2.718 (C version 6.1) kpathsea: Running MakeTeXMF msms7t.mf ! I can't find file `msms7t.mf'. Actually, looking at it... I didn't get any 7t files out of fontinst. Any ideas why? (Sorry for the very confused message... I am quite confused about the naming.) -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted If you can't be good, be careful. If you can't be careful, give me a call. 8-Sep-1997 9:18:04-GMT,1554;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA29795 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 03:13:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08777 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:12:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:07:57 +0100 Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:09:38 +0100 Message-ID: <2848-Mon08Sep1997100938+0100-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: ats@acm.org Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Monotype Spectrum fonts In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.4 Alan Shutko writes: > MakeTeXTFM: Running mf \mode:=ljfour; mag:=1; scrollmode; input msms7t > This is METAFONT, Version 2.718 (C version 6.1) > > kpathsea: Running MakeTeXMF msms7t.mf > ! I can't find file `msms7t.mf'. > > Actually, looking at it... I didn't get any 7t files out of fontinst. > Any ideas why? > 7t names are almost certainly for virtual fonts. fontinst should have written you msms7t.vpl for you to compile using vptovf. did you make .vf files and install them sebastian 8-Sep-1997 14:31:08-GMT,1251;000000000001 Received: from hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (ats@wydo122.wuh.wustl.edu [128.252.232.122]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05438 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 08:28:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from ats@localhost) by hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA13240; Mon, 8 Sep 1997 09:28:10 -0500 To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Monotype Spectrum fonts References: <2848-Mon08Sep1997100938+0100-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: Alan Shutko Date: 08 Sep 1997 09:28:05 -0500 In-Reply-To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk's message of Mon, 8 Sep 1997 10:09:38 +0100 Message-ID: Lines: 14 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.0 >>>>> "S" == Sebastian Rahtz writes: S> 7t names are almost certainly for virtual fonts. fontinst should S> have written you msms7t.vpl for you to compile using vptovf. Doesn't look like it did. I'll have to go through and figure out why now. (I've had some troubles getting everything working, PATH and such, so it's probably something I left out.) -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted IBM: It's Bullshit Mommery 9-Sep-1997 8:11:33-GMT,830;000000000001 Received: from fast.fast.de (fast.fast.de [194.59.176.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA28913 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 02:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from UNUK.fast.de (unuk.fast.de [194.59.176.109]) by fast.fast.de (8.8.4/8.7.3-FAST) with SMTP id KAA11765 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 10:16:35 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970909100508.00799290@fast.de> X-Sender: ssc@fast.de X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 10:05:08 +0200 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu From: Steffen =?iso-8859-1?Q?Schw=E4rtzel?= Subject: Fonts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am having problems to figure out the abbreviations for the type1 BaKoMa fonts. Could you please help me. Thanx in advance ssc 9-Sep-1997 18:08:59-GMT,2299;000000000001 Received: from tug.cs.umb.edu (root@tug.cs.umb.edu [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11779 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:06:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from refuge.Colorado.EDU (root@refuge.Colorado.EDU [128.138.240.12]) by tug.cs.umb.edu (8.8.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id OAA15804 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 14:16:42 -0400 Received: from refuge.Colorado.EDU (jds@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by refuge.Colorado.EDU (8.8.7/8.8.7/UnixOps/Hesiod/(SDM)) with ESMTP id MAA26041 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 1997 12:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199709091806.MAA26041@refuge.Colorado.EDU> to: tex-fonts@tug.cs.umb.edu subject: font help Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:06:12 -0600 From: Justin D Slaughter Hello, I am having problems with fonts for LaTeX. I am trying to use the width class ultraexpanded with the small caps shape. I have found that the width ultraexpanded does not work for any shape. LaTeX does not like this and is substituting what I want for what I don't want. I have included a portion of my code and the error message. Justin ---------- This is a part of my code: ... \DeclareFixedFont{\jdsfont}{OT1}{cmr}{bux}{sc}{12} <--- this is line 11 ... \vspace{2mm} \hspace{-8mm} {\jdsfont{Examples}} \hrulefill \vspace{-2mm} ... \vspace{2mm} \hspace{-8mm} {\jdsfont{Questions}} \hrulefill \vspace{-2mm} ... -------- This is the error message I get: [jds]flatiron} latex resume This is TeX, Version 3.14159 (C version 6.1) (resume LaTeX2e <1996/12/01> patch level 1 Babel and hyphenation patterns for american, german, loaded. (/usr/local/TeX/texmf/tex/latex/base/article.cls Document Class: article 1996/10/31 v1.3u Standard LaTeX document class (/usr/local/TeX/texmf/tex/latex/base/size10.clo)) (/usr/local/TeX/texmf/tex/latex/base/newlfont.sty (/usr/local/TeX/texmf/tex/latex/base/latexsym.sty)) LaTeX Font Warning: Font shape `OT1/cmr/bux/sc' undefined (Font) using `OT1/cmr/m/n' instead on input line 11. (resume.aux) (/usr/local/TeX/texmf/tex/latex/base/omscmr.fd) [1] (resume.aux) LaTeX Font Warning: Some font shapes were not available, defaults substituted. ) Output written on resume.dvi (1 page, 4252 bytes). Transcript written on resume.log. 10-Sep-1997 8:46:50-GMT,1747;000000000001 Received: from tug.cs.umb.edu (root@tug.cs.umb.edu [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA00592 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by tug.cs.umb.edu (8.8.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id EAA16335 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 04:51:52 -0400 Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27110 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:40:50 +0100 (BST) Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:40:16 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 09:31:10 +0100 Message-ID: <5884-Wed10Sep1997093110+0100-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: jds@Colorado.EDU Cc: tex-fonts@tug.cs.umb.edu Subject: Re: font help In-Reply-To: <199709091806.MAA26041@refuge.Colorado.EDU> References: <199709091806.MAA26041@refuge.Colorado.EDU> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.4 Justin D Slaughter writes: > I am having problems with fonts for LaTeX. I am trying to use the width > class ultraexpanded with the small caps shape. I have found that the width well, thats easy to answer. just because LaTeX knows about the idea of ultraexpanded small caps, it doesnt follow that your font family (Computer Modern) implements that combination. use a font family that *does* have the shape you want! [1] Sebastian [1] no, i dont know of one, unless you use a Multiple Master font 12-Sep-1997 17:00:21-GMT,2312;000000000001 Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09386 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 10:54:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slip139-92-42-167.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-42-167.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.167]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA54490; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 16:53:59 GMT Message-Id: <199709121653.QAA54490@out2.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" , "CTAN announcements" Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 18:54:59 +0200 Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: LaTeX support for old german fonts A new and enhanced LaTeX support package for the old german fonts is now available in the CTAN directory macros/latex/contrib/supported/yfonts . The package yfonts.sty supports the old german fonts `Gotisch', `Fraktur', `Schwabacher' and `Initialen' designed by Yannis Haralambous. In contrast to oldgerm.sty the package provides a full *NFSS interface*, and it may be used in conjunction with *german.sty*. The package comes as a documented LaTeX source with an installation script and an example document. This software replaces my now obsolete package fraktur.sty, which has been removed. Major changes are: * support for the gothic font, too * various bug fixes * better documentation Greetings Walter Schmidt ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (1024 bits, keyID 69D36B8D): see pgp key fingerprint: 1C E5 A5 D8 B8 F7 E2 EF 36 55 69 EC D8 26 94 A9 ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (1024 bits, keyID 69D36B8D): see pgp key fingerprint: 1C E5 A5 D8 B8 F7 E2 EF 36 55 69 EC D8 26 94 A9 ********************************************************************* 12-Sep-1997 21:18:34-GMT,4471;000000000000 Received: from rztsun.rz.tu-harburg.de (rztsun.rz.tu-harburg.de [134.28.200.14]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA15415 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:18:20 +0200 (METDST) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours Message-Id: <199709122118.XAA15833@hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de> To: owner-tex-fonts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="XAA15833.874099100/hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de" Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (warning-timeout) This is a MIME-encapsulated message --XAA15833.874099100/hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de ********************************************** ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY ** ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE ** ********************************************** The original message was received at Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:00:57 +0200 (METDST) >From rztsun.rz.tu-harburg.de [134.28.200.14] ----- The following addresses have delivery notifications ----- (transient failure) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail: cannot append to /var/mail/sedb2102 mail: cannot create dead.letter 451 ... I/O error: Error 0 Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 5 days old --XAA15833.874099100/hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de Arrival-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:00:57 +0200 (METDST) Final-Recipient: RFC822; sedb2102@hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de Action: delayed Status: 4.5.0 Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:18:20 +0200 (METDST) Will-Retry-Until: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 19:00:57 +0200 (METDST) --XAA15833.874099100/hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de Content-Type: message/rfc822 Return-Path: owner-tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Received: from rztsun.rz.tu-harburg.de (rztsun.rz.tu-harburg.de [134.28.200.14]) by hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3) id TAA12695 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:00:57 +0200 (METDST) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 18:54:59 +0200 X400-Originator: owner-tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=net/ADMD=d400-gw/C=de/;<199709121653.QAA54490@out2.ibm.] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) Content-Identifier: LaTeX support... Alternate-Recipient: Allowed From: Walter Schmidt Message-ID: <199709121653.QAA54490@out2.ibm.net> To: tex-fonts , CTAN announcements Subject: LaTeX support for old german fonts Reply-To: Walter Schmidt X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 (OS/2 Warp) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A new and enhanced LaTeX support package for the old german fonts is now available in the CTAN directory macros/latex/contrib/supported/yfonts . The package yfonts.sty supports the old german fonts `Gotisch', `Fraktur', `Schwabacher' and `Initialen' designed by Yannis Haralambous. In contrast to oldgerm.sty the package provides a full *NFSS interface*, and it may be used in conjunction with *german.sty*. The package comes as a documented LaTeX source with an installation script and an example document. This software replaces my now obsolete package fraktur.sty, which has been removed. Major changes are: * support for the gothic font, too * various bug fixes * better documentation Greetings Walter Schmidt ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (1024 bits, keyID 69D36B8D): see pgp key fingerprint: 1C E5 A5 D8 B8 F7 E2 EF 36 55 69 EC D8 26 94 A9 ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (1024 bits, keyID 69D36B8D): see pgp key fingerprint: 1C E5 A5 D8 B8 F7 E2 EF 36 55 69 EC D8 26 94 A9 ********************************************************************* --XAA15833.874099100/hp00.rz.tu-harburg.de-- 23-Sep-1997 22:30:22-GMT,1421;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA12789; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:30:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA19732; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 16:30:20 -0600 (MDT) To: Kalpana Subramanian Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: subscribe In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 23 Sep 97 18:26:02 -0400 Message-ID: You are now on the tex-fonts mailing list; back issues are available in ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/mail/tex-fonts*.* ======================================================================== Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe 155 S 1400 E RM 233 Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA ======================================================================== 25-Sep-1997 12:46:44-GMT,1800;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29196 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29118 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:35:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:35:37 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:34:14 +0100 Message-ID: <9262-Thu25Sep1997133414+0100-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: emacs 19.34.4 (via feedmail 7 Q) From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: replacement CTAN fonts/psfonts/tools After a period of email battering, I have given in, and revamped (slightly) the tools I use to create PostScript font metrics for TeX. These are stored in fonts/psfonts/tools on CTAN. What I have done is: - generally clear up, and add some new targets to the Makefile - rewrite the remaining shell script in Perl - go over the Perl scripts, and make them work only with web2c 7.0 (ie they call kpsewhich) - test the whole thing under Windows NT, to get away from basic Unix dependency - put better messages into finst, my unofficial hack of fontinst - added my name and email address to finst files. The results are *UNCHANGED*, I sincerely hope. Prove me wrong, if you can. What I have _not_ done is: - alter the workings of finst in any way - added any new documentation - sorted out the remaining checksum issues which Piet T and I know so well I should add that I have no plans to write documentation. Sebastian 25-Sep-1997 17:31:00-GMT,3688;000000000001 Received: from rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de (rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.22.63]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05732 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 11:30:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (localhost) by rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de (8.6.12/8.6.12.1ms) with internal id TAA108010; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:30:56 +0200 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 19:30:56 +0200 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: warning: cannot send message for 4 hours Message-Id: <199709251730.TAA108010@rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> To: ********************************************** ** THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY ** ** YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE ** ********************************************** The original message was received at Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:27:47 +0200 >From sonne.darmstadt.gmd.de [141.12.62.20] ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- (transient failure) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... Deferred: Connection timed out with hp5.iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de. Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours Will keep trying until message is 3 days old ----- Original message follows ----- Return-Path: owner-tex-fonts@csc-sun.math.utah.edu Received: from sonne.darmstadt.gmd.de (sonne.darmstadt.gmd.de [141.12.62.20]) by rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de (8.6.12/8.6.12.1ms) with ESMTP id PAA93587 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:27:47 +0200 Received: from csc-sun.math.utah.edu (root@csc-sun.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) by sonne.darmstadt.gmd.de (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02542 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 15:27:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA29196 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 06:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29118 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:35:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:35:37 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 1997 13:34:14 +0100 Message-ID: <9262-Thu25Sep1997133414+0100-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: emacs 19.34.4 (via feedmail 7 Q) From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: replacement CTAN fonts/psfonts/tools After a period of email battering, I have given in, and revamped (slightly) the tools I use to create PostScript font metrics for TeX. These are stored in fonts/psfonts/tools on CTAN. What I have done is: - generally clear up, and add some new targets to the Makefile - rewrite the remaining shell script in Perl - go over the Perl scripts, and make them work only with web2c 7.0 (ie they call kpsewhich) - test the whole thing under Windows NT, to get away from basic Unix dependency - put better messages into finst, my unofficial hack of fontinst - added my name and email address to finst files. The results are *UNCHANGED*, I sincerely hope. Prove me wrong, if you can. What I have _not_ done is: - alter the workings of finst in any way - added any new documentation - sorted out the remaining checksum issues which Piet T and I know so well I should add that I have no plans to write documentation. Sebastian 2-Oct-1997 17:06:52-GMT,1606;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11794; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:06:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA06419; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:06:50 -0600 (MDT) To: Humberto Jose Bortolossi Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: subscription In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:47:34 -0300 (GRNLNDST) Message-ID: You are now on the tex-fonts mailing list; back issues are available in ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/mail/tex-fonts*.* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3-Oct-1997 14:01:13-GMT,5132;000000000001 Received: from tug.cs.umb.edu (root@tug.cs.umb.edu [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09147 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csc-sun.math.utah.edu (root@csc-sun.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) by tug.cs.umb.edu (8.8.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id KAA22345 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 10:03:52 -0400 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA09137; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:52:55 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA12157; Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:52:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 07:52:54 -0600 (MDT) To: daniel@zenon.mathstat.uottawa.ca (Daniel Daigle) Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu, tex-fonts@tug.cs.umb.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: metafont modes In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:22:14 -0400 Message-ID: >> My printer is a HP laserjet 6L, and there >> is no mode for it in the version of modes.mf which I have. >> Am I supposed to use "ljfive"? What is the best choice for me? >> How can I obtain the most recent version of modes.mf? The last release that I have installed here is modes.mf 3.2, dated Thu Nov 7 15:51:45 EST 1996 Karl Berry maintains that file, and announces new versions on this list, and possibly other lists. The CTAN archives (finger ctan@ftp.tex.ac.uk for a list) should have the new version within a few days of announcement. You can very likely use ljfive, ljfivemp, or ljfour with acceptable results. Remember that many laser printer vendors use the same engines (Canon and Ricoh are major manufacturers of such). We have 28 printers in my department, from several different manufacturers (Apple, Hewlett-Packard, Imagen, Lexmark, ...), and not once have I received a complaint about font quality arising from our use of ljfour as the standard mode on all of these models. Remember that users will often generate a PostScript file from a DVI file, then print it anywhere, or post it on the Web for printing at other sites. Thus, one cannot realistically expect the Metafont mode chosen to routinely match the printer finally used. The biggest difference in laser printer engines is white-writing versus black-writing (start with a black background and remove dots leaving letters shapes behind, or start with a white background and add dots to create letter shapes). Several Xerox and Ricoh engines are white-writing, and all Canon engines I know of are black-writing. Between these two classes, there can be significant differences in appearance: black-writing engine fonts on a white-writing engine usually look rather thin, and under magnification, the cause is evident. White-writing fonts on a black-writing engine will likely appear to dark. And don't forget individual printer density adjustments: earlier this week, I investigated a complaint about light output from one of our lab printers, and found that someone had reduced the toner intensity adjustment buried deep inside the printer. If you are really concerned about achieving the best appearance of your fonts, you might consider using outline fonts instead of bitmap fonts. There are two sets of Computer Modern fonts, the BaKoMa fonts, and the BlueSky/AMS fonts, both in the CTAN archives. The latter have had thousands of hours of work in hand tuning. However, I've used the BaKoMa fonts quite happily for some time (their release predated the other by a couple of years). By leaving the rasterization job until the file is inside the printer, you are more likely to get printer-tuned optimal appearance of fonts. The drawback is the larger size of such files (perhaps a factor of two, unless the driver supports font subsetting). There is a big payoff, however, if you want to convert them to PDF for viewing on the Web: the current versions (1, 2, 3) of Adobe Acrobat Reader do an abysmal job of displaying bitmap fonts, and a very good job of displaying outline fonts. Thus, I always recommend use of outline fonts for preparation of PDF files. Perhaps I can find some time to put up some examples of the two cases. