2-Mar-2000 0:41:32-GMT,1722;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01875 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 17:41:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13025 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:41:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMJ3IQ5CPS0013LW@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 19:38:47 EST Received: from localhost (bnb@localhost) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12624 for ; Wed, 01 Mar 2000 19:38:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 19:38:19 -0500 (EST) From: Barbara Beeton Subject: Spaces, periods for \input file names To: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this message, sent late last year, didn't get distributed to the whole list. i only just noticed it while tidying up the archives. -------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:21:51 -0500 (EST) From: Richard J. Kinch To: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Subject: Spaces, periods for \input file names Is there any consensus about permitting spaces and/or (multiple) periods in \input file names? There was a thread in 1998 in comp.text.tex on this; the strongest opinion seemed to be "not a good idea, unwelcome semantics." This limitation of TeX is (needlessly?) confusing to naive Windows users. Richard J. Kinch http://truetex.com 2-Mar-2000 12:04:20-GMT,2454;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16128 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 05:04:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03602 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 07:04:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMJRFWGRHS0000W4@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 07:03:26 EST Received: from vms.rhbnc.ac.uk (alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.201.113]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA03237 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 07:03:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:02:57 +0000 (GMT) From: "Philip Taylor (RHBNC) " Subject: RE: Spaces, periods for \input file names To: bnb@ams.org Cc: TEX-IMPLEMENTORS@ams.org, CHAA006@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Reply-to: P.Taylor@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Message-id: <000302120257.1ce15@mail.rhbnc.ac.uk> >> Is there any consensus about permitting spaces and/or (multiple) periods in >> \input file names? There was a thread in 1998 in comp.text.tex on this; the >> strongest opinion seemed to be "not a good idea, unwelcome semantics." This >> limitation of TeX is (needlessly?) confusing to naive Windows users. Richard J. Kinch http://truetex.com Embedded spaces are essentially ruled out by p.278 : "A sequence of six or fewer letters or digits followed by a space should be a file name that works in essentially the same way on all installations of TeX". Otoh, I can find nothing that rules out multiple periods. Since Win-32 permits both, some work-around would seem to be required, but what? A naive suggestion would be to disallow spaces in explicit filenames, but permit them if concealed within macros or token registers, as in \input foo bar % inputs foo.tex, typesets "bar" \def \foo {foo bar} \input \foo % inputs foo bar.tex \toks 0 = {foo bar} \input \the \toks 0 % inputs foo bar.tex but this would require \input to behave in a manner quite unlike any other control sequence, which is (IMHO) even less desirable than excluding access to the full range of Win-32 filenames. For the moment at least, I cannot see a robust solution. Philip Taylor, RHBNC. 2-Mar-2000 13:45:04-GMT,3267;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18199 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:45:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08575 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:45:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMJUYOU7BK00017U@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:44:07 EST Received: (from mjd@localhost) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08283; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:43:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 08:43:53 -0500 From: Michael John Downes Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names In-reply-to: Barbara Beeton's message of Wed, 01 Mar 2000 19:38:19 -0500 (EST) To: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Lines: 45 References: > From: Richard J. Kinch > Subject: Spaces, periods for \input file names > > Is there any consensus about permitting spaces and/or (multiple) periods in > \input file names? There was a thread in 1998 in comp.text.tex on this; the > strongest opinion seemed to be "not a good idea, unwelcome semantics." This > limitation of TeX is (needlessly?) confusing to naive Windows users. If you change the semantics of \input and \openin, any number of macro packages out there will fail, e.g. \newread\infile \def\filetest#1{% \openin\infile=#1 % This space would normally terminate the file name. \ifeof\infile % try to test for nonexistent file: WRONG ANSWER % if TeX has not yet finished looking for filename % characters ... \fi } It seems to me the only half-way viable strategy would be to take up e-tex and add new primitives to it that could be used instead of \input and \openin. They should take file name arguments enclosed in braces (i.e., normal arguments delimited by catcode-1 and catcode-2 characters). Then it would be possible in principle to have any characters whatsoever in the file name. Handling the command-line interaction could be tricky, but I claim that the right way to handle file names is to start by doing them in a way that is natural for TeX and then make the command-line interface adapt to this constraint. And there are only two natural ways of handling a file name in TeX: pass the file name as a normal argument in braces, or pass it as a control sequence name. While you're at it, it would be extremely useful to provide \filename, \fileextension and \filearea to give full information about the current file, like \jobname except that \filename would include the .tex or other extension, and the values would be updated whenever a new file is entered with \input. I don't think e-tex has these yet. This information is already there in TeX, it's only a matter of making it accessible (I think). \fileextension should probably be defined as "whatever would be dropped when deciding on the name of the log file, if this were the job name". 