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16-Oct-1997 20:47:00-GMT,2835;000000000001 Received: from pop.fallon.com (pop.fallon.com [204.73.73.4]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06185 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:42:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.146.33.52] (fm33-52.fallon.com [206.146.33.52] (may be forged)) by pop.fallon.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA17970 for ; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 15:44:01 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:42:36 -0600 From: "Dorian J. Cougias" Message-ID: To: "Tex Fonts" Subject: Worldwide Satellite Communications X-Mailer: eMerge 1.1.1 I need your help. I'm conducting an online web-based survey that I'd like your involvement in. Its about what we in the computer field think about cell phones becoming satellite phones, and global connectivity. Its not long, and its aimed at folks who are interested in, or are supporting, people who travel and want to stay connected. Its about us who support travelers. The study is being conducted on line, and by participating, you'll also be able to directly see the results there as well. Feel free to continue to drop by and see how it is shaping up. Who's it for? We aren't being paid for this. We are doing it for research. We are going to share our information with Iridium and anyone else who is asking (you can have it too). Will we sell the data? No. We will give it away to anyone who wants to look at it on the Internet. All you have to do is hit print or save and you have the results. Why should you participate? Because if you are like me, an IS manager, you probably think that worldwide communications either stinks or is almost impossible. There is a new player coming into the market and after talking with them a while, I think we should send them a message about what we believe. If we don't we are at fault if they build something we don't like. If they build something we don't feel will work, well then that's silly on their part. Is it anonymous? Yep. We aren't even going to ask for your name. No cookie tracking, no nothing. No follow up spam trying to sell you something. It's not about that. Can you refer others? Yes, especially if you live overseas. I hate it when American companies try to foist their beliefs on everyone in the world. I'm looking to get at least a couple of hundred responses within the next couple of days. -- If you are wondering, I have your name from either a business card, or one of the bizillion lists I belong to. No, you won't get further mail about this, so don't worry about asking to be taken off of a list. Thanks. The URL for entering information is:http://survey.fallon.com The URL for looking at the results is:http://survey.fallon.com/results.html --- Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it. 16-Oct-1997 23:26:00-GMT,1473;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10183; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:25:59 -0600 (MDT) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA11136; Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:25:58 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 17:25:58 -0600 (MDT) To: "Dorian J. Cougias" Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: SPAM: please stop! Message-ID: Do NOT send any further SPAM messages to the tex-fonts list! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20-Oct-1997 22:51:31-GMT,1531;000000000001 Received: from hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (ats@wydo122.wuh.wustl.edu [128.252.232.122]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA18649 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 16:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from ats@localhost) by hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id RAA09288; Mon, 20 Oct 1997 17:47:54 -0500 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Fontinst and expert fonts? X-Emacs: Emacs 20.2, MULE 3.0 (MOMIJINOGA) Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI MIME-Edit 0.88 "Tsurugi") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Alan Shutko Date: 20 Oct 1997 17:47:51 -0500 Message-ID: Lines: 25 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 I was playing with the modified version of fontinst (in CTAN:fonts/psfonts/tools/finst) to install my Spectrum Expert set in the 8r encoding. It doesn't appear to be noticing my expert fonts, which I've named msmr8x.afm msmri8x.afm msms8x.afm (as per monotype.map) since I'm not getting the ff, ffi, ffl ligatures. I'm also getting errors like this in my run Raw font written on msms8r.pl. (msms8r.mtx) (../../finst/8r.mtx) (../../finst/8r.etx) (../../finst/8r.etx Warning: \ligature for unknown slot `ffi'. Warning: \ligature for unknown slot `ffl'. Warning: \ligature for unknown slot `ff'. ) (../../finst/8r.etx) Font written on msms8r.pl. Anyone have ideas what I'm doing wrong? (I probably missnamed the afm files again... 8^) -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted IBM: Into Building Money 24-Oct-1997 0:06:05-GMT,1867;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA20901 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 1997 17:58:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [194.119.133.114] [194.119.133.114] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xOWyy-0004OR-00; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:48:04 +0100 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 00:53:40 +0100 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: Fontinst and expert fonts? >I was playing with the modified version of fontinst (in >CTAN:fonts/psfonts/tools/finst) to install my Spectrum Expert set in >the 8r encoding. It doesn't appear to be noticing my expert fonts, >which I've named > >msmr8x.afm msmri8x.afm msms8x.afm (as per monotype.map) > >since I'm not getting the ff, ffi, ffl ligatures. I'm also getting >errors like this in my run > >Raw font written on msms8r.pl. >(msms8r.mtx) (../../finst/8r.mtx) (../../finst/8r.etx) (../../finst/8r.etx >Warning: \ligature for unknown slot `ffi'. >Warning: \ligature for unknown slot `ffl'. >Warning: \ligature for unknown slot `ff'. >) (../../finst/8r.etx) >Font written on msms8r.pl. > >Anyone have ideas what I'm doing wrong? (I probably missnamed the afm >files again... 8^) >From the output above, I'd guess that it's noticing the expert founts, but doesn't know what to do with them. I don't know exactly how to solve the problem, but... You could try getting the latest version of fontinst 1.6 from CTAN which logs lots of accurate and useful information when you run it. And what fontinst file were you running fontinst on to try and install these founts? Rowland. 24-Oct-1997 17:23:48-GMT,2339;000000000001 Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA14641 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 11:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slip139-92-42-211.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-42-211.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.42.211]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA159368 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:18:55 GMT Message-Id: <199710241718.RAA159368@out2.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Fri, 24 Oct 97 18:34:12 +0200 Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: New font developments: OpenType Font Specification Hi, on the mailing list TYPO-L I've just found a message which might be interesting for us, too, since we've already discussed the subject `Open Type Fonts Specification': Daniel Will-Harris wrote: >Font foundries and designers have been vocal in their fear of font >embedding on the web, and now it seems their fears were >well-founded,at least in the case of Microsoft s new browser, Internet >Explorer 4. The browser s new OpenType font embedding feature has a >fatal security flaw that makes it easy for any user, even those >without technical knowledge, to capture embedded fonts from a web site >and install them into their system for use with all their software. No >one other than myself has yet uncovered the simple steps to do so and >I will not reveal the steps here, because I don t want people pirating >fonts. > >Microsoft knows about the problem and has stated it will do nothing to >correct it. > >You can read the details at http://news.i-us.com/wire/ Finally , let me mention another new www page http://www.typeright.org/feature4.html which deals with font piracy. Greetings Walter ********************************************************************* Walter Schmidt Schornbaumstrasse 2, 91052 Erlangen, Germany pgp key (1024 bits, keyID 69D36B8D): see pgp key fingerprint: 1C E5 A5 D8 B8 F7 E2 EF 36 55 69 EC D8 26 94 A9 ********************************************************************* 27-Oct-1997 12:18:56-GMT,2516;000000000001 Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (root@rsunx-gw.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA02715 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 05:18:54 -0700 (MST) Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk([193.131.222.35]) (2134 bytes) by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk via smail with P:esmtp/D:includelists/R:bind/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using rfc1413) id for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:15:34 +0000 (GMT) (Smail-3.2.0.97 1997-Aug-19 #9 built 1997-Oct-3) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16954; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:14:28 GMT Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:14:50 +0000 Received: from knott.elsevier.co.uk (knott.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.165]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14826; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:14:30 GMT From: Sebastian Rahtz Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by knott.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA02744; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:15:08 GMT Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 12:15:08 GMT Message-Id: <199710271215.MAA02744@knott.elsevier.co.uk> To: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de Cc: alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk, math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> References: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 --text follows this line-- whoops. i will update finst on CTAN. guess i should rebuild mathptm at some point too. as regards maintenance, i am pragmatically maintaining "finst" on my own, since Alan doesn't have time to do fontinst at present. i can and will make changes to finst, such as this fix and the logging enhancements i added recently, and i have to recommend that people use it in preference to the official package. as rowland-and-rebecca will point out, we are in the unsatisfactory position that the package used to generate a lot of metrics on CTAN (finst) has no documentation, and the documentation of `proper' fontinst is slightly out of date. Alan, the ball is in your court on this one..... Sebastian 27-Oct-1997 15:12:51-GMT,2048;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05698 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 08:03:13 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA24461 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 15:01:55 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:15:15 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:04:16 +0000 Message-ID: <588-Mon27Oct1997140416+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk Cc: vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de, math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx In-Reply-To: References: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199710271215.MAA02744@knott.elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 Alan Jeffrey writes: > > and hand it over to someone else (er, eg you)? I'd originally thought > it would only take me a couple of years being a lecturer to get some > free time back, but I think that was wildly optimistic of me, and I looking forward to retirement? arent you due a sabbatical yet? havent got a tame PhD student yet?... > should just hand the software over to someone who will actively > maintain it. The current situation is certainly not good! i wish i could say "i claim this pore baby", but (to be honest) I would prefer it if someone else did. as this stands for me at present, i can't promise to do whats needed, ie update the fontinst documentation and merge finst back into fontinst. does anyone else want to have a crack at a new unified fontinst setup? sebastian 27-Oct-1997 17:59:52-GMT,1936;000000000001 Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10078 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 10:52:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from streammachine.com (orchid.crisc.com [206.86.182.66]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.8.7/8.8.BEST) with SMTP id JAA22512 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from micky.crisc ([206.86.182.71]) by streammachine.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) Received: by streammachine.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10514; Mon, 27 Oct 97 09:50:06 PST Received: by micky.crisc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA00202; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:50:00 -0800 From: kk@streammachine.com (Konstantino Konstantinides) Message-Id: <199710271750.JAA00202@micky.crisc> Subject: Old dvips fonts To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 09:49:59 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there With old latex, I was using the old dvips fonts % The standard 35 fonts built in to almost all (but very old) PostScript % printers, plus a few variants afm2tfm can construct. rpagk AvantGarde-Book rpagko AvantGarde-BookOblique rpagd AvantGarde-Demi rpagdo AvantGarde-DemiOblique .... These fonts seem to be missing with the new latex2e distribution. However, I have no more access to my old latex209 and I need exactly the same fonts, because they were used to print a book so changes have to be made with the exact font. A couple of questions. Is it enough to have the old *tfm files so that I can reinstall unter latex2e? (I only need them in compatibility mode) How can I reinstall these old fonts? If this is impossible, how one can get the old latex209. It is considered obsolete and CTAN sites do not have it any more. Any other help/suggestions you can provide is welcome. K. Konstantinides kk@streammachine.com 28-Oct-1997 2:29:44-GMT,1656;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA22537 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:27:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.133.155] [194.119.133.155] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xQ1D5-0005F2-00; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 02:16:48 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <588-Mon27Oct1997140416+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> References: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199710271215.MAA02744@knott.elsevier.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 23:59:10 +0000 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx Cc: alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk, s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) [snip] >i wish i could say "i claim this pore baby", but (to be honest) I >would prefer it if someone else did. as this stands for me at present, >i can't promise to do whats needed, ie update the fontinst >documentation and merge finst back into fontinst. does anyone else >want to have a crack at a new unified fontinst setup? I'll have a crack at documentation if someone will help me figure out exactly what the blasted thing does in detail. I reckon that the job is a bit big for any one person to be happy to take it on on their own, and *I'm* certainly not well-equipped enough in the brain department to do any coding. Rowland. 28-Oct-1997 10:13:35-GMT,2278;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01786 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:07:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25526 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:05:40 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:05:46 +0000 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:44:22 +0000 Message-ID: <1423-Tue28Oct1997094422+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx In-Reply-To: References: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199710271215.MAA02744@knott.elsevier.co.uk> <588-Mon27Oct1997140416+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 Rebecca and Rowland writes: > I'll have a crack at documentation if someone will help me figure out > exactly what the blasted thing does in detail. you dont catch me out that easily, rowland.... > I reckon that the job is a bit big for any one person to be happy to take > it on on their own, and *I'm* certainly not well-equipped enough in the > brain department to do any coding. coding is not really an issue at present; the job is one of organisation, to go through all the files in the main fontinst distribution and check they are consistent with the code implemented in the bits of finst that are changed. also, importantly, talking with Alan to get a firm list of known problems and issues. i am happy to keep the baby in my house at present, warm and well-fed (especially since i had the temerity to publish a description of it), but i am not sure i should be responsible for choosing what school to send it to, and for detailed instruction as to its morals. sebastian 28-Oct-1997 10:29:52-GMT,2018;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA02139 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 03:26:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26265 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:24:58 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:25:37 +0000 Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 10:11:04 +0000 Message-ID: <6505-Tue28Oct1997101104+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: kk@streammachine.com Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Old dvips fonts In-Reply-To: <199710271750.JAA00202@micky.crisc> References: <199710271750.JAA00202@micky.crisc> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 Konstantino Konstantinides writes: > These fonts seem to be missing with the new latex2e distribution. they never were part of the LaTeX distribution > Is it enough to have the old *tfm files so that I can reinstall unter > latex2e? (I only need them in compatibility mode) > How can I reinstall these old fonts? you dont need to. the current PSNFSS setup has metrics which should be identical. the names of the fonts in the dvips .map file are irrelevant, what matters is the names used in the .tex and .dvi file. you probably use "ptmr0" or "ptmr". these are supported vi virtual fonts these days. if you use rptmr directly in your .tex file, god help you. you have some work ahead. but it is nothing to do with latex2e vs 209 (unless i misunderstand the question) > If this is impossible, how one can get the old latex209. It is considered > obsolete and CTAN sites do not have it any more. > of course they do, look back at the top level for obsolete sebastian 28-Oct-1997 12:24:15-GMT,1652;000000000001 Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (root@rsunx-gw.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA04033 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 05:19:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (1096 bytes) by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk via sendmail with P:stdio/R:bind/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:15:00 +0000 (GMT) (Smail-3.2.0.97 1997-Aug-19 #9 built 1997-Oct-3) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:15:00 +0000 (GMT) From: Alan Jeffrey To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Cc: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx In-Reply-To: <1423-Tue28Oct1997094422+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> References: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199710271215.MAA02744@knott.elsevier.co.uk> <588-Mon27Oct1997140416+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <1423-Tue28Oct1997094422+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.30 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Sebastian Rahtz writes: > coding is not really an issue at present; the job is one of > organisation, Indeed, it's a matter of taking the current setup and cleaning it up, rewriting documentation, etc. etc. all dull stuff I'm afraid. I can answer specific technical questions but I can't really help do the big reorganization (if I could then I'd just do it myself :-) Alan, 28-Oct-1997 14:10:16-GMT,1221;000000000001 Received: from math.ams.org (math.ams.org [130.44.210.14]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA06026 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:05:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org by math.ams.org via smtpd (for csc-sun.