2-Mar-2000 14:03:12-GMT,2334;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18573 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 07:03:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09972 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:03:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMJVLEEGQ80001AK@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:02:23 EST Received: from alpha.ntp.springer.de (alpha.ntp.springer.de [192.129.24.9]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09679 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:02:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE by ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE (PMDF V5.2-32 #35169) id <01JMK7OCSI9200035W@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> for tex-implementors@ams.org; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 15:01:25 +0100 (MEZ) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 15:01:25 +0100 (MEZ) From: Joerg Knappen Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names To: P.Taylor@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Cc: nts-l@relay.urz.uni-heidelberg.de, tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <01JMK7OCSI9400035W@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> X-VMS-To: IN%"P.Taylor@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk" X-VMS-Cc: IN%"nts-l@listserv.urz.uni-heidelberg.de",IN%"tex-implementors@ams.org" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Spaces in file names are indeed strange animals. Since the TeX primitive \input has an argument delimited by a space, the argument cannot easily include a litteral space. A radical way out would be an extension to TeX: Two new catcodes for quotes (expanding and non-expanding quotes, modelled after perl or UNIX shells). Say, catcode 17 for non-expanding quotes and 18 for expanding quotes. To quote the quote-character, it is doublicated. Inside expanding quotes, macro expansion takes place (so you can use \jobname inside expanding quotes to write to "file with spaces.aux". --J"org Knappen (Who doesn't know how hard such kind of extension may be to implement to e-TeX) P.S. Macintoshes have filenames with spaces for ages, how do Macintosh TeX implementations treat this problem. 2-Mar-2000 14:20:25-GMT,3479;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18975 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 07:20:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11757 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:20:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMJW7SY0I80001DE@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:19:39 EST Received: from vms.rhbnc.ac.uk (alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.201.113]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11428 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:19:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:19:18 +0000 (GMT) From: "Philip Taylor (RHBNC) " Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names To: mjd@ams.org Cc: TEX-IMPLEMENTORS@ams.org, CHAA006@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Reply-to: P.Taylor@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Message-id: <000302141918.1ce15@mail.rhbnc.ac.uk> >> If you change the semantics of \input and \openin, any number of macro >> packages out there will fail, e.g. >> >> \newread\infile >> >> \def\filetest#1{% >> \openin\infile=#1 % This space would normally terminate the file name. >> \ifeof\infile % try to test for nonexistent file: WRONG ANSWER >> % if TeX has not yet finished looking for filename >> % characters >> ... >> \fi >> } I don't think that's a sound argument, in that it should be phrased "any number of badly written macro packages". A more robust package would surely use \relax, as in \openin\infile=#1\relax % This \relax will always terminate the file name. >> It seems to me the only half-way viable strategy would be to take up >> e-tex and add new primitives to it that could be used instead of \input >> and \openin. They should take file name arguments enclosed in braces >> (i.e., normal arguments delimited by catcode-1 and catcode-2 >> characters). Then it would be possible in principle to have any >> characters whatsoever in the file name. Handling the command-line >> interaction could be tricky, but I claim that the right way to handle >> file names is to start by doing them in a way that is natural for TeX >> and then make the command-line interface adapt to this constraint. And >> there are only two natural ways of handling a file name in TeX: pass the >> file name as a normal argument in braces, or pass it as a control >> sequence name. All of this latter part I strongly support. >> While you're at it, it would be extremely useful to provide \filename, >> \fileextension and \filearea to give full information about the current >> file, like \jobname except that \filename would include the .tex or >> other extension, and the values would be updated whenever a new file is >> entered with \input. I don't think e-tex has these yet. This information >> is already there in TeX, it's only a matter of making it accessible (I >> think). That one has certainly been considered, and Peter can probably give a good resume of what was discussed and agreed. >> \fileextension should probably be defined as "whatever would be dropped >> when deciding on the name of the log file, if this were the job name". Ah, Humpty Dumpty semantics :-) 2-Mar-2000 15:19:24-GMT,2066;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20465 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:19:23 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15489 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:19:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMJY9JLSE80001PM@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:18:20 EST Received: (from mjd@localhost) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15156; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:17:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:17:58 -0500 From: Michael John Downes Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names In-reply-to: "Philip Taylor's message of Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:19:18 GMT To: P.Taylor@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Cc: TEX-IMPLEMENTORS@ams.org, CHAA006@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: X-Mailer: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Lines: 24 References: <000302141918.1ce15@mail.rhbnc.ac.uk> [I had written:] > >> If you change the semantics of \input and \openin, any number of macro > >> packages out there will fail, e.g. "Philip Taylor (RHBNC) " writes: > I don't think that's a sound argument, in that it should > be phrased "any number of badly written > macro packages". Such as plain.tex? Look at how it inputs hyphen.tex :-) > A more robust package would surely use > \relax, as in > > \openin\infile=#1\relax % This \relax will always terminate the file name. If one considers The TeXbook to be the canonical reference on how to use \input, \openin, \openout then I don't think package writers can be faulted for any reliance on space termination that may be present in their code, since that is what is shown in all the examples in the TeXbook. (In the lone exceptional case, the file name is terminated by \end, not \relax.) 