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.2]) with SMTP; 28 Oct 1997 14:05:38 UT Received: from AXP14.AMS.ORG by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-8 #1) id <01IPC248J04W000D9H@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:05:24 EST Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:05:23 -0500 (EST) From: bbeeton Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx In-reply-to: To: Alan Jeffrey Cc: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk, vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de, math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Message-id: <878047523.911270.BNB@MATH.AMS.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Mail-system-version: regarding fontinst, if there are no other takers, alan -- would you like to put a request for adoption into the december issue of tugboat? we'd need copy by about november 20. -- bb 28-Oct-1997 14:12:25-GMT,1565;000000000001 Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (root@rsunx-gw.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA06171 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 07:12:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from math.ams.org([130.44.210.14]) (1177 bytes) by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk via smail with P:smtp/D:includelists/R:bind/T:smtp (sender: ) id for ; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 14:09:06 +0000 (GMT) (Smail-3.2.0.97 1997-Aug-19 #9 built 1997-Oct-3) Received: from axp14.ams.org by math.ams.org via smtpd (for rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk [192.33.16.23]) with SMTP; 28 Oct 1997 14:09:13 UT Received: from AXP14.AMS.ORG by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-8 #1) id <01IPC248J04W000D9H@AXP14.AMS.ORG>; Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:05:23 EST Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 09:05:23 -0500 (EST) From: bbeeton Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx In-reply-to: To: Alan Jeffrey Cc: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk, vieth@thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de, math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Message-id: <878047523.911270.BNB@MATH.AMS.ORG> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Mail-system-version: regarding fontinst, if there are no other takers, alan -- would you like to put a request for adoption into the december issue of tugboat? we'd need copy by about november 20. -- bb 29-Oct-1997 7:41:32-GMT,2076;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA28546 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.133.114] [194.119.133.114] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xQSTO-0002uH-00; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:23:27 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1423-Tue28Oct1997094422+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> References: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199710271215.MAA02744@knott.elsevier.co.uk> <588-Mon27Oct1997140416+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:32:16 +0000 To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk At 9:44 am +0000 28/10/97, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >Rebecca and Rowland writes: > > I'll have a crack at documentation if someone will help me figure out > > exactly what the blasted thing does in detail. >you dont catch me out that easily, rowland.... I had to try :-) Alan Jeffrey wrote: >Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > coding is not really an issue at present; the job is one of > > organisation, > >Indeed, it's a matter of taking the current setup and cleaning it up, >rewriting documentation, etc. etc. all dull stuff I'm afraid. I can >answer specific technical questions but I can't really help do the big >reorganization (if I could then I'd just do it myself :-) Hmm - well, I can do things to the documentation if someone can answer my questions - and there seems to be a volunteer for that (but you might like to check with Sebastian before committing yourself on this one). Is there anyone who could do something to clean things up etc? Rowland. 29-Oct-1997 10:02:06-GMT,1195;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01118 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:02:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10262 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:01:04 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA23233; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:07:29 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:07:29 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199710291007.LAA23233@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Subject: Re: tex-fonts In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Concernant « Re: tex-fonts », Nelson H. F. Beebe écrit : > OK, I've updated the old address to your current one. thank you. Thierry Bouche 29-Oct-1997 10:07:07-GMT,2105;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01112 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:01:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06312 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:00:34 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Wed, 29 Oct 1997 10:01:31 +0000 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:48:10 +0000 Message-ID: <296-Wed29Oct1997094810+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx In-Reply-To: References: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199710271215.MAA02744@knott.elsevier.co.uk> <588-Mon27Oct1997140416+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> <1423-Tue28Oct1997094422+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 Rebecca and Rowland writes: > Hmm - well, I can do things to the documentation if someone can answer my > questions - and there seems to be a volunteer for that (but you might like > to check with Sebastian before committing yourself on this one). Is there this is code for `expect a constant barrage of email whinging', Alan > anyone who could do something to clean things up etc? > i am happy to do whatever is specified in terms of code, probably with advice from others i suggest that if R&R has the time, he should go ahead and try and produce a revised documentation set (asking questions on this list or the fontinst list if it still exists), and i will make changes to the code as required sebastian 29-Oct-1997 10:22:49-GMT,5299;000000000001 Received: from sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk (sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk [128.86.8.50]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA01534 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:22:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from nsfnet-relay.ac.uk by sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk id ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:43:57 +0000 X400-Received: by /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Relayed; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:38:02 +0000 X400-Received: by mta sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk in /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; Relayed; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:38:02 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/;sun3.nsfnet-:049338:971029093802] From: "UK.AC.NSF(3) MTA" To: owner-tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for csg0070@queens-belfast.ac.uk Message-Type: Delivery Report Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:43:57 +0000 Message-ID: <"sun3.nsfnet-:049338:971029093802"@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk> Content-Identifier: Re: fontinst/... Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---Multi-Part-Message-Level-1-1-10557" MIME-Version: 1.0 -----Multi-Part-Message-Level-1-1-10557 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This report relates to your message: Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx, Message-ID: , To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) of Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:51:49 +0000 Your message was not delivered to csg0070@queens-belfast.ac.uk for the following reason: Unknown Address MTA 'queens-belfast.ac.uk' gives error message Unknown local user 'csg0070' ***** The following information is directed towards the local administrator ***** and is not intended for the end user * * DR generated by: mta sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk * in /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/ * at Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:38:02 +0000 * * Converted to RFC 822 at nsfnet-relay.ac.uk * at Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:43:58 +0000 * * Delivery Report Contents: * * Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/;, * To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz)* Recipient-Info: csg0070@queens-belfast.ac.uk, * /RFC-822=csg0070(a)queens-belfast.ac.uk/O=nsfnet-relay/PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; * FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1); * diagnostic Unrecognised-ORName (0); * last trace (ia5-text) Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:51:49 +0000; * converted eits ia5-text; * supplementary info "MTA 'queens-belfast.ac.uk' gives error * message Unknown local user 'csg0070'"; ****** End of administration information -----Multi-Part-Message-Level-1-1-10557 Content-type: message/rfc822 Received: from csc-sun.math.utah.edu by sun3.nsfnet-relay.ac.uk with Internet SMTP (PP); Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:51:50 +0000 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA28546 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 00:37:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.133.114] [194.119.133.114] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xQSTO-0002uH-00; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:23:27 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <1423-Tue28Oct1997094422+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> References: <199710271118.MAA18870@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> <199710271215.MAA02744@knott.elsevier.co.uk> <588-Mon27Oct1997140416+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 07:32:16 +0000 To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 9:44 am +0000 28/10/97, Sebastian Rahtz wrote: >Rebecca and Rowland writes: > > I'll have a crack at documentation if someone will help me figure out > > exactly what the blasted thing does in detail. >you dont catch me out that easily, rowland.... I had to try :-) Alan Jeffrey wrote: >Sebastian Rahtz writes: > > coding is not really an issue at present; the job is one of > > organisation, > >Indeed, it's a matter of taking the current setup and cleaning it up, >rewriting documentation, etc. etc. all dull stuff I'm afraid. I can >answer specific technical questions but I can't really help do the big >reorganization (if I could then I'd just do it myself :-) Hmm - well, I can do things to the documentation if someone can answer my questions - and there seems to be a volunteer for that (but you might like to check with Sebastian before committing yourself on this one). Is there anyone who could do something to clean things up etc? Rowland. -----Multi-Part-Message-Level-1-1-10557-- 29-Oct-1997 10:24:30-GMT,727;000000000001 Received: from aurora.repoc.nwu.edu (aurora.repoc.nwu.edu [165.124.151.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA01575 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:24:28 -0700 (MST) Received: by aurora.repoc.nwu.edu (8.6.12/SMI-DSS-1.04) id EAA02331; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:24:25 -0600 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 04:24:25 -0600 From: sila@aurora.repoc.nwu.edu (Victor Sanchez) Message-Id: <199710291024.EAA02331@aurora.repoc.nwu.edu> Subject: do not send mail to this address any longer Apparently-To: owner-tex-fonts@math.utah.edu This user account is now inactive. Please, do not send mail to this address any longer. Please, remove this address from any newsgroups or automated mailers 29-Oct-1997 11:03:27-GMT,4576;000000000001 Received: from thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (xerxes.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de [134.99.64.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA02145 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:59:49 -0700 (MST) Received: from macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de (macbeth.thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de) by thphy.uni-duesseldorf.de (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21799; Wed, 29 Oct 97 12:00:35 +0100 Received: by macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA20171; Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:59:29 +0100 Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 11:59:29 +0100 Message-Id: <199710291059.LAA20171@macbeth.uni-duesseldorf.de> To: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk Cc: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk Cc: clasen@pong.mathematik.uni-freiburg.de In-Reply-To: <296-Wed29Oct1997094810+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx From: Ulrik Vieth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sebastian Rahtz: > i suggest that if R&R has the time, he should go ahead and try and > produce a revised documentation set (asking questions on this list or > the fontinst list if it still exists), and i will make changes to the > code as required While we are at it, I'd like to point out that the recent work on math fonts also produced a few small extensions to fontinst (by Matthias Clasen) which facilitate writing .etx and .mtx files. It would be nice if those extensions, at least the essential ones, could find their way into the primary fontinst distrubtion as well. As for documentation, the code below allows to write something like \useexamplefont{} \setdefaultslotcomment{The symbol `\slotexample'.} \setslot{}\endsetslot \setslot{}\endsetslot \setslot{}[The letter `\slotexample'.]\endsetslot \setslot{}\endsetslot instead of the more tedious \usepackage{} \setslot{} \comment{The symbol `$\somesymbol$'.} \endsetslot \setslot{} \comment{The symbol `$\anothersymbol$'.} \endsetslot \setslot{} \comment{The letter `\letter'.} \endsetslot I hope the basic idea of this should be clear. Cheers, Ulrik, - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \RequirePackage{fontdoc} \ProvidesPackage{emfntdoc}[1997/04/03 small extensions to fontdoc] \newcommand{\useexamplefont}[1]{\def\fontname{#1}\font\@examplefont=#1} \newcommand{\setdefaultslotcomment}[1]{\def\default@slotcomment{#1}} \newcommand{\slotexample}{{\@examplefont\char\the\slot@number}} \newcommand{\setslot@comment}[1][\default@slotcomment]{\comment{#1}} \let\setslotorig=\setslot \let\endsetslotorig=\endsetslot \renewcommand{\setslot}[1]{\setslotorig{#1}\setslot@comment} \renewcommand{\endsetslot}{\endsetslotorig} \useexamplefont{cmr10} \setdefaultslotcomment{The symbol `\slotexample'.} - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \RequirePackage{fontinst} \ProvidesPackage{emfninst}[1997/04/03 small extensions to fontinst] \newcommand{\slotexample}{} \newcommand{\useexamplefont}[1]{} \newcommand{\setdefaultslotcomment}[1]{} \newcommand{\setslot@comment}[1][]{} \let\setslot@orig=\setslot \renewcommand{\setslot}[1]{\setslot@orig{#1}\setslot@comment} \newcommand{\missingglyph}[1]{ \setglyph{#1} \glyphrule{666}{666} \resetheight{0} % avoid problems with too many depths or heights \resetdepth{0} \glyphwarning{missing glyph} \endsetglyph } \newcommand{\controlglyph}[1]{ \setglyph{#1} \glyphrule{333}{333} \resetheight{0} % avoid problems with too many depths or heights \resetdepth{0} \glyphwarning{control glyph} \endsetglyph } \newcommand{\emptyglyph}[1]{\setglyph{#1}\endsetglyph} \newcommand{\replaceglyph}[2]{\setglyph{#1}\glyph{#2}{1000}\endsetglyph} % the proposed encodings \declareencoding{MATH CORE}{MC} \declareencoding{MATH EXTENSION 1}{MX1} \declareencoding{MATH EXTENSION 2}{MX2} \declareencoding{MATH SYMBOL PRIVILEDGE}{MSP} \declareencoding{MATH SYMBOL 1}{MS1} \declareencoding{MATH SYMBOL 2}{MS2} % additional encodings \declareencoding{LATEX SYMBOLS}{lasy} % for lasy fonts \declareencoding{TEX MATH ITALIC SUBSET}{eurm} % for Euler roman fonts \declareencoding{TEX TEXT SUBSET}{eufrak} % for Euler fraktur fonts \declareencoding{TEX MATH SYMBOLS SUBSET}{euscr} % for Euler script fonts \declareencoding{EULER SUBSTITUTIONS ONLY}{euex} % for Euler extension fonts - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 30-Oct-1997 7:19:31-GMT,1904;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA27537 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 00:14:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.134.162] [194.119.134.162] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xQodj-0001Le-00; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:03:35 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 07:13:50 +0000 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx >Rebecca and Rowland writes: > > Hmm - well, I can do things to the documentation if someone can answer my > > questions - and there seems to be a volunteer for that (but you might like > > to check with Sebastian before committing yourself on this one). Is there > >this is code for `expect a constant barrage of email whinging', Alan :-)) > > anyone who could do something to clean things up etc? > > >i am happy to do whatever is specified in terms of code, probably with >advice from others Hehehehe >i suggest that if R&R has the time, he should go ahead and try and >produce a revised documentation set Ungh - I'll give it a go. I'm not really short of time at the moment; I am short of days on which I'm sane enough to do anything constructive. But the only way to see what happens is to give it a go. Is anyone interested in giving me feedback on what I write, and/or ideas on what needs to be in the documentation and/or changes needed to what's currently available? > (asking questions on this list or >the fontinst list if it still exists), If this list exists, could anyone provide details of where it is and how to subscribe? > and i will make changes to the >code as required Goody! Rowland. 30-Oct-1997 13:42:07-GMT,1411;000000000001 Received: from rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk (root@rsunx-gw.susx.ac.uk [139.184.48.12]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA03820 for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 06:34:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost (852 bytes) by rsunx.crn.cogs.susx.ac.uk via sendmail with P:stdio/R:bind/T:smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:33:59 +0000 (GMT) (Smail-3.2.0.97 1997-Aug-19 #9 built 1997-Oct-3) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 13:33:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Alan Jeffrey To: Rebecca and Rowland Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk Subject: Re: fontinst/mathptm: bug in OMX.etx In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.30 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Rebecca and Rowland writes: > >this is code for `expect a constant barrage of email whinging', Alan > > :-)) :-) By answer questions I meant specific quesions on technical points (and not very many of them...) I'm trying to practice the art of successful delegation here... To get on the fontinst mailing list (really this discussion should be there) you mail me. Since you've already done so, I'll add you. Alan. 12-Nov-1997 19:00:45-GMT,1745;000000000001 Received: from tug.cs.umb.edu (root@tug.cs.umb.edu [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA26036 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:54:25 -0700 (MST) From: hafner@almaden.ibm.com Received: from mailgw1.almaden.ibm.com (mailgw1.almaden.ibm.com [198.4.83.39]) by tug.cs.umb.edu (8.8.0/8.8.0) with SMTP id PAA20216 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:06:14 -0500 Received: by mailgw1.almaden.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) id 8825654D.0067D97C ; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:54:18 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ALMADEN To: tex-fonts@tug.cs.umb.edu Message-ID: <8825654D.00671A35.00@mailgw1.almaden.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:53:56 -0800 Subject: New mode_def (sort of) for modes.mf Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Greetings, There doesn't seem to be a mode_def in the current version of modes.mf (3.2) for the Lexmark 4039 printers (600dpi). There's also a version of this printer called the IBM 4039 (I think). We've found that the IBMFourZeroTwoNine mode (ibmfztn) works just fine with one caveat. It is recommended that the printer be configured with it's "Printer Darkness" set to "darker". So, I suggest 1) adding the lines IBMFourZeroThreeNine := ibmfztn LexmarkFourZeroThreeNine := ibmfztn to the file at around line 1278. 2) Adding some comment about "darker" to the same stanza Alternatives are to do extensive testing with blacker set higher but those of us with IBM 4029's and Lexmark 4039's don't really need two sets of 600dpi fonts (so we share them with the cavet above). Thanks, Jim Hafner hafner@almaden.ibm.com "And your wise men don't know how it feels/to be thick as a brick" Jethro Tull 14-Nov-1997 16:14:14-GMT,1822;000000000001 Received: from crisv2.univ-pau.fr (crisv2.univ-pau.fr [194.167.156.212]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24245 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 09:14:05 -0700 (MST) Received: by crisv2.univ-pau.fr; Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:13:55 +0100 From: Christian Wagner Message-Id: <199711141613.RAA38032@crisv2.univ-pau.fr> Subject: Re: your mail To: beebe@math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:13:55 +0100 ("MET) In-Reply-To: from "Nelson H. F. Beebe" at "Nov 14, 97 08:42:31 am" Organization: Computing Center of the university of Pau (France) Address: C.I.U.P.P.A. - I.F.R - rue Jules FERRY - 64000 PAU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL16 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Nelson. [ as Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote ] >You are now OFF the tex-fonts mailing list; back issues are available >in > ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/mail/tex-fonts*.* >should you later wish to rejoin and catch up on missed postings. Thanks a lot. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >- Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - >- Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - >- University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - >- Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB beebe@acm.org - >- 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - >- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Regards, -- | Christian WAGNER | | Christian.Wagner@univ-pau.fr | 20-Nov-1997 19:06:00-GMT,1446;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20103 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:56:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.133.114] [194.119.133.114] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xYbat-00075f-00; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:44:51 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:44:30 +0000 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Fount encodings, dvi drivers, and stuff A question: If you use fontinst to install a new fount for use with LaTeX, and re-encode it to 8r encoding to begin with, what happens at the dvi driver end? As I understand it, when you install founts using fontinst 1.6 and \latinfamily, you get an 8r encoded .tfms to begin with, which are pointed at as the `final' founts by the .vf files etc. I think this means that the dvi driver has to map the glyph numbers requested in the dvi file to the appropriate slots in the `real' fount file. So that a request for glyph number 182 (para mark) by the dvi file (assuming 8r encoding) means that the dvi driver will actually present glyph number 166 (assuming Mac encoding) to the output device? Is that right? Rowland. (whose head is hurting writing this fontinst documentation) 21-Nov-1997 13:26:57-GMT,3639;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA12839 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 06:13:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id IAA28124; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:13:25 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id IAA11030; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:13:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:13:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711211313.IAA11030@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: (message from Rebecca and Rowland on Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:44:30 +0000) Subject: Re: Fount encodings, dvi drivers, and stuff Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Hi: If you use fontinst to install a new fount for use with LaTeX, and re-encode it to 8r encoding to begin with, what happens at the dvi driver end? With that scheme, the DVI driver reencodes the font to 8r rather than to the encoding used in TeX (T1, LY1, or whatever). As I understand it, when you install founts using fontinst 1.6 and \latinfamily, you get an 8r encoded .tfms to begin with, which are pointed at as the `final' founts by the .vf files etc. This is the `two TFMs plus one VF per font' scheme. The TFM file that TeX sees is set up according to the user chosen encoding (T1, LY1, or whatever). The other TFM file is set up for 8r. The VF file maps character codes in T1 to character codes in 8r. I think this means that the dvi driver has to map the glyph numbers requested in the dvi file to the appropriate slots in the `real' fount file. No, it normally doesn't remap the DVI character codes, but instead changes the encoding in the font. The font has an encoding vector, which lists for each character code what glyph to draw. (There *are* actually situtations where remapping at the DVI driver level is required to work around bugs in other software like Adobe Illustrator, Acrobat Reader etc. but DVIPS doesn't support this). So that a request for glyph number 182 (para mark) by the dvi file (assuming 8r encoding) means that the dvi driver will actually present glyph number 166 (assuming Mac encoding) to the output device? No. The DVI file uses character codes in T1 (or LY1). So your example is poorly chosen since T1 does not include paragraph (and about 38 other useful glyphs). Lets instead take `sterling' (\pound). This is character code 191 in T1, so 191 is the character code that will actually appear in the DVI file. Now in 8r, `sterling' is at 163. So the only purpose of the VF file is to remap character code 191 to 163 Note that since VF like TFM deals only with character codes it cannot really reencode a font (e.g. make unencoded characters accessible). It can only rearrange the character layout. Finally, the font has its own encoding, where `sterling' may be elsewhere (or not even accessible). It is the DVI drivers job to reencode the font so that character code 163 is linked to the program that draws the pound sign. This is quite easy to do in PostScript, and in the case of DVIPS is set up in psfonts.map. Pretty complicated, and while it has some advantages over the `one TFM file per font and no VF' scheme, it seems mostly to have disadvantages. Rowland. (whose head is hurting writing this fontinst documentation) Will it be called the `fountinst' documentation :-)? Regards, Berthold. 21-Nov-1997 18:33:25-GMT,2312;000000000011 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20554 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:33:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.133.110] [194.119.133.88] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xYxie-0005WI-00; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:22:20 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Your message of Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:12:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:26:04 +0000 To: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: tex-fonts-request >Your entry in the tex-fonts mailing list says: > >rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com, ![04-Jul-1997] Rebecca and Rowland >xxx! > >Thus, you should have been receiving mail from tex-fonts >since 4-Jul-1997; Aha! I see what's gone wrong - that's not my email address. It *used* to work because of the old mailbox structure at my ISP, which has recently been changed. Could you change my entry in the tex-fonts mailing list to use my real email address, which is (as it was when I first asked to be subscribed): rebecca@astrid.u-net.com [snip >>> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:53:56 -0800 >>> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:44:30 +0000 > >You can find back mail at > > ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/tex/mail/tex-fonts*.* > >There were postings from you on ... 24-Oct, 27-Oct, >29-Oct, 30-Oct, and 20-Nov. I have no bounces to >you in my personal tex-fonts archive since its >beginning in June 1997. > >Perhaps the tex-fonts list has just been quieter >than you expected! Well, I know it's often quiet, which is why I've not wondered about the lack of postings recently. But I've not got anything dated 12th Nov, and my recent post (20th Nov) didn't arrive from the mailing list either. I have just received a post from Berthold Horn, which was sent directly to me, and ccd to tex-fonts. I got the copy direct from Berthold, but the copy sent to tex-fonts hasn't arrived here. I'll see if it's possible to retrieve the email that's gone to the wrong place; if not, I'll dig around at the back mail archive. Thanks, Rowland. 21-Nov-1997 18:36:54-GMT,1159;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA20556 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:33:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.133.110] [194.119.133.88] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xYxig-0005WI-00; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 18:22:23 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:30:25 +0000 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: Fount encodings, dvi drivers, and stuff Thanks to everyone who replied to my query (I've only received the direct replies because the tex-fonts mailing list has my email address wrong :-( ) I think I understand what's going on now... And (for the curious), I'm documenting fontinst, which helps you install founts. (I've always spelt `fount' that way, and I'm damned if I'm changing just because every other English speaking person in the world has gone American; but `fontinst' is called `fontinst', and that's that). Rowland. 24-Nov-1997 23:05:35-GMT,4446;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07867; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:55:22 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26491; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:55:22 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:55:22 -0700 (MST) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: [Mark Leisher : Unicode BDF fonts available] Message-ID: Folks, this interesting announcement about an extension of Computer Modern into the Unicode character set just came in on the unicode list; perhaps some of you may wish to investigate further: --------------- Received: from public.lists.apple.com (A17-254-0-151.apple.com [17.254.0.151]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03142 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:49:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from unicode.org (A17-254-3-212.apple.com [17.254.3.212]) by public.lists.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24840 ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:47:04 -0800 Received: by unicode.org (NX5.67g/NX3.0S) id AA11717; Mon, 24 Nov 97 11:23:42 -0800 Message-Id: <9711241923.AA11717@unicode.org> Errors-To: uni-bounce@unicode.org X-Uml-Sequence: 4545 (1997-11-24 19:23:38 GMT) To: Multiple Recipients of Reply-To: unicode@unicode.org From: Mark Leisher Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:23:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Unicode BDF fonts available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Over the last year I have been working on a single typeface which can be used to render Unicode text. The typeface is intended for presenting truly multilingual text on Web pages, particularly for dense academic papers/texts that liberally mix languages. I have been distracted recently by "real" work and am unable to do much more work on the fonts. So I decided to put the fonts out so others can use them or work on them if they wish. The typeface is 12pt, 100dpi, proportional, and heavily influenced by Donald Knuth's Computer Modern. There are about 3100 glyphs at the moment in four fonts. Some of the glyphs are in the Private Use Area and may need to be moved if they conflict with other Unicode support systems. I am not an expert in many of these scripts, so please feel free to send me changes if you see something wrong. Also feel free to add glyphs to the fonts. I would appreciate a copy of any additions made. The fonts have not actually been tested in Web pages yet, so more work will probably be needed to adjust the glyph spacing. The fonts are available at: ftp://crl.nmsu.edu/CLR/multiling/unicode/fonts/cu12.tar.gz If you need a BDF font editor: [Sources] ftp://crl.nmsu.edu/CLR/multiling/General/xmbdfed.tar.gz [Binaries: Linux, Solaris, SunOS] ftp://crl.nmsu.edu/CLR/multiling/General/xmbdfed-2.7-ELF.tar.gz ftp://crl.nmsu.edu/CLR/multiling/General/xmbdfed-2.7-SOLARIS.tar.gz ftp://crl.nmsu.edu/CLR/multiling/General/xmbdfed-2.7-SUNOS.tar.gz ------------------------------------------------------------------------ mleisher@crl.nmsu.edu Mark Leisher "A designer knows he has achieved perfection Computing Research Lab not when there is nothing left to add, but New Mexico State University when there is nothing left to take away." Box 30001, Dept. 3CRL -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Las Cruces, NM 88003 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25-Nov-1997 22:14:02-GMT,1902;000000000001 Received: from shodan.in-trier.de (root@shodan.in-trier.de [198.22.51.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07193 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:09:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from hal9000 (arno@hal9000.in-trier.de [198.22.51.231]) by shodan.in-trier.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA13662; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:22:28 +0100 Sender: arno@shodan.in-trier.de Message-ID: <347B5A49.4FDA1D0D@in-trier.de> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 00:07:53 +0100 From: Arno Wagner Reply-To: Arno Wagner X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.25 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Mf mode for Epson Stylus color 600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I made a mode for the Epson Stylus color 600 in 720 dpi. The added lines in 'modes.mf' are: % {\tt arno.wagner@acm.org}, Epson Stylus color 600, 25. November 1997. % In my opinion, the quality when printing 720 dpi is excellent. % If you want to print in 360dpi (much faster) use the 'epstylus' mode % instead. This printer seems to make smaller dots when printing in % 720 dpi and larger ones when printing in 360 dpi. I tried 720x1440 % resolution as well, but found it not worth the additional time. % Note that if you use Ghostscript, you need at least version 5.03 to % support 720 dpi on this printer. This mode may work with the % Epson Stylus color 800 as well. % I tested this mode with the test of Matt Swift, which can be found % above. mode_def epstcsixzerozero = %\[ Epson Stylus Color 600 (720 dpi) mode_param (pixels_per_inch, 720); mode_param (blacker, .25); mode_param (fillin, 0.5); %\[ no '\' in Matt Swift's test in 5pt when = 0 mode_param (o_correction, .8); mode_common_setup_; enddef; I would be happy to contribute this to all users of Metafont. Regards Arno Wagner 25-Nov-1997 22:24:43-GMT,2278;000000000001 Received: from cs.sfu.ca (cs.sfu.ca [142.58.111.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA07530 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:22:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (alonzo [199.60.3.17]) by cs.sfu.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13960 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:22:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Melissa O'Neill" Received: (from oneill@localhost) by alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) id OAA05673 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:22:37 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199711252222.OAA05673@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Subject: Request for experience, MM fonts and LaTeX... (esp. Kepler) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:22:36 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've recently purchased Adobe's new MM font, Kepler, and am about to begin trying to get it to work elegantly with TeX. I know there is a TUGboat article on MM fonts and TeX that I can (and will) read, and generally I understand PostScript, fonts, TeX and the like, but, it only makes sense to ask all among the community of other tex-fonts people before embarking on this task. For example, recent MM fonts have may use specialized calculations for the NormalizeWeightVector and ConvertWeightVector, which existing tools may have problems with. Both of the MM blended-afm tools I have choked on Kepler, but I fixed that in one by making it go out and actually pass the font to a PostScript interpreter and get it to figure out the correct WeightVector. Similarly, I wonder if there is a name in the TeX font naming scheme for Kepler yet? I'd probably choose `pkp', if it's not already taken or another name isn't already assigned. Anyway, if you have have relevant experience you'd like to share, or if you'd like to suggest articles I might find on topics relevant to this endeavour, please let me know... Best Regards, Melissa. P.S. I'm using the standard LaTeX/DVIPS combination, but for previewing I use TeXview (under NEXTSTEP) which supports PostScript matters identically to dvips, so I don't have to worry about making PK fonts for a previewer, which is one challenge I get to avoid. 26-Nov-1997 10:12:40-GMT,2086;000000000001 Received: from atena.eurocontrol.fr (atena.uneec.eurocontrol.fr [147.196.69.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA21576 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 03:00:11 -0700 (MST) Received: by atena.eurocontrol.fr; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA12366; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:59:01 +0100 Received: from wotan.eurocontrol.fr by eurocontrol.fr with ESMTP (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA147048143; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:55:43 +0100 Received: (from lab@localhost) by wotan.eurocontrol.fr (8.7.1/8.7.1) id KAA03361; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:57:11 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <19971126105710.40956@eurocontrol.fr> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:57:11 +0100 From: Christophe Labouisse To: "Melissa O'Neill" Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Request for experience, MM fonts and LaTeX... (esp. Kepler) References: <199711252222.OAA05673@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 0.84e In-Reply-To: <199711252222.OAA05673@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca>; from Melissa O'Neill on Tue, Nov 25, 1997 at 02:22:36PM -0800 There was an article (in french sorry) by Thierry Bouche in Les Cahiers de GUTenberg describing how to install MM fonts for TeX (the example was MinionMM). To create instance of the font the authour used ATM on Windows then ghostscript to get the afm and finally merges the metrics from ghostscript with the kerning pairs from the .PFM file. It's quite cumbersome but I think that it should work with Kepler. > P.S. I'm using the standard LaTeX/DVIPS combination, but for previewing > I use TeXview (under NEXTSTEP) which supports PostScript matters > identically to dvips, so I don't have to worry about making PK fonts > for a previewer, which is one challenge I get to avoid. gsftopk handle gracefully MM fonts. -- Christophe Labouisse Eurocontrol Experimental Centre e-mail: lab@eurocontrol.fr BP 15 Phone: +33 - 01 69 88 73 55 91222 Brétigny-Sur-Orge Fax: +33 - 01 69 88 73 33 FRANCE 26-Nov-1997 10:15:54-GMT,2682;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA21764 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 03:08:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07884; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:08:46 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA21776; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:19:06 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:19:06 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199711261019.LAA21776@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: "Melissa O'Neill" Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: Request for experience, MM fonts and LaTeX... (esp. Kepler) In-Reply-To: <199711252222.OAA05673@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> References: <199711252222.OAA05673@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Concernant « Request for experience, MM fonts and LaTeX... (esp. Kepler) », Melissa O'Neill écrit : hello, i've put my personnal experience (with Minion) in a GUTenberg paper [french!] (ftp://fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/pub/contrib-tex/gut/minion-pk.ps.gz) There does exist now an ideal software that didn't exist at that time, it's mmafm & mmpfb, two utilities by Eddie Kohler that respectively generate an AFM from AMFMs+master AFMs and a `snapshot' making the corresponding monomaster PFB. Both were designed to work with intermediate masters and are reported to work with them. Look at http://www.pdos.lcs.mit.edu/~eddietwo/type/ « « Similarly, I wonder if there is a name in the TeX font naming scheme for « Kepler yet? I'd probably choose `pkp', if it's not already taken or another « name isn't already assigned. if you look at my above mentionned paper, you'll see i have a berry naming scheme of my own for MM fonts, that does not match others (like in the LGC for instance)... « Anyway, if you have have relevant experience you'd like to share, or if « you'd like to suggest articles I might find on topics relevant to this « endeavour, please let me know... « this _should_ not be an endeavour! « making PK fonts « for a previewer, which is one challenge I get to avoid. not really a challenge when you have gs+gsftopk, simply something that should be avoided in the long term... BTW did people try out the patched xdvi that uses the type 1 X rasterizer? Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 26-Nov-1997 13:10:40-GMT,2594;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24702 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 06:02:40 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id IAA01958; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:02:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id IAA13491; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:02:36 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:02:36 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711261302.IAA13491@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: oneill@cs.sfu.ca CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <199711252222.OAA05673@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> (oneill@cs.sfu.ca) Subject: Re: Request for experience, MM fonts and LaTeX... (esp. Kepler) Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Hi: I've recently purchased Adobe's new MM font, Kepler, and am about to begin trying to get it to work elegantly with TeX. I know there is a TUGboat article on MM fonts and TeX that I can (and will) read, and generally I understand PostScript, fonts, TeX and the like, but, it only makes sense to ask all among the community of other tex-fonts people before embarking on this task. For example, recent MM fonts have may use specialized calculations for the NormalizeWeightVector and ConvertWeightVector, which existing tools may have problems with. Both of the MM blended-afm tools I have choked on Kepler, but I fixed that in one by making it go out and actually pass the font to a PostScript interpreter and get it to figure out the correct WeightVector. It is annoying that there are no human readable metric files supplied with MM fonts. Otherwise it would be easier to do this part. But it isn't actually needed by all systems that can handle MM. With Y&Y TeX System :-) e.g. you just install the font using Adobe Type Manager (ATM), create the instances you want with ATM, then select the encoding you want to use from the previewer menu, and finally select `Fonts > WriteTFM...' and off you go. One minor problem is that under Windows NT, ATM no longer uses those cute stub PSS files that it used to. But it is pretty easy to get along without them. Similarly, I wonder if there is a name in the TeX font naming scheme for Kepler yet? I'd probably choose `pkp', if it's not already taken or another name isn't already assigned. I just use the actual font file names :-) Berthold. DISCLAIMER: respondent has connections with http://www.YandY.com 26-Nov-1997 17:11:43-GMT,1236;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00416; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id MAA13443; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id MAA13733; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:10:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:10:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711261710.MAA13733@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: beebe@math.utah.edu CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, beebe@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: Subject: Re: [Mark Leisher : Unicode BDF fonts available] Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu "Nelson H. F. Beebe" write: Folks, this interesting announcement about an extension of Computer Modern into the Unicode character set just came in on the unicode list; perhaps some of you may wish to investigate further: > If you need a BDF font editor: Too bad its in some obscure 100dpi bitmapped format :-) Berthold. 