2-Mar-2000 15:56:26-GMT,2760;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21619 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 08:56:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18330 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:56:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMJZJO88740001VI@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:55:30 EST Received: from math.feld.cvut.cz (newton.feld.cvut.cz [147.32.244.10]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18024 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:55:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (olsak@localhost) by math.feld.cvut.cz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA03228 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 16:54:51 +0100 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 16:54:51 +0100 (MET) From: Petr Olsak Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names In-reply-to: X-Sender: olsak@newton.feld.cvut.cz To: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > From: Richard J. Kinch > To: tex-implementors-request@ams.org > Subject: Spaces, periods for \input file names > > Is there any consensus about permitting spaces and/or (multiple) periods in > \input file names? There was a thread in 1998 in comp.text.tex on this; the > strongest opinion seemed to be "not a good idea, unwelcome semantics." This > limitation of TeX is (needlessly?) confusing to naive Windows users. I my opinion, the space (ASCII32 independent on catcode) is defined as file-name sepataror in TeX by Knuth and we can do nothing. More interesting is the second "multi-periods" problem. This is not defined in TeXbook and in tex.web it is declared as platform-dependent. The consequence is, that there is the different behavior on various TeX impelementation. This is a bad situation. For example, compare the two commonly used implemntation: emTeX (for DOS and OS/2) and web2c. Assume, we have the file "foo" (without any period) in current direcory. Then \input foo finds the file "foo" in web2c but not in emTeX (because foo.tex is missing). On the other hand, the \input foo. (the period is written here) searchs the file "foo" in emTeX but not in web2c (because the files "foo." and "foo..tex" are missing). I mean that we need the unique algorithm for periods in file names used in all TeX implementations. Petr Olsak 2-Mar-2000 16:52:40-GMT,2717;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23301 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 09:52:38 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22206 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:52:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMK1IFIH4G00026H@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:51:47 EST Received: from sprouts.arbortext.com ([198.108.59.202]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21909; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:51:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:49:10 -0500 From: Andrew Dobrowolski Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names To: Barbara Beeton , tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <006401bf8467$3bd7a770$1c061bac@arbortext.com> Organization: Arbortext MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 References: X-Priority: 3 Another option would be to modify e-tex to terminate the \input command based on a token's catcode, not character number. Now if tex scans a token with character number 32 it will terminate the command. Change the input command to terminate on catcode 10. Then a simple macro, say \filename, could be written to replace spaces in a string with catcode 12 spaces. The following should then work: \input\filename{your file name goes here} Andrew ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara Beeton To: Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 7:38 PM Subject: Spaces, periods for \input file names > this message, sent late last year, didn't get distributed to the > whole list. i only just noticed it while tidying up the archives. > > -------------------- > > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 15:21:51 -0500 (EST) > From: Richard J. Kinch > To: tex-implementors-request@ams.org > Subject: Spaces, periods for \input file names > > Is there any consensus about permitting spaces and/or (multiple) periods in > \input file names? There was a thread in 1998 in comp.text.tex on this; the > strongest opinion seemed to be "not a good idea, unwelcome semantics." This > limitation of TeX is (needlessly?) confusing to naive Windows users. > > Richard J. Kinch > http://truetex.com > > > > 2-Mar-2000 17:33:35-GMT,2182;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24448 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:33:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24625 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:33:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMK2Y773N40002AH@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:32:44 EST Received: from wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk (mta1.cl.cam.ac.uk [128.232.0.15]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24339 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:32:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from dorceus.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.1.34] helo=cl.cam.ac.uk ident=rf) by wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.092 #1) id 12QZST-0004mO-00; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 17:32:17 +0000 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 17:32:16 +0000 From: Robin Fairbairns Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names In-reply-to: "Your message of Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:49:10 EST." <006401bf8467$3bd7a770$1c061bac@arbortext.com> To: Andrew Dobrowolski Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: andrew dobrowolski writes: > Another option would be to modify e-tex to terminate the \input command based on a > token's catcode, not character number. Now if tex scans a token with character > number 32 it will terminate the command. Change the input command to terminate on > catcode 10. Then a simple macro, say \filename, could be written to replace spaces > in a string with catcode 12 spaces. The following should then work: > > \input\filename{your file name goes here} however, afaict, this isn't allowable under the rules for system dependencies. i would rather `do the job properly' as michael downes suggests, rather than invent such a piece of trickery as you suggest, or drop insignificant applications like plain tex and latex on the floor (as philip taylor suggests). robin 2-Mar-2000 17:35:32-GMT,1679;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24502 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:35:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25155 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:35:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMK30NSFV40002AQ@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:34:43 EST Received: from vms.rhbnc.ac.uk (alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.201.113]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA24772 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:34:30 