26-Nov-1997 17:11:43-GMT,1236;000000000011 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA00416; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:11:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id MAA13443; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:10:57 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id MAA13733; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:10:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:10:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711261710.MAA13733@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: beebe@math.utah.edu CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, beebe@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: Subject: Re: [Mark Leisher : Unicode BDF fonts available] Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu "Nelson H. F. Beebe" write: Folks, this interesting announcement about an extension of Computer Modern into the Unicode character set just came in on the unicode list; perhaps some of you may wish to investigate further: > If you need a BDF font editor: Too bad its in some obscure 100dpi bitmapped format :-) Berthold. 26-Nov-1997 18:13:40-GMT,1771;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA01721; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:04:14 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id LAA09218; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:04:13 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:04:13 -0700 (MST) To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Re: [Mark Leisher : Unicode BDF fonts available] In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:10:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: >> Too bad its in some obscure 100dpi bitmapped format :-) I think the posting said BDF, which is the standard distribution format for X Window System fonts. Take a look at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/X-Window-System-fonts.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26-Nov-1997 18:47:07-GMT,1652;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02831; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:46:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id NAA18443; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:46:49 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id NAA13771; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:46:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:46:46 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711261846.NAA13771@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: beebe@math.utah.edu CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: Subject: Re: [Mark Leisher : Unicode BDF fonts available] Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: >> Too bad its in some obscure 100dpi bitmapped format :-) I think the posting said BDF, which is the standard distribution format for X Window System fonts. Take a look at Oh, I know :-), I was trying to be sarcastic (note the emoticon in my earlier message). But anyway, isn't it about time that X Windows provide better font support? Isn't it about time that Unix provide system-level scalable outline font support? So we can avoid all the incompatibilities, and complex installation instructions that differ for each application? I know Sun ditched the very nice F3 format, and then got taken by Adobe on the T1 rasterizer they bought, and seem to totally at sea when it comes to fonts these days, but surely somebody can move forward... 27-Nov-1997 2:10:25-GMT,2997;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12541; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:19 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12089; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:18 -0700 (MST) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Web documentation on fonts Message-ID: I've spent a good bit of today reorganizing my Web pages on fonts. My intent with these pages is to create a resource that both local and remote users can read to learn more about fonts, and font software. There is now a new top-level entry to this documentation at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/index.html#fonts or more directly, with less serendipity, at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/index.html Several of the Web pages contain references to software; in every case where a UNIX manual page was available, I've provided links to an automatically-translated HTML file, using the latest release of my man2html utility, available at ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/sgml/index.html#m The extensive GNU font utilities and fontname documentation is also provided in HTML form, thanks to texi2html, and a half-dozen minor hand edits. All HTML files have been prettyprinted (except the GNU font utilities pages), and all pass the rigorous grammatical check of html-ncheck. These files have updated today, or automatically translated from existing documentation: X-Window-System-fonts.html info/fontname.html info/fontu.html info/fontu_toc.html manpages/t1ascii.html manpages/t1asm.html manpages/t1binary.html manpages/t1disasm.html manpages/unpost.html mathematica.html outline-vs-bitmap-fonts.html unicode.html These files are completely new today: computer-modern.html index.html metafont.html postscript-type-1-fonts.html I will be pleased to receive comments, bug reports, and complaints about errors of omission. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27-Nov-1997 2:10:25-GMT,2997;000000000001 Received: from plot79.math.utah.edu (beebe@plot79.math.utah.edu [128.110.198.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12541; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:19 -0700 (MST) From: "Nelson H. F. Beebe" Received: (from beebe@localhost) by plot79.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA12089; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:18 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 19:08:18 -0700 (MST) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu, math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk Cc: beebe@math.utah.edu X-US-Mail: "Center for Scientific Computing, University of Utah, 155 S 1400 E RM 233, Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA" X-Telephone: +1 801 581 5254 X-FAX: +1 801 581 4148 X-URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe Subject: Web documentation on fonts Message-ID: I've spent a good bit of today reorganizing my Web pages on fonts. My intent with these pages is to create a resource that both local and remote users can read to learn more about fonts, and font software. There is now a new top-level entry to this documentation at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/index.html#fonts or more directly, with less serendipity, at http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/fonts/index.html Several of the Web pages contain references to software; in every case where a UNIX manual page was available, I've provided links to an automatically-translated HTML file, using the latest release of my man2html utility, available at ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/sgml/index.html#m The extensive GNU font utilities and fontname documentation is also provided in HTML form, thanks to texi2html, and a half-dozen minor hand edits. All HTML files have been prettyprinted (except the GNU font utilities pages), and all pass the rigorous grammatical check of html-ncheck. These files have updated today, or automatically translated from existing documentation: X-Window-System-fonts.html info/fontname.html info/fontu.html info/fontu_toc.html manpages/t1ascii.html manpages/t1asm.html manpages/t1binary.html manpages/t1disasm.html manpages/unpost.html mathematica.html outline-vs-bitmap-fonts.html unicode.html These files are completely new today: computer-modern.html index.html metafont.html postscript-type-1-fonts.html I will be pleased to receive comments, bug reports, and complaints about errors of omission. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - Center for Scientific Computing FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - University of Utah Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - Department of Mathematics, 105 JWB beebe@acm.org - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@ieee.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27-Nov-1997 9:52:41-GMT,1660;000000000001 Received: from nansen.nrsc.no (nansen.nrsc.no [129.177.42.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA20786 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 02:41:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from fram.nrsc.no by nansen.nrsc.no with SMTP id AA10524 (5.67b8/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:40:16 +0100 Received: by fram.nrsc.no (5.67b8/Uninett-C-1.4) id AA20393; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:40:18 +0100 Message-Id: <199711270940.AA20393@fram.nrsc.no> Subject: new Metafont mode (bug fix for some fonts) To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 10:40:16 +0100 (MET) From: "Alastair D. Jenkins" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Hello, Here is a "square" Metafont mode for the Canon Bubblejet 200. I needed it because I got errors with MusiXTeX when using the "proper" non-1.0 aspect ratio. As it's a quick fix I just use the "default" parameter values for blacker, fillin and o_correction. mode_def bjtzzs = %\[ Canon BubbleJet 200 (720x360 dpi) at 720x720 dpi mode_param (pixels_per_inch, 720); mode_param (blacker, 0.0); mode_param (fillin, 0); mode_param (o_correction, 1.0); mode_common_setup_; enddef; CanonBJTwoZeroZeroSquare := bjtzzs; Regards, Alastair J. -- Alastair D. Jenkins Do/renberg, Ho/go/y, Postboks 72, N-5350 Brattholmen, Norway Phone: +47-56 32 03 77 (listed under Sotra, not Bergen) At work: phone +47-55 29 72 88 fax +47-55 20 00 50 email: Alastair.Jenkins@nrsc.no URL: http://www.nrsc.no:8001/~jenkins/ 27-Nov-1997 23:08:03-GMT,2968;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04105 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:03:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.133.86] [194.119.133.86] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xbCnT-0000pW-00; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 22:52:35 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:22:29 +0000 To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Thanks to the helpful replies I got to my last query on this list, I find myself confused by something else. It's this tfm and vf business. I gather that TeX uses .tfm files as its source for fount metric information while typesetting, and that .vf files are used by the .dvi driver to work out which glyphs in the `real' fount should be used. (this all makes my head hurt because the `real' fount is usually an 8r encoded not at all real fount really that needs to be re-encoded by the dvi driver, but I can handle that if I don't think about it at the same time as thinking about .vfs and TeX and things) Now then, I've got a fount called fkar8a that I've installed. It's been re-encoded by fontinst to 8r encoding, so I've got fkar8r.tfm. This 8r encoded fount was used by fontinst (when it was a .pl and .mtx file) to create fkar8t.vpl. So far, so good. Now then, if I run pltotf on fkar8r.pl, I get fkar8r.tfm. This doesn't make my brain overheat. If I run vptovf on fkar8t.vpl, I get fkar8t.vf and fkar8t.tfm: This is VPtoVF, version 1.4 Input file: fkar8t.vpl Output TFM file: fkar8t.tfm Output VF file: fkar8t.vf Obviously, TeX uses fkar8t.tfm for typesetting. But how does anything know to use the .vf file? And what use exactly is the .vf file put to? I could guess that either there's a flag in the .tfm file that tells the dvi driver to look for a .vf file, or that the dvi driver looks for a `real' fount called fkar8t (either fkar8t.pk, fkar8t.mf, or an entry in a mapping table such as OzTeX's config file or DVIPS's psfonts.map), and failing to find one, looks for a .vf file corresponding to it. As for exactly what's done with the .vf file, I'm not quite sure. Could someone cast some light? And... (this is where my brain *does* overheat, melt down, and explode), when I run vftovp on fkar8t.vf, this happens: Input file: fkar8t.vf Reading TFM file: :TeX-fonts:New tfms:fkar8t.tfm Reading TFM file: :TeX-fonts:New tfms:fkar8r.tfm Check sum in VF file being replaced by TFM check sum Output file: fkar8t.vpl Why are two .tfms being read? Can anyone explain what's happening here? Thanks in advance, Rowland. P.S. At this rate, I suspect finishing any fontinst documentation will take a little longer than I was expecting, but I seem to be making some progress. 28-Nov-1997 9:39:53-GMT,3724;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA14585 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 02:36:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04943; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 10:36:21 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id KAA26114; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 10:46:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 10:46:52 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199711280946.KAA26114@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: Rebecca and Rowland Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII as berthold said, it's the 3 TFMs & 2 VFs for 3 founts scheme. 1 base TFM : the 8r which gives access to all glyphs in the type 1 fount, although to be effectively accessible, the type 1 fount will need to be reencoded by the driver before being downloaded. This is already a full functionnal TFM that allows typesetting in its own (ligatures & kerning are present). 1 pair VF+TFM for each one of T1 (8t or 9e) and OT1 (7t or 9t) TeX encoding, these being only virtual fonts refering to the base one. In 2 words, both TFM + VF are needed for them because TeX is happy (fooled ?) with one TFM, whatever it is related to (real or virtual or reencoded font), when you typset in free-KA using T1 encoding, tex will only need the metric information provided by fkar8t.tfm. The conversion virtual -> real is provided by the VF that is essentially a collection of fragments of DVI code drawing each individual (virtual) charachter with DVI opcodes (allowing rules, special, placement of charachters from some real font, offsets, etc.). Thus it is natural that the VF refers to the base TFM, and that the base TFM be used in order to read the metrics from the real font used. Typically, when asked to deliver some glyphs from a given fount fkar8t, a driver will _first_ look for the file fkar8t.vf and desassemble it back to real founts before proceeding, if it doesn't find any virutal definiton of that fount, it will assume that was a real one, and proceed. It is only a step further that different type formats are considered, when it comes to actually print the glyphs (in our case, it will only attempt to print glyphs from fkar8r). Depending on the driver's very nature, it will assume that some format is the default, & look in a parameter file to see if the peculiar font needs some special treatment (such as reencoding, downloading outlines rather than computing PKs, converting truetype to type 3, then batch-running fontographer to convert it to type1, and using a type1 rasterizer in the end, or running metapost on MF source to generate outlines that will be automagically auti-hinted in fontlab--the usual stuff in one word). You should also investigate the expert situation where you have a 4 TFMs + 2 VFS scheme for 2 founts, each virtual fount pointing to 2 base founts (8r and 8x) and the faked small cap situation where small accents are built from scaled down versions of cap accents in the 8r fount so that one VF calls twice the base TFM at 2 different sizes, which ends up in one download of one reencoded fount. Hope i helped. Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 28-Nov-1997 15:45:07-GMT,912;000000000011 Received: from diablo.fem.unicamp.br (root@diablo.fem.unicamp.br [143.106.9.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20389 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 08:35:52 -0700 (MST) Received: from viper.fem.unicamp.br (viper [143.106.9.15]) by diablo.fem.unicamp.br (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA31386 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:36:52 -0200 Received: (from camino@localhost) by viper.fem.unicamp.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA16168 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:34:53 -0200 (EDT) From: Juan F C dos Santos Message-Id: <199711281534.NAA16168@viper.fem.unicamp.br> Subject: Subscribe/unsubscribe To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 13:34:52 -0300 (GMT-3:00) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Content-Type: text Please, How can I subscribe (unsubscribe) to this mailing list? Thanks in advances, Juan 29-Nov-1997 3:36:20-GMT,3324;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA02645 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 20:33:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id WAA17358; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:33:05 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id WAA14585; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:33:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:33:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711290333.WAA14585@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: (message from Rebecca and Rowland on Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:22:29 +0000) Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Hi: Thanks to the helpful replies I got to my last query on this list, I find myself confused by something else. Ghee, and everyone always tells me that this `two TFM plus one VF per font' scheme is so trivial that I am a fool to complain about its complexity :-) It's this tfm and vf business. I gather that TeX uses .tfm files as its source for fount metric information while typesetting, and that .vf files are used by the .dvi driver to work out which glyphs in the `real' fount should be used. (this all makes my head hurt because the `real' fount is usually an 8r encoded not at all real fount really that needs to be re-encoded by the dvi driver, but I can handle that if I don't think about it at the same time as thinking about .vfs and TeX and things) Here is the simple version of the story: In this scheme, TeX sees only one TFM file, which is for a virtual font. It puts the name of that file in the DVI file. DVIPS sees that name, discovers there isn't a real font with that name, and looks for a VF file with that name. That VF file gives the name of the `real' font and says how to rearrange the characters in the `real' font. It then looks for that real font. If it is a `PS' font it will be listed in psfonts.map. Typically the entry in psfonts.map will also specify how the `raw' font is to be reencoded to be this `real' font. I put `real' in quotation marks because it is the reencoded font, not the `raw' unadulterated font. Why the need for reencoding? Because the virtual font mechanism can only shuffle around numbers, that is, map character code numbers to other numbers. It cannot make unencoded characters accessible (Typically `raw' `PS' fonts are set up for Adobe StandardEncoding which leaves over 60 of the `standard' 228 glyphs in text fonts unencoded). Now if you have to reencode the font already why do you also need the shuffling of character codes by the VF? Hey, don't ask me :-) Why are two .tfms being read? Can anyone explain what's happening here? Another thing you ask about is why DVIPS reads both TFMs. Well, a more interesting question is why it reads the TFM at all, since the font has all the needed metrics in it. This has to do with DVIPS wanting to produce resolution-dependent output. It replaces the fonts metrics with rounded versions derived from the TFM file. Regards, Berthold 29-Nov-1997 4:37:27-GMT,2883;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03631 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.134.152] [194.119.134.152] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xbeQt-0006sw-00; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 04:23:07 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711280946.KAA26114@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:00:02 +0000 To: Thierry Bouche From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu >as berthold said, it's the 3 TFMs & 2 VFs for 3 founts scheme. So it is - and thanks for this detailed explanation. >1 base TFM : the 8r which gives access to all glyphs in the type 1 >fount, although to be effectively accessible, the type 1 fount will >need to be reencoded by the driver before being downloaded. >This is already a full functionnal TFM that allows typesetting in its >own (ligatures & kerning are present). I see. >1 pair VF+TFM for each one of T1 (8t or 9e) and OT1 (7t or 9t) TeX >encoding, 9e and 9t? I've not heard of these encodings. Could someone give me a pointer to some information on them? I can't see anything obvious at CTAN. > these being only virtual fonts refering to the base one. >In 2 words, both TFM + VF are needed for them because TeX is happy >(fooled ?) with one TFM, whatever it is related to (real or virtual >or reencoded font), when you typset in free-KA using T1 encoding, free-KA? I *think* you mean `typeset using the fount family fka'? Is that right? > tex >will only need the metric information provided by fkar8t.tfm. The >conversion virtual -> real is provided by the VF that is essentially a >collection of fragments of DVI code drawing each individual (virtual) >charachter with DVI opcodes (allowing rules, special, placement of >charachters from some real font, offsets, etc.). Thus it is natural >that the VF refers to the base TFM, and that the base TFM be used in >order to read the metrics from the real font used. Righto - this makes sense. >Typically, when asked to deliver some glyphs from a given fount fkar8t, >a driver will _first_ look for the file fkar8t.vf and desassemble it [snip] >will be automagically auti-hinted in fontlab--the usual stuff in one >word). Okay - got this too. [snip] >Hope i helped. You certainly have - thank you very much. Maybe I'm being stupid, but I still don't see why vftovp reads two tfms and a vf when re-creating a vpl. What is it that lives in a vpl file? Thanks again, Rowland. 