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 17:16:40 +0000 (GMT) From: "Philip Taylor (RHBNC) " Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names To: aed@arbortext.com Cc: TEX-IMPLEMENTORS@ams.org, CHAA006@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Reply-to: P.Taylor@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Message-id: <000302171640.272f4@mail.rhbnc.ac.uk> >> Another option would be to modify e-tex to terminate the \input command based on a >> token's catcode, not character number. Now if tex scans a token with character >> number 32 it will terminate the command. Change the input command to terminate on >> catcode 10. Then a simple macro, say \filename, could be written to replace spaces >> in a string with catcode 12 spaces. The following should then work: >> >> \input\filename{your file name goes here} That seems quite a nice idea, Andrew! ** Phil. 2-Mar-2000 17:53:28-GMT,2219;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25070 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:53:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26311 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:53:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMK3MOCGZ40002GO@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:52:30 EST Received: from alpha.sil.org (alpha.sil.org [208.145.80.7]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26005 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:52:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [208.145.80.49] (pmartin.ipub.sil.org [208.145.80.49]) by dallas.sil.org (PMDF V5.2-31 #40725) with ESMTP id <01JMK1GGSIG891XZJF@dallas.sil.org> for tex-implementors@ams.org; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:50:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:53:33 -0600 From: Jonathan Kew Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names To: Joerg Knappen Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <01JMK1GGTBE291XZJF@dallas.sil.org> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Content-type: text/plain; charset="" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Joerg Knappen wondered: > P.S. Macintoshes have filenames with spaces for ages, how do > Macintosh TeX implementations treat this problem. In TeXGX, an admittedly rather non-standard implementation on the Mac, I took a rather ad-hoc approach, and decided to allow file names to be quoted using either single or double quotes. Thus: \input file name with spaces would (attempt to) read "file.tex" and then typeset "name with spaces", but either of: \input "file name with spaces" \input 'file name with spaces' would read "file name with spaces.tex" (if available) or "file name with spaces". (Assuming normal \catcodes; if the quote characters are \active, it would be a different story, I suppose.) Jonathan Kew 2-Mar-2000 18:07:37-GMT,2597;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25716 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:07:35 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27816 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:07:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMK45AARBK0002JP@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:06:43 EST Received: from life.ai.mit.edu (life.ai.mit.edu [128.52.32.80]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27510 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:06:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from MAURITIUS.tiac.net (maui [128.52.37.105]) by life.ai.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/AI2.13/ai.master.life:2.17) with ESMTP id NAA29358; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:05:49 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:06:23 -0500 From: Y&Y Support Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names In-reply-to: <01JMK1GGTBE291XZJF@dallas.sil.org> X-Sender: yandy@pop.tiac.net To: Jonathan Kew , Joerg Knappen Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <4.3.0.20000302130138.01e21380@pop.tiac.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ditto for Y&Y TeX (except only " is supported, not '), and the same on the command line --- unless you use the -K (Knuth) command line flag which turns of all such non-Knuthian features. At 11:53 AM 3/2/2000 -0600, Jonathan Kew wrote: >Joerg Knappen wondered: > > > P.S. Macintoshes have filenames with spaces for ages, how do > > Macintosh TeX implementations treat this problem. > >In TeXGX, an admittedly rather non-standard implementation on the Mac, I >took a rather ad-hoc approach, and decided to allow file names to be quoted >using either single or double quotes. Thus: > > \input file name with spaces > >would (attempt to) read "file.tex" and then typeset "name with spaces", but >either of: > > \input "file name with spaces" > \input 'file name with spaces' > >would read "file name with spaces.tex" (if available) or "file name with >spaces". (Assuming normal \catcodes; if the quote characters are \active, it >would be a different story, I suppose.) > >Jonathan Kew -- Y&Y, Inc. Support mailto:support@YandY.com http://www.YandY.com (MT) 2-Mar-2000 18:19:58-GMT,2575;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26146 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:19:56 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29066 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:19:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMK4KO7SUO0002MJ@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:19:07 EST Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28770 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:18:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from default (mv.dialup.access.net [166.84.201.33]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B7921597E; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:18:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:16:18 -0500 From: "MicroPress Inc." Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names X-Sender: mv@popserver.panix.com To: Jonathan Kew Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <2.2.32.20000302181618.00bd0568@popserver.panix.