29-Nov-1997 18:03:25-GMT,4699;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA16112 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 10:57:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.134.182] [194.119.134.182] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xbqxN-00012z-00; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:45:30 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711290333.WAA14585@kauai.ai.mit.edu> References: (message from Rebecca and Rowland on Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:22:29 +0000) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:24:39 +0000 To: bkph@ai.mit.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu (I was going to reply only to Berthold, but I changed my mind) >Ghee, and everyone always tells me that this `two TFM plus one VF per font' >scheme is so trivial that I am a fool to complain about its complexity :-) :-) Actuallly, I understand *roughly* what's going on; it's just the details that I haven't yet got the hang of. I think part of the problem is that everyone wants to make it seem `oh so simple', so all the explanations skip the important details. [snip] >Here is the simple version of the story: In this scheme, TeX sees only >one TFM file, which is for a virtual font. It puts the name of that >file in the DVI file. DVIPS sees that name, discovers there isn't a >real font with that name, and looks for a VF file with that name. The famous Sebastian Rahtz tells me that the dvi driver first looks for a vf file with that name, and if it doesn't find one, then assumes its a real fount. Clearly, one of you has it wrong. Is it you, or is it him? >That VF file gives the name of the `real' font and says how to >rearrange the characters in the `real' font. It then looks for that >real font. If it is a `PS' font it will be listed in psfonts.map. This makes the not necessarily valid assumption that you're using DVIPS. >Typically the entry in psfonts.map will also specify how the `raw' >font is to be reencoded to be this `real' font. > >I put `real' in quotation marks because it is the reencoded font, not >the `raw' unadulterated font. Why the need for reencoding? >Because the virtual font mechanism can only shuffle around numbers, >that is, map character code numbers to other numbers. It cannot >make unencoded characters accessible (Typically `raw' `PS' fonts >are set up for Adobe StandardEncoding which leaves over 60 of >the `standard' 228 glyphs in text fonts unencoded). Now if you >have to reencode the font already why do you also need the shuffling >of character codes by the VF? Hey, don't ask me :-) A puzzle, isn't it? I think it's because TeX uses T1 and OT1 encoding and that's that (aside from when it doesn't, but you know what I mean). Forward and backward compatibility are Good Things, so you don't want to fiddle about with encodings too much (ever wondered why most people use OT1 by default?) Anyway, the actual encoding the real live Type 1 printer fount file uses can be pretty much anything, and this varies according to computer. It doesn't make any sense at all to have *this* part of the encoding dealt with by TeX itself, because the encoding used by the Type 1 fount is likely to change with time and computer system - after all, most of us use either Adobe Standard or Mac encoded encoded founts at the moment, but Unicode encoding will become quite common some time soon. The sensible thing to do is to have the dvi driver handle this part of the interface, because the dvi driver set-up is *supposed* to be system-dependent. This way, you can have a system independent TeX set-up, which means you get better compatibility across time and space (if you'll pardon the pretension) Does this reasoning make any sense, and does it have any relationship to reality? > Why are two .tfms being read? Can anyone explain what's happening here? > >Another thing you ask about is why DVIPS reads both TFMs. Not DVIPS; vftovpl. > Well, >a more interesting question is why it reads the TFM at all, since the >font has all the needed metrics in it. When you say `the font', what do you mean? (Thinks: the vf file `is' the fount; each tfm file `is' the fount; the Type 1 printer fount file `is' the fount.) > This has to do with DVIPS >wanting to produce resolution-dependent output. It replaces the >fonts metrics with rounded versions derived from the TFM file. I see (I think). I take it that DVIPS does the rounding? Thanks again, Rowland. 29-Nov-1997 19:09:28-GMT,5159;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17282 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:05:19 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id OAA29904; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:05:15 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id OAA14874; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:05:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:05:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711291905.OAA14874@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: (message from Rebecca and Rowland on Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:24:39 +0000) Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Hi: The famous Sebastian Rahtz tells me that the dvi driver first looks for a vf file with that name, and if it doesn't find one, then assumes its a real fount. Clearly, one of you has it wrong. Is it you, or is it him? The famous Sebastian Rahtz is right, no doubt. Since I never use DVIPS I don't know much about such details. >That VF file gives the name of the `real' font and says how to >rearrange the characters in the `real' font. It then looks for that >real font. If it is a `PS' font it will be listed in psfonts.map. This makes the not necessarily valid assumption that you're using DVIPS. Oh? That *is* what we are talking about isn't it? Do you know another implementation that works this way? >Because the virtual font mechanism can only shuffle around numbers, >that is, map character code numbers to other numbers. It cannot >make unencoded characters accessible (Typically `raw' `PS' fonts >are set up for Adobe StandardEncoding which leaves over 60 of >the `standard' 228 glyphs in text fonts unencoded). Now if you >have to reencode the font already why do you also need the shuffling >of character codes by the VF? Hey, don't ask me :-) A puzzle, isn't it? I think it's because TeX uses T1 and OT1 encoding and that's that (aside from when it doesn't, but you know what I mean). Forward and backward compatibility are Good Things, so you don't want to fiddle about with encodings too much (ever wondered why most people use OT1 by default?) Well, yes, but if you are going to have different names for the same font encoded different ways (by `decorating' the base name) then there is no need to share the same `real' font. And hence no need for the VF approach. That is, the psfonts.map has two entries to force reencoding of the `raw' font to anything you want, no need to add additional reshuffling using VF. Anyway, the actual encoding the real live Type 1 printer fount file uses can be pretty much anything, and this varies according to computer. It Well, for text fonts, the actual font file *always* says Adobe Standard Encoding. And yes, you never want to use that. So you *do* have to reencode the font anyway. Which was my point. If you have to reencode it anyway, why bother with an additional shuffling of character codes? doesn't make any sense at all to have *this* part of the encoding dealt with by TeX itself, because the encoding used by the Type 1 fount is likely to change with time and computer system - after all, most of us use either Adobe Standard or Mac encoded encoded founts at the moment, or Windows ANSI encoding :-) but Unicode encoding will become quite common some time soon. Well it is there right now in Windows NT with both TrueType and Type 1 fonts (using ATM 4.0 for NT). I can see all the popluated parts of Lucida Latin fonts in `Character Map' e.g. Unfortunately there is very little software that can take advantage of it yet. The sensible thing to do is to have the dvi driver handle this part of the interface, because the dvi driver set-up is *supposed* to be system-dependent. Agreed. But that still doesn't address the question of why yet another layer of remapping is needed (VF). >Well, >a more interesting question is why it reads the TFM at all, since the >font has all the needed metrics in it. When you say `the font', what do you mean? (Thinks: the vf file `is' the fount; each tfm file `is' the fount; the Type 1 printer fount file `is' the fount.) To me its real simple: the fo(u)nt is the thing that actually contains the character programs. Hence a TFM file is not a font (despite nomenclature used in the TeX book, neither is a VF file. But you are right this is one of the most confusion parts to most TeX users. >This has to do with DVIPS >wanting to produce resolution-dependent output. It replaces the >fonts metrics with rounded versions derived from the TFM file. I see (I think). I take it that DVIPS does the rounding? Yes, in order to achieve (claimed) better spacing at a particular resolution, at the cost of worse spacing at all other resolutions... Regards, Berthold. 29-Nov-1997 19:31:58-GMT,1075;000000000001 Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17748 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:28:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from slip139-92-41-87.ut.nl.ibm.net (slip139-92-41-87.ut.nl.ibm.net [139.92.41.87]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA53922 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 19:28:41 GMT Message-Id: <199711291928.TAA53922@out2.ibm.net> From: "Walter Schmidt" To: "tex-fonts" Date: Sat, 29 Nov 97 16:08:38 +0100 Reply-To: "Walter Schmidt" Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.92 (OS/2 Warp) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? On Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:33:03 -0500 (EST), Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: >Here is the simple version of the story: ... Thank you very much! Your explanation should be posted to all TeX-related FAQs and mailing lists around the world ;-) Greetings Walter 29-Nov-1997 19:36:25-GMT,2568;000000000001 Received: from nx1.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx1.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17844 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:33:42 -0700 (MST) Received: from StudServer.Uni-Dortmund.DE (actually sx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE) by nx1.hrz.uni-dortmund.de with SMTP (PP); Sat, 29 Nov 1997 20:33:37 +0100 Received: from localhost by StudServer.Uni-Dortmund.DE (SMI-8.6/HRZ-V1.6-SunOS-09/10/97-11:04:10) id UAA15080; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 20:33:36 +0100 Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 20:33:36 +0100 (MET) From: Werner Lemberg To: "Berthold K.P. Horn" cc: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? In-Reply-To: <199711291905.OAA14874@kauai.ai.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Berthold K.P. Horn wrote: > >That VF file gives the name of the `real' font and says how to > >rearrange the characters in the `real' font. It then looks for that > >real font. If it is a `PS' font it will be listed in psfonts.map. > > This makes the not necessarily valid assumption that you're using DVIPS. > > Oh? That *is* what we are talking about isn't it? Do you know another > implementation that works this way? I think that all PS TeX tools will check psfonts.map; so do pstopk and gsftopk which are e.g. called by xdvi to do the job. > Anyway, the actual encoding the real live Type 1 printer fount file uses > can be pretty much anything, and this varies according to computer. It > > Well, for text fonts, the actual font file *always* says Adobe Standard > Encoding. And yes, you never want to use that. So you *do* have to > reencode the font anyway. Which was my point. If you have to reencode > it anyway, why bother with an additional shuffling of character codes? At least Type 1 fonts have only one encoding. CID PS fonts and TTF fonts can have any number of encodings... > but Unicode encoding will become quite common some time soon. > > Well it is there right now in Windows NT with both TrueType and Type 1 fonts > (using ATM 4.0 for NT). I can see all the popluated parts of Lucida Latin > fonts in `Character Map' e.g. Unfortunately there is very little software that > can take advantage of it yet. Unicode is quite useless for TeX. Omega is a different story. Werner 29-Nov-1997 19:38:12-GMT,1429;000000000001 Received: from hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (ats@wydo122.wuh.wustl.edu [128.252.232.122]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17872 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:35:40 -0700 (MST) Received: (from ats@localhost) by hubert.wuh.wustl.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA22726; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:35:25 -0600 To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? References: <199711291905.OAA14874@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: Alan Shutko Date: 29 Nov 1997 13:35:25 -0600 In-Reply-To: "Berthold K.P. Horn"'s message of Sat, 29 Nov 1997 14:05:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Lines: 12 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 X-Emacs: Emacs 20.2, MULE 3.0 (MOMIJINOGA) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI MIME-Edit 0.98 - =?ISO-8859-4?Q?"D=F2?= =?ISO-8859-4?Q?h=F2ji"?=) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>>>> "B" == Berthold K P Horn writes: B> Agreed. But that still doesn't address the question of why yet B> another layer of remapping is needed (VF). Well, it allows you to do stuff like mathptm, which I did last night for the Spectrum font. I've also heard that it allows you to do proper kerning for ligatures in the expert set? -- Alan Shutko - By consent of the corrupted It takes a smart husband to have the last word and not use it. 29-Nov-1997 23:12:02-GMT,2423;000000000001 Received: from tug.cs.umb.edu (tug.cs.umb.edu [158.121.106.10]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA21507 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 16:12:00 -0700 (MST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by tug.cs.umb.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA01682 for pdftex-list; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:06:01 -0500 Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by tug.cs.umb.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01676 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:06:00 -0500 Received: from alisan.ibm.net (uri@slip129-37-122-198.mo.us.ibm.net [129.37.122.198]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA76912 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 23:06:32 GMT Received: (from uri@localhost) by alisan.ibm.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id SAA00248; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:06:36 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 18:06:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199711292306.SAA00248@alisan.ibm.net> From: Uri Blumenthal To: pdftex@tug.cs.umb.edu Subject: Re: PDFTeX/hyperref refers to sections in appendix instead of running In-Reply-To: <9711290404.aa28763@graves.maths.tcd.ie> References: <9711290404.aa28763@graves.maths.tcd.ie> X-Mailer: VM 6.31 under 20.2 XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: uri@ibm.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pdftex@tug.org Precedence: bulk >>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy Murphy writes: >> > Isn't it a bit crazy that pdftex does not set \pdfoutput=1 by >> default? >> >> I wouldn't say so. I use pdftex for all my TeX work, and only >> a relatively small subset of this involves generating PDF >> files. Timothy> I'm sure you are very odd. Who on earth would expect Timothy> pdftex to output dvi? No he is not. I for one appreciate the ability of PDFTeX to output DVI or PDF, and I DO HOPE that one day there will be just ONE excutable that will produce DVI and PDF. Timothy> You might as well have dvips outputting GIF files. If multipage GIFs made any sense to me, I'd've supported this idea. (:-) In any case: - the strive to have one executable producing both PDF and DVI is good. - whether it is wise to have the switch as part of the input file rather than a command line flag, I don't know, but can live with both (or either one :-). Regards, Uri -=-=-==-=-=- 30-Nov-1997 7:50:06-GMT,1703;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA00328 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 00:45:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.134.171] [194.119.134.171] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xc3tE-0002gP-00; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 07:34:05 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 22:44:59 +0000 To: TeX founts mailing list From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: A question about encodings and afm files I've been trying to work out how TeX decides which number to put in a dvi file when it comes across a character to output. And I've not got all that far. Is it the case that TeX's default behaviour is to output the same number to the dvi file as it met in the input file? Please say `yes' - I think I can understand what's going on if that's the case. And the afm question is this: Does anyone know if there's some sort of key to the afm files at CTAN in the fonts/postscript/adobe/afmfiles/ directories, or have you got to download all the files and examine the contents of them to find the afm files you're after? (btw, I've left some ravings at ftp://ftp.u-net.com/local/fontinst-doc.tex that will eventually turn into the new fontinst documentation. It's not really properly started yet, let alone finished, and it certainly doesn't have anything like a discernable structure; but if anyone reads it and sees something that's actually wrong, I'd appreciate being put on the right track.) Ta, Rowland. 30-Nov-1997 8:28:20-GMT,1634;000000000001 Received: from nx1.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE (nx1.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE [129.217.131.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00959 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 01:24:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from StudServer.Uni-Dortmund.DE (actually sx2.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE) by nx1.hrz.uni-dortmund.de with SMTP (PP); Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:23:55 +0100 Received: from localhost by StudServer.Uni-Dortmund.DE (SMI-8.6/HRZ-V1.6-SunOS-09/10/97-11:04:10) id JAA19382; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:23:56 +0100 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 09:23:56 +0100 (MET) From: Werner Lemberg To: Rebecca and Rowland cc: TeX founts mailing list Subject: Re: A question about encodings and afm files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 29 Nov 1997, Rebecca and Rowland wrote: > I've been trying to work out how TeX decides which number to put in a dvi > file when it comes across a character to output. > > And I've not got all that far. Is it the case that TeX's default behaviour > is to output the same number to the dvi file as it met in the input file? If you mean that (after macro expansion) a character 'x' will be shipped out as 'x', then the answer is yes, provided the character exists in the .tfm file. And this not the default behaviour, but the only possibility, since TeX only sees the .tfm file of the character's font. Werner 30-Nov-1997 17:28:45-GMT,1743;000000000011 Received: from diablo.fem.unicamp.br (root@diablo.fem.unicamp.br [143.106.9.