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is essentially what we did in VTeX, except only double quotes are allowed. Same syntax is used in our Linux and Os/2 versions. Standard TeX or not, users really want a standard Windows app, and do use long file names (despite our warnings that this is non-portable). At 11:53 AM 3/2/00 -0600, you wrote: >Joerg Knappen wondered: > >> P.S. Macintoshes have filenames with spaces for ages, how do >> Macintosh TeX implementations treat this problem. > >In TeXGX, an admittedly rather non-standard implementation on the Mac, I >took a rather ad-hoc approach, and decided to allow file names to be quoted >using either single or double quotes. Thus: > > \input file name with spaces > >would (attempt to) read "file.tex" and then typeset "name with spaces", but >either of: > > \input "file name with spaces" > \input 'file name with spaces' > >would read "file name with spaces.tex" (if available) or "file name with >spaces". (Assuming normal \catcodes; if the quote characters are \active, it >would be a different story, I suppose.) > >Jonathan Kew > > Michael Vulis MicroPress mailto://support@micropress-inc.com http://www.micropress-inc.com 2-Mar-2000 18:30:18-GMT,1345;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26556 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:30:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29940 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:30:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMK4XGGQW00002OX@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:29:25 EST Received: from Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Xenon.Stanford.EDU [171.64.66.201]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29619 for ; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 13:29:12 -0500 (EST) Received: (from rokicki@localhost) by Xenon.Stanford.EDU (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA19938; Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:27:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 10:27:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Tomas G. Rokicki" Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names To: KNAPPEN@alpha.ntp.springer.de, jonathan_kew@sil.org, support@YandY.com Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <200003021827.KAA19938@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> That's funny and cute: a `Knuthian' option, which itself is, of course, non-Knuthian. I love it! -tom 3-Mar-2000 6:42:32-GMT,1992;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15604 for ; Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:42:29 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28604 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 01:42:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JMKUFG5T280004GC@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 01:39:45 EST Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28307 for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2000 01:39:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id RAA28206 for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:39:05 +1100 (EST) Received: from [210.15.192.246] (dialup-t2-246.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.246]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/NS) with ESMTP id RAA18759 for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:39:03 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:41:13 +1100 From: Andrew Trevorrow Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names In-reply-to: <01JMK7OCSI9400035W@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> X-Sender: akt@pop.netspace.net.au To: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" References: <01JMK7OCSI9400035W@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> > P.S. Macintoshes have filenames with spaces for ages, how do > Macintosh TeX implementations treat this problem. OzTeX doesn't allow them. It's been that way for over 10 years and I can't remember a single instance of anybody complaining or even questioning the limitation. Andrew 3-Mar-2000 12:52:02-GMT,2480;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22791 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 05:52:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09231 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 07:52:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from ams.org (SUN06.AMS.ORG) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JML7E4HXS00003J1@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 07:50:54 EST Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08968 for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:50:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [38.32.79.49] (helo=MAURITANIA) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 12QrXR-0001Tg-00; Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:50:38 -0500 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:49:50 -0500 From: Y&Y Support Line Subject: Re: Spaces, periods for \input file names In-reply-to: X-Sender: yandy@pop.tiac.net To: Andrew Trevorrow , tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <4.2.2.20000303074707.023091b0@pop.tiac.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed References: <01JMK7OCSI9400035W@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> <01JMK7OCSI9400035W@ALPHA.NTP.SPRINGER.DE> Hi: I should say that while Y&Y TeX has allowed file names with spaces for several years, we strongly discourage people from using them. This is both because of cross-platform compatability issues and because there are just so many things that break when you allow file names with spaces --- both in style files and in auxiliary stuff like simple batch files. We put this capability in because people asked for it, but don't encourage its use because we end up getting more (otherwise avoidable) technical support questions as a result... Regards, Berthold. At 05:41 PM 3/3/2000 +1100, Andrew Trevorrow wrote: > > P.S. Macintoshes have filenames with spaces for ages, how do > > Macintosh TeX implementations treat this problem. > >OzTeX doesn't allow them. It's been that way for over 10 years and >I can't remember a single instance of anybody complaining or even >questioning the limitation. > >Andrew Berthold Horn mailto:bkph@YandY.com (Co) 22-Jun-2000 14:42:42-GMT,2455;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08682 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:42:41 -0600 (MDT) From: CHAA006@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22369 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQWFP6HBS00001QO@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:41:43 EDT Received: from vms.rhbnc.ac.uk (alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk [134.219.201.113]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21793 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:41:17 +0100 Subject: Re: an xdvi question To: bnb@ams.org Cc: TEX-IMPLEMENTORS@ams.org, CHAA006@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Reply-to: P.Taylor@alpha1.rhbnc.ac.uk Message-id: <000622154117.12854@mail.rhbnc.ac.uk> >> but i'd like to respond to a couple of questions that have turned >> up consistently: >> >> why not give the path in the .tex file? ie >> >> \includegraphics{/piccies/345.eps} >> >> which presumably xdvi will follow >> >> of course this works, but it's not portable. the setup that i work >> under is quite different from the one at the tugboat production >> site. having to change directory names every time a file is passed >> back and forth is an invitation to error, never mind a time waster. But _not_ specifying the path is an even greater invitation to error, since your "Fig.~1.eps" and Mimi's "Fig.~1.eps" might be quite different if you both happen to have more than one "Fig.~1.eps" lurking on your system. I would (humbly) suggest that while _installation_ files might well be in different locations on different systems, two or more co-workers (or "cow-orkers", as I've always thought the American spelling was to be pronounced) working on the same _project_ should surely have a mirrored setup of the project files, else insanity and chaos will surely reign. Thus I would advocate the use of project-relative paths rather than absolute paths, but this would imply support for consistency of path syntax; TeX (or better, NTS!) should surely support the use of URL syntax as a _lingua franca_ for file specifications. ** Phil. 22-Jun-2000 14:46:36-GMT,2483;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08778 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22901 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQWFUBY1000001RG@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:45:50 EDT Received: from relay1.teleport.com (relay1.teleport.com [192.108.254.28]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22509 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 495 invoked by uid 5); Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:45:38 +0000 Received: from 208-25-52-21.stk.inreach.net(208.25.52.21), claiming to be "teleport.com" via SMTP by relay1.teleport.com, id smtpdAAA0xRHJt; Thu Jun 22 07:45:28 2000 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:45:26 -0700 From: Arthur Ogawa Subject: Re: an xdvi question To: tex-implementors@ams.org Cc: mimi@csit.fsu.edu, vojta@math.berkeley.edu Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <39522682.4959A7F@teleport.com> Organization: TeX Consultants MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; U; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en References: <14674.6318.239842.783443@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Sebastian Rahtz wrote: > BNB writes: > > and if it's not an existing feature, might it be something that's > > worthwhile asking be added? (who's working on xdvi?) > Paul Vojta Paul A Vojta One way of stating the requirement might be: to make xdvi another web2c-based application. That way kpathsea would automatically be incorporated. > PS not that I use xdvi; what did god give us PDF for? I find that using pdftex in conjunction with Acrobat Viewer is quite effective; perhaps this is the implication of Sebastian's semi-religious statement. I might add that because TUGboat is ultimately to be translated to PDF, this method is particularly appropriate because it moves the dependencies of PDF translation to the front of the production process. This is a Good Thing (TM Sebastian Rahtz), because it forces one to confront any related problems early on. Art 22-Jun-2000 14:50:02-GMT,2496;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08848 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23349 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:49:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQWFYJMDCW0001S5@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:49:14 EDT Received: from wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk (mta1.cl.cam.ac.uk [128.232.0.15]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23034; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:49:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pallas.cl.cam.ac.uk ([128.232.8.88] helo=cl.cam.ac.uk ident=rf) by wisbech.cl.cam.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.092 #1) id 1358Hr-0006iG-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:48:59 +0100 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:48:59 +0100 From: Robin Fairbairns Subject: Re: an xdvi question In-reply-to: "Your message of Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:41:07 BST." <14674.9603.363352.437932@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> To: Sebastian Rahtz Cc: bnb@ams.org, tex-implementors@ams.org, mimi@csit.fsu.edu Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: > > i don't believe it's realistic to assume that the sites for everyone > > on the production team will always be identical. > > Now there I must agree to differ. I cannot see any real reason why > all involved should not agree on directory conventions. the paths are > only relative, after all fwiw, my tugboat production directory tree is pretty much identical to mimi's, except it starts at ~/tex/tug/tugboat/ rather than ~mimi/ i agree with seb: apart from the aparent randomness with which mimi guides her life, there's little to stop us all having trees that are (relatively) the same. > > - the ability to keep one article and everything that goes with it > > safely quarantined in its own area > keep all the pictures in relative subdirectories > > > pdf is great. but it's not yet supported on dec alphas > > nor ever will be, I imagine there's acrobat reader for current releases of tru64 unix, and you _can_ run tru64 on dec-supplied boxes even though the os now belongs to compaq. afaict, the only true distiller, as far as adozeby are concerned, is that for windozen't. r 22-Jun-2000 14:51:16-GMT,2412;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08898 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23712 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQWG11MWDS0001SI@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:50:28 EDT Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail3.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.180]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23396 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from heraldgate2.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.50] helo=frontend2.herald.ox.ac.uk ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 1358Ix-0005vK-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:50:07 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17]) by frontend2.herald.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1358Ix-00024N-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:50:07 +0100 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:50:08 +0100 (BST) From: Sebastian Rahtz Subject: Re: an xdvi question In-reply-to: <39522682.4959A7F@teleport.com> To: ogawa@teleport.com Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org, mimi@csit.fsu.edu, vojta@math.berkeley.edu Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <14674.10144.661505.340316@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 10) "Capitol Reef" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <14674.6318.239842.783443@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> <39522682.4959A7F@teleport.com> Arthur Ogawa writes: > > One way of stating the requirement might be: to make xdvi another > web2c-based application. That way kpathsea would automatically be > incorporated. have you not noticed xdvik, Art... > I might add that because TUGboat is ultimately to be translated to PDF, > this method is particularly appropriate because it moves the > dependencies of PDF translation to the front of the production process. > This is a Good Thing (TM Sebastian Rahtz), because it forces one to > confront any related problems early on. > right Sebastian 22-Jun-2000 15:00:17-GMT,2036;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09087 