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA09443 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 10:28:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from viper.fem.unicamp.br (viper [143.106.9.15]) by diablo.fem.unicamp.br (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA16780 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:29:31 -0200 Received: (from camino@localhost) by viper.fem.unicamp.br (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA18183 for beebe@math.utah.edu; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:27:31 -0200 (EDT) From: Juan F C dos Santos Message-Id: <199711301727.PAA18183@viper.fem.unicamp.br> Subject: Re: Subscribe/unsubscribe To: beebe@math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:27:31 -0300 (GMT-3:00) In-Reply-To: from "Nelson H. F. Beebe" at Nov 28, 97 09:18:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL0] Content-Type: text > You are already subscribed. If you want to unsubscribe, just > sent a note to that effect. tex-fonts and tex-archive are > maintained manually by a human (me). I do not know there was two different lists: tex-fonts and tex-archive. Could you please unsubscribe me from the tex-fonts and subscribe me to the tex-archive? Thanks in advances, Juan --- ______________________________________________________________________ Juan Francisco Camino dos Santos tel: 55 19 7887906 Dept. de Mecanica Computacional fax: 55 19 2393722 Faculdade de Engenharia Mecanica Universidade Estadual de Campinas Caixa Postal 6122 13083-970 Campinas, SP - Brasil e-mail: camino@fem.unicamp.br ______________________________________________________________________ 30-Nov-1997 20:48:21-GMT,2333;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12640 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:44:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id PAA24825; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id PAA15285; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:44:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:44:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711302044.PAA15285@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: sx0005@sx2.hrz.uni-dortmund.de CC: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: (message from Werner Lemberg on Sat, 29 Nov 1997 20:33:36 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu From: Werner Lemberg > Oh? That *is* what we are talking about isn't it? Do you know another > implementation that works this way? I think that all PS TeX tools will check psfonts.map; so do pstopk and gsftopk which are e.g. called by xdvi to do the job. I thought he was talking about TeX Systems. Also, I note that OzTeX uses a table in a different format, as does GhostView and Textures. > Well, for text fonts, the actual font file *always* says Adobe Standard > Encoding. And yes, you never want to use that. So you *do* have to > reencode the font anyway. Which was my point. If you have to reencode > it anyway, why bother with an additional shuffling of character codes? At least Type 1 fonts have only one encoding. CID PS fonts and TTF fonts can have any number of encodings... Not sure what this means. (1) You can reencode a T1 font to anything you want. It is actually hard to reencode a TT font. (2) If you consider different platforms then indeed the T1 font has several different encodings (Windows ANSI, Mac standard roman, ISO Latin 1), as does a TT font (except that many TT fonts do not have the required tables - e.g. Apple's TT fonts lack the Windows tables). Unicode is quite useless for TeX. Omega is a different story. Yup. Berthold. 30-Nov-1997 20:51:23-GMT,1899;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12738 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 13:48:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id PAA24907; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:48:43 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id PAA15289; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:48:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 15:48:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199711302048.PAA15289@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: ats@acm.org CC: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: (message from Alan Shutko on 29 Nov 1997 13:35:25 -0600) Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu B> Agreed. But that still doesn't address the question of why yet B> another layer of remapping is needed (VF). Well, it allows you to do stuff like mathptm, which I did last night for the Spectrum font. I've also heard that it allows you to do proper kerning for ligatures in the expert set? Yes, VF lets you do some neat tricks like combining characters from different fonts into one `font' and tweaking side-bearings and advance widths, etc. Which is very good if you don't have tools to work with the actual fonts, or don't want to touch the actual fonts. But this isn't what we seem to be talking about here, which is straight-forward use of text fonts in LaTeX 2e. My point is that in order to get the rarely used fancy features we seem to force complexity in the trivial case. I have nothing against doing the fancy stuff, just don't like the idea of doing it at the expense of making ordinary things complex for the average users. Berthold. 30-Nov-1997 21:04:11-GMT,1607;000000000001 Received: from venus.open.ac.uk (venus.open.ac.uk [137.108.143.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA12970 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 14:02:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from fell.open.ac.uk by venus with SMTP Internet (MMTA v2.2) with ESMTP; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:01:53 +0000 Received: (from car2@localhost) by fell.open.ac.uk (8.8.5/8.6.12) id UAA03328; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:59:17 GMT Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:59:17 GMT Message-Id: <199711302059.UAA03328@fell.open.ac.uk> From: Chris Rowley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Werner Lemberg Cc: Rebecca and Rowland , TeX founts mailing list Subject: Re: A question about encodings and afm files In-Reply-To: References: Werner wrote -- > If you mean that (after macro expansion) a character 'x' will be shipped > out as 'x', then the answer is yes, provided the character exists in the > .tfm file. And this not the default behaviour, but the only possibility, > since TeX only sees the .tfm file of the character's font. As Werner suggests, there may be a few other things that happen to a character on its way through TeX, especially if it is within math-mode. But at the output-to-dvi stage no further transformations happen. chris 30-Nov-1997 23:46:47-GMT,7020;000000000001 Received: from wrath (serv1.is2.u-net.net [194.119.130.23]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA15861 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 16:44:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from [194.119.134.88] [194.119.134.88] by wrath with esmtp (Exim 1.62 #2) id 0xcIq0-0005H5-00; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:31:44 +0000 X-Sender: rebecca-astrid@mail.u-net.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199711291905.OAA14874@kauai.ai.mit.edu> References: (message from Rebecca and Rowland on Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:24:39 +0000) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:15:45 +0000 To: bkph@ai.mit.edu From: Rebecca and Rowland Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Cc: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu >Hi: > > The famous Sebastian Rahtz tells me that the dvi driver first looks for a > vf file with that name, and if it doesn't find one, then assumes its a real > fount. Clearly, one of you has it wrong. Is it you, or is it him? > >The famous Sebastian Rahtz is right, no doubt. \begin{feeblejoke} I'd doubt it; anyone with judgement poor enough to engage me in an email conversation is clearly not to be trusted. (Thinks: Hmm... I seem to have insulted more than Sebastian here. I always said I was stupid.) \end{feeblejoke} > Since I never use >DVIPS I don't know much about such details. > > >That VF file gives the name of the `real' font and says how to > >rearrange the characters in the `real' font. It then looks for that > >real font. If it is a `PS' font it will be listed in psfonts.map. > > This makes the not necessarily valid assumption that you're using DVIPS. > >Oh? That *is* what we are talking about isn't it? I thought I asked a general question about how dvi drivers deal with virtual founts. > Do you know another >implementation that works this way? I don't know anything; that's why I asked. [snip] >Well, yes, but if you are going to have different names for the same font >encoded different ways (by `decorating' the base name) then there is no >need to share the same `real' font. And hence no need for the VF approach. It's not essential, but it does strike me as being more easily portable. >That is, the psfonts.map has two entries to force reencoding of the `raw' >font to anything you want, no need to add additional reshuffling using VF. But that does mean you need different encoding vectors for each occurrance of a different encoding *and* each different dvi driver. The nice thing about the vf approach is that you need one 8r encoding vector for each dvi driver (rather than OT1, T1, and any others that are in use); and the OT1->8r and T1->8r mapping is handled by a single encoding vector (for each encoding) that works for all TeX installations. If everyone used dvips and the same PostScript founts, then this non-vf approach wouldn't have any drawbacks. But what of those of us who use TrueType founts on Macintoshes, without using dvips? > Anyway, the actual encoding the real live Type 1 printer fount file uses > can be pretty much anything, and this varies according to computer. It > >Well, for text fonts, the actual font file *always* says Adobe Standard >Encoding. Surely not? I was under the impression that the printer fount files on my computer say they use Macintosh text encoding. They certainly behave as if this were the case. > And yes, you never want to use that. So you *do* have to >reencode the font anyway. Until 8r encoding was invented, PS founts were installed `raw', so this re-encoding step wasn't needed. As Alan Jeffrey puts it in fontinst.tex: >Finally, you should tell your {\tt dvi}-to-PostScript driver about the >fonts. This will depend on your driver, for example with {\tt dvips} >you should add the following lines to your {\tt psfonts.map} file: >\begin{verbatim} > ptmr0 Times-Roman > ptmri0 Times-Italic > ptmb0 Times-Bold > ptmbi0 Times-BoldItalic >\end{verbatim} In other words, Adobe standard encoding has been used, and re-encoding in the dvi driver isn't essential. > Which was my point. If you have to reencode >it anyway, why bother with an additional shuffling of character codes? Can you think of a way in which TeX documents could be made properly portable, and dvi drivers could be made easy to set up, given that we'd need dozens of different output encodings for each different dvi driver? [snip] > The sensible thing to do > is to have the dvi driver handle this part of the interface, because the > dvi driver set-up is *supposed* to be system-dependent. > >Agreed. But that still doesn't address the question of why yet another layer >of remapping is needed (VF). Can anyone who helped make this particular design decision explain it? As I see it (in my ignorance), the vf re-mapping is used because it's portable and works on all TeX systems. The extra re-mapping to 8r strikes me as more of a necessary evil, and is only put up with because you only need one single re-encoding vector file for each dvi driver, so it doesn't add too much to the mess of system-dependent files we've got anyway. > >Well, > >a more interesting question is why it reads the TFM at all, since the > >font has all the needed metrics in it. > > When you say `the font', what do you mean? (Thinks: the vf file `is' the > fount; each tfm file `is' the fount; the Type 1 printer fount file `is' the > fount.) > >To me its real simple: the fo(u)nt I suspect it would me more elegant if you used one spelling or the other; given that you're in the USA, I won't hold it against you if you use the deviant spelling. ;-) > is the thing that actually contains >the character programs. Hence a TFM file is not a font (despite nomenclature >used in the TeX book, neither is a VF file. What about pk files? By your definition, these aren't founts, which puts TeX users in the interesting postion of being able to produce printed output with no founts at all (by using tfm, vf, and pk files only). I think you could argue that vf files aren't founts, because nothing is deluded into thinking they are. > But you are right this >is one of the most confusion parts to most TeX users. Keep your fingers crossed - in a few months, you should be able to point people at a new bit of documentation at CTAN that'll explain this (assuming I don't get struck my a meteorite and you don't mind me stealing [1] your words) > >This has to do with DVIPS > >wanting to produce resolution-dependent output. It replaces the > >fonts metrics with rounded versions derived from the TFM file. > > I see (I think). I take it that DVIPS does the rounding? > >Yes, in order to achieve (claimed) better spacing at a particular resolution, >at the cost of worse spacing at all other resolutions... I see - thanks. Rowland. [1] Lesser artists borrow; greater artists steal. 1-Dec-1997 8:42:29-GMT,1805;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA25325 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 01:37:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23563 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:35:48 GMT Received: from screavie.elsevier.co.uk by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:29:22 +0000 Received: from lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.192.141]) by screavie.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA22821; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:29:08 GMT Received: (from srahtz@localhost) by lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA04969; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:36:33 GMT Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:36:33 GMT Message-Id: <199712010836.IAA04969@lurgmhor.elsevier.co.uk> From: Sebastian Rahtz To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? In-Reply-To: References: <199711280946.KAA26114@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> > 9e and 9t? I've not heard of these encodings. Could someone give me a > pointer to some information on them? I can't see anything obvious at CTAN. the `fontname' documentation is required preparation for this exam... > Maybe I'm being stupid, but I still don't see why vftovp reads two tfms and > a vf when re-creating a vpl. What is it that lives in a vpl file? i suggest you get one and read it. it does make things clearer, honest. sebastian 1-Dec-1997 10:06:18-GMT,1580;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA26877 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:02:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26617 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:00:25 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:53:52 +0000 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:21:16 +0000 Message-ID: <6692-Mon01Dec1997092116+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com Cc: bkph@ai.mit.edu, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? In-Reply-To: References: <199711290333.WAA14585@kauai.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 > The famous Sebastian Rahtz tells me that the dvi driver first looks for a > vf file with that name, and if it doesn't find one, then assumes its a real > fount. I am wrong, you know. cringe. dvips looks at psfonts.map first. personally, i think it should do what i said it did. its inconsistent, it that it searches for cmr10.vf if you use PK fonts, but not if you use TYpe1 fonts sebastian 1-Dec-1997 10:12:26-GMT,3431;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA27005 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 03:07:47 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28797; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:07:16 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id LAA29024; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:18:22 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:18:22 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712011018.LAA29024@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? In-Reply-To: <199711291905.OAA14874@kauai.ai.mit.edu> References: <199711291905.OAA14874@kauai.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Concernant « Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? », Berthold K.P. Horn écrit : « Agreed. But that still doesn't address the question of why yet another layer « of remapping is needed (VF). historically, afm2tfm was not able to produce ligfull & kernfull TFMs for reencoded fontes, VFS were mandatory. There has been an interim state of the art, where 8r fontes were made by a patched afm2tfm, could someone tell if afm2tfm is still able to do ligfull 8r TFMs or not? Now the remaining reason is obviously fontinst's ability of faking missing charachters. this heavily requires VF machinery, hence a base TFM from which building fakable chars. The point of 8r here is simply to have all charachters accessible (encoded) and to minimize problems for systems that do not support reencoding or `deviant' encodings (windows & textures were cited, if i recall?). OK this is useless in OT1, but as we already have a base font needed for T1, why multiply base (PS) (re)encodings? I know that Berthold prefers the `buy Y&Y font manipulation tools software' scheme which in my opinion is not a bad idea if you have some money to spare, and like manipulating fontes. What is the real discussion underlying this? it's not tex related indeed. It is true that what a program like fontinst can do on metrics, a program like y&y's can do on PFBs (using SEAC?). Let's talk of some T1 charachter missing in the `standard glyph set' like Abreve in Palatino-Roman. And imagine you're talking a language that requires that one. If you use some external program to draw figures, and you (of course) want the words in the figure to be set in the same fonte as the ones in your text, (and of course the names in your diagrams require the letter Abreve...) you need that this letter be _real_ so you have to modify your fonte. By chance, this is not needed with TeX thanks to VFs! Remember that Palatino is resident, and of course not editable: if you do the faking with VFs you can share your PS files with anybody, and they will print on any PS device: no need to even buy palatino's PFB to alter it! for writing on figures, you still have the psfrag or 0-surface picture approach... Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 1-Dec-1997 11:26:05-GMT,1208;000000000001 Received: from cs.umb.edu (daemon@cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA28395 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 04:26:03 -0700 (MST) Received: by cs.umb.edu id AA21384 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for beebe@science.utah.edu); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:24:26 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:11:10 +0000 Message-Id: <5180-Mon01Dec1997101110+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: peb@mppmu.mpg.de Cc: infovore@xs4all.nl, tex-pretest@cs.umb.edu Subject: Re: --ini and the name of a dump. In-Reply-To: References: <87d8jimnxo.fsf@xs4all.nl> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 Sender: owner-tex-pretest@cs.umb.edu Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: tex-pretest@cs.umb.edu > > It is certainly possible to restrict overriding the input file name to > > the use of the --fmt switch. > > i think its a *good* idea. i think its entirely reasonable to be able to override the default output name sebastian 1-Dec-1997 11:33:34-GMT,2409;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA28420 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 04:28:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00431 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:27:08 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:20:24 +0000 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:24:54 +0000 Message-ID: <9174-Mon01Dec1997102454+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: ats@acm.org, rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? In-Reply-To: <199711302048.PAA15289@kauai.ai.mit.edu> References: <199711302048.PAA15289@kauai.