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:00:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24485 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQWGC9L2A80001TP@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:59:29 EDT Received: from regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de [130.75.26.7]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24166; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from te@localhost) by regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de (8.10.1/8.10.1) id e5MExFB04700; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:59:15 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:59:15 +0200 (MET DST) From: Thomas Esser Subject: Re: an xdvi question To: bnb@ams.org, tex-implementors@ams.org Cc: mimi@csit.fsu.edu Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <200006221459.e5MExFB04700@regulus.informatik.uni-hannover.de> > as far as i can tell from the man file, there isn't any way to > specify a search path for the purpose of finding the inclusions. > can anybody say otherwise, and give instructions? xdvik (which is the version of xdvi that is used in teTeX and TeX Live) uses TEXINPUTS for included figures. In teTeX (and TeX Live), xdvi is a shell script which calls xdvi.bin, so you could even do some fancy tricks with setting TEXINPUTS there, e.g. with a line like test -n "$XDVIFIGS" && { TEXINPUTS=$XDVIFIGS; export TEXINPUTS; } Then, you can set XDVIFIGS for your figures (if you do not want to use TEXINPUTS for that). I am suprised about the pro/contra discussion about a feature which already exists... BTW, the maintainer of the "k" (= kpathsea) version is Nicolai Langfeldt Thomas 22-Jun-2000 14:42:32-GMT,2622;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08678 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:42:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22303 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQWFOU0PVK0001QJ@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:41:24 EDT Received: from oxmail.ox.ac.uk (oxmail1.ox.ac.uk [129.67.1.1]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21753; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from heraldgate2.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.50] helo=frontend2.herald.ox.ac.uk ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #3) id 1358AD-0004hw-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:41:05 +0100 Received: from spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.15.17]) by frontend2.herald.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 1358AE-0001xi-00; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:41:06 +0100 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:41:07 +0100 (BST) From: Sebastian Rahtz Subject: Re: an xdvi question In-reply-to: To: bnb@ams.org Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org, mimi@csit.fsu.edu Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <14674.9603.363352.437932@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 10) "Capitol Reef" XEmacs Lucid Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <14674.6318.239842.783443@spqr.oucs.ox.ac.uk> Barbara Beeton writes: > of course this works, but it's not portable. the setup that i work > under is quite different from the one at the tugboat production > site. having to change directory names every time a file is passed > back and forth is an invitation to error, never mind a time waster. > i don't believe it's realistic to assume that the sites for everyone > on the production team will always be identical. Now there I must agree to differ. I cannot see any real reason why all involved should not agree on directory conventions. the paths are only relative, after all > - the ability to keep one article and everything that goes with it > safely quarantined in its own area keep all the pictures in relative subdirectories > pdf is great. but it's not yet supported on dec alphas nor ever will be, I imagine Sebastian 22-Jun-2000 17:02:30-GMT,4718;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12175 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:02:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00528 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:02:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQWKLGGJHC00023Z@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:01:26 EDT Received: from informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (linde.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de [129.69.218.81]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00236; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lagally@localhost) by informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (8.9.2/8.9.2) id TAA18369; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:01:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:01:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Klaus Lagally Subject: Re: an xdvi question In-reply-to: To: bnb@ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org, mimi@csit.fsu.edu Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <200006221701.TAA18369@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all, I just find this trail about a problem of file naming when combining several files, TeX or otherwise, into a document, and keeping the *logical* structure portable. I wrote a few macros along these and still think they could be relevant so I post them below. The idea is of separating the file names within TeX, which need not be the same as the system-wide name conventions according to the TeXbook, from the local file names by a set of configuration files. When transporting the sources elsewhere the configuration files might have to be adapted, but not the TeX sources. I tried to get this discussed an this list years ago, but there was no response then, to my chagrin. Please tell me what you think. Klaus -- Prof. Dr. Klaus Lagally | lagally@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de Institut fuer Informatik | Tel. +49-711-7816392 | Zeige mir deine Uhr, Breitwiesenstrasse 20-22 | FAX +49-711-7816370 | und ich sage dir, 70565 Stuttgart, GERMANY | (changed) | wie spaet es ist. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % filepath.tex % % macros for formal/actual filename binding, Plain version % Klaus Lagally % 28.11.1996 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % % This set of macros provides a mechanism to separate the concept % of in TeX (portable!) from the system dependent concept % of "path name" (actual location). % % In the TeX sources use only *formal file names* in \input, % bind them to the *actual paths* in a description file. % Call the main file "
.tex" from a driver file e.g., "
.drv" % that may be located *anywhere*, containing: % \input filepath.tex % \enterpath {
}{>} % % more \enterpath statements for files called via \input: % \enterpath {}{>} % \input
% \end % % Variant: local description files: % Define formal files indirectly: % \enterpath {}{.par>} % where contains: % \enterpath {}{>} % more \enterpath statements for files called via \input % \input % \endinput % %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % Add file name definitions by % \enterpath {}{} \def \enterpath #1#2{% #1 = formal name, #2 = actual pathname \filepath = {<#1>{#2}}\begingroup \edef \x {\endgroup \filetab = {\the\filepath \the\filetab }}\x } % Default for missing name definitions: actual := formal %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% \newtoks \filetab \filetab = {} \newtoks \filepath \filepath = {} \newtoks \filestack \filestack = {{}} \let \oldinput \input \let \lookup \relax \let \thefile \relax \def \pushfiles {\begingroup \edef \x {\endgroup \filestack = {{\the\filetab }\the\filestack }}\x } \def \stripstack #1#2\ {\filetab = {#1}\filestack = {#2}} \def \popfiles {\expandafter \stripstack \the\filestack \ } \def \input #1 {% new version \pushfiles \begingroup \def \lookup ##1<#1>##2##3\ {\def \thefile {##2 }}% \expandafter \lookup \the\filetab <#1>{#1}\ % \expandafter \endgroup \expandafter \oldinput \thefile \popfiles } %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% \endinput 22-Jun-2000 19:19:25-GMT,3547;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01052 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06619 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:19:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQWPDHXA1C0002GI@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:18:34 EDT Received: from fox.mit.edu (FOX.MIT.EDU [18.247.0.254]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06346; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:18:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (straker@localhost) by fox.mit.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA03166; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:18:36 -0400 (EDT envelope-from straker@fox.mit.edu) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:18:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel Richard G." Subject: Re: an xdvi question In-reply-to: To: Barbara Beeton Cc: tex-implementors@ams.org Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Reply-to: "Daniel Richard G." Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just a small follow-up to a point brought up earlier, mildly offtopic... On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Barbara Beeton wrote: > sebastian again > PS not that I use xdvi; what did god give us PDF for? > > pdf is great. but it's not yet supported on dec alphas, which is > what i happen to be running on, and shifting a file to somewhere > either for viewing or distilling (well, yes, sometime i *will* > start using pdftex directly, but it's not set up here yet) requires > at least two ftp steps. I trust everyone here has heard of xpdf? It's a PDF viewer of approximately the same size and functionality as xdvi, very nice little program. It's also free software; getting it to run on a DEC should be a cake walk. My experience with xpdf has been strictly with pdftex output, and I can certainly speak well of it in that respect. For me, its only fault is a font rendering quality that is inferior to that of xdvi-- in that letters aren't drawn quite as solidly, negatively impacting legibility. (Its only real shortcoming, however, is that it cannot render PDF files with embedded bitmap fonts. Type 3, if I recall...) I would definitely recommend this program, even if Acrobat were available. It uses a few orders of magnitude less memory, and (my personal favorite) it allows you to set the background color via X resources, so you don't have to read PDF files on a blindingly white screen. http://www.foolabs.com/xpdf/ --Straker //,, //,, //=================// ////// ////// //==================================\\ Straker Skunk / ////// ////// / Skunks are such wonderful / ////// ////// / creatures... soft, and cuddly, -- -- -- -- -- --\ \\\\\\ \\\\\\ \ and if you annoy them they Daniel Richard G. \ \\\\\\ \\\\\\ \ make you stink like hell ========--====--==-\ \\\\\\ \\\\\\ \---------------=--==--====--======== //mit.edu/straker / ////// ////// / Furry|Course VI-3|MIT Class of 2001 //skunk.mit.edu / ////// ////// / 80% Beaver 90% Penguin 100% SKUNK!!! \\===============// ////// ////// //====================================// ''// ''// 23-Jun-2000 1:21:47-GMT,2637;000000000001 Return-Path: Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org [130.44.1.6]) by csc-sun.math.utah.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10194 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from axp14.ams.org (axp14.ams.org [130.44.1.14]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18430 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ams.org (sun06.ams.org) by AXP14.AMS.ORG (PMDF V5.1-12 #D3824) with ESMTP id <01JQX21RPFQO0002EC@AXP14.AMS.ORG> for Beebe@Math.Utah.edu; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:20:58 EDT Received: from math.berkeley.edu (gold.Math.Berkeley.EDU [169.229.58.61]) by ams.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18171; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:20:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from blue2.math.Berkeley.EDU (blue2.math.berkeley.edu [169.229.58.60]) by math.berkeley.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15597; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vojta@localhost) by blue2.math.Berkeley.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23451; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:21:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:21:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Vojta Subject: Re: an xdvi question To: bnb@ams.org, tex-implementors@ams.org Cc: mimi@csit.fsu.edu Errors-to: tex-implementors-request@ams.org Message-id: <200006230121.SAA23451@blue2.math.Berkeley.EDU> Now that I'm awake (I'm in Hong Kong at the moment, actually keeping normal hours for once...), I'd like to respond to some of the messages that have accumulated about xdvi. > Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:41:10 -0400 (EDT) > From: Barbara Beeton > Subject: an xdvi question > To: tex-implementors@ams.org > Cc: mimi@csit.fsu.edu > > xdvi used to handle only one file -- a .dvi -- and that could be > in only one location. however, the enhanced xdvi will also handle > inclusions (.eps files), and it's often desirable to have those > in a separate location from the .dvi file (or more than one ...). By ``separate location,'' subsequent e-mails suggest that you likely mean a subdirectory of the directory containing the .dvi file. Is this correct? If so, then I don't see what the problem is, as long as you use relative paths for the .eps files and run xdvi in the same directory as you ran TeX. If TeX can find the files when creating the .dvi file, xdvi should also be able to find them. If you run xdvi from a different directory, then you may have problems, depending on whether you are using xdvi or xdvik. When looking for files with relative paths, plain xdvi will look first in the directory containing the .dvi file. xdvik will not. --Paul Vojta, vojta@math.berkeley.edu