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 Berthold K. P. Horn writes: > isn't what we seem to be talking about here, which is straight-forward > use of text fonts in LaTeX 2e. My point is that in order to get the > rarely used fancy features we seem to force complexity in the trivial > case. I have nothing against doing the fancy stuff, just don't like > the idea of doing it at the expense of making ordinary things complex > for the average users. > A `simple' case is the use of expert fonts, when you want some characters >From font A to appear in your apparent font, which is mainly drawn >From font B. Virtual fonts are good for this, all agreed? So we need to have virtual fonts around. The current `norm' in public domain TeXs (the xxx8r --> xxx7t/8t system) is there for compatibility with the CM/EC font family, no more no less. We dont have the luxury of being able to start with new encodings. Those who dont care about compatibility can just use 8r fonts on their own, with faster processing and less complexity/functionality . So I would argue that the fonts `we' provide cater for a wide variety of uses, and the system should stay the same. New users coming in with new fonts can just make 8r fonts if they want, using afm2tfm or Y&Y tools, and hey presto. Sebastian 1-Dec-1997 13:24:31-GMT,7738;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00200 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:16:07 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id IAA15227; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:16:04 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id IAA15520; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:16:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:16:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712011316.IAA15520@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com CC: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: (message from Rebecca and Rowland on Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:15:45 +0000) Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Hi: >That is, the psfonts.map has two entries to force reencoding of the `raw' >font to anything you want, no need to add additional reshuffling using VF. But that does mean you need different encoding vectors for each occurrance of a different encoding *and* each different dvi driver. The nice thing about the vf approach is that you need one 8r encoding vector for each dvi Not sure I see the difference. The DVI processor has to reencode the font in any case. Whether it reencodes to 8r or the encoding the user actually wants (LY1 say) doesn't make much difference (other than not needing VF in the latter case). Also, the encoding vector is a *constant* --- it does not depend on the platform. Keep in mind it completely *replaces* whatever encoding the font is set up for. You are perhaps thinking of `remapping' done by VF, which *does* have to take into account the target encoding. Maybe it helps to see what an encoding vector looks like conceptually: 32 space 33 exclam 34 quotedbl 35 numbersign 36 dollar 37 percent 38 ampersand .... It is *NOT* a mapping from one set of numbers in the range (0-255)to another ser of numbers in the range of (0-255). (Which is all VF can do). driver (rather than OT1, T1, and any others that are in use); and the OT1->8r and T1->8r mapping is handled by a single encoding vector (for each encoding) that works for all TeX installations. If everyone used dvips and the same PostScript founts, then this non-vf approach wouldn't have any drawbacks. But what of those of us who use TrueType founts on Macintoshes, without using dvips? Then you are in trouble in any case, since there is no way to reencode a TrueType font on the Mac (other than changing the actual font file). You are stuck with what is in Mac standard roman encoding. This means you won't have access to 21 of the `standard' 228 glyphs (like eth, thorn). (Unlike Windows NT where some software can reencode the TrueType vectors just like Type 1 and make even f-ligatures accessible in TT fonts). > Anyway, the actual encoding the real live Type 1 printer fount file uses > can be pretty much anything, and this varies according to computer. It >Well, for text fonts, the actual font file *always* says Adobe Standard >Encoding. Surely not? I was under the impression that the printer fount files on my computer say they use Macintosh text encoding. They certainly behave as if this were the case. The actual Type 1 font file *always* says /Encoding StandardEncoding def in the case of a text font. In fact some system software and printer drivers depend on this. The operating system reencodes the font to a platform specific encoding (remember we are now talking about systems with system level support for scalable fonts :-). Until 8r encoding was invented, PS founts were installed `raw', so this re-encoding step wasn't needed. As Alan Jeffrey puts it in fontinst.tex: >Finally, you should tell your {\tt dvi}-to-PostScript driver about the >fonts. This will depend on your driver, for example with {\tt dvips} >you should add the following lines to your {\tt psfonts.map} file: >\begin{verbatim} > ptmr0 Times-Roman > ptmri0 Times-Italic > ptmb0 Times-Bold > ptmbi0 Times-BoldItalic >\end{verbatim} In other words, Adobe standard encoding has been used, and re-encoding in the dvi driver isn't essential. Sigh. Which means you do not have 58 accented characters and about 30 other special characters! No hyphenation in `foreign' languages in TeX. Not sure what you are getting at here. Surely nobody used it that way (In prehistoric times, DVIPS had its own hard-wired unadvertized internal encoding which it applied to text fonts - so at that point in history you wouldn't mention an encoding vector in psfonts.map). > Which was my point. If you have to reencode >it anyway, why bother with an additional shuffling of character codes? Can you think of a way in which TeX documents could be made properly portable, and dvi drivers could be made easy to set up, given that we'd need dozens of different output encodings for each different dvi driver? See above. The encoding vector is not *different* for different drivers, since it does *not* depend on the underlying encoding of the text font (or whatever the operating system reencodes the text font to). The encoding vector *replaces* whatever was there. The original encoding might as well be a null vector for all it matters. For example, many people happily use LY1 (TeX 'n ANSI encoding) - even on Unix. All you need do is \usepackage[LY1]{fontenc} and no need for `text companion' fonts. These people all use the *same* encoding vector. (Modulo different drivers requiring it in slightly different formats: DVIPS wants an actual PostScript array, OzTeX wants a `charnumber glyphname' format). > The sensible thing to do > is to have the dvi driver handle this part of the interface, because the > dvi driver set-up is *supposed* to be system-dependent. > >Agreed. But that still doesn't address the question of why yet another layer >of remapping is needed (VF). Can anyone who helped make this particular design decision explain it? As I see it (in my ignorance), the vf re-mapping is used because it's portable and works on all TeX systems. Yes, all systems that use DVIPS :-) And even there it is not needed for this purpose. The extra re-mapping to 8r strikes me as more of a necessary evil, and is only put up with because you only need one single re-encoding vector file for each dvi driver, so it doesn't add too much to the mess of system-dependent files we've got anyway. No. As explained above, the encoding vector is always the same. It simply says what glyph you are going to get for each numeric character code. (The physical expression of the encoding vector may differ because different drivers may like to see it in different forms - but the mapping from number to glyph is constant). > is the thing that actually contains >the character programs. Hence a TFM file is not a font (despite nomenclature >used in the TeX book, neither is a VF file. What about pk files? By your definition, these aren't founts, which puts TeX users in the interesting postion of being able to produce printed output with no founts at all (by using tfm, vf, and pk files only). I OK, PK files contain the character shapes, so they are fonts. (Since I never use PK fonts, I simply forgot to specifically mention them). Similarly BDF files, FON files, F3 files Speedo files etc. etc. are fonts. But AFM files, TFM files, PFM files, etc. are not. Regards, Berthold. 1-Dec-1997 13:36:49-GMT,5071;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00552 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:32:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id IAA15829; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:32:21 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id IAA15540; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:32:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:32:19 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712011332.IAA15540@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr CC: rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <199712011018.LAA29024@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> (message from Thierry Bouche on Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:18:22 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Hi: Concernant « Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? », Berthold K.P. Horn écrit : « Agreed. But that still doesn't address the question of why yet another layer « of remapping is needed (VF). historically, afm2tfm was not able to produce ligfull & kernfull TFMs for reencoded fontes, VFS were mandatory. There has been an interim state of the art, where 8r fontes were made by a patched afm2tfm, could someone tell if afm2tfm is still able to do ligfull 8r TFMs or not? I believe you may have this back to front. AFM2TFM *was* able to produce proper TFM files complete with ligatures and kerning long ago. Unless I am mistaken, this capability was purposefully removed. Some of it was later reintroduced - as you say. Now the remaining reason is obviously fontinst's ability of faking missing charachters. this heavily requires VF machinery, hence a base TFM from which building fakable chars. The point of 8r here is simply to have all charachters accessible (encoded) and to minimize problems for systems that do not support reencoding or `deviant' encodings (windows & textures were cited, if i recall?). Actually, not all Windows systems need VF or support it. Also, while Textures now supports VF, it is not used or needed (except for cute examples and for MTMI in MathTime). So the widespread misuse of VF for simple text fonts should not be blamed on Mac or IBM PC compatibles :-) There was some confusion on this point at the TUG meeting in Santa Barbara - and I am responsible for being too tired to try and fight the rising tide there :-) Other people being much more persuasive... I know that Berthold prefers the `buy Y&Y font manipulation tools software' scheme which in my opinion is not a bad idea if you have some money to spare, and like manipulating fontes. Well, as you know, you *don't* need any of that for simple use of text fonts. And I know that *you* specifically do complex things that cannot be handled without VF or the FMP. What is the real discussion underlying this? it's not tex related indeed. It is true that what a program like fontinst can do on metrics, a program like y&y's can do on PFBs (using SEAC?). Let's talk I don't think that is what I was getting at. You don't need any of the tools in the FMP. Many people happily use Type 1 fonts on a variety of platforms without VF and lead happy lives (being able to hyphenate in `foreign' languages and all that). For this no complex tools are required. No changes to the font files. of some T1 charachter missing in the `standard glyph set' like Abreve in Palatino-Roman. And imagine you're talking a language that requires that one. Precisely, for *your* complex requirements you must have either VF or the FMP. If you use some external program to draw figures, and you (of course) want the words in the figure to be set in the same fonte as the ones in your text, (and of course the names in your diagrams require the letter Abreve...) you need that this letter be _real_ so you have to modify your fonte. By chance, this is not needed with TeX thanks to VFs! Remember that Palatino is resident, and of course not editable: if you do the faking with VFs you can share your PS files with anybody, and they will print on any PS device: no need to even buy palatino's PFB to alter it! for writing on figures, you still have the psfrag or 0-surface picture approach... I was not taking about something so complex. I acknowledged that for complex work VF has power that you can use. My point is that it is a mistake to force use of this complex and unneccessary machinery on a simple problem. Since you have to reencode the font in any case in the DVI processor, you can determine its layout fully. Why add another layer of rearranging of the character layout? Why kill a flea with a steam-press :-)? Regards, Berthold. P.S. I am sorry this has taken us so far away from the documentation for fontinst, but maybe it will clarify some font related issues as a side effect. 1-Dec-1997 13:44:19-GMT,1568;000000000001 Received: from hp9000.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de (hp9000.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de [134.106.40.3]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00597 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 06:34:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from mathematik.uni-oldenburg.de (mathematik.uni-oldenburg.de [134.106.104.2]) by hp9000.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de (8.8.8/8.8.8/21.11.97) with ESMTP id OAA16059 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:34:22 +0100 (MET) Received: from FB6/MAILQUEUE by mathematik.uni-oldenburg.de (Mercury 1.21); 1 Dec 97 14:34:22 MEZ-1MESZ Received: from MAILQUEUE by FB6 (Mercury 1.21); 1 Dec 97 14:34:01 MEZ-1MESZ From: "Peter Harmand" To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:33:54 MET-1 Subject: lw35nfss Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Message-ID: <3169CB7351@mathematik.uni-oldenburg.de> The faked slanted versions of the 8r-encoded metrics in lw35nfss.zip don't have ligatures and kernings. Since new Type1-in-TeX users may want to start with the standard 35, since the README in the psfonts directory claims "All fonts have ligatures and kerning (no ``raw'' fonts); therefore, even the *8r base fonts can be used for real typesetting" (however, nobody is doing this), and since we still have to wait a few month until we can point people at a new bit of documentation at CTAN, I think this should be corrected. The metrics in the adobe directory seem to be ok. (I only checked Times and Palatino -- sorry, I build my own metrics.) Peter 1-Dec-1997 14:23:35-GMT,1781;000000000001 Received: from pillar.elsevier.co.uk (root@pillar.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.222.35]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01448 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 07:17:00 -0700 (MST) Received: from snowdon.elsevier.co.uk (snowdon.elsevier.co.uk [193.131.197.164]) by pillar.elsevier.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09441 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:15:07 GMT Received: from SRAHTZ (actually host srahtz.elsevier.co.uk) by snowdon.elsevier.co.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:17:13 +0000 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:08:20 +0000 Message-ID: <4573-Mon01Dec1997140820+0000-s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk> From: s.rahtz@elsevier.co.uk (Sebastian Rahtz) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? In-Reply-To: <199712011332.IAA15540@kauai.ai.mit.edu> References: <199712011018.LAA29024@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199712011332.IAA15540@kauai.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.33 under Emacs 19.34.6 > Why kill a flea with a steam-press :-)? for myself, because i don't want to understand a flea killer as well as a steam-press. i want the steam press effect sometimes so yes, i use it to squash fleas. why not? i don't care much about speed (things are fine as they are), and i care more about my mental state that the use of excess computer energy. the flaw in my argument is that for strange historical reasons, my personal choices effect thousands of people --- i have an influence in the PSNFSS/dvips/LaTeX encoding world. Serves people right for following a false prophet. Sebastian 1-Dec-1997 15:28:00-GMT,2060;000000000001 Received: from ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.232.33]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02597 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:10:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr [193.54.241.5]) by ujf.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA29671; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:08:14 +0100 (MET) Received: (from bouche@localhost) by mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr (8.7.6/8.6.9) id QAA08804; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:17:48 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:17:48 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712011517.QAA08804@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> From: Thierry Bouche To: bkph@ai.mit.edu Cc: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? In-Reply-To: <199712011332.IAA15540@kauai.ai.mit.edu> References: <199712011018.LAA29024@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> <199712011332.IAA15540@kauai.ai.mit.edu> X-Mailer: VM 6.22 under 19.15 XEmacs Lucid Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Concernant « Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? », Berthold K.P. Horn écrit : « I was not taking about something so complex. we were talking of the current fontinst, it _does_ fake T1 glyphs that miss in t1 fonts. If we have this possibility, i don't see why we should avoid it: then we'd need a CTAN area for `national' users, one for `not too foreign' ones--happy with adobe glyphs--, and another one for `exotic users' whose language _requires_ faked glyphs (not mentionning the remaining ones that are simply `unfakable' and bound to print pages of black boxes...). « P.S. I am sorry this has taken us so far away from the documentation « for fontinst, but maybe it will clarify some font related issues « as a side effect. maybe _i_ should be sorry ;-) Thierry Bouche. ----- thierry.bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~bouche/ 1-Dec-1997 16:41:57-GMT,2998;000000000001 Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04568 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:35:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from kauai.ai.mit.edu (kauai.ai.mit.edu [128.52.54.48]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/AI1.15/ai.master.life:1.18) with ESMTP id LAA23469; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:34:48 -0500 (EST) Received: (from bkph@localhost) by kauai.ai.mit.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5AI/ai.client:1.5) id LAA15613; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:34:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 11:34:47 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199712011634.LAA15613@kauai.ai.mit.edu> From: "Berthold K.P. Horn" To: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr CC: Thierry.Bouche@ujf-grenoble.fr, rebecca@astrid.u-net.com, tex-fonts@math.utah.edu In-reply-to: <199712011517.QAA08804@mozart.ujf-grenoble.fr> (message from Thierry Bouche on Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:17:48 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Reply-to: bkph@ai.mit.edu Concernant « Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? », Berthold K.P. Horn écrit : « I was not taking about something so complex. we were talking of the current fontinst, it _does_ fake T1 glyphs that miss in t1 fonts. If we have this possibility, i don't see why we should avoid it: then we'd need a CTAN area for `national' users, one for `not too foreign' ones--happy with adobe glyphs--, and another one Oh, oh :-) you just pushed another one of my buttons. T1 gives up about 30 useful glyphs to add some more Eastern European Latin glyphs. This adds to the complexity since now you need `text companion' fonts to hold these displaced glyphs (i.e. 4 TFMs + 2 VF per font instead of a single TFM!). What is worse, since T1 doesn't cover *all* of the ISO Latin characters, it isn't as much use as one might hope. For example, one would have thought that the people in Poland in particularly would be happy that the glyphs they use are included in T1. Instead they seem to prefer their own encoding that also includes the glyphs used by their neighbors (such extra characters decorated with ogonek used in Lathvia). Ironic. for `exotic users' whose language _requires_ faked glyphs (not mentionning the remaining ones that are simply `unfakable' and bound to print pages of black boxes...). If we go too far away from the basic ISO Latin glyphs (minus Greek and Cyrillic, Hebrew, and Arabic) then we are talking special fonts in any case and T1 is not applicable. In any case, its typographically cleaner to use fonts that already have all the glyphs you need. For example, Lucida Latin fonts have everything to cover ISO Latin (and in NT you can actually access them all at the same time - but not in TeX of course). « P.S. I am sorry this has taken us so far away from the documentation « for fontinst, but maybe it will clarify some font related issues « as a side effect. maybe _i_ should be sorry ;-) :-) Regards, Berthold. 1-Dec-1997 19:19:02-GMT,2780;000000000001 Received: from relay-smtp.imaginet.net (alcor.imaginet.fr [194.51.83.171]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08814 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:14:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from imaginet.fr (zoltar.imaginet.fr [194.51.83.150]) by relay-smtp.imaginet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA04125; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:11:24 +0100 (MET) Received: from [195.68.10.81] (isdn2.lille.imaginet.fr [195.68.10.81]) by imaginet.fr (8.7.5/8.7.31) with SMTP id UAA17519; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 20:14:41 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199712011914.UAA17519@imaginet.fr> Subject: Re: What's the relationship between vfs and tfms? Date: Mon, 1 Dec 97 20:15:05 +0200 x-sender: yannis@mail.imaginet.fr x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Yannis Haralambous To: cc: , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >What is worse, since T1 doesn't cover *all* of the ISO Latin >characters, it isn't as much use as one might hope. For example, one >would have thought that the people in Poland in particularly would be >happy that the glyphs they use are included in T1. Instead they seem >to prefer their own encoding that also includes the glyphs used by >their neighbors (such extra characters decorated with ogonek used in >Lathvia). Ironic. Use Omega: not only you can have all of those but even typographic subtleties (umlaut accent higher or lower depending if you want to write French or German, etc. see our forthcoming paper for EuroTeX98). We have a Perl script that allows to create arbitrary 16-bit virtual fonts based on 8-bit fonts. >If we go too far away from the basic ISO Latin glyphs (minus Greek and >Cyrillic, Hebrew, and Arabic) then we are talking special fonts in any All that we have as well. +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Yannis Haralambous, Ph.D. yannis@pobox.com | | http://pobox.com/~yannis | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | 187, rue Nationale fax: +33 (0)3.20.40.28.64 | | 59800 Lille, France | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Visit the Omega home page!! http://www.ens.fr/omega | +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ ...pour distinguer l'exterieur d'un aquarium, mieux vaut n'etre pas poisson ...the ball I threw while playing in the park has never reached the ground 1-Dec-1997 20:43:57-GMT,5842;000000000001 Received: from cs.sfu.ca (cs.sfu.ca [142.58.111.1]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA11179 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 13:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (alonzo [199.60.3.17]) by cs.sfu.ca (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA26497 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Melissa O'Neill" Received: (from oneill@localhost) by alonzo.cs.sfu.ca (8.8.8/8.8.5) id MAA16898 for tex-fonts@math.utah.edu; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199712012040.MAA16898@alonzo.cs.sfu.ca> Subject: `.vf's, `.enc's, `.tfms', MMs, and problems with fontinst... To: tex-fonts@math.utah.edu Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 12:40:19 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have enjoyed hearing the discussion of the pros and cos using VFs purely for reencoding versus simply reencoding the font directly; certainly I know more about how things work than I did. Ultimately, I think Sebastian is right -- I use perl when I could use the simpler tools of grep, sed, or awk, despite its being a sledgehammer to crack a nut, both because it means I only have to deal with one tool, and because I know Perl `usually gets things right'. Similarly, one *can* use the `simpler' tool of afm2tfm (or Y&Y's proprietary tools) to make LY1, 8r, or even T1/TS1 fonts that don't use VFs. You can even do this with fontinst -- just throw away your VF file and replace lines like: phvr8r Helvetica " TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont " <8r.enc ... with lines like: phvr8t Helvetica " CorkEncoding ReEncodeFont"